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Around SBN: Ryder Hesjedal Wins Giro d'Italia

Keith Law ranks the farm systems:

NL Central:

4. Cards - They've drafted very well in the past few years, which has to be heartening to Astros fans, as Houston just hired Jeff Luhnow, who oversaw the Cards' recent drafts, as GM. St. Louis also has done an excellent job of developing the players it's drafted. I really like how the Cards are set up to contend continuously during the next five years.

8. Pirates - The Pirates' top tier of prospects is very strong, but there's surprisingly little depth given how high they've drafted and how much they've spent on amateur talent.

19. Reds - I would have ranked the Reds several spots higher before the Mat Latos trade, probably top 10. Outside of Devin Mesoraco, every guy with high ceiling in this system played in low Class A or below in 2011, and they're all quite high risk to go with the high reward.

20. Cubs - An unfairly maligned system, in my opinion -- not a great system, but not a disastrous one. And I say that as someone who's relatively bearish on some of the Cubs' more famous prospects.

27. Astros - The Astros might have been last if they hadn't traded Hunter Pence or Michael Bourn in July. Even though neither haul was that great, the prospects represented a major infusion into a barren system.

Other notes:

1. Padres - Without Anthony Rizzo, they no longer have a top-25 prospect in their system, but in terms of total future value of players likely to play significant roles in the big leagues, they're ahead of everyone else. Some of these players, especially from the 2011 draft, will develop into stars. But there are so many prospects here with high floors, players who would be top-10 or top-five in other systems but are 11-20 here (such as Robbie Erlin or Edinson Rincon), that they are well-positioned to compete even with modest major league payrolls during the next five to six years. Fans who were upset at the sudden departures of GM Jed Hoyer and assistant GM Jason McLeod for the Cubs should find solace in the fact that the prospects they helped bring into the system (along with many other scouts and execs, including Chris Gwynn, now with Seattle, and Jaron Madison and Randy Smith, still in San Diego) remain in place.

30. White Sox - And they're not particularly close to No. 29, either. When you don't spend money in the draft, you're not going to fare well in anyone's organizational rankings. The new collective bargaining agreement, which clamps down on teams' ability to acquire premium talent in the draft through higher bonuses, was the result of a long-standing effort by White Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf, who wanted to force other teams to play by his rules.

4 months ago Tiny wrigley12 47 comments 0 recs  | 

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Not surprising

particularly his comment about the Reds’ high end talent being in low A or below could have basically been cut and pasted into the Cubs’ blurb.

"Stuff like this is why they should shut off the internet."

by Orval Overall on Dec 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST

by fsuapollo on Feb 8, 2012 3:44 PM CST reply actions  

Judging from his chats,

“relatively bearish” is an understatement of his views toward our top prospects….particularly szczur and jackson. Also, he defends an “unfairly maligned system” then chooses to rate us lower than most of his peers have.

Sounds like he’s just trying to appease Cubs fans with the explanation

by jpchi on Feb 8, 2012 3:52 PM CST reply actions  

That isn't really true.

Sickels also ranked the Cubs 20th. His other rankings were Cards 5th, Pirates 12th, Reds 21st (behind the Cubs) and the Astros 25th. Other than the Pirates they are very similar.

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2012/1/23/2728027/2012-baseball-farm-system-rankings-prospects

I know people here like to defend the farm but with few potential high impact players anywhere close to being ready, I can’t argue with 20th.

And of course Sickels also put the White Sox 30th.

John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?

by rlpete on Feb 8, 2012 4:08 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not particularly high on our farm system,

but things I’ve read have put it at around 15-16 citing low minors depth. I just think its odd to pseudo-defend it then give it a relatively low rating. Does anybody have it rated below 20?

by jpchi on Feb 8, 2012 4:52 PM CST up reply actions  

I had the Cubs around 19-21 in my rankings, so these seem about accurate.

I’m not sure if I’ve seen them below 20 or 21 yet, and I have seen them as high as 16, but I think that ranking is based on potential.

by bdlugz on Feb 8, 2012 7:48 PM CST up reply actions  

What difference is there really?

You can order any of the Cubs projects from 7 or so to 25 or so in any order without causing much of a stir.

Similarly, there isn’t much separation from the 14th ranked system and the 20th ranked system.

By this time next year the Cubs system could shoot up the rankings because most of their uncertain prospects breakout or they could drop because most of them falter. There is a lot of interesting prospects to me in the system so lets hope its more the former.

by boubucarow on Feb 8, 2012 9:32 PM CST up reply actions  

No need to apologize

I can see them being ranked around 20 just as easily as 15.

by boubucarow on Feb 9, 2012 10:30 AM CST up reply actions  

Agreed.

The difference between 15-23 is so minimal, you could make an argument for any of them in almost any order.

by bdlugz on Feb 9, 2012 1:38 PM CST up reply actions  

i wonder ....

how kenny williams has kept his job this long ?

by walterj on Feb 8, 2012 4:47 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

THIS IS A CUBS BLOG

PLEASE TAKE YOUR NON-CUBS CHICAGO BASEBALL TEAM DISCUSSION ELSEWHERE

Just wee-un.

by jesus christos on Feb 8, 2012 4:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Too late! We are at imminent risk of a...

DSC01645

"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach

by daver on Feb 8, 2012 5:06 PM CST up reply actions  

A BUNKER!!

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Cubs win....what a lucky break!!" ---Harry

by Hammer on Feb 8, 2012 5:45 PM CST up reply actions  

A Bunker!!!!

John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?

by rlpete on Feb 8, 2012 6:13 PM CST up reply actions  

And..

"Hey Hey, Holy mackerel, no doubt about it,!"

by scottsdalecubs on Feb 8, 2012 10:07 PM CST up reply actions  

oops - sorry

"Hey Hey, Holy mackerel, no doubt about it,!"

by scottsdalecubs on Feb 8, 2012 10:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Look at that. You took a mulligan and nailed it.

"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach

by daver on Feb 9, 2012 5:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Surprised about the Cardinals being ranked so high

outside of Miller and the 1B prospect they have who was really good last year, they don’t really have much at all and they were at the bottom of pretty much everyone’s list last year…….

by magicblue on Feb 8, 2012 6:43 PM CST reply actions  

Their 50/50s improved

we had Hayden Simpson.

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Feb 8, 2012 7:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Wait.. what?

They have 3 outstanding pitchers, one of which is a top 3 pitcher in the minors. They have a very solid OF and 2B prospect, and 13 prospects in total that are B- or better.

by bdlugz on Feb 8, 2012 7:50 PM CST up reply actions  

That doesn't change the fact that they weren't rated very high after last season by these very same people

so a lot of their guys must have taken big steps in the past year. Baseball America had the Cardinals system rated 24th in 2011 and 29th in 2010 and now they’ve jumped to 5th? Call me skeptical……

And that 1 top 3 pitcher you refer to appears to have some issues with alcohol, which raises some red flags to me.

by magicblue on Feb 8, 2012 10:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Carlos Martinez among others jumped a lot.

John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?

by rlpete on Feb 9, 2012 7:33 AM CST up reply actions  

STL

Carlos Martinez, Tyrell Jenkins, Kolten Wong, and Oscar Tavares are all fairly highly regarded prospects at this point. Add in there a couple guys like Trevor Rosenthal and Matt Adams…guys who had very good years last year…and you’ve got a pretty strong Top 10.

A Top 10 ranking for them seems very justified to me.

by Crash1207 on Feb 9, 2012 8:01 AM CST up reply actions  

dont forget

carlos martinez, he’s legit

follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com

by DartmouthCubsFan on Feb 9, 2012 10:35 AM CST up reply actions  

It's funny to me how one or two top prospects can seemingly impact the grade for a whole team's system.

He puts the Reds at 19, but says he would’ve put them in the top 10 before the Latos trade. So, one or two prospects moved the Reds at least 10 spots? Really? That’s how you grade an entire system? Based on one or two prospects?

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)

by SackMan on Feb 8, 2012 7:33 PM CST reply actions  

It's still silly to me.

For instance… you could have a team that’s been losing for years at the Major League level and has been drafting poorly. Yet, if they have the #1 pick in a year where there’s a Bryce Harper type of player, their whole system will be graded differently based on one player.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)

by SackMan on Feb 9, 2012 6:31 AM CST up reply actions  

One player won't but

in the case of the Reds you are talking about 3 players near the top of their prospect list.

John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?

by rlpete on Feb 9, 2012 7:36 AM CST up reply actions  

And when that one player projects to be a superstar...

It should make a big difference. You’re taking about a kid who might make the major leagues by 19 in Harper, he should be a difference maker in any farm system.

Systems are judged on a variety of different criteria: top prospects ceiling, top prospects floor, depth of the system, arms vs bats, etc. Losing 30% of your top 10 prospects, as the Reds did with the Latos trade, will severely alter your rankings in all of those things.

The thing to realize is, there may be a big gap between a system like the Blue Jays or Padres and the Cubs, but a lot of the systems from about 14-23 you can make an argument in any direction depending on what criteria you are using. These systems are pretty close most of the time, which is why losing 3 major players makes such a big difference. Also why one great draft can make a major difference.

by bdlugz on Feb 9, 2012 9:12 AM CST up reply actions  

And we should see in 2012

whether the Cubs draft in 2011 was as good as everyone is hoping. If it then the Cubs should move up significantly.

John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?

by rlpete on Feb 9, 2012 10:03 AM CST up reply actions  

And a good point regarding direction.

There are teams in the 20’s like the Cubs and Indians who could jump significantly as the season plays out and there are others in the 20’s like the Brewers that are likely going to be around the same position next year.

John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?

by rlpete on Feb 9, 2012 10:09 AM CST up reply actions  

...and the Sox

who will continue to only sign college guys.

Hi, Crawdad.

10-25-2011. Theo Epstein joins the Cubs. Now, the fun begins.

by timh815 on Feb 9, 2012 10:15 AM CST up reply actions  

Yep, it's all about the raw upside guys in low minors.

We’ve got those in spades right now, we just need them to perform.

by bdlugz on Feb 9, 2012 1:39 PM CST up reply actions  

These org rankings are terrible

Indians 29? I think he’s in his own there. There’s no consistency or sense to these at all.

by subtle on Feb 8, 2012 8:22 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

Sickels rates them at 27

so 29 isn’t outrageous. Sickels mentions that they could jump next season.

John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?

by rlpete on Feb 9, 2012 7:28 AM CST up reply actions  

It will be interesting to see where in two years it'll rate

Last year I think there was many days I enjoyed Josh’s recap more than Al’s. No disrespect Al.

The Stat Pack

by shoemile on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM CDT

by Madison Cub Fan on Feb 9, 2012 9:20 AM CST reply actions  

Well, it's comforting at least to see that Hoyer/McLeod are responsible for the #1 ranked system

Since they’ll be (have been) doing evaluations for us, that’s a pretty exciting result.

by Orval Overall on Feb 9, 2012 3:46 PM CST reply actions  

Abso-muthaflippin'-lutely.

"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach

by daver on Feb 9, 2012 5:29 PM CST up reply actions  

I keep reading that word

as mud-hat-flippin’, and I don’t know what that means. It sounds pretty awesome, though.

by CJK on Feb 10, 2012 9:39 AM CST up reply actions  

But the strategy they used just got a whole lot more difficult to execute

The ability to go over-slot for the hard-to-sign guys is really constrained under the new agreement.

by ClarkFan on Feb 10, 2012 8:19 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm not sure but

I don’t think the Padres did that much.

John Grabow - Who will pay you $4.8 million in 2012?

by rlpete on Feb 10, 2012 8:29 AM CST up reply actions  

They did a big part of it by trading Gonzalez and Latos...

That isn’t going to be something that they can do on the Cubs right now…

by bdlugz on Feb 10, 2012 8:59 AM CST up reply actions  

Please don't harsh our mellow.

"[The Cubs] have a very famous tradition in baseball, and it will be nice to be part of turning it around." ~ Jamie Quirk, Bench Coach

by daver on Feb 10, 2012 10:44 AM CST up reply actions  

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