Another Reason Why Lou Piniella Should Not Be Named Cubs Manager

by Al on Oct 11, 2006 9:13 AM CDT in News Comment 107 comments

Piniella, as Mariners manager in 2002 - copyright Cincinnati Enquirer

Piniella, batting for the Yankees in the 1978 World Series - copyright art.com

See that uniform number? That's Piniella's favorite, and, um, it's not available for a Cub. Oh, sure, he could dress like this:

Piniella as Reds manager in 1990, copyright Cincinnati Enquirer

But then, I don't want the base-throwing, either. Fun, but ultimately meaningless.

This is, of course, tongue-in-cheek. Piniella could wear any uniform number he wanted to. Let's just hope it's another team's uniform. Or a jacket & tie, working for Fox in 2007. (Man, is he awful on the air!) Just keep him out of a Cubs uniform. Wrong choice. Wrong choice. Wrong choice.

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Why

the dislike for Pinella? At least he'd give this team a swift kick in the ass, and not sit back and chew on a toothpick and let whatever go....

GET SORIANO!

by CubFaninCA on Oct 11, 2006 9:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

The team ...

... doesn't need "a kick in the ass".

It needs better players, and then it needs a manager who actually might construct good lineups, use relievers better, and use his bench better.

Lou Piniella is like an angry Dusty Baker. That's the LAST thing the Cubs need.

by Al on Oct 11, 2006 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Do you not...

think that Joe would be a task master?

I like Joe, but I see him being similar to Piniella.

he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Oct 11, 2006 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree.

Girardi is young enough that he could tailor his style to the team he has. He appeared to be a taskmaster in Florida -- but he had a very young team that perhaps NEEDED that, and responded to that.

I just don't want another sixtysomething recycled manager. Didn't work very well the last two times (Baylor & Baker).

by Al on Oct 11, 2006 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Your off your game today Al

Your line of reasoning is poor. So what your saying is that anyone who is older and has experience would not be a good manager. Someone should've told the Tigers how bad Jim Leyland was gonna be for them. I guess all we can do now is watch them crash and burn.

I understand if you don't think Piniella is the right fit. But it sounds more like your saying you just don't like him personally. The difference in Piniella and Dusty is that Dusty only really one once before coming to Chicago. Piniella has won many times in his history. He managed to get 70 wins with an abyssmal Tampa team in 2004 and could've improved them if Tampa would've spent more than 30 million in 2005. Sure he gets ejected too much, and Ozzie Guillen runs his mouth too much, and Joe Girardi mouths off to the owner. That has nothing to do with baseball.

Piniella is a good manager. Girardi looks like he will be good too. Either way this is a positive for the Cubs. It is foolish for any of us to pretend to know for certain which one will be more successful. But to just cast aside a proven winner because he is a little fiery is foolishness.

Kyle

by Kyle Turney on Oct 11, 2006 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well..

... I don't personally like Piniella's style, no.

I also think that the old, recycled manager theory doesn't work for the Cubs. Maybe the Tigers were in a different spot, and Leyland was right for them.

I simply think the Cubs need to go in a different direction, and yes, I don't think Piniella fits.

by Al on Oct 11, 2006 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

we need

better players, but the players we have sure look like they needed a swift kick in the ass. maybe if the new maanger will swiftly kick the players and hendry and the trib board in their respective asses, then the players will hustle more and make fewer stupid mistakes, the trib board will increase the payroll since they've increased revenues from the team while dropping payroll recently, and hendry will start doing a better job of using the money he's given.

by tomas21 on Oct 11, 2006 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know if they need butts kicked.

But under Dusty, the team took on his "I don't give a hoot" appraoch to mental errors and lapses. Dusty most certainly put his "fundamentals are B.S. if you are aggressive" stamp on this team--for the worse. The choke at the end of 2004, imo, was entirely Baker's fault as one example...

I don't think a butt-kicker is necessary to trun this approach around, per se. Just a manager who values it and who holds players accountable.

by DudeVf1 on Oct 11, 2006 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Do you think, Al ... or anybody ...

A)Rogers' article was a Tribune Co. trial balloon?

B)Piniella's sudden avaliability to the press is him lobbying to get a job--and that maybe the clubs interviewing him are not seriously considering him?

"P-A-L-A-T-I-N-E! Go, Pirates!"

by Littlerock Rynofan on Oct 11, 2006 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Answers...

... a) no.

b) absolutely.

by Al on Oct 11, 2006 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree.

Piniella removed his name "from the hat" of the Nats job. A person trying to make themselves more available doesn't do that. I think that tells us that he's certain he's going to get the Cubs job. He may end up being wrong, but I think he believes he's going to get the job. And now it's about getting Cubs fans to like him. Hendry already did. He didn't have to do anything to impress Hendry and still doesn't. Unless McDonough steps in, Piniella will be the Cubs manager. And honestly, it's not McDonough's place to step in. If Hendry is going to sink or swim with this hire then it should be up to him and only him. My guess is that McDonough will allow that knowing he's going to have to fire him at the end of the season if it doesn't work out.

by Maddog on Oct 11, 2006 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree

The naming of this manager is uber critical. While McDonough is playing the good general in applauding Hendry in public, he has a directive from the Tower. Improve the team and make the Cubs lovable again.

Hendry has two years left but, mark my words, he's on a short leash. McDonough already told us that Girardi was the man when he insisted we hire someone who gets it. He didn't say good manager or winner. he was very specific. Girardi is the only candidate who gets it.

Try explaining to the fans at the Convention why Girardi wasn't selected and Pinella or Bochy was. John may not have credentials as a baseball guy, but he does understand the fans. He was selected because he knows what the fans want to see.

This time it's personal.

Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Oct 11, 2006 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I really doubt Lou

will blame the billy goat for most the problems like Baker. The 06 team fell apart in May after the Lee injury when Baker started crying incessantly about "bad breaks." Yes, this team needs better lineup construction, but it needs a backbone too, not someone who gives nearly every bonehead play a free pass cause the team's curse,,, apparently...

GET SORIANO!

by CubFaninCA on Oct 11, 2006 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pinella..

is WAY too old school in his thought process and actions.

Throwing bases halfway across the infield during an arguement (and such) is not the way to get people's attention now days!

His philosophy is outdated and will not work with today's athletes to the extent that we need it to work in Chicago.

He is definitely and absolutely the WRONG choice for the Cubs!

If you think you've seen it all...just wait!

by CubFanSince1970 on Oct 11, 2006 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly how many times

has Piniella thrown bases during an argument?

His philosophy is most certainly outdated, but so is Brenly's and Girardi's. They're all the same. They're going to make all their decisions based on hunches and they all have the same likelihood of being right or wrong. If you want someone cheap, you go with Girardi. If you want someone who has been the most successful, you go with Piniella.

by Maddog on Oct 11, 2006 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maddog

you think Girardi won't likely be more open to new ideas? even though new ideas are foreign to Hendry? If Girardi is hired and weathers whatever storm is about to hit again the next couple years, he could be open and intelligent enough to embrace a more balanced philosophy of winning- stats/instincts. It's more likely than the older guys wouldn't you say? at least more probable?

by cashcowsquirtingsourmilk on Oct 11, 2006 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know.

In theory, that seems reasonable to expect, but I don't believe most people take the time to learn new things about stuff they believe they already know. First of all, it takes an admittance of doing things wrongly in the past to do this. Managers, from what I know of them, are not very good at this. Sure, some of them will tell you to put the blame all on them or that they screwed up, but they're more likely than not to make the same decision the next time the situation arises.

I'd say it's possible, but not probable. I'm not sure it's any more likely than, say, Piniella learning more about the game.

I think the point of this is that we shouldn't expect it to happen. I don't believe his age or his intelligence factor into the likelihood of him accepting and trying new ideas.

If we want a guy who can do this, and I definitely do, then we should hire one who is already more inclined to use stats than the guys we're interviewing.

by Maddog on Oct 11, 2006 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would rather hire

somebody who's inclined to use stats as well, but Hendry has nobody in mind, of course. I would like the Cubs to committ to a young manager like Girardi and let him adapt over time. While nobody should EXPECT Joe to do this, I still think it's MORE likely for him to change than a guy like Piniella. Besides, Joe's only had 1 year, maybe we don't know what he'd do with the cubs. I'd like to find out.

by cashcowsquirtingsourmilk on Oct 11, 2006 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's fair.

I certainly can't sit here and say that Piniella would do a better job because I just simply don't know. None of us really do. It's more likely than not that both of these guys will drive us up a wall by Year 3 of their tenure.

by Maddog on Oct 11, 2006 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

touche'

"All your statistics are going to tell you is what a guy has done. Somebody has got to make the decision on what the guy's going to do."

" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "

by aaronb on Oct 11, 2006 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gary Hughes?

by Maddog on Oct 11, 2006 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You are correct my friend

" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "

by aaronb on Oct 11, 2006 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

A personal note

Some years ago I went back to school to get a degree in education so I could teach. But mostly it was to enable me to coach. When I had the opportunity to get a head coaching position I was very very smart. After the first year I wasn't so smart after all. So I changed a number of things about the way I ran the team because I couldn't stand losing.

So when you claim managers don't adapt, I just don't but it. Some don't just as some business execs don't. But the smart and successful ones do. My aal time favorite coach was John Wooden. His teams were always winners because he adapted to the players he had. Baker never adapted.

Many baseball managers aren't particularly wise men. Girardi isn't that type man. He'll adapt and the players will love him. He's the only choice to manage next year. I really believe in my heart that he'll succeed.

Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Oct 11, 2006 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who needs a manager

who's gonna do the Hail Mary with second base? That kind of childishness is exactly what Wrigley Field doesn't need.

I don't care what kind of fire he lights under Ramirez' butt. Piniella--and that copyrighted temper--is an embarrassment.

"P-A-L-A-T-I-N-E! Go, Pirates!"

by Littlerock Rynofan on Oct 11, 2006 9:30 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Why is he the wrong choice?

I'm not sure I get all the anti-Lou sentiment on this site. He's a proven successful manager, he's shown he can handle major market media, and he's not afraid to get into player's kitchens, and oh right, he won a world series.

Pinella couyld have his choice of any opening here and he feels Chicago is the best one. And yet nobody wants him here.

I don't get it.

"I can't be held responsible for what I personally tell my goons to do...."- C. Montgomery Burns

by yahoodi on Oct 11, 2006 9:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Explained above.

n/t

by Al on Oct 11, 2006 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Manager Merry Go Round

Al is tired of old blood managers getting fired elsewhere and being handed a new job just because they're in the old managers club. Managers may be hired to be fired eventually but that doesn't mean that what didn't work somewhere else will work here.

It's time for new blood. Girardi should not have been fired. We should be ecstatic that he is available in the first place. He should have already been hired.

Pinella and Fergosi are two perfect examples of the old managers club. Bochy could be interesting. Then again, I thought Riggleman would be a good manager too....

by Kornchex on Oct 11, 2006 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Riggleman was alot better than

Baylor
Kimm
or Dusty

FWIW

" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "

by aaronb on Oct 11, 2006 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Riggs was one of the best managers the Cubs have had in a long time.

by VS on Oct 11, 2006 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Goodness..

You are kidding right? I guess he did manage to win 1 more game in his final season with the Cubs than Dusty did. Of course, he didn't have a chemically enhanced outfielder like Sosa..oops I meant Bonds.

by wicubfan on Oct 12, 2006 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No I'm not kidding

He was a decent manager. A great one compared to Baker and Baylor.

by VS on Oct 13, 2006 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Proven what??

He's proven he can win with a Reds line-up that just murdered everybody and a bull=pen that ended games in the 6th inning? Or did he prove it when he had a team with Randy Johnson, Ken Griffey, and Alex Rodriguez. Any manager would have won with those teams! I got the opportunity to watch Pinella down here in Tampa. He's Dusty Baker all over again. He insisted on playing old retreads over promising young players, even when contending was not a possibility. The 70 wins he "got" out of them were because of some serious young talent he finally let play. Pinella is not a good manager. He's just a good old boy who gets hired for his old school attitude. I'd like a little more fire in our manager, but it has to come with a clue about in-game strategy, handling a pitching staff, and a willingness to play the best players.

by Rotodaddy on Oct 11, 2006 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lou could always

wear a suit and fedora in the dugout a la Connie Mack. Agreed. Don't want him. To paraphrase the old Clinton campaign mantra: It's the players, stupid. When you give a bad team a kick in the ass it becomes a bad team with a sore ass.

by TR on Oct 11, 2006 9:33 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

lol

I don't want him either. That would make me cry.

Go Hawkeyes...Beat Indiana!!!

by sue369 on Oct 11, 2006 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Off-topic, but...

Lou could always
wear a suit and fedora in the dugout a la Connie Mack.

...I would love to see a manager bring back the Connie Mack look. Managers wearing the same uniform as the players is a little pretentious, IMO.

by VS on Oct 11, 2006 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

its

a little gross that they wear uniforms. why does it have to be a rule that if you walk on the field you have to wear a uniform. the managers aren't playing, they should wear a suit or nfl-wear. how come dick pole has to wear a uniform? he doesn't go on the field during the game. its just gross seeing old fat men with skin-tight unis and their big bellies hanging over.

by tomas21 on Oct 11, 2006 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Managers in Unis

Oh, I guess I always thought Tommy Lasorda looked spectacular waddling out to the mound in his finely tailord uniform.

by N Oakley on Oct 11, 2006 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This

is a pet peeve of mine for a while. A lot of managers look really stupid in a uniform, and there is no good reason why they wear them. It's just a holdover from the days when most managers were player/managers.

Coaches in no other sport wear the uniform. It's silly. And the whole "If you go on the field you have to wear the uniform" argument is also silly, because we let trainers on the field all the time and they aren't wearing uniforms.

I don't know that we have to require jackets and ties like the NBA or NHL. Those sports are played indoors. The "licensed gear" approach of the NFL is probably better. I think most managers could wear a team polo and a pair of slacks and look a lot better and it would sell more merchandise. I don't know why MLB doesn't get on the ball with this and end this silly tradition.

by Josh77 on Oct 11, 2006 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Even the umpires....

... who used to wear shirts & ties, now wear polos and slacks. Managers could do the same.

by Al on Oct 11, 2006 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Managers and Coaches in uniform.....

Just another one of many things that makes baseball unique from most other sports, just like the fact that there is no clock. Personally, I got sick of Rothschild in his damn pullover sweater.

"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Oct 11, 2006 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

14

Isn't that Pete Rose's number?

Bad karma.

she

by Sarah Hope on Oct 11, 2006 9:44 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Actually

14 is Ernie Bank's number - GREAT Karma!

by JFCubFan on Oct 11, 2006 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yabbut...

... it's retired!

by Al on Oct 11, 2006 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Piniella is a moron

He and Baker share the exact same baseball philosphy.

Also, he has no clue how to use stats. I'm not asking for a statistician as a manager, but he really doesn't even know what OPS and WHIP are!

by VS on Oct 11, 2006 9:44 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Is Leyland a moron too?

He's "old school" right?

GET SORIANO!

by CubFaninCA on Oct 11, 2006 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd take him over Baker and Piniella

but he makes his fair share of ridiculous decisions. Hell, Jones was one of the worst closers in the AL for most of the year, yet he stubbornly stuck with him. Batting Carlos Guillen 5th most of the season hurt the team.

He does take very good care of his pitching staff, though. Better than most.

by VS on Oct 11, 2006 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Leyland has adapted to his players

for example, he doesn't try to steal with this tiger team unless he knows they can make it. He would like to run, but he's cautious about it. Leyland is also having success because of the young pitching that has matured, much of which can be credited with Rodriguez behind the plate.

by cashcowsquirtingsourmilk on Oct 11, 2006 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe not

but at least he realizes that getting players on base is likely to lead to scoring runs.

by davidalanu on Oct 12, 2006 7:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

How do you figure that?

He consistently mocks OBP on the air and his teams were among the worst at getting on base from 03-05. The only times he was near the top was when he had talent (Mariners 00-02, Griffey & A-Rod in the 90s, Yankees in the 80s).

Piniella, like every other manager, will succeed if he has the right players. He wouldn't have them in Chicago.

by VS on Oct 12, 2006 7:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Personally

I'm in favor of Piniella as manager, with former Pirates skipper Lloyd McClenddon as first base coach. Then we would definitely win any manager/coach related temper tantrums that involved actually using the bases.

Of course, we probably wouldn't win as many games, but that's less important :)

When trouble arises there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that individual is crazy. - Dave Barry

by Jesse Guam on Oct 11, 2006 9:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Earl Weaver at 3B coach, Bowa as bench coach

by LuisSalazar on Oct 11, 2006 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

and

lee elia as the pr director

by tomas21 on Oct 11, 2006 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Would that require

bringing Farnsworth back?

Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Oct 11, 2006 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hands-on-instruction....

I'm not big on Pinella coming to the Cubs, but I did like something he said during last night's broadcast of the A's Tigers game.

He and Brenaman and Lyons (ugh) were discussing the Tigers coaching staff, which includes a very intense Andy Van Slyke and Lolyd Mclendon, and how that staff was intensely hands-on, instructing every day and hammering the team on fundamentals. They all agreed, and Pinella stated (to paraphrase).....

"In this day and age there are more staffs out there that do not preach the fundamentals and constantly instruct , but boy, if you've got a coaching staff that's gonna come out and teach, and work, and practice fundamentals intensely, as the Tigers do, then you're miles ahead of everyone else."

The insinuation being that most major league teams don't do this -- I thought that was pretty interesting.
Please, Jim Hendry, can the Cubs please have at least that as an advantage going into 2007? PLEASE

85% of the world's working and the other 15% come out here (to Wrigley). --Lee Elia

by southerncubbie on Oct 11, 2006 9:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

That might require

that the coaches aren't allowed to use the field for marketing practices with corporate clients before the games.

Practice isn't overrated despite what Dusty thought.

Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Oct 11, 2006 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thank you.

I'm glad someone else noticed that very conversation. I think it's the other way around, though. I would say the Cubs were at a disadvantage because most other coaching staffs DO teach fundamentals. The winning teams, at least.

"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Oct 11, 2006 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What does.....

An angrier version of Dusty Baker mean?

The fact that he gets angry makes him different from Baker right?

I seem to recall the Mariner teams having very good lineups, and I don't remember him having many bullpen problems in Seattle either.

Still, it looks like it's going to be him or Bochy. I think I'd rather have sweet lou.

"I can't be held responsible for what I personally tell my goons to do...."- C. Montgomery Burns

by yahoodi on Oct 11, 2006 9:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

The Mariner teams had good lineups...

... because they had good PLAYERS.

by Al on Oct 11, 2006 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

so by that rationale

You shouldn't give a flying fig who the manager is. Right? If they go out and get the right players you'd be happy if they just promote Mike Quade to manager?

"I can't be held responsible for what I personally tell my goons to do...."- C. Montgomery Burns

by yahoodi on Oct 11, 2006 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Then what happened to them when Lou left

Brett Boone, Ichiro, John Olerud, Edgar, the whole lot of them were still there when Lou left and they turned into losers. Many of them have passed into obscurity now. Remember Lou won biggest after A-Rod, Griffey, Buhner, and Randy Johnson left.

Kyle

by Kyle Turney on Oct 11, 2006 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I commented on this

back in July.

Piniella is an old-school manager who thinks that young players need to sit and learn while incompetent veterans play. Carlos Guillen, whom Piniella was praising so much, spent an extra two years in the minors and a year on the bench so that Rich Amaral could play. Bret Boone and Raul Ibanez both got traded away from Seattle because they were doing nothing on Piniella's bench. Sweet Lou was playing Rickey Henderson and Stan Javier over Raul Ibanez.

If you're a kid with the talent of Alex Rodriguez, Piniella will play you. Otherwise, you'll rot on the bench until the GM trades you away.

Piniella believes in overworking his pitchers, just like Dusty Baker. From the Seattle Times

This shouldn't surprise anyone in these parts, but Piniella ascribes to the theory that pitchers today are babied, that there's no reason baseball can't revert to the halcyon days of four-man rotations and 300-inning workhorses.

"These kids today are more protected than the manatees in Florida," Piniella railed in 1997.

That's just two reasons why Piniella should not be managing the Cubs.

by Josh77 on Oct 11, 2006 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

To be fair...

Carlos Guillen, Bret Boone and Raul Ibanez hardly established themselves as great players during their tenures away from Seattle.

Guillen wasn't very good until his year 28 season when he finally took off for Detroit.

Bret Boone had a nice first season for Cincinnati, then was very mediocre until his return to Seattle.

Ibanez has always been just a nice player, never anything spectacular.

If I were in Piniella's shoes I probably would have started the vets I had over unproven commodities that went on to take another 5-7 years to establish themselves as anything special.

Boone and Guillen are extremely poor examples.

hhhhiftqdaa

by theprognosticator on Oct 12, 2006 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I commented on this

back in July.

If you're a kid with the talent of Alex Rodriguez, Piniella will play you. Otherwise, you'll rot on the bench until the GM trades you away.

Piniella believes in overworking his pitchers, just like Dusty Baker. From the Seattle Times

"These kids today are more protected than the manatees in Florida," Piniella railed in 1997.

That's just two reasons why Piniella should not be managing the Cubs.

by Josh77 on Oct 11, 2006 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought that you were against him because of the

...handshake grip in the first photo, lol? There should be a caption on that first photo: "...And this how I took down Dibble in the clubhouse..."

The base tossing photo is outstanding, great follow through and the cap is lying on the ground...could be an interesting event in World's Strongest Man comps...

If Hendry remains as GM then obviously he has to win ASAP, and that alone probably dictates that he'll rank Pinella as his first choice. Not that I agree, but I don't see Hendry turning over his fate to Girardi in 2007, he'll go down with the veteran Pinella most likely.

by DudeVf1 on Oct 11, 2006 9:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

WTF@$%&?

Why is it that Phil Rogers always has to come along and screw everything up--Don't know if you saw his article this a.m. This search engine

Apparently he's the only moron who thinks that Pinella is the right choice for manager in the whole city of Chicago.. Here we are so close to getting Girardi, and Rogers has to come along a muck it all up. Sometimes I think he does so just to piss people off--Why does he do this? Oh, yeah....to create a stir and get under the sking of folks like me. Stay tuned, tomorrow he'll be arguing for a trade of Zambrano and Lee for Kenny Rogers and Pudge Rodriguez. This way, the Cubs can continue with their "short-term" planning--which he supports in his article.

Phil Rogers isn't interested in the long-term strategies of our baseball team--he's all pumped to jeopordize Girardi's relationship with the Cubs by signing up Pinella and a bunch of aging veterans -- We've tried that approach, Phil. It hasn't worked. I'm now wondering if he's been around at all over the past twenty years.

85% of the world's working and the other 15% come out here (to Wrigley). --Lee Elia

by southerncubbie on Oct 11, 2006 10:19 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Fortunately....

... Phil Rogers is a sportswriter and not in charge of hiring.

by Al on Oct 11, 2006 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Phil Rogers

But is Girardi the best choice when Piniella is an option?

Long term, yes. But this isn't a long term, rebuilding sort of assignment, no matter what the 2006 standings suggest it should be. The Cubs have this crazy idea about being the Detroit Tigers of 2007. That's why Hendry needs to make the toughest of decisions--breaking Girardi's heart and doing everything he can to persuade Piniella that Chicago is the place to assure himself of a spot as a Hall of Fame manager.

"Our goal," McDonough pronounced, "is to win the World Series next year and the year after that."

Who has a better chance to help you reach that goal? Piniella, who has won in both leagues, with players as dissimilar as Rob Dibble, who wrestled him in the Reds clubhouse, and the elegant Ichiro Suzuki, who led a Mariners team to 116 victories after it had lost Ken Griffey Jr., Randy Johnson and Alex Rodriguez? Or Girardi, who did a good job for one year with a clubhouse full of young kids and the remarkable Dontrelle Willis?

That's a no-brainer.

My God, how does this man manage to function in civilized society?

by VS on Oct 11, 2006 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, thankfully

he's not in charge. Let's hope Hendry doesn't read this article and thinks Phil is on to something.

Go Hawkeyes...Beat Indiana!!!

by sue369 on Oct 11, 2006 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ummm...

Didn't that 116 win Mariners team lose to the Yankees in the ALCS?

When trouble arises there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that individual is crazy. - Dave Barry

by Jesse Guam on Oct 11, 2006 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Remarkable??

12-12 with a 3.87 era is remarkable?

by Kornchex on Oct 11, 2006 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Haha

Better than Wood and Prior for a fourth the cost.

"Incidentally, Colossus was right and I was wrong about Maddux being dealt." -Al Yellon

by colossus on Oct 11, 2006 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Managers are largely overrated

They get too much credit when they succeed and too much blame when they fail. Anyone still think Torre is a genius? Even Don Baylor could have won the division with that talent.

Anyone who thinks getting Lou over Girardi, or vice versa, gets the Cubs into the playoffs is crazy. The best manager in the league vs. the worst decides a few games in the regular season at best.

The Cubs need starting pitching and some bats. If they get those, I could care less who manages.

I'm guessing Pinella will have more entertaining press conferences, though.

by salparadise23 on Oct 11, 2006 10:42 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I usually attend 5 or 6 games @ Wrigley a year....

but if Lou Pinella is the manager, I'm not going. Simple as that. I prefer Dusty over Lou.

by Neifi Puppy on Oct 11, 2006 10:59 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Are you Dusty's son or Neifi, lol? jk

n/t

by DudeVf1 on Oct 11, 2006 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Piniella

Anybody who hears him "analyze" these games on FOX the last couple years knows that he shouldn't be managing anywhere! He had some success in the past but his mind has turned to mush quickly, if it already hadn't years ago. jesus! It's painful!
As far as the "kick in the ass" thing, Girardi would provide that, but in a much better way, and he's young and intelligent enough to adapt.

by cashcowsquirtingsourmilk on Oct 11, 2006 11:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I am convinced that Raymond Babbitt

Could manage a baseball team. Has anyone heard any Grady Little sound bites lately? He sounds like a cross between Billy Bob Thornton's "sling blade" character and Lou Holtz. I am convinced that he is Mentally handicaped.

" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico loose a ball in the Sun? "

by aaronb on Oct 11, 2006 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree; NO to Piniella

I watched a few innings of a FOX game (Astros vs. Cards) earlier this season and thought the color guy was totally lost. He had nothing insightful to add, nothing original. Nothing perceptive. Very slow on the uptake. His old school comments made me cringe. Total dinosaur. I remember thinking, "who the heck is this joker?"

When I learned it was Lou Piniella, I was absolutely shocked.

I had to keep watching, as painful as it was, just to believe my ears.

The man is genuinely genuinely not very bright. There is no way I would want a man that dim and antiquated in his ideas to manage my team.

Hopefully McDonough and Hendry can recognize Piniella's mental limitations. If not, I highly recommend someone force them to sit down in front of the TIVO to experience Piniella during a ML game.

If people want a man who stresses fundamental play and discipline-- well, those seem to be two of Joe Girardi's strongest points as a manager. Plus Girardi could out-brain Piniella in his sleep.

Jeez. I really don't see anything to gain by hiring Piniella.

by Romero on Oct 11, 2006 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Base Throwing Incident

I was lucky enough to be at that game as a kid. I sat in the right field bleachers and still remember the crowd going nuts when he went ballistic.

So I jump ship in Hong Kong...

by Ryetronics on Oct 11, 2006 11:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm Begging

Girardi .... please. As I have said I watched about 75 Marlin games and 70 pregame Girardi shows ... He is exactly what the Cubs need No nonsense tough skipper. Early on he took Olsen in the Dugout Alley way grabbed his Jersey and got in his face..Kid was a different pitcher after that.
My money is on some one like Botchy.... I think Hendry, a great buddy of the Marlins crowd is just going thru the motions with Joe.... Pinella his act is old the young players are not going to respond to this stuff.....
Bottom line Hendry should have been gone with Rusty and McFail...................I hope I hope Al gets his wish Girardi Please I'm Beggin

by FlaCub on Oct 11, 2006 11:15 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Chicago Rage Off

C'mon Pinella would be great for the city. We could have a Tantrometer, and much like Fantasy baseball have Pinella and Ozzie go head to head in weekly competitions to see who loses it the most

points for in game verbal and physical rants, post game clubhouse tantrums, as well as media based missteps

by flyball on Oct 11, 2006 11:49 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

When Lou was With Seattle...

... they played extremely smart ball. Hit to the right side of the infield when warranted. Hit the cut-off man. I was impressed by the number of "useful" outs where batters put team ahead of individual numbers. Very intelligent approaches at the plate, and it seemed they were always into the other team's bullpen early

I don't understand the vitriol whatsoever. From what I have read, Girardi is a younger version (w/o the base-chucking), so are age and temperament the issues? Girardi is my first choice for the EXACT reason that he's got Lou's managerial mindset, but if Sweet Lou is the choice, count me in the "Yea!" category.

Jumping ship if Lou's named the manager? We've lived through horrible ball for decades, but if bringing in a proven winner is the straw that breaks some folks' backs... I must wonder.

"Babe Ruth is dead, just throw strikes!"

by Goat Whisperer on Oct 11, 2006 12:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

God bless you Goat whisperer...

Couldn't agree more. Well, I could. but it would be silly and time consuming.

Well said.

"I can't be held responsible for what I personally tell my goons to do...."- C. Montgomery Burns

by yahoodi on Oct 11, 2006 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have no doubt

that Lou Piniella's teams play better fundamental baseball than Dusty Baker's. As did Joe Girardi's team. My main problem with Piniella is that he gives up on his teams if he thinks they can't win. That's what happened in Seattle, when he decided they were going into a rebuilding phase and tried to engineer a trade to the Mets that backfired and landed him in Tampa Bay. It's also what happened in Tampa Bay when he begged out of his contract after 3 consecutive 90-100 loss seasons. It's what will happen with the Cubs after they lose 90 games next year and the Yankees job opens up.

by jamie on Oct 11, 2006 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think the Cubs

are as interested in Piniella as Piniella is in them.

"I enjoyed my time talking to Lou Piniella," Hendry said. "He's an outstanding baseball person and for all the things he has accomplished in the game he certainly deserves to be a candidate."

"I enjoyed my time talking to Lou Piniella" and "he certainly deserves to be a candidate" don't exactly scream "I want to hire Lou Piniella" to me. We'd all probably enjoy our time talking with Lou Piniella. I'm sure he has some great stories about Billy Martin and whatnot. He can keep telling them on Fox.

by jamie on Oct 11, 2006 12:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Either Hendry

isn't going to hire Pinella or he really wants to throw people off by not giving any positive hints.

If that statement really does reflect what Hendry thinks though, it won't be Pinella.

Thank you, Darwin.

"Incidentally, Colossus was right and I was wrong about Maddux being dealt." -Al Yellon

by colossus on Oct 11, 2006 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Piniella and Leyland

are not a good comparison. Sure they are both older, recycled managers who will get in your face if needed, but that's about where the comparison ends. Leyland could manage circles around Piniella. Being an old school set in your ways manager isn't a bad thing if you are a good manager. Leyland is.

Yes, Piniella is like an angry Dusty Baker. Same dim wit decisions, more yelling. I'd prefer a manager who makes good decisions for a change. Proper batting order, better use of the bullpen etc etc.......

Joe Girardi may not be perfect but he is so obviously the better choice than Piniella it's not even close. I've kind of stuck up for Hendry lately telling people to give him a chance now that McPhail and Dusty are gone. If he hires Piniella though with Girardi still available that's it, I'll never support him again.

by pageian on Oct 11, 2006 12:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I couldn't agree more.

n/t

by Kornchex on Oct 11, 2006 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Before you call Leyland a genius...

...remember that in a pivotal playoff game he not only started Neifi Perez, he batted him second.

That right there precludes Leyland from any genius talk for the rest of his life.

hhhhiftqdaa

by theprognosticator on Oct 12, 2006 3:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also...

...for his career Leyland has a sub .500 record. Piniella is over .500.

And these Tigers that yes, are winning right now, have an offensive mindset much like Dusty Baker instilled in our players during his tenure.

Very impatient, high strikeout team. Third from the bottom in the AL in OBP this year. They are the very model that we were up until our Bondermans and Verlanders got hurt.

Granted, it hasn't come back to haunt them yet and it may not unless we send Bartman out there to sit down the LF foul line and hope Neifi channels the spirit of Alex Gonzalez at some crucial moment, but the Detroit Tigers are almost the exact same kind of team the Cubs were during our three year window from 2003-2005.

But the point is, I don't see any real difference between Piniella, Dusty, or Leyland for that matter. Leyland is doing a lot of the same crazy stuff I saw coming from Dusty this year that made us tear our collective hair out. The difference? His crazy stuff seems to be working right now or isn't contributing in a way that buries the ballclub.

Bottom line, it comes down to the roster next year. If the Cubs don't hire Girardi, of course I'll be upset, but it comes down ultimately to the rosters and how the players we get play. Replacing Pierre, Cedeno, Izturis, with better players, and getting some healthy starting pitching will go a lot further towards improving the team than a manager.

hhhhiftqdaa

by theprognosticator on Oct 12, 2006 4:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

One Man's (Marriotti) Opinion

I loathe MArriotti - But this is from today:

" I could endorse either candidate. As I've written all along, Piniella is my favorite and Girardi a close No. 2, with the assumption Piniella wasn't coming. Now that he wants to come, I'd prefer the Cubs not bamboozle him if they aren't serious about winning the mushy National League Central next season."

"Even in his 60s, Lou would be a crackling leader, an in-your-face bulldog, a clever strategist who shamed Jerry Manuel and the White Sox in the 2000 divisional series. But he also takes losing hard, accustomed as he was to winning in Cincinnati and Seattle."

Beat Iowa in all sports. Go Illini!

by TheEman on Oct 11, 2006 1:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Piniella To San Francisco Giants

The word out here is that Piniella is at the top of the list to replace Felipe Alou as manager of the Giants. I'm not sure of the connection, but he has some historical connection to Giants GM Brian Sabean.

Also, with the Giants/Sabean philosophy of getting the oldest veteran players possible, having a kick-butt manager like Piniella might work better than with a younger squad.

But I don't know how any manager is going to claim authority in the Giants' club house if they bring the real decision maker, Barry Bonds, back for another year.

by SiValleyCubFan on Oct 11, 2006 1:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Wow!

Imagine Piniella and Bonds in the same clubhouse. It might cause another SF earthquake!

FWIW, Piniella and Bonds missed being active players at the same time by only 1 year. Piniella retired after the 1984 season, and Bonds' debut was in 1986.

Presuming Roger Clemens retires, and Bonds does return, only Julio Franco will be a 2007 active player who played in the majors before Bonds.

And I hadn't remembered this, but in looking up Bonds' rookie year -- one of his Pirates teammates was, of all people, Rick Reuschel.

by Al on Oct 11, 2006 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bonds just wants to win.

I doubt he'd have a problem with Piniella at all.

by Maddog on Oct 11, 2006 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bonds wants to win?

I'm not so sure. He wants to break the HR record. He has always been a "Barry Bonds" guy more than a "team" guy. Not that he doesn't play hard and contribute a lot, but I think winning a championship is lower on his list of priorities than it is for most players.

If he really wanted to win, he'd agree to play for a greatly reduced base salary with some sort of incentive clause based on the number of games in which he appears (either with the Giants, or more likely, assuming he wants a chance to win, as DH with some AL team like the Angels). That would allow the Giants (or AL team) to go and spend a little more money to pick up a free agent or two.

You can't take Bonds' quotes as gospel, since he has mentioned in the past that he doesn't even believe half the things that come out of his mouth, but he has stated recently that he won't take a drastic pay cut next year or an incentive-laden deal. Take that for what it's worth. It could just be posturing going into a negotiation.

by SiValleyCubFan on Oct 11, 2006 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

Bonds wants to win. As every single person who plays MLB. Don't kid yourself. The money is great, but these guys want to win more than they want to make money. You can call Bonds a piece of shit or whatever and I might agree, but questioning his desire to win in this game is crazy. You don't play on those knees simply because you like baseball or want a home run record that nobody will ever acknowldge exists. You do it because you have something else to play for...in Bonds case it's the championship.

If Bonds wants to play next season he's going to have to take a big pay cut. It's not up to him at this point.

by Maddog on Oct 11, 2006 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I doubt he needs the money...

.. so at his age, a pay cut isn't that big a deal. He likes the adulation he gets in SF, so I suspect he re-signs there.

And sure, he wants to win -- but if that were his primary motivation, he'd never have started doing steroids. He wanted the HR records he thought were "unfairly" going to Sosa and McGwire. Well, he got one of them, and it appears he may get the other. Both are tainted.

by Al on Oct 11, 2006 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would bet

that part of his bitterness stems from barely losing the 2002 world series. Remember when he talked about retiring if they would have won? He may have been lying but who knows.

by cashcowsquirtingsourmilk on Oct 11, 2006 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't buy that.

Just because he took steroids because he was jealous of what Sosa and McGwire had done certainly doesn't mean that he didn't want to win. Look, Bonds is so broken down at this point and he still goes out there and plays as often as he does. He grimaces as he's rounding the bases on a home run. Imagine the pain he has trying to run down a ball in the gaps or trying to get to 2nd for a double. I just don't buy that a player goes through all of this to get to something that people will call tainted for at least the next 20-25 years. After that, I expect his accomplishments on the field to stand and be considered as legitimate as anyone who played before him.

Anyway, i don't want to get into a Bonds debate so I'll just leave it alone. I just think it's unfair to question the man's desire to win. Question eveyrthing else, but not that.

by Maddog on Oct 11, 2006 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He may need the money...

...depending on how much he's paying Greg Anderson to not testify against him. ;-)

I'll agree that Bonds wants to win games as opposed to losing them. But he's sticking around and playing through all that joint pain to get the home run record more than to win a championship.

by SiValleyCubFan on Oct 12, 2006 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

So much for the Brenly groundswell ...

"P-A-L-A-T-I-N-E! Go, Pirates!"

by Littlerock Rynofan on Oct 11, 2006 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's time to

stop hiring carpetbaggers and get a manager who has a history with the Cubs and Chicago. We haven't had that since Bob Scheffing in the late 1950s.

The three most sucessful managers in Cubs history were home grown.

by Clark Addison on Oct 11, 2006 3:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

a losing history

is a not what we need.

by cubswin on Oct 11, 2006 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bob Scheffing?????????

How did he do?

Get Zito and Soriano, and it won't matter who the hell the manager is!

by tommy veryzer on Oct 11, 2006 5:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

GIRARDI ONLY choice,Y? because hes a CUBS FAN TOO

I agree with all the Girardi supporters reasons for him being manager with this additional point.
HES A CUBS FAN! he knows what were going through ..he knows why we get angry ... he knows how we feel being a cubs fan... All the rest of the candidates are doing it as a business deal... Girardi will give us his heart too...Thta reason above all else should be our reason to give Girardi the job... Lets see what a cubs fan can do as manager of this team

by edo4cubs on Oct 11, 2006 7:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I just heard

Pinella say "these young pitchers are just valuable, valuable commodities!"

Sounds like he is capable of learning from his mistakes.

"I lof to hit de home ron."

by Tekboy on Oct 11, 2006 8:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Just to clarify....

I'm still a Girardi guy, although I would not be opposed to Piniella. Regarding all the earlier talk about Uncle Lou throwing bases around: Meaningless, yes. Immature, I guess. But you have to admit, it's funny. Managerial tantrums still make for great baseball blooper video material.

"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Oct 11, 2006 9:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

And it also

shows that a manager is at least paying attention/caring about what is happening during the game.

Considering our recently departed manager only came out of the dugout a few times during the season (not insluding the trips to the mound), it might be a refreshing change to see someone with a little fire in his gut.

That's not to say that he will be the "right" guy, however.

Forget about '07. Let's wait until 2008!

by secdelahc on Oct 12, 2006 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs