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Josh Hamilton?

Jerry Crasnick mentioned in the live blog on ESPN that the Reds are looking for pitching but doubted that Sean Marshall would be enough to get Hamilton and that other options for the Reds with different teams might be there.

Just a thought.  Hamilton in CF?  I'd still like to see Pie get a chance.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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What a waste it would seem like
if they ended up with Hamilton after the whole to do with the Reds to begin with.  I know though, we never had any intention to hold onto him.
MMMMM...Golden shrimp and chicken combo from Ron of Japan!

by Kinky Reggae on Dec 3, 2007 6:50 PM CST reply actions  

Hamilton
This has been rehashed over and over but one of the comments that I've heard regarding the Hamilton draft situation is that the Cubs weren't even told who they'd be drafting until they agreed to make the selection for the Reds. I'm not sure how the entire situation worked out logistically but this happens all the time, so it makes sense that the team who wants a player wouldn't let it be known who the player was for fear that someone else would take him.

DmL

by dmlichte on Dec 3, 2007 7:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Hamilton in RF
I'd love to see Josh Hamilton playing in rightfield.  There's no chance that Hendry would trade Hill, but how about Sam Fuld, Gallagher, and another pitching prospect not named Veal or Marshall? Hamilton's injury risk and colorful history ought to make him cheaper than a player with similar stats lacking those things.

Also, IIRC, didn't Hendry take Hamilton in the Rule 5 draft only as part of a deal he'd worked out with the Reds? Hamilton was a Jerry Narron project, and his name was basically mud around MLB.  You can fault Hendry for plenty, but I don't think we can rip him for this one.  

Since I left, I've always missed Chicago but never as much as I do right now!

by TMOX on Dec 3, 2007 7:41 PM CST reply actions  

It was definitely pre-arranged...
...as are a lot of the top picks in the rule 5 drafts.  In hindsight, I too had wondered why the Cubs just didn't keep him, but I forgot the key component of a rule 5 draftee - he has to be on the major league roster the whole year or he gets offered back to his original team for half the original fee ($50K?).  If they say no thanks, then you can send him down.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 3, 2007 7:48 PM CST up reply actions  

it's in the Trib -
you all read the same article I did
"I got mad hits like I was Rod Carew!"

by lostinthevines on Dec 4, 2007 11:24 AM CST up reply actions  

I did know this...
I just thought it'd be ironic if we ended up with him after the draft arrangement.
MMMMM...Golden shrimp and chicken combo from Ron of Japan!

by Kinky Reggae on Dec 3, 2007 8:52 PM CST reply actions  

Hamilton
is definitely intriguing. The guy seems to have amazing talent. Does anyone off hand know what his OBP or walk total are?

One of the main reasons I support the signing of Fukudome is his patience and high OBP.

We already have enough free swingers!

Cubs chances in '08? Beats the FUK-U-DO-ME!

by Hugest Canadian Cubs Fan on Dec 3, 2007 9:21 PM CST reply actions  

.370 OBP
 and a .922 OPS.

 He'd definitely be worth a look at if the Reds are considering trading him. Wouldn't be able to get him without parting with Gallagher, which is fine with me.

 Only real negative on his rookie season, is his avg against Left Handers. I suspect he'll get better against LH

"Thanks bro, see ya later" Tony Larussa to Jupiter cops after being informed he was asleep in the middle of an intersection.

by lemon20pie on Dec 3, 2007 9:28 PM CST up reply actions  

What a dumb diary
The fact that this though popped into your proved that you dont know anything about the cubs needs this offseason or the way jim hendry thinks.

by CubFan BudMan on Dec 3, 2007 9:26 PM CST reply actions  

Hmmm....decent OBP
and a young player.  Sounds like a decent pickup to me.  If you can't add anything useful to the diary, why even bother posting?  I'm just reporting what I read from the Winter Meetings live blog on ESPN.  
"Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?"

by Jettero2112 on Dec 3, 2007 10:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Right.
CubFanBudMan's comment was inappropriate. This diary wasn't "dumb". If anyone disagrees with the content, the right thing to do is to say WHY you disagree, not just call the content "dumb".

Thanks.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 4, 2007 4:37 AM CST up reply actions  

Nanna nanna boo-boo, CFBM
You're up early, Al. What brand of coffee do you drink? You've got more irons in the fire than at a brander's convention
"I got mad hits like I was Rod Carew!"

by lostinthevines on Dec 4, 2007 11:26 AM CST up reply actions  

Hamilton
Low average against lefties might lead to platoon with Murton which I think would work along with Fukodome. Hendry needs to win this year which is why they cannott enter 08 with Pie and his low BA and OBP. He seems to be doing no better now in winter ball either.

by plenz on Dec 4, 2007 10:20 AM CST up reply actions  

It's gotta be Fukudome or bust
It'd be a waste of time and money for him to platoon RF w/ anyone - Murton, Hamilton, etc. The other option, assuming Fukudome will be signed (and it's not a safe assumption by any means) would be to platoon Hamilton w/ Pie in CF.
"I got mad hits like I was Rod Carew!"

by lostinthevines on Dec 4, 2007 11:28 AM CST up reply actions  

Care to elaborate why you think that?
He's a young player with good power, decent athleticism, good OBP (thus very good OPS), LH batter, and plays RF.  What about that isn't EXACTLY what the Cubs are looking for?

Are there concerns with Hamilton?  Sure.  He's only had one year of success above A ball, and he's certainly a risk to relapse.  But based on what Hendry and Piniella have stated, Hamilton is EXACTLY what the Cubs are looking for in a player.

by SouthernCub on Dec 4, 2007 6:51 AM CST up reply actions  

You kinda answered your own question.
The road back down to A-ball is littered with one-year wonders
"I got mad hits like I was Rod Carew!"

by lostinthevines on Dec 4, 2007 11:29 AM CST up reply actions  

I wish we could get him
I don't think the Reds would take prospects without a starter. I'd offer Marquis, and a pitcher like Gallagher or Veal and see how close that got us.

by JDay on Dec 3, 2007 9:30 PM CST reply actions  

If they take
Marquis for Hamilton, then one of two things are true - the Cubs did very well in that trade or Hamilton's body is in real bad shape from the drug abuse and he will be less durable than Griffey.  I hope for Hamilton's sake the latter is not true.  But I am very suspicious of the Reds being willing to trade a popular player who had an OPS in the .900s in his rookie year.

by DGU on Dec 3, 2007 10:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Body in bad shape from drug abuse????
 You can't be serious. He's only 26 years old and did heavy drugs for what, 4 years? His body won't feel the effects of his drug use for another 10 years or so, he's still young. Look at Keith Richards for christs sake. HE's still rocking out and touring and rocking out for 2 1/2 hours is more physically demanding than playing baseball and his body is handling it well enough.

 I'd be more concerned about Hamilton relapsing. I have no worries about whether or not his body is breaking down after 4 years of drug abuse.

"Thanks bro, see ya later" Tony Larussa to Jupiter cops after being informed he was asleep in the middle of an intersection.

by lemon20pie on Dec 3, 2007 10:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Just read this on ESPN
looks like Pie could be the CF this year.

"The Rangers had talks with Arizona about Carlos Gonzalez, the New York Mets about Carlos Gomez and the Chicago Cubs about Felix Pie. But the Diamondbacks wanted top pitching prospect Eric Hurley, the Mets were interested in trading for catcher Gerald Laird and the Cubs have decided that Pie will be their center fielder."

Here's the link.

Last paragraph in the article 'Waiting for the dominoes to fall'.

"Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?"

by Jettero2112 on Dec 3, 2007 10:20 PM CST reply actions  

BS
it is RUMOR time, dude!
Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Dec 3, 2007 10:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Up his value
No doubt by posturing that Pie is going to start in center in increases his value. You don't want to say Pie is going to be at triple-A or a backup in the majors. He's available in the right deal, I'm sure.
"It's a long fly to left field. And there it goes. Ahhh crap." -- Harry Caray

by cubz1963 on Dec 3, 2007 11:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Everyone is available in the right deal
But when the Cubs' stated goals are to add lefty OFs and speed, what possible deal could the Cubs make that would include Pie and help them reach those goals?

by DGU on Dec 4, 2007 12:34 AM CST up reply actions  

GOD NO!!
What has Pie really done to impress anyone? There HAS to be a fallback option here.......we go nowhere with c CF hitting .220..........

by plenz on Dec 4, 2007 10:25 AM CST up reply actions  

Couldn't agree more.
Let him become a stud three years from now somewhere else. We need production NOW, and I don't see it coming from Pie. No one does.
"I got mad hits like I was Rod Carew!"

by lostinthevines on Dec 4, 2007 11:32 AM CST up reply actions  

"No one" - Bah!
The Bill James Handbook projects him to hit .283/.333/.456 which will not be bad at all for a plus-defensive CF with speed.  I'd be willing to bet that when PECOTA comes out, it'll be in that same ballpark.

by DGU on Dec 4, 2007 1:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Blah blah blah
Nothing lies like numbers. PECOTA and James can't predict injuries, where the player bats in the lineup, changes in other teams' staffs, etc.
"I got mad hits like I was Rod Carew!"

by lostinthevines on Dec 4, 2007 8:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Fa-la-la-la and a Merry Christmas to you, too, sir
I mean, do you want to know what a good prediction for Pie in 2008 would be or not?  Because one way we could have a discussion about Pie's future is for Jim Hendry and Lou to say, "He'll be good," and for you to say, "Will not," and for me to say, "Will too," and we could go on for a while.

Or we could look at Pie's #s and consider other players like him in similar situations.  (Which is what James and PECOTA help do for us.)

Or maybe you have a third suggestion.  I don't know.  What I do know is that the statement, "No one expects Pie to hit well in 2008" is flat wrong.

by DGU on Dec 4, 2007 8:59 PM CST up reply actions  

re: GOD NO!!
Well, I, for one, have been already been impressed by Pie's defense. His offense is, indeed, highly questionable. But he's young and he's performed well offensively at every professional level he's played at except the Major Leagues. Lou's been very open about the fact that they'll be working with Felix to shorten his swing and improve his pitch selection. It's entirely possible, perhaps even probable, that he may continue to struggle at the plate next season -- especially early on. But it's also quite possible that he'll improve. I think it's do or die time for Felix, and I'd like to see him given ample opportunities to do -- and do well.
Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Dec 4, 2007 11:32 AM CST up reply actions  

LOL
" he's young and he's performed well offensively at every professional level he's played at except the Major Leagues. "

Let's all move over to the Iowa Cubs message board, then, and talk about how great he is.

"I got mad hits like I was Rod Carew!"

by lostinthevines on Dec 4, 2007 11:36 AM CST up reply actions  

Let's do that. Or maybe just you.
Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Dec 4, 2007 11:43 AM CST up reply actions  

WAAAAAAAAAAAA
"I got mad hits like I was Rod Carew!"

by lostinthevines on Dec 4, 2007 11:58 AM CST up reply actions  

Hamilton
being so available sounds fishy to me also.  Especially straight up for Marshall.  You guys scour the minor leagues more then me....what are the Reds thinking with an aging Griffey and all.  

by Comfortably Numb on Dec 4, 2007 4:51 AM CST reply actions  

Jay Bruce is what Reds are thinking
 and their dire need for starting pitching makes Hamilton a good piece to acquire pitching. It would take more than Marshall though. Marshall's just a starting point.
"Thanks bro, see ya later" Tony Larussa to Jupiter cops after being informed he was asleep in the middle of an intersection.

by lemon20pie on Dec 4, 2007 5:22 AM CST up reply actions  

I'd do it
If you can get Hamilton for Marshall, I would do it.  I would then still pursue Fukudome just as hard and then consider the options.
  1. Pie becomes a potential trading chip, especially with Colvin now on the radar screen.
  2. Consider moving Soriano back to 2B.  I know this isn't ideal defensively, but, the OF defense could be insane, and he has a gold glove 1B next to him to take some pressure off.  This would make DeRosa either a super sub, or, more likely a trading chip.
One downside would be that it would obviously make Murton expendable, but everyone knows that already.
Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Dec 4, 2007 7:18 AM CST up reply actions  

agree with #1..
but not #2. I think Soriano's infield days are behind him. I would especially not want a bad defensive second baseman if the staff is going to have groundball pitchers.
Reds will finish above the Cubs in the NL Central. Book it.

by wicubfan on Dec 4, 2007 9:26 AM CST up reply actions  

re: agree with #1..
Yeah, Soriano's not going back to the infield -- nor should he. He was never that great a second baseman to begin with.
Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Dec 4, 2007 9:29 AM CST up reply actions  

Trading D-Ro for anything other than
a stud CF or RF would be silly. Everyone's expendable, but that dude proved his mettle day after day last year.
"I got mad hits like I was Rod Carew!"

by lostinthevines on Dec 4, 2007 11:34 AM CST up reply actions  

I wonder
if there is any tie between the fact that Mr. Baker has been hired as the Manager and the now apparent desire to move Hamilton.  Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that it is "hot" in Cincinatti during the summer and that the manager of the Reds has been quoted as saying that certain ethnic groups do better in hot weather.  And Hamilton is not a member of that ethnic group.  Or perhaps it is because Hamilton is a young player with less than a full season, and a certain manager does not like to play even good young players (at least good young position players).  Or perhaps it is because Mr. Hamilton has a high OBP based on the fact that he takes walks, but as he only has three steals, he's a "base clogger".  

If I was the GM of a team that had Mr. Baker as the manager (assuming I could not fire Mr. Baker which would be my first action upon taking the Job), I would certainly try to trade every player like Hamilton for value as quickly as possible.  Because even a half season of Mr. Baker would quickly destroy the trade value.  Its the first "smart" thing that I have seen from Cincinatti's GM.

(And, of course, with Mr. Baker as your manager, a grizzled Veteran like Griffey, Jr. is far far more valuable.  He's the guy that Mr. Baker will want to run out every day.  Heck, I would see if Griffey, Sr. is still available to play.   Mr. Baker would likely want to start him over Hamilton as well.  After all, his career counting stats are much much higher.)

by frustratedfan on Dec 4, 2007 9:18 AM CST up reply actions  

They have no pitching...
...but they do have Ryan Freel and Norris Hopper, plus uber-prospect Jay Bruce. They lack pitching. It's dealing from depth to address a need; nothing more sinister than that. I'm sure the Cubs would get detailed medical records from the Reds if a deal went down, to mollify those that raised concerns the Reds wanted to deal him because they knew something about his health risks.
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Dec 4, 2007 9:27 AM CST up reply actions  

I'd do it, too.
I've always liked Sean Marshall. I think, assuming he can stay healthy, he'll make a great No 4. or No. 5 starter. But Hamilton does appear an ideal fit for the Cubs (high OBP, left), and the Cubs have other pitching prospects that could move into the back end of the rotation if need be. (And I hope there is a need as I believe having both Dempster and Marquis in the starting five creates a redundancy, and one of them should be traded.) Hamilton's drug history is obviously a concern. But maybe there's some way the Cubs could get a read on whether a relapse is more likely than not.

All that said, I still have my heart set on Fukudome. But Hamilton would be a more than serviceable Plan B.

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Dec 4, 2007 9:27 AM CST reply actions  

Levine...
... said about an hour ago that the Cubs have not even talked to the Reds about Hamilton.

It really doesn't even seem like Hamilton is on the radar for the Cubs.

by big_lowitzki on Dec 4, 2007 12:51 PM CST reply actions  

Jerry Crasnick Reports
The Cubs don't have much hope of prying loose center fielder Josh Hamilton from Cincinnati. The Reds are willing to trade Hamilton, but they would prefer not to deal him to another club in the National League Central.

Here's the link: (Insiders only) http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3140986&name=winter_meetings

by TheHawk5 on Dec 4, 2007 9:22 PM CST reply actions  

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