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Around SBN: VIDEO: Veterans Share Favorite Sports Memories

When You Come By, Bring My Stomach

Those of you who are of "a certain age" will remember that title as the phrase Jack Brickhouse used to use on game telecasts where the Cubs got out of a really tough spot.

It would have been screamed last night. The ninth inning of the Cubs' excruciatingly exciting 3-2 win over the Astros had all the earmarks of yet another disaster.

Bad-bounce single. Triple. Walk. (Yes, I saw all your anguished comments in the game thread.) Looked like a repeat of the night before, didn't it?

And then the wrongly (in my mind) maligned Ryan Dempster got Eric Munson to hit a ground ball right to Derrek Lee, almost to the exact spot where the first ball of the inning, the freak-hop single by Mark Loretta, had bounced off first base. Lee slung it over to Ryan Theriot, in that graceful style we've seen so many times, for a forceout, and then Theriot, hurrying as he's never hurried before, lasered it back to Dempster covering first, just -- and I mean just -- getting Munson to end the game, and as you surely know, had he not done so, the game would have been tied, Mike Lamb had already crossed the plate from third base after his triple.

Whew! Cub Nation exhales. Lou Piniella said: "This type of game really should get us on a roll. You have to think that the worm has turned. You've got to start feeling like things are going to go your way."

It feels that way, doesn't it?

Everything else worked the Cubs' way last night. Cliff Floyd hit what was only his second HR since June 26 -- way, WAY up into the second deck in right field, one of the monster bombs he used to hit while he was a Met, and a Marlin, and a Red Sock, and even an Expo (doesn't it seem about 50 years since there even were "Expos"?). If Uncle Cliffy can keep hitting like this for the next two and a half -- no, strike that, make that the next SIX and a half weeks, good things are going to follow.

And hey! The Cubs have another starting pitcher. Rich Hill matched his fine effort in Houston from August 6, throwing seven innings of three-hit ball, allowing only a solo HR (last time: Carlos Lee. This time: Mark Loretta), and striking out three (last time: two). THIS time, he also got a win for his performance.

Hill won his ninth game of the season. If he wins one more, the Cubs will have two left-handed starters with ten or more wins. The last time that happened was in 1961, when both Dick Ellsworth and Jack Curtis won ten. That's more a testament to the lack of lefthanded starters over the years than to Curtis and Ellsworth really being any good in '61 (both had losing records, Curtis 10-13 and Ellsworth 10-11). The last time the Cubs had an actual good team with two double-figure-winner left-handed starters was the 1935 team which had Larry French (17-10) and Roy Henshaw (13-5, his only good season).

It's been a long time, right? It's been a long time for a lot of things. Keep winning. As Lou said, winning a game like that could spur a team on to a real roll. Keep the faith. And Happy Rosh Hashanah to all Jewish BCB readers.

Once again, there's a day game involving one of the Cubs' divisional rivals, this time the Cardinals, who are playing the Reds at 11:35 am Central time.

Here's the MLB.com Gameday for the Cardinals/Reds game.

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Nice win....
And all the people who are blaming Dempster and getting on his case - how about we win a few more games like we did on Sunday.  4 and 3 runs a game here on in wont get us to the playoffs.  It might win us a few playoff games but it wont get us there.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Sep 13, 2007 9:05 AM CDT reply actions  

Sunday = Monday
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Sep 13, 2007 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

Great win
Tonight is the time to show some early plate patience against WWilliams, and score some runs.  Any idea why we are stuck playing a night game on get- away day?  

by Slakkr on Sep 13, 2007 9:12 AM CDT reply actions  

Good question.
It's not that far to fly from Houston to St. Louis and the Cubs are playing a night game on Friday, that's probably why.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Sep 13, 2007 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Was wondering about that this morning...
But even so, I wonder why they couldn't change tomorrow's game to an afternoon game, considering that we are playing a doubleheader on Saturday. You'd think that the MLBPA and MLB would take into consideration the fact that both teams have not had a day off for some time and won't for another week or so. Am I wrong or the only one in thinking this?

(BTW, this is my first time posting on here...I've been reading you guys for a while, and decided to finally jump into the fray! So, hey everyone!)

by dacubsfan76 on Sep 13, 2007 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Welcome to the party
And your comments make far too much sense for MLB to think of and agree with.

by hawkeyenation on Sep 13, 2007 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks...
and you're right. I forgot who was in charge of MLB!!  Won't be making THAT mistake again! ;)

by dacubsfan76 on Sep 13, 2007 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wait.
Why would they play a day game tomorrow in another city after a night game today (for the Cubs)?

You can bet the MLBPA and the Cubs would have been screaming if the Cardinals had done that.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Sep 13, 2007 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Touche
Point made and duly noted.
Missing Da Cubbies from NYC!

by dacubsfan76 on Sep 13, 2007 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ron asked the same thing
last night during the game. (I'm one of those who listens to Pat and Ron instead of babbling Bob Brenly.)

Whether this is right or wrong I don't know, but Pat said that the home team gets to set the time for games and he felt Houston did this for their working fans to come to games. Of course Ron did not think that was right.

It's OK with me only because I will get to watch the game tonight.

This is Harry Carray, goodbye from Wrigley Field and So Long Everybody.

by mrcubsfan on Sep 13, 2007 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

I believe
that Houston would have to play a day game today if the Cubs were traveling to a different time zone, according to the CBA.  But because Houston and St. Louis are both in the central time zone, Houston can schedule a night game.

I'm not positive on the time zone thing, but I am positive that there is a rule that if the road team plays a game far enough away, the home team has to schedule a day game.  I think time zone is the determining factor.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh Timmers on Sep 13, 2007 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think you're right about the time zone.
Plus, teams are somewhat reticent to schedule weekday afternoon games once school has started.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Sep 13, 2007 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

BUT StL gets a day game with Cincinnati
Flight from Cinci (time zone change) is 350 miles and just under an hour in flight meaning hour to airport and home by another hour. Total 3 hours +/- for players leaving around 5 PM in cinci, 4PM StL time. In home by 8PM.

Houston to StL is 800 miles, 2 hours in flight time, 4 hours total to hotel, game starts at 7PM in airplane best by 11:30 (Trachsel pitching possibly midnight), no time zone change and then best flight lands in StL 2 AM, in hotel by 3 AM and Cubs will probably not be in park until 5PM

Milw-09-23-98--Brown in for defense--bases loaded--flyball--HE DROPPED THE BALL!!!NO NO NO, cubs lose 8-7

by Ivy Walls on Sep 13, 2007 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah
this makes me think it's a time zone thing.  Even though Cincinnati is closer to St. Louis than Houston is, Cincy is in a different time zone than St. Louis.  Therefore, Cincinnati has to schedule a day game.

That's the rules.  One supposes it's just easier to determine it by time zones rather than try to figure how far a flight is from each major league city.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh Timmers on Sep 13, 2007 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

I thought flight time was the determiner
If the flight to the next city was two hours or less, the home team could schedule a night game.

But maybe time zones have something to do with it, too.

Although I seem to recall the Cubs had a Thursday-night game in Atlanta (which is Eastern time) and a Friday-day game in Chicago this season?

by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 13, 2007 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, you're right...
... about that Atlanta scheduling. I thought that was REALLY odd.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Sep 13, 2007 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Pat & Ron talked about this last night
I think they received an e-mail asking that very same question, and Ron chimed in in that almost-whiney voice that always cracks me up.

The way Pat explained it, the home team has the final say on establishing game times.  And of course, it's all about money.  More people can attend night games than day.  TV ratings are better for night games than day.

It probably would have been a day game today had Houston also been traveling, but they're home against Pittsburgh this weekend, so they're going to do what's best for themselves.

And so should the Cubs.   How about a 12-5 blowout - Trachsel gets in 5 innings, Floyd goes yard again, DLee and JJ three hits apiece, and GSoto hits his second career homer.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Sep 13, 2007 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

CBA
I'm not a lawyer, but my reading of the CBA is that night games in different cities are OK except for travel between PT and ET zones.  Night game followed by day game is only acceptable with 1.5 hour flight or less (no mention of time zones) except for day games for Cubs, which are acceptable for 2.5 hour flight or less.

Because the DH is not on a getaway day, it doesn't count for requiring Houston to schedule a day game.

Hope this helps.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Sep 13, 2007 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nice win
Great to see Hill get himself untracked and Cliffy starting to hit the ball with authority.  Let's hope Cliffy can get on a roll.  This Cubs offense desperately needs it.

by cubsbak on Sep 13, 2007 9:17 AM CDT reply actions  

Correction...
As I continue to be impressed with Hill lately, I feel moved to correct your recap, Al:

Hill had seven Ks, not three.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/boxscore?gid=270912118

He looked great. Lou always talked about how tough he is on himself generally... nice to see him settling in for a big W.

Forgive me if this has already been discussed to death elsewhere. But as Dempster looked to be falling victim yet again to bad luck/implosion (no, it wasn't entirely his fault that the game was almost blown), a group of us in the Gingerman wondered when Marmol would become our closer. It's great to get those clutch 2 late innings of relief out of him, but if he were on the mound in situations like last night, I'd probably end up living a few years longer.

by mrsmiff on Sep 13, 2007 9:23 AM CDT reply actions  

Misread the boxscore, sorry.
n/t
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Sep 13, 2007 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe I misread your post, but didn't
Hill get 7 K's this time, and not 3?

Oh, and how lights-out has Bob Howry been as of late? I haven't quite noticed it, which might be a compliment(or that he just doesn't get on the mound that much), but he hasn't given up many runs when he's in, to the point where I haven't even bothered to check up his stats.

Stat lines:

Last 28 games- 2 ER, both solo HRs, over 14 innings for a 1.29 ERA

1st half of ball - 22 ER over 42 and a third innings for a 4.68 ERA in 39 appearances

2nd half of ball - 6 ER over 31 and a third innings for a 1.72 ERA in 32 appearances

Since August 1st, 1.64 ERA with 4 runs over 22 innings.

Hooray Bobbay!

"Ohmygodicantbelievewereonlyonehalfgameoutandhavethechancetotieforthedivisionleadwithawintonight!" - santoswoodenlegs

by NittanyCub on Sep 13, 2007 9:25 AM CDT reply actions  

Found this from cubs.com this morning
Nittany - Not only has Howry been pitching well lately and Marmol been pitching lights out (are we surprised there??), this is from the cubs.com site:

The Cubs' two most dominant pitchers since the All-Star break have been Carlos Marmol and Bob Howry, who have combined for a 1.74 earned-run average in the second half and have limited opposing hitters to a .169 average.

by dacubsfan76 on Sep 13, 2007 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't...
...call Lee's play graceful.  He appeared to bobble the ball a bit.

by jolietconvict on Sep 13, 2007 9:26 AM CDT reply actions  

Got the job done, didn't he?
n/t
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Sep 13, 2007 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sure...
... but that doesn't mean it was graceful - it was actually kinda' ugly.

by big_lowitzki on Sep 13, 2007 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ugly...
would have been Derek throwing it into left field after bobbling it.

Considering the bobble, it was pretty graceful, he did not panic, made a good throw and ended the game.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Sep 13, 2007 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

not only did it get the job done
but he appeared to have made the play with his bare hand. That's pretty amazing. Also, was nice to see Dempster hustling over to first to get a perfect relay back to him. Awesome play that I'll remember when this is all over.
"We're going to turn this team around 360 degrees." -Jason Kidd

by tony412 on Sep 13, 2007 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks
Its nice to step back and see the season as a whole.  

Glad we made it here and hope we have a little steam built up after last night.

Go Cubbies!

by El Borto on Sep 13, 2007 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

yeah, you'd like to think that they're
about to start a good streak; winning this series would be nice. but, then they're pitching trachsel on short rest! ha.

i just hope lou has him on a short leash--and that the offense has a night.

"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie

by buckmulligan on Sep 13, 2007 9:38 AM CDT reply actions  

On the way to work....
I finally heard the call from Pat and Ron on that double play to end the game last night. I've said it before about the home run calls, but it will never get old hearing them get so excited about something.

You know it's a big win too, not just cause Ron dropped the "OH MY GOOOOOOODDDDDDDDD" but because Lou just about put Dempster in the sleeper hold on the field. I would take a guess at what Lou said, but it probably involves a lot of four letter words and something along the lines of "If you keep making things this stressful I'm going to have this baby before the end of the season."

Critical win though. Has to boost the confidence of the club and really has to help mentally for Dempster. Tough week for him but this was a big one.

by hawkeyenation on Sep 13, 2007 9:44 AM CDT reply actions  

even better...
...was hearing the entire 9th inning.  After the first batter hit the bag and reached, then the triple, Ron was almost despondent.  "Why us?" he said, with his usual "Jeez" thrown in.  It was wonderful to hear the complete elation when we turned the double-play, and Ron did comment in the wrap up that he and Pat needed to go get some drinks.
"We tried to set up a double play, and the shortstop doesn't play in the bullpen." Lou Piniella, July 4, 2007, discussing Young's GS

by gp1966 on Sep 13, 2007 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Is that online?
I would like to listen to it over my lunch break. I always love when you are watching the game or getting the gamecast or something and you know something big is going to happen before it comes over the radio (because of the delay). My favorite one still is the home run Aramis hit to end that Brewers game. I foget where I was watching it (computer or TV) but I ran to get the radio on just in time to hear Pat and Ron go insane.

Off topic, but what do you think Pat and Ron actually drink? It's always a fun game.

by hawkeyenation on Sep 13, 2007 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

not sure if it's online
If you hunt around you may find it.  I'd bet Ron is a hard liquor straight up drinker, not sure about Pat. He strikes me as a pretty keep to himself guy after the games.  Last year we went to the games in Cleveland, and stayed in the team hotel.  We stopped in the bar at the end of the night each night, and saw Ron and a good number of the players, but never saw Pat.
"We tried to set up a double play, and the shortstop doesn't play in the bullpen." Lou Piniella, July 4, 2007, discussing Young's GS

by gp1966 on Sep 13, 2007 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ronnie is a diabetic
so I doubt he drinks...
"When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches."- Ron Santo

by BigJohnAZ on Sep 13, 2007 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

He doesn't
For those who don't know Ronnie, he's been a type 1 diabetic since age 18, when about he first came up with the Cubs in 1960.

Diabetes was rather unknown then - unlike now - and I believe Ronnie played a good portion of his career keeping this to himself.

Recently, we've all heard of his major struggles with various health issues, mostly stemming from diabetes, and including the loss of both legs just below each knee.

Ron Santo is an inspiration for those folks struggling with their health and feeling of hopelessness.

Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 13, 2007 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's true
Didn't mean to get into all this stuff, I was just trying to have some fun with their comment about needing a drink. That said, I see Pat as a Bud Heavy kind of guy, enjoying it while of course eating all the peanuts at the bar.

by hawkeyenation on Sep 13, 2007 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's fine...
...it's OK to ask or reference. I didn't take it as any kind of slam.

Ronnie means a lot to me as I'm sure he does to others.

Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 13, 2007 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

For sure
You have to admire a man that has gone through so much and done so much charity work. The broadcasts certainly wouldn't be the same with out him and I'm sure scores of lives wouldn't be the same without his fundraising efforts.

by hawkeyenation on Sep 13, 2007 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Excellent, thanks!
ESPN radio was re-playing the final outs from yesterday during their SportsCentre updates and during Mike-and-Mike in the morning. That was classic Santo! IMHO it was on the same order as the infamous 9-23-98 yell at County Stadium.
Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 13, 2007 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

re: Online call
Thanks for posting this. For some reason, I never think to listen to the archived audio from previous games. I just fast forwarded to the bottom of the ninth to hear Pat & Ron's call. Classic stuff.

I don't care what anyone says. Ron Santo is fantastic at what he does. He is the voice of every Cub fan's soul.

Carlos Marmol, you complete me.

by daver on Sep 13, 2007 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hmmm
An inarticulate crazy old man is the voice of my soul?  Kind of puts things in perspective..

by cubsbak on Sep 13, 2007 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's a good analogy
You do (and we all do) follow a team that has broken hearts for the last 99 years. You just have to embrace the crazy old person inside you.

by hawkeyenation on Sep 13, 2007 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Starts around 3:19
In case anyone else is wondering

by MattStratton on Sep 13, 2007 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

I am astounded that this team is in first place
considering that they are playing solid 0.500 ball. Really, we should be counting our blessings, all things considered.

When will the late-season surge finally come and put them over the damn Brewers once and for all? As a potential playoff team should they not be pounding last-place teams like the Astros into submission?

by JFCubFan on Sep 13, 2007 9:47 AM CDT reply actions  

Foul Ball
I was at the game last night and sat on the second row down the 3rd base line. A kid in the front row caught a foul ball the Soriano grounded our way (I think in the fifth inning). Anyways, he let me have a look at it and the ball had 3 autographs on it. They all looked to be the done at the same time and were a little faded. One was unmistakably Larry Bowa and another was Jamie Moayer. The other I couldn't make out. I've never caught a ball at a MLB game before but I gotta think it's pretty rare to catch one with 3 autographs. I offered the kid $20 for the ball but he wanted $30.
"You know what? You want a job? Go out and earn one." Sweet Lou

by Kyle Turney on Sep 13, 2007 9:56 AM CDT reply actions  

Lou
They had the camera on him after the game.  If you can read lips, he can sure swear with the best of them.  Gotta love his passion for the game.
Distracted. That's a funny word. I wonder if anyone ever gets tracted.

by CyberCyclist on Sep 13, 2007 10:03 AM CDT reply actions  

I thought it was great
You always hear managers say "That was a big win" or something along those lines, but you hardly ever see one excited like the players are. It was refreshing.

by hawkeyenation on Sep 13, 2007 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Definitely
It was great :)

After all the years of playing and managing, he still lives and dies with his team and still has that fire.

Distracted. That's a funny word. I wonder if anyone ever gets tracted.

by CyberCyclist on Sep 13, 2007 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

He clearly said
"f***ing center fielder!" My guess is he was upset at Pie trying to make a superman play to get the guy at the plate instead of just getting to the ball and holding Lamb to a double.

Either way, it was a nice win.

Still have VERY little confidence in Dempster. At this point, I think it would behoove Lou to switch Howry and Dempster's spots, and give Marmol one or two save opportunities down the stretch.

by SouthsideCub on Sep 13, 2007 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

NO confidence in Dempster
 Barely got a way with blowing another Save and to those of you who are saying that hop off first was bad luck (which it certainly was) but that's the type of things (errors) that can happen when you have a closer who pitches to contact and is prone to BB's. I've been screaming fow awhile now the importance of a closer who can get his way out of trouble via the K, but noone wasnts to listen (denial) and keep making excuses to support why Dempster should be the closer.

 When this board goes awol on Dempster in the very near future, I will be here to remind you all and to say "I told you so". That you can be sure of.

by lemon20pie on Sep 13, 2007 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think
We can always be sure of you taking an opportunity to say "I told you" when given the chance. :)
One of Us!One Of Us!

by HerrProf on Sep 13, 2007 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well you think negatively about everything
sooner or later you will be right and thus have the oppurtunity to say, "I told you so" like the mature person I'm sure you are
"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Sep 13, 2007 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Don't waste your time...
...or it will result in name-calling.
Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 13, 2007 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Clarification
 Contrary to what some may believe, I am not negative on everything. Just the Cubs. 99 years may have something to do with that.

 There are positives for this organization, but there are many here who have that covered. I feel that I have to be the Cub fan who needs to point out the "other" things that need to be pointed out, to raise awareness.

 If you continue to have the mentality of "oh well, we'll get them tomorrow" or sees the glass as "half full", then it's easy to let blatant weaknesses slide and look past and continue to make excuses for.

 Current players I feel the need to "raise awarenss" about mainly but not limited to:

 Dempster
 Pie
 Wuertz
 Ohman
 Gallagher

 

by lemon20pie on Sep 13, 2007 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Don't think you have to point
things out to many folks here. My guess is there's lots of others here that are just as knowledgable as you are about the team; though this may come as a surprise to you.

'Getting them tomorrow' comments are NOT out of line when there are 18 games left and a 1 game difference in the standings. Deal with it!

And blatant weaknesses? What is that about? These guys are not always in clutch situations. 2 of them are kids, 2 others are still learning. I'll get to Dempster now.

And before you can start with the 'someone else should close', think of the options that have to be considered first.

There was one guy on here last week promoting Marmol closing now, right now, every chance there is. But he failed to realize - and still does by my account - who would cover Marmol's duty if he went into the closers role.

It's easy to arm-chair GM and manage but not having an appropriate risk mitigation plan in place only pushes the problem from one area to another.

Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 13, 2007 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Can I get an Amen?!!?
AMEN!!!
"If you were a hotdog, would you eat yourself? I know I would!!!"

by TheRiot4Life on Sep 13, 2007 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

No it wasn't you...
...it was someone else challenging the rest of us - kind of like you are now - to come around and see his way.

When I countered with my comments, he suddenly went silent.

Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 13, 2007 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

What are you doing
here? You wrote this team off the other night and said you weren't coming back til next year. Well, it's not next year yet. Don't make promises you can't keep.
Shawn Johnson, Des Moines, IA, worlds greatest gymnast. 2007 All Around World Champ. GO SHAWN!!!!

by sue369 on Sep 13, 2007 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes you certainly were the other day
saying the season was over was very 'voice of reason'.

Thanks for coming back though, no one else here provides any voice of reason at all...

by IllinoisCubs on Sep 13, 2007 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yup, one game and
a game back after a loss, with 18 games remaining, the season is over.

Yes, any voice of reason would argue the season is over.

That logic and 6 bits will get you a cup of coffee.

Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 13, 2007 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh don't get me wrong
  The season is over. THis team, if it somehow miraculously can survive it's daily blunders and sloppy and unfundamental play and makes the playoffs, it will not win the world series. It simply isn't good enough. So I will continue to be the voice of reason here.

 No world Series win = unsuccessful season to me. I will not be happy and invest anything emotionally into this organization until I believe they have a good enough team to win the whole kit and kaboodle with. The last time this team made the playoffs, it actually set the organization back, if any of you recall.

 I'll continue to look at the big picture and you can continue to think Dempster is a functional closer.

by lemon20pie on Sep 13, 2007 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Tell me Dear Watson
How did the Cardinals win last year against the Tigers?

by IllinoisCubs on Sep 13, 2007 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think you just separated your shoulder
patting yourself on the back as the 'voice of reason'.

Who annointed you that honor?

OK, Mr. GM & manager, who is your closer? AND BEFORE you slam me with an answer, be prepared to tell all of us how your ENTIRE pitching staff re-aligns with that change.

As for the season is over, there is still 17 games left and THEY ARE TIED FOR FIRST PLACE.

Making the playoff in 2003 did not set them back. Not preparing properly enough for 2004 set them back.

Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 13, 2007 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good job, troops
Putting lemon in his place.

Guys like him say stuff like that because, in the long term, they're often correct. (That's because only one team can win the WS, for example.) That doesn't mean they're right, if you get the distinction.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 13, 2007 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'll correct myself on the last paragraph
Not preparing for 2005/2006 set them back, not 2004. The team was pretty decent going into 2004.

In 2004 they were coming off the NLCS appearance. Wood and Prior were hot, Z was coming on and Maddog was signed.

They simply collapsed, losing 7 of 9 late in the season to blow the wild card.

Hell if you believe in curses you can even blame the SI cover one issue proclaiming the Cubs will win the 2004 World Series.

Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 13, 2007 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Go ahead and be miserable
and others will go ahead and be happy.  To each his own.  The problem is you are trying to get other people to feel miserable, while the others are trying to get people to be happy.  I rather be happy, so I hope you won't mind if I litesn to the happy folks.  And if you do mind, well whatever it is just another thing for you to be miserable about.

by californiachicagoan on Sep 13, 2007 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Reason?
I think you should just go ahead and change your user name to Killjoy and be done with it.
Distracted. That's a funny word. I wonder if anyone ever gets tracted.

by CyberCyclist on Sep 13, 2007 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

With travel unfairness wonder if Piniella's lineup
will change tonight? Theriot was supposed to sit, does he sit him tonight? Does he sit D-Lee and play Ward at 1B and possibly Kendall or DeRosa?

Bullpen has used Howry & Dempster two nights and I wonder if Lou sits those two and has Marmol as the closer with Wuertz as the fireman?

Milw-09-23-98--Brown in for defense--bases loaded--flyball--HE DROPPED THE BALL!!!NO NO NO, cubs lose 8-7

by Ivy Walls on Sep 13, 2007 10:07 AM CDT reply actions  

does that mean
Weurtz gets fired on? If not, then I don't like your plan. I'd rather put Eyre in instead and Marmol to close.

Howry only threw 13 pitches but did give up 3 hits. I wouldnt go against giving both he and Dempster a day off.

"We're going to turn this team around 360 degrees." -Jason Kidd

by tony412 on Sep 13, 2007 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

You do realize that Wuertz is second in MLB
In percentage of inherited runners scored, right?  He's second only to Marmol of course.

by IllinoisCubs on Sep 13, 2007 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Where does he stand
in percentage of leadoff walks issued.

by cubsbak on Sep 13, 2007 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't know
Doesn't really matter if you use him properly now does it?

Wuertz is the secondary fire man on this team.  When Lou brings him into a game at the start of the inning, I take a hold of something to keep my blood pressure down.

Complaining about his leadoff walks is like complaining about Theriot's lack of power.  He adds to the team in other ways.  It's Pinella's fault if he continues to misuse Wuertz.

by IllinoisCubs on Sep 13, 2007 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

The point
of course is that it's very limiting to have a reliever in your bullpen who's incapable of starting an inning without issuing a leadoff walk.  There are certain points in a game (i.e. extra innings, certain people in the 'pen are unavailable, etc.) where it's necessary for him to enter a game at the start of an inning.  

by cubsbak on Sep 13, 2007 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

although tangential, i cant reisit.
The point of course is that it's very limiting to have a reliever in your bullpen who's incapable of starting an inning without issuing a leadoff walk.

you make a comment like this yet you advocate soriano remaining in the 1-hole with all of his inadequacies!?

interesting.

"If you'da been thinkin you wouldn't 'a thought that." ~~ "Squints" Palledorous

by rm463 on Sep 13, 2007 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

edit
reisit = resist
"If you'da been thinkin you wouldn't 'a thought that." ~~ "Squints" Palledorous

by rm463 on Sep 13, 2007 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

No inconsistency whatsoever
I support using both players in situations in which they're most effective.  For Soriano it's batting first.  For Wuertz it's entering a game in the middle of an inning.  My point was that it's not always possible to use Wuertz in those types of situations due to circumstances that arise in the bullpen.  That's not the case with Soriano.  He performs best in the leadoff spot so that's where he should stay.

by cubsbak on Sep 13, 2007 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

we'll have to...
...disagree on where soriano is most effective.

point taken on wuertz.

btw, any response to this?

you posted:

But OPS is still the best measure of a hitter's effectiveness since it doesn't depend on where you hit in the lineup and by that standard he belongs in the leadoff spot.

my response:

i fail to see what component of ops would lend itself to the belief that soriano is better suited to leadoff as opposed to 5th.

"If you'da been thinkin you wouldn't 'a thought that." ~~ "Squints" Palledorous

by rm463 on Sep 13, 2007 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

IMHO
OBP is the best measure of a leadoff/speed guy.
OPS is best suited for power guys.
Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 13, 2007 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

For his career
his OPS is higher in the leadoff spot than batting 5th:  .883 vs. .825.

by cubsbak on Sep 13, 2007 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

well...
...being that ops is obp coupled with slg and soriano has never been a real high obp guy, wouldn't it make sense to use him where is slg is most productive?

the answer to that is yes, in the 5-hole, where ideally, he will be coming to bat with more runners on base thus maximizing his slg!

his ops, in no way, translates to he being more useful leading off.

"If you'da been thinkin you wouldn't 'a thought that." ~~ "Squints" Palledorous

by rm463 on Sep 13, 2007 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Both his
slugging AND his OBP are higher in the leadoff spot (roughly 30 points each).  Simply put, he's a better hitter when he hits leadoff.  

by cubsbak on Sep 13, 2007 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's not significant.
It's unfair to compare the numbers when he hits lower in the order because he has 4 or more AB leading off. If you adjust the numbers, the difference is not that striking, plus he would get more RBI's, which is what a power hitter is supposed to focus on. That's why I don't see Soriano leading off next year.

by Fraggin Judge on Sep 13, 2007 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

OBP and SLG
aren't dependent on the number of AB's you get in a game so I don't know what you're talking about when you say "adjust the numbers".

by cubsbak on Sep 13, 2007 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

The samples are too disparate.
Example: 1 HR in one at bat gives you a higher OPS than when I hit 1 in 4 AB. That doesn't mean you're a better hitter.

Plus, again, RBI's are more important for a guy like Soriano. He'd get more RBI chances batting lower in the order, and in Higgy's words, make the team (Not necessarily Soriano himself) better. Plus, a difference of 30 points or so in OPS is not that significant.

This is not about Soriano doing better. It's about the Cubs doing better and scoring more runs.

by Fraggin Judge on Sep 13, 2007 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

I disagree
with your argument about the samples being too disparate.  The sample sizes over the course of his career are large enough where we can draw some conclusions.

As I said, any hitter will get more RBI chances if you put them in the 5th spot.  I think the team is better off when Soriano is hitting at his best.  Historically he's hit his best when batting leadoff.

by cubsbak on Sep 13, 2007 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

The samples are large but too dissimilar.
You have to adjust and project. You can't compare at face value what a player does in 1,000 AB, for example, with what he did in 200 AB.

by Fraggin Judge on Sep 13, 2007 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

We're talking
about 583 AB's hitting 5th in his career.  It's impossible to "adjust and project" OBP and SLG.  They're averages.

by cubsbak on Sep 13, 2007 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Question...
Is the team better?  He may be a better hitter but is the team better when he hits leadoff?

For the record i take no stance either way, this is simply a question.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Sep 13, 2007 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think
the team is better when Soriano's at his best.  And right now he's at his best when he's hitting leadoff.  

by cubsbak on Sep 13, 2007 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

for argument's sake...
...let's say that he is a better hitter leading off, but will he not be more productive, insofar as driving in runs is concerned, if he were to bat 5th?
"If you'da been thinkin you wouldn't 'a thought that." ~~ "Squints" Palledorous

by rm463 on Sep 13, 2007 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

ANY
hitter would drive in more runs when they bat fifth versus leadoff.  

by cubsbak on Sep 13, 2007 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

true...
...but soriano, because of his ability to hit hr's,  would take more advantage of batting 5th than a guy like theriot.
"If you'da been thinkin you wouldn't 'a thought that." ~~ "Squints" Palledorous

by rm463 on Sep 13, 2007 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

But if
he hits fewer homers and gets on base fewer times batting fifth it's not worth it in my opinion.  He does his most damage batting leadoff.  

by cubsbak on Sep 13, 2007 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

YES
This is what I'm saying!! :)
"If you were a hotdog, would you eat yourself? I know I would!!!"

by TheRiot4Life on Sep 13, 2007 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

My point exactly.
That's why our better power hitter shouldn't lead off. Less RBI's mean less runs, which in turn, mean less wins per season. If we are left out of the playoffs because we failed to win a couple of more games by one run, we'll see if the team was better off with Soriano leading off.

by Fraggin Judge on Sep 13, 2007 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nonsense
"If we are left out of the playoffs because we failed to win a couple of more games by one run, we'll see if the team was better off with Soriano leading off."

Utter nonsense.

by cubsbak on Sep 13, 2007 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Don't insult me.
I don't insult you. Our disagreement, valid and honest, is that you value OBP and its derivative (OPS) more than RBI's. I don't, when we are talking about a power hitter. To me the value of a power hitter is how many runs he drives in, not how much he is on base.

by Fraggin Judge on Sep 13, 2007 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

I didn't insult you
but your statement that this can be determined by the number of 1-run games the Cubs lose is pure nonsense.

by cubsbak on Sep 13, 2007 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

that is the value of a power hitter, unless....
his name is Alfonso Soriano and he, for some odd reason, becomes far less of a power hitter when batting down in the order...I would argue that if you put him lower in the order he may get more RBI CHANCES, but actually less RBIs because he doesn't hit as well in the 5-hole....I think that's what the Soriano-for-leadoff contingent is trying to say....
"If you were a hotdog, would you eat yourself? I know I would!!!"

by TheRiot4Life on Sep 13, 2007 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

And I'm saying...
that the argument is based in an oranges and apples comparison. The numbers have to be adjusted. If you do so, he gets 10 or so more RBI's per season. I posted the numbers yesterday. That turns a few one run losses into victories, and we've had enough of those defeats this year.

by Fraggin Judge on Sep 13, 2007 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Let's try this again
ANY hitter will have more RBI's hitting 5th instead of leadoff.  You can't just "project" additional RBI's and then say the Cubs would've won all these 1-run games.  That's silly.

by cubsbak on Sep 13, 2007 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Then, the pythagorean projection...
of wins based on runs scored by a team would be silly too.

You win games by scoring runs, my friend, not by being left stranded on base.

by Fraggin Judge on Sep 13, 2007 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

okay, I understand what you're saying, but...
in what way did you "adjust" the numbers?  I'm just curious of the calculations that you did to make it more "similar."
"If you were a hotdog, would you eat yourself? I know I would!!!"

by TheRiot4Life on Sep 13, 2007 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Statisticians do that.
All I'm saying is that Soriano has four times the number of AB leading off in his career than hiting 3rd or 5th in the order. Since the hitting approach batting in each of those positions is different you cannot make an exact prediction of what he would do, but considering that he would have more chances to drive runners if he were hitting in a lower spot, a conservative number would be the RBI's he has in each one of those spots multiplied by 4. That gives you about 10 more RBI's per year. I think that's a conservative number, and of course, it depends also on what the players hiting before Soriano do.

But this is no mystery. It's why power hitters hit clean up or around that spot while those players with high on base percentages hit higher in the order. The latter get on base, the power hitter drives them home. Considering the difficulties the Cubs have had scoring runs I believe that Soriano has more value as an RBI man.

Others value his speed on the bases more. I understand and respect their opinion but disagree, especially this season with all the leg injuries Soriano had.

by Fraggin Judge on Sep 13, 2007 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

no he won't
He won't be more productive because he doesn't hit as well down in the order.  He's got some psychological block.  Take a look at his numbers if everyone's so intense on this and you'll see, he simply hits better in the leadoff spot, so that's where he's most effective and/or productive.  So that's where Lou should use him, maybe next spring they can tinker, not now.
"If you were a hotdog, would you eat yourself? I know I would!!!"

by TheRiot4Life on Sep 13, 2007 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

not only that, but...
he's got speed. Who are you going to put in the #1 spot in place of him? The Riot? He's done well there, no doubt. BUT if you ask any ML scout, they'll tell you the difference between Soriano in the leadoff spot and The Riot is that pitchers are intimidated by the idea of Soriano getting on base first. They know the damage he can do. They don't feel that way about The Riot, even in the leadoff spot.
Missing Da Cubbies from NYC!

by dacubsfan76 on Sep 13, 2007 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Soriano is more valuable as...
a power hitter than as a runner. It's more important that he drive runs in, not that he gets from 1st to 3rd and stays there. The Cubs need a speedy lead off man. I hope they get or develop that hitter in the off season.

by Fraggin Judge on Sep 13, 2007 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Why is
scoring runs less valuable than driving them in?

by cubsbak on Sep 13, 2007 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's more important for a power hitter.
That's his job. Don't take my words out of context, please.

by Fraggin Judge on Sep 13, 2007 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

IMHO, this is what the cubs need to do about this
leave him in the leadoff spot and find stronger hitters for the bottom of the order.
Missing Da Cubbies from NYC!

by dacubsfan76 on Sep 13, 2007 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep
They're conveniently ignoring that Soriano gets more run-scoring opportunities hitting leadoff than he would batting 5th (in part because he gets extra AB's and in part because he's on base in front of run-producers).  Having Soriano causing havoc on the bases in front of run producers creates run-scoring opportunities that will be lost if he's hitting 5th.

by cubsbak on Sep 13, 2007 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

More scoring opportunities...
for Soriano, not for the team. I rather see him hit a HR with runners on base than solo. The first would be more productive.

by Fraggin Judge on Sep 13, 2007 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

If that is so
then as far as I'm concerned, he can go to a half house for head cases and stay there. His job is to hit where he can do the most for the team, not for himself. If he has a mental block, then the Cubs are really cursed with such a weirdo as their marquee player.

Of course, I don't buy the mental block thing. He is just an immature, selfish player who needs to learn. It's up to the coaches and Lou to teach him.

by Fraggin Judge on Sep 13, 2007 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly
Plus he'd have a lot of additional RBI's per season. That equals several more wins. I posted the numbers yesterday. I won't again. You can look the post by yourself. But to summarize, Soriano has batted about 4 more times in his career as leadoff than 3rd or 5th in the batting order. If he had hit as much 3rd or 5th he would have more RBI's and his OPS or average wouldn't suffer much. The lower average would be OK for an RBI power hiter. That's a good trade off.

Soriano has mostly led off because he was in the AL (where you can put good hitters in the 8th and 9th spots). In the NL, with the pitcher hitting, leading off reduces the number of RBI's he can get. That's why I think we may see him hitting lower in the order next year. I would have done it when he came back from his injury, though. They won't do it this late in the season.

But to say he has been more successful leading off and therefore he should remain doing so is misleading. He has been more successful because mostly, leading off is all he's done before. But the difference in numbers is not dramatic, as I see it. Others disagree. That's their right.

by Fraggin Judge on Sep 13, 2007 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow...
must not have been a lot of power guys around him.
Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 13, 2007 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

you are wrong
You can always control when Wuertz comes into a game.  If you don't want him to come into a game starting the inning... DON'T!  Have another guy go 1.1 inning or whatever.  It's not like he gives up a lead off walk every time anyway.

Soriano only leads off once.  Any other time he could come up somewhere else.

by IllinoisCubs on Sep 13, 2007 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Or could lead off again.
Depends who makes the last out in the inning prior to his AB. And in the NL, with the pitcher hitting, you try to have the pitcher end the inning by throwing around the guy behind him with 2 outs.

by Fraggin Judge on Sep 13, 2007 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not totally.
Example: 2nd inning, 2 outs, 8th hitter up. You walk him, the pitcher makes the last out of the inning. Your lead off hitter ends up leading off the 3rd inning. That's what managers do in the NL. That's why power hitters don't lead off.

by Fraggin Judge on Sep 13, 2007 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think it's a moot point
to imagine Sori moving to #5 this season. However, he is not an elite #1 hitter. And certainly, that's what we're paying $18M to get.

I suspect Lou will move him to the #5 hole next year. And Soriano is a team player who I suspect will smile as he goes through the learning process.

His OBP this year is .329. That's not good enough even with 24HR. I suspect Theriot is next year's leadoff man. Despite fewer AB's he has only 9 fewer runs and RBI. He's also stolen 8 more bases.

The axiom in baseball is to place the guys that get on base ahead of the ones that can hit for power. Piniella is no fool. Soriano isn't suited for the leadoff spot and that will most likely change next year.

Right now every pitch and every play must be the most important of your career. Act like it or sit down.

by tharr on Sep 13, 2007 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree.
Lead off will be Theriot or, probably, a new guy.

by Fraggin Judge on Sep 13, 2007 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I look forward to that project
when I make 3 separate trips to AZ between end Feb and end March...

Damn I love Spring Training!

Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 13, 2007 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's a moot point this season
simply because it isn't going to happen this year.
Right now every pitch and every play must be the most important of your career. Act like it or sit down.

by tharr on Sep 13, 2007 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

This Steve Trachsel start
could be like the one journeyman Shawn (t)Estes pitched in September, 2003, when the stubborn ol' mule manager gave him another shot.

Estes had done nothing for the team that year, and was eventually left off the playoff roster, but in a huge game - he came through.

It sure would be nice if the old man Trachsel could pitch one more gem in his career. For this Cubs team.

It is SEPTEMBER, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Sep 13, 2007 11:12 AM CDT reply actions  

I hope your Right!
I would take 6 innings of quality pitching tonite from the Human Rain Delay, I think this offense is ready to score some runs in that little juice box down in Houston.  If we can get a big lead then we can pitch Piggy, Hart, Erye, but please NO OH-MAN.

by BigZ 4 Cy on Sep 13, 2007 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

That was a great game by Estes
what did he throw like 120 pitches after not pitching for weeks?
This is Harry Carray, goodbye from Wrigley Field and So Long Everybody.

by mrcubsfan on Sep 13, 2007 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

misprint I meant fireman
The fireman is the guy who gets out of jams from the starter or middle reliever when the game is at play. Marmol has been the absolute best at this in the stat inherented runners stranded. Wuertz has been very good close to 90%, it makes for a heckeva tandem.

The other roles in a relief core are LOOGY (lefty one out guy), late inning set up, middle reliever, mopup, closer and long reliever/swing.

Wood is a middle reliever although has done set, Eyre is emerging as the LOOGY, which was Ohman but he has emerged ineffective, both are crap shoots now, Howry is the set up and Marmol the fireman along with Wuertz being fireman #2.

Next year I can see the Cubs moving Dempster to a starting position and Marmol to a closer and keeping Wood, Wuertz and Howry. They will have to find a new left hander as contracts force them to keep Eyre, Hart might be interesting as there is some 99mPH guy in A-ball along with the Shark.

Milw-09-23-98--Brown in for defense--bases loaded--flyball--HE DROPPED THE BALL!!!NO NO NO, cubs lose 8-7

by Ivy Walls on Sep 13, 2007 11:18 AM CDT reply actions  

God, i hope they seriously
don't consider moving Demp to a starting role.  That  experiment was tried and failed.  

by jjmarie30 on Sep 13, 2007 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Harang starting against the Cards
One of those rare moments when I'm excited Harang is starting.

by vegascubsfan on Sep 13, 2007 11:19 AM CDT reply actions  

I picked the wrong day to
to stop sniffing glue and to forget to take my blood pressure pills. Seriously I forgot yesterday, must have been a sign. I wish I could say that I actually  SAW the 9th inning live but as usual I was too nervous so I channel surf & check the ESPN ticker and it is now 3-2, I look at the game and see the runner on 3rd with no outs. After that just the ticker. I see the game is over ( game moves from in progress on the ticker) I seriously think they lost. Ticker comes round and I see the final and go back to WGN for the recap. I know this is cowardly but I ALWAYS do this. I look at the ground WHEN I AM AT THE GAMES and it gets scary( or read a paper). I can't help myself. If I didn't I might have had a heart attack by now and my insurance is not that good. I salute you brave souls who watched it live and look forward to a lot of good reading and staring in the next 3 weeks ( especially considering I will be at six of the last nine games).
"It's the Cubbies. There's always a vibe. It's the greatest vibe in baseball." Greg Maddux on Cub fan's optimism even after the 06 debacle.

by jessica on Sep 13, 2007 11:20 AM CDT reply actions  

lmao...
...my wife couldn't take it either. it was fairly amusing. after the triple she decided to hide under a blanket for the next batter. when the count got to 3 and 2, she had to leave the room (went to the basement to change laundry).

she didn't come back upstairs until she heard me clap after the double play.

i swear that this team is taking years off of my life... but i suppose that i should have known that after watching mitch williams as a kid...

by bobby h on Sep 13, 2007 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, don't surf
The way to get over it is to go through it, if that makes sense.

Wait until the playoffs, it gets better. 1984 knocked the wind out of me; F----- Steve Garvey!

2003 turned me gray. This year it will all fall out.

Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 13, 2007 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

The 84 playoffs
I was living in LA at the time  and I had tickets to the WS. After
game 5 I did the only thing I could and went to a double feature
of strange old movies ( I remember it was PORTRAIT OF JENNY &
GARDEN OF ALLAH but the films are a blur). I got back home to a TON of concerned phone calls from family and friends afraid
I had done something "stupid".
"It's the Cubbies. There's always a vibe. It's the greatest vibe in baseball." Greg Maddux on Cub fan's optimism even after the 06 debacle.

by jessica on Sep 13, 2007 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Shawn Estes
I remember that game clearly and I remember listening to it on a radio at a pizza joint I worked in for abot a week only.

I thought he threw like 8 shutout innings in a must win game.

TONIGHT, bring out the lumber Im calling 3 homers for the Cubs and a convincing win, if not I will be drinking Hacker Schorr so that will soften the blow.

Hey.....Cubs win!!!

by Hammer on Sep 13, 2007 11:26 AM CDT reply actions  

Actually, he through 9!!! shutout
innings.  

http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/2003/B09240CIN2003.htm

No way on earth Trax does that....heck I'll take 2 earned runs over 5 innings from him.  It might be enough.

by Neifi Puppy on Sep 13, 2007 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

omg!
9 INNINGS?!

THAT IS AMAZING...

All the right buttons pushed by the former manager, except Guthrie, and Veres, in the NLCS.

And..."lack" of button pushing.

It is SEPTEMBER, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Sep 13, 2007 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yup....
CG shutout in Cincy...
Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 13, 2007 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

First Timer in Agony
After trips the last three years to the confines and annually witnessing my seven month bout with what can only be diagnosed as a young man's baseball-induced ulceritis, my wife finally climbed on board after last night's events.  We both screamed as loud and inaudible as Len when Riot fired that ball in dlee's glove.  To which, once we had both barely regained our breaths but clearly not our sanity, she said, "I can't believe you guys have been living through this for 99 years."

Well, needless to say its great to have her on board, especially because the only reason she came around originally (she's from columbus, oh) is bceasue it gave her something to talk about with her old roommate who dates the d-ray's Brendan Harris, who is good friends with Demp.

Of course, I always knew there was potential with her when she walked by the tv one summer day in '05 and sighed "Ugh! Why do they keep putting Glendon Rusch out there. He sucks!

Welcome aboard, hun.  Can't wait to enjoy the next 2 1/2weeks and 40 years with you and the boys in blue.

by The Ryno and I Know on Sep 13, 2007 11:29 AM CDT reply actions  

exhausted
I seriously think that last night game may of took a year off my life and I've found that I cannot continue to watch the games with my girlfriend, its putting too much stress on her to watch me go through the ups and the downs.

by Les Lancaster on Sep 13, 2007 11:51 AM CDT reply actions  

Take up smoking....
And chain smoke while you watch the game.  Nothing beats it, and it will take several years off your life.

by adam316 on Sep 13, 2007 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

wait until the playoffs
I got about half my gray hair in those 4-5 weeks between the end of the regular season and the playoffs.

I'm already getting my roll of firecrackers ready for a division winning celebration. It'll be a wheel of them totaling more than 15,000 crackers. Should last about 10 minutes.

Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 13, 2007 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just another day in the life...
of a Cubs fan. That MLB/Mastercard commercial that makes reference to "too many tears" with the visual of the elderly man wearing a Cubs cap isn't just Hollywood...it's reality.

Unfortunately, the commercial then takes the wrong turn by adding the Red Sox to the scene. Perhaps the producers forgot that story line -- is over.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Sep 13, 2007 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Da Curse
I never believed it but after 50 ++ years of watchin Da Cubs .... When that ball hit the
bag .... I thought maybe maybe............
Oh well..... I wish I could feel comfortable when I see Ryan walk in to close.

by FlaCub on Sep 13, 2007 11:54 AM CDT reply actions  

I think we need perspective
My girlfriend is a angels fan. With probably one of the best closers in the game, do you think she feels confident? Nope! She HATES him, and curses every time he (rarely) blows it. Is there any closer outside of mariano that anyone feels confident about coming it (and really Yankees fans are always confident).
One of Us!One Of Us!

by HerrProf on Sep 13, 2007 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

I was monitoring the game on Gameday...
...because my wife had commandeered the TV. When the game-ending DP went down, all I saw was something along the lines of "Ball in play, out(s)."

I was sure it was either a sac fly or a fielder's choice scoring the run, but then -- hark! -- three outs were indicated at the top of the screen. And then -- lo and behold! -- a description of the play appeared. And I could tell just by reading that description that something truly magical had occurred.

Ah, the joys of baseball in the 21st Century.

Carlos Marmol, you complete me.

by daver on Sep 13, 2007 12:04 PM CDT reply actions  

Ouch...
Your wife commandeered the TV during a very important game in a Cubs playoff run.  Sorry buddy, but we now know exactly who wears the pants.

by adam316 on Sep 13, 2007 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

re: He should buy his own pants
To this, I can only quote rock godz Flight of the Conchords and say, "You know you're not in high finance, considering secondhand underpants."
Carlos Marmol, you complete me.

by daver on Sep 13, 2007 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

re: Buy yourself
Y'know, if/when the Cubs make the playoffs, I may seriously consider renting one. Or maybe I'll just get MLB.TV.
Carlos Marmol, you complete me.

by daver on Sep 13, 2007 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Its time.
Time for the Cubs to take control of the momentum and put some pressure on the Brewers.  The Brewers are idle and will get to watch the Cubs tonight and cannot do anything today to impact the standings.  A pounding of the Astros is in order to apply the pressure.  

This may make me captian obvious to some, but tonight will either panic or placate.

While I'm weary of the Brewers applying pressure to the Cubs, I love seeing the standings and seeing 1st place in September.

by N Oakley on Sep 13, 2007 12:17 PM CDT reply actions  

Would Jack have said...
Dempster had to perform a boardinghouse reach to complete the DP??

(Dempster really didn't have to perform this feat, but Jack loved that phrase and nobody under the age of 40 understands it, so I just had to throw it in.)

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Sep 13, 2007 12:46 PM CDT reply actions  

I may have an idea of what that meant...
and I'm under 40... one could use his imagination of the old, old days though to figure that one out :)
Missing Da Cubbies from NYC!

by dacubsfan76 on Sep 13, 2007 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Don't be lazy...
just type the phrase into google.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Sep 13, 2007 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not even necessary to key it into Google...
All you have to do is highlight it and right-click to get the Google option in a context menu.  Works in Firefox, anyway.

by MN exile on Sep 13, 2007 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Reds Vs Cards
Reds have had 5 hits and 5 walks thru 5 and still ZERO runs. The Cards meanwhile have had 1 hit (zero walks) and 1 run to show for it.
"We're going to turn this team around 360 degrees." -Jason Kidd

by tony412 on Sep 13, 2007 12:49 PM CDT reply actions  

i don't know which is worse
Marty Brenneman's complete lack of enthusiasm in his delivery, or his annoying, lucky sperm club son.

by SouthsideCub on Sep 13, 2007 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nice 'club' comment...
...that's funny.

Hey throw Milo Hamilton and Hawk Harrelson into there and let us know how that compares.

Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 13, 2007 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

5-1 Reds
and that should be exit stage left for the Cards season.

by SouthsideCub on Sep 13, 2007 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh boy...
looks like we could catch the Cards on a 7-game losing streak tomorrow. Don't know if that's good or bad.

Boy would I like to see that at 11 games come Sunday evening.

Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 13, 2007 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

If Cards lose...
that only guarantees that LaRussa will look to unleash a beanball war this weekend.

LaRussa is baseball's version of Belichick. They're both very good coaches but very unethical too.

by Fraggin Judge on Sep 13, 2007 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

I hope not
The Cubs simply do not need that shit.

They have to take the higher road and play it straight.

Plenty of opportunities next season.

Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 13, 2007 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Don't count them out just yet...
they just peckered their way back to a 5-3 deficit.
Missing Da Cubbies from NYC!

by dacubsfan76 on Sep 13, 2007 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

nope...(take two)
i meant peckered... those peckers just don't know when to quit their persistent peckering.

{i tried to post this before but not sure if it went thru (i didn't see it come up)}

Missing Da Cubbies from NYC!

by dacubsfan76 on Sep 13, 2007 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's funny...
Didn't even catch that. "peckered"  LMAO...
Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 13, 2007 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Whew!!
Those persistent peckering peckers got their peckers out-peckered!
Missing Da Cubbies from NYC!

by dacubsfan76 on Sep 13, 2007 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Never realized
reason was so vengeful.
"Just because you've had enough/ doesn't mean you wanted too much." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Sep 13, 2007 1:07 PM CDT reply actions  

I love rotoworld's sarcasm
The Cardinals have pushed Adam Wainwright's start back from Thursday to Friday.

He'll face the Cubs this way, and he's still scheduled to make four more starts regardless. Kip Wells will "pitch" Thursday against the Reds.
==========

I love that Kip Wells part

Now that he is back, play Matt Murton!!

by Chanman25 on Sep 13, 2007 1:12 PM CDT reply actions  

Let's go Cincy!!!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Sep 13, 2007 1:14 PM CDT reply actions  

re: Let's go Cincy!!!
Something tells me you'll appreciate knowing that I was eating lunch when I saw this picture.
Carlos Marmol, you complete me.

by daver on Sep 13, 2007 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

He looks like
a retarded half baby/half bear.

by SouthsideCub on Sep 13, 2007 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

re: He looks like
Hey now -- that's an insult to retarded half baby/half bears everywhere!
Carlos Marmol, you complete me.

by daver on Sep 13, 2007 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sweet Loyd Christmas hair!
...and bulge.

sick.

You may run like mays but you hit like $#!%

by cubsirishkillme on Sep 13, 2007 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

How do you DO that?
Santo, how do you post images?

by lancaster99 on Sep 13, 2007 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

I use my special internet...
MAGIC!!!

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Sep 13, 2007 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ruh Roh
If Cards are dead they will play with "nothing to lose"  we saw how that worked out with the pirates last series.

laws of probability say the cards will be due to at least win a couple...here's to the cubs continuing to defy all probability and logic!

You may run like mays but you hit like $#!%

by cubsirishkillme on Sep 13, 2007 1:25 PM CDT reply actions  

Deja Vu 2003 series?
I'd love nothing more than a deja vu 2003 series against the Redbirds, where we swept all 4 games against them (including a doubleheader), on the way to the division championship.
Missing Da Cubbies from NYC!

by dacubsfan76 on Sep 13, 2007 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Close...
We took 4 of 5. It was a 5-game series due to a rain out. Ironically that rained out game was on Mother's Day when Eli Marraro (sp?) broke his leg in RF.

The DH was a day-night and split. The game they lost was when Alfonseca got ejected after the line drive fair/foul ball call.

Sammy won one of the games with a 15th-inning HR. Pujols also made a critical error in LF that day.

That was also the Dusty/LaRussa yap-fest from the dugouts.

Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 13, 2007 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Stand corrected (once again)
at least we took 4 of 5 there....hopefully we'll kick them while they're down and take all 4 this weekend!
Missing Da Cubbies from NYC!

by dacubsfan76 on Sep 13, 2007 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's OK
Only reason I remember is I was at all 5 games...
Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 13, 2007 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Anybody note the story
there were 500 people in Dolphins Stadium for the start of last night's Marlins/Nats game?

That's your two-time World Champion Marlins. I don't even think a new ball park would help. Get that team and the Devil Rays out of Florida. The Sunshine State is fine for Spring Training, but useless anytime else, unless a World Series stops by.

I understand the teams are run by idiots. I know that...but how long can this go on?

Time for out-of-the box thinking....why not Mexico City as a site for an MLB team?

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Sep 13, 2007 1:26 PM CDT reply actions  

how about just contracting
and eliminating a diluted talent pool that includes the like of Ohman and Cedeno :-)
You may run like mays but you hit like $#!%

by cubsirishkillme on Sep 13, 2007 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've said this before
people down south, particularly in Florida, do NOT care about baseball.

Football (professional and particularly college) and Nascar (golf a distant third) are the ONLY sports that matter. Look at the Braves- they've done nothing but win for a decade and a half and are lucky to get 25k people for a game.

Baseball is a northern and california sport. The teams in other areas have no loyal fans.

by SouthsideCub on Sep 13, 2007 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Very true
Pro [team] sports is lower priority.

As for Atl, that is one sorry-ass sports town; yuk!

Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 13, 2007 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

having lived in florida
for a (terrible) year, I have to wholeheartedly agree...the only baseball fans in FL are transplants who still root for their hometown teams.

just look at D-Rays games when they play the yanks or red sox...it is essentially a home game for the yanks or red sox.

You may run like mays but you hit like $#!%

by cubsirishkillme on Sep 13, 2007 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

My point exactly
I went down to Miami for games four and five of the NLCS in 2003, and a radio announcer for the a Miami sports station literally said "people from Miami don't know anything about baseball."

No exagerration. None.

(aside- after game 5 on the way down the escalator, Marlin fans sarcastically joked with me "don't worry, we'll win both against Wood and Prior." joke ended up being on me)

by SouthsideCub on Sep 13, 2007 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

There had to be...
... at least 25,000 Cub fans in Miami for all three of the NLCS games there. At one point when they put extra tickets on sale, they wouldn't sell online to anyone without a South Florida zip code, because they knew Cub fans were buying all the tickets.

That game yesterday -- couldn't have been more than 100 or so people left at the end, which went 12 innings. The TV people were carefully avoiding any stadium wide shots. It was a day game, probably part of the reason.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Sep 13, 2007 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

I wonder
if someone could organize a Cubs trip during the upcoming Marlins series. It sounds like it could very easily be turned into Wrigley South. I'm sure the players would appreciate it.
Tinker to Evers to Chance.

by Matt Allison on Sep 13, 2007 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Or...
they root for the team that has its spring training park next to where they live in the state. It's like the people in Arizona who root for the Cubs and not for the Diamondbacks. The difference in FL is (1) it's football country, and (2) the local teams suck. It's hard to pay to watch a bunch of losers. And if you saw Tampa Bay's last two games, you know what I mean. Real losers!

by Fraggin Judge on Sep 13, 2007 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

A lot of US players are from the south though
and part of the reason why Jackie Robinson in the big leagues was such a big deal was because there were so many southerners in baseball.  

Maybe I have it wrong?

by IllinoisCubs on Sep 13, 2007 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Warm climates
produce alot of the best athletes in all sports...but for some reason it doesn't translate to baseball fans down there.
You may run like mays but you hit like $#!%

by cubsirishkillme on Sep 13, 2007 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Too many transplants down there
not the best environment to breed loyalty to any one team.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Sep 13, 2007 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Swim about 90 miles South
of Tampa and Florida and find the hottest bed of baseball in the world.
"I got mad hits like I was Rod Carew!"

by lostinthevines on Sep 13, 2007 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, not 90 miles from Tampa, but
from The Keys, at least
"I got mad hits like I was Rod Carew!"

by lostinthevines on Sep 13, 2007 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ok
I did what you said and all I see around here are sharks. If I don't survive this, you can't have my world series tickets.
Right now every pitch and every play must be the most important of your career. Act like it or sit down.

by tharr on Sep 13, 2007 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Listening to the Cards/Reds game...
Still 5-3 Reds, Cards batting with man on first. LaRussa just brought in Ankiel* to pinch hit.
Carlos Marmol, you complete me.

by daver on Sep 13, 2007 1:45 PM CDT reply actions  

ROFL
@ ankiel*
Missing Da Cubbies from NYC!

by dacubsfan76 on Sep 13, 2007 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ankiel K's again..
 
Now that he is back, play Matt Murton!!

by Chanman25 on Sep 13, 2007 1:48 PM CDT reply actions  

Have to admit
I am sort of hoping the cards pull it out...but not in a momentum building fashion.

I don't want them to be "DUE" this weekend

You may run like mays but you hit like $#!%

by cubsirishkillme on Sep 13, 2007 1:49 PM CDT reply actions  

re: Have to admit
I know what you mean. The Cards have lost enough games in the past week that I could begrudge them a "mercy win" if it means the Cubs can sweep their asses this weekend.
Carlos Marmol, you complete me.

by daver on Sep 13, 2007 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Best would be...
...for their game to be about a 14-inning one-run loss.  They'd be tired and glum and have a dismal plane ride home, plus their already middling bullpen would be additionally thrashed.

A guy can hope, can't he?

by MN exile on Sep 13, 2007 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah
Although with that team, a strong Pujlos is really all they have.  Rolen is playing hurt, Encarnacion is out (and the fact that he even takes a chunk out of their offense says alot), Edmonds is a shell of him former self, their other OFs and MIs are Triple A roster filler except for Eckstein who is nothing to fear, and their starting rotation is a joke outside of Wainwright and possibly Mulder.  I think if anything, them going on a 11 game losing streak would be the law of averages evening out for them getting so close to first place to begin with.  Does anyone even know who is going to be starting for them on Saturday?  

The Astros could bounce back quick with Berkman, Pence, Lee, Oswalt, Lidge, Patton, and a decent supporting cast.  The Cards on the other hand, they don't really even have prospects except for Ankiel like OFs who hit .250, 25-30 HRs, and K a ton.  The Reds and Pirates have brighter futures too.  Especially if LaRussa retires, the Cards will be Central League fodder for years to come.

by IllinoisCubs on Sep 13, 2007 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

isn't rolen out?
didn;t I hear he is having (had) sugery?
You may run like mays but you hit like $#!%

by cubsirishkillme on Sep 13, 2007 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

You heard correctly
Rolen had season-ending surgery about a week or so ago.
Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 13, 2007 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

yeah sorry
Couple days late on the news I guess.  Thanks for the tip.

Ryan or Branyan at 3B for the Cards all weekend.  A hurt Rolen or those two guys is basically the same thing.

by IllinoisCubs on Sep 13, 2007 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

re: Yeah
"...if LaRussa retires, the Cards will be Central League fodder for years to come."

From your keyboard to the Baseball Gods' ears.

Carlos Marmol, you complete me.

by daver on Sep 13, 2007 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

The almighty Stoney
has commented, that he has heard that LaRussa and Duncan may be going to a new team in 08.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Sep 13, 2007 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

I read about that somewhere earlier in the year
and IF (HUGE IF) that is true, I hope they make their way back to the AL. LaRussa's a smart, smart manager, but I'd much rather see him in the AL where we wouldn't really have to face him and his antics anymore.
Missing Da Cubbies from NYC!

by dacubsfan76 on Sep 13, 2007 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Okay,
I'm finished dumping on Dempster. I really have been piling it on my fellow countryman for the last couple of days. Whether warranted or not. He has closed out a majority of his chances, and all closers have their bad outings...even the great ones.

I do, however, reserve the right to vent at a later date should the situation arise.

IF the Cubs play in October, I may need "the paddles" handy when he's in to shut it down.

Give DeRosa a night off and play Fontenot - I've got a feeling he could do something good against Williams.

It was the Alex Gonzalez error that killed us!

by Hugest Canadian Cubs Fan on Sep 13, 2007 1:55 PM CDT reply actions  

100% agree
DeRo has looked worn out lately.  And maybe Fonte's recent success in his last couple starts  could be the start of a little streak
You may run like mays but you hit like $#!%

by cubsirishkillme on Sep 13, 2007 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

If [when] the Cubs play in October...
...there's more flexibility to the pitching staff.

First there is no such thing as a five-man rotation; hell there sometimes isn't a four-man.

Starters can relieve, relievers are moved around.

Just look at what Josh Beckett did for the fish in '03 against us and the evil empire.

Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 13, 2007 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's funny
that a team that goes from dead last with 96 losses last season to a potential playoff birth/1st place finish this year can be deemed unsuccessful. We all want the Cubbies to finally win it all, but Lemon, your outlook is basically, "If I don't get a miracle, I'll be pissed!"

I don't think the Cubs have the greatest squad this year either. We are a flawed team. But all I asked for this year was for them to be competitive, a realistic goal that, seeing as it's now 9/13, they have achieved. That's a successful season. Not a great season, just successful. But my idea of "successful" seasons changes year to year, as do most of our expectations, much like the team's ability. Next year, I'll expect more, because they'll be in a better position going in than they were this year.

To sit back and say the Cubs will blow it and lose, even if they make the playoffs, is ridiculous, because their chances of winning it all aren't all that great in any given year. Same goes for almost every team in the league. It's easier to bet on them losing than it is on them winning. That's where hope comes into play, and that's where many of us long suffering fans get our patience and ability to take the good with the bad, and sometimes the bad with the bad, too.

"Just because you've had enough/ doesn't mean you wanted too much." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Sep 13, 2007 1:59 PM CDT reply actions  

Great post
Raw percentage says each team has about 3.34% of winning the World Series.   Team strength and other team weaknesses (did the Pirates or Royals have a great shot this year?) might boost some teams up to 7% or so, but that's still a shot in the dark.  Considering we were last place with 96 losses, getting more than 81 wins this season is an accomplishment in itself.  Don't get me wrong, since we are so close and we have better pitching, veteran players, and a better schedule down these two weeks, I'll be pissed as hell if the Cubs don't make the playoffs, but if you told me in April where we would be with two weeks left in the season, I would have to be happy.

by IllinoisCubs on Sep 13, 2007 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

re: Great post
I agree. For me, the bare minimum of what any professional baseball team should accomplish every year is a winning record.

Beyond that, I'm torn between defining a "successful season" as either being in contention in September or actually making the post-season. In any case, by my (perhaps low) standards, any games your team plays in the post-season are gravy.

And a World Series win is the rarest of treats, though it obviously shouldn't be as rare as once every CENTURY or so.

Carlos Marmol, you complete me.

by daver on Sep 13, 2007 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

And once you DO get in the postseason...
... your chances are 1 out of 8, because you can pretty much throw out any regular season records and performances.

Just get in. Not only that, but over a four-week period you only have to go 11-8 to win the whole thing.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Sep 13, 2007 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd feel more reassured
if we could at least win consecutive games. Each time we hope a certain game will propel us to a streak, we fall flat on our face. The mood swings with this team are the largest I can recall. Usually teams have either winning or losing streaks. Since July, it seems every day has been a new streak starting or ending.
Right now every pitch and every play must be the most important of your career. Act like it or sit down.

by tharr on Sep 13, 2007 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

lemon
is the self-annointed 'voice of reason'.
Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 13, 2007 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

What is mis-information?
Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 13, 2007 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

I meant disinformation
Anything against lemon being the voice of reason is disinformation:

"Disinformation is the deliberate dissemination of false information.  In the context of espionage or military intelligence, it is the deliberate spreading of false information to mislead an enemy as to one's position or course of action. It also includes the distortion of true information in such a way as to render it useless."

by IllinoisCubs on Sep 13, 2007 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

You got it...
dead nuts on!
Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 13, 2007 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

i hate biology
i got a crapload of homework for a subject that is boring, serves no purpose to what i want to be, and wastes my time...
Now that he is back, play Matt Murton!!

by Chanman25 on Sep 13, 2007 2:06 PM CDT reply actions  

Then why are you taking it?
Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 13, 2007 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

its required
...
Now that he is back, play Matt Murton!!

by Chanman25 on Sep 13, 2007 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Try
working for a living.  Trust me, enjoy school.

by cubsbak on Sep 13, 2007 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

don't get me wrong
i like different parts of school, but i think we take classes that you shouldn't have to take..

Plus, i think the whole school grading system should change. People care more about getting good grades and studying just for grades and getting into a great college than memorizing the material and taking it to heart..

Now that he is back, play Matt Murton!!

by Chanman25 on Sep 13, 2007 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh Christ!
High School?!   Working is 1000 times better than that waste of time!  but its a necessary evil...you have to play the game if you want to win.
You may run like mays but you hit like $#!%

by cubsirishkillme on Sep 13, 2007 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow, I must have been a lucky one
HS was some of my best years. 4 years of wood shop and electronics, accelerated mathematics, a real physics class even cooking class (don't laugh; ratio of girls to boys? 8:1). Plus to boot, I even got a chance to play hockey and baseball for all 4 years.

Only drawback, I graduated from the same school as Hillary...yes, that Hillary.

Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 13, 2007 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

school has probably gotten harder
you have to take required courses in order to get into a good college. and if you don't, then what? your a lost cause? And the stress is enough to drive some kids absoletely crazy. hell, even where i go gym is almost becoming an actual class, not an easy A.

and while i am reading biology, i am learning about the excretion of anthropods..two questions..why should i care about this and why will i need this in life?

Now that he is back, play Matt Murton!!

by Chanman25 on Sep 13, 2007 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

I can't speak to harder now...
I had requirements too in school (and in the time, my school was nationally ranked).

I worked my ass off for NHS as a 1st semester senior and even with all that work still only finished in the 92nd percentile. There were A LOT of really, really smart kids at my school.

My science requirement was really only 1 year, didn't have to be bio - lucky for me 'cause I couldn't have cut a frog apart - so for me it was chem & physics.

I lucked out in that math was a breeze. I was one of 'those kids' who blew the math test curves. History and other social studies were requirements and I did the minimum.

All electives were in industrial arts; for me that was wood shop and electronics, plus a couple semesters in foods class.

Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 13, 2007 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Trust me
school is a piece of cake compared to what the last generation had to deal with. Try writing term papers without the internet. Try doing math without computers.

Remember what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

Right now every pitch and every play must be the most important of your career. Act like it or sit down.

by tharr on Sep 13, 2007 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

take this to heart
and I truly mean it.

School teaches you to learn how to think. I've preached that to my children and God children for nearly a quarter century now.

Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 13, 2007 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

I strongly agree with this statement.
Although, High School is, at least in part, about gaining a knowledge base.
"Harlem Furniture......You'll like our style!"

by Imtrejo on Sep 13, 2007 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

disagree
after 2 degrees and 6 years of college...Working is WAY better IMO.

School eats it!...other than the girls ;-)

You may run like mays but you hit like $#!%

by cubsirishkillme on Sep 13, 2007 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Pujols just lead off the ninth...
...with a double. And now Edmonds just singled him in.

5-4 Reds.

And now the Reds announcers are criticizing Buck Coats' handling of the play.

Carlos Marmol, you complete me.

by daver on Sep 13, 2007 2:13 PM CDT reply actions  

lead s/b led
Carlos Marmol, you complete me.

by daver on Sep 13, 2007 2:13 PM CDT reply actions  

Ankiel
Will K

by EliasTirade on Sep 13, 2007 2:16 PM CDT reply actions  

David Weathers = Ryan Dempster
gets saves in spite of slightly-above-average stuff.

by SouthsideCub on Sep 13, 2007 2:18 PM CDT reply actions  

Marmol = '96 Rivera, '02 K-Rod
I prefer the analogy that Ryan Dempster is like 2002 Troy Percival or 1996 John Wetteland - the "closer", who is obviously not the best reliever in the pen, but who does well enough often enough with the bases empty to start an inning.

The 2002 Angels and 1996 Yankees both had incredible relief weapons that they used in the middle-to-late innings and in tight spots. I'm happy to see Lou using what is essentially the same strategy.

by ClosingTime on Sep 13, 2007 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

good enough
CARDS LOSE!!!

by EliasTirade on Sep 13, 2007 2:18 PM CDT reply actions  

Game over...
...Ankiel* flys out.

Reds win 5-4, sweep series.

Carlos Marmol, you complete me.

by daver on Sep 13, 2007 2:18 PM CDT reply actions  

since Ankiels* 2HR 7RBI performance
he's gone 2 for 24 (both singles) with ZERO RBI and 8 K's. Talk about a guilty conscience.
"We're going to turn this team around 360 degrees." -Jason Kidd

by tony412 on Sep 13, 2007 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Like the asterisk
"I got mad hits like I was Rod Carew!"

by lostinthevines on Sep 13, 2007 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

flys s/b flies
Man, I'm losin' it today.
Carlos Marmol, you complete me.

by daver on Sep 13, 2007 2:19 PM CDT reply actions  

Yeah, that's what I'm saying,
that my requirements of a "successful" season change from year to year. I was deeply disappointed in '04, of course. By '05 and '06, I'd hoped they right the ship but they flailed and got worse. To lose 96 and now be in the playoff hunt? That's wonderful. How can that not be successful? I hope they make the playoffs and run the table, for sure, but I can't pretend to expect that. That would be a miracle. And if you get upset because you don't get miracled, there's something unhealthy about that.

And Chanman? Cubsbak is right. Enjoy school while it lasts. I just turned 34 and still teach part-time at university, and there's nothing like those years in college. Worst thing I ever did was graduate.

"Just because you've had enough/ doesn't mean you wanted too much." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Sep 13, 2007 2:20 PM CDT reply actions  

Too bad we can't all be Van Wilders!!
Missing Da Cubbies from NYC!

by dacubsfan76 on Sep 13, 2007 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Indeed
the years in college are idyllic to the point of being nearly perfect.

You have to grow up sometime, but I tell everyone I know in college to stop, look around, and enjoy it. Life ain't the same afterwards.

by SouthsideCub on Sep 13, 2007 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

college, can't wait for
high school, want it to end now!
Now that he is back, play Matt Murton!!

by Chanman25 on Sep 13, 2007 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd agree, hawk.
But I wonder how well our primary schools do this these days. The kids I get in my college courses, the majority of them are drones, numbed by the incessant chatter of having grown up with 200 channels, cell phones, mp3 players, etc.

As Hakim Bey once said, "These things make wonderful toys but terrible addictions."

"Just because you've had enough/ doesn't mean you wanted too much." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Sep 13, 2007 2:25 PM CDT reply actions  

The american Empire fell when everyone got fat
and fatter

...stay tuned

You may run like mays but you hit like $#!%

by cubsirishkillme on Sep 13, 2007 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

ah yes the EMPIRE
I am studied in political science and history and work with senior corporate decision makers, venture capitalists and the idea that America is a veiled empire on the decline is a subject.

But when I ask whether America should be an empire or act and behave like an empire it is a question not asked conventionally. America has acted like an empire, first the permission to save capitalism and the free market (both of which are an illusion as to their ideal, there is no free market invisible hand and neoclassic or Kensyian economics is a fraud) but anyway the question remains should we be an empire.

Empires come and go, because of the nature of things, they expand and seek wealth from conquests, (military or economic or both) but nonetheless those targeted, those cultures, peoples et cetera oppose that expansion.

The fact that we are a law based society that the Constitution does not recognize that the US is an empire provides an achilles heal as the it is shown with our war in Iraq and Afghanistan. We cannot act as an empire in full light of the day.l

Then there is the cause you said that whether a citizen's ultimate purpose is to serve the empire by not being fat or whether it is the pursuit of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as this nation was founded?

Yes we acted as a virtual economic empire, raiding and pillaging 3rd world resources and riches for our gain, now that is coming to an end and the decline is at hand. Is that really a bad thing or should we develop into a sense like Sweden or the Swiss and live within our means and better harmony of the world?

Milw-09-23-98--Brown in for defense--bases loaded--flyball--HE DROPPED THE BALL!!!NO NO NO, cubs lose 8-7

by Ivy Walls on Sep 13, 2007 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sweeden
Imagine what our country would be like if we spent 25% on defense instead of 50%.  Smart defense too like anti-terrorism, not huge bombers and more nuclear bombs.  That is a very simplified view I know, but those countries are so successful because they have differnet budget priorities.

by IllinoisCubs on Sep 13, 2007 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

you mean on defense and not offense
The priorities are self evident, and as Sweden moves their grid to 20% renewable and continually lowering their cost of energy, 33% by 2020, 50% by 2030....the capital cost already paid for 30% of their energy....and each succeeding and accelerating decade that by 2050 100% of its energy is renewable....

the cost differential will be enormous. And we will have to spend trillions on military to secure oil based economies where oil in 2010 will be twice what is today, 2015 three times.....

you do the math, it is not hard....then there is the cost of health care...oh yes the free market will take of that...

Milw-09-23-98--Brown in for defense--bases loaded--flyball--HE DROPPED THE BALL!!!NO NO NO, cubs lose 8-7

by Ivy Walls on Sep 13, 2007 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's been years since my World History class...
but I would think that those countries have been more successful at being peaceful because they have their priorities straight. This country, for as long as it's been around, has always been about capitalism and trying to improve its riches by any means possible. Hell, how do you think we even became a country? We stole it! The day this country stops its warrior mentality is the day pigs and elephants fly.
Missing Da Cubbies from NYC!

by dacubsfan76 on Sep 13, 2007 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

My family didn't steal anything.
Did yours? But beyond that, it's always been a policy on BCB to avoid political and religious to topics. I think that's a great rule.
Right now every pitch and every play must be the most important of your career. Act like it or sit down.

by tharr on Sep 13, 2007 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, by me I think it's OK
But there is so much more responsibility on the parents than so many people want to either admit to commit. I do try to impact our school's board decisions, especially if plans would adversly affect mathematics and the sciences.

My kids (and my God kids for that matter) did/are not grow(ing) up with most of those distractions.

In our home, we have regulated hours for TV. I have timing systems to regulate the hours.

Video games are restricted to hand-held units that are given out on a pass; after chores and/or homework is completed.

Cell phones are not given out until partly through the 9th grade and even then its regulated.

Computer time is productive and I have my own wireless network where I can manage every computer's activity in the house (there's 6 of them).

Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 13, 2007 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

science and math
Here is the basic truth. Before Sputnik America's secondary education system was built upon small high schools and k-8 elementary schools. After Sputnik the Feds and Dept of Education sought to consolidate high schools to concentrate the best math and science teachers and students and create a civilian army of engineers for the arms race.

It succeeded in its aim but with a cost. The cost is that education fails most of the students in its design. Math and science is not the end all, and a student's objective should not be a civilian soldier for the capitalistic, military industrial complex of the American Empire...who is kidding who.

We have stripped our education of its core for the sake of technology, the question is do you believe in freedom of the individual and society or the ruse of freedom for the sake of a material empire.

As for the fault of parents, i have found that most parents are pretty capable and only don't measure up to other anecdotal fear mongering.

Milw-09-23-98--Brown in for defense--bases loaded--flyball--HE DROPPED THE BALL!!!NO NO NO, cubs lose 8-7

by Ivy Walls on Sep 13, 2007 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

My wife and I simply want the best for our kids
and that includes math and science. Secondary schooling in the US is far behind other industrialized countries.

If they end up an engineer like me, they'll be rewarded with a higher starting salary. I feel blessed with my situation in that I can provide for a large family given my education and work history.

We also want to give them the exposure in school; whether or not they go a particular way I don't know.

We want them to be financially independent and getting a good education is paramount. It'll teach them to think; teach them to make good decisions.

We are also pushing them to look at various activities that interest them. At present one child is in her school's band. Another plays [fast pitch] softball. Two of my God children are moving into health services.

Bottom line, they all had lots of exposure.

Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 13, 2007 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

mixing situations
Certainly everyone wants what is best for their children and education is the best way for a middle class individual to have a reasonably secure lifestyle.

Realty is that the US society has a shrinking middle class in wealth and opportunity for some time, some economists point to 1972 as the high point based on wealth, earnings, work hours per family, upward mobility, savings, etc. What is best comes down to the simplest projection, individuals should find work that is a calling, a passion, not a chore and not what people think is a good living.

As far as education, is the purpose seeking to developing a critical thinking person or someone who is rote in responding to testing.

Milw-09-23-98--Brown in for defense--bases loaded--flyball--HE DROPPED THE BALL!!!NO NO NO, cubs lose 8-7

by Ivy Walls on Sep 13, 2007 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Knowledge is good.
Period. So you learn a little something about anthropods. That's all right. I studied everything I could in college: pre-med, finance, anthropology, English, etc. It was great. But to your point: that's what's really distressing is that so many kids take these supposed "college prep" courses. Then I get them as college freshmen and they aren't ready for college-level work at all.

I can't say school is any harder/easier than it used to be, but I don't think the current methodology is working too well. Far too much "teaching to the tests," etc. You learn a hell of a lot more through careful reading, discussion/debate, and writing than you do filling in circles.

"Just because you've had enough/ doesn't mean you wanted too much." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Sep 13, 2007 2:52 PM CDT reply actions  

well i guess its benefiticial to take all advance
classes..but sometimes the work is piled on and it becomes very stressfull. My brother said that he was definately prepared for college after leaving high school because the classes at my school are challenging..
Now that he is back, play Matt Murton!!

by Chanman25 on Sep 13, 2007 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

no doubt the curriculum teaches to the test
and since all the funding and rankings are based on the tests what do you expect?

It is baloney...it is a broken system and won't be fixed until it crashes.

Milw-09-23-98--Brown in for defense--bases loaded--flyball--HE DROPPED THE BALL!!!NO NO NO, cubs lose 8-7

by Ivy Walls on Sep 13, 2007 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

agree
sure testing shows what you've learned. But what if your teacher INTENTIONALLY tries to trick you on a test and you fall for the trick. You studied the material, but the teacher gets you with a bizarre question or wording.

Also, like i said ealier, people care more about getting an A on the test than learning about the subject..

Now that he is back, play Matt Murton!!

by Chanman25 on Sep 13, 2007 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ahhh, but there lies within the answer!
When you enter the working world as a full-fledged member, you'll find that bizarre questions or wordings (in another, simplified word - semantics!) is a key factor. What your teacher is doing intentionally is to train you to catch those and think outside the box (as well as in it). Those who can do both skillfully are those who will go far. Just my opinion tho!
Missing Da Cubbies from NYC!

by dacubsfan76 on Sep 13, 2007 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hawk,
sounds like you've got your house running well. Unfortunately, not many parents/families do, and there's less and less funding available for schools and other programs to provide like they used to when we were younger.
"Just because you've had enough/ doesn't mean you wanted too much." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Sep 13, 2007 2:53 PM CDT reply actions  

Thanks...
I worked hard at it; and with the help of my wife of over 20 years it was easier.
Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 13, 2007 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

What does that mean, that
"... the worm has turned"?
"I got mad hits like I was Rod Carew!"

by lostinthevines on Sep 13, 2007 3:02 PM CDT reply actions  

The worm
http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/6/messages/657.html
THE WORM TURNS - "Someone previously downtrodden gets his revenge; an unfavorable situation is reversed. The saying represents an evolution of the old proverb, 'Tread on a worm and it will turn.' The meaning was that even the most humble creature tries to counteract rough treatment. Shakespeare picked up the thought in Henry VI, Part 3, where Lord Clifford urges the king against 'lenity and harmful pity, saying:
To whom do lions cast their gentle looks?
Not to the beast that would usurp their den.
The smallest worm will turn being trodden on,
And doves will peck in safeguard of their brood.'"

by kaseyi on Sep 13, 2007 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

hahah
bascially my "i hate biology rant" turned into a very interesting dicusssion..
Now that he is back, play Matt Murton!!

by Chanman25 on Sep 13, 2007 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Everyone thinks
their high school is challenging and preparing them. I guess it is what you make of it. Work hard now, and it'll be easier for you later. I only speak from experience, as a college professor, and not at some elite, ivy-league U, only a standard, decent public U in MI. Most of my students are unpleasantly surprised about how little their high schools prepared them for their futures.

Ivy, empire is as empire does, whether it's blatant or under the table. And while I agree with your ideas, I don't think many parents have their priorities straight enough. Sure, they're capable, but they are not willing. Hence, 99% of all families are two-income families, the kids are sent off to daycare, school, etc. What's given importance, simply by the choices the parents have made, is work, monetary gain, material wealth. Only the best families - like maybe Hawk's - can keep a comfortable balance between this and a caring, nuturing household that fosters independence, thought, and freedom of the self. Damn, I feel like I'm lecturing so I'll stop. Interesting discussion though.

"Just because you've had enough/ doesn't mean you wanted too much." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Sep 13, 2007 3:08 PM CDT reply actions  

Not sure how relevant this will be, but here goes
I come from a different background, having grown up in a deaf family and being deaf myself. Deaf education in general is really frightening since the average deaf person's education level (a full grown adult, mind you) is roughly a 4th grader's education. Fortunately, I was in a very good elementary school and came from a family that stressed education (Grandma was a teacher for 25+ years). Secondary education for deaf students is even worse. Again, I've had the fortunate luck of going to an all-deaf boarding school in DC, which at the time was the best HS for deaf students internationally.

Through that HS, I was able to get top-notch education, while involving myself in extra-curricular activities that allowed me to travel the world. I owe my professional acting career to that HS because that's where I got my start and met my mentor. Not only because of that, but because the education I received there is unlike any that I would've gotten anywhere else.

It still pains me to see deaf adults and young kids going through school years behind everyone else. If anything, I suppose I'd tell you to be grateful that your kids are much better off than most deaf people will ever be. Like I said before, I'm not sure how relevant my rant is, but had to chime in.

Missing Da Cubbies from NYC!

by dacubsfan76 on Sep 13, 2007 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's not entirely surprising
Chanman, because one of the things about the working world that I find troubling is the lack of this sort of discussion and thoughtful debate. In college, discussion/debating was all I did, along with various other activities of course. But it means a lot, and I learned a lot, being able to share my ideas and have them challenged and even changed by other peoples' ideas. When you're an adult, it becomes much harder to find. You have your spouse, if you're lucky like me, and you maybe have a couple close friends. Other than that, it's "go to work, make a living, go home." People largely keep their heads down, especially with the workplace as it is nowadays (as opposed to how it may have been in the 50s-70s, which I can only imagine). I digress.
"Just because you've had enough/ doesn't mean you wanted too much." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Sep 13, 2007 3:16 PM CDT reply actions  

Very interesting 76.
I think your experience is definitely relevant. You were lucky, as you say, to have been from such a solid family background and to go to a good school. I think that most Americans, those that send their children to public schools, particularly inner city and rural schools, are at a similar disadvantage to those deaf students you speak of. The difference from school to school, district to district, is astounding. I grew up in the Chicago 'burbs and got an education that my wife, who's from the near northwest side and went to high school with cops at the doorways and drivebys, only read about in books by Judy Blume. Now I live in rural MI, and jeez, I'd never send my kids to these schools. And so I don't.
"Just because you've had enough/ doesn't mean you wanted too much." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Sep 13, 2007 3:30 PM CDT reply actions  

Problem is..
Those parents have a choice of where to send their kids. Parents of most deaf students don't. Very few schools have deaf programs, and even fewer have GOOD programs. Some parents are forced to send their kids to a school where their child would be the only deaf student there (hopefully with an interpreter for his/her classes).
Missing Da Cubbies from NYC!

by dacubsfan76 on Sep 13, 2007 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dempster
I know he has saved  alot of games, but he still scares the hell out of me!!

by DA4528 on Sep 13, 2007 3:48 PM CDT reply actions  

I think he scares everyone, however...
this discussion was out of control yesterday.  Dempster gets the job done more times than not, so we just have to deal with the heart-pounding until, hopefully not any time soon, he starts blowing several saves in a row...

until then, be prepared for an elevated blood pressure...

"If you were a hotdog, would you eat yourself? I know I would!!!"

by TheRiot4Life on Sep 13, 2007 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think if we followed most closers...
... we would find that almost all of them give their team's fans high blood pressure. We only see the box score results, without the day-to-day interaction such as we have with Dempster.

Dempster's done a good job this year, save three or four spectacular blowups. That's not bad. I still like him.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Sep 13, 2007 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

the difference is style of pitching
Dempster is someone who uses a lot of the count, throws balls for strikes and for purposeful balls, uses his splitter and other stuff and basically makes people hit pitches off balance. he is not a strike out killer like Marmol with his wicked slider.

So the ball is in play and often there are men on base.

Milw-09-23-98--Brown in for defense--bases loaded--flyball--HE DROPPED THE BALL!!!NO NO NO, cubs lose 8-7

by Ivy Walls on Sep 13, 2007 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Don't worry too much.
By definition, closers "scare" us because they come into the game in key pressure situations. Dempster's performance this season compares favorably with most closers around the majors.

by Fraggin Judge on Sep 13, 2007 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dempster was just trying
to make our one run lead winning perc. look better..
Now that he is back, play Matt Murton!!

by Chanman25 on Sep 13, 2007 4:02 PM CDT reply actions  

there you go!
look at the glass half full!
Missing Da Cubbies from NYC!

by dacubsfan76 on Sep 13, 2007 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nice to
start the game off with a home run.
Shawn Johnson, Des Moines, IA, worlds greatest gymnast. 2007 All Around World Champ. GO SHAWN!!!!

by sue369 on Sep 13, 2007 7:10 PM CDT reply actions  

I admit
I admit that I turned off the TV and paced around (DVRing it of course) when it was man on third nobody out.
This is going to be the fall and winter of our content in Chicago.

by puckishcubsfan on Sep 13, 2007 11:26 PM CDT reply actions  

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