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Around SBN: Knicks Beat Lakers With Familiar Strategy

Crisp!

NEW YORK -- No, not this guy.

Tonight at Shea Stadium, on a night that had me thinking I was back at Wrigley Field on Wednesday (had my jacket collar zipped up over my neck in the 55-degree temperatures, with a biting 14 MPH wind that just happened to be blowing right at my back from the 'best available' seat I'd bought), the Mets and Cardinals played crisp baseball at a crisp pace (two hours and ten minutes, thankyouverymuch!), and the Mets beat the Cardinals 2-0 behind the crisp pitching of Tom Glavine (looking like the Glavine of ten years ago), and two solo homers by Cliff Floyd.

You're welcome -- as I told Jeff and Mark (giving me phone updates from RFK Stadium), I did my part.

I rode John Rocker's favorite train, the #7, from midtown; luckily, getting the rush hour express and arriving about an hour to game time.

Shea Stadium is more than forty years old, and frankly, it's a dump. Although, as my SportsBLOGS colleague Eric Simon from the Mets blog Amazin' Avenue said lovingly, "it's our dump."

They've gussied it up a bit, put some new coats of paint on it, added a few video and other new scoreboards, but you know what? If you put flashy green neon paint on a '64 Chevy, it's still a '64 Chevy.

So I buy this ticket that says "152C, seat 1" on it. The ticket seller told me that it was down the LF line, just off the field. You'd see "C" and think that's the third row, right?

Not by the arcane Shea Stadium seating chart, which had to be designed by someone who was sitting there listening to the planes fly over loudly while he was doing it. See, "C" isn't a row, it's a "box", with four seats in it, and it's surrounded by metal railings -- the sort of railings that were removed from Wrigley Field in 1968. They make you feel uncomfortably closed in, and the system is so confusing I wound up sitting in the wrong seat for three innings, until the correct seat holders showed up, which forced about eight people to move.

This was all done good-naturedly, as if it's something the locals deal with all the time. Frankly, if they took the railings out they could put more seats in, cutting out half the really narrow aisles, plus they could angle the seats actually toward the infield; my seat faced the scoreboard in RF, so I had to sit on an angle the entire game, and half the time my view was blocked by people who... well, I suppose people who were confused about where they were supposed to sit.

Anyway, the bottom line is that "C" is... well, it's about seven rows from the field because the Mets added two "premium" rows in front of the original first row. Add to this the fact that they now have FIVE different priced games (Platinum, Gold, Silver, Regular and Value -- tonight was "Silver"), and you could get a migraine before you even get to your seat.

I was, however, pleasantly surprised at the quality of the food. Since the last time I was at Shea in 2001, they've added some local favorites, in addition to national chains in a food court -- I had a sandwich from Subway, and then, still hungry, I found a cart selling very tasty Italian sausage sandwiches with lots of onions and peppers. All of this was actually fairly reasonably priced, even more so when you consider it's New York, where everything seems higher priced.

Oddly, they will sell you a plastic bottle of pop or beer -- but you cannot keep the cap. Why? I asked. "Because someone might throw the cap at someone else," came the response.

So they'll trust you to not throw a plastic bottle, but not a plastic cap. Weird.

To give you an idea of how programmed we are these days to accept certain norms in baseball, the video board in RF apparently refuses to believe that a pitcher can throw more than 99 pitches in a game. When Glavine threw his 100th pitch in the 8th inning, the pitch count reset to "0".

Glavine threw a great game -- early on, I thought he had no-hitter stuff, and he allowed only two harmless singles until the 7th, when Albert Pujols had the first of his two harmless singles. The game started to fly by when Glavine retired 13 in a row and Jason Marquis retired sixteen Mets in a row.

Glavine might have had a chance to finish if Kaz Matsui hadn't booted an easy double-play ball after a leadoff single. Mets fans really detest their high-priced Japanese 2B bust -- he was booed when introduced, booed louder when he threw a ball into the dugout after Pujols' hit in the 7th, and again when he botched the DP ball.

And then, instead of the blown saves that I've been watching all year, I saw something refreshing. Glavine was taken out, but 40-year-old Roberto Hernandez came in and set the Cardinals down 1-2-3 after that, doing his setup man job (and he was available in the offseason), and then closer Braden Looper shut it down in the 9th, although Pujols had a single. That's how bullpens are supposed to work. You listening, Dusty?

About Cliff Floyd -- the Mets' only runs scored on two monstrous solo HR he hit, one of which hit the scoreboard, the other hitting a Pepsi ad right next to the board.

This performance got Mets fans chanting "MVP", which is a little premature. But I remember when Floyd drew comparisons to Frank Thomas on first coming up to the big leagues, and the only reason he hasn't been able to do this is because he hasn't stayed healthy. This might be the one year he puts up MVP-type numbers.

Meanwhile, Jeff and Mark were calling with updates on the Cubs' 6-3 win over the Nationals, giving them their first three-game winning streak of the season. I received the last update while on the #7 train back to Manhattan, and since many of you saw this game while I only followed it on the Shea scoreboard, I have these brief comments:

  • Aramis!
  • Jason Dubois. Good choice, Dusty. Why'd it take you so long?
  • LaTroy Hawkins should be traded for his own good.
  • At last, the 12th pitcher is no more -- Sergio Mitre was sent to Iowa (without making an appearance since his recall on Tuesday), and Mike Fontenot was recalled.
A game was picked up, and the Cardinals aren't the same team without Scott Rolen. Jim Edmonds didn't start tonight either, but did pinch-hit, and I suspect that may be due to his 3-for-16 lifetime average against Glavine.

Things are good.

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Sweet
Three game winning streak...

Come from behind victory...

Cardinals lose...

Latroy didn't blow it in the ninth...

Does it get any better?

by JFCubFan on May 13, 2005 11:42 PM CDT reply actions  

Worst MLB stadium
I have no firsthand experience with this, but is Shea generally regarded as the worst stadium in baseball?  It sounds like it.

by Zachary on May 14, 2005 1:36 AM CDT reply actions  

Worst Ballparks
I think RFK gets the title now over Shea, but they've got a good excuse, like the fact that they hadn't played a baseball game there in 34 years.  That and the fact they have to remove the pitcher's mound after every homestand so that DC United can play soccer.  The grounds crew has taken a beating too for its inexperience.

Shea is certainly the top contender for the worst stadium, but you'd have to consider the eighties dome twins (the Metrodome and Tropicana) as candidates as well.  Toss Network Associates (you know, the one in Oakland) and whatever they're calling the thing in Miami into the discussion, but the impression I get is they're a little better than those three.

For what it's worth, when ESPN did their stadium rankings two years ago Tropicana ended up on the bottom of stadia that still exist.  (Olympic Stadium finished dead last and Veterans Stadium was the runner up.  Three of the worst four ballparks are now gone.)  Network Associates ranked below Shea as well, which was in 25th place.  (PNC won, Wrigley was seventh.)

Get in touch with your inner Neifi

by Josh Timmers on May 14, 2005 2:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ah, but...
Tropicana is so... colorful, at least. I like the pretty pictures on the walls.

Um, one Cubs question, though, and since we got the win maybe it's nitpicking, but WTF was Dusty thinking in pinch hitting Fontenot then Holly? (Thank goodness Blanco is our reserve catcher, or he'd see more pinch hits.) Ben Grieve sat on the bench in the 8th and watched Hollendsworth strike out in what was a 1 run game at that point. Was there some reason why Dusty chose not to use the Cubs' best pinch hitter there? (Lemme guess, it's a lefty/righty thing...)

by helen on May 14, 2005 2:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

HHH
The HHH Metrodome doesn't have many fans, but you can count me amongst them. It's just a different place to see a game and when it's packed, it's hard to beat in terms of atmosphere.

Candlestick Park sucked. It's was dirty and dank. Just a lousy place to experience baseball. The Kingdome also deserved it's fate, as did Milwaukee County Stadium.

Since we're going over bad stadiums, I'll mention the ones that I really like. Busch Stadium is a great place to see a ballgame. The Ballpark at Arlington (Texas) is fantastic, just a beautiful ballpark. Kaufman Stadium is a solid all around ballpark and one of my favorites.

DmL

by dmlichte on May 14, 2005 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

You're right about Candlestick...
... horrid. Cold even on hot days.

The worst of the current ballparks has to be the Whatever-They're-Calling-It-Today Coliseum in Oakland.

Other than Wrigley Field, I like SBC in San Francisco, the Jake in Cleveland, Camden Yards. I have a long list of new parks that I want to get to in the next few years.

by Al Yellon on May 14, 2005 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Stadiums
I liked Candlestick even though I do remember being cold the few times I was there.  SBC looks great on TV though I haven't gotten there.  

I made my first trip to shea last season for the game Hawkins blew in the last week of the season 2 outs on an 0-2 pitch :(  Even with that I thought it could have been worse although we were also confused about seating.  I usually just walk up to an usher in any park but wrigley and let them point me where I'm going.  

My least favorite stadium has actually been Comiskey.  They somehow missed the get the fans near the game memo that everyone else building new parks apparently got.  I kind of got that same feeling from the Jacobs field also but I sat pretty close there.

My last point is why are they replacing busch?  It's a nice enough park.  It's not shiny and new but most of the seats are good it seems generally in good repair and doesn't smell bad.  I think that should count for something.

by JonH on May 14, 2005 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

You and I
have a different opinion of the Metrodome.  I guess I'll grant you the "atmosphere" (read: noise) thing, but the seats are terrible, cramped and point in the wrong direction.  The white roof is a pain in the ass for baseball.

I will have to admit though, that I lived in Minnesota during the Twins glory years of the late eighties and early nineties, and haven't been back to the Metrodome since 1992.  I do see on TV that they've made a few cosmetic changes and gotten rid of that concrete slab they used to call artificial turf.  So my observations of the Metrodome are over a decade old.  But I did get to hear the deafening noise that they had going on there, which I guess I don't see as that great of a plus.  (Kind of fun once.)

Qualcomm was pretty bad too.  It took a bizarre series of tunnels to find your seat.  Even after asking an usher, I still couldn't find the correct path and had to ask again.  And the concession stands were back out those same tunnels, which meant you couldn't see the game while you went to get food and it took at least a long half-inning, if there were no lines.  It was just another one of those concrete multi-purpose stadia of the 1960s that made baseball so ugly to watch at times.  I will admit that you couldn't beat the weather there though.

Get in touch with your inner Neifi

by Josh Timmers on May 14, 2005 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

HHH
Again, I realize that most people hate the Metrodome. I understand why. I just happen to like it. I find it to be a unique experience and a little less antiseptic than the Kingdome was. I really like many of the new stadiums, but I think that there is something to be said for having some uniqueness in the game and now that they've replaced the turf, the artifical field isn't a big a deal. I kind of get a kick of getting blown out the door on the way out. The late PA announcer and his "no smoking in the Metrodome" was a highlight. I realize it's not typical baseball but I think that it's fun.

DmL

by dmlichte on May 14, 2005 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've been to the Metrodome...
... that was my first indoor game, in 1983. It was weird, probably because there were only 12,000 people there and sounds echoed all over the place.

I can imagine that when the place is full, it is really rocking.

by Al Yellon on May 14, 2005 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

One more thing...
Tonight's performance gives more credence to the idea that LaTroy is tipping his pitches. He gets hit hard every time he gets in a game. Rothschild and company need to start looking, and looking hard, at some tapes, imo.

by helen on May 14, 2005 2:24 AM CDT reply actions  

The bottlecap thing...
I think has more to do with not wanting you to take the bottle, filling it up with a foreign substance (or water, I guess) and THEN throwing throwing the bottle.  
Embrace the Neifi!

by Whitebacon on May 14, 2005 5:30 AM CDT reply actions  

I guess...
... but that's an awful lot of trouble to go to, isn't it?

by Al Yellon on May 14, 2005 6:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

We're...
talking about New Yorkers, Philadelphians, and Oaklanders here.  They bring D-Cell batteries from home just to throw at people.
Embrace the Neifi!

by Whitebacon on May 14, 2005 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Something just dawned on me
while reading Phil Rogers' Trib column on-line.  Those of us who are only able to watch the Cubs via TV need to be pulling hard for him to get a managerial job in-season, so we can be rid of him.  I might even welcome back Joe Carter with open arms....
Embrace the Neifi!

by Whitebacon on May 14, 2005 5:44 AM CDT reply actions  

If you have the internet,
you could listen to the Cubs via the WGN broadcast.  You need only pay MLB.com about $20 for the whole year of Gameday Audio--all teams, all games, all local broadcasts (choose the one you want).  I follow the Cubs from Dallas this way and love it!

by dfrancon on May 14, 2005 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

I have
the audio...I just like watching the games from my couch/bed sometimes.  (Some of these games are awfully early for a college student - like 10-11 AM out here on the West Coast.)
Embrace the Neifi!

by Whitebacon on May 14, 2005 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm kind of curious
how one could post on this blog if one didn't have the internet.

And MLB audio does not require broadband either.  It works fine with dial-up. (MLB.tv does require broadband though.)

And while I agree with those who say Bob Brenly has been bad, please:  DO NOT EVEN JOKE ABOUT JOE CARTER COMING BACK!  Brenly is just a poor commentator. Joe Carter belongs in the hall of fame for dumb jock color commentators.  The guys who do the broadcast of my local high school football team are clearly better than Joe Carter.  The guy said more stupid things in a half-inning than Brenly says all game.  At least Brenly can say a few interesting things about his former Diamondback players.  The only thing that Joe Carter could ever say anything half-way intelligent about was his kids, whom I believe are all girls and are not major league prospects.

Let me repeat:  Joe Carter was the worst color man in the history of baseball.  They should teach classes about him to instruct commentators on what not to do.  He was in a class by himself.

Get in touch with your inner Neifi

by Josh Timmers on May 14, 2005 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Carter
...was just trying to be Ron Santo before being Ron Santo was cool.

DmL

by dmlichte on May 14, 2005 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Brenly
Agreed big time! Even Dan Plesac, who doesn't quite get the art of broadcasting would be an upgrade over Brenly. Hmm, Allard Baird, the worst GM in baseball, plus an owner who is more about name than quality. Add that to a fan base who need to be excited and I see the possibility of hiring a manager who won a World Series who really isn't all that good.

But I can't see Brenly or some of those other guys going to KC. You get a second chance, you rarely get a third chance. Guys like Riggleman are good managers, but in reality, how long will any of them last there? They may have some good, young players but I think that the KC manager's job is a career ender.

by dmlichte on May 14, 2005 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Brenly
I continue to believe that a lot of the criticism of Brenly is unfair. I readily admit he doesn't criticize Baker as much as is deserved.

However, Brenly does criticize players, just not as bluntly as did Stone. For example, on Wed. he talked about Korey "taking a cautious approach" on the ball - I interpreted that as loafing.

Brenly and Kasper have started to be more comfortable with each other, and I think the quality of their announcing has improved.

by goldstj2 on May 14, 2005 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Brenly
Sorry, but this is simply false. Brenly may have become a bit more critical as the season has progressed, but when he started the season he was waving pom poms, commending players for good efforts on blown plays. He still makes excuses for players and when he disagrees with Baker's moves, he'll always preface it to make it seem like there are a myriad of possible good moves, when Dusty's moves are just plain stupid.

It's not being blunt, it's being honest. Brenly has not been honest and trying to say that he's not being blunt is not accurate.

DmL

by dmlichte on May 14, 2005 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dubois
"Jason Dubois. Good choice, Dusty. Why'd it take you so long?"
I hate to defend Dusty but on comcast tribune sports show they made the comment that when the cubs signed Hollendsworth they promised him 100 at bats to win the starting job.If this is the case management tied Dusty hands and cost the Cubs some games.

by jimhickman on May 14, 2005 7:40 AM CDT reply actions  

That's not...
... a promise anyone should have to make.

Didn't quite make it, either. Holly has 93 AB.

by Al Yellon on May 14, 2005 7:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Worst Ballpark
Riverfront Stadium, Cincinnati Thank goodness they don't play there anymore

by T Miles on May 14, 2005 8:27 AM CDT reply actions  

I agree Riverfront
was terrible,but the new park is great as long as you are not hungry.

by jimhickman on May 14, 2005 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

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