Open Thread: 2006 World Series, Game 5

by Al Yellon on Oct 27, 2006 3:06 PM CDT in Chicago Cubs Game Threads

Many seem convinced that the Cardinals are about to be crowned World Champions.

Just a hunch on my part, nothing more: the series is going back to Detroit tomorrow.

Before we discuss tonight's game, I found some interesting Larry Rothschild remarks about Mark Prior in this article:

"Some of what we're finding out now is the combination of him having the laxity and that collision [in 2003 with Marcus Giles] internally did some things that weren't great, but weren't going to show up," Rothschild said. "He'd done all the exercises and everything he could to prevent it. They showed up with more innings, which is not unusual."

So the collision with Giles DID cause future problems? Maybe there are some effects from the line drive off the elbow, too, that they haven't talked about before.

Gameday: Tigers at Cardinals, 7 pm CT. (Cardinals lead series 3-1) TV: Fox

It appears the weather may clear by game time, though it'll still be nasty conditions for baseball.

Discuss amongst yourselves.

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Comments

"laxity"

Laxity is defined as the quality of being lax and neglectful.

So was the article talking about him being Lax and neglectful or his shoulder having Ligamentous Laxity?

"We're going to win here, That's really the end of the story." Lou Piniella

by Scott G F on Oct 27, 2006 3:13 PM CDT reply actions

Well...

being as he said that he did "all the exercises and everything he could to prevent it," I doubt he was talking about his work ethic.

"Extreme hopes are born from extreme misery." -- Bertrand Russell

by tyger1147 on Oct 27, 2006 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions

Good article on Rothschild

Okay, so maybe he did not know Lou that well before being hired for the Reds job? if that's the case, then it's a plus for keeping him around. (Not re-hasing it, just gives me more comfort with him not being handed something.)

The Cubs knew that they would not have Wood or Miller available for at least the first 3 months? If they didn't know this then I am not sure what they were looking at.

Basically, the only "un-planned outage" was Prior in my opinion, and even that's being generous to the Cubs' planning.

So if we had Z, Madux and Prior, then we were planning to use Williams and Rusch from the git-go, heavily.

Anyway, that's all behind us...

What disturbs me is the less than enthusiastic support for Hill. Make the team? Excuse me? He has to fight for a roster spot with who? Maybe we are going to sign 4 veteran starters? make the team?

Is Rich Hill a guy with a miserable personality or is he the other type who coaches generally hate, i.e., does he have a brain and think for himself?

Maybe I am reading too much here, but I thought he earned a spot in the rotation for 2007 after his try-out at the MLB level in 2006? If Spring training 2007 somehow counts more then I think this organization is hopeless...Bring Dusty back, make him the hitting coach for 2007, or make him Larry's assistant pitching guy.

by DudeVf1 on Oct 27, 2006 3:53 PM CDT reply actions

Nothing but speculation...

but maybe Rothschild and Hill really don't like each other. My guess is that Rich Hill was good when he came back because veterans (Maddux) were able to keep Roth off of him. And now Larry's resentful. Hill is gone. I hate Rothschild.

"Extreme hopes are born from extreme misery." -- Bertrand Russell

by tyger1147 on Oct 27, 2006 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions

Reply

Is Rich Hill a guy with a miserable personality or is he the other type who coaches generally hate, i.e., does he have a brain and think for himself?

Probably. Rich is known as a bit of know-it-all. Rothschild probably doesn't like that.

by VS on Oct 27, 2006 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions

Larry doesn't like

that Hill doesn't like throwing towels.

by BlueMike on Oct 27, 2006 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions

Adults and Children

Even if speculation is correct regarding Hill's personality, why should we care? Coaches are the veterans, the adults, the experts-- they need to work with the talent they are given. If Rothschild has any trouble figuring out how to work with young cocky pitchers, then he should not be a major league pitching coach. His job is to get the most out of each pitcher, and sometimes that might mean relaxing his own ego a bit.

But, of course, this rant is based only on speculation.

"Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." -- Sylvester Graham

by ExNorthsider on Oct 27, 2006 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions

I'm not

making any predictions tonight.

I hate David Eckstein.

by gravedigger on Oct 27, 2006 4:21 PM CDT reply actions

me either

well maybe one....GO BULLS!!

Go Hawkeyes...Beat NIU!!!

by sue369 on Oct 27, 2006 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions

Al strikes again...

"Just a hunch on my part, nothing more: the series is going back to Detroit tomorrow."

by Matt Allison on Oct 27, 2006 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions

He also

originally picked the Tigers in 6.

by jazzman56 on Oct 28, 2006 12:12 AM CDT up reply actions

I did say...

... it was a hunch. Hunches are often wrong.

Oh, well. Some people just can't pass up any chance they get to slam me.

by Al Yellon on Oct 28, 2006 4:24 AM CDT up reply actions

Wasn't

meant as a slam.

Picking teams to win in a certain number of games is a losing proposition in any event. BUt, if you do it, you should not have a problem with being reminded.

I did get a kick out of all the posts that said the NLCS didn't matter because the Tigers would sweep, etc, etc.

Now that the Cardinlas have won, that has morphed into: The Cardinals only won 83 games, they didn't deserve to win, we beat them during the regular season, Eckstein sucks, etc.

Time to get over it. St. Louis won, and it wasn't close. They are the champs. Only losers use excuses and try to rationalize.

by jazzman56 on Oct 30, 2006 12:41 PM CST up reply actions

Well...

... it turns out that I was wrong about the winning team AND the number of games.

Not the first time, and it won't be the last.

by Al Yellon on Oct 30, 2006 8:25 PM CST up reply actions

But I can hope ...

The Deadbirds freeze their [insert expletive here] tails off. If St. Louis gets half the wind we're getting down here, that wind chill is gonna be rough. Even though it's in the mid-fifties right now, this is a very wintery-type of day!

I really want to see Kenny Rogers again before the season's over, so Al, I hope you're right!

Coming Soon! Build-A-Bear Workshop's "Sweet Lou" Doll Giveaway!

by Littlerock Rynofan on Oct 27, 2006 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions

It seems to me

that the weather conditions, at least last night, had more of a negative impact on the Tigers than the Cardinals.

I thought the juxtaposition of the slip and misplay in the outfield by the Tigers last night with the one by Curt Flood the LAST time the Cardinals and TIgers played in the WS was brilliant.

I recently read an article about how that slip by Flood ultimately led to Flood's being traded to the Phillies, which led to Flood suing baseball over the reserve clause, which led to Free Agency.

So, you could make the argument that not only did that slip cost the Cardinals a championship, but it was the most significant play in baseball history.

by jazzman56 on Oct 27, 2006 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions

Matsuzaka Update

Link

Daisuke Matsuzaka, the 26-year-old right-hander represented by agent Scott Boras, may not be their first choice, sources said. The Cubs will make a blind bid just for the rights to sign Matsuzaka, but they apparently are more intrigued by free agent right-hander Hiroki Kuroda of Hiroshima. The 31-year-old Kuroda could be targeted as a No. 3 or 4 pitcher in the Cubs rotation, after going 13-6 in 26 games last year. He's 91-81 lifetime in Japan with a 3.70 ERA.

Typical.

by VS on Oct 27, 2006 4:31 PM CDT reply actions

You want typical.......

check out the new diary I posted. That should get us all real excited for 2007.

"Some advice: Stop worrying about being a good corporate citizen."-Phil Rodgers to Jim Hendry 10/6/06

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Oct 27, 2006 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions

Well

This ain't going well. I think it is time to start preparing ourselves for the World Champion St. Louis Cardinals :(

I hate David Eckstein.

by gravedigger on Oct 27, 2006 7:51 PM CDT reply actions

What a play!

If that doesn't provide some inspiration for the Tigers, nothing will.

I hate David Eckstein.

by gravedigger on Oct 27, 2006 7:55 PM CDT reply actions

I don't care if the Cards.....

win. At this point I prefer that they do. If this isn't a wakeup call to Hendry then nothing will ever be. He better get off his lazy ass and get some players on this team.

"Some advice: Stop worrying about being a good corporate citizen."-Phil Rodgers to Jim Hendry 10/6/06

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Oct 27, 2006 8:05 PM CDT reply actions

and I mean good ones......

Aramis, Soriano, etc.

"Some advice: Stop worrying about being a good corporate citizen."-Phil Rodgers to Jim Hendry 10/6/06

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Oct 27, 2006 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions

I HATE

DAVID ECKSTEIN

I hate David Eckstein.

by gravedigger on Oct 27, 2006 8:10 PM CDT reply actions

And...

... the Tigers defense strikes again. Is Ronny Cedeno playing for them?

by Al Yellon on Oct 27, 2006 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions

Man oh man

A lot of us were talking about how the Cardinals, based on the way they played this year, don't belong in the world series. The Tigers are doing NOTHING to prove they belong there either. It has been frustrating and sad. They've just fallen apart defensively.

I hate David Eckstein.

by gravedigger on Oct 27, 2006 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions

Why?

Just because we do not have him? He was a FA we should have signed awhile back. He is the type of players we lack...

by airweino on Oct 27, 2006 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions

Lack?

We had Pierre, remember?

by VS on Oct 27, 2006 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions

No

Eckstein was a free agent after the 2004 season. Pierre came to the Cubs in a trade before the 2006 season.

When the Cardinals, Red Sox and Angels did their FA musical chairs swap of SS, the buzz at the time was that the Cardinals got the short end of the stick. Eckstein had just had a down year (injuries) in 2004 and the conventional wisdom was that he was in decline.

So much for conventional wisdom.

by jazzman56 on Oct 27, 2006 11:31 PM CDT up reply actions

Right

Eckstein was a free agent after the 2004 season. Pierre came to the Cubs in a trade before the 2006 season.

I know. Air said Eckstein was the kind of player we lack. I said we have Pierre, who is basically the same player.

So much for conventional wisdom.

He is in decline. He had a rebound year last season, but this season he continued his decline (81 OPS+, same as Pierre). The guy had a great series and deserves the MVP, but that doesn't mean he has turned his career around.

by VS on Oct 27, 2006 11:40 PM CDT up reply actions

Oh

I was thrown off by the past tense "We had Pierre." If you had said we have Pierre, I think I would have understood.

by jazzman56 on Oct 28, 2006 12:02 AM CDT up reply actions

Disagree

Eck and Pierre are not the same. Pierre, at least last year's version, never was the sparkplug-type player we all expected him to be - he was with FL in '03. THAT is the kind of guy we lack.

No, Eckstein is more like a Freel (and hopefully Theriot) that just gets under the other team's skin, brings everything they have to each game, and gets those around them to do the same.

Pierre is not that type of guy. Hardworking, yes. But, honestly, I think we should try to keep Pierre for next year unless we can land a Wells or Jones for CF. I think he will be more comfortable with another year. Unfortunately, he will want more than a 1 or 2 year deal.

by airweino on Oct 28, 2006 12:52 AM CDT up reply actions

To make this post short

Yes, Eckstein and Pierre are extremely similar. There's no getting around that. All the intangibles in the world can't make David Eckstein and Juan Pierre good players.

by VS on Oct 28, 2006 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions

I truly wish

We had a lineup full of sub-700 OPS players.

Oh, we already do. He'd fit right in.

I hate David Eckstein.

by gravedigger on Oct 27, 2006 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions

Just out of curiosity

how many starting SS in the NL do you think have a higher career OPS than Eckstein?

Let me save you from looking it up.

Answer is six. (BTW, Eckstein's career OPS is .710)

Those six are:

Furcal, Rollins, Renteria, Drew, Ramirez, Reyes.

But, wait...those last three are rookies, so we really don't know what their "career" OPS will be after they have been in the league a few years.

So, you have to say Eckstein is amongst the top four, at least in terms of OPS.

The Cubs tried...and failed, to obtain Furcal. So, there is your assignment...go try to pry Rollins from the Phillies, Renteria from the Braves or one of the rookies from their respective teams. Good luck.

by jazzman56 on Oct 28, 2006 12:08 AM CDT up reply actions

You're proving my point

which is that Eckstein is an average player who is obsessed over because he's small and gritty and scrappy.

He's essentially Ricky Gutierrez. I don't remember Gutierrez being the glue to the Cubs team. But he wasn't all that scrappy.

I hate David Eckstein.

by gravedigger on Oct 28, 2006 12:43 AM CDT up reply actions

By the way

I borrow this from my second favorite website (after BCB, of course!), firejoemorgan.com:

2006:
EQA: .251 (21st among all SS)
WARP1: 2.5
VORP: 9.2

They point out that that 9.2 VORP is 217th in MLB.

By the way, check them out, as they have some great Ecktacular posts over there tonight.

I hate David Eckstein.

by gravedigger on Oct 28, 2006 12:47 AM CDT up reply actions

Sure, Mr. Stats

but Eck wins, period. Ask anyone from out here in Anaheim, and now in St. Louis.

He IS one piece of a championship puzzle that obviously requires more, but his intangibles benefit those around him. Sure his statistics do not say he is the top SS, but again, he is a winner.

by airweino on Oct 28, 2006 12:56 AM CDT up reply actions

I'm not exactly Mr. Stats

I do think they can help illuminate certain trends. And some of those trends in Eckstein's case would be: he doesn't really do a great job of helping your team score runs. And that, more often than not, is how you win baseball games.

I don't mean to be snarky. Its just that it is hard for me to buy into the 'intangibles' argument.

I hate David Eckstein.

by gravedigger on Oct 28, 2006 1:01 AM CDT up reply actions

No offense

taken. I do see your points, I just also see those intangible things as important as well.

For as much as I like DLee, he is a pretty quiet guy. ARam is too. I think Barrett tries. There were no guys on the last couple teams to spur the others on to greater things. In '03, Prior and Wood did it.

Whether we can measure them or not, there are those things out there that make a winner. Unfortunately, I think our men at the top have a bad eye for finding those things. Hopefully, Uncle Lou can...for all our sakes.

by airweino on Oct 28, 2006 1:54 AM CDT up reply actions

I agree with you..

... and it wasn't just Wood & Prior, it was Damian Miller and Eric Karros providing those "intangibles".

I know the stat people hate things that can't be measured in a spreadsheet. But they exist. If they didn't, the Cardinals wouldn't have won.

by Al Yellon on Oct 28, 2006 4:24 AM CDT up reply actions

bullroar.

Both of these teams finished like ass in the regular season. this WS wasn't a battle of who would play best, but who would play crappier.
the Cards have a vet team that had been there before, and they used that to their advantage. Detroit looked like a deer caught in the headlights. And while that might have been expected due to their youth, Leyland had a horrible series- a "maybe it's time to retire" kinda series.

by Matt Allison on Oct 28, 2006 8:14 AM CDT up reply actions

Well, I think that

it isnt exactly the same thing.

Look, the Yankees supposedly have the most fractious clubhouse around, yet they make it to the post season every year. It's because their management spends money and acquires good players.

David Eckstein's intangibles would have meant nothing if any of the central division clubs bothered trying to put together a decent club this year.

THAT SAID - I do believe that leadership can provide direction for a team with talent. But I don't equate being small and scrappy with being a team leader. Maybe Eckstein is, but that's not what you typically hear. You hear that he's tiny and gritty. Whatever that means.

I hate David Eckstein.

by gravedigger on Oct 28, 2006 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions

Here's two more guys that have "won"

Ed Sprague and Chad Curtis. They both have two WS rings each, and both were as responsible for their teams winning it as Eckstein was for the teams he's been on. As in, not very much at all.

by gauchodirk on Oct 28, 2006 1:05 AM CDT up reply actions

Please

now you're being ridiculous.

Curtis had a grand total of 6 ABs in his one and only WS appearance.

Sprague went 1-15 in one World Series and only had 2 ABs in the other.

Eckstein was 9-29 in his 1st World Series and won the MVP award in his second.

This is no comparison to be drawn here.

by jazzman56 on Oct 28, 2006 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions

I'm talking about the season

Ronny Cedeno could potentially go 9-29 in a World Series were he given the chance to start every game. Eckstein's .694 OPS had nothing to do with the Cardinals getting there in the first place, and to claim that he's a "winner" because he's in the right place at the right time is absurd.

by gauchodirk on Oct 28, 2006 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions

Yeah

OK, whatever.

by jazzman56 on Oct 28, 2006 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions

Unbelievable...

by VS on Oct 28, 2006 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions

The only thing we can hope for....

its that this creates a sense of urgency with Hendry.

"Some advice: Stop worrying about being a good corporate citizen."-Phil Rodgers to Jim Hendry 10/6/06

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Oct 27, 2006 8:26 PM CDT reply actions

The only comment

I have about the weather conditions in this years World Series is:

WHERE THE HECK IS GLOBAL WARMING WHEN YOU NEED IT??

by jazzman56 on Oct 27, 2006 8:54 PM CDT reply actions

Whoa

Did Tim McCarver just have a Steve Stone moment?

Cherish it, Tim, it is unlikely to happen again anytime soon.

I hate David Eckstein.

by gravedigger on Oct 27, 2006 9:12 PM CDT reply actions

First the White Sox

and now the Cardinals.

God must really hate us Cub fans.

Save the cheerleader. Save the Cubs.

by Josh Timmers on Oct 27, 2006 9:27 PM CDT reply actions

They do!

World Series can make me happy even if the Cubs aren't in it. But the winners can't be teams I don't like either.

I hate the Cardinals. What is wrong with Jeff Weaver? Isn't he supposed to be a bad pitcher? He did not have a good season, but maybe he got hot towards the end.

Cubbie Blue will always sPaRkLe in my eyes, but please stop losing. PLEASE!

by sparkles721 on Oct 27, 2006 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions

Isn't that the pits...

I don't think the baseball gods could have made a more bold statement to Cubs fans...

Looking on the bright side, maybe back-to-back championships by the Sox and Cards will motivate J.H. to do something more than spend payroll on Neifi Perez, Glendon Rusch, John Mabry and Jacque Jones this offseason. Don't get me wrong, Jones played better than expected this year, but we could have done a lot better in right field.

In fact, if I remember correctly, Pat Gillick wanted Mark Prior and some change for Bobby Abreu last offseason. Hmmm...

by Mark H @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Oct 27, 2006 11:41 PM CDT up reply actions

Ugh. Buck just said it

Eckstein for series MVP. Great.

I hate David Eckstein.

by gravedigger on Oct 27, 2006 9:36 PM CDT reply actions

That's even worse.

They aren't winning because they have Albert Pujols. They are winning thanks to David Eckstein and others!

Cubbie Blue will always sPaRkLe in my eyes, but please stop losing. PLEASE!

by sparkles721 on Oct 27, 2006 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions

I'm no

Cardinals fan (although I admire their success).

But, I would think you guys would have gotten over it by now. This is 10th time the Cardinals have been in the WS since the last time the Cubs were in one. And, if the Cardinals go on to win, it will be their 9th Championship since the last time the Cubs won one.

If this so-called rivalry were a boxing match, they would have stopped it already.

by jazzman56 on Oct 27, 2006 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions

It takes me...

a while to get over things. I mean I'm not going to wine and complain about it the whole offseason, but it isn't going to make me happy.

The Cardinals have won a lot, but that just makes me more jealous. They haven't won in my lifetime, and I wanted it to stay that way. Guess not. Oh well, I'll live.

Cubbie Blue will always sPaRkLe in my eyes, but please stop losing. PLEASE!

by sparkles721 on Oct 27, 2006 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions

How can you not admire

David Eckstein...the guy plays flat out ALL the time, is a great spark plug, makes all the plays, and does nothing but help his team win.

What's not to like about that?

by jazzman56 on Oct 27, 2006 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions

Those are wonderful cliches...

...that do not translate to reality. He's VASTLY overrated (which makes me wonder wtf he is doing in that goofy "look again" non-award).

But I also hate him because he HAS had a good series and has helped kill the Tigers' chances.

And he plays for the Cardinals.

I hate David Eckstein.

by gravedigger on Oct 27, 2006 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions

Here's another cliche

the Cubs would be improved immeasurably if they had a player like Eckstein.

by jazzman56 on Oct 27, 2006 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions

Well

Since you'd be talking about him over either Cedeno or Izturas, I'd agree wholeheartedly :)

I hate David Eckstein.

by gravedigger on Oct 27, 2006 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions

Don't know

how you can call Eckstein over-rated. He's a guy that nobody gave a chance to be a major league ball player.

Well, now the little dude has two World Series rings.

by jazzman56 on Oct 27, 2006 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions

Here's one stat

Eckstein's OPS this year? .694. So Taguchi's? .686. I don't think you're going to call Taguchi invaluable.

by gauchodirk on Oct 27, 2006 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions

But gaucho...

...he's scrappy!

I hate David Eckstein.

by gravedigger on Oct 27, 2006 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions

I know!

If only we could clone him so the Cubs could have a 25-man roster full of little Davys, all reaching base 35% of the time.

by gauchodirk on Oct 28, 2006 1:02 AM CDT up reply actions

Doesn't anyone think...

... that Ryan Theriot could turn into that type of player?

by Al Yellon on Oct 28, 2006 4:28 AM CDT up reply actions

Yes

I think I posted that above...maybe I should make THERIOT! my signature for good luck.

by airweino on Oct 28, 2006 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions

Drivin' off in that little yellow Corvette.

Disgusting. Well, it's official. Next year is here.

Coming Soon! Build-A-Bear Workshop's "Sweet Lou" Doll Giveaway!

by Littlerock Rynofan on Oct 27, 2006 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions

Lamest. World. Series.

Ever.

I hate David Eckstein.

by gravedigger on Oct 27, 2006 10:02 PM CDT reply actions

EVEN if you hate the Cardinals...

it still has been a great series to watch...completely unexpected things happening everywhere. The TV ratings, however, don't agree.

It will be good for the Cardinals to win this thing. Agree with a comment above regarding the White Sox and now Cardinals (probably) winning it- hopefully will give Hendry an even more sense of urgency. Yes the Cards will rub it in again and again, but if this Cardinal team can win the WS, it does give me more hope than I had for the Cubs to make some noise in 2007, provided they make some reasonable moves this offseason.

by LuisSalazar on Oct 27, 2006 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions

I've not enjoyed it

An 83 win team winning the world series? The obviously better team folding and playing like the Cubs? I haven't enjoyed it at all.

You both may be right, however, about Hendry, although I think the fact that his job is on the line may be all the impetus he needs to go out and make the right moves. Assuming he's capable.

I hate David Eckstein.

by gravedigger on Oct 27, 2006 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions

I enjoyed it!

I was happy to see the Cards win. It's a good reminder for the Cubs' front office.

Detroit's pitchers were reminding me of the Cubs in 2003/2004 when they had a streak of lame fielding plays on pretty easy balls.

St. Louis is a great baseball city and to me it's great for baseball when a city with great fans gest to celebrate. Maybe we can do it in 2007? I hope so!

Also, that's awesome that a rookie closed those games out!

by DudeVf1 on Oct 28, 2006 1:05 AM CDT up reply actions

Cards

If the team eight miles across town winning the World Series isn't enough to make the Cubs front office pay attention, I don't know why a team that's 300 miles away would, same division or not.

by gauchodirk on Oct 28, 2006 1:08 AM CDT up reply actions

God

I hate this.

Go Hawkeyes...Beat NIU!!!

by sue369 on Oct 27, 2006 10:07 PM CDT reply actions

well that sucked

NO MORE TRADING THE FUTURE ITS ALL WE GOT!!!!

by KyCubsFan on Oct 27, 2006 10:26 PM CDT reply actions

Well, atleast the NL finally won the damn thing.

Next year is our year!!!!

Go Nebraska Football!

by sanantonecub on Oct 27, 2006 10:27 PM CDT reply actions

Nice to know

that the Cubs kicked the 2006 WS champs' butt this year.

Did this series set any kind of record for errors per game?

by DaveinHouston on Oct 27, 2006 10:31 PM CDT reply actions

OK...

... time to get to work!

DmL

by dmlichte on Oct 27, 2006 10:32 PM CDT reply actions

Good job

Tigers. Really. Well done. All of that work all season to fold and commit error after error.

by kessinger on Oct 27, 2006 10:33 PM CDT reply actions

Not only that...

they were very similar errors.

Cubbie Blue will always sPaRkLe in my eyes, but please stop losing. PLEASE!

by sparkles721 on Oct 27, 2006 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions

Its the Neifi factor.....

how many ex-Cubs do the Cards have??

"Some advice: Stop worrying about being a good corporate citizen."-Phil Rodgers to Jim Hendry 10/6/06

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Oct 27, 2006 10:34 PM CDT reply actions

Ha! Actually it's the DFA factor

how many DFA'd players did the Cards have?
Wilson, Weaver, Vizcaino.....

by LuisSalazar on Oct 27, 2006 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions

Did Neifi play?

by DudeVf1 on Oct 28, 2006 1:06 AM CDT up reply actions

Game 3, defensive replacement at 3rd...

started a nice DP.

by bison on Oct 28, 2006 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions

I think

I'm gonna be sick.

Go Hawkeyes...Beat NIU!!!

by sue369 on Oct 27, 2006 10:36 PM CDT reply actions

Me too.

I'm just so jealous.

Cubbie Blue will always sPaRkLe in my eyes, but please stop losing. PLEASE!

by sparkles721 on Oct 27, 2006 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions

Kudos to you

for being the first one to admit what all this Cardinals bashing is really about. Your honesty is refreshing.

by jazzman56 on Oct 27, 2006 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions

I bash

the Cardinals because I don't like them. Jealousy has nothing to do with it.

Go Hawkeyes...Beat NIU!!!

by sue369 on Oct 27, 2006 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions

Not even

just a little touch of envy? You sure?

by jazzman56 on Oct 28, 2006 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions

NONE!!!

Go Hawkeyes...Beat Northwestern!!!

by sue369 on Oct 28, 2006 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions

Thanks.

And the worst part is NOTHING is better than winning a championship. We may own the Cardinals and slaughter them in every single game next year, but they just won a World Series, so that doesn't matter. The only thing better than a World Series is winning another one.

I'm jealous that I don't get the chance to say 'I don't care about anything else because my team just won the World Series.'

Hendry!!!!! Keep working because I'm dying for a championship!

I think I need to change my answer in your poll from today. I need to stop caring so much.

Cubbie Blue will always sPaRkLe in my eyes, but please stop losing. PLEASE!

by sparkles721 on Oct 27, 2006 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions

Spring Training

is just a few months away, and that means a new beginning and the renewal of hope. That is what is so great about baseball. There is always another game, another season and a new opportunity. Congratulations to the Cardinals. They are the champs for 2006. Enjoy your success.

Now the off-season begins and the rumors, speculation and wishful thinking that goes with it. In a lot of ways, the 2007 season starts tomorrow!

by jazzman56 on Oct 27, 2006 11:11 PM CDT up reply actions

Well Sparkles

maybe one of these years we will be celebrating our team winning a WS. Right???

Go Hawkeyes...Beat NIU!!!

by sue369 on Oct 27, 2006 10:42 PM CDT reply actions

By our team...

you mean the Pirates, right?

I HATE TONY LARUSSA AND ALBERT PUJOLS AND ADAM WAINRIGHT AND JEFF WEAVER AND ALL OF THOSE PEACHY CARDINAL FANS!!!!

WTF???

I can just see this off-season going to the gallows... Aram ain't comin back, Big-Z hurt, and a bunch of mediocre signings...

why do the baseball gods hate Cubs fans so much? The White Sox and now the Cardinals?

Give Me Girardi or give me DEATH!!!!

by KChiCubs on Oct 27, 2006 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions

I know

Go Hawkeyes...Beat NIU!!!

by sue369 on Oct 27, 2006 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions

Of course!

They have to.

Cubbie Blue will always sPaRkLe in my eyes, but please stop losing. PLEASE!

by sparkles721 on Oct 27, 2006 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions

Ugghh....

n/t

by Mark H @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Oct 27, 2006 10:49 PM CDT reply actions

I'm not sick about the Cards winning......

I'm sick about the whole Aramis situation. The Cards winning is bad enough.....but to have to hear that we might lose our best hitter on top of it really makes me want to puke. I also really hate the fact that Jim Hendry is still in a decision making position.

"Some advice: Stop worrying about being a good corporate citizen."-Phil Rodgers to Jim Hendry 10/6/06

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Oct 27, 2006 10:50 PM CDT reply actions

This is why you don't tank a season

when you're around .500 at the trade deadline. You just never know....

GET SORIANO!

by CubFaninCA on Oct 27, 2006 11:10 PM CDT reply actions

Right

and you don't quit even though you lose a 8 1/2 game lead the last week of the season. In a lot of ways, I think the stress of that stretch when they were fighting for their playoff lives served the Cardinals well in the postseason.

I also believe (as someone else mentioned) that the way they were humiliated by the Red Sox in 2004 and the heartbreak of 2005 made them really determined this year. The guys who were performed so poorly in 2004...Edmunds, Rolen, etc, were clutch this time around.

by jazzman56 on Oct 27, 2006 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions

WRONG !!!

Stop comparing the Cubs to other teams.

The Cubs are an island of futility.

I was going back thinking about that time the Cubs were at .500 at the break and won the title

That's right, it's never happened.

Cub fans might want to wait until the Cubs actually win a title before comparing them to anyone, much less the Cards who have the second most titles in history.

Hey, but I might win the lottery.

Be realistic.

by Peoria Matt on Oct 28, 2006 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions

Sometimes I wonder...

... why you are even a Cubs fan.

You never have a single good thing to say about them.

by Al Yellon on Oct 28, 2006 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions

Al

as I have commented before, I am a Cub fan but I am a realistic Cub fan.

I refuse to compare this organization to any other until they actually do something on the field.

The romantic days of beer, ivy and sunshine and "wait till next year" ended for me a while back.

I want results.

Sorry I don't meet up to what your standards of a Cub fan should be.

And by the way, pick something out of that post that's up for argument.

by Peoria Matt on Oct 28, 2006 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions

I have no "standards"...

... other than you appear to at least like the team you're a fan of.

Bitching and complaining -- what fun is that?

Do it if you like, but don't be surprised if I don't respond. It gets tiresome.

by Al Yellon on Oct 28, 2006 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions

Why would

I be suprised if you dont respond?

This is a spot to leave opinions on the Cubs.

When the Cubs give me something not to "bitch and complain" about, let me know.

The "everything is beautiful" mindset of Cub fans is also "tiresome", but if they want to live in la-la land, that is their choice.

by Peoria Matt on Oct 28, 2006 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions

people bitching

and moaning also is tiresome.

Go Hawkeyes...Beat NIU!!!

by sue369 on Oct 28, 2006 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions

And by the way Al

pick which part of my post is "bitching and complaining". If stating facts about how bad your favorite team is constitues "bitching and moaning", I didn't get the memo.

by Peoria Matt on Oct 29, 2006 10:58 AM CST up reply actions

What does this organization.....

do to deserve having good things spoken about them? People are tired of the losing, the BS, the incompetence, etc.

"Some advice: Stop worrying about being a good corporate citizen."-Phil Rodgers to Jim Hendry 10/6/06

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Oct 28, 2006 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions

although i hate the cards

i can say the Cubs won the season series against the world champs

Without a WS in 07 or 08--- AC 5 63 100 Wait, theres not enough room on that sign in right feild for triple digits. We Better Win Soon!!!

by LilLPLancer23 on Oct 27, 2006 11:47 PM CDT reply actions

The good news is..

The season from hell is over.

The bad news is the winter (offseason) from hell is beginning.

by southernilcubfan on Oct 28, 2006 12:17 AM CDT reply actions

It's freezing over, baby!

This just in, the Cubs have announced that Bob Brenly has left his announcing job to take the managerial job in San Diego. The Cubs moved quickly to replace Brenly with beloved fan favorite and post season announcing expert--Dusty Baker!

(Now if that happens I'll have an operation if needed to be converted to a Cardinals fan.)

by DudeVf1 on Oct 28, 2006 1:11 AM CDT up reply actions

DAMN IT!!!!!!!

"Harlem Furniture......You'll like our style!"

by Imtrejo on Oct 28, 2006 2:09 AM CDT reply actions

I DO NOT!!!

Want to compare Ryan Theriot to David Eckstein.

Make him his own player... or compare him to someone else. But NOT David Eckstein!!!

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." -- Albert Einstein

by tyger1147 on Oct 28, 2006 7:54 AM CDT reply actions

Eckstein

in German means cornerstone.

by Clark Addison on Oct 28, 2006 10:05 AM CDT reply actions

Why the Cards victory is good for the Cubs

This makes it more likely that St. Louis management will be complacent in the off-season and more likely that they will stay with people like Eckstein and Weaver, who played over their heads in the Series.

by BruceR on Oct 28, 2006 10:56 AM CDT reply actions

peoria matt

Peoria Matt i completely agree with you. This mindset of cub fans to be happy and just like your team is absolutely pathetic. O i'm not dissapointed with a 96 loss season (heavy sarcasm). This is why we continue to be a horrible baseball team year in and year out. We have a horrible front office that does not care about the fans and does not care about winning. It's a shame that the fans at wrigley the last month of the year did not do all they could to embarras the hell out of our pathetic excuse of a front office.

by CubsBall2202 on Oct 28, 2006 11:58 AM CDT reply actions

I don't think...

any one here is not disappointed about the Cubs. There is not much to be happy about, and losses don't make anyone happy.

As I have said before, isn't it sad that we, the fans, have to embarrass and do all this things to get the front office to do their jobs? We shouldn't have to do that.

Cubbie Blue will always sPaRkLe in my eyes, but please stop losing. PLEASE!

by sparkles721 on Oct 28, 2006 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions

good call

sparkles. We shouldn't have to do that to make the front office work for a better team but it seems like if we don't do this then when will they do their jobs. Think about the white sox win it all in 2005 and we go out and don't make a single productive off season pickup. We have a year of 79-83 and that's all right with them. However, we have to have a year of 96 losses in order for them to get their heads out of their asses and want to win. Give this a thought, if we had gone say 81-81 .500 baseball on the year, do you think there would be any more sense of urgency to win next year then there was after 2005 when the white sox won? Until the tribune sells the team to a dedicated owner that won't rest till we win then we will continue to endure year after year of losing baseball.

by CubsBall2202 on Oct 28, 2006 1:48 PM CDT reply actions

Good points, CubsBall,

I also wonder what would have happened if there weren't so many no-shows at the end of the year. That's a lot of concession and Cubs gear revenue out the window, which I think was an even bigger wake up call.

by Peoria Matt on Oct 30, 2006 12:12 AM CST up reply actions

Agreed...

... which is why I think management KNOWS it has to do something different this offseason, to prevent what they saw in September from happening all year in 2007.

Will they do it? We do not yet know. But on October 30, with not a single free agent signed yet, it is too early to give up on next year.

by Al Yellon on Oct 30, 2006 4:39 AM CST up reply actions

Sale of the Cubs

may be closer than you think. The trib is accepting offers from venture capital firms. If the company is sold, chances are that the new owners will sell off the most attractive parts for all they can get. The Cubs are one of the attractive parts.

I'm guessing the reason they want to win next year is to up the going price.

The Cubs will have a new owner by 2008.

by Clark Addison on Oct 28, 2006 3:13 PM CDT reply actions

Eckstein's worth

If you look at OPS to judge a leadoff hitter's worth compared to other players on the team, you're missing the point. Look at OBP, Runs and Strikeouts.

In those, David Eckstein looks like a much better player.

You guys inspired me to do a post about this on my blog, so if you want to see my full take on it, here ya go: http://midwestsportsfan.blogspot.com/2006/10/leadoff-hitters.html

by mtalken on Oct 29, 2006 1:01 PM CST reply actions