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Advice For The Cublorn

No, that's wrong. You can panic now.

Mike & I went to see Spamalot last night -- he had missed the show when our merry little bleacher band went to see it last year, and so with its touring-company return last year, I decided it was worth seeing again.

Thus, I missed the announcement that Derrek Lee has two fractured bones in his wrist, and will be out for eight to ten weeks.

There's no way to put a positive spin on this. All of you know what Lee means to this team, and missing that much time means somewhere between 55 and 70 games -- between 1/3 and 1/2 of the season -- and unless the rest of the team suddenly picks up this slack, the Cubs will struggle to score runs and thus, struggle to win, for the next two months.

It appears at this writing that Michael Restovich will have his contract purchased from Iowa to replace Lee. Note, I mention "contract purchased" rather than "recalled". Restovich is not on the 40-man roster. Someone will either have to be dropped, or more likely, if Lee is going to be out more than two months, he'll be placed on the 60-day DL; players on the 60-day are not counted against the 40-man roster limit.

Restovich had a good spring and was the last man cut. He's not a great player, but was at one time one of the Twins' better prospects, and he does have a lifetime .281/.336/.467 (.802 OPS) line vs. LHP. John Mabry, who hits lefthanded, is .269/.329/.422 (.751 OPS) vs. RHP.

That could make a passable platoon. No, it's not Lee, and it's especially not Lee defensively; Restovich has never played 1B at the major league level, and having seen him play there in spring training... well, he's not very good.

At some point, Jim Hendry might try to acquire someone. But on April 21, his options are slim and none. Teams just don't make deals for starting first basemen in April.

I would much rather see this platoon than see Todd Walker at 1B -- where you'd lose defensively as well -- and a Neifi/Hairston platoon at 2B, where you'd experience a significant offensive dropoff from a Mabry/Restovich platoon.

What more can be said? It happened. It sucks. But baseball continues.

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This is my concern
and I said it jokingly yesterday, but now I am really starting to worry.

I think, given this latest development, we can not afford NOT to have Walker's bat in the lineup every day. I don't care where he plays--stick him at first, stick him at second, let him ride piggyback on JHJ at second, I DON'T CARE. Given the offensive output we are going to have to make up, I don't know how you possibly keep Walker out of the lineup.

Yet I keep hearing "Put Murton at first," "put Mabry at first," "Restovich can play first," etc. Are people nuts? We just lost one of the best hitters in the game, and we are still going to platoon Walker and JHJ at @#*&@#$@ second base?!?!?!!?!?! I can't even believe that the Cubs are considering putting anyone other than Walker at first.

Is it too early for a drink?

"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Apr 21, 2006 8:45 AM CDT reply actions  

Just saw this
in the Daily Southtown:

"Todd Walker, who took over for Lee at first to finish Wednesday's game, likely will take over on a full-time basis, with John Mabry backing him up. That would open more playing time at second base for Jerry Hairston Jr. and Neifi Perez."

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/211sd2.htm

So maybe I can stop panicking.

"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Apr 21, 2006 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well, maybe...
... on days when Baker wants to play Hairston, Walker could play first.

Relax. The Cubs haven't even played a game yet without Lee.

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2006 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Cubs will have to take it one day at a time
and play match-ups.  On days when facing a pitcher that Mabry hits well, play him at first and Walker at second.  Play Walker @ first and Hairston/Neifi at second on other days. It's a team sport.  Everyone must contribute. Play small ball.  Steal.  Hit and run. Squeeze.  This is not an insurmountable task.  Gotta find a way.
One day, the dream will come true.

by brianp88 on Apr 21, 2006 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's why...
I keep coming back to BCB.  I've had enough of the haters!  Here, we can enjoy being drunk with optimism late into the year!
Languishing in Card Country.

by evillecubman on Apr 21, 2006 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sworn enemy...
...of italian sausages everywhere!

by Shawon O Meter on Apr 21, 2006 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

not if ...
... you're a bratwurst ....
HaHa! Na, you're all right! -- Flexo

by kjk on Apr 21, 2006 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

OT
Just saw "Ernie Banks" as a choice for who should replace Lee at first, which reminds me, we took my 3-year old to Build-A-Bear the other day.  He picked out a green frog, dressed it in a Cubs shirt, and named it Ernie Banks.

I also got a call from the daycare director because they had some parents touring the facility the other day, and the dad was wearing a White Sox jersey. They kept hearing this little 3-year old voice yelling "White Sox STINK!!!!" Over and over, but couldn't figure out where it was coming from. Yep. . . it was my child. Who was defiant even when reprimanded by the daycare director for telling someone that their team "stinks," saying simply "Cubs are da best!"

How proud am I? Three years old and already heckling White Sox fans!  :)

"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Apr 21, 2006 8:55 AM CDT reply actions  

That's awesome.
My cousin Stephen's youngest son, Lincoln Ryne, was learning the difference between capital and lower case letters, calling them Big A and Little A, respectively.  One day, Stephen pointed to Lincoln's Cubs jersey and said "What's this?"  Lincoln said, "Cubs".  Stephen pressed, "But what else is this?"

Lincoln strained his eyes and looked at the logo intensely.  Then his eyebrows lifted and with widened eyes he said, "Big C! Cubs is Big C!!"

Kids. Gotta love 'em

she

by Sarah Hope on Apr 21, 2006 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

How about Karros?
He's available. And we sure could use that kind of leadership.

C'mon Jim! Please?!?!?!?!

"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Apr 21, 2006 8:56 AM CDT reply actions  

It was a JOKE
n/t
"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Apr 21, 2006 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah,
I knew that, even if my reply didn't make that clear. Even jokingly, the idea makes me cringe.

by The Boar on Apr 21, 2006 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Too pretty for you?
n/t
"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Apr 21, 2006 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

lol
ya gotta laugh, don't ya? :) man, this team is star-crossed.

i have to say -- and this isn't to start bickering or whatever -- that the cubs have long suffered for a lack of quality in construction that makes injuries a ready excuse for collapse. good teams can work through this kind of thing -- remember the cards losing rolen, sanders and walker all for more than half of the year? and winning 100 games anyway? it doesn't seem so much to ask the cubs to win 85 in spite of lee's loss.

now i agree -- if they lost pujols like we lost lee, they'd be in trouble too. and i give credit to hendry this year for replacing useless parts like macias with modestly useful parts like mabry.

but this team is now in a serious bind because -- while its bench is improved -- its starting lineup wasn't strong enough to begin with.

losing lee wouldn't be so devastating if brian giles (or his equivalent -- i'm not being particular) were in right and/or rafael furcal or julio lugo were at short and/or kevin millwood were in the rotation. losing rolen, walker and sanders didn't hurt so badly because the cards also had pujols and edmonds, and they scored 805 runs anyway.

and they had stocked their bench with reasonably high-quality backups like taguchi and luna. this is where mabry and hairston come in -- the cub bench is better this year than last.

anyway -- then gadflys like me were harping on and on about how the cubs needed to do more, to get stronger -- this is what we (or at least i) was talking about. teams rarely survive a year intact; you have to plan on winning without your best player. the cubs just aren't in that position, and i hope that some who disparaged calls for more quality players now at least understand why those calls were being made.

by gaius marius on Apr 21, 2006 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't ever
want to hear Fucal's name mentionned on this site again. From now on, he is "the one who's name we dare not speaketh."
"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Apr 21, 2006 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

he
was obvioulsy drunk again and managed not to see a huge man in his way
"a sort of soft tyranny of positivity" -GM

by ksucubbie on Apr 21, 2006 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

you had
better cool it i think kurt is going to assisnate you
"a sort of soft tyranny of positivity" -GM

by ksucubbie on Apr 21, 2006 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

blogging is like butchery
in more ways than one.

in this case -- if you leave your work out in the open air and light of day long enough, sooner or later it's going to attract some flies. :)

by gaius marius on Apr 21, 2006 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

Who's Kurt?
nt
"At the end of the day, don't tell me how rough the waters are... just get the ship into port." - Stoney

by BCurt10 on Apr 21, 2006 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

A
crazy Nazi looking to murder Gaius
"a sort of soft tyranny of positivity" -GM

by ksucubbie on Apr 21, 2006 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

you have to frequent the comments
over at my blog to be in the know on this one.

by gaius marius on Apr 21, 2006 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

it's right here:
1060west

And it's a pretty great blog I think - just found it.  It's no BCB (sorry gaius), but it's very good.  I love the Neifi-O-Meter.

Go Cubbies!

by NC Cubs Fan on Apr 21, 2006 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

lol
i check out your politricks blog as well

ouch calling the 04 a for sure thing for kerry--

hopefully you are as wrong this year and we can somehow conted with 3 of our most talented players on the DL

ah what it is to be a cubs fan

"a sort of soft tyranny of positivity" -GM

by ksucubbie on Apr 21, 2006 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

what can i say?
i'm sometimes just plain wrong. :) it's really rather reassuring. can you imagine being right all the time? the pressure!

by gaius marius on Apr 21, 2006 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Cool!
Wish I had someone trying to assisinate me!  That means you have ARRIVED!

Altho, I'd like MINE to be a nihilist.  Those Nazi's are boring.

"At the end of the day, don't tell me how rough the waters are... just get the ship into port." - Stoney

by BCurt10 on Apr 21, 2006 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

if
"the name whose name we dare not speaketh" was on our team, he wouldn't be plowing down our first basemen either.
she

by Sarah Hope on Apr 21, 2006 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

or
the one whose name...
she

by Sarah Hope on Apr 21, 2006 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Duh
it's early---haven't had coffee yet---still feeling hurt and betrayed. Grammar is not my strong suit right now.
"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Apr 21, 2006 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

oh no,
it was me. i typed "the name whose name... blah blah."

and i HAVE had my coffee! arg!!!

she

by Sarah Hope on Apr 21, 2006 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hmmm....
I wonder if there's any chance Hendry will resume talks with Tampa Bay about Lugo/Huff?  Either one or both could do a lot of plugging-in right now in the Cubs' lineup.  I really hate the idea of Jones batting cleanup, which I and a few others on this board had correctly argued was inevitable.  

I have a feeling that trades aren't even on the radar right now, sadly.  I can dream, though.  :-)

It doesn't really hurt until they start losing, right?  Always keep hope alive, bros!!!

Anyhow, I'm still dying to actually get to my first live game  this year!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez

by The Jade Scorpion on Apr 21, 2006 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Just saw that....
...about Lugo/Huff.

Didn't know it was that bad.  The latest injury update in my fantasy league had them day-to-day. Good thing I didn't draft them........phew!

Must.....look......elsewhere.......

Am I allowed to say the Cubs flushed money down the toilet with Lee?  Or is that forbidden for anyone in a Cubs uniform and applicable only to free agents and trade block players from other teams they don't sign/acquire who then get injured?

Or perhaps they didn't flush money down the toilet with Lee and the diehard Hendry defenders should cut the same slack to Furcal, et al?

Sometimes injuries happen.  Usually, a good player returns to form.  Not just the ones who wear a Cubs uniform......

"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez

by The Jade Scorpion on Apr 21, 2006 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

what?
How can you say that they flushed money down the toilet?  Sure it looks bad now, but things like this can't be predicted.  Lee will recover from this.  I have little doubt about that.  It boggles my mind how people can say that Hendry made a bad move when he signed Lee to an extension.  We would have all been upset if extension talks were cutoff and allowed to be putoff until the end of the season.  Lee has never been on the DL before in his career and there is no reason to think that he won't come back strong and good as ever.  He may not come back at 100% this year, but he WILL be back.  Lighten up.
Madog93. There is only one good season of the year -- BASEBALL SEASON!

by madog93 on Apr 21, 2006 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Relax, dude.
My whole point was that everything I read here about Furcal, et al, would have led to that "logical" conclusion about those players, so why not Lee now?

Really, though, it's probably not a good idea to dismiss a good player's career after they get injured; you never know when it might happen to a Cubbie you're not ready to see retire just yet.....

Good players do tend to come back from injuries and continue good careers.  And I'm not just talking about good players who play in Wrigley. If anything good comes from this injury, perhaps I can get the Hendry diehards to stop declaring good players the Cubs didn't get "finished" because of injury.

Now let's hope Lee heals quickly, and that Hendry has a move up his sleeve earlier than his history suggests.

"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez

by The Jade Scorpion on Apr 21, 2006 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Lugo is on the DL right now
and is not the solution to this problem.  
One day, the dream will come true.

by brianp88 on Apr 21, 2006 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh I see
so you plan to lose a player like D-Lee, so we have starters backing up starters, your nuts, no one plans for this, Cubs bench is flexible. So what do the Cards do if Albert goes down, pick up Bill White, come on, No team can replace a superstar, how about A-Rod goes down what do the Yankees have, Nettles. Wake up, Cubs will survive much to your despise.
Where is Carmen Fanzone?

by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Apr 21, 2006 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

That blows.
I'm so p!$$ed right now I could explode.

by Sidd Finch @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Apr 21, 2006 8:57 AM CDT reply actions  

One name not yet discussed
is Erubiel Durazo. He's coming off TJ surgery and is currently signed to a minor league deal with the Rangers. According to Rotoworld, Durazo's deal stipulates that he must be called up prior to May 15 or his Rangers deal is voided. I'm not sure what the Texas club will do, but there's a good chance they won't need him. If the Cubs threw a minor league pitching prospect their way, perhaps they'd consider trading him rather than giving him up for nothing.

He's more of a DH than a first baseman, but he could certainly do well in a platoon or as an added bat off the bench. Although he had a disappointing year last year with the A's before being injured, the guy can hit.

by The Boar on Apr 21, 2006 8:58 AM CDT reply actions  

He was bad
with the A's. Based on what I saw of him that season, I wouldn't be too fired up about this proposition.
"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Apr 21, 2006 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

we're in tough straits
but durazo really doesn't have a position in the field. he's beyond bad with a glove, so i don't think even a desperate nl team can truly consider him.

by gaius marius on Apr 21, 2006 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Choi available and should cost nothing
Look I am sure this is in some of the diaries but right
now I don't have time to read them and could not
last night. Why not try Choi. Red Sox have ZERO need of him
and would probably be happy to dump his salary for a prospect.
They don't need 3 first baseman.
I for one worry less about losing Lee's bat than his glove
right now. You can't have Walker there on more than
a very temporary basis.

by jessica on Apr 21, 2006 9:11 AM CDT reply actions  

Choi not a good option
Who says Choi's glove is better than Walker's at 1B?  I don't like the idea of trading for Choi one iota.  I don't even want to think about it.  I see no reason why Choi's bat would be better than Hairston or Mabry's either.

by ontheuptick on Apr 21, 2006 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Choi Vs. Hairston/Mabry
Choi .240/.349/.437
Hairston .261/.334/.371
Mabry .269/.325/.412

Choi will never be the All-Star that it was thought he was going to be but he's can be a solid hitter.

by jolietconvict on Apr 21, 2006 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

I thought he had a good glove
I am more concerned about a decent glove
myself and real first baseman. I actually think
the Red Sox would give him back for paying his salary
and a 12th round draft pick as they have NOWHERE
to put him. He was suppossed to be finished rehabbing

How is his fielding ? I am a delusional that he was
decent?

by jessica on Apr 21, 2006 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

shhh ...
they might ask for murton back!
HaHa! Na, you're all right! -- Flexo

by kjk on Apr 21, 2006 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

They claimed him off waivers and can't use him
I assume the Red Sox were probably about 8th from the
bottom on the waivers list meaning pretty much everyone
passed on him. He will make $725,000 this year.
They literally have no spot for him so I can't believe they
would not be happy to dump him before in fact trying
to put him back on waivers. I admit I don't remember
the nature of the injury that has him on DL but it sounded
minor at the time. Not much to lose here. I simply
don't think you can go 2 to 3 months without a
"real" first baseman.

by jessica on Apr 21, 2006 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Re
Choi is probably the best of the not-very-good options out there.  You're right - the team needs a real first baseman.  TPTB are kidding themselves if they think they can get by for 3 months with a patchwork solution.

But it's never gonna happen.  How would you like to be returned to the team that first screwed you over for the sake of the CrimeDog Stats March and then the following year played Karros more than his platoon justified, pushed you to the bench with Mr. Italian Sausage, and capped it off by leaving you off the playoff roster.

"Hey, Dude, remember me?"

Somehow, I don't think Choi has forgotten.

by Jed Taylor on Apr 22, 2006 6:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

we needed
everything had to fall in line to have a shot this year, healthy pitching and overachievment from certain parts of the line up.  As pissed as I am I wasn't expecting much from this team to begin with, so we'll see how they come out this weekend.  Make a strong showing, maybe they'll overcome.

by mike bornemann @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Apr 21, 2006 9:23 AM CDT reply actions  

anything's possible
but, like you, i'd say the odds are very long indeed.

by gaius marius on Apr 21, 2006 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

recall 2003
when corey patterson went down, most thought all hope was lost (yes, corey patterson was highly regarded at the time).

good teams will find a way, bad teams will fold up shop. we'll see what we have here over the next month or so. one of baker's strengths (one of his only ones, as far as i'm concerned) is getting through things like this, motivating his backups, etc.

by tomas21 on Apr 21, 2006 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

agreed there
if baker's worth anything at all, it's not as a tactician or a strategist but as a clubhouse manager.

a lot has happened in recent seasons -- boombox smashing in the clubhouse, petulance on the field -- that has made me question is dusty is worth anything even at that.

but if he manages a cohesive winner out of this lot, i'd be mightily impressed.

by gaius marius on Apr 21, 2006 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

This is where Baker's strengths lie...
... if he is given a cohesive team rather than a collection of individuals, he can step back and let it manage itself to victory.

That's pretty much what happened in 2003. The 2004 team lacked that, and last year was a disaster.

It's not saying too much to state that Eric Karros and Damian Miller were the glue that made the 2003 team run. Now, I'm not saying you have to get those two back to win. But you have to have players LIKE that.

Juan Pierre is one such player. There may be others on this team, who have not yet stepped up.

They're going to have to now.

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2006 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not so sure about that....
I'm questioning Baker's success in team motivation as well.  There's a mountain of evidence that suggests he let petty crap doom the 2004 team, and the 2005 team wasn't much better.

Personally, I think his previous success as a player's manager is mostly (all?) luck.  He took a team of individuals to the World Series in 2002 (Bonds, Kent), and the 2004 Cubs team wasn't that different than the 2003 team.  Minus Miller and Karros, sure; but plus team players Walker, Maddux, and Barrett.  One more win in 04 than 03, just stronger competition in the Cards.

by MikeJ on Apr 21, 2006 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

If Baker's success is mostly due to luck..
..then I want to go to the track with him. I think it takes a little more than luck to win manager of the year 3 times. Just my silly opinion..

by wicubfan on Apr 21, 2006 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

luck, aka...
...having the best player of our time at your disposal in SF for all three of those awards.  

Not that it isn't possible to screw that up, but it never hurts.  For all the complaining I hear about him not having a good enough roster at his disposal to win here in Chicago, do we use the same logic and take the sheen off of the success that he had in San Francisco?  You can't have it both ways.

by dustyisdonnie on Apr 21, 2006 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Best player...
The Bulls never won anything until Phil Jackson showed up. Alex Rodriguez has been widely considered the best player in the American League the last few years and yet Torre hasn't won a World Series with him. The '03 Cubs didn't have a lineup that featured the best position player at any position. Just because you have the best player in the league doesn't gaurantee anything. While Baker did win with the best player in the league, he also took the Cubs within 5 outs of the World Series with a lineup that didn't even feature the best player at his position. If you want to say his success in SF was all due to Bonds then fine. The '03 Cubs destroys the argument that Baker only wins with the best talent.

by wicubfan on Apr 21, 2006 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

the '03 Cubs
...maybe then the argument should be that he wins only in weak divisions, then?  88 wins doesn't get you to the playoffs in the East or the West that year.

My point isn't that having a great player guarantees a championship -- that's obvious from looking at Barry Bonds' trophy case, which has a lot of MVPs but no rings.  But I think that the true impact of a manager is tough to judge, and we at least need to look at the tools that he had at his disposal.  Personally, I feel like he could have done better, though at the end of the day I also feel that talent and luck have a hell of a lot more to do with getting to the postseason and winning it, respectively.

I don't know how much of a team's success is linked to the way that they're coached; nobody does.  But a lot of folks that defend Dusty bring out the argument that he can't win without good players (true).  Isn't it fair to say that, on the flip side of that argument, a lot of his success is due to the talent that he has at his disposal?

by dustyisdonnie on Apr 21, 2006 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

It is possible
that 88 wins taking the division is an indicator of how GOOD the division was.  The unbalanced schedule makes it difficult for teams in the same division as other really good teams.

I'm not saying this is exactly what happened in '03.  But it shouldn't be assumed that b/c less wins won a division, it's a poor division.

I'm not sayin'.  I'm just sayin'.

"At the end of the day, don't tell me how rough the waters are... just get the ship into port." - Stoney

by BCurt10 on Apr 21, 2006 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

well, yes...
...but I don't think that was the case in 2003 for the NL.  It's tough to compare a six-team division to a five-team one, but the Central looks a lot like the West in '03 with two exceptions: the Central didn't have a 100-win team (SF was 100-61 that year, no doubt due to the Dusty Hangover Effect), and the Central had an extra team that won in the high 60s (both Cincy and Milwaukee in the Central, with San Diego playing that role in the West).

You play the hand you're dealt, and in that case, 88 wins gets you to the playoffs.  Why they got to 88 wins, I'll leave for another day.

by dustyisdonnie on Apr 21, 2006 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

actually, the bulls
never won anything until scottie and grant got a year or two under their belts. perhaps you remember a guy named doug collins, who had built them up to the eastern conference finals in 1989. the zen master came in and coasted on the talent. he then very carefully chose a powerhouse la team to coach so that his aura wouldn't be tattered.

coaching at the top level is all about not screwing it up. the players on the field win. a good coach makes sure they and he don't screw it up.

i watched dusty screw up game 6 so badly that i wanted to puke. he can cram his awards where the sun don't shine -- awards don't make him good, they prove the gullibility of the voters.

by gaius marius on Apr 21, 2006 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dusty?
How could it be Dusty's fault?  Gonzalez was destined to make X number of errors that year.  It just so happened that one of them came in game 6, at a most in-opportune time.  

Prior was destined to give up Y number of runs that year.  The Cubs were destined to lose Z number of home games.  You were destined to puke N number of times that year.

Just kidding, of course.  I'm sure there is statistical evidence that Dusty made the wrong moves that game... or no-one would dare question them.

Coaches/Managers can have bad and good years (games, innings, at bats) too.  Just like players.  Sometimes the group of players on a team just click.  Sometimes the coach/manager clicks with them.  Sometimes a bad mangaer can do a good job.  Or an average manager can do a GREAT job.  And, sometimes GOOD managers can do BAD jobs.  

Sports does not build character, it reveals it.  A good leader will bring the best out of those in his charge, more often than not.  Dusty has won with a variety of teams.  While I strongly disagree w/ many of his moves, I give him credit for what he's accomplished.

I don't believe for a second that he managed to just "not screw it up" every time his team won.

"At the end of the day, don't tell me how rough the waters are... just get the ship into port." - Stoney

by BCurt10 on Apr 21, 2006 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

well...
Running Prior out for the seventh inning in game 2 with a ten-run lead may not have helped, but maybe that's just speculation.  As is making the jump from 'team x won' to 'team x's manager is responsible for the win.'  There's a lot of blanks to fill in between here and there.

by dustyisdonnie on Apr 21, 2006 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

That was tonue-in-cheek
I was making a poorly constrcted joke about a debate Gaius and I had the last couple days about stats and "clutch" performances.
"At the end of the day, don't tell me how rough the waters are... just get the ship into port." - Stoney

by BCurt10 on Apr 21, 2006 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

aah. whoops...
Too much 2003 baggage for me, I guess...

by dustyisdonnie on Apr 21, 2006 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Too much 2003 baggage
for ALL OF US.

Sometimes we forget we're all on the same side.  We ALL want the Cubs to win.  Even the evil Ivychat (kidding, Chuck.)  We just all have our different ways of expressing it.  We have different opinions on what the Cubs should do.  We have different views on what Cubs players are capable of.

I suppose we would be pretty bored and have nothing to bicker about if we all were of the same mind in these matters.

"At the end of the day, don't tell me how rough the waters are... just get the ship into port." - Stoney

by BCurt10 on Apr 21, 2006 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

lol
i was 200 words into a game 6 rant when i read further. talk about baggage. :)

by gaius marius on Apr 21, 2006 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not screwing up...
Can easily be applied in many more cases to Tony LaRussa (everybody's genius)than Baker. How about getting swept in the World Series in 1990 to a huge underdog in the Reds? Or what about losing to the Dodgers (again as a heavy favorite) in 1988? I guess his 4 manager of the year awards were  due to the gullibility of the voters also since he won the award in '83 and his White Sox screwed up and didn't make the series, or 2002 when his Cardinals lost to Baker's Giants in the playoffs.

While the manager of the year award is probably not the most objective measure, it is voted on by longtime baseball observers who feel that that particular manager did the best job with the talent he had over the course of a 162 game season. To say that poor management of one game is proof that the voters are gullible is laughable.

by wicubfan on Apr 21, 2006 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Re
That's not true.  Doug Collins took them to the playoffs, just as Baker has taken some of his.

Dusty and Doug have the same number of championship rings.  Phil's working toward getting some for his toes.

The idea that there's any similarity between Dusty Baker and Phil Jackson is absurd.  The latter is a champion.  The former, well, the Doug Collins of baseball.

by Jed Taylor on Apr 22, 2006 6:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

a cohesive team like in san francisco?
come on al.  in san francisco dusty repeatedly managed a team whose two best players were barry bonds and jeff kent.

no manager steps back and lets a team manage itself to victory.

All will be fixed in 2006

by DSZ on Apr 21, 2006 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Re
Well, if that's what it takes, what's the point of having Baker around at all?  For his brilliant lineups?  For his tactical genius?

What you're basically saying is that for Baker to be successful, he needs to be irrelevant.

The mark of a good manager is the ability to take individuals and meld them into a team.  Baker failed horribly the past two years at this.  And it's a big part of why I want to see him replaced.

by Jed Taylor on Apr 22, 2006 6:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

very true
but w've had 2 seasons since to shwo we can overcome injuries and succeed. Hopefully this is the year they do it.

by mike bornemann @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Apr 21, 2006 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Excellent point Sarah.
n/t

by Sidd Finch @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Apr 21, 2006 9:33 AM CDT reply actions  

depressed
Now I'm going to be depressed at work all day, unable to concentrate.  And I have tickets for tonights game!  How can I possibly concentrate under such conditions?!

by Sidd Finch @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Apr 21, 2006 9:35 AM CDT reply actions  

I'm going
out on a limb to say we win tonight. Or, if we lose, it will be Rusch's fault, and not the fault of our offense.
"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Apr 21, 2006 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

It won't be Rusch's fault
Unless he beats up Williams in the clubhouse
Rusch pitches tomorrow

by jessica on Apr 21, 2006 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

He might....
Beat up Williams in the dugout... HA... I loved that one, so I had to comment on it

by BillHoldenFan on Apr 21, 2006 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

or...
unless he eats Williams in the dugout.
The Cubs better shine 'fore twenty-oh-nine!

by Shawn Domagal-Goldman on Apr 21, 2006 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Actually if you think about it
Rusch could injure Williams by accident if for instance
he sat on him by mistake. Jerome looks kind of skinny
and Rusch is an elephant

by jessica on Apr 21, 2006 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

everyone
looks skinnier in person.  I was shocked after the Las Vegas games the few players I saw up close how much skinnier they looked.  Dusty especially.

by mike bornemann @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Apr 21, 2006 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

The camera adds 10 pounds.
Not sure how many cameras are on Rusch at all times tho.  Must be at least 5.
"At the end of the day, don't tell me how rough the waters are... just get the ship into port." - Stoney

by BCurt10 on Apr 21, 2006 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

forgot the quotes,
not asking you the question

by mike bornemann @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Apr 21, 2006 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

LOL
I was like "whoa! harsh!"
"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Apr 21, 2006 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

lol
Where is that actually from?  I use that joke all the damn time, and don't even know where I got it.  Seinfeld maybe?

BTW, currently there are about 3 xtra cameras on me.  I'm working on that tho. :)

"At the end of the day, don't tell me how rough the waters are... just get the ship into port." - Stoney

by BCurt10 on Apr 21, 2006 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

friends
is where I got it from.  I'm tryin to work off those college pounds and its not helPing that every coach I had since the age of 7 made running a punishment, so now I hate doing it.

by mike bornemann @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Apr 21, 2006 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's when
they're watching the prom video.
she

by Sarah Hope on Apr 21, 2006 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Nope
it's ALWAYS Rusch's fault!

Kidding--forgot Williams was up tonight.

"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Apr 21, 2006 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree with putting Walker at first.
His glove is something of a liability whereever he plays, but if he's at first then we'll have better defense at second. Walker has been hitting the ball much better than any likely replacement, so it makes good sense to get him in the lineup anyway.

If our pitchers get healthy, if Murton and Jones hit well, we can stay in this, and Lee could be back for the end of the season.  The Cubs will work some deals as the trading deadline approaches too.  

It's still very early and there are ways for things to turn out well.  It's just that now we have a lot more "ifs".

by Routine Pop Fly on Apr 21, 2006 9:39 AM CDT reply actions  

I LOVE "THESE" CUBS
The Cubs this year play at the tune of a different drum then Cubs of the past.  Yeah, D-Lee is gone now, but the Cubs are still here...  I am not throwing in any towel and when we play tough as nails in St. Louis neither will anyone else...

We run, and hustle more because of the presence of Juan Juan the Frenchman.... Case in point:  Cedeno stretching bloop single into a double.... A hell of a lot more stolen bases... and  9-5 record to start the season...

The Cubs are going to be okay... The starting pitching has sputtered a bit to start the season... This comes around and we are all singing "GO CUBS GO" really really soon...    

SO LETS RALLY AROUND THE TEAM WE HAVE ON THE FIELD EACH AND EVERY DAY!!!

by BillHoldenFan on Apr 21, 2006 9:55 AM CDT reply actions  

I love your optimism,
but I can't quite feel the blue kool-aid at the moment.  a-ram and jones are going to have to step up, and step-up quickly!

by madtown on Apr 21, 2006 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

gotta have some hope
or there is no reason to watch.  Nothing wrong with being realistic though.  I feel the same way you do - ARam better step up for the sake of the Cubs and my fantasy team!

by MO Cubs Fan on Apr 21, 2006 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

What makes you think
that most teams will pitch to Ramirez?  He's the only consistently dangerous hitter in that lineup.  He can be pitched around.

by Lance on Apr 21, 2006 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

As much as Ramirez
needs to step up, the rest of the team - particularly whomever hits behind Ramirez - will need to step up even more.

Now we'll find out what kind of TEAM we have.

"At the end of the day, don't tell me how rough the waters are... just get the ship into port." - Stoney

by BCurt10 on Apr 21, 2006 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

not sure why anyone would
pitch to aramis now.

by gaius marius on Apr 21, 2006 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Go Gubs Go!
The 22nd of April 2006

-with apologies to the late great Steve Goodman...

WOE Cubs WOE
WOE Cubs WOE
Hey Chicago waddaya say,
Bring back Derek Lee today!

by hellfreezesoverwaittillnextyear on Apr 22, 2006 5:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Barrett to first
Walker at 2nd, Hank White C, Barrett at first.
Mark Grace is available. So is Bill Buckner. I say trade for Travis Lee (D-ray). He's pretty good, not D. Lee good, but good enough.
Cleverly Disguised as a Responsible Adult

by Scott G F on Apr 21, 2006 10:15 AM CDT reply actions  

My brain just exploded...
BARRETT to FIRST!

(sound of hippocampus hitting the carpet)

Languishing in Card Country.

by evillecubman on Apr 21, 2006 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thoughts
I went in to this season assuming that the Cubs were not going to make the playoffs.  If they did that was great but I wasn't expecting it.  So while this sucks; it doesn't change my outlook on the season.  What sucks is that a hitter breaking his wrist can be disastrous.  Nomar has never been anywhere near the same hitter since he broke his wrist.

Finally I'm sure Dusty wouldn't choose for this to happen; but it probably guarantees him a contract extension.  He now has a built-in excuse why this team is not going to win.

by jolietconvict on Apr 21, 2006 10:18 AM CDT reply actions  

I'd like to see
a platoon not based on the opposing pitcher, but on our pitcher

with Maddux on the mound I want the best defense we can put out there, give him somewe'd lose more by having errors score runs

by flyball on Apr 21, 2006 10:49 AM CDT reply actions  

That makes sense
Play Neifi when the Cubs have a groundball inducing pitcher on the mound.  I'm sure there's a stat somewhere showing the ratio of ground balls to fly balls allowed...
One day, the dream will come true.

by brianp88 on Apr 21, 2006 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think I like the idea of Mabry at First.
Especially against the Cardinals.

If he went on a hot streak...maybe the irony would give us the mojo we need right now!

by Sidd Finch @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Apr 21, 2006 10:59 AM CDT reply actions  

meaning
Walker and his .405 average would be at 2b, tho, right?
"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Apr 21, 2006 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

I reeeeaaaaly
want to punch that green thing.

by mike bornemann @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Apr 21, 2006 11:47 AM CDT reply actions  

I don't have time to read all but
I do not like Restovich.  I would just as soon see Mabry in the everyday lineup at 1B.  That is what he is here for.  Him, Walker, Neifi can all rotate around.  No to Restovich.  He is not good.  I say we call up anyone else (Sing, Dopairek) instead.  

No other way to out it...this SUCKS!  Out of our sluggers, I'd rather it been Ramirez.  He is one of my favorites but with his sub .200 BA, he would be less missed.

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh...why can't this team catch a freakin break???????

Anyone can have a bad century...

by Kinky Reggae on Apr 21, 2006 11:53 AM CDT reply actions  

See, that just selfish and unfair
Restovich is way hotter than Mabry, and this team could use a little boost in the looks department. Why can't you stop thinking of yourself for one second and think of all the women who are watching?
"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Apr 21, 2006 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't care...
...if we have 25 Randy Johnson look a likes as long as we win.  On the other hand I wouldn't mind if Jenny Finch could come be a starting pitcher.  
Madog93. There is only one good season of the year -- BASEBALL SEASON!

by madog93 on Apr 21, 2006 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

See?
A little something for everyone.
"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Apr 21, 2006 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

OOOH!
Jenny Finch!

Suddenly I'm pulled from my deep, deep depression!

"At the end of the day, don't tell me how rough the waters are... just get the ship into port." - Stoney

by BCurt10 on Apr 21, 2006 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

i think we need a trade
If we go in house I would want our lineup to look like this:
  1. Pierre - CF
  2. Walker - 1B
  3. ARam - 3B
  4. Jones - RF (shudder, but hey, he can't possibly be worse than he has been)
  5. Murton - LF
  6. Barrett - C
  7. Hairston - 2B
  8. Cedeno - SS
  9. Pitcher's spot
But, I think we're probably gonna need to trade for somebody.  Over at Allcubs.com the poster suggested trading for Ross Gload, a 1B on the White Sox.  He is old, but he can hit, and the White Sox have nowhere to put him.  Kenny Williams would have to decide to trade w/us which is questionable but check out Gload's numbers over at baseballprospectus.com.  I'd rather have him than Mabry at 1st.  Maybe this is wishful thinking, but i don't think it's out of the realm of possibility and he would probably be less expensive than everybody except for maybe Choi or Durazo and perhaps Nevin.  Basically he's cheap cause he's old (30) and useless to the 1B mongers on the South Side.  Then the lineup could look like this

Pierre
Walker
Aramis
Jones (shudder again)
Gload
Murton
Barrett
Cedeno

I feel better about that one.

by tal1286 on Apr 21, 2006 12:04 PM CDT reply actions  

j.t. snow
If we want a first baseman who can scoop up the bad throws by cedeno and aramis, J.T. Snow is a gold glove winning first baseman who already has a relationship with Dusty from his playing days in SF.   While his bat may not be good, it's not much worse than who would be replacing Lee in the lineup.

by Buffalo Cubby on Apr 21, 2006 12:05 PM CDT reply actions  

Mark Grace...
Why don't we ask Gracie to come out of retirement? Bet he can still hit...
It will happen...someday!

by bergs55 on Apr 21, 2006 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

What the Cubs need...
Is for our current players to step up.  This is the time when the team proves if it's a TEAM or a bunch of players that will fold when we hit a bump in the road.  

Ramirez needs to hit the way he is capable of hitting and Pierre needs to get on base more then 28% of the time.  This was a very big loss for us but things happen (yes, it seems more often for the Cubs then others but that's life) and we can only hope that this fires up our team instead of make them all feel the season is over and they just roll over.  

"we got motherf'in snakes on our motherf'in plane!" -Samuel L. Jackson

by DTJchris on Apr 21, 2006 12:25 PM CDT reply actions  

agree
yeah this is time for Aramis to step up to his potential, and come through with the huge year people have been predicting for years

by Buffalo Cubby on Apr 21, 2006 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

The worry is
that Ramirez will feel added pressure.  I think it's safe to say he'll eventually catch fire.  The bigger worry is Jones.

by BringBackRyno on Apr 21, 2006 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ramirez...
No doubt he'll feel pressure, he better feel pressure to start hitting up to his potential.  It's just a question if that pressure will cause him to thrive or fail.

This is what separates the good players from the great players...knowing that their team needs them when it really matters and stepping up to the plate.  That doesn't go for just Ramirez though, that goes for the whole team.  

"we got motherf'in snakes on our motherf'in plane!" -Samuel L. Jackson

by DTJchris on Apr 21, 2006 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed
I'm sick of hearing about pressure this and pressure that. These guys are professionals. Damn, I guarantee that none of them have felt as much pressure as I did when I was one day out of law school and had to do jury trial by myself when the client was looking at 25 years in the slammer. There is pressure in all walks of life, for all of us, every day. Most of us don't get the benefit of having someone worry about whether we are being rushed into too much responsiblity or under too much pressure.

These guys, and that included the youngins, must either deal with it or find another line of work. Just like everyone else.

"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Apr 21, 2006 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

But Julie
the problem with added pressure is that despite the fact that Aram usually is slow but picks up to all star pace, he is bound to swing harder and more often without Lee in front of him.  Hell, he was already doin too much of that before this hellish incident.

And FWIW...I despise Furcal now!  First he sticks it in our rears with his money grubbin decision (and __ tease) and now manages to send D Lee on a 60 day trip on a fairly routine collision at 1B.

SCREW RAFAEL FURCAL!

Anyone can have a bad century...

by Kinky Reggae on Apr 21, 2006 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Re
Yeah, but you talked him into taking the deal, right?

Unfortunately, there's no middle ground in baseball so as to avoid the all-or-nothing outcome.

by Jed Taylor on Apr 22, 2006 6:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

I am on board
for JT Snow, he is the best option, winner, great glove not a bad bat, Throw a young pitcher at Boston, we owe them one for Murton, get Snow in here
Where is Carmen Fanzone?

by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Apr 21, 2006 12:30 PM CDT reply actions  

If nothing else
Snow we could get Snow to be Darren Bakers bodyguard/
baby sitter.
I am ok with EITHER Snow or Choi but Snow might cost
too much

by jessica on Apr 21, 2006 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Snow...
...would likely cost less than Choi.  As a matter of fact the Red Sox would gladly be happy to be rid of him.  He's gotten a grand total of 12AB.  They signed snow as their backup 1B before Choi was available.

by jolietconvict on Apr 21, 2006 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Your right
I looked it up after. I think they use him as
defensive replacement from time to time.

by jessica on Apr 21, 2006 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

G-M
Quit talking about Brian Giles. He was never leaving San Diego. He wanted to stay in his home town. No other team had chance. Your implication is Hendry failed in an effort to get Giles. He didn't. Giles had no intention of leaving California. The Cardinals fans keep saying the same thing - they are  also wrong. Giles is sacrificing money/bigger stats elsewhere to play in SD. Petco is terrible for him, but apparently he doesn't care. He likes it in SD. So, stop harping on the "Giles" option. IT DIDN'T EXIST.

by Smooth Jazz Man San Diego on Apr 21, 2006 12:38 PM CDT reply actions  

Wow
Giles is really nuts.  He's insanely wealthy and has the option of living in dozens of different major cities and he chooses to live in San Diego?  With his family?  And all that great weather, beaches, fine restaurants and great views?  The guy is clearly insane.  He could have lived in St. Louis instead.  :-)

(By the way, you're a lucky bastard.)

Baseball can be summed up in one word--you never know--Joaquin Andujar

by Josh Timmers on Apr 21, 2006 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Why?
So he could pick his teeth and belch and fart and not stand out from the crowd?

by Jed Taylor on Apr 22, 2006 6:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

the most frequently repeated canard in cubdom
since we signed jones.

however -- even if it WERE true -- the cubs wouldn't know.

they never even pitched him an offer.

so we'll never know.

good work, andy macfail. nice job, jim hendry.

by gaius marius on Apr 21, 2006 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

D Lee will be fine, eventually.
Have we already forgotten Bill Mueller? After his injury in St. Louis, the Cubs felt they couldn't take a chance on re signing him. It was a gamble they had to take. I'd think we'd all agree Bill Mueller's performance has been outfriggin' standing since his rehab?????

by Smooth Jazz Man San Diego on Apr 21, 2006 12:44 PM CDT reply actions  

To be fair
The Cubs did want to re sign Mueller but only for
one year given his injury history. The Red Sox were
smarter and  offered two

by jessica on Apr 21, 2006 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Re
And his injury - shattering his kneecap - was more severe, too.

I think where DLee's really going to have the problem is turning on those inside pitches, which is really too bad, because when he learned how to do that, he closed the hole in his offense and pitchers couldn't get him out anymore by throwing there.  And the result was his 2005 performance.

by Jed Taylor on Apr 22, 2006 6:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

I want my Miggy!
I just heard Steve Stone making a push for Miguel Cabera. We would have to sell the farm, but he's a hell of a talent, and can play any where.  

by madtown on Apr 21, 2006 1:05 PM CDT reply actions  

no way
do I see that happening, what's his contract status next year?  How many Marlins do we need.

by mike bornemann @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Apr 21, 2006 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Miguel Cabrera would be awesome...
unfortunately, he's not for sale. Even if he were, he'd be dealt at the trade deadline when the most teams are clamoring for his bat, not just one team desperate for a fill-in at 1st.
The Cubs better shine 'fore twenty-oh-nine!

by Shawn Domagal-Goldman on Apr 21, 2006 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Cabrera
might be available, but boy oh boy would he cost a lot.  Felix Pie and Rich Hill wouldn't do it.  And a dozen teams would offer their top prospects to get the deal done.
Baseball can be summed up in one word--you never know--Joaquin Andujar

by Josh Timmers on Apr 21, 2006 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

FYI
There's A lot of discussion on this at El Birdos....
Only go there if you are ready for the comments.
To the blogger's credit, he is attempting to keep the tone of the comments....civil. Ain't working in many cases....

by Smooth Jazz Man San Diego on Apr 21, 2006 1:19 PM CDT reply actions  

let's not stoop to their level
let's go into their home and take this series
"we got motherf'in snakes on our motherf'in plane!" -Samuel L. Jackson

by DTJchris on Apr 21, 2006 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think
we'll have a great series after this injury and all band together but how long we can sustain it is anoher matter. Once that big bat is gone and teams realize how to pitch to us I'm worried about those 2 win-8 loss streaks. Stay above .500, that's the challenge.

by mrcubsfan on Apr 21, 2006 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

They seem
very well mannered about it. I was expecting more of the idiot Freezeland-type responses.

 They do however, seem deluded about the quality of their team this year...

by Matt Allison on Apr 21, 2006 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Give credit...
... to Larry, who runs VEB. He's a good guy, runs a top-notch site, and does try to keep the conversation civil.

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2006 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Re
I checked it out, and I'd have to agree.  He's apologizing for that?  LOL.  He must not have cut his teeth on Usenet.

by Jed Taylor on Apr 22, 2006 7:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

The Cardinals
are going to be down big time this year.

Of course, that's still probably enough to win the NL Central, which is down even more.

Baseball can be summed up in one word--you never know--Joaquin Andujar

by Josh Timmers on Apr 21, 2006 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

back-to-back 100-win seasons
will do that.

not that we'd know, i suppose. :)

by gaius marius on Apr 21, 2006 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

on second thought
a lot of people here seem to me to be deluded about the quality of this cub team -- and it won, what, 79 games last year?

by gaius marius on Apr 21, 2006 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ya had to do it
didn't you Gaius?
Anyone can have a bad century...

by Kinky Reggae on Apr 21, 2006 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Glad to see...
...that a good many of them show some class. The hell with all their comments about being losers. This team thus far has shown a lot of heart, and the bulk of our games against St. Louis come when Lee ought to be back in the lineup. All this means is that it'll be that much sweeter when we finally do pull it off. I'm not yet cowed into believing that this can't be the year, and I get the feeling that our team has the ability to face the adversity this year, unlike the past two. Let's win some freaking ballgames, and let's kick some Redbird ass.

by Perkins on Apr 21, 2006 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

ewing theory
has anyone ever read Bill Simmons' Ewing Theory on Espn? Although this doesn't look like a situation where it could come into effect, it is very possible.

by Buffalo Cubby on Apr 21, 2006 1:45 PM CDT reply actions  

Re
I'm going to guess that the Ewing Theory runs along the lines of everyone else on the Knicks expected Ewing to carry the team, so the rest of them sat back and waited for him to do it.  When he went down, the person who was 'responsible' for the team's winning was no longer playing, so the rest of them had to figure it out.

I think the difference here is that a large part of baseball is really about individuals and their cumulative performance.  In basketball, individuals kill the team's performance.  Which is why the NBA sucks and isn't worth watching until the finals of the playoffs when the one or two teams out of the entire league that do play a team game finally get to display for the umpteenth time what it takes to be winners.  Then next year, it's back to clearouts and not passing and boasting and thugging until the finals roll around again.

There's no replacing DLee, and no joint effort is going to cause a group of decent but not great players to fill his void with performances they otherwise wouldn't have had.

by Jed Taylor on Apr 22, 2006 7:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

When someone goes down like this...
do they go home and try to stay in shape, or will he be around the team?  It would be nice to keep some of his leadership.

by madtown on Apr 21, 2006 2:02 PM CDT reply actions  

The worst thing ...
About the Derrek Lee injury is that it gives the Cubs an excuse to stink, when in reality they weren't going to win WITH LEE HEALTHY ALL YEAR. They were already last or near last in OBP and walks. It was going to catch up with them.

So now, when all is said and done, we'll get another offseason of no major moves - with Hendry saying "But we'll have a healthy Derrek Lee all year." And of course, it will prevent us from seeing the real impact of Juan Pierre, so the chances of them resigning him go from little to none.

The reality is that this injury does not set the Cubs back one year, but likely two or three. And yet, it's their own fault. No team should be constructed to not be able to afford to lose any one player. Witness the Cardinals last season winning 100 games with no Scott Rolen. But Cubs teams are constructed to win of everything goes right.

by cubz1963 on Apr 21, 2006 2:20 PM CDT reply actions  

Man, I wish I could argue against this
While ARAM is more of our "Rolen" and DLee is our "PuJoLs", it comes down to the fact that Hendry did nothing to ensure the Cubs could survive an injury to either one of them.

Sad, sad... so sad.

"At the end of the day, don't tell me how rough the waters are... just get the ship into port." - Stoney

by BCurt10 on Apr 21, 2006 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

My reply to this argument....
is that there is nothing you can do to prepare for an injury like this. You can't have two Derek Lees or Pujols, I think the Cubs have a decent fill in player in Mabry/Restovich/Walker. Not even the Yankees could replace Jeter or A-Rod, or even Sheffield if they went down for half the season.
"Harlem Furniture......You'll like our style!"

by Imtrejo on Apr 21, 2006 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sure you can.
You can't sustain the exact level of performance; but you can have more than two very good hitters (eg. Pujols, Rolen, AND Edmonds).

by jolietconvict on Apr 21, 2006 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Your opinion
and that's fine...but the Cubs were definitely showing a shift to playing a different type of ball...small ball, smart ball call it what you want.  It is the same thing that got the Sox to the WS last year.

Lee is a huge loss and there are plenty of teams that can ill afford to lose one of their players.  Change your scenario to Pujols.  All of a sudden, Edmonds is their Aramis and needs some protection in the lineup.  Without his skills at 1B, who goes there..they got rid of Mabry.

The Cubs most certainly could have won, and will still succeed IMO, this is just a big challenge.

And for the record, the people at El Birdos are pretty civil, except that one loud mouth who appears to have made his life mission to hate on the Cubs...probably backlash from their getting swept by a team he commonly refers to as a bunch of losers with loser mentality.

I think we all know who the loser is:

glamberson!

Anyone can have a bad century...

by Kinky Reggae on Apr 21, 2006 2:26 PM CDT reply actions  

yeah...
that guy is pretty horrible.  Do you remember in The Naked Gun when that woman falls from onto Reggie Jackson?  Hopefully that happens to him.
"we got motherf'in snakes on our motherf'in plane!" -Samuel L. Jackson

by DTJchris on Apr 21, 2006 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

why did the Sox win?
The same Sox who were fourth in the AL in homers and got caught stealing more than any other team in the league?  Sounds to me like 'smart ball' means hitting the ball over the fence so that Scott Podsednik won't get caught stealing.  (Or, in the case of the WS, having Podsednik hit the ball over the fence so that he won't get caught stealing.)

Don't get me wrong, I'd still love to have their trophy.  I'm just of the opinion that this lineup needs to be more careful about how they make outs, not less.

by dustyisdonnie on Apr 21, 2006 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fine
that is how you read their play last year.  I for one saw a team who moved the runner over when necessary, came through with clutch hits when necessary, and had some power in the lineup.

Smart ball means to me...not relying on the long ball to win your games alone.  We have the makings now with Pierre, Cedeno, Murton, and even Jones.

Anyone can have a bad century...

by Kinky Reggae on Apr 21, 2006 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Most important thing for White Sox
was probably their pitching.  Don't get me wrong, they had great situational hitting, but they would not have won the W.S. if not for career years by 3 of their starting pitchers.
"we got motherf'in snakes on our motherf'in plane!" -Samuel L. Jackson

by DTJchris on Apr 21, 2006 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Very true.
I stand (kind of) corrected.
Anyone can have a bad century...

by Kinky Reggae on Apr 21, 2006 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

pitching was key, yes
Agreed on the pitching (and defense) point, but when it comes to the runs that they did score...

They were ninth in the league in runs, and fourth in the league in homers.  About the only thing that they weren't pretty average at doing was hitting the ball out of the park.  (They were third in stolen bases, but led the league in caught stealing, leading to about a 67% success rate.  That's about the lowest that I've seen listed as a break-even point for gaining runs by stealing bases; some folks have the break-even point up at 75%.)  I'm not sure how that information can be interpreted any other way.

I'm all for having guys who can steal at a high success rate do so, but if you try to run with guys who can't do it, you're wasting outs.  This team now needs more chances than before to get runners around to score owing to the fact that they lost a big power source.  Why waste your outs?

Somebody bring back Earl Weaver.  Quick.

by dustyisdonnie on Apr 21, 2006 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

They scored...
...more of their runs via the homerun than any other team in baseball.  They won with pitching, defense, and homeruns.

by jolietconvict on Apr 21, 2006 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

it should also be noted that...
...a runner can score from first as easily on a homer as he can from third.

by dustyisdonnie on Apr 21, 2006 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Brickhouse
As Jack Brickhouse used to say, "the Cubs are just snakebit". Hopefully, they CAN overcome this major setback. The '89 team, at one time, had Dawson, Grace, Walton, Mitch, & Dunston on extended DL time, & they did not have the talent this team has, and they still won the division. Of course, I don't think Dusty is a Zimmer.

by KedzieKid on Apr 21, 2006 3:14 PM CDT reply actions  

Rosenthal
Some people are alredy counting the cubs out. I cant stand this. This is an obstacle not a road block. It really sucks yes, but theres no reason to think the cubs cant overcome it.

by RB on Apr 21, 2006 3:19 PM CDT reply actions  

How many Marlins do we need?
Dontrelle Willis, for one -- when he is ready to flee South Florida. I don't see him leading the league in simulated games or towel throwing.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Apr 21, 2006 10:32 PM CDT reply actions  

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