What Does It Feel Like To Win?

by Al Yellon on Jun 20, 2006 9:03 AM CDT in Chicago Cubs Recaps

Late in the Cubs' 12-8 win over the Indians last night, I was flipping channels during a commercial break and landed on the Stanley Cup Finals.

The game was almost over, so I decided to watch, to see what it was like for fans of a team that had never won anything, to celebrate a championship at their home.

I felt nothing, of course, because the Carolina Hurricanes are barely a blip on my radar, and in fact, there are a lot of disaffected fans of the team's former incarnation as the Hartford Whalers who are mightily pissed off that ownership slunk off to Raleigh even though the team's attendance had started to rise.

Players celebrated. Fans celebrated. Yes, hockey shouldn't be played in late June, I know.

Someday, the Cubs -- and we -- will celebrate like that. I feel it. Will it be soon? No, not with this team.

But, last night was nice, to see the Cubs put together more runs than they had in their last four games put together -- even though Ryan Dempster decided to make it interesting before it was all over. This is the danger you run into when you haven't had a situation where your closer has pitched in a closing situation in over a week; Dempster has now thrown two days in a row, in a blowout loss and a blowout win, and that's simply not conducive to a guy whose mindset has been to finish out wins for the last season and a half. Dempster has a save in only a little more than 1/3 of his total appearances this year.

The rest of the team did just fine against Jason Johnson and three Cleveland relievers. If this has to be the time for Michael Barrett's suspension, maybe it IS well-timed. Henry Blanco is now 13 for his last 24, with 3 HR and 11 RBI in his last seven games, tied a career high with 4 RBI, and is now 17-for-36 lifetime at Jacobs Field. His average has gone from .051 to .238 in that time.

Len & Bob said -- and I do not think they were being facetious -- that Blanco might get serious consideration for last week's NL Player of the Week award (he was 10-for-20 with 2 HR and 7 RBI last week).

In the end, of course, this doesn't mean much, other than ending the six-game losing streak.

A couple of notes: there was a "group interview" with Dusty Baker, involving Chicago and Cleveland reporters. Bruce Miles reports in the Daily Herald:

There continues to be every indication that general manager Jim Hendry will allow Baker to manage with his full complement of players, including first baseman Derrek Lee, who may remain on the disabled list until July because of two broken bones near his right wrist.

Meanwhile, Paul Sullivan in the Tribune asked Baker about his future with the Cubs, and got this in response:

"I really don't know how it's going to work out," he said. "One thing about me, you don't have to worry about me losing faith. How it's going to work out? I really don't know, but worrying about it is not going to help. It's always worked out for me the rest of my life, so why wouldn't I think it's going to work out now?"

Which, I know, doesn't say much. Mike Kiley's article in the Sun-Times reports the same quote, but also adds:

Baker was asked if he still would like to stay in Chicago when his original four-year term expires after this season. "Oh, yeah," he said. "I came here to win it."

Jay Mariotti says the Cubs ought to hire Bob Brenly -- an idea that's been shot down on several occasions by Brenly himself. I still think firing Baker at this point would accomplish nothing, other than satisfy all of you calling for someone's head. Let's let the season play out, and then re-evaluate afterwards.

Finally, Jeff Passan at Yahoo has again written a scathingly good column about the idiotic MLB blackout rules:

There is a hilarious commercial playing on the radio these days. It is for Major League Baseball's online video-streaming service, and the announcer states with all the zeal of a snake-oil salesman: "Sign up for MLB.TV and never miss a game again!"

Bill Reed is the punch line. He misses lots of games. For the last two years, Reed has subscribed to MLB.TV, and because he happens to live in Keokuk, Iowa, he has been subjected to baseball's television blackout rules rooted in the game's dark ages.

"I am closest to St. Louis (three hours away), yet I am blacked out for being 'local market' by my ZIP code for the following teams: Chicago Cubs, Chicago White Sox, St. Louis Cardinals, Kansas City Royals, Minnesota Twins and the Milwaukee Brewers!" Reed wrote. "Tell me how I am considered local market for six different teams."

Exactly. Take a look, in fact, at the MLB territorial coverage map that's linked at Passan's column. There are "territories" that are literally hundreds of miles from the host city. How on Earth does it benefit ANYONE to block viewing of a ballgame for someone a seven-hour drive from the ballpark?

Idiots. Maybe eventually they'll figure it out, but I doubt it. Until then, baseball is in the Stone Age when it comes to marketing its product, and then they wonder why they can't make more money on broadcast rights and sales.

Tweet Comment 80 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

Dempster

I am sick of people apologizing for this guy. Pitchers have one job to do: get batters out. It does not matter if they are starters or relief pitchers, they must get guys out. The situation in which they enter the game does not matter, they have to get guys out.

Dempster has still blown 3 of his last 7 save oppertunities, and in his most recent 2 saves allowed ERs in each. He is an unreliable closer.

Chicks dig the long ball

by Will23 on Jun 20, 2006 9:22 AM CDT reply actions

rabble rabble

rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble!!

...the artist formerly priorpwnz.

by Faith plus 1 on Jun 20, 2006 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions

Ok,

who else starting singing the CarX song? Just me?

she

by Sarah Hope on Jun 20, 2006 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions

there's a car x song?

n/t

...the artist formerly priorpwnz.

by Faith plus 1 on Jun 20, 2006 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions

Dempster

Dempster is overrated. Always has been, dating back to his days in Florida. That being said, I can't get too worried about the closer role when we are talking about a team 15 games under .500 with massive holes all over the place and a lousy farm system. If I'm Hendry, I trade Dempster to the highest bidder in the next month. I also offer up Howry, Eyre and Williamson. Playoff contending teams ALWAYS pay a king's ransom for bullpen help. What's the point of having Dempster, et al when the team is in the toilet and will be for the forseeable future.

by Mike63 on Jun 20, 2006 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions

These wins always.....

Oops hit return too soon.

These wins always make me more angry. One of those "Oh is this how you wanted us to play?" kind of games. At least it somewhat validates my frustration and dissapointment.

That's what I thought Juan Pierre would be doing when we traded for him. (Even though I thought we overpaid for him. I also thought we had to.)

That's the Jaque Jones that was a good player for the Twins that I thought we were getting when we signed him.

That's what I thought Ronny Cedeno was going to provide.

And so it goes.

Don't get me wrong. I'm much happier when the Cubs win. I just would like to see more than the occasional glimpse of a good team.

BTW Will, Mariano Rivera has two blown saves and 4 losses. I suppose this makes him unreliable too. Maybe Dempster's just having a slump, for all the reasons that have been provided. No one is making apologies for him. Just viewing him with a propper perspective.

by yahoodi on Jun 20, 2006 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions

Rivera..

..has 1 BS out of his last 13 save oppertunities. It is the manner in which he pitches that makes him reliable. Either he slams the door shut and records the save, or gets hammered and blows it. Lately, Dempster seemingly flirts with disaster on the mound and gets burned. So call it a slump or bad luck, either way he is unreliable.

Chicks dig the long ball

by Will23 on Jun 20, 2006 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions

Mitch Williams....

... used to pitch like that, too, always on edge, walking tons of people. Yet, he got the job done.

Dempster hasn't been as good as he was last year, and part of the reason is that he has not gotten CONSISTENT save opportunities, because the team simply hasn't BEEN in save situations.

by Al Yellon on Jun 20, 2006 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions

That is where..

..we disagree. To me, pitchers all have the same job. The consistency and situational differences with which they play is irrelevant. Look at Rusch; he has sucked all season, both out of the bullpen and starting. It is his pitching that makes him ineffective, not where he is used. Now, that isn't to say that pitchers can't specialize in one area, but their job is ultimately the same. Therefore, the frequency that they pitch in that specialty should have no bearing on the judgement of their performance.

Chicks dig the long ball

by Will23 on Jun 20, 2006 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions

that is 100% false

The consistency and situational differences with which they play is irrelevant.

It does matter as you mentally prepare to get in a game. As a former closer in college and the minors, I can tell you that it absolutely matters. If the game is a blow out, you do not expect to have to warm up much less enter a game. Hitters have no pressure and can free wheel it a bit too. It's not all about numbers all the time. We shouldn't bury our heads in the sand about the context of when he pitches.

Should he be judged, YES. But to say he stinks because he gives up 4 runs in a meaningless inning isn't telling the whole story.

by socalbob on Jun 20, 2006 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions

We aren't discussing..

..the differences in the mental preperation between starting and closing games. And I did not say that Dempster stinks because he gave up 4 runs with an 8 run cushion. I am saying pitchers all have the same job; get hitters out. Just because a closer may be not be in closing situations frequently does not afford them an excuse for poor performance, because, every time a pitcher is in a game he has the same job.

Chicks dig the long ball

by Will23 on Jun 20, 2006 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions

ultimately, YES

but you are missing the point. Players are human and the mental aspect is missing in your analysis. If he blows a bunch of 1-run games in a row, then your argument is vaild. But to not take the context of pitching in the game sitaution is not accurate in terms of evaluating his performance.

Hitters just hit, right? Situations don't matter. Why do we track RISP, RC, 7 inning or later, etc.? If I were to use your analysis, we would just look at batting average then.

by socalbob on Jun 20, 2006 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions

Again,

We aren't discussing the differences in the mental preperation between starting and closing games. We are discussing the FREQUENCY (i.e. how often) that a pitcher is used in their role and how that should affect the judgement of their performance.

Chicks dig the long ball

by Will23 on Jun 20, 2006 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions

Bob is correct...

... and that's where those of you who look strictly at stats forget that human beings play this game, and the correct mental approach to the game is vital.

Corey Patterson's performance last year is a good example of that. So was Kyle Farnsworth's, all the time he was here. Prime examples of extremely talented physical specimens who just didn't understand how the game works.

The frequency and situations in which a closer works can ABSOLUTELY affect his performance. Closers like to work 3-4 times a week in closing situations. Dempster has had VERY few save opps. in the last six weeks. It DOES make a difference.

Also -- Bob's telling you the truth. He was indeed a college and pro pitcher. I'd trust his judgment on this, because he has actually been there.

by Al Yellon on Jun 20, 2006 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions

I appreciate..

..his unique perspective as a former player and never called it in to question. Citing Patterson and Farnsworth only reinforce my arguments; that no matter where they bat in the lineup or what role in the bullpen they provide, either they are playing well or they aren't. That is why it doesn't matter if Neifi bats 2nd or 6th, or if Pierre hit in the 8 spot, because they both have played terribly, and at a remarkably consistent level.

Think about it this way: if I'm a closer, regardless if my team is up by 1 run or down by 8, my mindset is that "I need to get outs." Period. There is no in-between, "I have some cushion" mentality that is acceptable, because I would eventually get burned. And if that is how Dempster or anyone other closer approaches it, then shame on them. That is why the situation doesn't matter. That is why, regardless of the scenario that a pitcher is entering, his performance is evaluated based on how they throw, that game, that inning, that pitch.

And that is why the excuse of "Well, he hasn't been in save oppertunities lately" is insulting. If you are standing on the hill and have a ball in your hand, then you have one job to do.

Chicks dig the long ball

by Will23 on Jun 20, 2006 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions

Boy you couldn't be more wrong

Have you ever pitched? I also pitched, college, not pro, and did close, a seven run lead and an one run lead is different. Take it this way when you start and you give up a first inning run, the game is not over, you move on to the second and go from there, as a closer in a ONE run game your mindset, is shutdown now, do not give up a run and the game, a eight run lead like last night, Dempster is basically getting his work in, whole different set of circumstances, how you can not see that is odd.

"Just not getting any breaks" Johnnie Baker

by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Jun 20, 2006 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions

There is a bit of truth to what you say

but I'd disagree regarding the pitcher's mental state in game with a 1 run lead v. 8 run lead. When you have an 8 run lead you can approach the task with less focus and even less talent because leads of that size almost never are overcome, i.e., it doesn't matter who you pitch in relief in those moments your absolute worst guy can get it done.

Put your absolute best guy in that situation and it is like mop-up, who gives a crap time. The pitcher may still want to focus and work on something important to tweak in his game, but statistically speaking it doesn't matter who pitches. When employees in any job are performing "mop-up" tasks they tend not to give a hoot...

A player's role and how he is used matters quite a bit in the sense that the MANAGER is supposed to be able to use them towards their strengths and this is why it was idiotic for Baker to keep imposing the lead-off role on patterson, not any statistical reason...Anyone who watched him play would notice the immense talent and the lack of knowledge of the K zone. But let's keep forcing him to bat leadoff because we need that speed and his power is of no value to us...

In an ideal world players and employees take every job they have with the utmost seriousness all of the time. When you are making 5+ million per year and they put you in with a huge lead, it's safe to sayy that you may not conentrate in those instances.

Now, that's a different argument than whether Dempster is an effective pitcher in general. For that you turn to his performance that he has some control over: for pitchers it's walk rates, K rates, and HRs, and look at the type of pitcher he is relative to your home park and for a closer you'd like a guy with low WHIP because they usually have less margin for error when they appear. This isn't a stat. fiesta, these are simply the improtant basic metrics for evluating a pitcher. As an example, look at Howry, he's a flyball pitcher who until last year was bleow average K rates. Giving up lots of fly balls in late innings in WQrigley can get you killed, might not be a good match for the Cubs. With Dempster, I haven't looked at what he has done...Okay, looking at his stats, has had a abd June...for the year his K/BB is 2/1, but in jone it's even. I have no idea why he is struggling with control, could be just a slump, not really enough to evlauate...

In 2005 he had a 2/1 K/BB rate as a reliever and gave up one HR in 58.1 IP, that's very good. Still only one year to look at so there's always some uncertainty when you only have one season...

This season he has given up 1 HR in 32 IP...

For whatever reason he has walked moe recently that's all I can say...

He is ideal to use as trade bait, and the Cubs have enough arms int heir system to fill out their bullpen. Depmster hasn't performed long enough to be "untouchable" but it'd have to be one amazing offer...I would have huge respect for hendry again if he did try to sell dempster while his value was sky high and the market gave us outstanding talent in return. It's the type of shift in thinking that I advocate for Cubs management, but at the same time, Dempster has doen everything and more than the Cubs expected of him as a closer.

by DudeVf1 on Jun 21, 2006 1:11 AM CDT up reply actions

You are clearly NOT

differentiating between the various roles Dempster could pitch in. He is our closer. Judge him on how HE CLOSES GAMES. To do that you need to look at him in that very context. To say he sucks or is unreliable because of how he pitches in meaningless mop-up innings doesn't tell the whole story. That's a key difference mop-up in a lopsided game and closing a 1-run game.

The difference in starting has never been mentioned by me. Don't know how that got looped into this conversation. And now FREQUENCY in terms of judging performance? Your last post makes no sense.

Do you agree or not that he should be judged on how he closes games in determining his reliability? Not on every outing especially the meaningless innings her-and-there.

For clarity: my understanding of your position is "NOT" to the above question. You feel he should be judged on every outing regardless of the circumstance. I disagree with that for the above stated reasons.

by socalbob on Jun 20, 2006 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions

He is judged..

..on how he throws, just like every other pitcher. And as mentioned in the first post of the open thread: Dempster has still blown 3 of his last 7 save oppertunities, and in his most recent 2 saves allowed ERs in each. If that isn't unreliable, then I don't know what is.

Chicks dig the long ball

by Will23 on Jun 20, 2006 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions

Also

I might add, this Cub team is horrible, that my friend has a lot to do with the mindset on all the players that includes Dempster, Cubs were once 14-10 now 27-42, you do the math, losing wears on a player, and you don't think so, you are missing the boat.

"Just not getting any breaks" Johnnie Baker

by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Jun 20, 2006 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions

True

Lately he's been unreliable. And he doesn't throw enough strikes to be flat out dominating. But he has been incredibly effective up until the last month or so.

But he is our closer. Whatever adjective you want to describe him. And I'll take him there over Hawkins ,Borowski, aand evry one else who preceeded him and anyone on the current Cubs staff right now.

by yahoodi on Jun 20, 2006 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions

The 2003 Borowski?

Cause I'd rather have that guy than Dempster.

"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Jun 20, 2006 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions

Sure, and...

... I'd love to have the 1998 Rod Beck, or the 1993 Randy Myers, or the 2003 Eric Gagne, for that matter.

But we don't.

I still think Kerry Wood would make a good closer.

by Al Yellon on Jun 20, 2006 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions

Dempster playing injured?

I believe you were speculating that Dempster was playing injured a few weeks back. Do you still think that is a possibility?

by baturkey on Jun 20, 2006 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions

Dempster

You're right on. No more excuses for his crummy performance. It's always, "Oh, he hasn't pitched in a long time, so he's rusty," or, "Oh, it's not a save situation." What a load of bull.

by danimal15 on Jun 20, 2006 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions

Agreed!!

He should be able to pitch when asked to. If he can't do that , try someone else. Who?? Good question!

by northofwrigley on Jun 20, 2006 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions

Yes well...

if guys could just turn it on all the time and do what they do or what we ant them to do, then we should be crushing freddie Bynum for not breaking Dimagio's hitting streak...Ease up up on poor Freddie and dempster...

Dempster has 28 Ks in 32 IP in 2006, he's walked some more guys in June, big deal. If the Cubs' coaching staff knows that he is injured or something, then yes, they should try and trade him, but hitters and pitchers do have slumps during a season. It doesn't have to be the mindset or when he was used or anything, he has had one poor month this season, so what? The guy really is the least of our worries.

When you average nearly a K per inning, your K/BB is 2/1 and you give up one HR in 32+ innings, you are for all intents and purposes kicking ass in what the team is asking from you. Whether you always save the game is not necessarily going to happen because sometimes guys have to play D behind you and sometimes the offense has to score. But Dempster has done his job very well so far and should not apologize to anyone...

by DudeVf1 on Jun 21, 2006 1:25 AM CDT up reply actions

right

"This is the danger you run into when you haven't had a situation where your closer has pitched in a closing situation in over a week; Dempster has now thrown two days in a row, in a blowout loss and a blowout win, and that's simply not conducive to a guy whose mindset has been to finish out wins for the last season and a half."

Right, its not because batters realized he throws a lot of balls, and unlike our team, they actually take walks.

"I still think firing Baker at this point would accomplish nothing, other than satisfy all of you calling for someone's head."

unless of course you wanted to be good next year, you could get rid of the hack and pout nad find out whch guys should be here next year.

by mike bornemann @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jun 20, 2006 9:35 AM CDT reply actions

i was really happy

to see the speculation start in full force about baker being fired. once the local and mass media start the daily questioning about a manager being fired, it usually isn't more than a month before they're gone.

by tomas21 on Jun 20, 2006 10:33 AM CDT reply actions

Amen.

Me too. I practically jumped for joy when I saw the headline this morning, as non-commital and vague as it was. At least the issue of Baker NOT being extended has been raised in the mainstream media. Hallelujah.

"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Jun 20, 2006 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions

Interesting....

if you remember past scandals, TribCo has used the press to discredit or float stories about players they wanted gone.

Could this be Dusty's turn???????

He who really has to study.....

I went to Wrigley and all I got was this crappy "In Dusty We Trusty" shirt!

by timeforachange on Jun 20, 2006 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions

How can you possibly

be in favor of keeping Baker at this point? The season is lost, so why not give someone else a shot for the rest of the season? Who knows, maybe the new guy does a nice job, the way Garner did for Houston. I don't see the down side of putting Dusty out of his misery. The season's already over. And there's no way Cubs management can resign him after this season, so why not move on already? It's time.

by cubsbak on Jun 20, 2006 10:40 AM CDT reply actions

I cannot stand Baker...

I think he is terrible, but I agree that firing him now is pointless. he should finish out the season and be evaluated then. I think the Cubs should come out and say this to end the speculation about firing him during the season.

That Hendry does not come out and say this is strange, but I only know now that I should expect the most absurd from the Cubs management team.

As much as I criticize hendry/Baker/McPhail for hendry he puts his whoe life into this and I am sure that he wants to give Dusty the extension. But I fear that he plays too much to media acceptance. If Dusty is your guy, okay then he is the guy and I have to accept it as does everyone else, but make him your guy based on what you think about his capabilities as a manager noty whether this stupid sorry team sudenly pulls off 4 straight Ws. If you are waiting for that streak then you might as well demote Dempster to AAA based on his poor June. Have some balls, quit being so touchy about media criticswim (a real trademark of hendry/Baker) and extend Baker. Cubs fans ahve endured it all we can put up with 3 more years of Neifis, speed grass and dudes and whatever...

by DudeVf1 on Jun 21, 2006 1:33 AM CDT up reply actions

Bynum had 3 hits

making Dusty look good for throwing his corpse on the field last night. Dusty will never forget, and Freddie has a job for life, or as long as Dusty is manager. And so the platoon and the end of Matt Murtons career begins...........

by pageian on Jun 20, 2006 10:48 AM CDT reply actions

Maybe

he can go hit .350 for someone else like Adam Greenberg is doing:

Former Cubs prospect Adam Greenberg was hitting .350 with one home run and four RBIs in his first eight games for the Dodgers' Double-A team in Jacksonville.

In other news:

Nate Spears (.223 average) and Carlos Perez (0-4), the prospects acquired from Baltimore in January for Corey Patterson, are both struggling at Class A Daytona.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Jun 20, 2006 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions

careful julie

you're toeing a line. the next line in your last post could, by extrapolation, contain the word "flubbies".

watch it.

by tomas21 on Jun 20, 2006 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions

What are you implying?

That I am in the process of becoming a troll?

You have offended my honor, sir! (takes out white glove)

slap slap slap slap slap slap slap slap!!!!!

Good day, sir!

"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Jun 20, 2006 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions

lol

nobut usually posts that start out referencing the cubs failures, then the long laugh line (hahahahahaha, or even worse bwahahahahah) are followed by calling the cubs the flubbies.

it was a joke

by tomas21 on Jun 20, 2006 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions

As was mine

Also joking.

usually posts that start out referencing the cubs failures, then the long laugh line (hahahahahaha, or even worse bwahahahahah) are followed by calling the cubs the flubbies

Usually, but not always. More and more frequently, they are followed by the sig lines of life-long fans who are slowly coming unglued. .

"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Jun 20, 2006 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions

Murton should be platooning

Pitchers have figured him out. This guy has a natural inside out swing and a massive Hee Seop Choish hole in his swing on pitches in. He absolutely CAN NOT pull a pitch inside to save his career. Anything in is a little dribbler to the pitcher or 3rd basemen.

Murton at one point was a good looking prospect but right now at this point, is being overrated by Cub fans for whatever reasons. Maybe it's the red hair, I don't know. I mean I can see why you would root for the guy, afterall he is a very likeable figure but to me anyway, not a very likeable player anymore.

Pitchers are on to him and so am I. I think it would be in his best interest to be sent down and reinvent his swing, cuz he'll never hit an inside pitch with that swing. Especially an inside pitch from Righties.

by escapegoat on Jun 20, 2006 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions

Sounds familiar...

Remember that big, tall first baseman that we had that could NOT handle the inside pitch. He could only it when his arms were fully extended. Pitchers pounded him on the inside and he kept making weak outs.

Finally, he made adjustments to his swings, and he didn't turn out too bad.

What was his name again???? It rhymes with Derrek Lee.

It's hard to tell if Murton will ever make the adjustments (that nearly every rookie has to do), but I think we have to give him a fair chance to do so. It's much easier to coach a player to turn on an inside pitch (e.g. Sandberg) than it is to teach patience and taking the ball the "other way".

by Ghost of Fred Merkle on Jun 20, 2006 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions

Bad Comparison..

D Lee is 6'5 and has gigantic arms and until last year struggled in the Majors on the inside pitch cuz it's alot harder to get your hands in on a MLB fastball than at any other level, especially when you have armes the size if some adults. Plus he has POWER. The Comparison isn't valid IMO.

Murton has a natural hole in his swing and likes to dive.

I also don't agree with your assessment that it's easier to pull a ball than to hit the ball the other way. Atleast not at the ML level. Sure in Little League where hitters are years ahead of the pitchers it's easier to pull the ball and in fact is instinctive.
But at the MLB level, it's much easier to take a fastball away and go the other way than to pull an inside fastball, especially when you have a hole in your swing as bad and noticeable as Murton does.

Can he restructure his swing and someday get around on the inside fastball? Absolutely. But he won't be able to do it at this level. Murton really would benefit from another half a season in the minors to work out the kinks in that swing.

Murton was a top prospect and did well at lower levels pulling those levels of fastballs, which is why he was a top prospect at one time. Struggled at next level and then was traded and now the book on him is fastball in. He must improve on this weakness and prove he can do something other than roll it out to the pitcher, if he ever wants to have a successful MLB career.

by escapegoat on Jun 20, 2006 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions

D Lee and Power

He did not have power his first three years in the majors. He had slugging of .370, .417 and .326. If he had been a Cub...

But hey, young ball players produced by the Cubs are expected to be fully formed and perfect in every way when they arrive from the Minors. And if they are not, they must immediately be discarded for a proven Veteran. After all, the Cubs have been so very successful with using only veterans.

by Frustrated Fan on Jun 20, 2006 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions

well...

And if they are not, they must immediately be discarded for a proven Veteran.

Seems to work well for the Yankess, doesn't it? I'd rather have thier track record than ours.

by socalbob on Jun 20, 2006 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions

well

if DLee didn't paly good defense then maybe we wouldn't even be talkign abotu him, hemight have been tossed away early. Murton doesn;t have that going for him either, so he better figure it out quick.

by mike bornemann @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jun 20, 2006 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions

More "sounds familiar"

Dusty, is that YOU?!?! I KNEW you were a BCB reader!

The point is that young players HAVE to make adjustments. If they don't, they don't stick around. If they do, then they do.

Dusty, Murton may or may not make the adjustments, but you have to give him a chance....especially in a lost season. Obviously, he'll never have immense power but he has the chance to be a stable hitter.

by Ghost of Fred Merkle on Jun 20, 2006 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions

Or another comparison

would be to a player like Joe Crede. He has been at third base for 4 seasons now.

His first year he hit .260, second year .239, last year .250, now this year he is arguably one of the best 3rd basemen in the AL, hitting around 300.
Im not saying that Murton is going to be anything better than a 4th outfielder, but sometimes players need alot of AB's before they figure things out.
For years, White Sox fans were wanting to launch Crede for a bag of balls...don't think they want to do that now.

by RickRueschelsPaunch on Jun 20, 2006 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions

Strangely

Over the past couple of weeks I have noticed that Murton sometimes wants to inside-out inside pitches and pull outside pitches. Not sure what he's thinking exactly...

I see nothing wrong with platooning him for the time being as AAA pitching won't teach him much of anything.

by salparadise23 on Jun 20, 2006 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions

Murton is a 5th outfielder

Murton has zero discernible strength to his game and is restricted to playing only position on the field. Unless there is a situation where he can be a platoon mate in left field or becomes nicely adept at pinch hitting, he's destined to be in an annual struggle for a major league job. He reminds me a lot of a right-handed version of Jim Tracy who had a cup of coffee with the Cubs back in the late 70's. I suspect Murton will don several major league uniforms over a relatively brief major league career.

by Mike63 on Jun 20, 2006 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions

Murton is in a slump

He should not be discarded. To say that he has no discernable strenghts is misleading at best and ignorant at worst. Plate discipline is one of the hardest things to teach, if it can be taught at all. He has that. Every player goes through slumps. Maddux is in a slump. Pierre is in a slump. Zambrano went through a slump. Why in gods name are you so bent on dumping him because he's in a slump. You don't think he can hit? He could certainly hit earlier this year and all of last year. Did he forget? No, you say the pitchers have figured him out. Well, pitchers have figured out almost every hitter in the history of the game save for a few. Did they all quit or were they discarded by their team. Give Murton a chance for crying out loud. Let the guy play and see what he can do, see if he can figure it out. Maybe he's our 5th outfielder next year, but for now he's the better of all the options we have, so shut up and let him play.

by pageian on Jun 20, 2006 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions

Murton

can not hit an inside fastball. If you watch any of the games you'd have noticed that by now. He's not hitting inside fastballs cuz he's in a "slump" he's not hitting inside fastballs cuz he has a hole in his swing and handcuffs himself.

and yes, pitchers have figured that out and yes if you have a weakness pitchers will figure it out and which is why he is hitting .224 against Right handed Pitching, cuz they have indeed figured that out.

Back to my point: Matt Murton right now is nothing BUT a platoon player and why Cub fans think anything else confounds me.

by escapegoat on Jun 20, 2006 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions

My point is

what's the point of giving up on him now? You want more Bynum?

Question: Name one player who had a hole in his game when he was young and went on to be a good player. Answer: All of them.

He's slumping. When we sign Carlos Lee to replace him, do we give up on him the first time he goes through a slump?

Do we give up on Pie when he enters the first slump of his career?

Thank God Greg Maddux was great his first year, otherwise we would never have found out how good he is. Oh wait... his first full year he had a 5.61 era. Well, good thing he didn't have any holes in his game, cause we know young guys never fix that stuff!

Can't hit an inside fastball? Neither could a lot of other players who played the game, but they learned how because their teams didn't give up on them.

Maybe he is a platoon player, but I'd rather see him playing everyday right now to find out. We don't need Mabry, Bynum etc... not cloggin up the bases with walks. And don't quote his batting average against right handers. BA is the most overrated stat. Why? Because OBP is a much better indicator of a hitters ability to get on base, hence the acronym OBP. Murton can get on base against anyone because he has plate discipline. Jones on the other hand can't hit lefties and doesn't take walks from anyone. I'll take the higher obp over the higher ba anyday.

by pageian on Jun 20, 2006 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions

Btw...

Isn't it a bit reactionary to give up on a player when he has the very first slump of his career? Do you REALLY think you can judge a player as unfit because he's slumping for the very first time in the majors? You must be one hell of a scout..... Your a visionary because you already know Murton is destined to be a platoon player/5th outfielder this early in his career. You should be making millions of dollars working for a major league team because you'd save them all that time and money they waste now trying to find out if guys can play or not.

Do you see the point I'm trying to make here??

by pageian on Jun 20, 2006 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions

who's giving up on him?

what are you talking about.

by escapegoat on Jun 21, 2006 2:34 AM CDT up reply actions

Ditto

n/t

Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Jun 20, 2006 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions

MLB TV blackout

I live in Manila. The downside is that I cannot go to any parks and see a game live. The upside is that I am not blocked out from any team or any game.

There are only 2 things in the world that both young men and old men can enjoy without understanding them: Baseball and Women

by 10man on Jun 20, 2006 11:01 AM CDT reply actions

The MLB blackout rules are ridiculous...

...particularly when it comes to MLB TV. The most predictable market for such a service would be people who live in close proximity to MLB teams, yet the blackout rules make it impossible to watch a local team on the computer.

That said, the situation is curable. It's not curable with cable, but it is with DirecTV or Dish Network. I subscribe to DirecTV and their sports pack, which provides the regional sports networks and I am able to watch the Cubs, White Sox, and Reds ("local" teams for Indianapolis) on CSN or Fox Sports Ohio. The guy in Iowa could have a really good deal if he goes that route, because he would have access to six teams for $10 a month (the cost of the DTV sports pack), as opposed to the exorbitant cost of MLB Extra Innings.

by John in Indy on Jun 20, 2006 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions

MLB blackout rules

Is the most idiotic marketing from any major business I've ever heard. I know FOX has a nice deal with them but it surely can't make up for all the lost revenue from lack of interest due to not being able to see a game, other than from a game that'd you'd see locally anyway. Like preaching to the converted.

How in the world do you literally deny your consumers of your product on such a major scale? Greed. Butthole Selig couldn't resist the FOX deal and in the process screwed the fans of Baseball and didn't care 1 bit about the fans.

by escapegoat on Jun 20, 2006 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions

Oh

to live in Manila and watch games at 4AM eveyday. What I wouldn't give....:)

Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Jun 20, 2006 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions

If Baker's going to go . . .

Al, if Dusty's not going to be extended, I disagree with your premise that it's better to wait until the end of the season. Wouldn't you rather bring in someone new to get his feet wet, and establish a rapport with the players now, so they can start next season on the same page?
I think that transition (buried in the postseason race, with no pressure and little attention) would be easier than starting Spring Training with a new guy.

Perhaps Dusty should be given a month with all of his horses, to be fair, but I certainly think it's in the team's best interest to get the nerves out this season (with a new guy) and then start next season with a head start.

Unless, of course, the "new guy" currently has a job and is not available to start immediately.

"Respect the game above all else." - Ryne Sandberg

by Tom @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jun 20, 2006 11:07 AM CDT reply actions

Rebuild Now

The Cubs need an extreme makeover. But I suspect Jim Hendry will remain in full denial. Instead of aggressively shopping Pierre, Ramirez, Walker, Maddux, Wood and the bullpen pieces prior to July 31st, Hendry will likely make only minor moves, like trading a John Mabry for a new roll of athletic tape.

Regardless, it should be a VERY interesting offseason.

The Cubs are guaranteed to exercise Wood's buyout clause and wave bye, bye.
Does Maddux retire or decide to go it another year? If he does want to keep on playing, its probable he will want to play for a legitimate contender. My guess is Maddux is gone after this season.
Who rounds out the starting rotation? Zambrano, Prior (he is unmoveable at this stage, so you might as well stick it out and cross your fingers if you are the Cubs), maybe Marshall, maybe Miller. Who is the 5th starter? Do the Cubs give Guzman another chance, or do they go out and buy a pitcher or two for the rotation?
What to do in centerfield??? Pie strikes me as little more than the next Juan Encarnacion in this league. In other words, a guy who hits low in the order and chips in with a .260 BA, decent power, 70 or so RBIs, good speed and good defense. Is Pie going to be ready in 2007? He probably will be best served by another year in the minors. If that's the case, who plays center? Do the Cubs dare bring back Pierre? If not Pierre, then who?
Murton isn't the solution in left. He will never be a sufficient run producer and is a marginal left fielder. The best solution would be to platooon Jones and Murton in left. Doing that will create a void in right.
What do the Cubs do at 2nd base? Much like Barrett behind the plate, Walker is a big liability at 2nd base. Plus Walker is a clubhouse lawyer who Hendry doesn't appear fond of.
What happens to Dusty and his coaching staff? Does Dusty want to be back in 2007? I don't think Hendry will fire him, even at the end of the season. If Dusty goes, it will be Dusty's decision. My hunch is that he bolts at the end of his contract and there is someone new running the show next year. But who?

by Mike63 on Jun 20, 2006 11:18 AM CDT reply actions

Good comparison

of Encarnacion and Pie. I hope it's not true but it does look that way right now doesn't it?

I'm not sure why so many people appear to want Ramirez gone. Look, he doesn't hustle, we know that. Would you rather have a hustling Chris Stynes or Ramirez? Ramirez can hit, we aren't going to be able to find someone better. Why trade him when we need him? He'll loaf, admire his home runs and be out of the lineup occassionally, but he'll also end up putting up good to very good numbers. We can't afford to lose that.

by pageian on Jun 20, 2006 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions

No more sacred cows....

Regardless of the sentimental attachment people have to Wood and Maddux, I don't want to see them in a Cubs uniform next year. I wouldn't count on Wade Miller, either. They're probably going to look in the FA market for another arm and (stop me if you've heard this before) overpay for a washed-up veteran.

Hendry's distain for OBA almost guarantees Walker won't be here next year, although I think he could still be a cheap fix.

Biggest question to me is center field. If Pie isn't ready, I don't know what they'll do.

by salparadise23 on Jun 20, 2006 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions

I don't think

Dusty will go on his own. He has gotten a lot of bad PR and I think his chance of managing another team are slim. He might get another job as a coach like Baylor, but if he leaves it won't be because of a better offer.

When he got to the WS and then became available for the next season, Hendry was the ONLY one that wanted him and bid against himself. (Something he seems to be good at!) It seems obvious his ability has decreased as a manager. I think this will be his last go around to manage and he will have to be carried out to leave!

by Ernieboy on Jun 20, 2006 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions

Trade Proposal

If I were Jim Hendry, I'd call up the Angels and offer up Aramis Ramirez and a bullpen arm for mega-prospect Brandon Wood and super utility man Chone Figgins. Wood is a shortstop, but probably best suited to play 3rd base someday. Regardless, he projects out to be a big star. Figgins can play center or 2nd base and solves, at least temporarily, the void at leadoff hitter when the Cubs wave bye, bye to Juan Pierre.

The Angels play in a terrible division and still consider themselves a playoff caliber team. Their offense is wretched and they desperately need to find lineup protection for Vlad Guerrero.

Call this Step One to Extreme Makeover of the Cubs.

by Mike63 on Jun 20, 2006 12:20 PM CDT reply actions

Good idea

of thinking trade with the ANgels anyway, but not for Wood.
He's their top prospect and is about MLB ready. Angel fans are clamoring for Wood and love the kid already. He is untradeable I believe (well atleast not for Ramirez).

I think the more likely (natural) fit, if you're talking about trading Ramirez to the Angels is with 3rd Basemen McPherson, once their top prospect but lately has many fans and MNGMT to give up on him.

Keeping the theme into southern California, I would like to see the Cubs work out a deal with the Dodgers for Izturis. Yes he would be a 2nd Basemen, but I'm looking ahead already and the thought of him and Cedeno up the middle, well speaking of Wood.

by escapegoat on Jun 20, 2006 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions

Brandon Wood...

Is definetly the right idea. find the prospects that are going to be here for 10 years.(theoretically). Stephen Drew was another one that was kicked around but I don't see how we get him from the D-backs.

Macphereson is already proving to be overhyped. and we already have a youngster with a hole in his swing. Not saying we shouldn't try and get him. But we shouldn't give our biggest tradeable asset (that's what Aramis is....) for him

by yahoodi on Jun 20, 2006 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions

Not sure what you're expecting

to get for ARam but you're not going to get Wood for him. If so, I'd do it in a heartbeat and so would any other GM. But the fact is, you're not going to get a prospect like Wood for Ramirez.

His stock is dropping big time and the advanced scouts who noticed how much weight he lost from last year are now being a little more vocal about it, with his plummeting power numbers.

ARam also has an option after this year I believe? If the Cubs do have him on the block (as they should) he better start heating it up fast to get 1 of another teams top rated prospects. Plus ARams work ethic and attitude will always precede him.

Bottomline Cub fans, ARam isn't the trade bait you all think he is and another player the fans think entirely way too much of.

by escapegoat on Jun 20, 2006 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions

A-Ram's Option

is a player's option for eleven million. Ramirez is going to stick around, unless A-Rod goes down in a heap.

One day, the dream will come true.

by brianp88 on Jun 20, 2006 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions

Tickets Available

I know this isn't the tickets diary, but I have two tickets to next Thursdays game against the Brewers at 1:20.

Section 434 Row 5 Seats 7+8

If you are interested please email me at i.m.trejo at excite dot com.

"Harlem Furniture......You'll like our style!"

by Imtrejo on Jun 20, 2006 1:03 PM CDT reply actions

Blackout provisions

The guy gets the point wrong in his article--blackout rules aren't in place to get people to buy tickets to the game, they're to get people to watch the game on their local broadcaster instead of on the internet or Extra Innings. He seems to get this in the first article he cites, but then seems to forget it the second time. But these rules are in place to protect the holder of the broadcast rights, not to get more people into the stadium.

Major League Baseball wants people in Keokuk to watch the Twins on their local broadcaster or Regional Sports Network.

The absurdity of this, of course, is that no local broadcaster or RSN provides Twins games to Keokuk, IA. And none is likely to anytime soon.

The problem is really these multiple team areas--with Iowa and Las Vegas being the real problems. Just checking Keokuk, they get the St. Louis RSN and the Cardinal games. If the Cubs, White Sox, Royals, Twins (?) and Brewers(???) would just accept that they aren't getting their games on the air in Keokuk and make this Cardinals territory, all this would be solved.

Northern Iowa could have the Twins. The Western half of the state could have the Royals. The Southern part the Cardinals and the Eastern part goes to the Cubs and White Sox. I guess the Brewers could have Davenport. Des Moines could either take a vote (which would be won by the Cubs and White Sox) or they could just get the Royals shoved down their throats to try to pump up the small market teams and Cub fans could get Extra Innings.

Similarly with Vegas. They could either take a vote (which would go to the Dodgers and Angels) or they could just shove the Padres down their throats. But giving these small market teams broadcast rights in areas where they have no broadcasters is not helping the value of their franchise nor is it helping to build happy baseball fans.

by Josh Timmers on Jun 20, 2006 1:18 PM CDT reply actions

Your point is valid...

... as is the absurdity of thinking there is a "local" broadcaster two states away from a major market.

This COULD be solved on the Internet; tracking IP addresses would allow "local" advertising to be inserted into a web broadcast no matter where you are -- let's say you, a Cub fan, wanted to watch a Cub game on your laptop in Europe.

They could easily feed the local advertising from Chicago onto that feed. Technically, that is quite easy.

Getting that through the dunderheads at MLB.TV is much harder.

by Al Yellon on Jun 20, 2006 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions

Yeah they could

But local broadcasters are still awfully wedded to traditional revenue sources. But as you would probably argue, they need to change their ways or their ways will get changed for them.

In my earlier post, I argued giving the Brewers Davenport, which is silly because Davenport is one of the Quad Cities and is Cub territory. I, of course, meant Dubuque.

by Josh Timmers on Jun 20, 2006 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions

hockey

It is obscene that hockey and basketball seasons are just ending now. Who would want to be watching a game indoors at this time of year? Seems like their seasons end later every year. Why don't they just forgo an off-season altogether and start playing a 12-month season. There wouldn't be much difference.

by danimal15 on Jun 20, 2006 2:38 PM CDT reply actions

The Winter Olympics...

stretched the hockey season a couple of weeks. So thay have a partial excuse.

The NBA just likes to take their time with the playoffs...

by bison on Jun 20, 2006 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions

NHL Finals.

I was most definitely rooting for the Oilers because of the incredible love of hockey that Canadians have, but it is nice for Carolina fans to celebrate the win, even though their team was stolen from the great frozen North, like so many others.

I think the Cubs are sort of a combination of the Oilers and the Hurricanes. Great tradition, incredible fans and a glorious past (granted, the Oilers won all their Stanley cups a few decades ago and the Cubs won their pennants and World Series 6+ decades ago). The Hurricanes are celebrating a Championship after a long wait (as is their star Brind'Amour).

The Cubs will win it all one day, but I think that we as faithful Cub fans need to remember that it is not supposed to come immediately (even though the Marlins and Diamondbacks seem to have shown otherwise). We can start by having some winning seasons, then win the division, then have our first pennant in (as of right now) 61 years. Then the time will be right and the Cubs will win it all, and what a glorious day it will be, though I fear for the city of Chicago which so easily survived the aftermath of a long-awaited Sox championship, but may not be able to survive the ensuing pandemonium of a Cubs World Series Championship.

Watched Ken Burns Baseball videos last night, including the first decade of the 20th century and they described the Cubs' insane pennant win over the Giants and their World Series victory. It really hit home how long ago 1908 is. Wow.

GO CUBS!

As a Cubs fan, The 2006 season will be remembered by me as....the first that I could buy Old Style cans with Cubs logos on them....

by coopergillan on Jun 20, 2006 2:48 PM CDT reply actions

Ken Burns

He might as well of called it New York and Boston Baseball, because that's all he showed for 98% of it.

The first few discs I really like, but I have to listen to Billy Crystal wax nostalgic about Mickey Mantle one more time....

by salparadise23 on Jun 20, 2006 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions

How about the ongoing war

between Bob Costas and Billy Crystal over who loves Mickey more? Love that.

"Aw, how could he lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico!"--Harry Caray

by cubbiejulie on Jun 20, 2006 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions

Can't blame Carolina fans

for stealing the Whalers.

by Josh Timmers on Jun 20, 2006 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions

Nope.

Can't ever blame the fans. If they learn to love hockey, great for them, but the only reason they have a team is because of owners....

oh the owners. I was watching Around the Horn today and I thought how amazing it would be for the Cubs to have an owner like Mark Cuban. I don't agree with everything he says, but I think it is amazing how passionate he is about having a winning team. He does not back down, despite having paid millions of dollars in fines. And wearing the Stackhouse jersey during the game he was suspended from is amazing.

As a Cubs fan, The 2006 season will be remembered by me as....the first that I could buy Old Style cans with Cubs logos on them....

by coopergillan on Jun 20, 2006 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions

Yesterday's game

What happens to a pitcher who lets the Cubs score runs? According to ESPN Transactions, if you are Jason Johnson (5 IP, 6 R, 3 ER), you get designated for assignment, and if you are Jeremy Guthrie (2 IP, 4 R, 4 ER), you get sent to the minors.

by BruceR on Jun 20, 2006 4:49 PM CDT reply actions

Ha Ha Ha

We have sunk so low that whenever we knock out a starting pitcher, he's immediately released. Oh, we have sunk to depths further than even the lowly Indians recognize our plight.

Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Jun 20, 2006 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions

I just had a terrible thought

Would Hendry sign Johnson and put him in our rotation? No...not that lord....please no.

Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Jun 20, 2006 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions

What is it like to WIN

Go to your local sports bar if you can't get the Marlin's games on your TV.... You will see a young well managed (Joe Giradi) team.. with great players and a superb pitching staff....
Dontrell Willis (former Cub) Ricky Nolasco(former
Cub) Sergio Mitre (former Cub) Scott Olson Crystal Lake kid who tried out but the Cub's were not interested.... and Joe Bowrowski is saving the 18 out of the last 24 won...... and
Oh by the way the payroll is 15 million yes 15
Cubs 16 under 500 Marlins 6....... soon to overtake the Phillies for second place and then a shot at the Mets for 1st..... good management
by smart baseball people not Mc Phail types.

FlaCub

by FlaCub on Jun 21, 2006 1:32 PM CDT reply actions