Open Thread: Cubs vs. Mets, Sunday 7/16, 5:05 CT

by Al Yellon on Jul 16, 2006 12:57 PM CDT in Game Threads

El Duque.

See, this is what I hate most about the New York hype machine's influence over baseball.

Here's a guy who has a decent 75-57 lifetime record, with a 4.20 ERA, and who has had some success with good Yankee and White Sox teams. He's either 36 years old or 40 years old or who knows, maybe he was involved with the Castro-Batista flap. You know, Castro and Batista.

But he plays a couple of years in New York and he gets a nickname which leads you to believe he's some legendary superstar, which he is NOT, particularly with a five-plus ERA this season. Basically, he's Paul Byrd, a journeyman who's had a couple of days in the sun.

End rant.

Today's Starting Pitchers


S. Marshall Cubs	vs.	O. Hernandez Mets


5-7	W-L	5-8
4.80	ERA	5.12
61	SO	89
45	BB	34
9	HR	14
vs. NY	--	vs. Cubs

Marshall, of course, has yet to face the Mets, since this is his rookie year and the Cubs' first series against them this year.

Hernandez, despite playing for two teams that have faced the Cubs several times in interleague play and having been with the Diamondbacks earlier this year, has never pitched against the Cubs. He has faced a few Cubs who were in the AL at one time; Jacque Jones is 7-for-22 against him with two doubles.

The odd starting time today (watch for tons of shadows) is dictated by ESPN's desire to put the ESPY Awards (which aren't even live, they were taped last week) on the air in East Coast prime time. Besides, when I first heard about those awards, I thought they were named after this guy.

Discuss amongst yourselves.

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Comments

Jason McElwain

better not lose to Kobe.

by colossus @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 16, 2006 1:44 PM CDT reply actions

That would

be great if Jason wins.

I can't wait for Iowa football!!

by sue369 on Jul 16, 2006 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions

I suppose...

Neither of you have seen the list of winners (as it is tape delayed from wednesday). I guess I'll leave the suspense...

Before there was Carlos...there was Eddie!

by thekansasian on Jul 16, 2006 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions

hate that kid

Does autism actually prevent/impair you from playing basketball well?

seems like being short and weighing 100 pounds are much bigger obstacles

one last thing: kobe's a satanic bondsesque demon b/c he shoots so much, but k-mac is inspirational when he's running up the score in garbage time??? he took like 20 shots in 5 minutes?

flame away, but I hate that story, especially with the fake-aspect of it: the crowd already had poster-heads of him

gag

http://www.royalsreview.com

www.royalsreview.com

by Freneau on Jul 16, 2006 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions

I

think he went 7 of 12 in four minutes.

I have no clue what you mean by the "fake aspect of it." Yes, everybody who watches the footage is aware that they already had poster-heads of him. All the students knew he was going to dress for the game and they went in hopes of helping get him and cheer him on.

And good news, he won Best Sports Moment.

by colossus @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 16, 2006 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions

Hmm...

I think that's a little much, but i agree that the story is a tad overplayed.

by thekansasian on Jul 16, 2006 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions

Do you

really "hate" him? I feel sorry for you if you do.

I can't wait for Iowa football!!

by sue369 on Jul 16, 2006 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions

...wow....

your autism comment is so far from the scale of being truthful that i am not even going to attempt to right the wrongs. and no, being 100 pounds overweight is not comparable to a disease that is lifelong, has no cure, and is probably the least-known disease outside of AIDS.

by dtpollitt on Jul 16, 2006 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions

does

it impair your ability to play basketball?

www.royalsreview.com

by Freneau on Jul 16, 2006 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions

google it

and educate yourself.

I can't wait for Iowa football!!

by sue369 on Jul 16, 2006 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions

this

is a good time to recipe, not when someone says "I don't think Matt Murton is very good."

by mike bornemann @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 16, 2006 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions

Save Runs

Too bad we can't use some of yesterday's runs for today.

by dtpollitt on Jul 16, 2006 2:42 PM CDT reply actions

Cecil Espy

was one of my favorite players as a kid... something about a totally limited player with a funny name that a 10 year old just latches onto...

www.royalsreview.com

by Freneau on Jul 16, 2006 3:49 PM CDT reply actions

Lineups

pierre
walker
barrett
ramirez
jones
mabry
murton
cedeno
marshall

any reason why dlee is out or is he just resting today?

"As tempting as it is to bury these guys right now... I just can't do it."

by cubbieblue on Jul 16, 2006 4:25 PM CDT reply actions

I wonder

if Lee is having some problems with his recovery. He had the 4 day All Star break and now he's sitting after only 2 games played. That isn't normal for Lee.

Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Jul 16, 2006 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions

great....

looks like a losing lineup to me...

by dtpollitt on Jul 16, 2006 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions

I concur

We're doomed.

I'd rather have Walker at 1B and Theriot at 2B.

by colossus @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 16, 2006 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions

Well...

Mabry has been rotting on the bench for awhile, maybe a spot start here isn't such a bad thing.

by thekansasian on Jul 16, 2006 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions

No...

it is

by CosmicCharlie911 on Jul 16, 2006 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions

That thing that ESPN ran at the start of the game

was terrible.

"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!" -Homer J. Simpson

by Whitebacon on Jul 16, 2006 5:03 PM CDT reply actions

ESPN Viewers...

Did anybody else hate that intro with 4 staged Cubs fans talking about all the close calls over the years.

BLAH! And then Jon opens up by saying the Cubs haven't won since 1908. Beat it into the ground ESPN, beat it.

by thekansasian on Jul 16, 2006 5:04 PM CDT reply actions

Hello Hendry

we've become a laughing stock, shouldn't you be doing something?

"I respect the mind's power over the body, it's why I do what I do" - Dr. Jonathan Crane

by Faith plus 1 on Jul 16, 2006 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions

That sucked!!

I can't wait for Iowa football!!

by sue369 on Jul 16, 2006 5:05 PM CDT reply actions

That was awful...

and God do I hate ESPN. They get a hard on every time they have any window at all to mention steve bartman....just give it a rest already!! I don't give a shit about Bartman, ESPN. If you really want to talk about who blew that game, why don't you mention Alex Gonzalez once in a while.

In Conclusion, ESPN is terrible, but FOX sports makes them look good in comparison. I'm sad that I have to deal with this broadcast team for this game, and I wonder why steve stone hasn't informed ESPN that he is a better broadcaster than Joe Morgan.

by CosmicCharlie911 on Jul 16, 2006 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions

Al, your anti El Duque rant is severely misguided

as you completely ignore his postseason effectiveness. He's been one of the best in recent years with a 9-3 record and a 2.55 ERA.

All will be fixed in 2006

by DSZ on Jul 16, 2006 5:07 PM CDT reply actions

I don't know about SEVERELY misguided....

As he isn't going to be much use down the stretch.

by CosmicCharlie911 on Jul 16, 2006 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions

whats

really misguided is this notion that since he is such a "big game" pitcher he has some value

for gods sake during the other 6 months of the season he is the same shitty 4 + ERA pitcher he has been for the last 3 years

its the same kind of bullshit we are fed about clutch hitting and improving hitting with RISP it all sounds nice but its not a reality

"a sort of soft tyranny of positivity" -GM

by ksucubbie on Jul 16, 2006 5:23 PM CDT reply actions

Yeah...

because walk-off's and 2 out rbi's are just "statistical coincidences."

by thekansasian on Jul 16, 2006 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions

they

are exaclty that

"a sort of soft tyranny of positivity" -GM

by ksucubbie on Jul 16, 2006 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions

Think what you want...

But I'll take Big Papi in extra innings.
Baseball is just like any other sport; some people raise their game when the game is on the line, and others fold under pressure.

by thekansasian on Jul 16, 2006 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions

ill

take Ortiz as well because he is a GREAT hitter not because he has some magic pixie dust that makes him great with the game on the line

give a 40 HR high OPS hitter AB's and he is going to hit- because THATS how he hits ALL YEAR long

because he is good not because he is good with the game on the line

"a sort of soft tyranny of positivity" -GM

by ksucubbie on Jul 16, 2006 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions

Oh...

Well then Ryan Howard, Thome, Hafner, and Dunn should all have as many walk-off HR's. Oh, wait, they don't. But Ortiz has a higher OPS. So players like Giambi, Manny, and Berkman will have as many walk-off RBI's. Oh, wait, they don't.

by thekansasian on Jul 16, 2006 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions

I agree...

I don't understand the logic that there is no such thing as clutch hitting. Pressure totally changes situations mentally for all people (including baseball players) and if there are people that get flustered and buckle under pressure (which there definitely are: don't you remember talking to the police as a teenager) then there are obviously examples of the other end of the spectrum. For some people, pressure causes more adrenaline to flow, and they bear down in concentration. Thats just science, man.

by CosmicCharlie911 on Jul 16, 2006 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions

Exactly...

right.

by thekansasian on Jul 16, 2006 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions

no

its the exact opposite of science because you have NO study to prove it in a large sample, you have your opinion and nothing else

science would prove that this magic clutch ability exists not random examples embedded in a few memories of sports center highlights

"a sort of soft tyranny of positivity" -GM

by ksucubbie on Jul 16, 2006 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions

no

I'm right

by CosmicCharlie911 on Jul 16, 2006 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions

for the sake of humanity

don't ever speak like you know science again.

by mike bornemann @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 16, 2006 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions

Ok smartass...

I wasn't aware that making a point on this site demands a pedantic, well researched post with documentation and study, and I don't claim to have a degree in psych, but it just so happens that I do understand a thing or two about neurotransmitters, the nervous systems, and the brain.

Since I mentioned adrenaline (epinephrine) before, I'll back that up with a little bit of fact: adrenal response is activated by the autonomic nervous system (more specifically the sympathetic nervous system) this is the system that activates "fight or flight" and other stress responses: for example, this is the system that would activate in my body if you came home from flipping burgers at work and found me in bed with the missus and you chased me out the window as I flailed wildly for my pants. Anyway, the stress response causes a release of acetylcholine which triggers the release of adrenaline from the adrenal gland.

Now, listen closely son, because this is where this response pertains to baseball. The SNS response is variable from person to person, just like pretty much any biological response. This could be a result of anything from variable levels of action potential across axons, to the variable acetylcholine release across the synaptic clefts, to variations in epinephrine levels, to the body's response, to anything in between. But regardless, all bodies react differently, and as a former swimmer I can tell you from personal experience that people with similar or identical skill in practice might vary their respective times more pronouncedly in actual races due to this SNS response. Any athlete can tell you, this response manifests itself at higher levels during stressful moments like right before a race (or in the case of baseball, during an AB). Adrenaline flow has very logical implications for baseball players, because aside from the more well known results of adrenaline release (increased heart rate and widening of the bronchial passages) it also causes pupil dialation and allows sharper vision (hmm, how could that possibly be important in baseball) and this can all lead to quicker reaction time and increased concentration.

Now I know someone else up above mentioned that there are no studies regarding baseball, and therefore this isn't "science" but you really don't have to look too far for copious data about adrenal response for you slaves to empiricism, and I'm sure if you're not a Sox fan you can extrapolate some of that data to make inferences about what that means in regard to clutch hitting, and baseball on the whole. I can tell you honestly that back in my swimming days, I, along with most of my teammates, posted our fastest times in the biggest meets when it counted the most.

Since you're such a smart guy, Mike, I fully expect any response to this written at least in iambic pentameter, if not trochaic octameter.

Oh and yes, I'm sure if a Ph d in psych read this post they would find two or three instances of me making an ass of myself (and in fact my sister is, so I'll have to call her up), but you had to go malign my quick response (since I figured it made enough sense at least as an argument) but I can see that you need someone to hold your hand around this blog, so I'm glad I could be here to be the psuedo-erudite, pedantic, pompous ass I know we all like to be. If you have big words of your own, to explain why clutch hitting doesn't exist, I'd love to read them.

by CosmicCharlie911 on Jul 17, 2006 5:48 AM CDT up reply actions

clutch hitting

some good articles on the subject.

Tango Tiger

So, who are the clutch hitters? From 1999-2002, Jason Giambi and Miguel Tejada have shown to have the true talent clutch ability to add 2 runs per year. That's it. That's the effect of clutch ability.

Clutch hitting is there. It's an ability that does exist, and is detectable. And its effect is rather limited.

Wikipedia

It should be noted that various baseball analysts, including Bill James, Pete Palmer, Dick Cramer, and the Baseball Prospectus editors, have found so-called "clutch hitting" ability to be a myth. This is not to say that clutch hits, like those listed above, do not exist, but rather that any innate ability to perform well in high-pressure situations is an illusion.

Diamond Mind Basesball - Rob Neyer

There's literally hundreds of articles on the subject, it's an interesting debate, regardless of on which side you are.

"You hit your way on, you don't walk your way on" - Jim Hendry

by VS on Jul 17, 2006 6:48 AM CDT up reply actions

Although wikipedia is about as....

reliable a source as me...yeah its an interesting debate. Common sense would tell you that there is such a thing as performing in the clutch (even when thinking independantly from personal experience) but I guess real data (at least for baseball) doesn't give a definite correlation.

by CosmicCharlie911 on Jul 17, 2006 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions

your ignoring

the fact that david ortiz is a great hitter

in any situation he is good because he is a quality player

so why is it such a suprise to you that he has sucsess with "clutch hitting" when he does well in hitting all together?

dont give me examples of elite players who hit well in intese situations they are elite because they hit well period and wheter its in the 5th or 9th inning is not of consequence

"a sort of soft tyranny of positivity" -GM

by ksucubbie on Jul 16, 2006 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions

I just stated

Other top tier players who don't have the same track record for success in late-game situations.

by thekansasian on Jul 16, 2006 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions

Well, let's just take a look at the numbers

Ortiz

It goes AVG/OBP/SLG/OPS

Bases empty
.273 .355 .564 .920

Runners on
.290 .382 .518 .900

RISP
.291 .388 .496 .884

RISP/2 outs
.275 .394 .519 .913

Howard

Bases empty
.304 .355 .595 .950

Runners on
.264 .343 .565 .908

RISP
.237 .329 .485 .814

RISP.2 outs
.183 .309 .366 .675

Hafner

Bases Empty
.293 .388 .562 .950

Runners on
.304 .415 .589 1.004

RISP
.302 .420 .592 1.012

RISP/ 2 outs
.246 .395 .523 .918

Bases loaded
444 .488 1.222 1.711 (Holy hell!)

Thome

Bases empty
.283 .403 .582 .984

Runners on
.282 .415 .550 .965

RISP
.279 .433 .541 .973

RISP/ 2 outs
.251 .431 .492 .923

Dunn

Bases empty
.252 .353 .537 .890

Runners on
244 .416 .507 .923

RISP
.219 .421 .483 .904

RISP/ 2 outs
.206 .431 .416 .847

Ortiz actually gets worse as the situation gets tougher. The way I see it, being clutch means stepping up in pressure situations right? Well, according to the numbers, here's how these players rank when it comes to "clutch".

1 - Hafner
2 - Dunn
3 - Thome
4 - Ortiz
5 - Howard (who only has 680 ABs total)

Ortiz gets so much credit for being clutch because:

1- Being on a great offensive team like the Sox (and hitting behind Manny), he's going to get a lot more chances to hit with RISP than most players.

2- He plays in Boston, so of course he's going to get a ton more media attention than all the other guys you mentioned.

"You hit your way on, you don't walk your way on" - Jim Hendry

by VS on Jul 17, 2006 6:59 AM CDT up reply actions

Correct me if I am wrong...

... but didnt even Bill James recently (w/in last year/year-and-a-half) come out and write an article that basically said, paraphrasing (clearly) "Hey, new studies/evidence/interpretations leave some doubt whether I was correct years (decades?) ago when I stated that there was no such thing as clutch hitting... it now looks to be inconclusive".

I may be wrong... I'll take a look for a link to it.

NLBallClub

by NLBallClub on Jul 16, 2006 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions

Here it is.

http://www.sabr.org/cmsfiles/underestimating.pdf

NLBallClub

by NLBallClub on Jul 16, 2006 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions

Essentially he said

we can't rule it out.

He used a very flawed literary simile to make the point.

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

by scareduck on Jul 16, 2006 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions

Jon Miller ( i think that's his name)

on Mariano Rivera: "There's saves, and there's saves. And he saved that game."

by thekansasian on Jul 16, 2006 5:34 PM CDT reply actions

Jon Miller....

On any hit (no matter how mundane):

OHHH. THERE'S A SHOT!!!

by CosmicCharlie911 on Jul 16, 2006 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions

Nice

quick inning for Sean.

President of the Dusty Bashers Club aka Cub Fans for a Better Future

by kessinger on Jul 16, 2006 5:49 PM CDT reply actions

That was as clear a synopsis of El Duque

as I've ever heard. Thanks, Al.

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

by scareduck on Jul 16, 2006 5:50 PM CDT reply actions

HAHHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH

by CosmicCharlie911 on Jul 16, 2006 5:51 PM CDT reply actions

And

he comes up with the homer. Nice shot Sean!

President of the Dusty Bashers Club aka Cub Fans for a Better Future

by kessinger on Jul 16, 2006 5:52 PM CDT reply actions

Woohoo!!

way to go Sean!!

I can't wait for Iowa football!!

by sue369 on Jul 16, 2006 5:52 PM CDT reply actions

HEEEEEEE!!

That was fun.

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

by scareduck on Jul 16, 2006 5:53 PM CDT reply actions

I missed

the first inning. Did they mention why D Lee is out of the line up?

President of the Dusty Bashers Club aka Cub Fans for a Better Future

by kessinger on Jul 16, 2006 5:57 PM CDT reply actions

Mentioned...

D-Lee diving down the first base line yesterday as possibly irritating his wrist.

by thekansasian on Jul 16, 2006 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions

'El Duke' pitching to Castro

Was there any bet on when they were going to make a Castro joke?

by BlueDWarrior on Jul 16, 2006 5:58 PM CDT reply actions

duque

by CosmicCharlie911 on Jul 16, 2006 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions

Pod Cubs tonight?

President of the Dusty Bashers Club aka Cub Fans for a Better Future

by kessinger on Jul 16, 2006 6:01 PM CDT reply actions

Man, that postseason record

sure helped the Duck tonight.

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

by scareduck on Jul 16, 2006 6:05 PM CDT reply actions

Roger Dorn

I'm still waiting for Dusty Baker to have a "Roger Dorn" moment tonight, hopefully it will be irrelevant when he does.

by BlueDWarrior on Jul 16, 2006 6:09 PM CDT reply actions

It's bad enough

that ESPN has to move the postseason around to fit the football schedule, but to move a regular season game for a meaningless awards ceremony? Eww.

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

by scareduck on Jul 16, 2006 6:10 PM CDT reply actions

That

pitch dropped in beautifully for the K.

President of the Dusty Bashers Club aka Cub Fans for a Better Future

by kessinger on Jul 16, 2006 6:14 PM CDT reply actions

Could

these idiots mention any more how it's very early in the game and imply that the Mets are going to clobber Sean?

President of the Dusty Bashers Club aka Cub Fans for a Better Future

by kessinger on Jul 16, 2006 6:16 PM CDT reply actions

Um.

Well . . .

by dfrancon on Jul 16, 2006 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions

Commercial Question

Who is that guy in that Hanes commercial with Michael Jordan, the one that keeps getting all of his 'shots' blocked...

by BlueDWarrior on Jul 16, 2006 6:18 PM CDT reply actions

Kevin Bacon

President of the Dusty Bashers Club aka Cub Fans for a Better Future

by kessinger on Jul 16, 2006 6:18 PM CDT reply actions

Sean

is two for two. He should teach Prior how to swing a bat.

President of the Dusty Bashers Club aka Cub Fans for a Better Future

by kessinger on Jul 16, 2006 6:20 PM CDT reply actions

Actually...

Prior has a pretty decent swing and was effective hitting in college.

But the real question is, hitting means putting Mark on the basepaths. That's just asking for another injury.

by thekansasian on Jul 16, 2006 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions

Stu Scott promo...

"While you've been watching the game, we've been watching the celebrities hit the red carpet...The ESPY's, directly following the game."

Are they really pretending that the show wasn't recorded last week.

by thekansasian on Jul 16, 2006 6:20 PM CDT reply actions

RE: Pod Cubs

I think they were placed with the team I played with on MLB 2005 (PC Version.), the default Cubs roster at that

(I won 7-2, Prior went 7 I, I beat Martinez)

by BlueDWarrior on Jul 16, 2006 6:21 PM CDT reply actions

I'd rather see the "ESPY" awards named

after this guy.

http://www.hakes.com/item.asp?Auction=187&ItemNo=38574

by Smooth Jazz Man San Diego on Jul 16, 2006 6:22 PM CDT reply actions

Cliff Floyd...

Boy, I DO NOT want to see him in our OF next year...

by Fort WayneCubbie on Jul 16, 2006 6:22 PM CDT reply actions

Pierre 3-3

2 stolen bases 2 runs.

Looks like he's back on track after the ASB.

Still think we're keeping this guy.

by winstonwolfe on Jul 16, 2006 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions

I hope we do...

This is what we're paying for. A leadoff hitter who gets on base, has some speed and can play a close to plus CF. Why not keep him? Who else do we have in our organization? Pie? He's not ready. That means we have to rely on Hendry to fill CF and the leadoff slots again next year.

Of course, we have to rely on Hendry to sign him to a decent contract...

by Fort WayneCubbie on Jul 16, 2006 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions

Completely agree on Floyd...

But wouldn't that be just like the Cubs to get him?

Chances are we'd lose out on Carlos Lee and sign Floyd instead.

by winstonwolfe on Jul 16, 2006 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions

Yep

That's been "Big Jim's" history.

by Fort WayneCubbie on Jul 16, 2006 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions

Big Jim Slade?

by CosmicCharlie911 on Jul 16, 2006 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions

Kess, ESPN's gotta keep

the NYC audience from going over to "Deadwood" on HBO. Oh, wait -- that's what the Mets bats are made of.

by Smooth Jazz Man San Diego on Jul 16, 2006 6:24 PM CDT reply actions

Outside

of that home run Sean has been dealing tonight.

President of the Dusty Bashers Club aka Cub Fans for a Better Future

by kessinger on Jul 16, 2006 6:32 PM CDT reply actions

Someone shut this...

fake cubfan bitch up

by CosmicCharlie911 on Jul 16, 2006 6:39 PM CDT reply actions

omg

im going to punch that chick right in the babymaker if she doesnt shut the f*** up

by dtpollitt on Jul 16, 2006 6:40 PM CDT reply actions

cliff floyd comment...

"it never came down until it was in the bleachers?" isnt that the definition of a home run?? thanks jonny...

by dtpollitt on Jul 16, 2006 6:41 PM CDT reply actions

ESPN has their speaker right by....

some incredibly annoying woman with a shrill voice.

by CosmicCharlie911 on Jul 16, 2006 6:46 PM CDT reply actions

annoying woman

earlier she screamed something to the effect of "i want to have sex with __!!"

by dtpollitt on Jul 16, 2006 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions

I hope

that all of those RISP in the early innings don't come back and bite the Cubs.

President of the Dusty Bashers Club aka Cub Fans for a Better Future

by kessinger on Jul 16, 2006 6:51 PM CDT reply actions

Nice

job Todd.

President of the Dusty Bashers Club aka Cub Fans for a Better Future

by kessinger on Jul 16, 2006 7:07 PM CDT reply actions

Excuse me, I need to go clean my ears out,

I thought I just heard Joe Morgan make a good point about Hendry should have "prepared to go to war" without Wood and Prior by bringing in two more big pitchers.

Or, were they interviewing Al from LF?!

by Fort WayneCubbie on Jul 16, 2006 7:07 PM CDT reply actions

jsut proves

any idiot should have known that.

by mike bornemann @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 16, 2006 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions

Hopefully all those Todd Walker

supporters just saw that. His defense is TERRIBLE!!!

by cubsbak on Jul 16, 2006 7:08 PM CDT reply actions

yep

he's a regular ronny cedeno out there.

by mike bornemann @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 16, 2006 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions

For as bad as Cedeno is at short

he's much better defensively than Walker is.

by cubsbak on Jul 16, 2006 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions

well

that's like being the monkey who can throw his shit the farthest. some day I dream I won't have to worry about every ground ball, especially since its the slowest infield in the game. But hey, look at those packed stands.

by mike bornemann @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 16, 2006 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions

Marshall deserves better than this

Why is Walker even out there late in a game with a 3-run lead. He's a butcher.

by cubsbak on Jul 16, 2006 7:11 PM CDT reply actions

poor sean

being raped by our veterans walker looks like he checked out a long time ago

"a sort of soft tyranny of positivity" -GM

by ksucubbie on Jul 16, 2006 7:12 PM CDT reply actions

he definately booted it

but he didn't make marshal give up a grand slam.

by mike bornemann @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 16, 2006 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions

and F***G

novoa is up in our pen

"a sort of soft tyranny of positivity" -GM

by ksucubbie on Jul 16, 2006 7:13 PM CDT reply actions

Son of a

you know the rest.

President of the Dusty Bashers Club aka Cub Fans for a Better Future

by kessinger on Jul 16, 2006 7:14 PM CDT reply actions

wow

not very happy i called that.

by mike bornemann @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 16, 2006 7:14 PM CDT reply actions

OK,

I promise to shut up...

by Fort WayneCubbie on Jul 16, 2006 7:14 PM CDT reply actions

the worst

part is that people who dont really follow the season will look at marshall line and not really understand that he pitched way better than this

"a sort of soft tyranny of positivity" -GM

by ksucubbie on Jul 16, 2006 7:15 PM CDT reply actions

Moragn ......

...is going to gloat from hereon in. Does he leave Wrigley with a protective escort?

by BeerCub on Jul 16, 2006 7:16 PM CDT reply actions

Moragn...Morgan...

....meh

by BeerCub on Jul 16, 2006 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions

I think

you meant Joe Moron.

President of the Dusty Bashers Club aka Cub Fans for a Better Future

by kessinger on Jul 16, 2006 7:17 PM CDT reply actions

that I Did

by BeerCub on Jul 16, 2006 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions

Has

Todd Walker always used a brick for a glove?

President of the Dusty Bashers Club aka Cub Fans for a Better Future

by kessinger on Jul 16, 2006 7:19 PM CDT reply actions

Before This Game....

...he used a goalie's stick.

by BeerCub on Jul 16, 2006 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions

This diary...

...would only get posted by a guy who has never seen his team play in a World Series.

El Duque pitched in a World Series in each of his first 4 seasons, in 5 of his 7 total seasons and has been in post season play all but one year in his career.

His performance in post season has been stellar, being an integral part of his team's success. He is 12-3, with a 2.55 ERA, has struck out 107 in 106 innings and has won many key post season games.

He has four World Series Championship rings.

THAT is why he is legendary. It is with good reason and there are many baseball players in history who achieved legendary status partly or primarily based on their performance in the playoffs and/or World Series.

That is what people remember and it is what it is. Also, it didn't hurt that he did it mostly in New York.

by jazzman56 on Jul 16, 2006 7:20 PM CDT reply actions

And he will never be a Hall of Famer

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

by scareduck on Jul 16, 2006 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions

Another typical...

...beside the point BCB posting.

However, with his 129-47 record in International play, I think it is highly likely Hernandez will be elected to the Cuba Baseball Hall Of Fame, which is a lot harder to get into than the MLB Hall Of Fame.

This, despite his defection to the US in his late 20s (or later, as Al seems to think).

by jazzman56 on Jul 16, 2006 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions

wow

he is such a fucking legend that he gets traded for virtually nothing travels to a bunch on different teams after he was handed his rings on the yankees and helped win on last year

you want to ignore 6 months of medicore pitching because he has some good games in the post season fine

but a legend

THATS something posted by someone who doesnt know anything at all

"a sort of soft tyranny of positivity" -GM

by ksucubbie on Jul 16, 2006 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions

Glad to see...

...nothing has changed here. I should've known.

by jazzman56 on Jul 16, 2006 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions

have another

Al talked about the nickname, that's where it came from.

by mike bornemann @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 16, 2006 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions

Another error

by Walker. He's garbage. I wonder if he'll blame Brenly and Cedeno for his terrible defense again.

by cubsbak on Jul 16, 2006 7:21 PM CDT reply actions

that a way todd

he's making the cub's pr machine's job much easier.

by mike bornemann @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 16, 2006 7:21 PM CDT reply actions

This

inning is just brutal. So it fits in nicely with the season.

President of the Dusty Bashers Club aka Cub Fans for a Better Future

by kessinger on Jul 16, 2006 7:22 PM CDT reply actions

This

inning should have been over about 2 hours ago.

President of the Dusty Bashers Club aka Cub Fans for a Better Future

by kessinger on Jul 16, 2006 7:27 PM CDT reply actions

beltran

man that guy sucks

by mike bornemann @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 16, 2006 7:29 PM CDT reply actions

F%#*K

I am turning off the TV.

by BeerCub on Jul 16, 2006 7:29 PM CDT reply actions

Two

grand slams in one inning. Perfect.

President of the Dusty Bashers Club aka Cub Fans for a Better Future

by kessinger on Jul 16, 2006 7:29 PM CDT reply actions

just when you think

this team can't be more embarassing.

by mike bornemann @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 16, 2006 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions

There Are No Words

by 08Cubs on Jul 16, 2006 7:29 PM CDT reply actions

Now, I'M going

top watch "Deadwood."

by Smooth Jazz Man San Diego on Jul 16, 2006 7:29 PM CDT reply actions

Yes there are

shitty is one.

President of the Dusty Bashers Club aka Cub Fans for a Better Future

by kessinger on Jul 16, 2006 7:29 PM CDT reply actions

Good thing

Dusty went with his veterans (Walker) to win games. A double! This flippin' inning won't end.

President of the Dusty Bashers Club aka Cub Fans for a Better Future

by kessinger on Jul 16, 2006 7:31 PM CDT reply actions

this is the point

where I'd hope the crowd starts to leave. Leave! the Cubs are done! they won't come back. they'll score 1 in the 9th and lose 15-6.

/game off

I was saying Boo-urns.

by jrm78 on Jul 16, 2006 7:32 PM CDT reply actions

what a bunch

of crap. It started off so well too.

I can't wait for Iowa football!!

by sue369 on Jul 16, 2006 7:35 PM CDT reply actions

11 runs

in one inning. This inning may last until tomorrow. Good night everyone.

President of the Dusty Bashers Club aka Cub Fans for a Better Future

by kessinger on Jul 16, 2006 7:35 PM CDT reply actions

i think

novoa still had something left. why does dusty bring the hook so fast?

by tomas21 on Jul 16, 2006 7:38 PM CDT reply actions

I think Novoa read that...

line in the Tribune today that showed off his sparkling sub 3 ERA in night games? Gotta get that corrected...

The Cubs should have let fans pay $100 to get an AB in that inning, just to keep the party going and create a buzz in the stands.

by DudeVf1 on Jul 17, 2006 12:28 AM CDT up reply actions

3 slams?

Could the mets hit 3 slams in this inning? please?

I was saying Boo-urns.

by jrm78 on Jul 16, 2006 7:40 PM CDT reply actions

Where is Theriot?

Does he play in the middle infield at all?

by BlueDWarrior on Jul 16, 2006 7:40 PM CDT reply actions

Novoa.......

never had anything to begin with.

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jul 16, 2006 7:41 PM CDT reply actions

I have this fear

that we will not make any trades and we will still be playing the same players the rest of the season.

I can't wait for Iowa football!!

by sue369 on Jul 16, 2006 7:45 PM CDT reply actions

haha

somehow i find this funny...almost as funny as not winning in 100 years...

by dtpollitt on Jul 16, 2006 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions

I agree...

This counts as a "quality loss" or at least an "Ive never seen anything like that before" loss in Dusty's book, so it's all good...In fact, when you look at all the games where we should have scored more runs than the other team, we're at least 10 games up in Dusty's standings...I just want to yell point blank in to Hendry's ears while he is sleeping: "The frickin' plane has crashed into the mother frickin' mountain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

by DudeVf1 on Jul 17, 2006 12:32 AM CDT up reply actions

Nigel Tufnel: These go to eleven.

Boy, was that painful...

by bison on Jul 16, 2006 7:46 PM CDT reply actions

Have you had enough???????????????????

We are the laughingstock of the entire nation. THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. PEOPLE NEED TO PAY WITH THEIR JOBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It ain't gonna get any better people. Stop with the Pollyanna stuff and JOIN THE BOYCOTT:
http://www.petitiononline.com/SellCubs/petition.html

by wyatttripps on Jul 16, 2006 7:54 PM CDT reply actions

Idiocy...

Give Steve Stone full control of everything...despite no previous experience.

by thekansasian on Jul 16, 2006 8:30 PM CDT up reply actions

words

I can't say a damn thing.

"I respect the mind's power over the body, it's why I do what I do" - Dr. Jonathan Crane

by Faith plus 1 on Jul 16, 2006 8:11 PM CDT reply actions

Nevin

...just hit one just over Al's head!

by Fort WayneCubbie on Jul 16, 2006 8:12 PM CDT reply actions

what??

how do you know that?? i dont think i even know what AL looks like, ive only been on BCB since december or so...

by dtpollitt on Jul 16, 2006 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions

I know what Al looks like..

...but I thought they sat in the right field bleachers.

by jazzman56 on Jul 16, 2006 8:23 PM CDT reply actions

they moved to LF this season bc

RF sucks.

by colossus @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 16, 2006 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions

i feel

like a stalker asking what AL looks like...

by dtpollitt on Jul 16, 2006 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions

old

Wears a cap, probably just over six feet tall. He's posted a pic of him in the bleachers before the season started, I don't feel like digging it up though.

by colossus @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 16, 2006 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions

I Love That

"Old". Hah. He's 50ish. That ain't old. It's older than you, but it ain't old.

by BeerCub on Jul 16, 2006 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions

I thought...

...the same thing. I don't think Al is even that old. I am 49 and IIRC, he is younger than I am.

by jazzman56 on Jul 17, 2006 1:38 AM CDT up reply actions

Well...

... I have posted my age here before, and I am the same age as the jazzman.

I'm not sure how close the camera showed us in the LF corner on Nevin's HR, but yes, it flew pretty much right over our heads, so you did see all of us out there.

(I'm 5-10, in case anyone cares.)

by Al Yellon on Jul 17, 2006 4:41 AM CDT up reply actions

here

I went back to find the pic of him in the bleachers with his friends, but found this instead.

by colossus @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 16, 2006 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions

What I hate about the ESPN commentary...

When we were scoring in the first and second innings, all Joe and Jon could say was "Poor El Duque, he doesn't have his best stuff." Because if the Cubs were hitting him, it must be a bad night for him, eh? But when the Mets started scoring, we didn't hear any "Poor Sean, he just doesn't have his best stuff." We heard the jubilation which could only come from the sound of the New York fans flipping over from "Deadwood" back to the game.

by southernilcubfan on Jul 16, 2006 8:32 PM CDT reply actions

Could

of would of should of. Could have gotten out of the six if Todd Walker knew how to field his position. Twice. Would have won the game if he did. Should of taken the series if he did.

Start playing Theriot and see what he can do.

I turned the game off in the six as my stomach couldn't take it anymore. I'll bet those ESPN clowns were clucking away for the rest of the game.

President of the Dusty Bashers Club aka Cub Fans for a Better Future

by kessinger on Jul 16, 2006 8:48 PM CDT reply actions

I think any Walker supporters

can shut up now about how Todd gets maligned for his underrated defense! He single handedly lost us the game tonight!

That second error was a belt-high catch which any Little Leaguer makes. Sean Marshall was making some awesome pitches until Beltran cranked one, but Cubbie bad luck won the day (again)!

GoCubsWin

by GoCubsWin on Jul 16, 2006 9:00 PM CDT reply actions

re

can shut up now about how Todd gets maligned for his underrated defense! He single handedly lost us the game tonight!

That second error was a belt-high catch which any Little Leaguer makes. Sean Marshall was making some awesome pitches until Beltran cranked one, but Cubbie bad luck won the day (again)!

Brilliant. As expected, the Walker bashers come out in full force after this game. No one is saying his defense is underrated. It's bad, everyone knows that. But it's not as bas as people think.

Also, please stop with this BS "Cubbie bad luck" thing. There was no bad luck involved in this game. Just bad defensive plays and bad pitches by Marshall and Novoa.

"You hit your way on, you don't walk your way on" - Jim Hendry

by VS on Jul 16, 2006 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions

no kidding

i was especially pissed when he gave up those 2 grand slams.

by mike bornemann @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 16, 2006 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions

C'mon

Walker was brutal tonight. I'm not anti-Walker but two errors in one inning on two relatively easy plays is inexcusable. Yes, Marshall and Novoa gave up the home runs, but would the inning gotten that far if he made the plays? Big difference between 2 outs and no one on and 1 out 1 on. Even if makes the play and gets the second out and those next guys get on and Marshall gives up a three run homer it's a 5-5 game. If he makes the catch from Rameriz inning over 5-5. Not great, but not the nightmare it turn into.

President of the Dusty Bashers Club aka Cub Fans for a Better Future

by kessinger on Jul 16, 2006 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions

no excuses either way

field the fckng balls, make your fckng pitch.

by mike bornemann @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 16, 2006 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions

Agreed

President of the Dusty Bashers Club aka Cub Fans for a Better Future

by kessinger on Jul 16, 2006 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions

President of Todd Walker Fan Club!

And proud of it! What the heck am I supposed to do, just sit here and watch my boy Todd get destroyed every day by the nickel and dime people that show up and be quiet about it?

The Lee Tirade is just awesome, lol....every time I feel down as a Cubs fan it picks me back up...

Walker is a poor defender, he made 2 errors but he didn't give up the homers. At least he did something totally un-Cub like and said that he cost us the game. That would mean absolutely nothing except for the norm under Dusty is to blame everyone else, including the home fans...Under Dusty, Walker is entitled to blame the loss on the racist fans.

by DudeVf1 on Jul 17, 2006 12:40 AM CDT up reply actions

Fire the Trib

That is all.

What does not kill you makes you stronger.

by Pa on Jul 16, 2006 9:04 PM CDT reply actions

the only good thing about ESPN

tonight, was the comment by Joe Morgan regarding the failure of Hendry to build a pitching staff with the intention that anything from Prior and Wood would simply be icing on the cake, so to speak. He finally hit the nail on the head with that statement!

GoCubsWin

by GoCubsWin on Jul 16, 2006 9:04 PM CDT reply actions

various comments

I don't mean to be a jerk, but I just wanted to bring up a few comments that were made and ask people to think about what they say before they say it. The more insensitive ones were almost Ozzie Guillen territory.

Walker may have completely butchered a couple of plays and stunk up the joint, but saying he single-handedly blew the game is overkill. Or did he actually get to pitch tonight?

When someone asked "why does dusty bring the hook so fast?", please tell me they were kidding. Had he even considered giving Prior and Wood the hook at a reasonable time, we might have went to the Series in '03. And there's only been about eight thousand similar instances since then.

I wouldn't say AIDS is an unknown disease, but the whole "autism doesn't keep you from playing basketball" thing was out there.

Also, saying Marshall gets raped by our veterans...tacky doesn't even begin to cut that. If that happened to you or someone you know, I doubt you'd toss out that word so lightly.

"If it takes forever."

by JDay on Jul 16, 2006 10:58 PM CDT reply actions

I think that

your points are valid and they illustrate why errors, in general, are not a good measure for what happened in total. Walker is a bad defender who has a good bat, he made costly errors, but the pitching had faults as well, it's a team loss.

I think one of these crazy losses fans are going to storm the field and just start going ape-shit. I am not advocating this at all, just concerned with all of the debris being thrown on the field and the growing angst among Cubs fans over this frickin' train wreck we have under this regime.

by DudeVf1 on Jul 17, 2006 12:46 AM CDT up reply actions

whoops

when i said "unknown disease" relating to AIDS and the autism spectrum disorder (ASD) i meant "least understood"...im getting my masters in special education and work mainly with ASD kids. sorry.

by dtpollitt on Jul 17, 2006 12:54 AM CDT up reply actions

Pitches.

Let me be the first to say that Marshall and Novoa did NOT make bad pitches for the Grand Slams. They were both good hitting and were very much helped by the wind.

Who is that in the picture from spring training?

As a Cubs fan, The 2006 season will be remembered by me as....the first that I could buy Old Style cans with Cubs logos on them....

by coopergillan on Jul 16, 2006 11:14 PM CDT reply actions

Oh and Al....

I cannot agree more about the New York/ESPN hype machine. I love how much they had to dwell on 1908 and Bartman and the black cat, but they can't talk at all about DLee last year or El Duque getting dealt from the Diamondbacks!? Ay ay ay.

and for the record, I can't disagree more with everyone about Jon Miller and Joe Morgan. I love the way they call a game and don't think they feed too into some of the ESPN BS.

As a Cubs fan, The 2006 season will be remembered by me as....the first that I could buy Old Style cans with Cubs logos on them....

by coopergillan on Jul 16, 2006 11:27 PM CDT reply actions

Building a team around Prior and Wood

ESPN's mantra about the Cubs for the last few months has been the same - the central flaw in the Cubs thinking is that Wood and Prior would be two major starters for the team and that each would make 30 or so starts and perform at peak performance. If that were the case, the Cubs would have three 15-20 game winners in Prior, Wood and Zambrano and no one would be talking about firing Dusty.

As Joe Morgan so eloquently put it tonight, that IS the problem the Cubs have. Their hitting has not been timely most of the year either, but if Wood and Prior were pitching as well as Zambrano is (and Maddux was), the Cubs would be about 20 games better than they are right now. Depending on Marshall, Marmol, Hill, Guzman and other not ready for prime time pitchers has killed them this year.

As I've said before, the lion's share of the blame for this team is at a much higher level than Dusty. It starts with Hendry and goes up from there.

Next year, if the Cubs don't plan on having Prior and Wood, perhaps they'll be a much better team.

Or not.

Cubs fan since 1964

by jordango on Jul 17, 2006 1:27 AM CDT reply actions

Agree completely....

and another reason why I don't see why Joe Morgan deserves to be blasted. He seems to have a pretty good idea about why the Cubs are so bad.

He is pretty un-Moneyball is other areas though...

As a Cubs fan, The 2006 season will be remembered by me as....the first that I could buy Old Style cans with Cubs logos on them....

by coopergillan on Jul 17, 2006 2:22 AM CDT up reply actions

I dunno about 20 games...

... but even TEN games better would get the Cubs in contention in this weak NL season.

I agree that far too much was put into the Wood/Prior boat -- and it sank.

by Al Yellon on Jul 17, 2006 4:44 AM CDT up reply actions

Agree

My top 3 reasons for the fiasco this year:

Expecting Prior and Wood to pitch 30 games and with no backup plan.
An OF with 1/2 of a power hitter (Jones). Each one of the OF'ers is ok by themselves but as a complete OF, it's awful.
No decent hitters on the bench.

Note all 3 are Hendry's fault. I have always put 80% or more of the problems with this team on Hendry and the organization.

How many more games do you think the Cubs would have won if Neifi never played? After yesterday's game, maybe Neifi should be playing :=)

by rlpete on Jul 17, 2006 6:52 AM CDT up reply actions

Foul language on BCB ~ Garbage on the field.

While I completely understand the level of frustration many people have demonstrated here, after a short hiatus from BCB I have to admit I was a little surprised at the amount of foul language. Sure, ESPN's shameless sensationalism and Cubs management's reliance on what must be a Magic 8-ball are topics hot enough to get Mother Teresa cursing like a sailor.

However, a blog such as BCB deserves some respect. The free use of the f-bomb, over-seasoning the commentary with shitake, and such gems of decorum as "punch [her] in the babymaker" and "raped by our veterans" will make this place look like the warning track last night. There are other places on the 'net for that.

As we wait for Al to speak his mind today, I think it's worth mentioning the following...

Having attended several ESPN-televised games in Chicago and Boston, I fully agress with those who say that ESPN brings out the worst fans and brings out the worst even from good fans. Of course, the worst from a true supporter of any team is still usually better than the best from a fairweather fan. As far as I'm concerned, ESPN is not welcome in Wrigley or Fenway...or the World Cup. Golf commentators could have made the matches more exciting. Thank goodness for Univision--and I don't even speak Spanish!

by Mowgli on Jul 17, 2006 8:24 AM CDT reply actions