About Dusty Baker, Again

by Al on Jul 5, 2006 8:38 AM CDT in News Comment 196 comments

Multiple published reports in today's MSM indicate that Jim Hendry may be ready to "blow it all up" -- at least in terms of the coaching and managing staffs.

What Hendry said was:

"I'm evaluating everything. When you're having this kind of a year ... I'll sit down and reflect on the first half."

This led Mike Kiley to write in the Sun-Times:

You have to believe the Cubs already have sorted through their alternatives to Baker. Such changes aren't made overnight without forethought. Among the potential managers who could be plugged in immediately are Lou Piniella, Tom Kelly, Jimy Williams, Gene Lamont and Fredi Gonzalez -- all of whom have big-league managing experience, except for Gonzalez.

And Phil Rogers weighed in too:

You're going to be hearing all the familiar names in the next week, with most of the talk about Lou Piniella, the happily retired Tom Kelly and TV color analyst Bob Brenly (unless he takes his name out of consideration). Jimy Williams, one of the worst managers in history, would love another chance. Ditto Jim Fregosi, Lloyd McClendon and Tony Pena.

This is the same tired old stuff that we've all been debating here at BCB for weeks, although Rogers also said:

On the day that Jerry Reinsdorf passed out World Series rings at U.S. Cellular Field, he assured me he had never had a chip on his shoulder about the Cubs. In fact, he said, he had a great relationship with Tribune Co. Chairman/President and CEO Dennis FitzSimons and MacPhail.

Let's hope Hendry is open-minded enough to put Reinsdorf to the test by seeking permission to interview Razor Shines, the Sox's excellent manager at Triple-A Charlotte.

That's an intriguing thought, though as I have said here, IF Dusty Baker is not retained, my first choice would be Sox 3B coach Joey Cora, and next up would be Gonzalez.

But frankly, I think that all these writers read WAY too much into Hendry's statement that he would "evaluate" everyone during the All-Star break. Of course he'll do that. Why wouldn't he? But he's also gone on record as stating that he wanted to give Baker a chance with "his team", and that's only been (mostly) intact for a couple of weeks.

All of you know that I have defended Dusty Baker here. That is, of course, getting harder and harder to do, given the results of this catastrophe of a season. I still maintain that it is absolutely pointless to put some interim guy -- and it's been suggested that if Baker and the coaching staff were dumped, Chris Speier might be the only one retained and he'd be that "interim" guy -- in to finish out this morass of a year, and then conduct a search in the offseason, as they did in 2002.

Is that what you all want? Three months of another Bruce Kimm? What's the point?

Joey Cora's not going to be available right now. Fredi Gonzalez might be, given that the Braves are also going south at this time. Frankly, I'd rather NOT have a "big-name" guy -- because the Cubs have done that the last two times they hired a manager, with Don Baylor and Baker, and though they had some early success with both, the first ended with the Cubs having to pay Baylor for a year and a half to do nothing, and the Baker hiring may wind up in similar fashion. Thus, Hendry could look at teams like the White Sox, Angels, and at a lesser level, the Brewers, who have succeeded with guys who came in with NO managerial experience.

Thus, I'd let the year play out. Maybe the second half will recover to the point where Baker could be given an extension (with the condition that his buddy list of coaches be replaced by REAL coaches), or maybe it won't, in which case Hendry can spend the entire second half and early offseason getting someone in place, rather than just knee-jerking some guy into the job who'll have to be replaced anyway in October.

This season is lost. Why not take three more months to find the RIGHT guy for the longterm, instead of a quick fix to satisfy the angry mob?

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Full strength

or not, Dusty's time is nigh.

"I respect the mind's power over the body, it's why I do what I do" - Dr. Jonathan Crane

by Faith plus 1 on Jul 5, 2006 8:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

No managerial experience, eh?

I like that idea. How about Steve Stone, Al?

by slink on Jul 5, 2006 8:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

When I say ...

... "no managerial experience", I'd like to think that the guy would have had at least some COACHING experience, SOME time in the dugout dealing with players, rather than just talking about them on TV.

There's a big difference.

by Al on Jul 5, 2006 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If hendry Doesn't believe Dusty's the guy....

Then three months of Lame duck Dusty is just as bad as three months of whatever Bruce Kimm wannabe interim manager. Isn't it?

I've defended Dusty alost as much as Al has. Every player on that team was asked to step it up and with the exception of Z, nobody did....that's not Dusty's fault. But Dusty hasn't done much right either and the record speaks for itself. And the team he was hired to manage is nothing, NOTHING like the team is going to be in 2007.So he should go. Just because this team can't move forward until this mess is resolved.

They'll never hire the guy I want so I won't even mention it. The Braves coach sounds intriguing. Joey Cora too. This is Hendry's last manager pick right? I sure hope he puts a lot of thought into it too.

by yahoodi on Jul 5, 2006 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just curious Al.....

is it okay to lead the get rid of Nefi angry mob?

Or is it okay to lead get rid of Jose Macias angry mob?

You seem to try to have it both ways. I remember seeing a lot of DFA talk from your end. Is that not a "quick fix"? For some of us baseball fans here, we are tired of seeing this team continue to make the same mistakes time and time again.

You, on the other hand, seem to be okay with it. You constantly run out the b.s. about firing Dusty's coaches. That is a joke, and a tired one at that. Whether or not the coaches are replaced is irrelevant. Dusty runs the team and ultimately makes the lineups and is responsible for holding his team accountable. No new coaches will change that.

he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Jul 5, 2006 8:51 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Replacing the manager...

... is always the "easy" thing, isn't it? He's the easy target, for exactly the reason you state -- because he's the guy in charge.

I'm not saying Baker should necessarily be retained for 2007. I'm just saying that firing him now is pointless.

by Al on Jul 5, 2006 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And replacing.....

a player you do not like is different how?

IMHO, your arguements against those of us who want Baker gone is hypocritical.

Either way, this will be resolved soon. Baker will be gone and unfortunately, I have a feeling I may be reading about why the Cubs hired Pinella.

he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Jul 5, 2006 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

So you mean

to tell me that you want to keep his pet and Glendone and all those who don't deserve to be on an ML roster?

"I respect the mind's power over the body, it's why I do what I do" - Dr. Jonathan Crane

by Faith plus 1 on Jul 5, 2006 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No....

I am saying that all of the players and coaches should be evaluated equally. IMHO, Al does not do this. He picks and chooses. He targets the flavor of the day. If you were evaluating all things Cubs, I think Dusty and Glendon (and others) would be at the top of the worst performers list.

he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Jul 5, 2006 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

How is it, exactly...

... that I target the "flavor of the day"? I don't see that at all.

by Al on Jul 5, 2006 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It is always...

Nefi, Macias, ect..... You focus your anger on bit players. These guys are not the problem. They are put in positions that set them up for failure. The person creating the lineup is responsible.

I rarely see you criticize the regulars. I think that you go after the bit players because it provides you safe harbor. They will eventually be gone, whereas the starters are part of Cub lore. It is always easy to criticize the little guys....

he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Jul 5, 2006 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rebuttal

While Al doesn't need anyone to stick up for him, you are wrong on him only picking on starters. He is one of the harshest here on Michael Barrett. He is also saying that Cedeno should not be the long-term SS.

by rlpete on Jul 5, 2006 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not picking on starters

Insert "not" into my prior post.

by rlpete on Jul 5, 2006 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I will take your word....

for it on the Barrett talk. I do not recall long discussions on Barrett's lack of defensive prowess. Most of the Barrett talk has centered on AJP.

he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Jul 5, 2006 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re

And, I'll add, you acknowledge the various liabilities DustBag has as a manager, but you refuse to draw the logical conclusion that these liabilities are directly responsible for the performance of the team.

As I've said before, you've become an ideologue as far as Baker is concerned, and to remain so, you twist reality so as to serve your predetermined conclusions: Dusty Baker is not at fault, he should remain the field manager, and he might even deserve an extension.

To accomplish this, you do target a villan de jour. This lets you continue to defend Baker while accounting for the death spiral the Cub's have been in since collasping the last two weeks in 2004.

Please - give yourself pause and consider that all that's been going on with the $90MM+ payrolls have something to do with the person hired to produce results. Just how much evidence does it take before a reasonable person acknowledges that Baker's not doing the job for which he's being paid $4MM/year?

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by Jed Taylor on Jul 5, 2006 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hear Hear...

Very well said....

he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Jul 5, 2006 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Corect me

if I'm wrong here but Al has embraced the fact this whole team isn't playing as they should be. In fact a few days ago he was saying Neifi should've been IN THE GAME.

"I respect the mind's power over the body, it's why I do what I do" - Dr. Jonathan Crane

by Faith plus 1 on Jul 5, 2006 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Did you read WHY I said that?

Because Neifi has ONE good purpose on this team -- as a defensive replacement. That one play that cost the club the game on Saturday, could have been made by Neifi.

That's all.

by Al on Jul 5, 2006 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Al

I'm not indicting you, I'm defending you.

"I respect the mind's power over the body, it's why I do what I do" - Dr. Jonathan Crane

by Faith plus 1 on Jul 5, 2006 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re

Oh, please. The first commentary out of Lou's mouth was what a tough play that was. Neifi's the Michelen Man with spindly legs this year. On what planet does Perez successfully field the ball off Dempster and throw the runner out? It was only because of Cedeno's quickness that he was able to even reach out for the ball and make a stab to barehand it. All Neifi would have done is say "Ole!" as it went by.

This is an excellent example of why Perez should be DFA'd, and Cedeno given every start possible. Maybe in a couple of years of development, Cedeno actually barehands that ball and makes the correct throw, reaching back and off-balance. But to get between today and then, he needs to play, not be benched for a grizzled vet coasting on rep and being the manager's pet.

Visit The Digital Gazette

by Jed Taylor on Jul 5, 2006 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I will correct you...

that comment was b.s.

I looked at the replay again and again. The play was going to be bang bang. IMHO, whether it was Nefi, Cedeno, Jeter or ?????? Gload was going to be safe.

Again, you can't have it both ways.

he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Jul 5, 2006 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you've

"corrected" me on the fact that it was a missed play, not the fact Al was pulling for Neifi to be in the game.

"I respect the mind's power over the body, it's why I do what I do" - Dr. Jonathan Crane

by Faith plus 1 on Jul 5, 2006 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let me be more clear....

the previous day he was going on and on about how Nefi should be DFA'd. Which one is it?

BTW, I am waiting for you to "recipe" me....

he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Jul 5, 2006 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

why would

I recipe you? That's just stupid.

Neifi should be DFA'd, but as long as you have him on your bench, why not make some use out of him for what he's 'good' at?

"I respect the mind's power over the body, it's why I do what I do" - Dr. Jonathan Crane

by Faith plus 1 on Jul 5, 2006 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sarcasm.....

Is Nefi REALLY good defensively?

he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Jul 5, 2006 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't understand

n/t

"I respect the mind's power over the body, it's why I do what I do" - Dr. Jonathan Crane

by Faith plus 1 on Jul 5, 2006 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

what is there....

to understand?

he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Jul 5, 2006 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He means

that Neifi is NOT good defensively. And that is true.

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 5, 2006 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Better Fielding%

than Ronny. Check it out.

Don't get me wrong, I want Neifi, and Glendone DFA'd just as much as the next guy.

"I respect the mind's power over the body, it's why I do what I do" - Dr. Jonathan Crane

by Faith plus 1 on Jul 5, 2006 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fielding %

means very little when you range is one step left, one step right.....

he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Jul 5, 2006 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

or deny it

either way, doesn't matter to me.

"I respect the mind's power over the body, it's why I do what I do" - Dr. Jonathan Crane

by Faith plus 1 on Jul 5, 2006 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It doesn't matter how well he fields it

if he throws it away or beans an opposing player after he picks it up. Oh, and also if he just stands there not knowing where to throw it, or if he fails to cover second when the shortstop fields the ball in short left, or if he trips his own player because he's running around like an idiot in the infield.

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 5, 2006 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Look, I can't stand Neifi anymore than anyone...

else but the guy is generally considered one of the best fielders in all of baseball.

The stats back it up. 3rd in all of MLB last year in fielding percentage among shortstops. 7th in range factor and 2nd in zone rating.

He can't hit worth a damn and when Dusty is relieved next week he should be sent out the door with him along with Glendon, but let's not start making things up about a player just because we don't like him.

Neifi is an excellent defensive player who should never be allowed within 100 yards of home plate with a bat. He's had a long career in the bigs because of how well he fields and not because of Dusty.

He never even played for Dusty until 2004.

by felixfelicis on Jul 5, 2006 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There is absolutely no way...

... Hendry will hire Piniella.

by Al on Jul 5, 2006 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

For some....

God forsaken reason, I feel he will bring him in to "instill discipline". You know I do not want him. I just have a bad feeling that this is their path forward.....

he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Jul 5, 2006 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I see what you mean...

... but "discipline" or "no-nonsense" isn't what this club needs. It needs better players.

by Al on Jul 5, 2006 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agree....

but you are asking the man who put the team together to admit that he is equally to blame. I don't see that happening anytime soon.

he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Jul 5, 2006 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would

prefer he didn't hire Piniella. He's had his time and doesn't strike me as a good fit for the Cubs.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the Cubs need a modern genius, not an old school voodoo person. This team is all emotion and curses already, so they need a surgeon, a quiet professional assassin type to come in and outhink the rest of the NL Central to a title.

Wasn't Joey Cora on his hands and knees biting one of the Cubs' ankles during the AJ/Barrett disturbance?

by Matt Allison on Jul 5, 2006 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And if the manager of the restaurant I own

(theoretically, of course) were not getting results and not getting the profits I think are reasonable--or minimally attainable--I would have fired him/her months ago.

Dusty's performance in the face of adversity has been atrocious. Granted, his hands were tied, but he has to do something (i.e., leak P.R. reports about the team doing fundamental drills for 15 minutes before every batting practice session). Anything to avert the disastrous perception that most fans, media and other baseball people seem to have about this team and its capabilities.

And, worse yet, now his interviews are those of a wounded dog. What kind of leader has the "i don't know" excuse? That would be the last straw for me. I would fire him on his way out of that interview session.

by jcub on Jul 5, 2006 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Al, you're totally missing the big picture here

There's a minor league manager named RAZOR SHINES??? This is the greatest news of the day, even better than North Korea testing nuclear missiles.

What's the batting coach's name, Mirror Reflects? LOLTHESEASONISLOSTLOL

...right downtown and PRINT IT!!!

by CliffX on Jul 5, 2006 8:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

You think that's a joke...

... but it's not.

Here is Shines' major league playing record; he had a few cups of coffee with the Expos.

One of his teammates was, of course, Tim Raines; thus that team had both Raines and Shines. Too bad they didn't have J. T. Snow.

by Al on Jul 5, 2006 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Razor Shines would be a good pick

I saw this guy play maybe 50 games at AAA. He hustled all of the time, and knows the game - aggressive but not stupid. Seems like he was all ways getting the big hit at AAA, but was one of thiose guys who couldn't make it in the Bigs. He must have played AAA for 6 or 7 years.

If he manages anything like he plays - he's a good pick.

by Ihatethecards on Jul 5, 2006 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Twenty years ago

I was at a pizza parlor in Indianapolis, and met a group of people that included the wife of a AAA baseball player. She was having a conversation at the other end of the table and I heard her say "Razor Shines." I said, "Razor Shines! What about him?" And she said, "You know who that IS?" He was her husband's teammate. Not that I can recall the husband's name--must not have been as colorful as Razor Shines. But I guess I was also a minor league geek even back then. She couldn't believe I knew about the guy.

By the way, that experience stayed with me. It had never occurred to me that minor league players and wives felt like they were unknown and unappreciated. Sure, maybe once they make the bigs, they are "above the crowd." But when you're in your third year of AAA and trying to support a couple kids, a kind word is appreciated.

by zambranofan on Jul 5, 2006 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Razor in action

I live in Charlotte, and although I loathe the White Sox, it's the only baseball in town so I go to several Knights games a month. Shines has done wonders with this team; they have the best record of all AAA teams (55-30). He's a no-nonsense kind of guy (pardon the cliche); something the Cubs could use.

IMO, it would be a great addition, if Reinsdorf is true to his word as Al says.

Poppppppppped it up...

by nextyearcub on Jul 5, 2006 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

more talent

...Sox AAA probably has more talent than the Cubs right now.

I'm just saying.

by MikeJ on Jul 5, 2006 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I just can't believe all this

Pierre is red hot and upped his average to .270; Walker is at .287; DLee .313; Barrett .305; Jones a solid .307 and new guy back Pagan at .310. Cedeno has cooled but is rookie respectable .265. How do we lose 8 of 10, this team should be geting hotter but gets worse. Pitching has stunk but we don't score runs either. RISP is the answer and for the first time I'll admit Dusty may have to go. I would like to see what a good two weeks of pitching and hitting would do and get a firm idea of who to keep and who to trade away. The team is the most healthy since opening day and suck worse than they have all year. It is painful being a Cubs fan.

by mrcubsfan on Jul 5, 2006 8:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

RISP is definitely the problem here...

... how is that Baker's fault? The players aren't hitting with RISP.

by Al on Jul 5, 2006 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Getting brainwashed by Moneyball...

I'm about to finish "Moneyball" and I am starting to believe Billy Bean's idea that there is no such thing as hitting with RISP. I really think it is luck....

or maybe not luck. Maybe the guys who are the good hitters are not coming up with RISP. I think the Cubs suffer from a manager and front office that has no appreciate for OBP, P/PA or any of those other 21st century stats that tell a lot more about a player than AVG w/ RISP or SO or anything.

On another note, even if the Cubs do hire some "scrub" interim, I still think it is important to send a signal that things WILL change, starting with the unsuccessful manager leaving. Why not show Dusty the door to tell the fans that change is coming, DFA Neifi, Glendon, others, bring up the rookies, start the search for a new managing and coaching staff and make a few free agent signings in the off-season. I wouldn't care if we were losing 8 of 10 if we had that sort of season to look forward to!

As a Cubs fan, The 2006 season will be remembered by me as....the first that I could buy Old Style cans with Cubs logos on them....

by coopergillan on Jul 5, 2006 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

moneyball

Think many would agree w/your comment on cubs complete lack of appreciation for obp. How else to explain murton benching for nevin?

Also wanted to point out that beane doesnt believe much in sac bunts, where it is one of dusty's favorite moves. He leads the league in the sac bunt w/runner on 2nd and no outs. Not sure what the odds say, but just pointing out what dusty does that A's do not.

On a side note, think they should make up a blackjack-like card for dusty highlighting the odds of game strategy moves he makes, at least so he knows when he "goes w/his gut" that hes going against the odds...

by shootthemoon on Jul 5, 2006 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here's why not (not that I'm disagreeing)

Al said, "This season is lost. Why not take three more months to find the RIGHT guy for the longterm, instead of a quick fix to satisfy the angry mob?"

This season is lost, but certain players are at critical stages in their development. These next few months are the time to find out if the problems with Matt Murton (hitting righties), Rich Hill (throwing strikes), Michael Barrett (defense), Ryan Dempster (control and focus), and others are partly a result of the coaching staff.

IF you could hire a Fredi Gonzalez right now, and IF he could recruit coaches right now FOR THE LONG TERM, then you might improve your position going into next year by making a managerial change now.

I think Hendry knows who he wants next, just like he did when he fired Baylor. To me, the bigger question is whether there are enough quality coaches available mid-season, so you don't have wholesale turnover now and again at the end of the season. I believe the turnover in coaches would hurt the young players most.

On the other hand, I'm beginning to think the atmosphere around the team has become so negative that Hendry will be forced to make a major change over the break, and it will probably mean firing Dusty. Ironically, that could mean Speier could be interim with most of the coaches retained until the end of the season, which hardly solves the problem.

Another angle: Hendry also apparently needs to replace some scouts and shake up the player development side. Maybe Oneiri Fleita got overpromoted, too. Hendry could announce some moves on that end over the break, waiting until the end of the year to let Baker go.

by zambranofan on Jul 5, 2006 8:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

This is well reasoned...

... I admit the atmosphere seems pretty bad; it is, in fact, reminiscent of Don Baylor's last couple of weeks with the Cubs in 2002.

You mention Gonzalez, and yes, he might be available -- but I doubt they could put together a first-rate coaching staff right now, in the middle of the season, when most of those guys are NOT available.

by Al on Jul 5, 2006 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Probably not all new coaches

But you could probably assume that Rothschild and Speier would stay, bring Joshua up to replace Clines, and somebody to replace Pole. You couldn't keep Dusty's buddies after you fire Dusty. Sarge, whatever. Sonny Jackson see ya.

Also, while I appreciated that Rothschild turned down a more lucrative offer to go to Detroit, there is no turning away from the fact that this pitching staff has suffered under his guidance. I can't think of what in his performance would indicate that he should stay.

by davidalanu on Jul 5, 2006 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

wouldn't

they have their pick of most minor league coaches in most systems? who wouldn't, if he were the pitching coach in pawtucket or something, accept a position as pitching coach of the cubs, even at mid-season? and what gm/owner would block them? that would pretty much poison your relationship with that coach.

seems like they have a world of options, other than the guys currently coaching mlb teams who will be fired at the end of the season, and who would want them anyways?

i say hire an up and coming manager like gonzalez/shines etc, and have he and hendry find the most talented minor league coaches, from any system, with similar philosophies to the new manager.

by tomas21 on Jul 5, 2006 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree mostly...

with you. I don't want to give up on the young players too soon, but we can't wait forever either. They need better teachers and then get evaluated.

Cubbie Blue will always sPaRkLe in my eyes, but please stop losing. PLEASE!

by sparkles721 on Jul 5, 2006 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

"What's the point?

Here's the point - If the Cubs keep Baker around, we'll keep seeing Neifi!, Pierre and other worthless veterans get playing time because they are Dusty's guys. He needs to go immediately, and replaced with a manager who will play the kids, so we can see what we have.

Fire Baker now.
DFA Perez now.
DFA Rusch now.
Trade Pierre now.
Play the kids.

Baker would be upset if Hendry dared to make any of the moves above. Baker's gotta go. As soon as Sunday's game ends, show him the door.

One day, the dream will come true.

by brianp88 on Jul 5, 2006 9:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Re

Ah, the false alternatives rhetoric.

Getting rid of the DustBag isn't merely an appeal to the angry mob. Rather, it's finally acknowledging what most already know - Dusty Baker is an incompetent field manager whose presence harms the development of players with a potential future.

There is absolutely nothing - NOTHING - to be gained by retaining DustBag. He's horrid tactically, he preaches hacking (which he revealed on the Cubs pregame that that what was he was pissed off about with Cedeno), and he's completely lost the team. And after the disasters of 2004, 2005, and 2006, you suggest he might be retained? Pass the bong, Al. You've been bogarting it far too long.

The 2nd half of 2006 should be used for player development and evaluation. Retaining the DustBag will prevent this. It's time to start working on the 2007 season, and the first step in doing so is firing Dusty Baker and sweeping away his sorry, omnipresent incompetence.

Good lord. I haven't seen such uncritical adoration since that woman set off doves at the Michael Jackson trial. Dusty Baker is killing the Cubs. You attend every home game, and you want to watch more of the same in the 2nd half?

The only requirement for an interim manager is that he be a teacher, and he bring a staff of teachers. In fact, firing the DustBag now gives the franchise a leg up on the entire field as it now becomes reality that the Cubs job is available and back-channel contacts can be made in preparation for hiring a permanent field manager in the offseason.

I just don't know what to say when someone claims it's pointless to fire the DustBag before the end of this season. The only thing I can think of is he took the over as to how many ABs Neifi would get in 2006.

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by Jed Taylor on Jul 5, 2006 9:06 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

agreed....

wow...agreed.

"I respect the mind's power over the body, it's why I do what I do" - Dr. Jonathan Crane

by Faith plus 1 on Jul 5, 2006 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

While I agree with Al

That bring in a interim train wreck is not productive, your post is dead-on, Jed. I don't believe for a second that Baker will assist in the evaluation process that needs to take place. And we've all seen that his method of teaching is less than successful.

by davidalanu on Jul 5, 2006 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Amen

I was gonna give my reasons, but waited until I read everyone's comments. You nailed it!

by Matt Allison on Jul 5, 2006 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ditto

let the kids play, there's no reason why Murton shouldnt be playing as much as possible at this point. I, for one, would much rather watch a team full of young hopefuls (murton, pie, pagan, hill, etc) getting their feet wet and making mistakes than the current lineup getting paid the big bucks to do nothing more. On a very basic level, it'll give us something to be excited about again (and calm the angry mob some) as we watch a team being built and future big leage careers developing. Plus, with the season already gone and a lineup full of young guys, the pressure won't be quite as great on each individual, they'll have time to develop their game without worrying about making mistakes. needless to say dusty wont allow this, so adios buddy

by Murtons Sideburns on Jul 5, 2006 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re

That's a good point about how with a team of young guys, the pressure won't be as great on any particular one of them.

Cedeno's under tremendous pressure right now not to wind up like Murton, Dubois, or Choi, and because he's young under Baker, his mistakes, which are going down as the season progresses, stand out like DustBag's wrist bands. And then there are the situations that aren't mistakes, but thanks to DustBag being the manager, the kids wind up thinking they are; Cedeno takes a 3-1 pitch with the runner moving (but it was neither a straight steal nor a hit-and-run according to Baker), and the normally narcoleptic DustBag gets out of his corner to rip him a new one for not being aggressive at the plate. Sorry DustBag, but if you want him to swing that badly, put the hit-and-run on. God forbid Cedeno draw a BB, or still be at the plate with the runner in position to be driven in.

Imagine how much better things would be with a coaching staff teaching patience at the plate and smart situational hitting to a group of kids still developing their skills. Why, the box scores might actually show more than one or two BBs in the games, as well as more than one or two runs.

Visit The Digital Gazette

by Jed Taylor on Jul 5, 2006 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Time is ticking down

A few weeks ago, I thought Baker would last the year. I'm not so sure now. Seems like the Cubs brass are letting comments sneak out a little more. The press is picking up on it as well. Seems to me that things are picking up steam. I think part of the reason is that Dusty now has all the horses he's getting this year (Prior and Lee back but Wood not likely) and the Cubs still are losing. If the Cubs play flat through the weekend, it wouldn't surprise me if the Cubs make a change over the break. Chris Speier as interim is a logical guess.

As for a permanent choice, get some new qualified blood. Pinella isn't likely coming and I don't want him. Brenly doesn't excite me either. Sandberg, Stone, Greg Maddux are not realistic choices. And after all these years of Manager Toothpick, I would like to see a little passion. Maybe not as much as Guillen but I want to see someone that seems to care. I don't need Pinella tantrums but just a little irritation when the team loses might be nice.

by rlpete on Jul 5, 2006 9:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I just can't even imagine

what it must be like in the club house.I would love to know how the players feel and get their take on how to solve the problems with this team.

I loathe AJP and White Sox fans!!

by sue369 on Jul 5, 2006 9:09 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Exactly and what will happen

The club house is probably all grumbling and pissing. That is why (my opinion) there will be some house cleaning of PLAYERS soon, not coaches. Hendry knows Baker did not get totally stupid since arriving and will give him more time. A few guys will take the fall and we'll have a look and see if things turn around; if not, more trades. And for those who want to trade Pierre, let's wait, he's been so hot, we don't want to give up on the hardest position to land (lead off) and complain all winter again. Also, Rich Hill, that AAAA player, has dominated, probably time to give him one last look during this time period.

by mrcubsfan on Jul 5, 2006 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Al, I need some explanation.....

I am not saying I disagree, I've just never heard your reasoning for wanting Cora so badly. Can you give us some of your reasons?

by ontheuptick on Jul 5, 2006 9:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I've stated these before...

... but they do bear repeating.

First, he's been a key coach on a World Series winner. He's young (41), so perhaps more in tune with today's players.

Most importantly, he is Latino, and speaks Spanish as his first language. In an era when nearly 1/3 of rosters are native Spanish speakers, the importance of this cannot be understated.

The White Sox credit Jose Contreras' resurgence to the fact that his manager (and some of his coaches) could speak to him in his native language. Many Latino players not only have trouble with the language here, they have to make an adjustment to American culture. Having a manager who is from their culture could be a big help.

by Al on Jul 5, 2006 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's what I thought....

...but I didn't know if there was something else I hadn't heard you say.

Basically, he's an Ozzie clone (young, hispanic, etc) without the mouth...

I hope he would bring some accountability that Ozzie has over there, and Dusty doesn't have here. I think Dusty's constant excuses and talking about all the "bad luck" we've had every year are sickening.

by ontheuptick on Jul 5, 2006 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You want to hire him

because he speaks Spanish?

You say that is most important?

You need a vacation.

by Matt Allison on Jul 5, 2006 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great post.

i dont care about speaking spanish first. i'm a firm believer that if your going to live here and work here...LEARN ENGLISH.

wheatfield mike down here in god's country

by wheatfield mike on Jul 5, 2006 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I kind of agree...

but even after people learn English it is still easier to speak your native language. It's a comfort thing too. It's not a vital thing, but it really does help. I love being able to speak two languages because I never have to stand and stare at people because I have no idea what they are saying to me.

English is hard to learn, especially for adults. I think it's rare when people learn English as adults without an accent. My dad has lived here since he was 18, and he still doesn't know English well.

Cubbie Blue will always sPaRkLe in my eyes, but please stop losing. PLEASE!

by sparkles721 on Jul 5, 2006 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

what's your other language?

As a Cubs fan, The 2006 season will be remembered by me as....the first that I could buy Old Style cans with Cubs logos on them....

by coopergillan on Jul 5, 2006 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Spanish.

And I'm working on French.

Cubbie Blue will always sPaRkLe in my eyes, but please stop losing. PLEASE!

by sparkles721 on Jul 5, 2006 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

which is your native language?

I did spanish in high school and swedish in college. French would be fun also.

As a Cubs fan, The 2006 season will be remembered by me as....the first that I could buy Old Style cans with Cubs logos on them....

by coopergillan on Jul 5, 2006 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Spanish.

Cubbie Blue will always sPaRkLe in my eyes, but please stop losing. PLEASE!

by sparkles721 on Jul 5, 2006 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

where is your father from?

I live in Tucson right now and there are LOTS of spanish speakers here.

As a Cubs fan, The 2006 season will be remembered by me as....the first that I could buy Old Style cans with Cubs logos on them....

by coopergillan on Jul 6, 2006 12:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's really irrelevant...

... of course all the Latino players here know English. As said elsewhere, it's a comfort zone sort of thing.

The White Sox were pretty successful doing this. There's something to it, I believe.

by Al on Jul 5, 2006 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

LaRussa

I've read from mulitple sources that Tony LaRussa speaks Spanish, and that his language skills have been a big boon to his success as a manager.

by Romero on Jul 5, 2006 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

doesn't

dusty speak spanish. i think i heard that.

the guy could speak swahili for all i care if he can get the guys to hustle to first, work the count, and have pitchers put people away when they're up o-2.

by tomas21 on Jul 5, 2006 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great Post

Telling people to learn English in a post with no fewer than five grammatical mistakes.

Might want to try learning English yourself, first.

by Josh77 on Jul 5, 2006 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re

In general, this is true. Try going anywhere in this world and demanding that the people and institutions speak English for your benefit. At the very least, you'll get laughed at.

Professional sports is different. The goal of the organization should be to maximize the performance of each player, and if accomplishing this requires communicating in a language other than English so as to successfully convey subtle distinctions and nuances, then it's a mistake not to do so.

That being said, what a team needs is a professional sports translator. Hiring a person to manage a professional sports team because of his primary language is, at best, myopic.

Hey Sparks - want to work for the Cubs someday? Major in professional sports administration with a minor in modern cultural linguistics. Then market yourself as a professional sports translator who can guarantee that the meaning as well as the words of conversations will be conveyed amongst all parties. And then come back and feed us the inside scoop on what's really going on in the clubhouse and front office.

Visit The Digital Gazette

by Jed Taylor on Jul 5, 2006 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You know...

my parents are actually kind of worried I want to go work for the Cubs. I have thought about it. They don't really want me to, but they are going to support anything I do.

I'm still sticking to pediatrician for now.

Cubbie Blue will always sPaRkLe in my eyes, but please stop losing. PLEASE!

by sparkles721 on Jul 5, 2006 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

joey cora

i haven't seen or heard joey cora mentioned as a candidate anywhere outside this blog. has anyone else? it seems like if a young hispanic third base coach from a winning organization is what jim hendry is looking for, he'd hire fredi gonzalez. his name has come up in just about every managerial search in the last five years, and was on hendry's short list when baker was hired.

by jamie on Jul 5, 2006 9:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Agree on Fredi Gonzalez

I hope the Cubs look at him seriously. He comes from Bobby Cox's organization and surely some of that has rubbed off on him. Cox is level headed (unless he's argueing a call), handles his players well and isn't afraid to play young guys. Cox also handles a pitching staff well and the organization as a whole does a pretty good job evaluating talent. If Fredi Gonzalez is anything like that he could be great for us.

by pageian on Jul 5, 2006 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

level-headed

i watch a lot of braves games, and i can tell you that when bobby cox is getting kicked out of a game arguing calls, he is still being level-headed. if it looks like the braves are starting to give up on a game, he gets them re-focused by staging a blowup at an umpire. and it usually works. it's not the one thing that makes him a great manager, but it's a good example. i'm sure gonzalez has learned a lot about managing working for him.

by jamie on Jul 5, 2006 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

BOBBY COX IS NOT RIGHT FOR THIS TEAM!

he doesnt speak spanish as his native tongue.
he wins...ALOT!
he's too old.
the cubs need to hire a no name with no experiance so there is a built in excuse for him to lose and not get on the ass of our lazy players.
and most important...he doesnt have enough toothpicks!

'nuff said

wheatfield mike down here in god's country

by wheatfield mike on Jul 5, 2006 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

just make sure..

we never consider an older manager, that is white, that has a winning record, and is tough on his players.

wheatfield mike down here in god's country

by wheatfield mike on Jul 5, 2006 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i'm for getting lou pinella

proven winner, tough on players and wont take crap from anyone.

wheatfield mike down here in god's country

by wheatfield mike on Jul 5, 2006 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Uh, see my post below

Did you hear him on Saturday calling the game? I seriously question his fitness to be in society at this point.

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 5, 2006 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

not everyone can do color.

after 3 yrs of being on local sports radio, i found it was very tough for newer people to do the color side of the broadcast. i had some people that were very smart, sound like they didn't have a clue when the mic was on.
i want lou for my manager, not my color guy.

wheatfield mike down here in god's country

by wheatfield mike on Jul 5, 2006 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lou is perhaps even worse than Dusty

He doesn't know how to deal with young players, has no concept of OBP, and his tirades, while mildly entertaining, don't actually accomplish anything.

by VS on Jul 5, 2006 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Right Guy

The Cubs could always take the Chicago Symphony Orchestra approach. The CSO's long time Music Director left. The CSO wants a good long term replacement. They also realized that naming a long term replacement quickly might not work. So they went out and named a conductor to act on an interim basis. A major international conductor in his 70's or 80's. And then they conducted a search for the right person.

What the Cubs should do is fire Dusty and bring in a clear short term caretaker. A Don Zimmer or Tommy Lasorda or the like. Charge him with the sole responsibility of evaluating the young talent. Give him half a season to do it. Meanwhile the Cubs top brass sit down and go over everything that they want or need in a manager. Identify the people that meet those criteria, and as soon as feasible (once the season is over) interview the preferred candidates.

This does both things. It gives them a chance to evaluate young talent - something which clearly will not happen under Baker and it gives them the time to find the right guy by giving them extra search time without the problem of having an interim manager in the hiring mix (with the usually Dead Cat bounce problem making it more likely that a mistake will be made).

Orchestra's do this. Churches do this. Lots of well run organizations do this. Why not the Cubs.

by Frustrated Fan on Jul 5, 2006 9:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

a fine idea

i'm guessing tom kelly has been watching a lot of cubs games since he sat with macphail at the metrodome. he may be "happily retired", but i bet he'd take an interim position to help out his old boss.

by jamie on Jul 5, 2006 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And do what

Churches do. Make it clear that the interim hired to finish out the season under no conditions of any kind whatsoever will be brought back the following season to manager - even if he goes undefeated. That's why I want someone like Sparky Anderson or Tommy Lasorda who absolutely will not be coming back. Tom Kelley might be just such a guy.

by Frustrated Fan on Jul 5, 2006 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re

Indeed. Why not the Cubs?

Well stated.

Visit The Digital Gazette

by Jed Taylor on Jul 5, 2006 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Then how about Jack McKeon?

He seemed to understand which young players were the best on the Florida team, and might be willing to take a short-term gig, if it were followed by a position as a major-league scout or PT front office assistant.

by zambranofan on Jul 5, 2006 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I vote for Fredi.

He works under Bobby Cox. If Fredi turns out like Ned Yost it would be great.

I also want no big names. I want them to try something new.

Cubbie Blue will always sPaRkLe in my eyes, but please stop losing. PLEASE!

by sparkles721 on Jul 5, 2006 10:03 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

No big names

All of the big names that are out there right now are currently out of a job. Wonder why? They have their faults just like Dusty does. I agree that we should stay away from the big name coaches and go with someone who cares more about the team than his salary.

by pageian on Jul 5, 2006 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

missy

shouldn't you be at work?

"I respect the mind's power over the body, it's why I do what I do" - Dr. Jonathan Crane

by Faith plus 1 on Jul 5, 2006 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nope.

At least not yet.

Cubbie Blue will always sPaRkLe in my eyes, but please stop losing. PLEASE!

by sparkles721 on Jul 5, 2006 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well

...uh...then...yeah! That's right you are!

"I respect the mind's power over the body, it's why I do what I do" - Dr. Jonathan Crane

by Faith plus 1 on Jul 5, 2006 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Shaking it up

I have been saying this since May, the Cubs approach to the game, is horrible. The tactical decisions by Baker appear to be self-destructive or at the very least indefensible. Worse is that it is creating an atmosphere on the team that is defeating. Williamson's assessment is the most damning, favoritism not performance.

All forms of organizations change field command, corporations military or sports teams.

Al's observation that who takes over is more important since it is inevitable.

Results are the testament to who is performing.

Bill Veeck planted Ivy during 'The Depression', and over time the Ivy Walls has become the most distinct symbol of Wrigley Field.

by Ivy Walls on Jul 5, 2006 10:27 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

After hearing Pinella in the booth on Saturday,

I shudder at the thought of him running this team.

Is he senile? Heavily medicated? What's WRONG with him? My favorite part of the broadcast, hands down, was when he just started doing play-by-play for no reason. One minute he's talking about hitting technique, the next he goes, "two and two to Juan Pierre here in the bottom of X inning. . ." and just kept going with it. It was followed by a stunned silence from his broadcast partner, who clearly didn't know what to say.

Seriously, he ain't right in the head.

I still haven't heard a single person on this site answer as to why we couldn't get Jack McKeon. Heck, if it were for half a season only, he might actually find it MORE appealing.

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 5, 2006 10:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Jack McKeon...

... is 75 years old and retired. Why would you want him? Because he defeated the Cubs in the 2003 playoffs?

IF Baker is fired, I want a younger guy in there. Cora or Gonzalez.

McKeon is exactly the wrong guy for this team. You haven't said why you want him, either.

by Al on Jul 5, 2006 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think..

..it was ONLY with the understanding that it would be an interim job for the remainder of the season.

vote santo for h.o.f.

by santo for prez on Jul 5, 2006 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why do I want him?

Are you kidding?

Because he's the anti-Dusty. He's everything this team needs: a hard-nosed manager who stresses fundamentals, who benches players who underperform, who gets mad when players makes stupid mistakes, who isn't afraid to play the youngins, who took a lackluster, BAD team in 2003, turned them around, and led them to the World Series.

Why do I want him?

On the other hand, I can't think of a single reason that Dusty should stay on with this team past say. .. oh. . . right now. Yes, I know Hendry put together a horrible team, but Walker hitting .455 vs. Hairston was a no-brainer. Not inserting Neifi, Bynum, or Womack into the lineup every day was a no-brainer. Not bringing in Novoa when the game is on the line is a no-brainer. Just like hitting Walker in leadoff instead of Patterson and bringing in Alfonseca and Hawkins in save situations was a no-brainer. Arrrrgggghhhh!!!!! That he's even still around at all makes me so mad!

On the other hand, Joey Cora's qualifications are that he coaches 3b on a championship team and he speaks spanish? Freakin' Wendell Kim coached 3b on the 2003 Cubs, should we throw him into the mix, too? I have no clue what Cora does on that team. For all I know, he carries around Ozzie's lunch all day and schedules his senstivity training classes. He's an unknown quantity.

That vein over my left eye is doing that thing again. I'm afraid I'm going to have to excuse myself.

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 5, 2006 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Age means nothing.....

teaching solid, fundemental baseball is the winning ticket.

Trader Jack would be fine with me....

he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Jul 5, 2006 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

One of the main reasons

to get rid of Baker is because he's been unable to develop any young talent. Corey Patterson is exhibit A. In fact, Baker has been reluctant to even play any of the young talent. If you let him finish the season he'll try to play as many of "his guys" as possible because he'll want to win as many ballgames he can to save his job.

For the good of the franchise the Cubs need a guy who will come in and play the young guys to evaluate the talent the organization has for next season. Dusty will not do this and that's why it's in the best interest of the Cubs to get rid of him, even if it's for an interim guy. Ideally the Cubs will find hire a permanent solution this season (i.e. Gonzalez), but even if they don't Baker has to go. Somoeone has to evaluate the organizational talent (i.e. play the young guys) and Baker is clearly the wrong guy to do it.

Al, I'm astonished you're advocating retaining Baker. Letting Baker try to recover this season is ridiculous. As you say, it's already lost. Nothing that happens in the second half could possibly be enough for him to earn an extension after the miserable job he's done in the first half. He's a lame duck and it's time to put him (and us) out of our misery.

by cubsbak on Jul 5, 2006 10:35 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Dusty's '04 '05 and '06 should be reason enough not to keep him, with our without Mark Prior and Kerry Wood.

"I respect the mind's power over the body, it's why I do what I do" - Dr. Jonathan Crane

by Faith plus 1 on Jul 5, 2006 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Corey argument...

is complete bunk. In his injury shortened year of 2003, Baker's first, his OPS was a career high .840 in 83 games. In 2004, it was .772 in 157 games. The 2005 season was a huge regression back to his and Corey was booed right out of town. Now with the Orioles, he's back to his mean (no pun intended here) stats : .764 in 75 games.
I'd argue that Corey is just not the guy we wanted him to be and not because anyone one manager "failed to bring him along."

They played hard. They did their best. Move on. Their whole life isn't out in that field. It's their job. It's not an obsession.

by Jeff Pico on Jul 5, 2006 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The evidence

shows that Corey got worse and worse under Baker. And he's made a dramatic improvement since leaving the Cubs. Even Jim Hendry has acknowledged that it looks like the Cubs failed Patterson.

It's clear to anyone who watched the Cubs over the last 5 years that Patterson wasn't handled properly. I'm not sure he'll ever be a superstar, but it's obvious Baker wasn't helping him reach his potential.

by cubsbak on Jul 5, 2006 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not sure...

what evidence you are referring too?
Corey's stats for the last 5 years:

Under Baylor:
2001 59 G .602 OPS
2002 153 G .676 OPS

Under Baker:
2003 83 G .840 OPS Career High
2004 157 G .772 OPS Career High > 100 GP
2005 126 G .602 OPS

Under Perlozzo:
2006 75 G .764 OPS

Career OPS: .715
Shawon Dunston Career OPS: .712

I think Corey is Shawon part II...highly touted, not much substance. His "dramatic" improvement this year is less than the improvement under his switch from Baylor to Baker and is only on par with his other good seasons. If the Cubs failed Patterson, it is only in marketing him as a 5-tool savior and rushing him to the big leagues. One terrible year under Baker certainly did not "ruin" him. I just think he was never going to be the superstar player he was marked to be, regardless of how he was brought into the big leagues.

They played hard. They did their best. Move on. Their whole life isn't out in that field. It's their job. It's not an obsession.

by Jeff Pico on Jul 5, 2006 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You said....

"If the Cubs failed Patterson, it is only in marketing him as a 5-tool savior and rushing him to the big leagues."

And that, my friend, is exactly HOW you fail someone. Create unreal expectations and then force him in to a situation where he won't be able to fulfill those same expectations.

by pageian on Jul 5, 2006 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yup.

And I read this a couple days ago that argues that Corey hasn't improved: http://www.desipio.com/?p=1181

Cubbie Blue will always sPaRkLe in my eyes, but please stop losing. PLEASE!

by sparkles721 on Jul 5, 2006 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You just provided the evidence I was talking about

Corey got worse and worse under Baker:

Under Baker:
2003 83 G .840 OPS
2004 157 G .772 OPS
2005 126 G .602 OPS

Corey improved dramatically after leaving Baker:

Under Baker:
2005 126 G .602 OPS
Under Perlozzo:
2006 75 G .764 OPS

You just proved my point. Thank you.

by cubsbak on Jul 5, 2006 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ugh...

How about we call it even since Corey improved dramatically under both Baker and Perlozzo:

Under Baker:
.676 to .840

Under Perlozzo:
.602 to .764

Well use Corey's next manager as the tie breaker.

They played hard. They did their best. Move on. Their whole life isn't out in that field. It's their job. It's not an obsession.

by Jeff Pico on Jul 5, 2006 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can dream, can't I?

well, I definitely can dream. Here's the dream:

Dusty fired next Monday morning. Cubs promote Larry Rothschild as interim manager, with the clear statement that he will be looked at for 2007, but not the leading candidate.
Cubs trade Ramirez and Jones to the Yankees for ARod (remaining $ out of the Cubs 4 yrs at @64M - Texas on the hook for $40M more) and a body (miguel cairo?).
Cubs trade Pierre to the White Sox for a photo of their WS trophy, a chance to sit down with Ozzie and a prospect of some sort (Josh Fields?)
Cubs trade Todd Walker to Boston for a prospect of some sort (Dustin Pedroia?)
Bring up Felix Pie. Why not?

Cubs finish out the season with a lineup of Pagan-Pie-Murton, Cairo-Arod-Cedeno-Lee-Barrett, going 38-36 in the second half under Rothschild to finish a disappointing 70-92.

off season moves:

Announce the hiring of Chip Hale as manager (current manager of the Tucson Sidewinders)
Sign Carlos Lee 4 yrs @ $44M
Sign Torii Hunter 3 yrs @ $36M
Sign Soriano 4 yrs @$55M
Sign Zito 3 yrs @$36 M

2007 Dream lineup:

Soriano 2B
Murton LF
DLee 1B
ARod SS
CLee RF
Hunter CF
Barrett C
Cedeno SS

SP Z
SP Zito
SP Prior
SP Marshall
SP: Hill/Guzman/Willliams/Stiff From Iowa/Marmol/New Guy
RP: Eyre
RP: Howry
RP: Novoa
RP: New Guy
RP: New Guy
LOOGY: Ohman
Closer: Dempster

Bench:
C: Blanco
IF: Cairo
OF: Pagan
OF: Pie
Guy Off the Bench to Hit .220 in PH Situations: New Guy

Well, it is a dream. A nice one, though.

"Don't worry, Joey. We'll go next year. They're in the World Series all the time" ---My grandfather to my sick father, October 10, 1945

by flyingdonut on Jul 5, 2006 10:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't understand

Why anyone truly wants Soriano to be their leadoff hitter. He's got power and usually has a low OBP. Sounds like a guy who should be hitting 6th, not 1st. If he's a teams best option to leadoff that team is flawed.

by pageian on Jul 5, 2006 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And I don't understand...

why so many pencil in Prior, rookies, and a 1 year guy for the dream rotation next year.

They played hard. They did their best. Move on. Their whole life isn't out in that field. It's their job. It's not an obsession.

by Jeff Pico on Jul 5, 2006 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who plays

third in your dream lineup?

by JFCubFan on Jul 5, 2006 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

who needs

a third baseman if you have two shortstops to cover the left side?

by tomas21 on Jul 5, 2006 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

D'OH!

ARod plays third, I suppose!

"Don't worry, Joey. We'll go next year. They're in the World Series all the time" ---My grandfather to my sick father, October 10, 1945

by flyingdonut on Jul 5, 2006 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

how do you...

know about Chip Hale? I live in Tucson right now and have been to one game this year. The Sidewinders are playing ridiculously good baseball right now. I wonder how mucho of that is because of him.

As a Cubs fan, The 2006 season will be remembered by me as....the first that I could buy Old Style cans with Cubs logos on them....

by coopergillan on Jul 5, 2006 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Chip Hale

If we're looking at Razor Shines, we ought to also look at Chip Hale. Same kind of player when in the MLB, gets great results out of his AAA team, etc. etc. etc.

"Don't worry, Joey. We'll go next year. They're in the World Series all the time" ---My grandfather to my sick father, October 10, 1945

by flyingdonut on Jul 5, 2006 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ronny Cedeno

Somebody needs to explain the infatuation about this guy. I see a player who is erractic and shorstop and marginally better than Neifi with the bat. Cedeno has ZERO plate discipline, is never going to be a run producer and has marginal speed or any other attractive qualities.

Cubs need to find a real shortstop during the offseason. In addition to 2 starting pitchers, a 2nd baseman, a catcher and a left fielder.

by Mike63 on Jul 5, 2006 10:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Zero Plate Discipline

That pretty much sums up every player who plays for Dusty? Is it possible that the players are doing just what Dusty is telling them to. Cedeno, in fact, was just called out by Dusty for displaying too much patience. I just don't see that you can make a fair judgment about young players skills with Dusty in charge -- particularly if they are young players that appear to be willing to take direction.

But hey, you are right about everything, so no doubt you are right about this.

by Frustrated Fan on Jul 5, 2006 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The bad plate discipline

shown by Cedeno and Murton is a COMPLETE result of Baker and Co.'s idiocy. They've said they hate walks and advocate hacking. It's major reason they need to be let go NOW.

by Matt Allison on Jul 5, 2006 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

They never said that...

"They've said they hate walks and advocate hacking"

Find this quote and I will buy you a dinner at Mortons.

Nice bastardization. Dusty's quote was that he doesn't think that a slow guy taking a walk helps the team much. He also like aggressive hitters who swing away. Players who get lots of hits take few walks. Go ahead and look it up. Many players with 3000+ hits averaged @60 walks a year.

by Chad on Jul 5, 2006 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's still a moron

what about a slow guy hitting a single? How is that any different? Who cares how you get runners on the bases?

I still do not understand this line of thinking.

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 5, 2006 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

A hit is always BETTER than a walk...

For even the slightest percent advantage that a hit could let to an error that will gain extra bases, a hit is always better than a walk. But that is just with the bases empty and ONLY a base hit.

When you walk you only get 1 base, when you hit you can get up to four and a run. The ONLY time that a walk DIRECTLY leads to a run is with the bases loaded and that is still only 1 run where as a base hit can net two.

Walks are good. Hits are better.

by Chad on Jul 5, 2006 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Furthermore...

Runs scored and walks are not highly correlated. For instance, Houston is 3rd in the NL in walks taken, but 11th in runs scored. St. Louis is 4th in runs scored and 13 in walks. Mets are 12th in walks, 2nd in runs. The biggest of many problem with the Cubs is they can't slug...Cedeno, Pierre, Walker, Murton, Perez all have poor slugging %.

They played hard. They did their best. Move on. Their whole life isn't out in that field. It's their job. It's not an obsession.

by Jeff Pico on Jul 5, 2006 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The thing is, it's always good

to have a bit of both (Walks and Slugging).

The Mets have an awsome lineup that makes up for their lack of patience. The 'Stros have patience, but no power. Whereas the Cubs have neither.

by VS on Jul 5, 2006 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

lies, damn lies, statistics

Dunno about the quote, but I think you can find aggressive hitters with widely varying walk rates, so your "statistic" is pretty irrelevant. What you need to do is a correlation study, but I'm too lazy to do that myself.

It's ridiculous to suggest that a slow guy taking a walk doesn't help the team. Sure, it's not as good as even a single for many reasons (other baserunners don't advance as well), but a baserunner is still a baserunner. You need them to score. The "clogging the basepaths" quote by Dusty shows that he doesn't understand that.

Ultimately, I would expect that guys who consistently go deep into counts have higher OBP (pretty intuitive - suggests either a good contact hitter with good strike zone judgment that would walk a fair amount), and probably even higher SLG than league average (less intuitive - suggests a good contact hitter who can foul off pitches until they get one they like). Obviously I have no statistics to back this up, but it ought to be fairly easy to test, given the proper resources (any of the SABR people want to try?).

by false cognate on Jul 5, 2006 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Batting Eye

Not exactly what you are looking for, but here is an article from baseball hq on how batting eye (patience) is an indicator for BA...

Batting Eye as a Leading Indicator

The raw ability to distinguish between balls and strikes -- strike zone judgment -- is one of the single best leading indicators for future batting performance. Batting eye (walks / strikeouts) can be used to project future potential in batting average and other skills gauges as well. Research findings:

1. There is a high correlation between a batter's eye ratio and his batting average.
Batting Average

Batting Eye 1998 1999 2000 2001

0.00 - 0.25 .251 .257 .253 .240

0.26 - 0.50 .261 .269 .268 .257

0.51 - 0.75 .271 .277 .273 .264

0.76 - 1.00 .283 .283 .289 .277

1.01 and over .292 .299 .306 .304

Any batter with an eye ratio over 1.00 has about a 1% chance of hitting under .250 over 500 at bats.
Of all .300 hitters, those with ratios of at least 1.00 have a 65% chance of repeating as .300 hitters. Those with ratios under 1.00 have less than a 50% chance of repeating.
Sub-.250 batters with eye ratios under 1.00 are not likely to mature into .300 hitters the following year. Only 12% of those with ratios between 0.50 and 0.99, and only 4% of those with ratios under 0.50 will hit .300 in year #2.
Batters with eye ratios under 0.50 are a high risk group. They may hit over .300 at some point in their careers (some batters can hack their way to anything), but pitchers eventually figure out that they do not have to give these free-swingers anything good to hit. At that point, it takes a large scale adjustment on the part of the batter to return to the .300 plateau.

In a study covering 1995-2000, there were only 37 batters that had hit .300 or better with an eye ratio of 0.50 or less over at least 300 AB in a single season. Of this group, 30% exhibited the unique ability to accomplish this feat on a consistent basis. For the other 70%, a .300-plus BA and sub-0.50 eye ratio was a short-term aberration.

by shootthemoon on Jul 5, 2006 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lets look at the hits list...

(Every player on my list will have 3000+ hits)

Player - BB/yr
Aaron - 69
Molitor - 66
Ripken - 61
Brett - 66
Yount - 55
Gwynn - 52
Winfield - 66
Carew - 67
Brock - 47
Clemente - 41

Granted these are cherry picked. But my point is that walking doesn't make you great and if you don't walk you can still be great. Walks are not bad and no one says they are, but people like Dusty and I would rather see slower, stronger players, take some cuts at marginal pitches, cause some will drop in there.

by Chad on Jul 6, 2006 1:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

PETE FREAKING ROSE

How could I forget the all time hit king Pete Rose who walked a whopping 55 times a year.

by Chad on Jul 6, 2006 1:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would

but then you went and did it for me.

Dusty and his merry crew of imbeciles need to go now.

by Matt Allison on Jul 5, 2006 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I read the same posts...

..as you and I don't see an infatuation. I see realistic expectations of a rookie. You seem to expect Cedeno to be a gold glove all-star. Hey phone call for you, it's reality, HE IS A ROOKIE. Give the guy time and quit being a hypocrite. Everyone keeps accusing Dusty of giving up on the youngsters and only playing the veterans. Are you Dusty???

vote santo for h.o.f.

by santo for prez on Jul 5, 2006 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also..

..I am not projecting Cedeno to be another Ozzie Smith or Cal Ripken (2 different styles of SS) but here is an interesting comparison:

YR AGE BA OBP SLG FP
Smith '78 23 .250 .311 .312 .970
'79 24 .211 .260 .262 .976

Cedeno '05 22 .300 .356 .375 .986
'06 23 .265 .291 .354 .963

Ripken '81 20 .128 .150 .128 .946
'82 21 .264 .317 .475 .972

I wonder what would have happened if you were the GM for either of these two guys???? Let the kid mature and lose the pressure that people like you are putting on him to be an instant all-star.

vote santo for h.o.f.

by santo for prez on Jul 5, 2006 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not quite old enough.

Sparky Anderson and Tommy Lasorda? Good lord. Only if Miller Huggins and Connie Mack turn down the job first.

by TR on Jul 5, 2006 11:09 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I think I thought

that Sparky Anderson was dead. . .

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 5, 2006 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sparky's

younger than McKeon. Older managers with NO desire to be the permanent manager are EXACTLY what an interim manager should be. An interim. Sparky, in fact, is only one year older than Frank Robinson. And he's several years younger than Don Zimmer. And he's only a few years older than Lasorda was when Lasorda was still a manager.

But again, I am not talking about anything other than someone to fill Dusty's shoes for the rest of the year and to evaluate young talent. And, frankly, Sparky or McKeon or Kelley or Lasorda are all much better at evaluating and playing young talent (does anyone remember how many ROY's played for the Dodgers under Lasorda? He was also a very successful manager in AAA. And he is still active. At this point he's being asked to essentially take a 3 month job with little or no pressure because of the lack of any expecations or pressure to win.

by Frustrated Fan on Jul 5, 2006 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

stop your dreaming, flyingdonut

The last thing the Cubs need are undisciplined strikeout machines like Hunter and Soriano.

by TR on Jul 5, 2006 11:17 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Soriano

I can put up with 125 Ks from Soriano if he hits 40 HR and has an OPS of .900. The only thing that matters is scoring runs - which Soriano would help with.

"Don't worry, Joey. We'll go next year. They're in the World Series all the time" ---My grandfather to my sick father, October 10, 1945

by flyingdonut on Jul 5, 2006 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

40 HR and OPS of .900

Okay. You can put up with those numbers. The quesition is "why do you think Soriano can generate those numbers"? He has never had 40+ HR in a season, his best is 39. His best OPS was .879. This year, in what appears to be his best year ever (to the point of being abberational) he has an OPS of .881. More importantly, in June he put up an OPS of .698 which suggests that, by the end of the year, he will have dropped down to his career number of .820 or so, and that he simply had a hot start. All players have hot and cold periods. When they have them at the start of a season the positive and the negative get overblown.

by Frustrated Fan on Jul 5, 2006 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Needs

The Cubs need a real left fielder, shortstop, 2nd baseman, catcher and 3/5's of a starting rotation long before they need a new manager. As stated previously, an interim manager will come in and this team will probably play like it on a sugar buzz for a few weeks. This will produce false hope and ridiculous exurbence among some Cub fans. By the time the team comes crashing back down to earth, Jim Hendry will have re-loaded with fresh excuses.

by Mike63 on Jul 5, 2006 11:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

some other needs

a new team president and general manager that actually commits to producing a quality baseball organzation from low a ball to aaa. this is the number one issue right there. focus on baseball purely, rather than trying to please masses with marquee pickups that don't fit a plan. it's been 98 years...stop the charade.

by sheffield25 on Jul 5, 2006 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Add Wade Miller to the list

of garbage on this roster. Topping out at 84 MPH on the ol' radar gun. Hendry flushed a million bucks down the crapper on this guy. Oh well, at least that pales in comparison to the investment he made in Neifi and Donuts Rusch.

by Mike63 on Jul 5, 2006 11:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

brenley!

bob brenley is the clear choice here isnt he? he has watched the team for the last year and a half. he knows the players. he has a world series ring. he is likeable yet has some emotion and fire. it seems like he would get along well with most of the people on the team. hire him and find len a new partner in the booth. brenley for coach 2007!

it takes two things to be a cubs fan...a sense of humor, and old style beer.

by markgraceismyhero on Jul 5, 2006 11:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Brenly

I really like Bob Brenly. But fact is his tenure in Arizona was a rocky one and he was labeled by many as a dipshit in terms of managerial strategy and decision-making. A lot of D-Back players eventually turned off to Brenly too.

I'm pretty sure just about anybody could have done well with a 1-2 punch of Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling in 2001.

by Mike63 on Jul 5, 2006 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah great

Replace Dusty with the guy who was his bench coach for four years in San Francisco.

I and others have mentioned what a horrible job Brenley did managing Arizona. Does anyone else remember that the D-Backs had 1 15-0 lead in Game 6 of the 2001 WS in the fourth inning and Brenly let Randy Johnson pitch three more innings (for a total of seven) with another game the next day?

Replacing Dusty with Bob Brenly would be like trading in your Ford Fusion for a Mercury Milan. It may look different, but underneath it's the same damn car.

by Josh77 on Jul 5, 2006 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

REAL MANAGER

Living in FLorida I get to see a real manager Joe Girardi... not only on the field but 10 minutes before the game they have a taped session with him.... an articulate, knowledgeable
manager not making excuses for his players but pointing out how they will improve... has an excellent understanding of the game.....
THEN .... I watch the interview with Dusty after the Cubs game..... I get the feeling he should be in bib overalls along side his pick up truck out in the middle of the field someplace trying to explain whey his crops are so putrid.... I
never could figure where this guy got his rep ..
When he was a Major Leauge Batting Coach he was
already a victim of the "Peter Principle"

by FlaCub on Jul 5, 2006 11:39 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Joe

is the man for the job. I wanted him here last year but Hendry couldn't see the handwriting on the wall. Girardi will be here at some point in time. I just hope it's sooner than later.

Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Jul 5, 2006 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yep

the pr alone that would come with peoria joe will be too good to pass up for the trib.

by mike bornemann on Jul 5, 2006 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jody Davis as new manager

Anyone else hear that rumor?

NLBallClub

by NLBallClub on Jul 5, 2006 11:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I LOVE that runor.

Sadly, though, I suspect that's all it is.

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 5, 2006 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

runor=rumor

duh

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 5, 2006 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why is this a good rumor?

Because Davis was a popular ex-Cub player?

He has been mostly out of baseball for almost 20 years; he is a first-year manager in Low-A ball.

Please explain to me how this qualifies him to manage a high-profile major league club that wants to WIN NOW.

by Al on Jul 5, 2006 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Same reason I want

Dan Hampton, Mike Singletary, and Matt Suey to come back and take over the Bears as a coaching trifecta: Because I like him.

I didn't say it made sense.

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 5, 2006 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

dammit

do not mention the other (curretly well run) chicago sports teams on cubs blogs, while wearing cubs shirts, or watching/listening to cubs games. Put the clothes in different closets even. whatever the cubs have may be contagious.

by mike bornemann on Jul 5, 2006 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hear it where?

Where did you hear this rumour?

by daubs on Jul 5, 2006 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tom Kelly

Hey Al,
I know you like Joey Cora or
Fredi Gonzalez for the managers
position. But what about Tom Kelly ?
That wouldn't be a bad choice.
Or would that be a MacPhail
retread ??

Cubspizza

by quarryfan on Jul 5, 2006 11:59 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Kelly...

... hasn't managed in five years. Why is this?

We do not know.

Again, this is grabbing hold of someone who has a "name". Last time the Cubs did that they signed Dusty Baker. And last time before that they signed Don Baylor.

Maybe it's time to go to someone younger, and lesser-known.

by Al on Jul 5, 2006 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I tend to agree, but

I would have though the same thing about Leyland, too. Heck, he even quit on his last team, but so far, so good in Detroit.

by davidalanu on Jul 6, 2006 7:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The season is lost

and a disaster to boot. Why fire Baker now?

Accountability.

Those of us with professional careers understand that our employers expect a minimum level of performance comensurate with our position and experience. It is not clear to me why Dusty or his coaching staff should be exempt from such a fundamental employment precept. Do your job, keep your job. Do your job well, get rewarded. But fail and fail spectacularly, now your butt is on the line.

With or without Baker, the season is over for this team. Why not start the rebuilding now, why wait? And yes, with an interim manager with a permanent assignment to follow in the offseason.

Mr. Hendry, fill out that pink slip now.

by JFCubFan on Jul 5, 2006 12:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

re: the season is lost

The only way something constructive can be salvaged from this travesty of a season is to sort out the prospects from the suspects under new leadership. Dusty is primarily concerned with salvaging what's left of his reputation in the hopes of landing a new job somewhere. He's got to go, and the all-star break is the perfect time.

Hire Speier as interim manager, make Pole the pitching coach, and fire all the rest of the coaching staff.

As for next year, it's time for a creative hire who doesn't bring the baggage that weighs down Pinella, Valentine, and (ugh) Jimy Williams. Gonzalez, Cora, and if we can buy out his contract, Girardi will be available during the off season.

by Clark Addison on Jul 5, 2006 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tom Kelly

Todd Walker would certainly be happy to see Kelly take over on an interim basis.

Actually, if Kelly wanted to take over on an interim basis, that wouldn't be a bad idea. Unless you're Todd Walker.

by Josh77 on Jul 5, 2006 1:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Todd Walker

Minnesota is but one spot...Colorado, Cincy, Boston are the others...where Todd Walker wore out his welcome. If criteria for next manager is somebody who Walker didn't already piss off with his lousy glovework and big mouth, then I'm afraid we might be down to Preston Gomez and Jim Essian as candidates.

by Mike63 on Jul 5, 2006 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey Al

Can we make it so that Mike63 can write a stock "Todd Walker is horrible with the glove and has a big mouth" post that shows up any time someone mentions his name? It seems like it would save him alot of work.....

by BadGuy on Jul 5, 2006 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey now

Now that is funny, funny stuff. I like you.

P.S. Todd Walker and Michael Barrett still majorly suck in the field.

by Mike63 on Jul 5, 2006 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

perhaps

but he's right that at least two managers (kelly and little) have had fairly public dislikes for him, and at least one of hendry/baker seems to have some issues with him.

by tomas21 on Jul 5, 2006 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Isn't my

criteria. Just saying that Tom Kelly and Todd Walker had a problem with each other back in Minnesota. It might be funny to put them back together for a month or two.

It's not like Walker is going to be back next season anyway.

But I would be opposed to Kelly being anything other than a stopgap measure.

by Josh77 on Jul 5, 2006 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kimm

was interim manager and you state that his term was a horrible experience. However, he did have a better record than Baylor that year .423 vs .410. It also was the prelude to 2003 which almost got us into the World Series.

So, if you're asking if I'd prefer that to having Dusty bungle the rest of this season, the answer is YES.

Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Jul 5, 2006 1:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

The last half of 2002...

... was no prelude to 2003.

The prelude to 2003 was acquiring Damian Miller, and trading for Eric Karros and Mark Grudzielanek in the off-season.

What Kimm did had ZERO impact on the 2003 team, or any other team, INCLUDING the 2002 team.

And big whoop on the records. Baylor was 34-49. Kimm was 33-45. Difference: 2 1/2 games. So what?

by Al on Jul 5, 2006 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

2007

Only this go around the Cubs will be in the market for 3/5's of a starting rotation to go along with the need for a new catcher, new middle infielder and two outfielders. In baseball, pitching is king. The dearth of starting pitching will continue to be this teams undoing for awhile, unless of course Sean Marshall, Carlos Marmol and a couple of their contemporaries in the minors all of a sudden burst through in a big way. The odds of that happening are long. So too are the odds of the Cubs trading for or signing a couple front line starters.

by Mike63 on Jul 5, 2006 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're the one

who has cried wolf about Kimm's record and the tragedy of hiring an interim like him. Well, he DID post a better record than Baylor. And he WAS the manager prior to our march towards the World Series. So it's not a given that the hiring of an interim manager will lead to the apocolyse.

Contrary to some assertions that Baker would be guaranteed an extension, he's toast. The time to replace him is long overdue and if we need someone to act as caretaker the rest of the season until we can get a quality manager, let's do it.

Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Jul 5, 2006 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Again, I point out...

... that a "better record" is a red herring. Two and a half games better? So freakin' what?

Plus, I remember hearing toward the end of that season that the players had quit on Kimm, who was at least for a time being considered for the fulltime job.

Do you want that too?

by Al on Jul 5, 2006 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here in California

the condemned prisoner has a choice - death by lethal injection or the gas chamber.

Here, the choice is playing 100 loss ball for Baker or playing 100 loss ball for someone else.

Either way, your're dead at the end.

by JFCubFan on Jul 5, 2006 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What I want

is the best possible out of a bad situation. If that means an interim manager so that Baker isn't around to destroy what he hasn't already decimated, then I'm all for it.

You keep referring to the Kimm era as a tragedy. But the record shows that things didn't get worse than they were. And it points out that we won't neccessarily be selling out 2007 with an interim.

Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Jul 5, 2006 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I find this fascinating

tharr, you know who I am, right? At least you remember Ruby Tuesday's in Jackson, MS?

I'm sorry we didn't get to see a game together in the several months I spent living a couple hours west of Houston.

Anyway, if I get time tonight, I'm going to go back to baseball reference and look at the playing time of players in the Kimm season, to see if I can recall what impact the second half of that season had on the team's future decision-making. You and Al are debating about something for which there is some evidence, if any of us can find or remember it.

by zambranofan on Jul 5, 2006 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Congrats on

the Illinois hookup. Too bad Tulane was decimated.

But you are right about looking at the facts. My assertion has always been that an interim isn't neccessaily a bad thing when the present situation is horrible. Kimm wasn't quality but he was better than Baylor. And whoever is brought in to replace Baker will be an improvement. It makes no difference to me that Baker had some good seasons in SF. Right now his warts are showing and it is a prudent decision to replace him sooner than later.

As a business prof, can you imagine what would happen to a manager who seems to have lost all sense of reality.

Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Jul 5, 2006 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Indeed

Re: the manager with no sense of reality, I have seen it happen. In fact, the guy fired me!

I'm going to post a diary with my summary of players from 2002 under Kimm.

by zambranofan on Jul 5, 2006 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What's the point of an interim?

I agree having someone new around for the second half won't do much good if they're gone at the end of the season, but at the same time, what good does it do to keep Baker around if he'll be gone at the end of the year?

At least the interim is more likely to give some of the young guys (Guzman) a chance and leave Rusch, Novoa, Neifi et al on the bench where they belong.

Let Dusty and Neifi ride off into the sunset together and do whatever it is they do....

by BringBackRyno on Jul 5, 2006 1:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

asdjkl

Dusty: "I wish I knew how to quit you!"

Neifi: <sob!>

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 5, 2006 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

LOL.....

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jul 5, 2006 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good One Julie!

There must be some pictures of something that Neifi has on Dusty!

by Ihatethecards on Jul 5, 2006 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

a girl

i know said she's slept with neifi
just to say

by china423 on Jul 5, 2006 3:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

That girl's name

isn't "Dustina Baker," is it?

by jcub on Jul 5, 2006 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Managerial candidates

I hope Mike Maddux gets interviewed. As stated previously, I really like him. He's a disciple of the Bobby Cox / Ned Yost school of management, understands pitchers and is said to be well respected and liked by players and coaches alike. Can't help but like his bloodlines too.

Other names?

Lou Pinella - a big fat no. Lou pulled a Mike Ditka while Tampa Bay and basically phoned it in during his three years down there. He did zilch to help the young talent on that team develop. Besides, Sweet Lou is waiting for Joe Torre to get the boot or step down so King George hires him all over again.

Bob Brenly - I like Bob, but... Brenly's tenure in Arizona ended in a player mutiny. Also, his in-game strategy was routinely blasted. I'm fairly certain anybody would have done well managing a team with Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling as your 1-2 punch in 2001.

Freddy Gonzalez - must confess I don't know him (just like 99% of you).

Tom Kelly - one of the dullest and uninteresting characters ever to grace a major league dugout, but his teams did win two World Series titles. I'm pretty sure Kelly is 137 years old by now.

Jack McKeon - older than dirt.

Joey Cora - I don't know much about Cora, but I doubt seriously Hendry would ever have the balls to hire a new manager from the team across town. Too much weird risk I'm guessing.

Jimy Williams - awful in his previous stints as manager, so naturally his name should rise to the top of candidates.

Steve Stone - 61 years old and never managed a lick. Plus I'm reasonably certain he isn't well liked within the baseball fraternity of players, coaches, etc.

Leo Durocher - Dead.

Preston Gomez - Presumed dead or running a tiki bar somewhere down in Latin America. Still learning proper pronounciation of the last name of Mike Krukow.

Jim Essian - still enrolled in a repetitive clapping rehabilitation program.

Herman Franks - Dead (I think).

Jody Davis - big hillbilly redneck that hails from southern Georgia. Probably better suited to be future manager of the Atlanta Braves or work the pit crew for Dale Earnhardt Jr.

Jerry Manuel - if first you don't succeed in hiring an African American manager, try try try again.

Larry Rothschild - Hendry loves the guy. After all he IS the one who diagnosed this past spring that Prior and Wood have had problem mechanics for over three years.

by Mike63 on Jul 5, 2006 4:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Actually....

... Herman Franks is still alive; he's 92 years old and made a fortune by savvy investing after he left baseball. IIRC he lives in the Salt Lake City area.

by Al on Jul 5, 2006 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Quick response

As I've said a million times but no one but Al is listening, Brenly is a protege of Baker. That's another argument against him.

Tom Kelly is only 55 years old. I think there are some health issues there though.

Jack McKeon is older than dirt, if your dirt is 75 years old. I think that qualifies.

Can I throw out two more names that no one ever seems to mention? One is Larry Dierker, who did a good job in Houston and only got fired because of the Astros failures in the playoffs.

There are some health problems there as well as a long time association with the Astros (they retired his number) that might discourage him from taking the job.

The other is Ron Roenicke, who won't be available until the season is over.

by Josh77 on Jul 5, 2006 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's still pitching but...

Would anyone else like to see Greg Maddux managing the Cubs? I would.

by Kornchex on Jul 5, 2006 5:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Why?

Great players rarely make great managers/coaches.

by Chad on Jul 5, 2006 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

But smart players do make great managers

It is probably premature for Maddux to manage or coach (could probably season a couple of years on Bobby Cox's, Joe Torre's or LaRussa's bench to learn some tricks and remove himself from player mode), but I think his intelligence would serve him well as a manager. They don't call him the professor for nothin'.

by jcub on Jul 5, 2006 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Because....

Because of his intelligence and calm nature for one. jcub is right though. He'd need a few years as a coach first I'm sure.

by Kornchex on Jul 5, 2006 7:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I doubt it

Maddux probably knows more about baseball than most of the guys managing now, and certainly more than Baker. What the heck, it's been awhile since there's been a play/manager in MLB.

by davidalanu on Jul 6, 2006 7:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Managers Con't

Reading these posts...... WoW.... Greg Maddux manager ? The low key guy who wants to be everybodys buddy ?.... and Jack Mckeon is too old. The Marlins didn't think so when they made the wise choice in 03 and he still would be manager if they had not backed up the truck... anyway he has a sweet deal with the Marlins right now as a consultant.

by FlaCub on Jul 6, 2006 7:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs