The Cubs Blog Army Makes The MSM!

by Al Yellon on Jul 7, 2006 9:22 AM CDT in Chicago Cubs News

As first noted in this diary, quite a few members of the CBA were contacted by Chicago Tribune reporter David Haugh and quoted at some length in this morning's Tribune -- both in that chicagosports.com link and in the "dead tree edition", as one diary commenter termed it.

It's nice to know that they notice us. And that they thought enough of us to actually put us in the newspaper, to bring our views to a wider audience. You'll see in the article that positions vary from "anger, frustration and vitriol", to a northsidebaseball.com commenter who said:

Keep Dusty. ... That's right, I said it. I don't see a viable alternative. Uncle Lou [Piniella], he will only last three years here at most. [Bob] Brenly, I doubt they will go down that road. Dave McKay or Dave Duncan from the Cardinals, Jerry Manuel from the Mets, Don Cooper from the White Sox, Larry Bowa or Tony Pena from the Yanks. Bobby Valentine from Japan ... None of those would be markedly better than Baker. This team, as assembled, is [garbage]."

Which pretty much is in line with what I've been saying. The anti-Baker sentiment is neatly summed up by Jeff at drstrangecub.blogspot.com, who said:

"It is Jim Hendry's fault that this team was assembled like a Jenga tower. A man that needs to sleep on whether or not Dusty Baker and his brain trust need to get the heave-ho is a man I have zero faith in to resolve this 'situation' correctly."

Mine, which was pulled from yesterday's game post, was mostly about why Lou Piniella or another big name would be the wrong choice for a replacement, and why I think Hendry, IF he decides to replace Baker, would go for a "young gun", someone who's been a manager-in-waiting; this would be a whole new direction for this ballclub. The last manager hired by this franchise with ZERO previous managerial experience was Lee Elia -- and the reason for that hiring was that he was Dallas Green's handpicked guy from Philadelphia.

I still believe this to be true. Dave van Dyck says in the Tribune, without reason or attribution:

The expected dispatching of manager Dusty Baker has been delayed, most likely until sometime in August, although there is no guarantee it won't be done before sunup of the second half of the season if the Cubs continue to play as they did in Thursday's 2-0 loss to the Brewers.

It's almost as if the writers have a pool going or something. "Sometime in August"? Where did this come from? How did August become a magical date? Anyway, IF Baker is dispatched, whether now, in August, or in October, I believe Hendry will choose from a group of younger men, coaches now, who are part of the "next generation" of managers epitomized by Ozzie Guillen, Eric Wedge and Joe Girardi (not those specific men, but men who are now in similar positions to the ones the three above held before they got their manager's jobs).

About the 2-0 loss to the Brewers last night, not much can be said; the Cubs simply cannot hit Chris Capuano, who is 3-0 this year against them without allowing a run. This diary suggests that it's Dusty Baker's fault that Aramis Ramirez got thrown out trying to stretch that double into a triple; Ramirez himself admitted he wasn't hustling around first base. The implication is that Baker didn't ream Ramirez out for this.

How does any one of us know this? This could be called "Piniella Syndrome". If a TV camera had caught Baker yelling at Ramirez in the dugout; well, then, he's a fiery manager who is a good leader. How does any of us know that he didn't ream him out in private? As I have repeatedly said: if you screwed up at work, would you rather have your manager admonish you privately -- or in front of your co-workers and a few random people off the street?

I think the answer to that is obvious. What the Ramirez incident proves to me, is that Ramirez has lazy tendencies. This isn't going to be solved by changing managers -- Ramirez is no rookie; he's a veteran with a big-dollar contract. That itself should be motivation enough to hustle. Brian, the diary writer, is correct when he says you don't make the first out of the inning at third base, and having Ramirez on second with nobody out might have gotten the Brewers' bullpen busy. Blaming Baker for this? I swear, if Dusty Baker announced today he had a cure for all cancers, the Baker-bashers here would find some way to criticize him for it.

The game wasn't lost because of that anyway; it was lost because Chris Capuano outpitched Greg Maddux (who threw quite well, I thought). These things happen in most baseball seasons, and if the ballclub's doing well, you shrug your shoulders and say, "We'll get 'em tomorrow". But in a season like this one, each and every loss is dissected to the nth degree.

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Comments

A new guy?

Why do you think Hendry would go with someone new? He had an opportunity to do that three years ago and he chose Baker.

I think Hendry is unlikely to take a chance here, and I expect him to go with a retread, someone like Jimy Williams who has a lot of experience and a winning record. Of course, Williams is just as bad as Baker when it comes to field decisions, but obviously that plays no role in Hendry's decision-making. At least Williams (or most any manager) is likely to field a team that shows up to play baseball every day, unlike the Cubs of the last couple of years.

by dvdmgsr on Jul 7, 2006 9:31 AM CDT reply actions

It won't be Williams...

... count on that.

You're right in that he's a retread, and I've tried to make the point that another retread would be absolutely wrong. IF the Cubs start over, it HAS to be in a different direction.

by Al Yellon on Jul 7, 2006 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions

I agree...

...a retread would be wrong. But Hendry is going to do what most GMs do almost all of the time: hire a known quantity, unless he goes with a cardboard cutout, another Essian or Kimm.

by dvdmgsr on Jul 7, 2006 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions

"Most" GM's?

Many GM's today are going the other way. I'd think that Hendry would have to at least SEE what's happening elsewhere, realize that TWO "big name" hires have both failed, and try something else.

by Al Yellon on Jul 7, 2006 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions

August or July 12th or July 30th for that matter..

Goes back to what I was told from inside the Tribune/WGN family whether or when a decision is made and whether Hendry is on his own or not.

The CBA is right in many respects, this team is a house of cards, put together by Hendry but he is 'the decider', he can go it alone or be part of the 'bigger team'. Later means they have 'decided' on a long-term replacement has been secured....interim is just that...and will be made by Hendry himself....

he is in No man's land right now since if the Cubs continue to slide deep into the celler he will be blamed not having the 'bat & balls' to retrospectively make a courageous decision, (something corporate people don't make in group-think processes), but if the Cubs tread water 'so-to-speak' and they wait for a long-term Hendry is possibly in 'safe-harbour'.

Here is the other issue. Tribune Co. has done a masterful job hyping the abilities and decisions of Hendry (previously) and the Cubs once highly thought of farm system.

So is it Baker & Co who wasted that talent base or was it that the decisions of what talent there was in reality was hype and hope.

Reality is a strange bird, ugly but altogether absolute...reality is winning. So if Hendry hires an interim and the Cubs win, than it was Baker & Co., if he waits and hires a long-term and they win it is Baker & Co again, but if they continue to lose it is Hendry and the talent base.

Tough call.

Bill Veeck planted Ivy during 'The Depression', and over time the Ivy Walls has become the most distinct symbol of Wrigley Field.

by Ivy Walls on Jul 7, 2006 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions

Big names....

are not the issue. Managerial style is. Both Baylor and Hendry were old school guys.

I think you may be better off differentiating the two.

he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Jul 7, 2006 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions

Baylor is the furthest...

...thing from an "old school guy". It's obvious Baker is of the new school of thought. Spare the rod ,spoil the child. Lou would have had Aramis strung up by his toes last night.

cubsfan4life

by cubfan4life on Jul 7, 2006 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions

I don't know where they're going...

...but I can see where they've gone. If you look at the list of managers hired in the last 2-3 years, you see that most of them were retreads: Garner, Melvin, Little, Hargrove, Manuel, Tracy, Francona, Narron, Bell, Leyland, as opposed to Maddon, Girardi, Randolph and Perlozzo.

Randolph is doing well, and Girardi's team has performed well when you consider its ridiculous payroll expenditure, but I don't think there's a terrific track record here that will wow Hendry out of his cautious tendencies.

You may remember that I advocated going with a no-name instead of hiring Baker, and I said that they had apparently not learned their lesson after hiring Baylor when they hired Baker. Not only do you get someone who is going to want to do things one very specific way and has the clout to undermine you, you have to make a long-term commitment to someone like that. Anyway, they didn't learn the lesson the first time, and I don't see why this situation should be any different.

by dvdmgsr on Jul 7, 2006 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions

Gonzalez

Hey Al,
Will have to agree with you
after some thought.
Big name manager is not the
answer this time.
Fredi Gonzalez is ready to
manage and he comes from a true
winning organization. I'm sure
he would have Bobby Cox's full
blessing and support.
We shall see......

Cubspizza

by quarryfan on Jul 7, 2006 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions

Reaming out Ramirez

The reason I assume Baker didn't significantly criticize Ramirez is that the Cubs do stuff like this all the time, over and over. The team exudes an air of sloppiness and has for some time. If he got on Ramirez for that yesterday, then he must've done the same thing the day before, and the day before that, and every day this season. I do not have the impression that this is the case.

by dvdmgsr on Jul 7, 2006 9:33 AM CDT reply actions

exatcly

either baker calls guys out or he doesn't. if he does then they are obvioulsy not responding to it, meaning they don't respect him and he needs to go or the players are just laxy and they need to go.

by mike bornemann @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 7, 2006 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions

I believe..

the players are just lazy. Ramirez is a veteran guy who almost alwas watches the ball for a second or 2 on contact. I don't think any amount of yelling or screaming at him is going to change much the way he plays. Call it a lack of respect if you want, but this sort of thing has become more and more prevelent since the dawn of free agency. The players don't really have to hustle, they are already making their millions.

by wicubfan on Jul 7, 2006 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions

Well

Baker has been known to refer to these thing as rookie mistakes. But of course Ramirez is no rookie so he is absoved of that type comment. If Baker would ever bench someone for that type attitude I'd believe that he might be somewhat forgiven. However, to see the same guys make the same mistakes and play the very next day is inexcusable.

Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Jul 7, 2006 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions

I sent this one to Al

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=2511798

He wrote Cubs Nation and I think has a pretty fair assessment of the Cubs. I think that Dusty is a pretty bad field manager and I also think that it would have helped him if two of his coaches were the "enforcer" types of coaches that would have pulled Ramirez down the hallway and grabbed his ear until he heard them.

That said, I'd rather see Perez, Rusch, Novoa, and Pierre just go away than Dusty. That would be my personal order of firing and DFA. Novoa might have value, but I'd demote him to AAA or trade him first. The rest of them can just go. With Pierre hitting better, it'd be nice to get something for him near the trade deadline.

I think the reality is that there will be no big trades for the Cubs until the last week before the deadline. Dusty will not get fired and we are stuck with this regime through the end of the season.

by Woodstock on Jul 7, 2006 9:39 AM CDT reply actions

I agree with you...

... on all of this, except for the trade notion. Hendry will make deals this month -- count on it. And if one comes up next week, he'll make it.

Baker is at fault, sure, in part. Everyone connected with this disaster of a season is. But to totally blame him is wrong.

As was said in that link:

"This year," said a Cubs official, "God couldn't manage this team."

Absolutely right.

by Al Yellon on Jul 7, 2006 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions

Trades

It's not that he's not looking for trades. It's that Hendry has an idea of the value of his players (correct or incorrect) and won't go below a certain value. As the deadline gets closer other teams will get more desperate and be more likely to give him things they wish they hadn't. Or, at least that will be how he sees it. Since this is a lost season for the playoffs, what difference does 2 weeks make? Hurrying to trade won't change the lack of World Series.

That's not a defense of Hendry, more just trying to figure out why he waits.

by Woodstock on Jul 7, 2006 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions

That is...

... one of the biggest criticisms I have of Hendry, that he overvalues his players. Not only the kids, but at the ML level as well.

At a certain point you have to admit your mistakes and try to cut your losses. The rest of this month will show us whether he can do that or not.

by Al Yellon on Jul 7, 2006 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions

Hendry's job ahead

Big Jim has some work to do. I'm betting that Dusty stays until the end of the year. He had a meeting yesterday with him and maybe some coaches get the boot but Dusty will stay. Hendry on the other hand will be working the phones and building the team for next year. There are some good players to be had. Hendry has shown good ability to make some great deals. He does have a nice core of players when healthy. I don't see any reason why Hendry doesn't breakout the knife and start cutting the dead wood off this team. Hendry will begin bringing in some very good players that will add to the core and make the Cubs a sucessful winning team again.

BTW Neifi is a good BENCH player. Nothing more or less.

Cleverly Disguised as a Responsible Adult

by Scott G F on Jul 7, 2006 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions

much work to do throughout...some points

A) Who is a Dusty guy that is not part of the core team.-----Remember the 'Coach Riley Factor' 80% of the performance is actually done by 20% of the team---however the team can be destroyed or its collective effort by not managing properly those who compose 80% of the team.

You keep the core, or you re-make the core and then find those who support the core and provide the right role playing for a winning effort.

B) those who were Dusty's guys will be poison on a future team anyway....

My book is D-Lee & A-Ram are core players on the field, but it is better to have core players up the middle (catcher, SS, 2B, CF)

Pitchers are rarely core players because they play so in often, (exceptions Clemens, or a 3-some or 4-some who are starters) relievers by definition are specialists or role players.

One could build around D-Lee but one needs to bring in a SS or CF or catcher who is also a core player. (A-Rod)

The team needs one more....

Bill Veeck planted Ivy during 'The Depression', and over time the Ivy Walls has become the most distinct symbol of Wrigley Field.

by Ivy Walls on Jul 7, 2006 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions

And on the other side

Hendry also undervalues some of his prospects. Dontrelle was a throw-in, and Nolasco-Pinto-Mitre for Pierre was absolutely horrible. Nolasco was tearing apart AA with a record somewhere around 10-1 with an ERA under 2, and STILL ended up being packaged with our best relief prospect and a guy who wasn't a world beater, but still could be used as a 5th starter for a guy whose numbers have been in decline over the past 3 years. And nothing else! No A-ball prospects or PTBNLs.

Also, he seems very insistent on doing "reclamation projects". If they've had TJ surgery, he'll get them a contract before the ink has dried on it. I highly doubt that Wade Miller will be back to his old self by the end of the season.

I was saying Boo-urns.

by jrm78 on Jul 7, 2006 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions

Reclaims

Wade Miller had a torn labrum. He is a guy who may never pitch in the majors. I am not sure why it was worth a million just to see if he could. I know he would be a 10 million guy if healthy, but the percentage of players that come back is just so low.

Of course, we just shelled out about 5-6 million in signing bonuses for guys that may never make it out of AA, so maybe it is worth it.

Williamson and Dempster have worked out REALLY well for the Cubs as projects. I see the Wade Miller one as a possible miss, but if he does just need the winter to get healthy (as Kerry Wood might) then if he signs a cheap, incentives deal it might work out great for the Cubs.

by Woodstock on Jul 7, 2006 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions

So why are they unmanageable?

Perhaps they are unmanageable because of the bad habits they've developed the last couple of years under Baker.

I completely agree that it's a mistake to look at the Cubs' poor performance and turn it solely into a referendum on Baker. The problems are much more deep than that, and changing managers is unlikely to accomplish much. However, I consider Baker clearly to be one of the problems, and I can't stand him anymore. I consider him one of the major factors responsible for my active dislike for this team.

by dvdmgsr on Jul 7, 2006 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions

Bad habits

are hard to change. A new coach has his work cut out for him.

I can't wait for Iowa football!!

by sue369 on Jul 7, 2006 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions

Maybe but....

All we needed to do up to this point is be .500. Not Good, Not Great, but just right around average. I think God could have done that.

by BadGuy on Jul 7, 2006 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions

This is beyond belief

I will agree that there is a whole room full of blame to go around starting with Hendry.
Now, I believe Dusty should be fired.

The Cubs knew Wood was not healthy, and Prior, well it depends who to believe whether bad information on his health was correct or incorrect, that is up for debate. Hendry takes the hit on Williams and Rusch, however Rusch you must admit pitched well at times last year. And most of Cub fans would say a .500 record for those two starters until Wood and Prior got healthy was possible. Everybody was on the Pierre move, including myself. Lee goes down and this team goes 19-40. Starting rookie pitchers yes, Walker at first yes. However do you think maybe just maybe this team could of gone 25-34, and stayed in the race, got to 3 or 4 games UNDER .500 and only would of been maybe at this point6 or 7 games out of the wildcard. That my friends is not asking alot, and this is where Dusty has failed, and failed badly. Marlins are starting Rookie pitchers, they have a better record, Tampa Bay with one starter, Kazmir, has a better record in a much tougher league and division.
Dusty needs to be held accountable, He constantly complains about " Well never had the full team together to make a run" You know Dusty this is Sports people get hurt and you move on.He is not a standup manager, I know that is uncommon in baseball, but do you think maybe just once he would let some individual like Ramirez, (who coasted to first, then gets thrown out at 3rd last night with NO ONE out) how he feels openly, in the press or in the Dugout, Yes Al in the dugout. It is called fire in the eyes. I don't want to see this reaction everygame, but you know, when a team is playing as bad as they have been for the last 3 months, once every 3 months losing your cool is, I believe acceptable. No other team has coasted like this one, that is this bad.
I want a shakeup, and if Hendry goes good. But Dusty and the staff needs to go, Put Spier in for the rest of year, Von Joshua hitting instructer, and as far as I am concerned Al you coach 3rd base and I will coach 1st.
Enough already, change is needed.

"Just not getting any breaks" Johnnie Baker

by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Jul 7, 2006 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions

It was Aramis' fault..

..for not legging out a triple..the blame on that play should also fall on Spiers...why don't he hold him up at second?

Now this brings me to my point. I really do not think that Dusty is doing anything "behind closed doors". If he was, these guys wouldn't keep blowing him off (which is what they would be doing IF he was handling this behind closed doors).

If these guys are blowing him off over and over again...then once again he is not doing his job. A manager (supervisor) should under no way tolerate this. The players should be listening to the manager and the coaches (i.e base coaches). If they aren't listening then obvious they have no consequenses, meaning that the manager is not doing his job.

Everyone seems to be blaming the 2-0 loss on ARam last night, and it was partly his fault.

Here is another example IMO of Baker not doing his job in yet another loss....First of all Neifi was batting second (like that is something new). Then Pierre gets on base twice during the game with less than two outs....Neifi steps up to the plate and hacks away. Now I see two possible scenarios here

Baker told Neifi to sacrifice and Neifi didn't listen (Bakers fault for having no respect from the players)
Baker didn't tell Neifi to bunt because he is incompetent and didn't realize the importance of putting a runner in scoring position with DLee coming to the plate.

Either way IMO the blame lies on Dusty. This isn't the first time this season either.

The bottom line IMO is that Baker doesn't do anything behind closed doors. The players have lost all respect for him for this and that the only way for them to play to their potential is to give them a new manager so they can start with a clean slate.

IMO

vote santo for h.o.f.

by santo for prez on Jul 7, 2006 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions

don't should have been...

..doesn't

vote santo for h.o.f.

by santo for prez on Jul 7, 2006 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions

That's BS

Perhaps they still wouldn't be contending would have performed much better than they have. How about some accountability?

Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Jul 7, 2006 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions

What language was that..

...can you rephrase that??

vote santo for h.o.f.

by santo for prez on Jul 7, 2006 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions

Ask and you shall receive

Perhaps they still wouldn't be contending with another manager. However, they certainly would have performed better than they have been.

Mea culpa.

Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Jul 7, 2006 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions

Novoa Hate

Why all this Novoa hate? He's not the best pitcher in the Bullpen, but he's also effective when properly used. The problem that he has had is that Dusty leaves him in too long in order to justify his bizzare double switches.

by Frustrated Fan on Jul 7, 2006 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions

Novoa?

Every time he comes into the game I wonder how many walks he will have and how many fat, straight fastballs he will leave over the middle. He just seems to lack something that makes a reliever.

Perhaps he just needs time. This year would be a fine chance to see that, except that we see Eyre, Howry and Dempster. Ohman once in awhile, Williamson now that he's back.

by Woodstock on Jul 7, 2006 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions

Perception versus reality

Novoa has walked a total of ONE batter in his last 12 appearances. And he has given up 1 HR in his last sixteen appearances (if you leave out the Tiger game where he gave up 4 and pretty much everyone was hitting everything). In other words, he has been pretty good for more than a month. But the "perception" is that of the Novoa early in the season.

by Frustrated Fan on Jul 7, 2006 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions

I don't see it that way

I see a guy who is either right on or way off. About every 3rd to 4th game, he just comes in and gives it up. He's got to learn to pitch a bit better. I will concede that he's had a good run while I've been away from the Cubs recently. He's had some very good outings. If they continue, I will be glad to see him. But, for another week or two I will still cringe every time he's brought into the game.

by Woodstock on Jul 7, 2006 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions

manager

i still feel that an interim is exaclty what we need for the rest of the year- i posted this the other day but i think it got buried

is why i think an interim is a good idea

i dont want our future manager close to this group of players, let him start with a fresh season and some distance from this disaster of a season

further make it clear that the interim's job is to play every young player with any shot of being a help to this club, we can find out who has something or who doesnt, call em all up

this wont happen with Dusty who feels he has an obligation to play the veterans, but neifi, glendon, nevin anyone without a future on this team needs to be dfa'd or benched and thats not going to happen with dusty, i dont feel that this team cannot contend in 07 with the right moves but until then we MUST play all our young guys to see what our in house options are for the future and history clearly shows that Baker is not that man for that job.

then go hire our new man this offseason

"a sort of soft tyranny of positivity" -GM

by ksucubbie on Jul 7, 2006 9:39 AM CDT reply actions

General Manager

Then Big Jim needs to take Dusty's favorites away from him if he wants players developed. Or, just flat out tell him to play the rookies or get fired. That's what your boss does. The GM should be looking to the future and living in the present.

Dusty's job is to win ballgames. If he thinks the Neifi! and the Nevin! are going to be the ones that win the game for him then he will play them.

Again, I certainly don't think Nevin! and Neifi! are going to win anything for you, now or in the future.

by Woodstock on Jul 7, 2006 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions

but you

have to take into account dustys ego

if you remove all his favorite players you he will be aware of it and if you dicate who he must play your basically treating him like a rookie or stop gap (which is bascially what he is) and your going to have a pissed off manager instead of a guy who is going to be motivated to shine in his two month stint -- also that kind of atmosphere isnt the kind i want our young players trying to break into the game in--

we need a guy to finish the season out then go get cora or whomever

"a sort of soft tyranny of positivity" -GM

by ksucubbie on Jul 7, 2006 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions

Bob Brenly

Brenly has funny things to say about his first manager (Frank Robinson?). Who, it seemed, hated his guts and took every chance to take him to school. If you can play the game, then you can take it from your poisonous manager.

Besides, I can't believe that Dusty would really bring the hate on some poor rookie just because his boss told him to play him instead of Neifi!. Murton and Cedeno need some seasoning this year, even if they don't get great coaching, they need to play. Hendry could simply step in and make them play.

by Woodstock on Jul 7, 2006 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions

ok imagine

that your a boss at your job and your high up says that you have to fire all your favorite co workers and hire people he likes,
further you know that in a short time you will have no future with the company

are you really going to give 100% ?

baker wouldnt shut down he has more class than that but while our young guys are up lets just have a manager without any stigma or baggage

"a sort of soft tyranny of positivity" -GM

by ksucubbie on Jul 7, 2006 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions

Keep in mind

that Baker is essentially auditioning for his next job right now. Other GMs will watch how he handles this situtation and probably consider it if they need a manager in the near future.

by jcub on Jul 7, 2006 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions

But see...

Neifi! is not a coworker, he is a subordinate who is like a crack pipe. Baker knows he is a great sub, but he just cannot help but use him as a starter. It is an addiction that needs some intervention.

I just think that Baker has too much free rein over who plays. If you want player development, set that as his goals to get rehired. Make it public that Hendry said this is the way we are going and Dusty has his hands tied. Make it secret, and you make Dusty and the Cubs look bad.

by Woodstock on Jul 7, 2006 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions

AGREE

"Just not getting any breaks" Johnnie Baker

by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Jul 7, 2006 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions

I know...

Ramirez is lazy. I can deal with that stuff when he's hitting .300 and hitting 30+ homers with 100+ RBIs and the team is winning. As I have said, performance and wins make me shut up. None of that is happening so he should hustle to improve his chances because everything else he's doing is not working.

I'm not sure if it was just me, but on Lee's error it looked like he wasn't trying. Maybe Lee was just being careful.

"...he's a veteran with a big dollar contract." Which probably doesn't help his chances of changing, but even if Dusty is screaming at him in an enclosed room that nobody knows about we see no effect. I think that no matter what Dusty is doing, behind, next to, or in front of doors isn't working.

Cubbie Blue will always sPaRkLe in my eyes, but please stop losing. PLEASE!

by sparkles721 on Jul 7, 2006 9:41 AM CDT reply actions

Maybe Ramirez needs a public lashing.

Al, I agree with you that Dusty can't physically push ARam around the bases, but if a private "stern talking-to" hasn't been effective for the past three years, maybe he needs to have his widdle feewings hurt by being berated in front of the other players.

As you said, he has 11 million reasons to play hard and run out every hit. But if he has forgotten why he gets paid, then Dusty must yell at him, sit him for a game, tell Hendry to trade him. Do something. IIRC, last night wasn't even the first time he has done exactly what he did by failing to run hard to first, then getting thrown out.

by jcub on Jul 7, 2006 9:42 AM CDT reply actions

Point being...

... how do you know this isn't happening?

We do not know what happens in private. The only thing you mention that we'd know about is whether or not he sits for a game.

Do you really want Neifi or Nevin at 3B for a game? Because that's what you'd get.

by Al Yellon on Jul 7, 2006 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions

yeah

our options are limited i seem to remember that Alou was big motivator for him so maybe call that guy up and ask what his secrets where- or trade his ass for some hungry propsects

al, any further news on that arod thing?

"a sort of soft tyranny of positivity" -GM

by ksucubbie on Jul 7, 2006 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions

Nothing new on A-Rod, no...

... I would imagine that IF such a thing happened, it would take till the end of July, given the size of the contracts involved.

Plus, A-Rod being on the AL All-Star team and all, I'd think it might be left alone till after the break.

by Al Yellon on Jul 7, 2006 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions

Again, Al...

Does this team look anything like one where there is any accountability or standards at all? The only thing consistent about this team is its lackadaisical, sloppy play.

Baker simply does not give off an attitude of high standards and accomplishment. For the last two years the team has been playing like they're doing bong hits in the dugout.

by dvdmgsr on Jul 7, 2006 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions

I have been

Preaching accountability also, there is none. Managers need to be stern in certain situations, and Dusty, appears to cranking on the Bong

"Just not getting any breaks" Johnnie Baker

by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Jul 7, 2006 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions

That is McPhails new promotion...

...free bongs and weed to the first 39,000 fans into Wrigley each day.....

Hendry: I don't know what to do?

McPhail: Easy, we'll just get everyone high like us, then they'll understand. Plus we'll sell more hot dogs and nachos and that'll make the Trib. happy!

vote santo for h.o.f.

by santo for prez on Jul 7, 2006 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions

The season is lost

Who cares if Neifi or Nevin plays at 3rd if it sends a message to Aramis that will hopefully change his attitude for next year. Neifi is going to play anyhow, this way, maybe Walker gets to play, too.

Conversely, trade Aramis and go sign Edgardo Alfonso to play 3B for the rest of the season for the league minimum. I'm sure he'd take it.

Sit Aramis for a week and have him do extra conditioning work.

This is the type of lazy play and behavior that just isn't tolerated in winning organizations.

by Scott @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 7, 2006 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions

Aramis needs to be benched but...

Nevin would be a better fit than Alfonso at 3B

by Augie on Jul 7, 2006 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions

Edgardo Alfonzo...

... was released by TWO teams this year. He hit .100/.135/.120 for the Angels, and .162/.279/.189 for the Blue Jays. Why on Earth would you want this guy anywhere NEAR the Cubs?

Sitting Ramirez for a week -- well, that'd accomplish a lot. Put the team's 2nd-best hitter on the bench?

Maybe pulling him from last night's game, a la Bobby Cox with Andruw Jones, might have helped. But a week? Silly.

by Al Yellon on Jul 7, 2006 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions

Maybe silly, but it would send the message

The only reason I even mention Alfonso is only if Aramis and Nevin are both traded. Even then, I wouldn't mind seeing Neifi play 3rd as long as he doesn't bat 2nd. Alfonso would simply fill a hole until this horrible wreck of a season ends. Not like I'd want to see him in the long term plans.

SOMETHING needs to happen to shake this team up. You seem to be okay with status quo for the rest of the season and that fine. Other's of us would like to see the tone set now for changes that will be made next year.

It seems like every year, either here or on the newsgroup previously, I write something about how this team is lacking fundamentals and hustle. I'm certainly not the only person who is noticing that. I'm tired of seeing this crap. You don't see this happen on teams with an expectation of success. It simply isn't tolerated.

SOMETHING needs to happen, and maybe making an example of your teams 2nd best hitter would be enough to wake a few people up and make them realize they better move their asses and keep their heads in the game if they want to play.

Of course, none of this will happen with Dusty at the helm because he's too laid back, dude. They've just got to play better, you know. I mean, if he had the horses...blah blah blah. Maybe if Dusty had a pair of balls some of this humiliating season could have been avoided.

2003 was the worst possible thing to happen to this team, because it gave us fans a taste of success and some expectations of continued success. The Cub brass have not provided that.

SOMETHING needs to light a fire under these guys to help them find their pride rather than just lining their pockets with millions of dollars.

by Scott @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 7, 2006 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions

Sitting Ramirez TODAY

for one game only should suffice for a Baker message that he won't tolerate lazy play, even on a lousy team.

If there isn't a PUBLIC reprimand of some nature here I would interpret that to mean that Baker has given up on this team. Regardless of any private conversation he may have held with Aramis I think it is important for Baker to publicly display his leadership to show to the world that he gives a damn and hasn't given up himself on this team.

by JFCubFan on Jul 7, 2006 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions

because there are no results

he's either not doing it or not getting through to them.

by mike bornemann @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 7, 2006 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions

Sorry

But when a player shlumps it on the field, You bench him for a game or two. He may very well be disciplined in private but whoopdeedoo. Sit Him.

by BadGuy on Jul 7, 2006 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions

thrown out trying for extra bases...

n/t

by jcub on Jul 7, 2006 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions

Yes, play marmol at third..

At this point, it doesn't matter which player steps in to play one or two games for Ramirez. Sure, we want a reasonably entertaining game, but it makes me nauseous to see Ramirez give a partial effort so often.

Yell at him, sit him, or mention his weak effort repeatedly during interviews (not common, but has happened). Just get his attention. If he can't handle it, then he should either shape up or get out of the big leagues.

My general point--from the theme of your original post--is that I don't believe that Dusty is to blame for everything (this team is not well built). But even with injuries, this team is not a 100-loss team. Look up and down the Pirates or Royals lineups. Each team has very little in the way of talent. The Cubs, on the other hand, have Pierre, Ramirez, Jones, and Barrett (not counting Lee, b/c he sat so much of season, or young players). If those players don't pick it up and play decent baseball when Lee gets hurt, it is Dusty's job to motivate them or get somebody in the lineup who will play hard (someone else pointed out that several players have come up from the minors for multiple games throughout the season, but you almost never see them play--Guzman sitting for two weeks is the most egregious example of which I can think. No explanation, unless he is hurt). Dusty isn't doing his job. Get someone else in here (I like your Gonzalez idea--I think a Bobby Cox protege would be nice).

by jcub on Jul 7, 2006 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions

and god

i cant spell today

"a sort of soft tyranny of positivity" -GM

by ksucubbie on Jul 7, 2006 9:47 AM CDT reply actions

Capuano

Capuano absolutely owns the Cubs. So far this year, his collective ERA against the Cubs is 0.00, with 2 CGs. I couldn't find his career totals against the Cubs, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was 8-1, ERA < 2. Genuine Cub killer.

I was saying Boo-urns.

by jrm78 on Jul 7, 2006 9:58 AM CDT reply actions

Capuano

His overall ERA is now 3.21.

His ERA against the rest of the league is 3.83.

by dvdmgsr on Jul 7, 2006 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions

It's obvious

that he doesn't 'ream out' A-Lazy in private because A-Lazy has never changed. He's allowed to get away with his lazy sloppy play over and over again. Yes, Pinella or anyone else would have his guts for garters. And rightfully so. Dusty's excuse machine has to go. This pitiful excuse of a team is not all Dusty's fault. Hendry has a lot to answer for especially the woeful state of the bench and lack of power on this team. But there were two instances in yesterday's game, that I pointed out, in the 4th and 7th inning, that costs the Cubs two runs due to poor managing and lack of discipline. That's Dusty's fault and he has to go.

by kessinger on Jul 7, 2006 10:01 AM CDT reply actions

It doesn't follow..

that since Ramirez hasn't changed, that Baker hasn't reamed him out. Anyone with a difficult child can tell you this.

by wicubfan on Jul 7, 2006 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions

Congrats...

on getting some pub. It is well deserved.

As for the "August" date, do you think that the Cubs brass is worried about bringing into an interim manager too early? I do not remember a team bringing in an interim manager in July.

he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Jul 7, 2006 10:06 AM CDT reply actions

I would certainly wager that

Dusty HAS previously reamed out A-Ram for not hustling. Baker SHOULD ream him out for not hustling. My point is that for whatever reason, (and I can't explain why) apparently, Ramirez doesn't respect Baker enough to take the reaming to heart. Ramirez knows when he walks into the clubhouse the next day, he'll see his name on the line-up card.

No manager WANTS to treat his players like children and discipline them. In certain instances though, you've got to send a message, a message that can be seen by both the offending player AND his teammates.

I'm frustrated man. If I performed poorly doing my job, my boss would reprimand me until the problem was corrected.

IMO, we need a manager that holds the players accountable for their actions. I wish Dusty Baker was the guy. I'm sure he's a heck of a guy. Most players like him. Clearly though, his act just isn't working anymore.

Al, I'm sorry we disagree on this subject. I respect your opinion. I'm just tired of watching this team play poorly and I demand accountability.

One day, the dream will come true.

by brianp88 on Jul 7, 2006 10:08 AM CDT reply actions

Incentives in contract?

While most monies are locked in surely A Ram and all players have incentives built in don't they? If his playing time decreased wouldn't that lower his chances of reaching those incentives and therefor serve to motivate, if as Al says the players should be motivated by their contracts?

Brian, I felt the same way when Jones was getting caught off base on line drives. Sloppy mental play should find a seat on the bench; especially in this "lost year". Granted he has turned his season around since then, but A Ram does not seem to be the same self-starter as JJ.

If in fact Moises was the big broham that kept ARam in line, surely the Manager and GM knew this when they let him go, right? Where was the veteran, DR player to fill that void? Ugh.

by blueisthecolor on Jul 7, 2006 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions

"playing time" usually is the incentive

The only incentives allowed in an MLB players
contract relate to things like AB or IP or appearences
etc. They are NOT allowed to applied to what you
might call specific playing accomplishments like
BA, HR ERA etc. You can also have a bonus for awards
such as Cy Young , Batting Title , selection to All Star
Game etc. However you can not for instance
put in Ramirez's contract that he would get more
money for hitting well or running the bases properly

by jessica on Jul 7, 2006 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions

Scott Skiles

Has publicly said that the only thing he has over his players is playing time. If you don't play basketball the way he wants you to play, you don't get playing time.

Baker may have screamed at Ramirez or he may have just said you gotta run those out, Dude. Or he may have said nothing and just stared at him shaking his head. Who knows? The fact is Ramirez has repeated the same lazy play over and over.

Does that make Dusty Baker a bad manager? I think so, but maybe Aramis is just really lazy and doesn't have any heart. Maybe he's uncoachable.

But where Dusty's got it wrong is that he defends such behavior trying to save face for his players, they may like him for it and may even play harder to save Dusty's job. But it sure doesn't look like they're to worried about thier savior.

"Harlem Furniture......You'll like our style!"

by Imtrejo on Jul 7, 2006 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions

Re

And where Dusty's got it wrong is that pretty much the whole team plays this way. They know there's no consequence - unless you're Cedeno and you don't read Dusty's mind while at bat and swing at what he wants you to swing at.

If it were just ARam, then you focus on the player. But when it's the whole team, it's a management problem.

Visit The Digital Gazette

by Jed Taylor on Jul 9, 2006 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions

thank you

good clarification jessica, so AB's might factor in if he sits enough, though i am sure that the clause is more frequently related to injury prone players.

by blueisthecolor on Jul 7, 2006 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions

The problem with Dusty's "approach".

Okay, this is another reason why Dusty is an awful manager, his approach of bending over backwards to defend inexcuseable lackadasical play gives people THE PERCEPTION that Dusty tolerates any sort of B.S. from the players. It is not so much that Dusty is not screaming his idiot head off like some want, it is that he actively goes out of his way to publicly defend the indefensible. This is a stupid tactic and one that rightly leads to all-kinds of criticism, some even mis-directed.

Okay, the point here is that when you get up and speak like an idiot in fron of everyone, on purpose and for a specific purpose, it is grossly condescending to most reasonable people...

Last night I thought Dusty laid into Aramis because the AP took the quote out of context. He did not. In fact he said something like Aramis was hustling just not husting at the right time. What? Just shut up and save this B.S. for yourelf, Dusty or go back to the standrad old lines of "It's a tough loss, but we can only play one game ata time..."

Personally, I don't want him to rip Aramis publicly, and neither do the vast majority of Cubs fans, i.e., we see the harm in such temper outburts. But the flips side is just as bad when you defend the guy. Just shut-up and let the big boy defend his own lazy butt, i.e., make him take his lumps.

I thought about Dusty commenting on the guilty verdict of the 4 higher ups in the Daly regime "Dude, they are honest men, they just were corrupt at the wrong times..."

In addition to his lousy managing, we get this crap...

My problem with this goes beyond the obvious problems with such nonsensical statements, it's that it encourages a reasonable speculation from everyone that Dusty is this lacadasical and undisicplined with this team ALL THE TIME. This is a totally reasonable response when this is the "front" that is deliberately put before the public over and over again. Moreover, when the team consistently plays in an undisicplined and who gives a _ manner, it's even more damning of the Manager's approach and abilities.

The remedy does not require public tongue lashings, but does anyone reasonably think that Dusty is taking care of this crap behind the scenes? If he is, then he is utterly incompetent at this task because this team's fundamental play gets worse each season under this magnificent clown.

Dusty moves quickly with vindictive retribution when anyone remotely close to the teams criticizes him publicly. Yet when players are berating announcers, doing B.S. unprofessional things during a game and on and on we get the sky is blue response. Quit puting the B.S. spin on everything you tired old gas bag and just go away...The amazing thing is that Dusty then gets all defensive and disappoitned that people didn't like what he said. "Hey, Dusty, you, S.F.B., we aren't 5 year olds who you drag to press conferences. We are not required to accept your B.S."

by DudeVf1 on Jul 7, 2006 10:12 AM CDT reply actions

good rant

longest post ever...

"The Cubs are due in Sixty-Two" - Ernie Banks

by TimeForChili on Jul 7, 2006 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions

Good for you Al

I liked the quote they used from you Al.

"I can see Hendry wanting to go in a different direction, especially after seeing managers like Mike Scioscia, Ken Macha, Ozzie Guillen, Eric Wedge and Ned Yost, all men with no managerial experience [before their hirings], having success [to varying degrees]".

This line of thinking is the equivalent of an NFL team drafting a quarterback in the sixth round because Tom Brady and Matt Hasselbeck have been sixth round draft successes. Again, if you can provide a reason why Piniella would be a disaster other than "he only knows how to kick ass" then I would like to read it.

cubsfan4life

by cubfan4life on Jul 7, 2006 10:13 AM CDT reply actions

Because...

... as has been often stated here by JoshinLA, among others, Piniella's managerial tendencies are EXACTLY like Baker's; he doesn't handle starting pitchers very well, loves playing veterans, and likes having his hitters be "aggressive".

He'd be like having Baker, except all his players would hate him.

Within a month of his hiring, this site would be filled with "Fire Lou!" diaries.

by Al Yellon on Jul 7, 2006 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions

What?

"Piniella's managerial tendencies are EXACTLY like Baker's"

You have no idea what your talking about. Piniella is probably more similiar to Don Zimmer in 1989. This guy is a risk taker.

The following was written about Lou after the playoff series against the white sox in '01.

But after Olerud ripped a liner off White Sox reliever Kelly Wunsch and was standing on second, Piniella knew it was the right call to go for the win.

So out came Olerud, in came Rickey, down went the bunt by Javier. Piniella knew what to do next.

"As soon as I saw Ole on second base, I said 'Get me (Carlos) Guillen. I want to talk to him,'" Piniella said.

"I told (Guillen) 'If the ball's (coming straight) on, push the ball toward Thomas (at first) and give Rickey a chance to score.' It's going to be hard for Frank to throw him out."

Piniella knew that Sox manager Jerry Manuel had not removed Thomas, as perhaps he should have, considering he had played so little of the position this season, none in the series before yesterday.

While Guillen had been little-used over the past month because of deficient defense, Piniella knew that other than Javier, no one works more on his fundamentals than Guillen.

In Game 1, Piniella stole the show at Comiskey Park when he went out to first base and talked with Mike Cameron about how and when to steal second.

The unprecedented move seemed to set the stage for Cameron's subsequent steal and Edgar Martinez's game-winning homer in the top of the 10th.

This is what Jay Buhner said about Uncle Lou after the series.

"I would run through a wall for this guy. He's awesome," Buhner said afterward, eyes burning with beer and champagne in the Mariners' wet-as-rain clubhouse.

"Who'd have thunk Lou would put on a squeeze play right there? You can't say enough about Lou. Since he came here in '95, he basically changed this whole organization around. Look where we're at. Look at this ballpark. You got to have a guy like that. We've been to the postseason three times, and it's because of him."

Yeah Al I see your point, he's just like Dusty. The guy comes out of the dugout to give Cameron specific instructions on when to steal a base and Dusty can't come out of the dugout to calm his team down as they begin their meltdown in the'03 playoffs.

cubsfan4life

by cubfan4life on Jul 7, 2006 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions

fantastic post!

you've touched all the right buttons, now i'm sure you're going to hear all the experts tell you how wrong you are.
bring on sweet lou!! it's time to kick ass and take names!

wheatfield mike down here in god's country

by wheatfield mike on Jul 7, 2006 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions

I think Lou is a great manager

and would not be shy about a "big name" manager. However, Lou really seemed to mail it in during his last year in Tampa (didn't they buy out a year of his contract?). He might just be too old to care for a full season.

I think the most important thing would be for Hendry to find a manager who can manage the players on this team (or those he is going to acquire).

by jcub on Jul 7, 2006 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions

Your right...

...perhaps about Lou "mailing it in" last year. I think it was a mistake for him to take that job. His heart wasn't in it, it was more of a convenience for him because he lives in Florida. The Devil Rays were never going to come close to having a $100mil payroll and that may be what Lou finds attractive about coming to chicago. That being said, I still believe Lou left the Devil Rays in better shape than when he started.

cubsfan4life

by cubfan4life on Jul 7, 2006 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions

I'm not saying you are right or wrong

but is this one instance really supposed to be the defining difference between the two managers?

And I reject Buhner's quote as a valid assessment, as nobody after winning a playoff game in dramatic would say, "Damn, our manager's a moron".

by gravedigger on Jul 7, 2006 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions

There is a definate...

...difference between their two styles of managing. Lou is an agressive manager. After watching the Cubs the last three and a half seasons, would you call Baker's style of managing "agressive"? Lou's teams are usually tops in the majors in stolen bases. How many bases have the Cubs stolen in three and a half seasons?

Buhner's comment about Piniella was coherant and dead on accurate. Usually players that don't like or have anything nice to say about their coaches, don't usually say anything at all.

cubsfan4life

by cubfan4life on Jul 7, 2006 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions

Whether or not...

...there is a difference in their "style" is irrelevant. The fact that both are poor handlers of pitching staffs and have unrelenting preferences for veterans makes me dislike both of them.

Also, stolen bases are a highly overvalued statistic; in fact, it is probably not a good idea for players to attempt stealing most of the time. Outs are a precious commodity in a game - there are only 27 - and taking a risk at losing one of those weighs more heavily than the benefits of successfully stealing the base. I believe most statheads say that unless a guy is successful 75% of the time, it is more beneficial not to steal. A team leading the league in steals might also be near the top in caught stealing. That's not really helping the team.

I still disagree about Buhner's comments. People are usually more generous with praise than usual when placed in an atmosphere of euphoria.

by gravedigger on Jul 7, 2006 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions

Huh?

"Outs are a precious commodity in a game - there are only 27 - and taking a risk at losing one of those weighs more heavily than the benefits of successfully stealing the base."

That's just silly. Here's an even more precious commodity in a baseball game - runs. Stealing bases helps to create runs. Jose Reyes of the Mets leads the NL in runs scored. He also happens to to lead the NL in stolen bases with 39.
While Reyes is not the sole reason the Mets are in first place, he is a major contributor.

Five of the top ten run scorers in all of MLB have 17 or more stolen bases. The other five guys? Jim Thome, David Ortiz, Travis Hafner, Grady Sizemore and Chase Utley. Obviously, Thome, Ortiz and Hafner knock themselves in. Sizemore and Utley have obp's of .371 and .374 respectively.

Point is, if you can steal bases you will score more runs, and those runs are far more precious than outs.

One day, the dream will come true.

by brianp88 on Jul 7, 2006 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions

Its not silly

This is a great article that sums up what I (and many others) think about steals:
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2607

Steals CAN be a great way to help score runs - if you use them correctly. I believe that steals are overvalued because most people don't care about how a steal is used, they just assume that stealing is good if a guy is fast. I'm just saying that's not always true.

by gravedigger on Jul 7, 2006 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions

Steals do not always lead to runs, but

one thing statheads are not able to compute is when a juan pierre--ricky henderson--vince coleman-type guy is on base and the pitcher has to throw over five times during an at bat, they often throw a fat pitch over the plate because they are so distracted. This pressure/distraction does not really show up in the stats, especially because every hitter behind the base-stealer is not the same.

That article, which I have seen before, is a pretty well-reasoned article, and I believe admits the weaknesses of the stathead argument.

by jcub on Jul 7, 2006 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions

On second thought,

the article off-handedly dismisses the distracted pitcher notion. Yet, I've seen it happen many times. Not only is the pitcher adjusting, so is the catcher (and sometimes they throw into center field), etc.

The last part of the article, talking about Lou Piniella's strategy of only letting successful base-stealers take bases, is dead on, I think.

by jcub on Jul 7, 2006 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions

Well

I wouldn't say it "admits the weaknesses of the stathead argument" as much as it gives a well-reasoned approach, considering both sides (or all sides, if there are more than two ways to view it).

And you are right - sometimes I have a hard time justifying my adherance to a "stathead" POV. For instance, when it seems like every freaking time Ortiz comes to the plate with runners on and his team down, he hits a home run. Or when I get excited over stolen bases. Or when I see just what you describe - the little nuances that don't tend to show up in the stats.

But then I go read a little bit of Bill James' writing and return to earth ;) Actually, I forget about all this stuff during the actual watching of a game. That's why I will not be sending in my application for manager when Baker is finally terminated.

by gravedigger on Jul 7, 2006 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions

So...

... based on his actions in ONE playoff game, you say he's not like Baker?

Look at his entire career, not just one game.

The Cubs don't need a screamer. Would that satisfy you, watching the games on TV, seeing the Cub manager storming out of the dugout, throwing bases and kicking dust on umpires?

Great. Enjoy it. That's not how a winner is built.

by Al Yellon on Jul 8, 2006 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions

i couldn't care less

if we go with a big name, as long as its a good manager. If God himself wanted to manage this team, and he knew about obp, mathups and how to double switch, I wouldn't turn him away because "he's a big name." Find a GOOD manager, bild a good team and quit getting hung up on stupid PR details.

by mike bornemann @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 7, 2006 10:44 AM CDT reply actions

ARam's hustle

Keep in mind Aramis has had numerous leg problems in the past, not unlike Moises Alou. My guess is that, at one time, the Cubs made it clear to Ramirez that he would be excused from running out every ground ball lest he further injure his hamstring. (Same goes for Jacque Jones, by the way). But then A-Ram got into some bad habits, so even when he is healthy, he doesn't go all out when running.

In the past, Ramirez HAS been into the game. How many times have we seen him smile during an at-bat, with that look like "I can hit you, sucker" in a big situation. He doesn't have that look this year, and I believe it's more about losing than Dusty or anything else.

The reason to trade Aramis is not that he won't hit 30 HR and .300, because he might still do that this season and beyond. The reason to consider a trade is that he is so down about this team that he will become a free agent at the end of the year just to get out of Chicago, even if it means taking similar dollars elsewhere. I wouldn't blame him.

by cubzfan on Jul 7, 2006 11:03 AM CDT reply actions

I remember that.

I remember it when he came up against Derrick Turnbow one time last year, and I just knew he was going to hit a homerun. He did.

I hope this season doesn't scare too many people away.

Cubbie Blue will always sPaRkLe in my eyes, but please stop losing. PLEASE!

by sparkles721 on Jul 7, 2006 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions

disgraceful from top to bottom

Al, how bad does if have to get. jeez louise. and you defend this crap like he's your flesh and blood. baker is only one of the many who should be canned. but make no mistake he richly deserves to be canned. the sooner the better. it won't matter this year, but the same crap for another season, its to awful to contemplate.

by sickofthis on Jul 7, 2006 12:31 PM CDT reply actions

Al,

Do you think TribCo and for that matter, the Cubs are hearing/ caring what the fans think now?

IMHO, these folks are tuned into the angst that most, all, Cubs fans have regarding this bunch of losers. They are, after all, concerned with perception. The view they are seeing is not a pretty one. The team is rotten and the fans are ready to explode.

Changes are coming. This ultimately may be the best thing that has happened to this franchise.

he hath no fury like a cubs fan scorned

by timeforachange on Jul 7, 2006 12:57 PM CDT reply actions

agreed

i've gone to 20 games a year for the last 45 years. this is the worst. lets set the mark for most losses, make it too shameful for even hendry/mcfail to ignore. bring on the changes, its hard to imagine it getting worse.

by sickofthis on Jul 7, 2006 1:36 PM CDT reply actions

Myth

"The fact that both are poor handlers of pitching staffs and have unrelenting preferences for veterans makes me dislike both of them".

Both of these statements are myths when talking about Lou. It wasn't until he was able to have a solid bullpen with the Mariner's was he able to translate the talent he had into success. In 1990 when the Reds won the World Series he operated the number 5 slot in the rotation by committee. He also utilized his bullpen to perfection in the playoffs. The average age of that team was around 26. He brought along some solid young players with the Mariners and with the tampa bay devil rays we saw the promise of young Baldelli and Crawford while also seeing Scott Kazmir at nineteen pitch in the big leagues and he's turned into a solid pitcher.

About stolen bases, it's not about having the ability to steal bases but rather knowing when to steal bases. Lou knows when.

cubsfan4life

by cubfan4life on Jul 7, 2006 2:07 PM CDT reply actions

Baseball-reference.com

shows that his teams' SB% were always around 75%, supporting your assertion. I'll grant you that; he does appear to know when to send his runners.

And, actually, I think you are right in that he gained his reputation as supporting veterans mostly because his Seattle teams were old. But his Cin/TB teams having young players and his Seattle teams being fogeys doesn't really support either of our cases.

That all said, I really, REALLY don't think he'd be hired. I'll offer a friendly wager. If he is, give me your address, and I'll ship you a pair of fresh Hawaiian pineapples. If he isn't, I get to sleep soundly at night. ;)

by gravedigger on Jul 7, 2006 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions

Your probably....

...right that he won't be hired. This Cub organization runs on public relations and spin. They don't have the cajones to hire someone as opinionated as a Piniella. But if I did take that bet and won it wouldn't be nearly fair enough seeing as how I truly love fresh pineapple. :)

cubsfan4life

by cubfan4life on Jul 7, 2006 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions

Not really

He brought along some solid young players with the Mariners

Sure, he brought A-Rod along. That was a no-brainer. But Raul Ibanez, Bret Boone, Scott Posednik and Carlos Guillen all sat on the bench doing nothing for Piniella while mediocre veterans played.

OK, Guillen was behind A-Rod, but Russ Davis was stinking up third base while Guillen sat on the bench. Boone, Podsednik and Ibanez all had to get traded to get any playing time.

Piniella's record for playing young players in Tampa was the result of only having young players. And he loudly complained to the press about that every chance he got.

He gave Reggie Sanders a shot in Cincinnati. If you've got to go back fifteen years to get a good example of him playing a kid, I don't think that really is a good sign that you give kids a shot.

Piniella's reputation with young players is well deserved. If you're Alex Rodriguez, he'll play you. If he has absolutely no other choice, like in Tampa, he'll play you but he won't like it. Otherwise, Sweet Lou sticks with veterans.

by Josh Timmers on Jul 7, 2006 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions

Sit A Ram, your crazy

OK is A Ram lazy, yes, but we knew that when we got him. Can he hit, yes. Play OK defense, yes. Is he having a bad year, yes. He is still one of the better 3B in the league. Does anybody remember that he was an allstar last year. He can put up big numbers, but we cannot look at him that way. He is not good when the spotlight is on him. He is better in the shadow of Lee. That's why his numbers are down (although if you watch his at bats he is hitting the ball hard). Sitting him out will only make him want to leave Chicago which he can at the end of the season which is not good because the rest of the 3B free agents suck. Packaging him in a deal for A Rod is fine because it's A Rod, but don't think thats going to happen. I think people are over reacting because of one play.

Fire Dusty and send Henry to rehab.

by cubfaninSTL on Jul 7, 2006 2:39 PM CDT reply actions

No Piniella please.

I was as big a Mariners fan as any back in the mid-90s. They were my AL team (kind of still are) and I loved watching them. This was about 10 years ago now and Piniella's managing seemed like a nonfactor in St. Pete. This is NOT the kind of manager the Cubs want. I completely agree that there will immediately be FIRE LOU posts here if the Cubs hired him.

It's time for a whole new philosophy, an entirely new form of baseball at Wrigley Field and it starts with some very very fresh blood and some solid talent development, not with a Lou Piniella who made the playoffs with a stacked team.

As a Cubs fan, The 2006 season will be remembered by me as....the first that I could buy Old Style cans with Cubs logos on them....

by coopergillan on Jul 7, 2006 3:12 PM CDT reply actions

Ramirez & Baker

His lack of effort is a true reflection of how Dusty handles his team. If Baker has already talked to Ramirez then why do we continue to see this on the field? If he just talked/reamed him last night then that's an even bigger problem.

Ramirez needs a serious fire lit under him, He has all the talent in the world other than speed but that's no excuse for not running out what he thinks are homeruns. I saw Jacque Jones hug Dusty Baker after he hit homerun, something tells me Ramirez and Baker won't be hugging anytime soon.

To Bleed or Not to Bleed?

by TheRamZamDLEE on Jul 7, 2006 3:17 PM CDT reply actions

To all the Dusty defenders.....

Yes we know, Hendry should be fired also.

But just as Al said that everyone should deal in "reality" not too long ago, it's also time to deal in "reality".

Hendry isn't going anywhere, McFail isn't going anywhere. Dusty is the fall guy. Bottom line.

Ramirez should have been pulled from the game last night and benched today. But guess what? He wasn't and probably won't be benched today.

"How does any of us know that he hasn't reamed him out in private"?

Hmmm, let me think......BECAUSE THE SAME THINGS KEEP HAPPENING WITH NO CONSEQUENCE TO THE PLAYER !!!!

Which means the team doesn't care or has tuned out the manager. Meaning it's time for Dusty to go.

God forbid an "interim" guy is named. How could anyone possibly follow in the giant footsteps of Dusty?

by Peoria Matt on Jul 7, 2006 3:44 PM CDT reply actions

Your comments are

so obvious that I cannot understand why they are being dismissed by some. What message is the treatment of Aram's bad habits sending to young ballplayers?

Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Jul 7, 2006 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions

Re

They get dismissed because for some if Dusty Baker turned out to be the 20th 9/11 hijacker, they would find a way to exhonerate him.

You see, the hyperbole can run both ways, and only by using hyperbole is Dusty Baker defensable.

Visit The Digital Gazette

by Jed Taylor on Jul 9, 2006 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions

Ramirez

Why no mention of accountability to his teammates? Rameriez isn't going to shed a tear cause Baker chews him out or sits him down a game. But what if each one of his teammates came up to him and said "You're letting us down playing that way. That's not the way the game is played. Maddux pitched his butt off tonight, and you let him down with lack of hustle." I bet he'd be more inclined to pick it up. This won't happen though, because on teams that are losing, no one really cares that much. On teams that are winning, no one ever wants to be the guy to let the team down and everyone plays their butt off.

They played hard. They did their best. Move on. Their whole life isn't out in that field. It's their job. It's not an obsession.

by McHuge on Jul 7, 2006 3:58 PM CDT reply actions

Ramirez has always been a dog

Ramirez proved last night what a joke he is. If I am Dusty, I bench the guy for two weeks. As soon as Ramirez is an ex-Cub, I will be happier. Teams don't win with dogs, no matter there wondrous run production ability. Trade him to the Anaheim Angels for one of their top prospects. Or trade him to San Diego. Or any place but Chicago.

by Mike63 on Jul 7, 2006 4:14 PM CDT reply actions

Neifi Cedeno

Ronny Cedeno is narrowing the gap between he and Neifi Perez in the offense category. Fact it Cedeno fans, the guy is Neifi reincarnate only without as good of a glove.

by Mike63 on Jul 7, 2006 4:16 PM CDT reply actions

Cherry Pie

Cherry Pie for Cub Fans Smart Enough to Realize that Young Players Cannot Be Measured in a Single Season

Take 3 cups of flour, 1/4 tsp salt and 1 cup shortening (butter/crisco mix). Blend together with as little water as neeeded to have it hold together. Place in refrigerator.

While chilling take 4 cups of fresh pitted pie cherries and mix with 2 cups of Sugar and 3 tablespoons of Tapiocca Flour. Let sit for at least 15 minutes.
Preheat over to 450
Take 1 cup sugar, 1 cup flour, 1 tablespoon lemon zest and 1 stick butter. Blend together to form pea sized chunks.

Roll out Chilled Pie dough and place in pan. Puur in Cherry Pie Filling. Spread sugar/butter/lemon zest flour mixture on top. Lightly tamp down.

Place in 450 oven. After 10 minutes, reduce to 350. Bake for 40 more minutes.

Let cool and serve with homemade ice cream.

by Frustrated Fan on Jul 7, 2006 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions

Sorry to report...

But Ronny's rookie numbers are very similar to Neifi's.

Ronny 377 AB (2005, 2006):
.271/.303/.355 15 BB 62 K 102 H 41 R 6 SB 6 CS

Neifi 358 AB (1996, 1997):
.273/.307/.413 21 BB 51 K 98 H 50 R 6 SB 6 CS

And his Neifi's rookie numbers were a good indication of what was to come:

Neifi career (4925 AB)
.269/.299/.379

I wish Ronny all the best and hope I am wrong, but the Cubs would be better off getting just about any other player in the league at SS or 2B.

They played hard. They did their best. Move on. Their whole life isn't out in that field. It's their job. It's not an obsession.

by McHuge on Jul 7, 2006 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions

Was Neifi

jerked around in the batting order? playing for the third-worst team in baseball, where even its superstars were playing sub-par? playing for a lame-duck manager from May through July (this affects players, especially young ones)?

I think Cedeno will be a solid player. Some of the ranging plays he has made are impressive. I believe that the current coaching staff has monkeyed his swing around so much he is a little lost.

by jcub on Jul 7, 2006 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions

In Colorado.

Perez was playing in Colorado. And it was the highest slugging percentage of his career (which is also nearly 100 points higher than his slugging with any team other than Colorado). Oh wait, that's right. You are always right and we should never give a young player a chance to develop. After all, the Braves and the A's have been such miserable failures following that strategy and the all veteran all the time strategy has worked so well for the Cubs.

Go off and play in traffic until you understand how to read statistics.

by Frustrated Fan on Jul 7, 2006 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions

Sandberg's 1st year numbers

.271/.312/.372 36BB 90K

So Ryno would not have turned into a HOF player?

How about Ozzie?

.258/.311/.312 47BB 43K

Neither developed into a quality offensive player until their 3rd or 4th year. Writing off either Cedeno or Murton at this early stage of their career is arrogant,

Players win awards but teams win championships.

by tharr on Jul 8, 2006 2:24 AM CDT up reply actions

You Don't Understand

if you play for Dusty Baker (or Lou Pinella) and Jim Hendry you basically have to play like an All-Star from the git go or you will be labeled a failure. Young players, under their theory, don't improve. You can only have veterans who have a set level of performance (interestingly, for Veterans the expected level of performance seems to be the best season that they ever had including Outliers, thus they often disappoint.)

by Frustrated Fan on Jul 8, 2006 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions

There you are, sunshine!

Where have you been hiding all day? Players and coaches have been walking around this place with impunity, with no one to smack 'em around. If you're going to allow that to continue to happen, then I'm going to have to label you as part of the problem.

Sorry.

"It's hard to put your finger on it. You have to have a dullness of mind and spirit to play here." --Jim Brosnan

by cubbiejulie on Jul 7, 2006 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions