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Dusty The Red

It seems oddly appropriate on the 99th anniversary of the Cubs' last World Series win in 1908, that the manager who came closest to bringing them back to the WS at any time since 1945, Dusty Baker, would get another chance to manage a major league team. This time it's the Cincinnati Reds. Baker reportedly signed a three-year deal, which will officially be announced at a press conference tomorrow.

I come here neither to bury Baker nor to praise him, but simply, as I did in July 2006 when I finally gave up any premise of supporting him, to explain what I think will happen as he takes over a division rival (and we won't have to wait long to see him; the Reds arrive at Wrigley Field for the thirteenth game of the 2008 season on April 15).

One of the reasons Dusty Baker had fourteen seasons as a major league manager was his instant success at turning two moribund franchises into winners. The 1993 Giants won 103 games, missing the playoffs on the season's final day (and they'd have been a wild card winner in any subsequent season, as the '93 NL West race was termed "The Last Real Pennant Race"); this was after a 90-loss season the year before.

Yes, a big part of that was the addition of the pre-big head Barry Bonds to the team; but another part of it was players' manager Baker, who at the time was only 44 years old and only seven years away from his last days as a player. Baker, from descriptions I've heard, not only was a "players' manager", but wanted to BE one of the guys. He never took charge of a clubhouse the way a manager should. In his early Giants days he had Will Clark keeping some semblance of control, and later on Matt Williams and Jeff Kent, as the Bonds show would have otherwise distracted from the goal at hand, Williams and Kent helped Baker's Giants teams make the postseason three times.

Similarly, with the Cubs in 2003, Baker's easygoing nature helped take a 95-loss team to a Central Division title and -- well, you know the final result. Part of his success was due to the clubhouse leadership of Damian Miller and Eric Karros. By 2004, with those players gone, and no player-leaders there to replace them, the clubhouse dissolved into factions, and Baker's influence over Jim Hendry helped stack the roster with the Rey Ordonezes, Enrique Wilsons, Tony Womacks, and Neifi Perezes of the world, with predictable results.

This is likely what will happen with the 2008 Reds. Without knowing much about the managerial styles of Jerry Narron and Pete Mackanin (who managed the Reds to a winning record, 41-39, and who probably deserved at least a chance to see what he could do with a full season of a healthy team), it seems likely that the player-friendly attitudes of Baker might give the Reds a real bounce for one season. We joke about Baker's tendencies to ride pitchers hard, to misuse his bullpen and to put Neifi on every team he manages (would he really try to bring Tom Goodwin back? Only time will tell). It's very likely that walk-machine Adam Dunn will be traded in the offseason for pitching help; if not, you can joke all you want about Baker telling Dunn "don't walk so much, Dude", but Baker would also probably adore Dunn's big, broad swing that produces 150+ strikeouts a year (and 40+ HR, too). What will be most interesting to see is what Dusty does with top Reds pitching prospect Homer Bailey, or youngish relievers like Todd Coffey and Jared Burton, and especially with Jay Bruce, Baseball America's 2007 Minor League Player of the Year, who by consensus should be starting somewhere in Cincinnati's outfield in 2008. The Reds could have a bounce to contention in 2008, perhaps even squeaking into the playoffs -- where they'd probably fall, due to some move or non-move of Bakers, and then revert to mediocrity in 2009 and beyond.

So welcome back to the fray, Dusty. If the comments at the SB Nation Reds site Red Reporter are any indication, you're in for a rough ride. And at least we won't have to listen to him on ESPN next year. If we learned anything from that, we now know Baker's far worse behind a microphone than he is in a dugout.

Oh, there's a NLCS game tonight, too. The Rockies were 12-5 at home in September and October -- the only loss was to the Diamondbacks. So maybe there's a chance this series won't be a sweep; the Indians made the ALCS interesting last night, in a game whose ending was seen by hardly anyone east of the Mississippi. What do they have to do to get these games over at a reasonable hour -- start them at noon?

MLB.com Gameday for the Rockies/Diamondbacks game (7:37 pm CT start)

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Dusty's Back
Blown out arms, base clogs, clubhouse turmoil, "blacks and Latins take the heat better", etc.

Enjoy him Cincy!

PERRY!!!!

by Goat Whisperer on Oct 14, 2007 10:17 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Random Thought
did Jake Peavy win the triple crown in piching this year?

by CubFan BudMan on Oct 14, 2007 10:17 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yes.
n/t
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 14, 2007 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm starting ...
the trade for Dunn campaign now. Assuming Sori can play right and that Hendry can't get Fukudome. Oh, and that Dunn's surgery goes OK.

If memory serves, Dunn is under contract through options for two more years. He's not cheap, but he wouldn't require a long-term deal. In two years, when the contracts for Sori, Ramirez, Lee, Lilly, et. al begin to escalate, Dunn can be off the books.

Other pluses: He's left handed and he walks a lot. He also, a much improved left fielder. And he crushes the ball at Wrigley.

Minuses: He also strikes out a lot and he's almost as confounding a player as Sori (lots of talent, hard to figure). Oh, and who knows if the Reds would be willing to trade him to the Cubs.

But I BET he could be had for some relief pitching and prospects. The Reds have a glut of outfielders (Griffey, Freel, Hamilton, Hopper).

Am I crazy?

by elgato on Oct 14, 2007 10:27 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I wanted Dunn very badly at one time...
... but he really is very close to becoming a full-time DH. I think Soriano could handle RF, but Dunn would be an absolute butcher in LF. What the Reds would want in return would be starting pitching, not relief pitching -- do the Cubs have that to give? Not really.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 14, 2007 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

disagree with you, Al
The Cincinnati papers were writing about his improved defense this year -- despite an injury that he's had for two seasons.

I think the Reds need more bullpen help than anything else. But let's say they want starters and relievers -- how about Marshall, Wuertz and Gallagher?

Lou seems to have something against Marshall (whereas Dusty gave him his shot in 2006), Wuertz is good, but behind Marmol, Howry and Dempster (and Wood, probably, if he's re-signed). And Gallagher is behind Z, Lilly, Hill and Marquis and probably Kevin Hart.

by elgato on Oct 14, 2007 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That deal wouldn't happen for at least...
 a half a dozen reasons just off the top of my head. Personally, there is only one destination for Adam Dunn, and that's the Angels. As a DH.

by Damen Jackson on Oct 14, 2007 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

actually
2008 is an option year for Dunn, and the Red's have yet to pick up, or buy out his option.  If they pick up his option, he can opt out of his contract, if he is traded before June 15th.  The Cub's could trade for him, and either get his word that he will play for them next season, or neogitate a long term deal.  

by stevegoodman on Oct 14, 2007 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know what you meant...
 the 2008 option is fairly well known. It's widely expected that the Reds will pick up the option, and I suspect that they will trade him, preferably for pitching. The Angels have a surplus of talent in that regard, and could badly use his bat. Besides, Dusty would probably salivate at the thought of Chone Figgins on his team, who LAA would happily throw in.

by Damen Jackson on Oct 14, 2007 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can't for a second
believe that the Angels would "happily" get rid of Chone Figgins.  Trading Figgins would be akin to cutting off an arm for the Angels.  

They need him because they have so many injury-prone players, and his combination of speed and average is at the heart of the Angels offensive philosophy.  I'm not saying they wouldn't trade Figgins, but prying him out of Anaheim would be like prying a nickel away from Carl Pohlad.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh77 on Oct 15, 2007 12:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Someone should tell that to...
 Stoneman. Actually, someone should tell Bill alot of things. I'm just the messenger. I'm told the front office is not really enamored with him, and neither is a good portion of the fan base. And frankly, when the Angels are looking at paying 5 million in arbitration next year for a utility man, I don't thing that's going to help. Now, that might change some after contending for a batting title last year, but there is a reason (promise) that the standard trade offer for the last two years has been Figgins and Santana.

 So with his value fairly high this off-season, I expect Figgins to leave.

by Damen Jackson on Oct 15, 2007 7:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well
Stoneman's gone now, isn't he?

Doesn't invalidate your point, which you made before that.  But it now looks like Mike Scioscia is firmly in charge in Anaheim, and he loves Figgins.

I don't know what part of the fan base isn't in love with Figgins.  I never heard any grumbling about him at Angels Stadium and mostly heard very loud and enthusiastic cheers.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh77 on Oct 17, 2007 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

don't the Angels already have a DH...
...in either Garret Anderson or Vlad the Impaler - whichever one is not playing in the field?  Assuming Little Sarge (Gary Matthews Jr.) comes back from injury, he's got to have one of the outfield spots.  And they want to play the wonderkid, Reggie Willits don't they?  With Kotchman or Morales playing first, I don't see where there's room for another DH type player.  At least that's the argument I keep hearing for them NOT being interested in Bonds.  Seems like the same logic would apply for Dunn.

Maybe Garret is not in their plans for next year?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 15, 2007 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

At this Point
in their respective careers Dunn is a much better ball player than Barry Bonds.  Dunn is capable of playing full time and all of the innings.  He has more than a season or two (at most) left in him.   And Dunn's an upgrade over Anderson as well.

by frustratedfan on Oct 15, 2007 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree on all points, but...
...trading for Dunn would create a 5 players for 4 spots musical chairs scenario amongst the three outfielders and DH.  Chances are with that group there'd always be somebody on the DL so it could work, but if everyone's healthy, who's gonna sit?  It's a volatile mix of egos, contracts, and talent.

That's why I put more credence in the Tejada or A-Rod rumors.  I wouldn't do it if I were GM, but I see one those happening more likely than trading for Dunn.  Unless they can offload Matthews Jr on some team who can afford an overpaid centerfielder...  uh oh, I hope Jim Hendry isn't reading this...

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Oct 15, 2007 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure...
... what games the Cincinnati writers were watching, but the ones where I saw Dunn play left field, he was awful.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 14, 2007 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he was merely bad
and not horrible.  He did not make as many errors, he caught most things he got to, and he would make accurate throws to the wrong base.

by stevegoodman on Oct 14, 2007 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he makes Soriano look like
Clemente...
Let me get back to you, will ya, Charlie? I got a guy on the other line asking about some white walls.

by JB 23 on Oct 14, 2007 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

HA HA!!
Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Oct 15, 2007 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I said Baker would not manage
again and was obviously wrong.  I just wonder what the thinking is behind a decision like this. Aren't these the same Reds who knocked Baker's Cubs out of it in 2004?  What did they possibly see in 2004 and 2005 that would make you want to hire him?  This is one of those decisions that is obvious to all but the ones making the decision.
Dallas Green!

by SonnyJ9 on Oct 14, 2007 11:21 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

excellent point
About the Reds witnessing the 2004 meltdown.

by elgato on Oct 14, 2007 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't think he'll make em great
Don't get me wrong, he very well could help get the Reds into October in '08. But that's more because I think the Reds are only a few pieces away from contending as is, at least in my personal opinion.

Dusty's good teams have had guys he can lean on... superstars. In '03 he had Wood, Prior, and a still solid Sammy Sosa. But the Reds don't have those guys. Harang is great, and I think Arroyo had a bad year and will at least be OK next year. But after that the pickings get pretty slim.

The Reds strike me as a team of guys who pick each other up without the big offensive name. Sure there's Griffey and Dunn. But Griffey is aging and Dunn has his limitations, I mean sometimes he was hitting 5th. They'll need team unity (and a bullpen) to become contenders.

Maybe Dusty won't need to provide that leadership because these guys have been playing together already. But if they take on more than a few new players, I think they'll start to lose their chemistry.

by WittyUserName on Oct 14, 2007 12:05 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The race card is played...
... even before Baker's intro press conference.

Or maybe part of it is Baker's African-American. Is that it? Tell me it's not. Marvin Lewis is African-American, but that's the Bengals, here just since 1968, never taken as personally around here as the Reds. I'd like to think we're past skin color. Wishing doesn't make it so.

This is from Cincinnati Enquirer columnist Paul Daugherty
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071014/COL03/310140017

Its amazing that a local columnist had to do this kind of damage control less than 24 hours after Baker agreed to a deal. But this comment is just so disturbing. To pretend that Dusty was a perfect manager and totally undeserving of any criticism denies reality. To think that the hundreds of negative comments are based on racism is just a crock. I'm left wondering if this columnist was a keen observer of what happened in Chicago and is trying to become Dusty's newest best friend in a city that is none too thrilled about their new manager.

DmL

by dmlichte on Oct 14, 2007 1:26 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

not so tough
to stay up to 2am est on a saturday :)
One of Us!One Of Us!

by HerrProf on Oct 14, 2007 1:40 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Dusty managing the Cincinnati Reds
lolololololololol!  rotfl!  lolololol!

Look out, Pirates, they're gunning for you.  Your days of owning the #6 spot in the NL Central are numbered!

by Rev Gunia on Oct 14, 2007 2:38 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Anyone want to post on Red Reporter
Offering them a good deal on our lightly used  "IN DUSTY WE
TRUSTY" shirts ? I would take $10 plus shipping for mine

Normally I would sincerely wish Dusty the best but as he is managing a division rival I can't do that.

"It's the Cubbies. There's always a vibe. It's the greatest vibe in baseball." Greg Maddux on Cub fan's optimism even after the 06 debacle.

by jessica on Oct 14, 2007 2:40 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I heard Dusty say one of the ESPN games...
he did with Jon Miller that he loved it as a player when the guys in front of him walked. I almost ran off the road. I was wondering what happened to his thinking in the meantime.

Anyway, good luck Dusty. Try the chili dogs.

by bison on Oct 14, 2007 3:13 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Well, this
should be interesting.
I'd like Geovany Soto to catch for me everyday. ;-)

by sue369 on Oct 14, 2007 3:32 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Funny take on Dusty's 2008
Our friends at "The Cub Reporter" have a hilarious summary of the 2008 season under Dusty. Check it out:
http://mvn.com/mlb-cubs/2007/10/14/2008-cincinatti-reds-year-in-review/#more-1219
Hoping to goodness is not theologically sound. --Linus

by moldyfolky on Oct 14, 2007 4:22 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I am speechless.
That's perfect.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 14, 2007 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Spit Take!
Holy Hannah, that is gut-busting hilarious!
PERRY!!!!

by Goat Whisperer on Oct 14, 2007 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

haha the best part!
He mistakes the Gonzalezs!!
Live is boring until March 31st strolls by..

by Chanman25 on Oct 14, 2007 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That Just Made My Day
I think it has helped me to pull myself from the pits of despair.  It is frightening though, that it may not be too far from the truth.
And so it goes.

by Luigi on Oct 14, 2007 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Simply
brilliant, Dunn 101 HRS with 320 K's

by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Oct 14, 2007 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Boy, Was That Good
But missing Neifi entirely -
¡BLANCO!

by 08Cubs on Oct 14, 2007 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

dusty..
i'm in no way a dusty supporter but in all fairness there isnt a manager in the world that could have taken our 04' and 05' injury plagued teams anywhere. okay the real reason i posted this comment----this might sound mean but i cant wait til he swallows one of those toothpicks.
Here comes the nasty leftie to shut it down in the 9th......Clay Rapada!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 14, 2007 7:28 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

You're wrong about the '04 team.
That team was better than the '03 team, and should have been in the postseason -- they had a 1.5 game lead in the wild card with 7 games remaining.

They might have made it if Dusty hadn't been so pigheaded about keeping LaTroy Hawkins, who was NOT suited to closing, as his closer. Hawkins blew saves in two key games in the final week.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 14, 2007 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not sure about that
I would take the 03 team over 04 every day of the week.  Reasons why:

-03 team was solid in the 1 and 2 holes
-they had a closer with a heart
-they could manufacture runs

the 04 team was more talented on paper, but in the end, the one dimensional offense killed them.  It's sort of the same lesson we learned in 07.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 15, 2007 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with most of your assessment, but....
If I remember correctly, was there really anyone else in that bullpen at that time who seemingly was lights out and potentially to take over that role?  That was a complete team failure down the stretch.  Dusty, by no means was immune, but the entire team tanked....and I agree, that team was better and could've/should've made some serious noise in the playoffs.

by LuisSalazar on Oct 15, 2007 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A lot of us...
... were screaming for Ryan Dempster to close in September 2004.

He'd have been far better than Hawkins.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 15, 2007 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

in september 2004
Dempster was little more then a year removed from tj surgery.  He probably didn't have his best command, or velocity.  He needed to be eased back in.  He probably couldn't pitch on back to back days.  The only reason he pitched in 2004 was to get his feet wet, and prep him for 2005.

by stevegoodman on Oct 16, 2007 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Still..
.... after Hawkins continued to fail, a manager who wasn't doomed to failure would have tried something else. Piniella would have. Dusty couldn't, because Hawkins was "his guy".
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 16, 2007 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It might not have worked
but I would have tried the batboy as bad as Hawkins was.  I blame Baker for not running someone else out there, but I also blame Hendry for not intervening at some point when the problem was obvious.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 16, 2007 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was even more clear...
... there was a problem, when Baker continued to run Hawkins out there for the first six weeks of 2005, when it was obvious he couldn't handle the job (three blown saves by May 6), and everyone was screaming for Dempster to be made closer during spring training that year.

Instead, Baker put Dempster in the rotation, where he sucked, and let Hawkins blow game after game.

You're right, Hendry should have intervened. If Baker pulls this sort of stuff with the Reds, the fans there will turn on him very, very quickly -- and he doesn't really have much fan backing there to begin with.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 16, 2007 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bottom line with Baker
he is not as good as what he appeared to be in 03 and not as bad as it appeared in 06.  He is a manager that does not have the instinctual feel of the game that Piniella has, and he needs a good GM to give him round pegs for round holes.  IMO, this has never been Hendry's strength and it allowed Baker's weakness to come to the forefront over time.  When the Cubs signed Hawkins, he had already failed as a closer in MN and he was doing the same with the Cubs.  Once it became obvious, the GM has got to intervene when it's clear the right parts are either not there, or they need to be used differently.

This is why I think Piniella has been so good for the Cubs.  He has the mind to understand what he has and what he needs, and IMO do a much better job of that than Hendry could do on his own.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 17, 2007 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

agree 100%
when you replace shawn estes with greg maddux, karros/choi with derrek lee and in addition having a full year of aramis at 3rd and picking up nomar at the trade deadline, you have a better team

looking back on it, i totally understand the hope people had for patterson coming back healthy in CF in '04 after his great '03 first half, but in reality resignging lofton would have made all the difference in the world. the cubs really took off after that pittsburgh trade in '03. he was such a sparkplug (plus aramis). hindsight is 20/20 i guess.

the management did have a huge effect though. the refusal to supplant hawkins as closer was ridiculous. i'll never forget latroy making the pickoff move to first and hitting the baserunners helmet.

by bikemonkey on Oct 17, 2007 12:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Scott Eyre ...
.... comments on Dusty and Piniella... he was on XM this evening a few hours before the NLCS, in part to comment on Dusty. He had a few interesting comments.  A few things of note.

First, Eyre said that he really likes both Piniella and Baker, but it seems that, at least at first, he wasn't too keen of Piniella. Eyre basically said something to the effect of him eventually really liking Piniella.

Scott acknowledged that Lou and Dusty are very different managers. As has been widely stated, Scott said that Dusty allowed the players to run the clubhouse and actually said that Dusty had no rules. Lou had to come in and do things like tell players that it was not okay for them to be playing cards 10 minutes before the game, which Eyre said was happening in 2006. It was interesting to listen to because Scott talked about how much he liked Dusty but then also pointed out the culture that Lou had to get rid of which Eyre conceded was not good.

Seeing the Cubs evolution over the course of the year, one has to assume that the improvement was, in part due to the change in professionalism and expectation.

DmL

by dmlichte on Oct 14, 2007 8:05 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I believe the Reds
will be better. Dusty's first year with a new club he has done well. Reds really don't have any starting pitching and there bullpen is really thin. It would make sense for them to trade to get pitching.
 Hey how about Votto for Marshall!!!

by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Oct 14, 2007 9:11 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

the red's really would be foolish to trade for a
pitcher.

They will have to morgage the farm to do so, and pay him.  In stone for next season they have Harang and Arroyo, Harang was as good, if not better, then Zambrano was in 2007, and Arroyo had a lot of loses, but he still pitched 200 innings, and his ERA was 4.2somthing.  His ERA inflated in a horrible stretch in late May and June, after he had pitched 110+ pitches in 4 straight starts, the last of those starts he threw 129 pitches in a CG lose.  After that, he had several starts in which his velocity wasn't going much above 85.  He was pushed back in the rotation a couple of times, and he ended the season strong.  Arroyo pitched 240 innings in 2006, and he then pitched in Japan.  It is to be expected that he would have worn down a little.

It is more then likely out of Spring Training Homer Bailey will have a spot in the rotation.  He will go through the growing pains of every young pitcher, but he will have flashes of brilliance, to go with his disastors.  

Matt Belise will likely get a spot in the rotation.  2007 was a little rough for Belise, but it was also his first season as a full time big league starter.  He did pitch really well at times.  He throughs in the low to mid 90's and tops out at 94.  He has a nice curvball.  He may flourish into a solid big league pitcher, or he may flounder, and be a once highly talnted young pitcher, with high velocity, who just never could hack it.  

The fifth spot get's muddy.  Cueto is a highly touted prospect.  He throws in the low to mid 90's, I think tops out around 95.  He has excellent command, and one of the best sliders in the minor leagues.  He also has only logged a few innings in AAA.  He is also 5'11" which makes it hard to project him as a starter over the long hull.  If he doesn't have the stamina to hold up as a starter, he could be one hell of a closer.  Krivksy is gunn shy about promoting minor leaguers.  Tom Shearn finished the season in the rotation, but he was a 30 year old rookie, and he can't be viewed as a serious long term option for the rotation.  Elizardo Rameriz had some sucess in 2006, before a shoulder injury, which he also battled for much of last year, caused problems.  I expect him to need surgery at some point.  Matt Maloney, who the Red's recieved from Philley for Lohse, is a left hander who tops out at about 88 or so, but has an excellent curveball.  Phil Dumatrait probably pitched himself out of consideration, if not a Red's uniform, with his 2007 performance.  Mike Gosling has a history of starting in the minor leagues, but he is a marginal pitcher at best.  

Really the Red's rotation could become very good in a couple of years.  If Arroyo doesn't decline to quickly, it is concievable that Bailey, Harang, Cueto, and Arroyo, could be quite a force in 2009 or 2010.  

The bullpen is still a mess.  Dave Weathers and Jared Burton are the only two pitchers down there, who Dusty will beable to turn to with confidence.  There are a number of young relievers with talent though.  Bill Bray, received in the Lopez Kearns trade, is a hard throwing lefty, who some have projected as a closer.  He lost much of 2007 to a broken finger in Spring Training, then a sore shoulder in June, when he started to build arm strength.  Marcus McBeth, who recently converted from an outfielder, is a quailty prospect.  He has excellent AAA, he struggled in the big leagues this season, but if he gains some confidence, he could be an excellent setup man.  Brad Salmon is in his late 20's and made his big league debut last season.  His minor league development may have been hindered because he was drafted as a starting pitcher, and really did not pitch well until he was moved to the bullpen.  He throw's hard.  Jon Coutlangus had a decent ERA, but a WHIP over 1.5 in his Rockie season.  He is a lefty, who struggles against left handers, if he can't improve his WHIP it is difficult to project him as a sucesful reliever pitcher.

by stevegoodman on Oct 15, 2007 1:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Homer Bailey
If I am on of the guys that gives advice to Homer Bailey, I am telling him to find a way off of the Reds as fast as possible.   He's young and Dusty's gonna frag his arm.  And it does not bode well for Belisle as well.   We might see a year or two out of these guys, but their longer term career has pretty much been ruined.

by frustratedfan on Oct 15, 2007 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

TBS Coverage
We've been blasting the bad of TBS so I just wanted to give some props for the NLCS here. Watching the game over the past few innings they've done a great job capturing the atmosphere at Coors Field. The visuals have been great (though having HDTV is a benefit, too). I also found it very interesting that during the pitching change, when Livan was lifted mid inning, they didn't go to a commercial break but instead stayed with Caray, Brenly and Gwynn. When is the last time anyone saw FOX or ESPN forgo an opportunity to make a few bucks off of a commercial?

TBS certainly isn't perfect but I've enjoyed their production thus far tonight (even tough someone walked right behind Chip when the camera was fixed on the three broadcasters).

DmL

by dmlichte on Oct 14, 2007 9:50 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

huh
there is still baseball being played???
Here comes the nasty leftie to shut it down in the 9th......Clay Rapada!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Oct 15, 2007 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree.
As annoying as the Frank TV commercials are, they only take place between innings.  They only do one "drop-in" for it during the game.  They have done a good job of concentrating on the game.  They actually announce who is currently pitching and batting.  ESPN would probably use at least one inning per game to hype the Big Ten Network or something.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Oct 15, 2007 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Poor Reds fans
Giants fans tried to tell us what kind of nightmare on wheels Dusty was after he left San Francisco. We didn't listen. At first. Dusty will do fine until about August, when his efforts to be clever instead of relying on stats blows up in his face for the 50th time.

by SouthsideCub on Oct 15, 2007 10:46 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Best post I read on Red Reporter...
COMMENT: "how does he handle the bullpen?"

REPLY: "doesn't matter, we don't have one!"  

HAHAHAHA!  

by eamuscatuli1881 on Oct 15, 2007 12:21 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Cubs postseason...
I know anything can happen in the postseason, but does anyone here believe the Cubs belong in the same league as the Red Sox, Indians or Rockies?

Watching these games just makes me shake my head and realize how bad we are fundamentals.  For example, look how many 2-out runs Cleveland has scored so far. We should be glad our misery ended early.

"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse

by ronsanto10 on Oct 15, 2007 1:24 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree
If we do an honest introspection stepping aside from being mere fan boys/cheer leaders we can see that our team is not on the same level as the other teams in the post season. I think we are not even one level down but two three levels down in several areas.

We made the baby backs look completely unbeatable by being under prepared or more so unprepared, basic lack of fundamentals etc etc.

by cubsnlinux on Oct 15, 2007 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

-sigh -
Without a doubt, I agree 100%.

Cubs not in the same league with the NLCS teams left.

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Oct 15, 2007 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll Agree With...
...not being in the class of the ALCS, but I watch the NLCS and think 1) we did very well against Colorado, 2) how in the world did AZ win, let alone sweep, the NLDS?
PERRY!!!!

by Goat Whisperer on Oct 15, 2007 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ha.
..to all of you who said Dusty would never manage again. I am here to say that Dusty will torment the Cubs just like so many other ex-Cubs have done. It won't be a surprise at all if the Cubs are looking up in the standings at the Reds in September '08.
Well, sometimes nothin is a real cool hand.

by wicubfan on Oct 15, 2007 1:25 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Dream on
The Reds pitching staff and their "base clogging" lineup will keep that from happening.

by Itchy on Oct 16, 2007 12:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

why don't you make this
wonderful prediction your signature so we can all have something to laugh at throughout the coming season.  :-(

In Dusty I never did trusty!

I can't wait for 2008!

by LAcarl519 on Oct 17, 2007 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Poor Aaron Harang
He's gonna have to throw about 400 innings next year...
"It's a pier 9 brawl!..."

by rrobinson on Oct 15, 2007 1:28 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

This board is D.E.D. dead
The most hated Cubs manager in 50 years takes a job with a division rival and 48 post are all Cubs Fans can muster?

I wonder how many people threw themselves off bridges after Game 3?

Enjoy the break guys.

I hope Cuban can buy A-Rod and we should see some fun on this board once again.

Till then.

by whatiswrongwithlarussa on Oct 15, 2007 3:53 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Don't be surprised if the Reds
make a little noise next year, especially if they add some pitching.

Great American Ballpark is actually the perfect place for Dusty to manage.  It is a hitter friendly (hack away) ballpark, which requires little thought process regarding offensive strategy.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Oct 16, 2007 12:43 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The Cubs mental awareness
declined every year under "Mr Toothpick."  You can blame it on injuries all you want, but Dusty never got angry or had any accountability when the team made dumb mental errors (throwing, running, catching, missing cut off men, etc...).

It aggravated me as a Cub fan to see this team show less fire and heart every year.  The worst part was the Dusty press conferences after the game where he took no blame and didn't say he would change things (something Lou always did as the Cubs were stuck in the mud, making bad plays in the early part of '07).

I am thrilled to have Dusty in our division as I think his player friendly clubhouse will wear thin quickly.  The best record for the Dusty-Reds will be 2008, but it will all be based on the success of how far Harang, Arroyo and Bailey take him.  Bad fielding and bad execution will grow worse with every season Dusty is at the helm.  The man will never change...

I can't wait for 2008!

by LAcarl519 on Oct 17, 2007 9:33 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It will be interesting...
... to see how many current Reds coaches are retained. Dick Pole, who was Baker's bench coach with the Cubs (and I never did figure out what he did other than sit on the bench next to Dusty), is the current Reds pitching coach and is likely to be retained in that role, as he was also Baker's pitching coach in SF from 1993-97.

If Baker stays true to form, the rest of the staff will be dismissed and he'll bring in some of his old buddies like Sonny Jackson and Gene Clines, and maybe even ol' Wavin' Wendell.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Oct 18, 2007 7:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Cubs mental awareness......
Great post....I couldn't say it any better... especially your statement that "it aggravated me as a Cub fan to see this team show less fire and heart every year."
Hey Lou, we're long overdue.

by deadcatbounce on Oct 18, 2007 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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