Good News/Bad News Day

by Al Yellon on Nov 21, 2007 8:30 AM CST in Chicago Cubs News

Good news: the Cubs' offseason plans are not going to change with the departure of John McDonough.

Bad news (from the same link): the Cubs are talking to Kaz Matsui. Matsui's not a terrible player, but this makes sense ONLY if they intend to play him at SS and make Ryan Theriot the top infield utility player. That'd be an upgrade. It also may make sense as a lure to Kosuke Fukudome to come to the Cubs (the same link also says Fukudome will be meeting with his US-based agent next week).

Good news: the Brewers are about to sign Jason Kendall, which ought to make Cub baserunners salivate.

Bad news: Kerry Wood may be considering signing elsewhere, although that article by Paul Sullivan contains no specifics, only speculation that he might go to the Red Sox, a rumor that's been around for a couple of weeks now. It also quotes Jim Hendry:

"Kerry is getting a lot of action around the industry," Hendry said. "We're hopeful he'll want to remain a Cub. I believe, probably before we get to the winter meetings [Dec. 3], this will be brought to a conclusion. We certainly would like to have him back, and hopefully it'll work out."

Get it done, Jim.

Good news: it's Thanksgiving tomorrow. To every one of you, enjoy Thanksgiving with your family, or wherever you may be.

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Comments

Matsui

I have been thinking more about the Matsui situation, and I have come to be fairly positive and I hope we sign him.

In essence, he would replace Fotnenot on the roster, which it is hard to argue would not be an upgrade. Let Matsui and Theriot compete for playing time, while backing up DeRosa as he moves around the field as the super back up.

I would love to get a front line SS, but I just don't see any chance of that. And, after seeing what it cost the Sox to bring in Cabrera, I am perfectly comfortable with Matsui and Theriot.

I imagine Cedeno will be traded. I can imagine him eventually developing into a decent ML shortstop, but I don't see that happening without some more growing pains, and that isn't something the Cubs can afford. I imagine that if nothing else, we could get a comparable prospect a rung lower in his development that might pay off.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Nov 21, 2007 8:21 AM CST reply actions

I have a hard time believing

that the Cubs would bring in Matsui at $5M a year just to compete with Theriot. I also have a hard time believing that he would be anything other than a lead-off or #2 hitter.

by NO100 on Nov 21, 2007 9:12 AM CST up reply actions

Why?

I don't see Lou Piniella all of a sudden caring about annual salaries when it comes to deciding playing time. This is the same argument that folks made a year ago regarding Izturis and Theriot, and we all know how that played out.

I see two big reasons why additional middle infield help is good:

Theriot certainly seemed to tire as the season went on and having someone who he could either split time with (if he is headed towards being a good MLer) or someone he could backup (if he is destined for that role) seems logical.
With DeRosa as your super backup, particularly since he may end up as a primary backup/platoon partner if Pie doesn't turn it up against LHP, then there figure to be many games in which your 2B is either at 3B or RF, again predicating the need for ~3 guys who could start up the middle on your team.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Nov 21, 2007 9:19 AM CST up reply actions

I don't think that

Piniella would care about salaries either, but I do think that if Matsui is signed, it's an indication that the Cubs feel that he's value added. I would hope that Hendry and Piniella are talking about what the team's needs are and then acquiring talent that meets those needs. To me, I can't see the Cubs saying, "I think we need another middle infielder just to compete and let's commit to $15M over 3 years for that." I just don't see it. They already have Cedeno for that at the league minimum.

If Matusi is brought in, I think that's an indication that the Cubs feel they need to upgrade at a starting middle infield position. Teams just don't commit $5M per with the intention of making him a backup.

Izturis was a different situation than this would be. It was an attempt to get something for Maddux. Matsui is an intentional acquisition.

by NO100 on Nov 21, 2007 9:33 AM CST up reply actions

Why would Matsui

be willing to come to the Cubs as a part time player when the Rockies (and possibly other teams) would sign him to play every day? I can't see him coming to the Cubs unless he expects to be playing every day.

by SantoHOF on Nov 21, 2007 11:06 AM CST up reply actions

I can't see Piniella and Hendry

not being on the same page at this point. Piniella has made it clear (and I agree) that they need to get more speed, OBP and some pop from the left side. Matsui gives you the speed part and they will look for the other two from trying to land Fukudome.

5 mil may seem like a lot, but if you want all the pieces you need, you have to pay what the market will bear. IMO, Cedeno is not a guy Piniella trusts, and Matsui is just a much smarter player and baserunner.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Nov 21, 2007 11:08 AM CST up reply actions

My concern with Matsui

is the Coors factor with his numbers. After leaving the Mets, he suddenly turned things around. A lot of people don't realize that Coors helps out the little guys as well as the boppers, because of the vast outfield, balls drop in more often.

However, if getting Matsui would make Fukudome more comfortable about being here, and if it eventually leads to his signing, I'm all for it.

Cubs chances in '08? Beats the FUK-U-DO-ME!

by Hugest Canadian Cubs Fan on Nov 21, 2007 9:37 AM CST up reply actions

Except

Infante is the Fontenot replacement. I'm still puzzled by the Matsui interest. He showed he's not a good shortstop. Playing him at 2nd and moving DeRosa to RF doesn't seem like a good move to me. I'm wondering if Hendry is just keeping Matsui out there in case everything else falls apart.

by rlpete on Nov 21, 2007 9:44 AM CST up reply actions

I have this feeling

That Cedeno when he hits about 30 years will become a great ball player. That being said unless he wins the spot this spring he is gone. I just dont think Lou wants him anyways

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer

by Hammer on Nov 21, 2007 8:40 AM CST reply actions

A Couple thoughts,

and a Happy Thanksgiving to all -

First, I really like and admire Kerry Wood. However, if he is asking for a multiple year deal, and "Rivera" money. Forget it! To acquiesce to this is foolish based on the injury track record. I could easily see him inking a lucrative deal, and then go through the same old "Woody" routine - causing him to miss part or all of the season. Move on already, guys.

Secondly, Matsui is proven not to be a shortstop anymore. At least, he has not been tried as one since his very bad days in a Mets uniform. Do you really want Mark DeRosa in RF most of the time?

I sure don't.

Personally, unless a real upgrade happens at the SS position, I'm willing to see how the combo of Theriot and DeRo do for a whole year - with Cedeno in the mix as a sub - if he first takes a written baseball 101 test.

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Nov 21, 2007 8:54 AM CST reply actions

I haven't seen...

... any evidence of Wood asking for "Rivera-type money".

Rivera's getting $15m a year. Wood's asking for about 1/3 of that -- which is less than Kyle Farnsworth is getting for sucking as Rivera's setup man.

I say Wood's worth it. He had no health issues after returning in August, and was lights-out in 18 of his 22 appearances.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Nov 21, 2007 8:58 AM CST up reply actions

Again, I'm not sure

he is worth $5-$6 MM a year in a multi-year deal.

One year, fine.

But, "fool me once..."

Remember Al, the guy got hurt in his own hot tub last year!

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Nov 21, 2007 9:54 AM CST up reply actions

But...

... the hot tub thing turned out to be a joke, more than anything that really bothered him. It made no difference in his recovery.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Nov 21, 2007 10:01 AM CST up reply actions

I'm in the minority

but I'm also not in the "Sign Wood now" camp. True, he wasn't hurt last year for his half-season but he was also babied. Piniella didn't use him in back-to-back games. I'm not sure how much he even warmed up in back-to-back games. Lou also gave him a lot of advance warning when he was going to pitch so Wood could probably warm up. He rarely was brought in mid-inning.

Wood wants to be paid like a true set-up man. I'm not sure yet if he can handle that load. No one knows whether he can pitch in 40-50 much less the 60-70 that someone Howry pitches. A contract with some incentives is fine but a 2 year/$10 Mil guaranteed contract is not much of a hometown discount. I don't think Hendry needs to rush out and sign Wood to that deal.

by rlpete on Nov 21, 2007 10:19 AM CST up reply actions

I absolutely agree

The Cubs are certainly not going to find a better relief pitcher on the open market. Wood was really lights out in most of his appearances last year, and I think he'll be able to stay healthy as a reliever.

Also, he's a fan favorite and for good reason. Hendry, please re-sign him.

by John Q Freejazz on Nov 21, 2007 10:27 AM CST up reply actions

I'm not trying to be a pain

but when you say you "think he'll be able to stay healthy", isn't it really you "hope he'll be able to stay healthy"? I've seen no evidence that shows that Wood will be able to handle a full season at a real relief pitcher's load. I just don't see the rush to sign him to this "bargain" contract.

by rlpete on Nov 21, 2007 10:32 AM CST up reply actions

Yes and no

Yes, I certainly hope he'll be able to stay healthy.

But for this comeback, he worked hard on conditioning (one obvious example is his significant weight loss) to put himself in the best possible shape to remain healthy. There is also a history of injury-plagued starters going on to have successful careers as relievers. Yes, it is a risk, but I think it's worth it.

by John Q Freejazz on Nov 21, 2007 10:59 AM CST up reply actions

Reply...

"and I think he'll be able to stay healthy as a reliever."

why do you think this?

what basis do you have that he would stay healthy, when he has had nothing but injury re-lapse since 2003?

I am glad you do not hold my money.

The facts are that he declined surgery and was at the end of the line with his arm when, miracle of miracles, his arm is fine when he gives it a final shot in ST.

We really don't know how he will respond to greater stress in back to back appearances. IS it worth the risk? Hell yes.

IS it worth a muti-year deal, again? No.

The probability that he gets in jured again, based on what we DO know is favorable.

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Nov 21, 2007 10:39 AM CST up reply actions

Fair enough

Points taken. (See my above post.)

I think he's in better shape now and in a better position to handle his arm.

W/r/t his health, yes, re-signing him carries some risk with it. But, I'm in strong favor of dealing with the risk, the primary reason being that in most of his relief appearances this year he looked downright ridiculous, especially towards the end when he was throwing 98mph heaters and hard breaking sliders. One fond memory is of the game against the Marlins towards the end of the year in which he came in with the bases loaded and nobody out. Struck out the first batter quickly and then got the next batter to ground into a double play. Furthermore, he's been with the papa Cubbies since 1998, was with them in the playoffs 3 times (btw, who's the last Cub to have been in the playoffs thrice?), is a great guy and a fan favorite (including this fan, if you couldn't already tell :-)).

by John Q Freejazz on Nov 21, 2007 11:05 AM CST up reply actions

Well, you wear your affection

on your sleeve. ;-)

Sure, I completely empathize w/your sentiments. I think the world of him. I really do.

I saw several pretty rough outings last year, too.

I just would not think it is a smart business move to go multi-year big money based on the above. IF he wants a fair base, and incentives that would bring him up to what the "market" is, or better, than fine.

Will he elect to stay where his home is now, based on this type of deal? We'll soon see. The Cubs have been paying him for a number of years, BIG MONEY, to rehab, or rest. Time for the club to get more than a few months of value from the player.

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Nov 21, 2007 11:41 AM CST up reply actions

So, you're assuming that...

Cedeno knows how to write?

That's a big assumption.

Ed Lynch is STILL on the Cubs payroll, as our D-Backs scout in Phoenix. Lynch attends all 81 D-Back home games with a notepad in hand. Really paid off for us!

by SackMan on Nov 21, 2007 10:26 AM CST up reply actions

Come on

Don't the Iowa Cubs or the Peoria Cubs need a set-up man? Woody will fill that role nicely.

If the Cubs are smart, they will show Woody and "The Employee" the door and move on.

by salparadise23 on Nov 21, 2007 12:26 PM CST up reply actions

Wood's a goner.

(without reading the article - Will never read a Sullivan article ever again)That's what my gut is telling me. To Wood's credit, he's been loyal to the Cubs up to now, but at his age and his health record, this could very well be his best opportunity for his maximum contract, of his career.

I'm sure the sticking point with him right now is number of years. The Cubs are probably only willing to go 2 years while Wood is feeling around for a 3 year deal and I'm sure he'll get it. My prediction is he'll sign a 3 year $17 Million deal somewhere, but not with the Cubbers. He'd be crazy not to see his value is, at this point of his career and not to take it.

Thanks for the memory Kerry.

by lemon20pie on Nov 21, 2007 2:00 PM CST up reply actions

Correct me if i'm wrong....

But wasn't the best opportunity of Wood's career for a maximum contract when we gave him a 3 year $32.5 Million (PLUS $13.75 Million option) contract after '03?

The fact that we stuck with him through all of his injuries and still gave him a chance this year should mean a lot when it comes to the negotiating table. But of course, that's never the case, since this is a business. I wish that more players were better than that, and I hope (and think) that Wood is.

by steinmer on Nov 21, 2007 3:03 PM CST up reply actions

I agree........

I believe that Woody should let his conscience be his guide, in regards to whether he remains a Cub.

Hey Lou, we're long overdue.

by deadcatbounce on Nov 21, 2007 8:08 PM CST up reply actions

Jason Kendall

"Good news: the Brewers are about to sign Jason Kendall, which ought to make Cub baserunners salivate."

Johnny Estrada had to have been worse at throwing out runners last year than Kendall. The article says Estrada threw out 6 of 79 for a 7.6% rate. I'm not sure what Kendall's was, but 7.6% is crap.

Kendall's a defensive upgrade over Estrada last year. Next year will be a different question though if Estrada comes back healthy after having the bone spur removed from his throwing elbow.

"Dad gum right this games gonna be played under protest. . . I guarantee this is gonna be one protest that's upheld." --Hawk Harrelson, 6/24/07

by RynoHoF on Nov 21, 2007 9:13 AM CST reply actions

Kendall...

... threw out 5 of 57 attempts with the Cubs and 15 of 74 with Oakland, total 20 of 131.

Incidentally, Estrada was 11 for 84.

Both sucked.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Nov 21, 2007 9:22 AM CST up reply actions

I love the fact that the Brewers are going

to think Kendall is an upgrade defensively!!!

Heck, I am amost willing to bet BigZ gets one or two stolen bases this year!

Well......I guess I should be 'BigZ (5th place) Cy'

by BigZ 4 Cy on Nov 21, 2007 10:03 AM CST up reply actions

Wood...

until he shows he can stay healthy an ENTIRE SEASON in the bullpen, he's not worth a big investment.

I agree with offering him an incentive-laden deal with a substantial pay raise from last season, but just not bank breaking enough so it keeps them from a few other moves.

Cubs chances in '08? Beats the FUK-U-DO-ME!

by Hugest Canadian Cubs Fan on Nov 21, 2007 9:40 AM CST reply actions

I agree...

Until Wood shows he can do all the things a legit set-up man goes through, he's not worth 2/10 guaranteed.

I think Wood truly wants to stay here and will take something like 2/7 - 7.5 plus incentives. If the Red Sox want to sign him for 5 mil, ok then.

You ARE freaking out MAN!

by crw89 on Nov 21, 2007 11:33 AM CST up reply actions

Kaz Matsui

I know there isn't a ton of options this off-season, but are we really going to spend $5 million a year on an average infielder? I rather have royce clayton or mark loretta for a year. Or look into tad iguchi, i think those 3 are still available.

also, although theriot did wear down maybe he needed a year for his body to get use to the long season. theriot and derosa should be our starters.

by slocs55 on Nov 21, 2007 9:57 AM CST reply actions

Kazyan Matsiot

2007 Splits
KM v. RHP .291/.348/.409
KM v. LHP .271/.311/.386
RT v. RHP .260/.318/.316
RT v. LHP .286/.353/.444

by DGU on Nov 21, 2007 10:43 AM CST reply actions

Kazyan Matsiot FP Comparison - SS

FP lgFP RFg lgRFg

RT SS 2007
FP lgFP RFg lgRFg
.980 .975 3.57 4.00

KM SS 2005
FP lgFP RFg lgRFg
.956 .973 4.52 3.94

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Nov 21, 2007 10:55 AM CST reply actions

DeRo at SS

I pulled DeRo's career SS stats from Baseball Reference (http://www.baseball-reference.com/d/derosma01.shtml). Since 2005 represents virtually all of KazMat's ML SS time, and 2007 is Riot's virtual SS career, maybe we can compare -- though DeRo didn't have the advantage of playing one position every day.

FP = .974
lgFP = .970
RFg = 3.23
lgRFg = 3.97

This shows that DeRo doesn't have as much range as the other two (which is somewhat negated by a high K pitching staff), but that he is much more sure-handed than KazMat (so is Riot), and about as sure-handed as Riot. Riot is also below league average range-wise (does this also reflect a high K pitching staff?), while KazMat is better than average.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Nov 21, 2007 12:08 PM CST up reply actions

Apparently the Cubs are looking at Matsui...

...as a left-handed bench guy who can play the infield. In that case, you're definately overpaying for what you're getting, but so long as the contract isn't overly long and you don't promise him anything... I can live with that, I guess.

Yeah, a ringing endorsement.

Our favorite site, by the way, says that the A's are seriously considering a fire sale. Just when I was starting to get bored with this offseason. Someone's going to lose their job over this.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Nov 21, 2007 11:03 AM CST reply actions

That would be a waste of money.

How many "bench" players to you need to overpay?

You want a left-handed bat on the bench to play middle infield? Then, use Fontenot.

Ed Lynch is STILL on the Cubs payroll, as our D-Backs scout in Phoenix. Lynch attends all 81 D-Back home games with a notepad in hand. Really paid off for us!

by SackMan on Nov 21, 2007 11:26 AM CST up reply actions

You're absolutely right that...

...it would be a "waste" of money.

But, and this is key here, Mike Fontenot can't play shortstop, so it's hard to say that it's a one-for-one comparison.

The fact of the matter is, the Cubs are (purportedly) raising payroll in a very shallow free agent market; money will be spent poorly, and a lot of it will go to players who don't strictly deserve it. I'm vaugelly comfortable with this, though, so long as there's some benefit to the ballclub.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Nov 21, 2007 11:43 AM CST up reply actions

And the other question is -

Would you rather waste money when you are the Cubs or waste trade chips? Given the amount of $ the Cubs take in, I would think the former is better than the latter.

by DGU on Nov 21, 2007 11:50 AM CST up reply actions

Very True.

I totally agree that between dollars and prospects; in our case prospects are the scarcer commodity. I can't say I'm enthusiastic about Matsui, but if he fits into a plan that I'm not totally seeing- fine.

Personally, I don't let salary figures disturb me too much. Like everyone, I'd hate to see us be handcuffed, now or in the future, but the Cubs are a high revenue team. I don't believe we have too much to worry about even with our roster of back loaded contracts, but then, what do I know.

Well, I do know that MLBs revenue is growing even faster than player salaries. Here's a link that talks about that: http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/023978.php

My impression generally is that reporters (a lot of the time) emphasize salary $s more than necessary- for the sensationalistic value. I am much happier with the players getting stupidly rich than the owners profiting inordinately.

"Baseball is like church- many attend, few understand." ~ Leo Durocher

by The Lip on Nov 21, 2007 4:53 PM CST up reply actions

theriot and kaz

looking at their splits it further confirms i rather have theriot. although kaz has a better average, their on-base percentage are pretty close and ryan is far superior defensivly. lets use that money to get fukudome.

the cubs need to stop making a lot of minimal upgrades, we need to decide where we are set and look to make changes that are going to have a larger impact.

by slocs55 on Nov 21, 2007 11:49 AM CST reply actions

Why not both?

Looking at their splits, I think (setting defense aside for a minute) it sure would be nice if Kaz could play against Right Handed Pitchers and Theriot against Left Handed Pitchers.

But we can't put aside the defense question for long. That is the big unanswered question for me. I appreciate the 2005 defensive stats, but there have been people on this board arguing Matsui was injured and had limited mobility and had to relearn fielding on real grass, etc. So, if he's healthy and if he's more mobile and if he's learned what he needs to learn, he could be better. I don't know the answer to that question, but I assume Hendry has scouted and determined an answer.

As for the "minimal upgrades" - might as well do those while we wait for Fukudome to weigh his options. The bigger changes are coming. Hendry probably has dozens of irons in the fire. We may not have even heard a thing about the one that will actually happen next. Had anyone heard anything about Orlando Cabrera being tradeable until it happened?

by DGU on Nov 21, 2007 11:59 AM CST up reply actions

Who's our backup catcher?

Assuming Soto is the everyday starter...I guess I'm drawing a blank.

Dan

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Nov 21, 2007 1:00 PM CST reply actions

You should be drawing...

... a Blanco.

by DGU on Nov 21, 2007 1:02 PM CST up reply actions

Do we have confirmation that Blanco...

...can still stand? I seriously still cannot believe him making it through a full season even as a backup at this point. I'm expecting Koyie Hill to see a not insignificant amount of playing time at the majors.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Nov 21, 2007 1:19 PM CST up reply actions

They build a

catcher's stool for blanco.

Its a little seat on wheels.

Its the "Sandy Alomar Crouch-Aid"

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Nov 21, 2007 3:59 PM CST up reply actions

Nice

Very well done. Set up nicely for you but still very well done.

Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. -- Lee Constantine Elia, 1983.

by krummy12 on Nov 21, 2007 4:11 PM CST up reply actions

Thanks.

It means alot.

Every 30 or 40 posts...

;-)

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Nov 21, 2007 4:14 PM CST up reply actions

One Minnesotan's take

Sign Wood. Use him smartly (closer or late-inning short setup) and keep a good eye on him health-wise. He's a lower cost alternative to the "talent" out there.

Matsui and Theriot platooning isn't a bad thing. Having one or the other as a hole card is not a bad thing either. And playing a lot more day games still burns players out, although not as much as back in the 1969 "Leo the Lip" era.

Sign Fukudome and put him in RF, give Pie lots of attention in the batting cages over the winter and in ST. And be prepared to find a workable alternative if he doesn't get some plate discipline, but give the guy a serious chance first.

And run on Jason Kendall whenever the opportunity exists.

by MN exile on Nov 21, 2007 1:11 PM CST reply actions

There is nothing cheap about Kerry Wood.

He costs you five million dollars and he's not a sure bet to outproduce Billy Petrick, who makes the league minimum. Kerry Wood is a luxury who, if he gets resigned, will be sought by the Cubs more for jersey sales than for actual need at the position.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Nov 21, 2007 1:14 PM CST up reply actions

Another take

I couldn't imagine Yankees fans treating lifelong Yanks the same as some of us are treating Kerry. In fact, even my Yankees fan friend wants Wood to remain a Cub...unless he becomes a Yankee.

There are few sure bets in this game, and I like Petrick's potential, but Wood pitched the most dominant game in the history of baseball, helped this team make it to three playoffs, and still has wicked stuff. That's got to be worth something.

by John Q Freejazz on Nov 21, 2007 2:21 PM CST up reply actions

And if those lifelong Yankees...

spent multiple seasons on the DL and were continually unable to fulfill their amazing promise due to those injuries, I don't think the Yankees fans would have the same feelings.

The two situations are completely different: these lifelong Yankees have had years and years of good health and good fortune (and several championships). Wood has had a few very nice moments scattered among years and years of bad health and bad fortune.

Would I prefer to keep Wood a Cub? Sure, but not if it means paying him 3 years, $15 million of guaranteed money. The fact is he just hasn't shown he's worth that yet.

by SouthernCub on Nov 21, 2007 3:43 PM CST up reply actions

100% Agreed

based on my above (and others) arguments.

But this?:

"Wood pitched the most dominant game in the history of baseball..."

I know you love Kerry, but this is a bit of a stretch.

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Nov 21, 2007 4:02 PM CST up reply actions

It's absolutely NOT a stretch

GMAB. 20 K's and if it wasn't for another overhyped Cubs prospect at 3B, Wood has a no hitter and a hbp to Biggio away from a perfect game.

Biggio himself is on record as saying that's the most dominating pitching performance.

by lemon20pie on Nov 21, 2007 4:20 PM CST up reply actions

You're too young

to remember Sandy Koufax, then.

It is a stretch.

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Nov 21, 2007 4:58 PM CST up reply actions

Are you referring to Koufax'

Perfect game against the 72-90 Cubbies where he struck out 14?

It is absolutely not a stretch to say that Wood's 20 K 1 hit performance against the eventual Division Winning Astros who finished 102-60, as the most dominant performance. It's your opinion that Koufax perfect game was more dominant, but certainly not a stretch. Topic was "most dominant performance".

Have you seen Wood's 20 k game?

by lemon20pie on Nov 21, 2007 5:13 PM CST up reply actions

I'm in the "most dominant" camp

The fact that he K'd 20 guys alone puts it near the top of the list - then add the fact that it was a one hitter against an incredible offensive team and he gets my vote.

I've seen some dominating pitching in my day - Clemens, the Unit, Nolan Ryan, Ron Guidry, Rivera, Santana, Maddux... but no game I've seen comes close to just how helpless Woody made Houston look that day.

Any perfect game is impressive, but to say that a 14 K performance against a miserably bad lineup is THE MOST dominant game ever is silly. Great? Yes. Koufax one of the best ever? Absolutely. But The Most dominant? This was an 8th place team. Just look at the lineup loaded with minor league call-ups he faced that day - Don Young (.057), Glenn Beckert (.239), Byron Browne (.000), Chris Crug (.201), Don Kessinger (.201), and Bob Hendly (.000). Sure he had Santo, Banks, and Williams, but the rest of the lineup was puff.

Woody faced a 100 win team loaded with solid big league stars. Biggio (.325), Bell (.314), Bagwell (.304), Howell (.289), Alou (.312), and Ausmus and Gutierrez who both had solid years. That lineup would give most pitchers fits and Woody made them look ridiculous.

This is the great thing about baseball though, comparing memories and eras. It's all about perspective - those of us who are old enough remember Koufax making the Cubs look stupid, some of us will recall Woody out there shutting down a divisional rival. I guess there is no right or wrong answer, but you know where my vote goes.

by HectorVillanueva on Nov 21, 2007 7:10 PM CST up reply actions

Change the wording to...

"Wood pitched one of the most dominant games in the history of baseball..."

...and you'd get my vote. With all due respect to "Big Train", Feller, Koufax, Gibson, Ryan, et al, it really was an amazing game. I'm sure Biggio, Bagwell, and the rest of the Astros would agree.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Nov 21, 2007 5:47 PM CST up reply actions

Not at all a stretch actually...

Bill James, for example, rated it the most dominant game ever.

When you consider that he struck out 20 and only gave up 9 balls in play and none left the infield, it's actually not a stretch at all.

For confirmation that it's not just a homer fan's opinion, see these websites, all of which suggest it might be the most dominant performance ever:

http://www.411mania.com/sports/mlb/56121
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerry_Wood
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/03/sports/playmagazine/0603play-wood.html?_r=1&ref=sports&ore f=slogin
http://www.astrosdaily.com/history/1998/timeline.html

by SouthernCub on Nov 21, 2007 6:20 PM CST up reply actions

Again, not absolutes...

"Topic was "most dominant performance"

Its a 100+ year old game.

I saw the game.

It was dominating performance - but I as well could agree with "one of the most..."

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Nov 21, 2007 6:27 PM CST up reply actions

Then it's not a stretch...

many experts consider it the most dominant. Therefore it's not really a stretch to agree with them.

You seemed to suggest that there were better games with your statements. I'd say it's more of a stretch to suggest there is a more dominant performance.

In any case, it's a moot issue. He's not that pitcher anymore.

by SouthernCub on Nov 21, 2007 8:34 PM CST up reply actions

Agreed.

Chiming in a bit late, I was at that game. I have never seen a pitcher as locked-in dominant as Wood was that day. Not only did he strike out 20, he didn't walk anyone, and threw 122 pitches, 84 for strikes. Had Kevin Orie's bobble of Ricky Gutierrez' grounder happened in the 7th inning instead of the 2nd, it would have been a no-hitter, too.

Is Wood that sort of pitcher now? Not as a starter, he's not. But as a reliever, I believe he can be. He made 22 appearances last year. He allowed runs in four of them. In the other 18, covering 21.2 innings, he allowed eight hits, walked nine, and struck out 23 (that's all but one of his season strikeouts, implying that when he didn't have his strikeout command, he was hittable). There were plenty of relievers -- Francisco Cordero a good example -- who, when they got hit, they got pounded.

Wood CAN be a dominant closer. Some other team might give him the chance to do this. I hope the Cubs do it first.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Nov 22, 2007 9:50 AM CST up reply actions

platooning ss?

the possibility of platooning theriot and kaz at short is being talked about like kaz is going to be free. listening to steve stone it is very apparent that a lot of the big contracts the cubs have are back loaded. when i said we need to stop making minimal changes I meant we need to better weigh the money paid to the talent obtained. is kaz really going to get us where we want to be?

also, any news on hank white and his health?

by slocs55 on Nov 21, 2007 1:40 PM CST reply actions

if they want to spend more money

let em.

Kevin Hart Watch: IP: 11 K: 13 ERA: 0.82 WHIP: 1.00 K/BB: 3.25 a productive farm system is a wonderful thing.

by kylejo on Nov 21, 2007 6:00 PM CST up reply actions

Josh Hamilton available

According to ESPN the Reds are so sure that Jay Bruce (or unsure of Hamiltons longevity in MLB) is ready, that they're taking offers on Hamilton.

by lemon20pie on Nov 21, 2007 2:43 PM CST reply actions

Hamilton makes sense for the Cubs

as a guy who can play both CF and RF and whose negatives (health concerns) are mitigated as long as the Cubs keep Murton around as a backup. Maybe the fact that the Cubs helped the Reds acquire Hamilton will ease the difficulty of trading a potential star (like Hamilton) within the division.

by DGU on Nov 21, 2007 3:21 PM CST up reply actions

I'm not an expert

but I have seen comments that there are concerns that Hamilton is always going to have health problems due to the drug addiction. He was a pretty heavy user for quite a few years.

by rlpete on Nov 21, 2007 5:16 PM CST up reply actions

Huh??

That is absolute non sense.

by lemon20pie on Nov 21, 2007 5:24 PM CST up reply actions

And I'd take

Church over Hamilton.

by rlpete on Nov 21, 2007 5:23 PM CST up reply actions

Refresh my memory...

IIRC, the Cubs selected Hamilton in the Rule 5 draft from the DEVIL Rays and then sent him to the Reds. Who did we get from the Reds?

I remember scratching my head at the time, wondering why the Cubs wouldn't just keep him. Even with all his drug problems, I spent enough time down in St. Pete during spring training to know that there was a chance he'd turn things around - just wasn't gonna happen in the Rays organization.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Nov 21, 2007 5:54 PM CST up reply actions

ha

i think what we got for him was just straight cash. id love to have him back. obvious ability, more power and speed than murton, strong arm perfect for right field. couldnt cost a whole ton. sign him up!

Kevin Hart Watch: IP: 11 K: 13 ERA: 0.82 WHIP: 1.00 K/BB: 3.25 a productive farm system is a wonderful thing.

by kylejo on Nov 21, 2007 6:02 PM CST up reply actions

For Hamilton to stay with the Cubs

He would've had to stay on the Cubs active roster for the entire season, which at the time I could understand but in hindsight knowing the clutter of OF's the Cub had last year like specifically Cliff Floyd, the Cubs should've taken that chance.

by lemon20pie on Nov 21, 2007 6:05 PM CST up reply actions

pods???

just wondering?

WhErE's My CuBs?!?!

by tbizzle83 on Nov 21, 2007 3:12 PM CST reply actions

oh my gosh

please no.

Kevin Hart Watch: IP: 11 K: 13 ERA: 0.82 WHIP: 1.00 K/BB: 3.25 a productive farm system is a wonderful thing.

by kylejo on Nov 21, 2007 6:02 PM CST up reply actions

well ...

I could handle Pods as our fifth outfielder, with Sori, Pie, Murton and Fukudome. If he's cheap.

Now I'm questioning myself. Is Pods better than Pagan?

by elgato on Nov 22, 2007 2:16 PM CST up reply actions

No.

Sam Fuld is a better player than Pods.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Nov 22, 2007 3:47 PM CST up reply actions

Ryno

Keep Kerry Wood. Sign him to a couple years at $5-6M per.
Forget Matsui.
Sign Fukudome.
Trade for a No. 1/2 starter to go with Z, and we'll automatically be the team to beat in the NL (even with a CF who can't hit). I'm surprised there isn't more of a push for another top starter.
I like several of these guys, but they all could be used to upgrade pitching/RF: Marshall, Murton, Marquis, Ohman, Cedeno, Gallagher, Smarjjzzddida, Fontenot.

by goldglove on Nov 21, 2007 3:25 PM CST reply actions

And being serious

all those guys combined won't get you one of the "available" pitchers. You want to consider Santana. How about Soto, Pie and Gallagher? Oh and you get Santana for one year. Danny Haren will cost the same except I doubt Oakland would want Pie. Not sure what they would want.

by rlpete on Nov 21, 2007 5:19 PM CST up reply actions

I wonder if Hamilton

had a relapse last year, which accounted for his lengthy DL stay.

by Clark Addison on Nov 21, 2007 3:33 PM CST reply actions

Pure speculation.

Highly unlikely though, as he kept his production consistent throughout the season and that's an impossible task to do for a Drug Addict who relapses. It'd also be impossible for someone in Hamilton's position, who's story is well known, to hide something like that and not have one person even speculate it.

I think it has more to do with what is speculated in the article and that it's hard enough for a rookie who's played 4 or 5 full seasons in the Minors, to keep up physically and especially mentally with the demands of a Major League schedule let alone for someone in Hamilton's case who hadn't played any pro baseball in a couple years to keep up with those demands.

I think a Marshall,Patterson and possibly an Ohman could get be good enough to get Hamilton. I personally would also do a deal involving Gallagher for Hamilton, if the Reds so coveted Gallagher.

by lemon20pie on Nov 21, 2007 3:52 PM CST up reply actions

I am very glad

you are NOT the GM of the Cubs.

Crazy talk.

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Nov 21, 2007 5:00 PM CST up reply actions

Who said I ever wanted to be the GM of the Cobbers

What exactly is crazy talk? Giving up Gallagher for Hamilton, a #1 overall pick, who's talent is unquestionable and an every day playing LH who had a very good rookie season after missing 2 seasons of baseball, for Gallagher, another "can't miss Cobber prospect?" who is a starting pitcher or was it the Marshall (a perennial #4 or #3 at best), Patterson (who's good as gone anyways) and Ohman (who just plain sucks)?

Which one was it? What am I missing here?

God bless Cub fans and their can't miss prospects.

I'll tell you what, the Reds wouldn't do that trade.

HEck, if I was the GM of the Cubbies, feed me a couple White Russians and I might just trade Hamilton for Dwight Smith, I mean Felix Pie.

by lemon20pie on Nov 21, 2007 5:20 PM CST up reply actions

yeah

im not a fan of a .922 OPS and 15 ab/hr from a rookie former number one overall pick either.

Kevin Hart Watch: IP: 11 K: 13 ERA: 0.82 WHIP: 1.00 K/BB: 3.25 a productive farm system is a wonderful thing.

by kylejo on Nov 21, 2007 6:07 PM CST up reply actions

The only definite negative I can see....

.....with Hamilton's rookie season, is he was terrible against Lefties. Which isn't oo surprising as most rookie LH struggle against ML Lefties.

He'd be 10 times the upgrade than Jones and it would be the best of both worlds for most Cubbie fans as him and Murton could platoon for a year.

Then trade Pie and Marshall and Cedeno for Crawford and that's quite an OF.

by lemon20pie on Nov 21, 2007 6:28 PM CST up reply actions

fukudome

looking for 3-years $30 mil to come to the us, according to mets blog: http://www.metsblog.com/2007/11/21/buzz-3-yrs-30-m-for-fokudome/

sounds like wed have a real good chance of getting him, if we truly do want him that bad.

Kevin Hart Watch: IP: 11 K: 13 ERA: 0.82 WHIP: 1.00 K/BB: 3.25 a productive farm system is a wonderful thing.

by kylejo on Nov 21, 2007 6:18 PM CST reply actions

That's all he wants?

If so, I think the Cubs get him. In today's market, 3/30 for a plus outfield arm who hits like Ichiro is ... well, not quite chump change, but hardly overpriced. (Look what Torii Hunter just got from the Angels, and Fukudome will be a better player over the next three years.)

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Nov 22, 2007 9:43 AM CST up reply actions

agreed

At that price, Hendry should make the deal tomorrow. Hell, give Fukudome $12 million per to get it done quickly.

Also, anyone else think the White Sox signing Scott Linebrink for 4 years, $19 million is a terrible deal -- both on its own AND for the Cubs chances of getting Wood re-signed cheaply?

by elgato on Nov 22, 2007 11:56 AM CST up reply actions

Point taken.

Kerry Wood will almost certainly have a better year in 2008 than Scott Linebrink will. If Linebrink is getting nearly $5M a year in a FOUR year deal -- what is Wood worth?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Nov 22, 2007 1:38 PM CST up reply actions

That has to be the stupidest signing...

...of the offseason so far. Just think -- the Yankees refused to go to four years with Mariano Freakin' Rivera. A four year deal to Scott Linebrink? I don't even have words for how ridiculous that is. Overpaying for middle relief is the worst mistake a ballclub can make, as far as I'm concerned.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Nov 22, 2007 1:41 PM CST up reply actions

YEAH!

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Nov 22, 2007 1:55 PM CST up reply actions

I'll see the Linebrink signing ...

and raise you Torii Hunter. $90 million for a two-time All-Star who's on the decline?

The Linebrink signing is terrible, but the money is low enough that it won't look as bad in two years. The Howry signing doesn't look as bad now as it did originally.

Still, Kenny Williams is quickly becoming Larry Himes.

by elgato on Nov 22, 2007 2:14 PM CST up reply actions

The Hunter deal is weird...

...and to fully evaluate it we have to see what the Angels do the rest of the offseason. Over at Tango's blog, they estimate he's probably worth 5/80, so he's overpaid. But he's still a good hitter and fielder at a premium position; age is going to hurt him over the course of the contract, but that's true of most players.

Guys like Hunter get overpaid because there aren't a whole lot of guys like Torii Hunter, and fewer are available through free agency.

Guys like Scott Linebrink aren't exactly rare, at least in comparison to actually talented baseball players like Hunter. Do you know where the Padres found Linebrink? On waivers, after the Astros decided they didn't need a mediocre starter like him.

If you want Scott Linebrink, you don't sign Scott Linebrink. You see how the Padres got Linebrink and you go forth and do likewise. There are dozens of marginal fifth starters and minor-league journeymen out there who could probably outperform the average of the top-flight setup men in baseball, if given a shot. Roster trash. Waiver flotsam. The stupid little throw-in player that gets traded back in most salary dumps.

Kip Wells is probably one of the worst pitchers I saw last season, but in a short relief role it's not out of the question -- it's not even unreasonable -- to think that he could equal Linebrink's production as a middle reliever. And you could probably sign him for less money and fewer years -- maybe even a one-year flier with a million or so dollars on the line -- so if he fails, you can just dump him unceremoniously without anyone noticing. If Linebrink flames out -- and middle relievers flame out at an extraordinary rate -- you have a very public, messy problem, one that will give the media and public loads of ammo. And nobody's going to just cut a player with three years and $15 million left on their deal.

The Hunter deal is bad. The Linebrink deal is inexcusable. If you're paying over the league minimum for what Linebrink's likely to do for you next year, then you need to start questioning what your organization has a farm system for, and if your scouting director is really doing anything of note.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Nov 22, 2007 7:14 PM CST up reply actions

You're absolutely right.

Unfortunately, most GM's -- Jim Hendry included -- don't think that way.

It's a wonder that guys like Michael Wuertz even get a chance to be setup men in the major leagues.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Nov 22, 2007 8:40 PM CST up reply actions

Exactly

although the signings of Howry and Eyre turned out fine, you wonder if they couldn't have done it cheaper with guys out of the farm system.

The artist formerly known as JoshinLA

by Josh Timmers on Nov 23, 2007 3:58 AM CST up reply actions

Hendry is actually better than many GMs...

...when it comes to valuing freely available talent among relievers. That's how we get guys like Scott Williamson, Ryan Dempster and Joe Borowski.

Now, he's far from perfect there. And Eyre and Howry, not entirely defensible. But at least he's trying.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Nov 23, 2007 9:39 AM CST up reply actions

The Linebrink.....

deal may not be as crazy as we think.

If he pitches well this year and the WS are out of it at the trading deadline (which, IMHO, they will be) he will net some prospects.

Teams overpay for relieft pitchers. The Cubs did two years ago with Howry and Eyre. It worked out okay for the Cubs, as I think the Linebrink signing will for the WS.

"You are an asshole": NDcubsfan

by timeforachange on Nov 23, 2007 12:51 PM CST up reply actions

Don't want to say anything

except everyone have a safe and restful Thanksgiving!!!

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Nov 21, 2007 6:34 PM CST reply actions

Exciting!

The Angels are considering fixing their hustle shortage by bringing back Erstad and Eckstein.

Looks like Vlad's going to have to get an Xbox 360 if he wants to see what lineup protection is like.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Nov 21, 2007 6:56 PM CST reply actions

That's nothing

I hear they're going to have Jimmie Reese back on the bench this year.

Geo! (clap-clap-clap) Soto! (clap-clap-clap)

by cubzfan on Nov 21, 2007 9:55 PM CST up reply actions

hope he hits lefties as well as he hits fungos...

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Nov 22, 2007 9:19 AM CST up reply actions

Happy Thanksgiving everyone

Having 42 people here at casa cubstoseriesby100 and am in a wedding Saturday night. Busy weekend.

Let's just hope the only turkey Hendry serves up this offseason is the one on his holiday table.

by puckishcubsfan on Nov 22, 2007 12:52 AM CST reply actions

Kasa KOW

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Nov 22, 2007 1:38 PM CST up reply actions

And...The Angels Sign

T. Hunter:

5/85-90MM

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071122&content_id=2306608&vkey=hotstove2007&fe xt=.jsp

Happy Thanksgiving to you all. And the Hunter Family.

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Nov 22, 2007 8:48 AM CST reply actions

wood

cant see giving a guy who pitched 2 months 5 mill.still like kerry but maybe it,s time to cut ties with him and prior.wood has been loyal but any chance to go to boston should be taken.i,d offer a 2 year at the most,but not for 5 mill a season.show me you can go a whole season then we talk.good luck to woody no matter what and im sure all cub fans feel the same

by NOMAR on Nov 22, 2007 10:29 AM CST reply actions

as much as i love wood

I can't believe he would leave the Cubs. We took care of every injury problem for a very long time. When he finally gets healthy enough to play he might sign with another team. I hope he's that loyal wherever he goes and I hope they kiss his ass like we did

by ryan797 on Nov 22, 2007 1:22 PM CST up reply actions

I just don't understand.

Cubs payroll will be in the ballpark of what? 110-115 million. And to say that giving him 2/10M and maybe a mutual option for the 3rd. I know the Linebrink signing was off the charts, so I can't see a team offering Woody 3 years guaranteed. But I have been wrong before.
I want the Cubs to sign Wood, if it is 2yrs/10M and if it is guaranteed so be it. The guy belongs here, The Cubs screwed up on Maddux twice lets not do it here. I know comparing Maddux with Wood is like comparing Jessica Alba and Joan Rivers, But Wood belongs in a Cub uniform.
And Jimbo put the Coors Light down, no Matsui, Please.

by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Nov 22, 2007 10:43 PM CST reply actions