Scott Linebrink, 4 years $19 million to...
Chicago White Sox. Yep. Biggest move in Chicago yet this offseason. Is it possible that the Sox will try to spend spend spend like the Cubs did last year??? It paid off. We went from worst (or damn near, I dont remember and dont want to) to first, as would the Sox would like to (Were they last, I dont really care, they suck anyways...). Well happy Thanksgiving to all, and to all a good night! Wait, thats not right, is it?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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What a ridiculous move.......
by BeerCub on Nov 23, 2007 12:11 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Horrible Move
For their sake, I hope that this is the just a minor adjustment for the White Sox 2008 season. If this is their bigges move they are in serious trouble. I will say that I liked the Cabrera move, but thought is was assinine to re-sign Uribe a week prior.
by louslovechild on Nov 23, 2007 12:20 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I found him inneffective
On the bright side, if that's the case, we will play Sox for 6 games and we can hope he pitches 3/6 and blows up each game???
by ak123 on Nov 23, 2007 1:20 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Linebrink
Month/ ERA/ WHIP/ AVG
April/ 3.00/ 0.92/ .175
May/ 1.42/ 0.87/ .191
June/ 3.09/ 1.46/ .277
July/ 7.59/ 1.88/ .318
Aug/ 5.40/ 1.71/ .313
Sept/ 2.31/ 1.20/ .233
That September suggests that he still has some decent stuff. However, yeah, I wouldn't sign that guy to a long-term contract. Maybe a contract with a fourth year club option tops. Then again if you are the White Sox, the real weakness on your team is the bullpen.
by IllinoisCubs on Nov 23, 2007 2:00 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Linebrink
by Josh77 on Nov 23, 2007 2:57 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Kenny
by Comfortably Numb on Nov 23, 2007 4:56 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Every gamble knows...
The Sox BP was lousy last year but this is signing is a surprise. Was anyone else bidding on Linebrink?
"To me Kenny Williams is a solid GM..."
KW is a gambler, no doubt about it.
You view is probably unique amongst Cubbie fans here as Kenny is routinely ripped here, but he does have a World Series ring.
On other occasions when I've heard Cubbie fans rip KW I've asked who do they think is a better GM, Kenny Williams or Jim Hendry? Very often the question goes unanswered.
"But then again Sox fans have always enjoyed ripping the Cubs (spending money) instead of worrying about their own house."
Interesting that this is in a discussion about the Sox.
Sox fans may do it more often but let's be honest, Cubbie fans love to rip the Sox. For example, Al fairly frequently takes shots at the Sox as do Cubbie fans on this blog and other places.
by DrCrawdad on Nov 24, 2007 8:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's either going
by MPH73 on Nov 23, 2007 7:48 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I give thanks for Kenny Williams...
by Kinky Reggae on Nov 23, 2007 7:58 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
If the Sox are bad this year again...
by Mordecai on Nov 23, 2007 8:20 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Good luck Kenny...
This off-season is starting to look like classic Kenny Williams. Make a bunch of clueless moves, and hope that something sticks.
by Damen Jackson on Nov 23, 2007 8:21 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
And what about Jim Hendry?
Hasn't Hendry done exactly that? What exactly has Hendry accomplished?
by DrCrawdad on Nov 24, 2007 8:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You may have a point, but...
by Al on Nov 25, 2007 4:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Armed For Arson...
That said though, I am very surprised by the length of and the amount of money given to Linebrink. He may not have been the sole reason the Brewers collapsed but he probably was a part of it.
As a Sox fan I hope that Linebrink helps to solidify the BP, as that will be a big help. I'm mystified by the contract but I'm willing to give Kenny the benefit of my doubt considering that he's the only GM in town to win a championship in recent years. And comparing what Kenny has accomplished to what Hendry has accomplished, well maybe that explains much of what has been said here about Kenny Williams.
by DrCrawdad on Nov 25, 2007 8:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I've always wondered......
by BeerCub on Nov 25, 2007 10:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe because...
Hernandez and Contreras sure weren't.
by Al on Nov 25, 2007 11:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yabbut....
by BeerCub on Nov 26, 2007 12:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
HUH?
And this statement that the '05 starters weren't that good is based on what?
The Sox '05 starters were...
* In the top 22 of the AL in ERA.
BUEHRLE #3
GARLAND #9
CONTRERAS #11
GARCIA #22
* IN THE TOP 16 OF THE AL IN WHIP.
BUEHRLE #7
GARLAND #4
CONTRERAS #14
GARCIA #16
by DrCrawdad on Nov 27, 2007 12:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And how were they...
Remember what I said below -- lucky is not the same as good.
by cwyers on Nov 27, 2007 12:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So, are you...
by DrCrawdad on Nov 27, 2007 12:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lucky and not that good...
Lucky to be in the lousy NL Central. And as exposed in the NLDS as being not that good.
by DrCrawdad on Nov 27, 2007 12:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
WRONG!
Hum, well the question is not based on the facts. Of the '05 starters only Hernandez was "ripped apart" from the '05 starting five.
'05 STARTING PITCHERS
Buehrle
Contreras
Garland
Garcia
Hernandez & McCarthy
'06 STARTING PITCHERS
Buehrle
Contreras
Garland
Garcia
Vazquez
by DrCrawdad on Nov 27, 2007 12:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Kenny Williams supposed championship!
The White Sox were "given" that championship.
They had TWO, that's TWO games handed to them in the Angels series that were already lost. Not borderline bad calls but almost scandalous, head-turning corruption by the officials to change the outcome of TWO separate games in that series.
The same thing happened in the World Series where Houston was absolutely robbed of one game by the umpires.
Those 3 games weren't minor calls that were blown by officials, all 3 were huge game changing events that robbed the 2 aforementioned teams from garnering won games.
Sox should have been an after note as far as the 2005 playoffs were concerned.
That has to be one of the most tainted championships ever.
Without MLB's unionized misfit (dare I say corrupt) umpires in charge, the Sox don't even sniff the World Series, much less win it.
It's hard enough to be successful when giving extra outs in an inning, officials changing outcomes to get the desired result is impossible to overcome.
And as conspiratorial as that may sound, the NBA is in the proceess of showing us how easy it is for officials to control a game.
by Kurt on Nov 25, 2007 11:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What a load of ...
The White Sox were the best team in baseball in '05.
"Without MLB's unionized misfit (dare I say corrupt) umpires in charge, the Sox don't even sniff the World Series, much less win it."
What is that? How is it that they wouldn't have sniffed the World Series?
Here are some FACTS, not bitter jealousy.
- First place from game 1 to game 162.
- 99 wins (best in the AL)
- 11-1 in the post-season
by DrCrawdad on Nov 25, 2007 12:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
According to Pythagorean Win Expectation...
Add to that the the White Sox rotation all outperformed their FIP/xFIP by a sizable margin, and for the most part has never been as effective before or since... yeah, they got into the playoffs thanks to some lucky breaks in a year where they essentially had five starters (McCarthy, not Hernandez) put up career years at the same time and bullpen scrubs like Pollitt, Marte and Cotts pitch out of their minds.
Getting lucky isn't a talent; Kenny Williams has had success, but he's also had quite a few failures, and his inability to figure out which are caused by what and to adjust makes him a horrible GM.
by cwyers on Nov 25, 2007 12:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And before I'm accused of just ranting based...
by cwyers on Nov 25, 2007 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't you wish...
by DrCrawdad on Nov 25, 2007 10:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. Yes I do.
by cwyers on Nov 26, 2007 1:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Great job, Hendry...
Thank good fortune and/or luck that the Cubbies are in the NL Central.
Thank Jim Hendry for "brilliant GMing."
by DrCrawdad on Nov 26, 2007 9:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously man...
"Jim Hendry is a bad GM" is debatable, and adds nothing to this conversation. Do you have anything else to add than "but Kenny is still smarter than Jim"? I'm smarter than a fifth-grader, but that's still not saying much.
by Damen Jackson on Nov 26, 2007 10:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Uh...
And adding Darrin Erstad to a fourth-place team and expecting to contend... it's not like you can't critique what Williams did last year, either.
by cwyers on Nov 26, 2007 10:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Counterpoint.
The comment about the umpires is a bit overblown. There is no way of knowing whether the Angels would have won game 2 of the ALCS if Doug Eddings had made the correct call -- all that would have done was to send the game into extra innings, tied.
However, there is no doubt that when the White Sox won -- perhaps a gift, perhaps not -- that turned the entire momentum of the series around. Had the Angels won and gone home leading 2-0, I doubt the White Sox "sniff" the World Series.
The Sox caught a break. Don't deny it. Sometimes that's what wins championships.
by Al on Nov 25, 2007 12:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Smear job...
Might have, could have, almost but they did not. In fact they knocked the Indians out of the Wild Card to boot.
"The comment about the umpires is a bit overblown."
"A bit overblown"? No, this guy's "tainted" argument is crap, jealous, envious crap.
If the situation were reversed, and it were a Sox fan spewing this no doubt you'd call it crap instead of this wishy-washy "bit overblown" comment.
Al, answer this for me, do you agree with this guy's argument that the Sox WS championship is "tainted"?
Do you think the Sox were merely lucky? Cheated?
Did the Sox get breaks? Sure. But the '05 Sox were the best team in MLB. And as a great team they took advantage of every break. Even when breaks went the other way they still found ways to win. (An example of such was when the Astros got a HR called on a ball that was clearly below the line in Houston. Interestingly, the Joe Buck did not focus any attention on that blown call and neither do some jealous Cubbie fans.)
Heck, I don't see you guys complaining about the "break" the Cubbies got in '07 by being in the weakest division in the NL were a mere 87 wins got your team the division.
This guy's argument is an attempt by an envious, jealous Sox hating Cubbie fan to diminish the what the '05 World Champion Sox accomplished.
by DrCrawdad on Nov 25, 2007 10:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
'05 ALCS FACTS
Angels 3
Sox 2
GAME TWO
Angels 1
Sox 2
Buehrle tosses a complete game 5 hitter and allows only 1 ER.
Game tied until the supposedly "blown call" what is glossed over by "Kurt" is that after the call the Sox executed a stolen base and had a clutch game winning hit by Crede. Plus even if the call had not gone the Sox way, you seem to assume that the Sox would not have won.
GAME THREE
Sox 5
Angels 2
Garland tosses a complete game 4 hitter in the win.
GAME FOUR
Sox 8
Angels 2
Garcia tosses a complete game 6 hitter.
GAME FIVE
Sox 6
Angels 3
Contreras tosses a complete game 5 hitter.
While discussing supposedly blown calls, luck and Pythagorean numbers, "Kurt" and others gloss over the clearly great pitching the Sox had in the post-season. Why would that be? Is it because the facts expose the specious reasoning by "Kurt" and other jealous Cubbie fans?
by DrCrawdad on Nov 25, 2007 10:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Coming from a Cubs fan
One thing about baseball, after a long season it's hard to say a team got lucky. 162 games is still the truest regular season test of any sport, by far. And, whoever wins the most over that time had to be relying on something other than luck.
Regarding Kenny; I think he is middle of the road in regards to other GM's. I could be wrong, but I sense his arrogance can get in the way for him and this may effect how other clubs/FA's deal with him. I do think he got robbed not getting the exec of the year in 05, and it could very well be because of his personality.
by MPH73 on Nov 26, 2007 11:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
A voice of reason ...
BTW I do not disagree with your comments on KW. He does seem like an arrogant jerk.
When KW was hired he said over and over how he was striving for a World Championship and how he'd do anything to achieve it within his power. Mission accomplished!
by DrCrawdad on Nov 26, 2007 9:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry Mr. Crawdaddy, but
What, exactly, was Josh's boner? Not realizing that the home plate ump would panic and reverse his call if AJ suddenly broke for first?
Trying to shift blame from this off Eddings and onto a player on the field so that the win feels less tainted, ain't gonna work. If Eddings doesn't pump his fist, the Angels fielders still had plenty of time to get the ball and throw it to first, even if Paul still tosses the ball towards the mound by mistake. That fist pump (or rather, the failure to stand by it) is the mistake -- not the reactions stemming from it.
In Saturday's game Darin Erstad was involved in a catcher's interference play.
Erstad, at bat with two men on and one out hit into a double play. The play at first wasn't even close. Why not? Because plate umpire Ron Kulpa didn't hear the contact between the bat and Pierzynski's mitt.
Ergo, Sox are a footnote in playoff history.
Not just an updated, MLB assisted version of the infamous Black Sox.
The facts of those two games tell the story.
Your win is just as tainted as the Patriots Super bow win when they got there by "beating" the Raiders in the playoffs. That was the game where Brady "fumbled" the ball and the officials "changed" the call to an incompletion so that they got another chance to win the game instead of the game being over and the Raiders advancing.
Or the other tainted "Super bowl" when they let the Pat receivers tackled Indy wide outs with impunity to advance to that Super bowl.
Both instances caused rule changes the next year so that the NFL could try to "save face."
Your W.S. win is no less tainted.
The White Sox didn't win their championship any more than the Patriots one their first two. All three were gifts form officials, nothing more, nothing less.
And we haven't even discussed the Astros being robbed in the W.S.
I guess N.E. and the Sox were too good of a story to allow them to lose.
by Kurt on Nov 25, 2007 2:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
B.S., pure B.S.
by DrCrawdad on Nov 25, 2007 10:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
On the other hand...
The highs are high, and the lows are LOW, folks.
by cwyers on Nov 25, 2007 11:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What does one...
I generally keep my Sox opinions to myself, but this move is laughable. And before you come to a Cubs fan site to give us a hard time, you might try going to other fan sites, MSM pages, and blogs where this deal is generally being regarded as one of the worst in the last five years. It's hardly like Cubs fans are picking on Kenny without cause.
by Damen Jackson on Nov 25, 2007 4:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What exactly has Hendry accomplished?
Jim Hendry Trade Profile
Jim Hendry took over as the General Manager of the Cubs on July 5th, 2002. The team was awful that year, finishing 67-95. However, the team's Pythagorean record of 76-86 indicated better things to come. Let's take a look at Hendry's deals over the years, and try to determine his tendencies and favorite trading partners. He's been quite active, making 48 trades by my count.
One trend I noticed is that Hendry hasn't gotten much in return when trying to dump veterans from out-of-contention clubs. He failed to trade Fred McGriff in '02, opting to send off Darren Lewis for Chad Hermansen at the July deadline. That year, Hendry preferred to dump off his vets in August, ditching Tom Gordon, Jeff Fassero, and Bill Mueller for nothing of consequence. (He later dumped many vets like Matt Lawton, Greg Maddux, Todd Hollandsworth, Phil Nevin, Scott Williamson, Todd Walker, and Neifi Perez without receiving useful players.)
Hendry's first offseason was a success. He revamped his catching corps by getting Damian Miller and Paul Bako, and somehow managed to send off Todd Hundley for two helpful players in Mark Grudzielanek and Eric Karros. The Cubs netted about six wins in '03 with the acquisitions. Hermansen was in that deal so maybe we can say Hendry acquired one useful player in a salary dump trade.
You'll notice that much of the core of the current Cubs team came from Hendry's generally fine trading skills. He fleeced Dave Littefield for Aramis Ramirez and Kenny Lofton in July of '03, and went back to grab Randall Simon in August. Ramirez was only 25 at the time of the deal and had hit 34 HR as a 23 year-old. Unbelievable that Bobby Hill could get this done.
Hendry's finest trade came in the winter of '03, when he acquired Derrek Lee for Hee Seop Choi during the Marlins' fire sale. Choi never panned out, while Lee blossomed into a star. Marlins GM Larry Beinfest exacted his revenge on Hendry two years later in the Juan Pierre deal - one of Hendry's few trade missteps. Hendry surrendered useful young pitchers Ricky Nolasco, Sergio Mitre, and Renyel Pinto for Pierre. A month after the Lee trade Hendry acquired Michael Barrett from Billy Beane for Damian Miller - another win.
The Cubs didn't give up anything too useful in their blockbuster trade of the summer of '04, acquiring Nomar Garciaparra and Matt Murton. Even though Nomar didn't help the Cubs, they came out ahead with Murton. Hendry has quietly gotten the better of Billy Beane and Theo Epstein.
The Sammy Sosa trade in February of '05 didn't bring the Cubs anything useful; Jerry Hairston Jr. never panned out. But that was a salary dump, and Hendry did the best he could with a player he simply had to trade away. A year later the Cubs couldn't stand another minute with Corey Patterson, and he became an Oriole too. That one made Hendry look foolish. A third trade of the same variety was made in May of '05, when Hendry sent the much-maligned LaTroy Hawkins to the Giants for Jerome Williams and David Aardsma. That was his only "forced" type trade that resulted in useful players.
Hendry waited a while to find a replacement for the injured Lee in '06, eventually settling on a league average Phil Nevin from Texas. The Cubs soon became sellers that year, and the best Hendry could do for Greg Maddux was Cesar Izturis. He's generally much better as a buyer than a seller, except for the Pierre deal.
Hendry's favorite trading partners are Theo Epstein and Dave Littlefield; he's made four deals with each. He also enjoys dealing with the Orioles' braintrust, Larry Beinfest, Dave Dombrowski, Doug Melvin, and Dan O'Dowd. His one and only crosstown trade came this winter with the Neal Cotts-David Aardsma deal; that one's too early to call. Click here to Download chicago_cubs_hendry.xls - Hendry's entire trading record in a spreadsheet.
While Hendry's free agency record is questionable, he comes out as a strong trader upon review. Cubs fans should have confidence that he'll add some helpful players in July and August if the team is in the race.
by Kurt on Nov 25, 2007 4:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You can't judge a GM on trading skills
Beyond that, you have to look at the clubs long term track record in regards to; identifying and developing youg talent, trades, manager hires and his ability to put the right pieces together.
Overall, I would give Hendry a grade of C. Parts of his job he has done quite well, and others he has proven to be outperformed by competitors with far less resources.
by MPH73 on Nov 26, 2007 11:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He had to do something right?
by Kinky Reggae on Nov 23, 2007 8:25 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Sox
by Comfortably Numb on Nov 24, 2007 6:43 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
An upgrade, maybe...
by Al on Nov 24, 2007 7:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Crawdwd
by Comfortably Numb on Nov 25, 2007 7:27 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
They have what?
by cwyers on Nov 25, 2007 10:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Josh Fields
Gavin Floyd
John Danks
That's about it though.
AJ
Thome
Dye
Cabrera
Konerko
Crede
Contreas
will all be 30 or over come opening day. Buehrle and Uribe will be 29.
Granted Lilly, Lee, Ramirez, Soriano are the same deal, but Zambrano, Hill, Soto, Pie, Gallagher, Marmol, Theriot make up a nice solid core.
by IllinoisCubs on Nov 25, 2007 4:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Jenks, too, in all fairness...
by lostinthevines on Nov 26, 2007 8:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Forever young...
The Sox system is not overflowing with prospects (how much better is the Cubbies system?) but there are a few you missed...
Faustino de los Santos
Aaron Poreda
Chris Carter
John Shelby
Jose Martinez
Jack Egbert
Ryan Sweeney
Lance Broadway
Brian Omogrosso
Kyle McCulloch
And barking from inside Ozzie's doghouse is Brian Anderson...
by DrCrawdad on Nov 27, 2007 12:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They're trying to catch the falling knife
Solo HRs don't do a hell of a lot of good in the long run. Moving the fences in a few years back to boost HR production is going to continue to bite them in the ass when their aged boomers inevitably lose some pop, fall short of the wall and try to stretch doubles into triples.
by lostinthevines on Nov 26, 2007 8:15 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
For a team...
by blackhawk24 on Nov 26, 2007 3:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

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