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Hey, Colorado Rockies! Get Your Act Into The 21st Century!

On October 1, I bought four tickets to "Home Game 3" of the NLCS at Coors Field in Denver. Fresh from the NL Central-clinching in Cincinnati, my optimism overtook reality and I bought these tickets hoping that I would be able to attend what would have been game five (this was already known, since the Rockies were the wild card, and just as in 2003, had the Cubs advanced to the NLCS, they would have had the home field and games three, four and five would have been in Denver).

When the Cubs were eliminated I posted the tickets for sale on Stubhub. As you know, on October 15 the Rockies completed their four-game sweep of the Diamondbacks and thus, game five, which was originally scheduled to be played on October 17, was cancelled.

Stubhub told me that they were giving all buyers of this cancelled event until October 31 to return the tickets to them, and then they'd send them back to us so we could return them to the Rockies for refunds.

This began a comedy of errors. I made what seemed like dozens of (but really was only about six or seven) phone calls to Stubhub, during which I was told that my tickets had been mailed back to me by US Mail (with no tracking number, which would be very out of character for Stubhub, which sends almost everything via FedEx); didn't get my phone calls returned, and so I wound up patiently waiting for my mail to arrive every day for three weeks, only to not have any tickets arrive.

Finally, on November 26 I learned that the tickets were still in the possession of Stubhub. They were nice enough to send them back to the Rockies on my behalf after the too-long delay; I want to publicly thank Brad and Jackie of Stubhub for going above and beyond the call in helping me out.

Meanwhile, the Rockies are dragging their feet: it's December 10, 55 days after the event was cancelled and two weeks after they should have received the tickets, and I still don't have my money. It is beyond comprehension why the Rockies, unlike virtually every other team, don't simply credit back the credit card used to buy the tickets. They know my name, have my credit card number, know exactly which tickets I bought. Here's the convoluted system the Rockies set up for refunds, which requires:

  • downloading a refund form;
  • putting the tickets in an envelope, which requires paying postage to mail that envelope, and also paying employees to open said envelopes;
  • determining the right amount of money (they're refunding all per-ticket fees but NOT the per-order fee) and getting a computer to generate a check;
  • getting those checks into envelopes and paying lord knows how much postage to mail them, and
  • trusting delivering all of those envelopes to the US Postal Service, during the holiday season when mail volume is at its peak (and in my case, to the Chicago Post Office, whose service is notoriously bad: twice in the last week, I had to call my local post office to tell them I had no mail delivery; one day they finally showed up at 7:45 pm)
Now why on Earth would you do this? I know the Cubs did this for some of the single-game playoff tickets, but not all of them. From the Cubs' postseason refund page:
Fans who purchased Cubs Division Series tickets online or by telephone through tickets.com can obtain a refund by sending their tickets to the Chicago Cubs Ticket Office at 1060 West Addison, Chicago, IL 60613-4397. Entire tickets must be sent, along with your name, address, and daytime phone number.

Customers who purchased tickets on Oct. 4 for the NL Championship Series will automatically receive a credit on the charge card used for those tickets.

So if they can do this for the NLCS tickets, why not for the others? Obviously, the reason they did this is because no NLCS tickets were actually sent out, since the Cubs were eliminated on October 6. But if you can credit the card for those purchases, why not the others?

Same deal for the Rockies, whose postseason refund page linked above is now buried so deep in its website that you've got to go to "Tickets", then click through three or four times to find it.

More than two years ago, MLB Advanced Media bought a controlling interest in tickets.com; at the time it was widely believed that this move was an attempt to get ALL MLB teams to sell via tickets.com and have a consistent ticket selling policy. This hasn't happened, as several teams (Yankees, White Sox, Braves) still sell via Ticketmaster; but there's absolutely no reason why transactions of this nature -- postseason tickets, where there is a possibility that the game won't be played -- can't and shouldn't be automatically refunded.

The Rockies could have given me my money back on October 16 with a couple of mouse clicks. Instead, 55 days later, I'm still waiting for the refund to arrive, feeling sort of like this:


Copyright 1989, Universal Press Syndicate

So get your act together, MLB and the Rockies (and the Cubs, too). Starting in 2008, MLBAM should mandate that every team give refunds, when appropriate for a cancelled event, by crediting the credit card used to buy the tickets.

0 recs  |  Comment 53 comments

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Great points AL
Al I completely agree.

I knew there was something I liked about you.  Anyone that uses Calvin and Hobbes to illustrate a point is okay in my book.

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 10, 2007 8:36 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Bummer story, Al. Sorry Mine is much
different.

I had planned a trip to Denver and Boulder well in advance of the Cubs making it in.

As it became clear that the Rockies were going to move on to Round 2, I purchased two tickets from their website in an upper deck location. Apparently they supply oxygen tanks with the seats. Anyway - when the Cubs were eliminated I decided I was not interested in going anymore so I put the tickets up for sale.

I ended up selling the tickets, in Denver on a gorgeous day for a nice little profit, to a rabid Rockies fan. As it turned out, the evening of the game it was barely above freezing and rained most of the game.

You could have avoided all of this hassle and made a couple bucks possibly, by just selling them yourself. StubHub is a rip-off anyway - they charge BOTH the seller and the buyer in the same transaction!

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Dec 10, 2007 8:36 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Selling them myself how, though?
I never did go to Denver, and I don't know anyone from there who could have bought them.

They were good seats, too, lower boxes. If only the Diamondbacks had won even ONE game, that game would have been played and I'd have been paid by Stubhub -- FWIW, although you call Stubhub a "ripoff", I've never had a problem with them.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 10, 2007 8:46 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well there are
plenty of online sources you can use to list your tickets, Al.

The buyer purchases from a private seller.

Yes, you have to arrange for shipping, but you pocket the percentage that you have to give up to Stub Hub.

Stub Hub is a nice convenience, but they are a "rip-off" because they make approx. 30% on every transaction, in which the two parties could just save with a little work - but not much.

Again, if you do not have the time to do this, and the difference in $ does not matter that much, than Stub Hub is a nice choice for these kinds of folks.

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Dec 10, 2007 9:03 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You're talking about...
.... eBay, then, right?

You're right about Stubhub's fees being for the convenience, easy way of listing, etc. In this case I felt it was worth it. If only they'd actually played that game.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 10, 2007 9:07 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yep. Indeed...
Stub Hub does offer convenience as a huge component of the business model, and obviously they have succeeded very well.
Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Dec 10, 2007 9:23 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

in denver?
if you sold them in denver you broke the law. it is illegal to sell tickets for over face value in denver. they prosecuted people for doing this. you're lucky you didn't sell them to a cop.

i already know that's it's a stupid law and that online resellers such as stubhub do this as part of normal business practices. still, enforcement of this law was stepped up during the rockies playoff run and there were numerous articles about it in the denver post.

by anormal on Dec 10, 2007 11:28 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

NO! Colorado ALLOWS
individuals the right to sell tickets OVER face value up to a certain amount.

Sorry, dude.

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Dec 10, 2007 7:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

right.
colorado allows it. denver does not. this is why it is not illegal outside of denver. if you sell the tickets, for example, in boulder it would be legal.

the paragraph below is from here --> http://www.denverpost.com/harsanyi/ci_7179405 . it's just what i found first by googling it quickly.

"Within Denver city limits, a person is prohibited from selling tickets for a penny more than the face value. If you're caught doing so, you face a misdemeanor that can cost you up to $999 and one year in jail."

this was a big news item here during the world series when a guy was arrested with 60 tickets.

by anormal on Dec 10, 2007 10:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

We have a Denver office
We have a Denver office at my company and they are right on the city limits.  One of the people was here last week and told us that they walk 3 blocks from the office they can scalp legally but at their office can get arrested.
We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 10, 2007 10:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yes indeed
same was true for craigslist posters who would only meet up with people outside the city limits to make the exchange. it's a stupid law, but it is actually still enforced.

by anormal on Dec 10, 2007 10:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Another reason why
I like Boulder more than Denver.

Good thing the cops didn't see me sell them right in front of the Market.

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Dec 10, 2007 10:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

boulder is great,
but i do like the diversity of denver. plus it's nice to live 3 miles from a national league ballpark.....now if only the cubs were playing more than 2 games here next year. the scheduling gods have screwed us.

by anormal on Dec 10, 2007 10:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Indeed - that is
messed up! Ugh!

I forgot that Boulder is 90+% white folks...

But coming from City life, it is amazing to me.

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Dec 10, 2007 10:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Stubhub
Try planning a Wicked event with people coming from all over the country and put up with the stuff from them you'll pull out all your hair and your eyes and your teeth.
We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 10, 2007 8:44 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I have a question
I have a question on these things having never bought a scalped ticket for sports.

If the event doesn't happen does the person who sold you the ticket through the site have to refund all the money?

I assume so or if you go to a ticket broker in the city you get all your money back (minus a fee perhaps)?

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 10, 2007 8:57 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Don't know about ticket brokers' procedures.
However, if you sell a ticket for an event through Stubhub and it's cancelled, yes, you have to refund the money (and then you get the tickets back to get your ORIGINAL purchase price back, which is where this whole thing started).
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 10, 2007 9:08 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks
Thanks I always wondered about that.

I've only bought scalped tickets once for the Wicked thing I mentioned above.

Again great use of Calvin and Hobbes.  I love that strip!

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 10, 2007 9:13 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This doesn't surprise me much at all
Perhaps I've just gotten cynical, but the Rockies (and for that matter the Cubs and any other team that issues refunds this way) probably do so because they know not everyone will return their tickets, thus they get to keep the money.  

The only possible explanation I could think of for a policy like this is that teams don't want fans to take the "worthless" tickets and sell them online.  But I don't see the harm in that.

"Dad gum right this games gonna be played under protest. . . I guarantee this is gonna be one protest that's upheld." --Hawk Harrelson, 6/24/07

by RynoHoF on Dec 10, 2007 9:10 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Maybe this is why
If you sell tickets to a third party and the game isn't played, requiring you to return the tickets yourself means that the third party is probably going to get their money back.

It could be a way of protecting people who buy aftermarket tickets, or more likely, an attempt to stick it to the brokers.

Of course, if you sell $100 tickets, say, for $15000, you probably don't care about the $100 . . . but at least it makes it harder to double-dip.

by Shanghai Badger on Dec 10, 2007 9:43 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Yabbut...
... the requirement to return tickets applies to ALL buyers, not just people who might buy aftermarket tickets.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 10, 2007 9:55 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sure . . . .
Because how would a team make the distinction of who sold their tix and who hung on to them?  By requiring all to be returned, the ones that were re-sold have to come back.

Anyway, I tend to agree with you -- a credit card refund is much more efficient for all involved.  Any third party transactions should be covered by an agreement between those directly involved, or "caveat emptor".  Just being devil's advocate as to the reasoning.

by Shanghai Badger on Dec 10, 2007 10:06 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I understand your reasoning.
I do know that Stubhub makes anyone who's paid over face for a cancelled event whole. About any transactions from other sources for such events, I do not know.

In any case, the costs to any team that requires return of tickets has to be high -- from paying the people who have to open the envelopes and count the tickets and make sure they get refunded to the right person, to printing the refund checks, to paying first-class postage on thousands of envelopes. It can't be worth the hassle.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 10, 2007 10:15 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

While the system the Rockies have sounds terrible
I cannot say I have any sympathy for any trouble you are having following your attempt to scalp tickets.

Karma is a wonderful thing.

by Porfi on Dec 10, 2007 10:03 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Keep in mind...
... that was not the purpose for buying those tickets. I had intended to use them. What was I supposed to do after the Cubs were eliminated, eat the $314.50?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 10, 2007 10:39 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's awfully disingenuous
I was in the same boat as you, except I had tickets to Games 3 and 4.  Once the Cubs were eliminated, I put them on Denver's craigslist page.  Sold both for face value.  Another option would have been to do a Buy-it-Now auction on ebay for face value.  You also could have contacted your colleague at the Rockies and Diamondbacks SB Nation sites to see if they or anyone they knew wanted the tickets.

by Porfi on Dec 10, 2007 10:58 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Regardless of that...
... the point made in this post would be the same: that there's no reason to have to wait eight weeks to get your money back on a cancelled event.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 10, 2007 12:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Funny to see such a holier than thou
and sanctimonious comment from someone who only seems to post when the purpose is to slam the owner of the blog.

by Scott on Dec 11, 2007 7:22 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

FWIW.....
Not that this makes it any better Al, but I live in Denver and did the say thing you did in hopes that the Cubs were here for the NLCS. I went to both games 3 and 4. Returned my tickets at the box office right after game 4 and just got my refund check last friday......
You gotta believe!!!

by bolson1076 on Dec 10, 2007 11:59 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

See, that's the whole point.
Does the interest they made on the money they kept for seven weeks make up for the hassle and money it cost to mail out the checks?

Doubt it.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 10, 2007 12:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey! Calvin and Hobbes!
Best comic strip ever
"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Dec 10, 2007 10:30 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I got my money back fro the Rockies last Friday
I live in Colorado and had tix to game 5 of the NLCS. I mailed my claim strait away and got the refund on Friday. I would think you should get your check soon. It is indeed a stupid system but it seems they are  getting there.

I don't think the Rockies expected to make the post season and had no system in place to deal with it. Hopefully this experience means that they won't make the same mistakes / use the same system again.  

If the Cubs were an international soccer team they'd be called Scotland.

by mrtobby on Dec 10, 2007 11:53 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Oy Vay...
What a pain in the arse...

Somebody better send the Rockies an "Easy" button for the holidays.

Ed Lynch is STILL on the Cubs payroll, as our D-Backs scout in Phoenix. Lynch attends all 81 D-Back home games with a notepad in hand. Really paid off for us!

by SackMan on Dec 10, 2007 12:30 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Ding, ding, ding
Winner of the dullest subject and thread of this uneventful (so far) Cub offseason.  To paraphrase Harold Pinter - "And that takes some doin', boy!"

by TR on Dec 10, 2007 6:19 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Stubhub
Stubhub can be pretty ruthless if they don't get what they want, but if you need something from them, forget it.

I once sold a pair of football tickets that FedEx didn't deliver on time.  Stubhub told me that somehow that was my responsibility.  I had to get them reprinted.  This required me to put up a deposit, which I didn't get back until the originals were returned.

I had to dog them repeatedly to get the originals back for me so I could get my money back.

Usually it works well if you're willing to put up with the Sopranos-like fees, but when there is a problem look out.

¡BLANCO!

by 08Cubs on Dec 10, 2007 6:52 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Exactly!
Thank you. My Stub Hub viewpoint as well.
Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Dec 10, 2007 7:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I have a question for all who uses the services
Who's better stubhub or ticketsnow?

I may be wanting to get some show tickets.

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 10, 2007 9:08 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

blah blah blah
blah blah blah. blah blah blah. can someone please give me information I could easily find using google? blah blah blah. your posts are so vapid its pathetic.

by sackings108 on Dec 10, 2007 9:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No
Obviously people here use these services.  I am asking for an opinion on how good they are.

It is not vapid to ask people who use different services to tell you how good they are.

In fact only a moron wouldn't ask opinions from a variety of sources.

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 10, 2007 9:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

so do you not mean anything you post?
because earlier you said that you used stubhub and they had you "pulling out your hair" and whatever other garbage you wrote. but now you need opinions on whether stubhub is good or not? if you're going to post lies about things you've done, you could at least be smart enough to remember the lie for one day. I think being vapid is the least of your problems. Pandering for acceptance and attention online is just a wee bit pathetic, no?

by sackings108 on Dec 10, 2007 10:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I should have said
I should have pointed out I am desperate to get tickets for something and wanted to know if ticketsnow is the same, worse or better,

When you know people use a service and you wonder what might be better it's a good idea to ask especially if the subject is of discussion.  It would be different if I had started a diary or asked in a Fukudome thread.

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 10, 2007 10:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't tell anyone but
in 2005 I had a ticket for Game 5 of the ALDS at Comiskey.  The game wasn't played, of course, because the Sox swept the round.  I had bought it online from their VWR when they first went on sale, but I didn't have any kind of package or anything.

Anyway, I got an automatic refund of the ticket price credited to my credit card.  Less, of course, the "convenience" and "handling" fees.  Which I suppose make sense, since they did print the tickets, mail them out, etc.  But still... what if they had said tickets are $10 with a $40 handling fee?  They get their $50 and if the game isn't played they keep $40 of it?

by ChipSet on Dec 10, 2007 10:21 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

That's the dirty little secret here.
Those fees, obviously, are far higher than they have to be; it's where a lot of tickets.com and Ticketmaster's profit comes from.

And it's those outfits keeping the fees, not the teams.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 11, 2007 3:47 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Not a dirty secret
It's all about the credit card fees.

If you are buying tickets at $200 a pop - someone is paying the credit card company $6 per ticket (3%) for credit card fees.

Ticketmaster is just adding that to the ticket fee so that they don't have to pass on the expense.  It's why service charges for a $250 concert ticket are much higher than service charges for a $50 concert ticket.

I think if you look at it historical - teams refund people the service charges because they get back the credit card fee (most of it) when they refund the credit card.

Teams don't refund order processing fees because...well they needed to do some work and process the order.  

by NorthsideBlue on Dec 11, 2007 9:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I would bet...
a mega high-volume credit card merchant with very few in-person transactions (like Ticketmaster) can do a whole lot better than 3% juice. And every call you make them has an Amex card ad, surely that's subsidizes the bottom line.

by bison on Dec 12, 2007 4:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Al - the "Plan B" Thread?
So - in the event Fuku DOES decide to come here, AND he signs with the Padres, how about the next hypothetical list for RF @ Wrigley?

Platoon? Jenkins/Murton? Kevin Mensch/Murton? Murton/Ward?

Ibanez?

Teahen?

Brad Wilkerson?

Randy Winn (played for Lou)?

We need to have an outlet here in case of disappointment!

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Dec 10, 2007 10:32 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

its 1130 east coast doubt we'll knw tonight
We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 10, 2007 10:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Is Dwight Smith still available?
He was an athletic lefty with speed.
"Dad gum right this games gonna be played under protest. . . I guarantee this is gonna be one protest that's upheld." --Hawk Harrelson, 6/24/07

by RynoHoF on Dec 11, 2007 1:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Dwight Smith...
... amazingly enough, is only 44 years old. Too old for a comeback?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 11, 2007 3:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow.....
This posting is exactly why I don't type a whole lot on here.  

Al---way to think this thru.....  I bought four tickets for my friends to go to the NLDS game two at Wrigley.  They paid me in various formats - one by check - one by cash and one took me out to dinner at an awesome new restaurant and paid for a $250 bottle of wine.

I told each of them that just in case they didn't play the game they were on their own for refunds which they all were cool with.  

But in your world - you say the Cubs should say....Screw ya!  We don't care if you are holding the ticket in your hand and paid good money for it....we are refunding the person who bought it from us (maybe they should add...because Al thinks its a good idea).

Al - it's not a good deal - it's actually a bad deal.  I think the Cubs did the right thing by waiting to have tickets sent to them for the NLDS.  Those tickets were in peoples hands and they deserved a refund.

I also think they did the right thing with the NLCS tickets.  If you didn't get them - you couldn't sell or resell them.

TO make a long story short - all of my friends have their refunds - received their various check the middle of november.

by NorthsideBlue on Dec 11, 2007 9:21 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Just saw this and my answer is...
... yabbut, you made that deal privately, and it has nothing to do with the Cubs. Your deal was independent of what you paid (from what you wrote, it seems that you got more than face for some of these tickets), and so you're saying the Cubs should bear the freight for this?

Nope. The teams' responsibility is simple. You buy a ticket. The game is cancelled. They send you the refund, or in my scenario credit your card back. Any other deals need to be handled by YOU, not the team.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 15, 2007 5:15 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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Cubs By The Numbers

Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.

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