A Correction, and Wrigley Field's Future

by Al on Dec 14, 2007 9:33 AM CST in News Comment 76 comments

Yesterday, I posted what I believed to be an accurate list of players who had been implicated in PED use in the Mitchell Report. At the time, I had not had time to go through the report myself; I took this list from WNBC's website (this was a different list than the one that was falsely leaked to various news sites early yesterday morning that included other names that weren't on the list); not long after that list was posted, WNBC posted this correction and apology.

As a result, Sammy Sosa's name appeared on the front page of this site as being implicated in PED use. That's not correct, and I have removed his name from that post, and I apologize for including it.

Here's a more accurate list, which also makes distinctions between "players connected to steroids", "Alleged Internet Purchases of Performance Enhancing Substances By Players in Major League Baseball", and a shorter list of players connected to BALCO. I do intend to read the entire report, hopefully over the weekend, and write some more on this subject next week.

Let's move on to another topic: the future of Wrigley Field. As noted yesterday, talks are going on to discuss the possibility of the Illinois Sports Facilities Authority, which owns the Cell, buying Wrigley Field and leasing it back to the new owner. Mayor Daley pronounces himself mystified by this possibility, and when questioned, spoke up with one of his usual non sequiturs:

And Daley said he would oppose any tax increase in Chicago to pay for a public takeover of the 93-year-old ballpark.

"Let's be realistic," the mayor said. "Wrigley Field is owned privately and it has been very, very successful. It's made an enormous amount of money, and we have a crisis in the CTA right now. It's hard to believe that in this day and age people are now talking about taxpayers helping out the Cubs."

Hey, Mayor. If you read the proposal closely, absolutely no one is proposing a single tax dollar to pay for this -- the rent paid by the new owner would retire any bonds sold to finance this deal -- and what on Earth does it have to do with the CTA? Go on back to being a Sox fan and leave this deal to the state.

It does make a lot of sense; less cash up front for any potential buyer of the Cubs, and the lease payments could be made by things like naming rights, and extra skybox revenues. The Sun-Times article also says that the ISFA could "finance a restoration in the $350 million-range -- with work completed during several offseasons so the team wouldn't have to move out".

Works for me. Now, here's a possible caveat: buried in Michael Sneed's column in the Sun-Times today is this note about why this is being proposed at this time:

Hmmm. Here's a little dugout dirt.

To wit: Sneed hears rumbles the John Canning group, which is vying to buy the Chicago Cubs and includes Tribune insiders like Andy McKenna, were well briefed about the possible sale of Wrigley Field to the state -- and may have been trying to push it along because it would benefit them as possible future owners of the Cubs.
Isn't it true other groups vying for the Cubs had to wait to hear about it in the news? Questions. Questions.

Hmmm indeed.

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Comments

first!!!

one thing i would like to know is where did CNBC get their list from and what happened to the big names on that list...somthing kind of smells fishy there i dunno.

WhErE's My CuBs?!?!

by tbizzle83 on Dec 14, 2007 9:29 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

To make this absolutely clear...

... the list I got was from WNBC (the NBC station in New York), not CNBC (the financial news network).

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 14, 2007 9:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I like your comment...

...about intending to read the entire report. I intend to as well, because every list of players I read at this point is different. I need to read the entire report to get an accurate list.

by thisoldcubfan on Dec 14, 2007 11:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I saw a couple of the horridly ugly

concrete panels taken off the Clark St. side of the park yesterday and I hoped against hope that they were all coming down. But when I got over to Addison I ran into a worker who was actually patching the concrete panels over there - I guess in an attempt to bring the park up to the magical look it had in 1961. The panels on the third base side were just taken down to take care of other work. I would hope for $350 million, the panels would go. (not to mention many other problems inside and outside the park too numerous to mention)

by TR on Dec 14, 2007 9:59 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I've been aching to see those panels go as well

A nice brick exterior should be in order for any major renovations.

I say keep the newly modified bleachers, and start reconstructing the grandstand...

Give it a face lift, while basically keeping it the same. All while improving the bowels of the ball park. Better clubhouses, modern video/film rooms, etc... plus overall operations and concessions.

Renovations of the ball park should not be just to improve revenue and fan experience, but it should be also considered to modernize the team facilities, and help improve scouting, preparation, and performance.

Ed Lynch is STILL on the Cubs payroll, as our D-Backs scout in Phoenix. Lynch attends all 81 D-Back home games with a notepad in hand. Really paid off for us!

by SackMan on Dec 14, 2007 12:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I was excited when

the Cubs got the same contractors who did the Lambeau Field renovation to do the bleachers because I thought it would have lead to a more beautiful exterior for the rest of the park. Oh well...pipe dream

"Hello again, everybody. It's a bee-yooo-tiful day for baseball."- Harry Caray

by TkGoUWGB on Dec 15, 2007 12:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If I'm wrong, call me a retard...

...but I have a different take on this. If bidding is wide open for the separate sale of Wrigley, nothing could stop someone like Cuban from outbidding all others. If Wrigley is sold before the Cubs are and it goes to Cuban, wouldn't the "favored bidders" (Canning et al) be a little dissuaded from bidding on the Cubs? Maybe this is Tribco's end-run around the MLB purchase approval process?

by 60613 on Dec 14, 2007 10:03 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

It very well may be.

Remember, Tribco/Zell does NOT need the approval of MLB to sell the real estate.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 14, 2007 10:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I still think the sale to the State

would be a horrible idea. While there may not be an increase in taxes to taxpayers now, they will be assuming the risk for a 93 year old building and any issues that may arise from it. Much of the purchase price will be goodwill. Land plus building will not equal purchase price. In fact, I would guess that land plus building probably wouldn't account for even half the purchase price. They wouldn't actually be purchasing tangible assets. There is huge risk here.

I can't fathom why committing the Cubs to Wrigley for 30 years is a good idea. No one can predict the future and 30 years is a LONG time. While from a fan perspective, we all want Wrigley to stay for a long time, the landscape may change and forcing the Cubs to play at Wrigley may become a huge competitve disadvantage. Just look around the league to find examples of how poor stadium planning effects the quality of baseball on the field.

by NO100 on Dec 14, 2007 10:54 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Can Daley be any more

of a White Sox loving jackass? Seriously man...keep your freakin biases out of your inappropriate public responses. Sickening.

MMMMM...Golden shrimp and chicken combo from Ron of Japan!

by Kinky Reggae on Dec 14, 2007 11:00 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Is anyone shocked?

Seriously, why does he keep getting elected? I'm not a Chicagoan and I realize there are machine politics at work, but with 3,000,000 to choose from, can't someone better run?

This isn't the first time -- granted, the old gal is falling apart, but would the Sox have had as many issues with the city as the Cubs have? Landholdings, structural integrity, rennovations, rooftop owners stealing the product, etc . . .

Of course, I also don't care for people who illegally bulldoze airports in the middle of the night without due process, but that's for another blog . . . .

by Shanghai Badger on Dec 14, 2007 12:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He keeps getting elected 'cause he keeps getting

things done. Whether by hook or crook, he gets things done. The downtown landscape, Millenium park etc.

The Sox don't have most of their [Cubs] issues 'cause they're not in the spotlight. In the case of rooftops, well you probably know the area of 35th and Shields (you had better pack some heat and have an extra clip).

Since you're from out of town you can relate to this. What is one of the top 5 tourist spots in Chicago? Hint: It's not US Cellular Field.

What Daley did F-up (and this is from the viewpoint if you want the '16 olympics here) is not having the foresight to push the Soldier Field renovation to allow a capacity of 85,000 instead of just 61,500.

He's just PO'd 'cause he couldn't get his hands in the pie.

If he wants the CTA to be fixed he should have started with their management 15 years ago, not blame the state for not bailing them out. He sounds like an affirmative action group after Katrina.

He may be viewed as crooked and thousands of dead people vote for him every election but by golly he gets things done, usually.

He would be committing civic and political suicide if his actions cause the Cubs to leave Chicago-proper.

Our grandparents used to say, "I hope the Cubs win the Series before I die". Now the teenagers are saying it.

by blackhawk24 on Dec 14, 2007 12:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Good response, blackhawk24

Although, wasn't Millenium Park late and way over budget?

I get the point, though -- if the schools are performing, your streets are cleaned and the garbage picked up, things are good.

He certainly does seem corrupt and his emotional, inarticulate and illogical reactions to things he doesn't like would be laugable if they weren't so mind-numblingly stupid and transparent . . . although, with the (usually) squeaky voice, they still are laughable. The general vindictiveness, though . . .

Yes, Meigs Field made me dislike him more than I used to, but there were plenty of things before that (Hire a truck, etc) that made me question him.

Enough of that -- let's get some starting pitching help.

by Shanghai Badger on Dec 14, 2007 12:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yes and yes to your questions

But its the end product that counts.

I wish I had Millenium park when I was growing up; I didn't. Soldier Field, that's different. It looks like 2 shiny toilet seats collided from 30,000 feet.

After The Bilandic/Byrne/Washington fiascos including the blizzard of '79, the city simply wasn't making progress. So many areas were a complete shit-hole, I thought I was in Detroit.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not on the Daley campaign. He's been involved in activities that totally pissed me off, especially the ultimate demise of Chicago Stadium. Him and Wirtz were in bed with that along with Red Top Parking (who was run by Daley's brother...hmmmmm).

As for Meigs, all it served was a transportation hub for the wives of Springfield's finest politicians to go shopping on the Mag. Mile.

Our grandparents used to say, "I hope the Cubs win the Series before I die". Now the teenagers are saying it.

by blackhawk24 on Dec 14, 2007 12:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Meigs

Actually, it was:

a coast guard/flight for life hub
a place for Young Eagles (volunteers who take kids flying for free)

http://www.youngeagles.org/

a "reliver" airport for O'Hare and Midway
a business hub for the city so people wouldn't have to fly west and take an hour cab ride thru downtown traffic
an attraction for General Aviation pilots

I assure you that I don't make a 6-figure salary . . . but outside of sports, my hobby is that I'm a private pilot. Unfortunately, that's a community that does a very poor job of getting the word out about what GenAv does for the economy, so a lot of people have that same misconception.

by Shanghai Badger on Dec 14, 2007 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It's too bad that word never really was out

'cause all Meigs ever did (aside from Daley and his cronies) was get ripped for having no value.

Since I was never really impacted by Meigs one way or another I was never in tune with the value it did have.

Our grandparents used to say, "I hope the Cubs win the Series before I die". Now the teenagers are saying it.

by blackhawk24 on Dec 14, 2007 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

and as part of the GenAv community

it's partly my fault

by Shanghai Badger on Dec 14, 2007 1:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with what Blackhawk wrote

And as an out of towner, you probably don't know what Chicago was like in 1989 when he took over. In many ways, it was a dying city. People were moving out in droves. Since he took over, the improvements that Chicago has undergone are amazing. I hate my taxes, but I don't think that Chicago would be what it is today if there was any other leadership in place.

I'm convinced that when all is said and done and his legacy is written, he will be viewed as one of the greatest big city mayors any city has ever had.

by NO100 on Dec 14, 2007 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Out of town, but not across the country

Kenosha isn't that far away, and I've been going to Cubs games since 1982, so I remember.

(Plus, for local news, I prefer Chicago stations to the 10:00 Packer Upates in Milwaukee -- even though I'm a GB fan (sorry), I'm not kidding -- 40% of the newscast is the Packers and 20% is weather.)

I'm not sure what the legacy will be yet. It will be interesting to see if Mr. Fitzgerald ever comes across something to make one of the scandals stick close to Dickie Jr.

by Shanghai Badger on Dec 14, 2007 12:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

no need to apologize

I'm in Green Bay though...for school though not for general living and merriment.

"Hello again, everybody. It's a bee-yooo-tiful day for baseball."- Harry Caray

by TkGoUWGB on Dec 15, 2007 12:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The city is fine

The city is in decent shape the county and state are going to you know where in a handbasket.

I've actually given birth to 6 children. We had to sell 3 to pay our taxes. Taxes go up to pay for declining quality of every service.

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 15, 2007 12:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I love Chicago . . .

but I don't know that everything is fine.

Someone commented on the transportation -- a foreign city that I spend a lot of time in (guess which one . . . ) has an excellent, although unfinished, subway system. The El is great, the El is fun, but it's not going to match this.

I know the mayor gets things done, but to ignore everything else because of that . . . seems dangerous. Maybe not 1930's Germany dangerous, but still dangerous.

by Shanghai Badger on Dec 15, 2007 8:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I saw Da Mayor on the news last night...

...and had the exact same thought. He said something along the lines of, "The ISFA should be thinking about the CTA, not the Chicago Cubs!" (And, maybe it's just me, but I thought his intonation of the words "Chicago Cubs" reeked of disdain.) I found this statement wildly over the top and, as Al points out, remarkably uninformed.

By the way, for anyone out there who, like me, depends on the CTA or simply cares about its ongoing well-being, I'd invite you to register with this Web site to stay informed about the ongoing funding crisis (which could trigger a CTA employee walkout as early as this weekend) and to lend your voice to the fray.

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 14, 2007 11:05 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

The state

I'm a little leery of a state owned project like our beloved Wrigley. I amy have to bow my opinion to those who know more than I but anything owned by the state can be help for ransom by the legislature, govenor or state budgets. I know the wrong owner may never make improvements so who should own Wrigley is up in the air in my mind also. A minority calls for a new stadium. I like Wrigley as is...although a few minor fix ups are in order. The bleacher expansion was done well. Who's to guarantee our future home and how it will look, I hope it's a die hard cubs fan!

This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).

by mrcubsfan on Dec 14, 2007 11:06 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

The ISFA...

... is an independent agency. Its funding is not dependent on the legislature or taxes; it's my reading of the article that any money needed to pay for Wrigley Field if the ISFA owned it would come from sponsorship deals, naming rights and/or revenue from new skyboxes (which could go from the current 62 to 150 if the park is rebuilt).

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 14, 2007 11:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Who assumes risk?

What if the renovation isn't $350M? The bonds will have been sold to cover $350M, but what if the final costs come to $550M? An that is highly likely if considering recent public projects. Both the construction of Millenium Park and Soldier Field came in $200M over estimates. And, those are NEW constructions as opposed to the additional risk of a 93 year old building. Who shoulders that risk?

by NO100 on Dec 14, 2007 11:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Would you really want their approval

of any renovations/major modifications to Wrigley Field, after their thumbs up produced a spaceship that landed inside Soldier Field?

Ed Lynch is STILL on the Cubs payroll, as our D-Backs scout in Phoenix. Lynch attends all 81 D-Back home games with a notepad in hand. Really paid off for us!

by SackMan on Dec 14, 2007 11:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Regarding bonds...

...this may be why Daley's speaking out. Municipal bonds, in a more forgiving economic climate, would be the way by which all of these Chicago projects are funded. Unfortunately, the short term interest rates (6 month, year notes) are above the 30-year bonds, and so it's a harder sell. Now enter bonds to fund Wrigley Field renovations, and now local money which may have invested into improving the city sink their dollars into Wrigley (as I imagine a fair number of Cubs fans would do). Now he has even LESS money coming in to fund his ill-advised run at the Olympics.

A caveat: my discussion on short- vs long-term bonds is dated to my Money Markets course in college, which is most of a year past. I don't imagine things have changed very much since then, but I could be wrong. Just tossing a thought out there.

by Flatley on Dec 14, 2007 12:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think your analysis goes to show

that there is no such thing as government money that isn't public funds. One thing leads to another and if you go to fund one thing, that means something else won't get funded.

There are plenty of private organizations that deal with major commercial real estate projects as thier sole business that would be willing to assume managerial control of Wrigley. Many of these companies are located and headquartered in the Chicagoland area. For the life of me, I don't know why it would be a better idea for a government agency to assume this control when a private one is willing to do it and will most likely do it more efficiently.

I understand why the White Sox and Bears needed a group like this. They didn't have a stadium and needed a new one built. This, however, is a different scenario.

by NO100 on Dec 14, 2007 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I can't speak to the Sox...

...who are they anyway?

But the Bears are filled with money. The NFL broadcast revenue is unmatched in sports.

It could have been done privately but wasn't and what came out of that, 2 shiny toilet seats.

The mall with an ice rink in the middle, commonly known as United Center was privately financed (long before UAL got their name on the roof), even though that was only a $175M arena.

Our grandparents used to say, "I hope the Cubs win the Series before I die". Now the teenagers are saying it.

by blackhawk24 on Dec 14, 2007 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You're absolutely right

I forgot about the UC.

So, I guess that begs the question: Why would we need a government body in place when there are capable private institutions that are willing to serve this need?

If the Cubs ever decide that a new stadium is in thier best interests, I can't possibly think that the fans interests won't be taken into account. I mean, you can't build a stadium that no one wants to go to. As much as I would like Wrigley to be on Clark and Addison for the rest of my life (Which I hope is at least another half century), that process should be allowed to occur without artificial constraints.

I can't see any complelling reason why the State of Illinois needs to be involved in this. Are the Cubs really going to move to NW Indiana or southern WI?

by NO100 on Dec 14, 2007 3:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

just waiting

for Blago to fire back on Daley. I think Daley needs to look in the mirror a bit about some of the projects he has pushed for while ignoring the city transportation service almost completely. This is all aside from the fact that his statement seems to have not been thorougly thought out or even remotely accurate in response to the issue at hand.

"We're going to turn this team around 360 degrees." -Jason Kidd

by tony412 on Dec 14, 2007 11:18 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Maybe he was busy...

...with important sewer inspection issues.

I would suggest you learn to truly interrupt all stats before using any selective stats. -- cubswin

by cwyers on Dec 14, 2007 11:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You mean like the over-the-top

Millenium Park... which wasn't completed on time... until way after the Millenium.

Yes, we absolutely needed a giant kidney bean downtown.

Ed Lynch is STILL on the Cubs payroll, as our D-Backs scout in Phoenix. Lynch attends all 81 D-Back home games with a notepad in hand. Really paid off for us!

by SackMan on Dec 14, 2007 11:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

More like

The F(*&&^$#$$@#ing OLYMPICS. When I fly into Chicago I
WANT to take public transit to get home but in a few recent occasions the blue line was basically non funtional . It took
80 minutes TO GET TO BELMONT ( where I got off in disgust).
He keeps harping on Chicago being a "World Class" city to
host the Olympics and they can't even get functioning mass
transit system. The Olympics would be a FIASCO but luckily
IOC must see that the city services are a joke.

FYI related pet peeve. Try to use ANY pay phone at O'Hare
You put in 50 cents DIAL A LOCAL NUMBER IN THE SAME
AREA CODE and it gives your money back, a recording comes on and says "Operator assistance" THEN it tells you to REDEPOSIT
the 50 cents. I know that NOW but when it happens the first time
you assume you misdialed and or you are going to be charges
an arm and a leg for your "Local " call. EVERY DAMN payphone
at O'Hare does this. I realize very few people use pay phones
but it might be nice if they had normal phones in an AIRPORT.

"It's the Cubbies. There's always a vibe. It's the greatest vibe in baseball." Greg Maddux on Cub fan's optimism even after the 06 debacle.

by jessica on Dec 14, 2007 12:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

and breathe Jessica.....

I agree on the olympics, that was one of my main points. I just dont understand how someone in his position can just blurt out all that crap he gave us yesterday when it seemed he didnt even understand the issue. Then on top of that he should be the last person to cry about the CTA. Daley and Stroger are in bed to screw Chicago citizens w/their own personal agendas.

"We're going to turn this team around 360 degrees." -Jason Kidd

by tony412 on Dec 14, 2007 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Like every politician

Like every politician there is they are.

Blagoevich is the king. Whoever would think we could have a governor that makes Ryan look like the Virgin Mary?

I wonder if they'll share a cell.

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 15, 2007 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That, Jess, is why you get a $30

Virgin cell phone that you top up every so often when you need to any time you travel in to O'Hare. The whole joint is set up to drain revenue just by using the escalator.

Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!

by cubnational on Dec 14, 2007 12:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hey Al.......

Just heard on talk radio that if the state bought the park, there is a possibility of PSLs!

Thoughts? I wonder how much they would charge you for those bleacher seats?

"You are an asshole": NDcubsfan

by timeforachange on Dec 14, 2007 12:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I think...

... that first of all, you shouldn't believe everything you hear on sports talk radio. Ugh.

Anyway, I think there's a possibility of PSL's under ANY new ownership. No baseball team yet has them, but I suspect they're coming.

I have a feeling, depending on the cost, that would price out some current season ticket holders, which would open up season tickets to some people now on the waiting list.

We'll see.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 14, 2007 2:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Follow the money

Al - I think you are right about the PSLs. It sets things up for the ticket brokers and corporate accounts. In other words, it creates intermediaries which I would expect the new owners to figure into the equation.

Now the thing that I'm also concerned about is that this is also part of a Selig/Canning purchase manipulation. Maybe Canning can't put together the money they think they need to beat out Cuban and the others. So they can lower the ballclub price by getting the state to pull Wrigley out of the equation. Looks like some backroom deals are happening to me.

I want my Macias!

by wombat on Dec 14, 2007 3:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That was the implication...

... in the Sneed column. Whether it's true or not, I have no idea.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 14, 2007 3:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

IF that implication is true

would that change your mind as to whether or not the state's purchase of Wrigley is a good idea or not?

I have no idea if it is or not, but, as I've written a few times, I can't find any compelling reason why the government needs to get involved when there are plenty of private companies willing and most likely better able to service Wrigley.

I smell a rat. This is going to be good for someone. My guess is that someone is not going to be an IL taxpayer.

by NO100 on Dec 14, 2007 3:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, that might change my mind.

On the surface it appears to be a good idea. But if it is being done to benefit a specific group that's bidding for the team, I'm not so sure.

However, I will dispute your contention that this wouldn't necessarily be good for taxpayers. The ISFA doesn't get its money from Illinois taxpayers.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 14, 2007 4:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Perhaps not directly

but there isn't an unlimited supply of money to purchase bonds. Those are finacial instruments that promise a predetermined rate of return. Since a limited supply of money is availible to purchase bonds, that means that there is a limited amount of bonds that are purchased. If those funds are being used to purchase bonds to finance Wrigley, that means that bonds for other things aren't being purchased.

What those things are is impossible to determine, schools, hospitals, other public works projects ... So, either those initiatives don't get done or money has to be found elsewhere.

If it can't come from bonds sales, since that is limited, where would that come from?

While Hot Rod would love to paint the picture that it's all free to the taxpayer, it's impossible. These things have downstream effects.

While correlating the CTA and this idea has been ridiculed by many on this site, I don't think it is that far fetched. Perhaps this nullifies a bond issue that would have gone to bail out the CTA. We won't know. We won't know what else wasn't funded because this was, but we know that something won't be.

by NO100 on Dec 14, 2007 4:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well.....

If, as you say, the PSL's are coming, how do you feel about the loyal season ticket holders who will be displaced?

Will you pay for the PSL?

As a Bear season tix holder, I had to come up with 20K+ for my seats. They are not cheap.

"You are an asshole": NDcubsfan

by timeforachange on Dec 14, 2007 3:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No one's getting "displaced"...

... just being asked to pay more. Does this suck? Yes, it sucks. Will I pay it? Yes, I'll pay it.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 14, 2007 4:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You are wrong.....

people will get displaced. I have friends who were either moved to nose bleeds or dropped altogether.

There are people who buy these tickets who may not have that extra 5K per seat that they may have to come up with. It was wrong in the case of the Bears and will be wrong if the Cubs do it.

"You are an asshole": NDcubsfan

by timeforachange on Dec 14, 2007 4:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well...

... we can argue right or wrong, and I'm not saying I don't agree with you, but the fact is, it may be coming.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 14, 2007 5:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Giants have PSLs...

called Charter Licenses. The Cardinals have them as well, called Founders licenses. we've discussed them on this blog before.

by bison on Dec 15, 2007 9:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Steroids?

Two guys not on the list-- Brady Anderson and Steve Finley- have stats that really make you wonder.

Anderson: played first four partial seasons from 1988 to 1991 and averaged under 3 HR per season. Then played four full seasons and averaged 15 HR per season (with a high of 21 in 1992). And then: boom! 50 Homers in 1996 at the age of 32.

Finley: played six full seasons from 1990 to 1995 and averaged 7.5 HR per season (with 11 in his best year). Then: boom! Followed that up with 9 full seasons averaging 26 HR, with 30+ in 4 different seasons).

http://www.baseball-reference.com/f/finlest01.shtml

"These are terrible times, and I shouldn't joke about them." --Warren Zevon

by ExNorthsider on Dec 14, 2007 2:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Names I'll pull out of my ass

As I discussed in a diary a few days ago everyone is on the juice.
http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/story/2007/12/11/164427/32

Let me throw some other wild accusations out there as well.

Willie McGee - hit 11 HR in 1987 but never hit more than 5 in the next 12 years. Willie McGee loves steroids.

Bob Welch - Won 27 games for the A's in 1990 never getting 20 before or after. Welch must have been BALCO's original customer.

Fergie Jenkins - Won only 14 games for the Cubs in '73 then miraculously wins 25 for Texas the next year. Yeah right.

Pud Galvin - won 46 games for Buffalo in 1884. 46! He must have been taking some hard core stuff.

by Kooter on Dec 14, 2007 3:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Fergie.....

was high. Get it right.

"You are an asshole": NDcubsfan

by timeforachange on Dec 14, 2007 3:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What??

3 grams of coke and 4 grams of weed/hash implies that Fergie was high? Boy you are grabbing at straws.

by Kooter on Dec 14, 2007 3:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

LMAO!!!!!!

n/t

"You are an asshole": NDcubsfan

by timeforachange on Dec 14, 2007 4:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Point (sort of) taken

Yes, it might be a wild accusation, but it still would be interesting to know just how Brady Anderson hit 50 freakin' homers that year.

"These are terrible times, and I shouldn't joke about them." --Warren Zevon

by ExNorthsider on Dec 14, 2007 4:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I want to know how Welch got 27 wins?

Here's how Anderson hit 50....he played in a little league park, he had killer Jason Priestly-esque sideburns and he looked like this with his shirt off
http://famous-relationships.topsynergy.com/!photos/Brady_Anderson.jpg

The whole point of my diary the other day is that you could take almost any player and make a steroids case for them or against them. Half the crap in the Mitchell Report is based on second hand information. Almost none of those players has failed a drug test which is the only true way to confirm guilt or innocense. Though MLB drug testing is a joke so there's a whole nother argument there.

by Kooter on Dec 14, 2007 4:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't like it

First off, I don't want Wrigley being destroyed by advertisements. Plus, I want the stadium to keep its name.

Live is boring until March 31st strolls by..

by Chanman25 on Dec 14, 2007 8:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Unfortunately.......

it may be the best shot to keep the park standing.

Whatever it takes to keep the ballpark at Clark and Addison.

"You are an asshole": NDcubsfan

by timeforachange on Dec 14, 2007 8:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well if it means the cubs staying or leaving

i'll be ok with it, but any other way I just don't like it. I don't want it to be all commercialized.

Live is boring until March 31st strolls by..

by Chanman25 on Dec 14, 2007 9:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

While...

... I don't want to see Wrigley Field like Miller Park or Chase Field in the amount of advertising that bombards you there, I don't have a problem with adding SOME revenue-generating ads, if it keeps the team in the ballpark. There are many different ways to do this, and I think you'll see some of them as soon as 2008, as they try to figure out how to get some Japanese ads to try to sell to the audience that's going to be watching Fukudome play.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 15, 2007 4:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

sure

put some on the scoreboard (if there is room) and on the walls around the stadium, but do not dare touch the ivy!

Live is boring until March 31st strolls by..

by Chanman25 on Dec 15, 2007 3:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The ivy...

... I believe, is landmarked and cannot be changed.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 15, 2007 4:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What Daley has done is made the

city more beautiful. Much of his success was just a result of America's economic growth in the 90s. He's planted trees and flowers but also given absurd tax breaks to developers and corporations like Boeing. The city's tax base has suffered with all of Daley's give-aways.

Plus, the man has no plan for the future. While Los Angeles... Los Angeles!!!! builds rapid transit lines, Chicago stays stuck in the 19th century with its slow-moving el. Chicago only seems like a world-class city if you've never been anywhere else in the world.

The idea of high-speed trains is as foreign here as the idea of crappy overhead trains that stop every six blocks would be in Japan or Europe, Stay home and stay happy. Travel and understand how pathetic Chicago and America is transportation-wise. Cars rule, baby! What could possibly go wrong?

by TR on Dec 15, 2007 1:58 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Apples and oranges.....

The "El" works in Chicago because it provides the neighborhoods with public transportation. High speed lines would not work in the city.

As for high speed lines from the burbs, that is not a Chicago problem. That is a regional/ state issue.

"You are an asshole": NDcubsfan

by timeforachange on Dec 15, 2007 7:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Point taken.

However, I think a lot of the rest of his post makes a lot of sense, particularly in giving sweetheart deals to his buddies and screwing the rest of us with outrageous property tax increases.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 15, 2007 10:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Unfortunately........

sweetheart deals are part of EVERY government. If you can show me one Mayor, Govenor, ect.... that has not done this type of deal I would be shocked.

As for the property tax increases, I feel you pain. However, the city is expensive to run and services have improved greatly during his terms in office. My taxes are 9K/ yr. I have friends who live in Oak Park who pay much more than that. It is all relative.

The property tax issue is never going away. There are too many areas in the city that are falling apart and that are in need of services. IMHO, Daley has done a fantastic job as Mayor. I am proud to live in the city and happy to have him running the city. Like him or not, you have to admit he gets things done.

"You are an asshole": NDcubsfan

by timeforachange on Dec 15, 2007 10:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sigh.

Let's not get into a political discussion. Suffice to say that although I too am proud to live in the city of Chicago, I do NOT feel I've gotten my money's worth on my property taxes, and disagree with some of your other contentions.

Would be happy to tell you about them in the bleachers sometime, but not here.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 15, 2007 10:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Opening day.....

is in how many days????????

"You are an asshole": NDcubsfan

by timeforachange on Dec 15, 2007 11:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

107 days and change

top of the home page....

Our grandparents used to say, "I hope the Cubs win the Series before I die". Now the teenagers are saying it.

by blackhawk24 on Dec 15, 2007 11:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Taxpayers owning Wrigley?

Is not a good idea unless it makes sense for taxpayers to take on all of the risk for reconstruction/rennovation?

If this makes any sense then why not sell the stadium to the highest bidder who could then rent it out to the owner of the club?

This is such a corrupt insiders proposal it makes me want to vomit. But MLB won't even permit the Cubs to be sold to the highest bidder because their pals have to make as much jack as possible and extract as much as possible from taxpayers as is possible.

I'd rather see the stadium razed and the property sold for real estate then the taxpayers subsidize the wealthy and the political hacks.

by DudeVf11 on Dec 15, 2007 8:39 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

It's funny, we wouldn't be having this talk

right now if one simple act wasn't taken some 20+ years ago.

The commish at that time envoked his power, "in the best interest of baseball clause" and disallowed the Tribune Company from re-locating the Cubs out of Wrigley and tearing it down.

It was the post '84 NLCS / pre-lights era. Tribune was ready to move the Cubs to Schaumburg or anywhere else in the 'burbs so they could do the skybox-galore / sterile ballpark.

It's sad but likely true; we're going to be faced with PSL's, double number of skyboxes and ads all over the place. I just hope they don't bombard us with the non-stop noise between pitches like US Commisicular and all the other new joints.

Look how the 'Hawks moved from "...the most exciting hockey arena in the world, Chicago Stadium" (Pat Foley, 1991 NHL All-Star game), to the mall-with-an-ice-rink-in-the-middle UC.

It's coming folks and there's not a whole hell of a lot we can do about it. If you don't buy the tickets, someone else will.

I'm so damned pissed writing this I have to jog a couple miles in the snow just to cool off.

I leave you with this review of the old North side ballyard:

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/ballparks/wrigley.html

Our grandparents used to say, "I hope the Cubs win the Series before I die". Now the teenagers are saying it.

by blackhawk24 on Dec 15, 2007 11:29 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Do you really think...

... that PSL's, more skyboxes, ads, etc. wouldn't be happening if the Cubs had moved to somewhere else 23 years ago? Of course they would, and the place would suck, because it'd have been like the Cell, one of the "old" new ballparks instead of in the Camden Yards mold.

We'll still have Wrigley Field, and it'll have more amenities, and more ads. Does that really change your experience of coming to the ballpark?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 15, 2007 12:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I admit

I admit some of the stuff bothered me at first Al.

But I care more about the product on the field.

If it would bring the revenue to help bring us a world series winner I don't care.

Heck there are some blogs with fans whining about the Cubs saying they only went after Fukudome because of the international marketing potential.

Even if that's true which I hardly believe I don't give a rats fig if he produces.

If they signed him because Hendry giggles at his name, if they signed him to explain bizarre anime to them, if they signed him because they want to plaster signs on Lee's butt if he produces and we win the series I don't give a rats fig!

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 15, 2007 4:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs