Cleaning Up Baseball: Further Thoughts On The Mitchell Report
I spent a couple of hours yesterday reading the entire Mitchell Report, and I commend each and every one of you to do the same, because you will surely have a different perspective after you do. I also commend you to this article by former major league pitcher C. J. Nitkowski, in which he gives some very honest and up-front thoughts on Brian McNamee, the trainer who gave Sen. Mitchell information on many players he supplied with steroids, and why he (Nitkowski) eventually decided not to do them himself. (Hat tip for that link: MLBTR)
Andy Pettitte's revelation that he took human growth hormone briefly in 2002 (and kudos to Pettitte for coming forward and telling the truth), supposedly to help him heal from an injury, also prompts me to post some further thoughts on the massive, 400-plus-page work (keep in mind when you sit down to plow through it that about one-quarter of those pages are references and photocopies of various documents).
"The List", which we here, and the MSM, were so breathlessly interested in on Thursday, is the least interesting part of the report. Further, the incorrect list posted that morning -- and the supposedly correct list that I posted later that day, which still had wrong names on it -- caused trouble for many mentioned in error, including Albert Pujols:
"It has come to my attention that several national and local news outlets have published false reports that associated my name with the Mitchell Report. I have never disrespected, nor cheated the game of baseball and knew without a doubt that my name would not be mentioned in the official investigation," Pujols statement read. "I would like to express how upset and disappointed I am over the reckless reporting that took place this morning. It has caused me and my family a lot of senseless aggravation due to their inaccurate information.
"What concerns me, is the effect this has had on my family and that my character and values have now been questioned due to the media's lack of accuracy in their reporting. I have never had a problem with the media when they do their job correctly, whether it is positive or negative -- just as long as they report truthfully.
"I would like to thank my fans for their continued support and never doubting my integrity. God has blessed me and allowed me to play a game that I would never take for granted."
This is exactly right. Once again, I am going to apologize for posting wrong names, and for giving in to the impulse to see, "Who's on it? Who's on it?" This is human nature; but it winds up being a case of "not being able to see the forest for the trees".
The report is in three sections. It begins with a short history of drug and steroid use in baseball, going back to the 1970's The second part is the one we've dissected already: the list of players who were investigated. About virtually every one of the players, except for a couple who voluntarily came forward and some who were mandated to talk to Sen. Mitchell because they now work for MLB teams in management, Mitchell wrote:
I'll let you read the entire report for the recommendations, which are sweeping and, if even some of them are adopted, will at least begin to help clean up this mess. The bottom lines are, to my mind, these:
- A lot of players who started doing steroids and other PED's did so "because everyone else was doing it", and they apparently felt that if they didn't do so, they'd be at a competitive disadvantage.
- Major league players, are looked up to and emulated by kids, including high school athletes. You can have a reasonable argument about whether kids should be doing this, but one result of that admiration is this: some of those young athletes began doing steroids in the 1980's and 1990's; this practice is extremely dangerous to their health.
- The commissioner's office, by pretending there wasn't a problem, and the MLBPA, by stonewalling virtually every attempt to make meaningful change (up to 2005), are equally culpable.
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45 comments
Comments
That is a major part of my frustration, Al
But as a clique, the abusers are going to walk. Only the court of public opinion, with its stigmatizing and cultural censure, is the only thing that these guys seem to really have an issue with.
Yes, let's have the Town Hall at Cooperstown and say "never again." Let's see the players union and MLB suits cry about how this is going to affect their kids. But there's not a blasted thing, I feel, that will change. They'll just get better at hiding drug usage, some renegade scientist will come up with a variant of HGH and the tests will again be of no usage.
And the clubhouse omerta will reign supreme once more. THAT is what will likely happen
by cubnational on Dec 16, 2007 8:37 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
You could be right
People can critique the Mitchell report all they want, but as Al mentioned, if you really read the entire document, it takes on a different meaning. To me, it was a necessary step to initiate culture change and in 3-4 years will be viewed as such.
There has been one very important untapped resource to start cleaning things up, and that has been the clean players stepping to the forefront and speaking out. Peer pressure is enourmous in the sports world, and when it becomes less acceptable for players to remain dirty, this thing will gain significant momentum.
IMO, the report is a good step in that direction, because the people that welcomed it the most, were the players wanting to compete on an even playing field.
by MPH73 on Dec 16, 2007 9:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
Dan
by dtpollitt on Dec 16, 2007 10:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're right about the "code of silence"
This is mentioned in the report, as well.
by Al on Dec 16, 2007 12:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Fixing the future
If you want to discipline the active players in this report I think a good option would be 25-50 game suspended sentences with consistent tests and if they get caught they get the suspended sentence + the next level suspension.
by KyCubsFan on Dec 16, 2007 9:35 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
A few points...
Second, I really have yet to understand the "MLBers doing roids makes teenagers want to do them, too." I have never really understood this argument. I did not go to an elite baseball high school, but I was okay and played a bit in college. I never ONCE - during my high school years, summer teams, or college - heard a word about steroids. Maybe I'm missing the point - or it was indeed the fact that I was neither a great player or on a great team - but I find it hard to believe a lot of suburban kids are slumming around trying to find performance enhancing drugs.
Dan
by dtpollitt on Dec 16, 2007 10:27 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Maybe not.
by Al on Dec 16, 2007 12:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I dont give anyone on this list Kudos
I have zero sympathy for these men. None.
Andy Pettitte in my opinion is not worse then Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens or F.P Santagilo or who ever else.
The fact that he(Pettitte) owned up means very little in my opinion. But, I respect those who respect the fact that he did own up.
by Galvan316 on Dec 16, 2007 11:22 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I don't have much
A soul cleansing confession from Pettitte would have had to of happened back when HGH was first being investigated. It doesn't take that big of man to announce his use of HGH a couple days after everyone all ready knew he used it anyways. And I am betting some PR guy told him to do it for damage control of some type. I am surprised that more of the guys on that list haven't tried using the same tactic. I won't be buying it from any of them either.
by love the ivy on Dec 17, 2007 7:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
George Mitchell
Because politics and religion are verboten on this site (although ridiculous diaries similar to "if you were a tree what kind of a tree would you be" from Kerry Wood's large than life adoring women, seem to run rampant here) a man like George Mitchell can print trollop, innuendo, and hearsay with the self righteous aplomb of a man that knows he will be given a pass by an adoring leftist media as he spouts the latest P.C. trash concerning MLB's monster under the bed, steroids.
Because political discourse is not allowed in the sacred halls of BCB, a piece of work like George Mitchell is allowed to act like the bigger man, the demi-god among men, as he plays judge and jury over men that have committed lesser offenses than he ever did in his position as a Senator.
I'm fully aware of what kind of man Senator Mitchell was when he sat in the Senate, and he should never be allowed to sit in judgment of other men.
I can get very specific about Mr. Mitchell but I know, I know, political discussion is like the sign of the cross to a vampire, on this site, not to be tolerated or allowed.
Better to keep the malleable bovine that ingest this pabulum of his in the dark, than to shine the light upon the kind of person George Mitchell is, and the things he did when he sat in a position of power.
Interesting, isn't it. If we don't talk politics, religion, or financial matters, then we can all be equally ignorant.
That way a man like Senator Mitchell can be taken seriously, when instead he should be the last man to sit in judgment on others.
I'm not foolish enough to believe that's there's not a great deal of truth concerning a significant majority of the names mentioned. But I do hope that if there are those that have been unfairly tarnished by Mitchell, that self righteous fool Selig, and MLB as an entity in general, that they take all of them to court on chargers of slander.
Senator Mitchell could utter the most slanderous words in the halls of the Senate because of the rules of that less than august body. He is not allowed that same ability to trample on the character of others in the private sector.
Baseball players are not public figures, in that respect. They don't work for the government. They're only public in that they're in the public eye through entertainment.
The legalize and parsing of words like those of Mitchell and Selig are the kind of words that can ruin reputations, all under the sanctified cover of "what's good for baseball", "or do it for the children" or whatever drivel you can feed the masses to soothe an ignorant, malleable public into walking lockstep to your drum beat
It's not lost on me though, by the lack of outrage from the players union or the players themselves, legally that is. Although maybe those wheels are turning as we speak.
If most here knew the kind of man Mitchell was, not the media fabricated darling given to a "like-minded" thinker, his report would be given absolutely no credence to a "thinking" man.
by Kurt on Dec 16, 2007 11:32 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
"Public Figure"
odd but you seem to be saying that baseball players are not
"Public Figures" in legal terms which is absolutely wrong. If any
of the players named in the report feels it is false he is free to sue but he would be considered a public figure and would have to prove that Mitchell KNEW what he published was false or that he was in essense oblivious to the truth and acted with malicious and reckless disregard of the truth. There is no way any player can meet such a standard and no player is going to sue over the report.
Again I am at loss to see the how religion or alleged
political correctness relates to the report but that would have
to be an off list discussion.
by jessica on Dec 16, 2007 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Only a Fool
Putting all that aside, the tenor of your post leads me to think you either feel that PEDs are not a problem or that they should be tolerated. I don't think this is what you meant, but your oblique attack on Mr. Mitchell and his leftist inuendo leave me puzzled.
Do you feel the report unwarranted? Do you feel that a bipartisan commission would have somehow produced a different report?
What is it, exactly, that you would have done differently? Would you have kept the report private? Should we, fueled by your inferences to Mr Mitchell's and Mr. Selig's complete lack of caring for all that is holy and just, simply dismiss the report as worthless?
Those of us which you have so arbitrarily placed in the maleable masses of pabulum lovers would really like to know.
by Luigi on Dec 16, 2007 3:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Luigi
Yes I do. This is nothing more than a face saving venture by Selig and his cronies to make it appear as if they're do something to get Congress off their backs.
Do you feel that a bipartisan commission would have somehow produced a different report?
Don't care, wouldn't want one. I'm no more interested to know how many of you post on the internet while at work (thereby stealing money from your employer) than I am to know if any MLBer is taking roids or HGH.
It's against the law, wonderful. If MLB finds that objectionable than they should prosecute the players for breaking the law. I'm no more indignant that these guys take P.E.D.S. than I am that many on this board may be taking weed.
We have lost many freedoms in this country because of well intentioned little Nazis that will tell us what THEY thing is good for us and will prosecute us if we don't conform to their opinion of good and evil, right and wrong.
By the same token, if I get caught snorting a line, smoking some weed, trafficking drugs, etc... then I should pay the price. But that's not what's going on here. This is an opportunity for grandstanding miscreants like Selig and Mitchell to appear as if they're concerned and doing God's work with this little dog and pony show of theirs. And trust me, they know full well that it will be bought hook, line, and sinker by the unwashed lemmings as they wax oh so eloquently (or so they think) about the vials of P.E.D.S, or alcohol, or smoking, or Global warming or whatever today's little rage is about that makes little people feel like big people because they have the "right thoughts".
If you want to do the crime than you should also do the time if busted.
No one really cares about this in MLB or the halls of Congress. If so they'd be going after the players in a legal sense. If Congress really was all that concerned they'd go after MLB's exemption rather than just use that as a threat anytime some moronic, corrupt congressman wanted a little face time to look profound and caring. And guess what, KOWS (and I've seen Kerry's wife, a very pretty lady. As loyal as Kerry has been to the Cubs I'd bet he's just as loyal to his wife. If not, seeing the man's taste in the fairer sex, I doubt that he'd be looking for a woman that could just as easily be found grazing in some farmer's pasture) on this site are given the opportunity show how "good" they are by puffing up their flabby little chests in indignation as they blabber on about the evils of P.E.D.S. while possibly sitting in front of their monitors firing up a toke.
What is it, exactly, that you would have done differently?
I'd have done nothing. If they want to inject each other in their bottoms and the employer doesn't agree, then call in the authorities and bust them. This foolishness that it was rampant in the clubhouses but no one in MLB knew about it is sophomoric.
Would you have kept the report private?
Wouldn't have done the report
Should we, fueled by your inferences to Mr Mitchell's and Mr. Selig's complete lack of caring for all that is holy and just, simply dismiss the report as worthless?
Absolutely. It is worthless. Nothing more than posturing and grandstanding meant to illicit responses by those with way too much time on their hands. Lets a lot of little people feel self important concerning those big bad dishonest athletes.
Those of us which you have so arbitrarily placed in the (malleable) masses of pabulum lovers would really like to know.
By the way, I haven't placed YOU in those masses, only those self righteous indignants that can't wait to cast the first of many stones about something they know next to nothing about; don't have the facts about; but sure won't pass up an opportunity to pontificate at great lengths about; because they're such wonderful and worthwhile human beings, don't you know.
by Kurt on Dec 16, 2007 4:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps I Grow
I still don't quite see what you are driving at. Is your apparent cynicism about society in general exclusive of baseball as an institution or do you simply accept MLB as superficial entertainment?
If the later, then I think I understand where you're coming from. If, however,like most of us, you see MLB as something more than crass entertainment--something more than wrestling or a toilet humour holloywood production--then how can you not at least feel cuckholded by the rampant use of PEDs in MLB and as such join the clamor to address the issue to the extent currently possible among those closest to the game?
I watch MLB with the thought that I am seeing the best players in the world at work. I see MLB as part of my cultural ethos. Perhaps I am naive but I place MLB on a pedestal because I expect to see excellence in this athletic endeavor with the thought that it is untainted by what I consider to be the spectre of PEDs. I don't care that you toke up in your living room. I don't care if you wish to poison yourself with tobacco. Your vices are your vices as mine are mine. It has nothing to do with the issue at hand except to fog it.
Am I indignant. I suppose I am to a degree. I don't however expect nor do I want anyone to be legally prosecuted unless through due process. Even at that my faith in the overall system, perhaps like yours, is as weak as it can be.
I have no control over the court of public opinion which is, at best, marginal. I do, however, accept it as the source of most of what happens in the world we live in.
What I do want to see are concrete steps taken to at least convice me that PED use is not a major factor on the field of play. That's all. Is it too much to ask that when I see a home run or a strikeout that it emanates from the same natural processes that it espouses to be from?
by Luigi on Dec 16, 2007 5:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What I'm driving at
Yes, er...both, kind of. Although instead of calling me a cynic about society, I think realist would be a better word. Recognizing that all man are fallen...oops, best not go down that line of thought as the Christ-haters will come out in droves. An sadly yes, MLB is walking ever closer towards being nothing more than a gussied up version of WWE, or whatever they're calling themselves these days, type of entertainment. Too many officials "missing" too many calls affecting the outcome of games in ALL sport venues, NBA, NHL, MLB, NFL, etc...
How can you not at least feel cuckolded by the rampant use of PEDs in MLB and as such join the clamor to address the issue to the extent currently possible among those closest to the game? I watch MLB with the thought that I am seeing the best players in the world at work. Perhaps I am naive but I place MLB on a pedestal because I expect to see excellence in this athletic endeavor with the thought that it is untainted by what I consider to be the specter of PEDs.
Because this is just today's ox to gore. You bemoan seeing the sport untainted, since when? The sport has always been tainted going all the way back to the Black Sox scandal and before.
Did we see the best of the best when Ruth hit his homeruns minus black America being allowed in the game? No Josh Gibson, no Satchel Paige to answer him Ruthian swat for Ruthian swat. Greenies and amphetamines in earlier years, raising and lowering mounds to increase or decrease the offense thereby aiding pitchers over hitters in one era and vice versa? Or the wink, wink, nod, nod as pitchers loaded up baseballs, players corked bats, or MLB doctored their baseballs to manipulate the game.
The NFL and NBA have specific rules on sizes and lengths of their venues. Not MLB. Stadiums are built bigger or smaller, infield grass is cut short or allowed to lengthen, roofs open or closed. The game is and always has been haphazard. Certainly not all of this is illegal but it's hardly untainted.
And as far as seeing the "best players at work" that's best seen overseas in Asian countries where they play the game like we "use to" play it. Players no longer know how to run the bases without getting thrown out on a walk, hit the cutoff man, work the count, steal a base, or any other of a myriad of fundamental aspects of the game.
The beast we see today is the beast we clamor for. MLB, Congress, nor the fans really cared about the cartoonish size of the players from '98 on when Mac and Sammy started their battle and Barry may have felt a need to join the race that all were getting paid so handsomely for.
You may be appalled by the PEDs in today's game but most aren't...and weren't...when it was happening.
And to be perfectly frank, I'm less disgusted by a pill popping workout freak (though I'd never do it as I'm attached to my testicles) than a morbidly obese 300 pound cow wagging his or her finger at that player as they sidle up to the nearest buffet table. (Remember, I said LESS disgusted.)
The hypocrisy is rank concerning PEDs, especially for this drugged up Baby Boomer, X-Gen culture that hasn't see a pill it didn't like. Turn on the TV at anytime and see how long it takes for some quack to LEGALLY push some pill that allows you to do harm to your body under the guise of "you deserve to enjoy your life." If you have heartburn eating spicy foods than take this pill BEFORE hand and eat that pizza with gusto. Of course your body gives you that bad reaction because it's trying to tell you something, but no worries, take the little blue, pink, yellow pill and gorge away. Of course in ten years your intestines will be a wreck but no worries! Or stop ovulating for 3-4 months at a time, take a pill for getting it up, or one for sleeping, or one for depression, or Ritalin if your kid has nervous energy because of the massive amounts of sugar you force feed him.
What could possibly go wrong!
Yeah PEDS really horrify me, we being such a puritan nation concerning drugs and all.
by Kurt on Dec 16, 2007 7:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Your Disgust
sarge39532 at yahoo.com if you should so choose. You clearly have much to learn.
by Luigi on Dec 16, 2007 9:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
color me confused, Luigi
Your Disgust regarding life on earth is shared by me, and an untold throng.
While this sounds like we're 180 out:
You clearly have much to learn.
By the way, I'm 50 years-old. Don't I already know it all?
by Kurt on Dec 16, 2007 9:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You claim politics is "verboten"...
Mitchell had no subpoena power, he was reliant on those willing to come forward, and evidence that was available to him through whatever channels were open. Given those constraints, he did an OK job.
And your "Christ-hater", "leftist media", and "PC trash" drivel is seriously uncalled for here. The only person who ever made such references in this diary is you.
Finally, you seem to sling a lot of innuendo regarding Sen. Mitchell. Without any evidence, which you have not offered, obviously preferring to merely shout unsubstantiated allegations, why would anyone take you as anything more than a belligerent fool?
by MN exile on Dec 16, 2007 10:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The buck stops here
If the head of MLB, Bud Selig, chooses to ignore a problem he is well aware of, of course there will be widespread cheating.
I have heard that Selig was on radio recently and spent the majority of his time applauding his performance as commissioner. Time and again he has stared down the threats of Congress and the public in an arrogant fashion. He blames lack of testing for failure to do anything meaningful. He blames the union for their reluctance to surrender their bargained rights. By the way, he agreed to those rights as commissioner.
If baseball wants to move forward and earn respect it's time for Selig to resign. In a past era baseball turned to Judge Landis to implement change. Until there is new leadership people will assume it business as usual, just a little bit sneakier.
by tharr on Dec 16, 2007 11:38 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
New leadership required
- Steroids/HGH scandals
- Ridiculously over-priced MLB baseball salaries resulting in overly inflated ticket prices.
- No true salary cap
- Blackout restrictions during the internet era
by Neifi Puppy on Dec 16, 2007 11:39 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
LOUD LOUD SUSTAINED APPLAUSE
Selig has been asleep on the watch for too long and has stupidly just watched the Roid beast's hydra heads regenerate everytime he waved his butter knife at the PED abusers he could paddle.
by cubnational on Dec 16, 2007 8:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So you believe Pettitte?
Everyone's buying Pettitte's story hook, line & sinker. Shouldn't every guy just say they did it to heal so everyone will believe him?
This is how honest Pettite is. He's lied before. Why do we believe him now?
by tyger1147 on Dec 16, 2007 12:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Sigh.
Pettitte told the truth. The reason he claims to have used HGH is for healing an injury, thus the word "supposedly".
The link you just posted is absolutely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
by Al on Dec 16, 2007 12:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sigh
by tyger1147 on Dec 16, 2007 12:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is that the best you could come up with?
by LT on Dec 16, 2007 2:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pathetic...
by MN exile on Dec 16, 2007 10:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He MAY have told the truth...
I don't really know the details on the extent of Pettitte's use (or non-use) of PEDs. But his admission doesn't seem to be all that impressive. It's even less impressive if
It's somewhat like if someone stole several million dollars from several banks, and then admitted to stealing $20 from a cash register. Sure, it's nice that the admitted a little bit, but it certainly doesn't warrant him/her any credit.
This presumes that Pettitte's steroid use was more substantial than just the two-time use of HGH. If he did in fact only use HGH twice (and nothing else), then I agree with you Al. But I'm cynical and don't believe that's all he did. Thus, I think what he's actually doing is a bit underhanded and slimy - admit to something minor and take a bit of heat for that, but potentially avoid the big guns.
by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2007 8:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't this seem similar to
Btw, agree 100% with your comments. There's really no way to know if he is saying the whole truth or just part of the truth. And the fact that he doesn't even think he did anything wrong (he says "if I have done something wrong, I apologize") just makes his admittance less impressive. Like others have said, if you want to use something for medical purposes that you think is legal and within the rules you go to your team's physician or to a renowned physician. You don't go to McNamee.
Luis
by Luis on Dec 16, 2007 8:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I have a question
(1) If we suppose that the "cheaters" are the minority (surely less than 50% of the players, and more realistically around 10-20%),
(2) If we assume that many non-cheaters are loosing their job, along with big time money to the cheaters (and there is a good case to make that steroids, for example, can increase your production inmensly),
(3) If we assume that the "clean" players are outraged because of #2, then here's my question:
Why haven't the players done more to even their own playing field?
To me, this is an important question to ask. Because they players themselves, as a union, have resisted time and time again any drug testing program and the only reason that the present drug testing is where is at (which is better than before but still a far cry from the Olympic program, for example) is because of the hear brought on by Congress. So here's the thing: are you telling me that all this while 10-20% of the players have been at an advantage while 80-90% have been at a disadvantage, and that this 80-90% have shut their (angry) mouths just to be good union citizens?
I just don't buy it. To me a lot more than 10-20% stand to loose with tougher testing. How many don't use steroids but use amphetamines? How many do something else? Maybe the majority of players use "something" that they would stand to loose if there was a real testing program in place and that's the reason that they have never taken any initiative on this matter. Maybe.
One final thing:
Let's get one thing straight: with steroids both the owners and the players make more money because wether it sounds good or not the fans want to see more their team win and see great performances more than they care about steroids. That's the reality. So to me it seems foolish for anyone to expect that MLB and the Players Union can police themselves. If anything significant will be done on this matter it will have to be imposed by Congress and carried out independently. I don't understand why this is not more apparent.
by Luis on Dec 16, 2007 12:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
My hope
This is just a step in a long journey guys. This is not the beginning and it's certainly not the end.
I'm not Mitchell's biggest fan but I thought he did a good job considering the circumstances.
by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 16, 2007 1:44 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Al
by Comfortably Numb on Dec 16, 2007 4:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
My Tendancy
Additionally, if his explanation was the truth, why should he fess up if he took HGH before it was officially banned. Of course, if it was illegal by statute, that is a different matter altogether.
by Luigi on Dec 16, 2007 4:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Right.
I give Pettitte some credit. Maybe "kudos" was going a little too far, but give the guy at least something for coming forward, even after the report.
by Al on Dec 16, 2007 5:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yadda yadda yadda
by lostinthevines on Dec 16, 2007 8:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
My cynicism
by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 16, 2007 10:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
This was the MLB investigation.
by MN exile on Dec 16, 2007 10:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly...
by SouthernCub on Dec 17, 2007 6:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why? Why? Why?
Please let private enterprise remain self-correcting, Bobby.
by lostinthevines on Dec 17, 2007 8:36 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Cleaning Up Baseball...
by 100yearsofineptitude on Dec 17, 2007 5:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I got a better idea
They can push the fences back a bit, increase the distance from the mound to home plate and just reinvent the game with semi-bionic players on the field.
I'll bet they could get some sponsorship money from some of the drug companies.
by MPH73 on Dec 17, 2007 6:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you are
I think that MLB should do everything it can to clean up baseball. The past is the past and I don't think that we should dwell on the mistakes too much though. We should take the steroid era for what it was and put it in context.
by NO100 on Dec 18, 2007 9:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oops...
by 100yearsofineptitude on Dec 18, 2007 8:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why do we tolerate...
by 100yearsofineptitude on Dec 17, 2007 7:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

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