WTF?!  No Neifi?!

UZI

Ryne Sandberg
Cap Anson
Billy Williams
Ron Santo
Ernie Banks
Gabby Hartnett
Fergie Jenkins
Three Finger Brown
Sammy Sosa
Billy Herman

I have Banks lower than everybody else because once he moved to 1B, his game was very one-dimensional, home run or bust.  He had Pattersonesque OBP rates.

Sosa drops from #6 to #9 list due to the entire 2004 season.

I don't think he was the greatest player statistically the Cubs ever had, but he is Mr. Cub. Therefore, I think he needs to be number one.

Ernie Banks
Cap Anson
Three Finger Brown
Ryne Sandberg
Billy Williams
Fergie Jenkins
Sammy Sosa
Gabby Hartnett
Billy Herman
Ron Santo

1. Banks
   
2. Sandberg
   
3. Brown
   
4. Hartnett
   
5. Anson
   
6. Williams
   
7. Sosa
   
8. Santo
   
9. Jenkins
   

10.Herman
   sorry, I just can't put an 1800's guy any higher than 5th. Game was very different then.

I'm inclined to put Sandberg in the top 5, but I've got to be careful because he's one of just three players on this list I actually saw play (the others are Sosa and Jenkins, but I missed Jenkins in his prime, only seeing him when he returned in 1982/1983). Being objective may be difficult. In Sandberg's favor, he led the Cubs to two postseason appearances, something that can't be said for Jenkins/Banks/Santo/Williams.

Interesting to see a lot of people here are picking these two to be 9th and 10th. I agree, actually. Though we all love Ron, his stats aren't up there with stats from guys like Banks, Williams, Sandberg and Sosa. Neither are the stats compiled by Herman, who had pretty much no power. Herman definitely is 10th on my list. His best years were during the mid-1930s, when offense was dominating the game and hitting .300 wasn't as big a feat as it was at other times in baseball history.

I haven't really thought this through though.  I'm sure if I spent some time considering it, the list would be dramatically different.

1. Banks
   
2. Sandberg
   
3. Anson
   
4. Sosa
   
5. Brown
   
6. Jenkins
   
7. Williams
   
8. Santo
   
9. Hartnett
   
10. Joe Kmak

was one of my favorite Cubs when I was little. I even had his picture on my wall. He deserves a place on the "also-ran" list of top-100, I believe, simply because he's the last Cub pitcher to lose 20 games (he was 11-22 in 1974) And his ERA of 3.86 that year wasn't even all that bad. Imagine how weak the offense had to be for a guy with a 3.86 ERA to lose 22 games.

1. Banks
   
2. Sandberg
   
3. Anson
   
4. Santo
   
5. Williams
   
6. Sosa
   
7. Brown
   
8. Jenkins
   
9. Hartnett
   
10. Herman

I am not even going to try to rank these guys in any order because I had a long day at work and my brain does not have that much thinking power left for today.  But I will offer this interesting tidbit before the Bulls game starts. I know that Ernie Banks will have the title of "Mr. Cub" forever, and that's fine, because Ernie is great.  But given that he was way before my time, I have a hard time relating to the way he sees things.  I can't relate to the mindset of "It's a beautiful day, life is wonderful, let's play two, let's sing and dance and love each other" and all that sunshine personality bullshit when the Cubs are losing.  When the Cubs lose, it kills me.  I mean, I live and die and wear my heart on my sleeve with every pitch, every day, every year.  Yes, I love the ballpark, I love Chicago, and I love being a Cubs fan.  But when the Cubs are losing, I am miserable.  I know Ernie loves the Cubs and genuinely wants to win, but his attitude is way too old school, way too "P.K. Wrigley era" for my taste.

I relate much more to a guy who bleeds for the Cubs, and who crys tears of sorrow when they lose, and tears of joy when they win.  A guy like Ron Santo.  My hero growing up was Ryne Sandberg, and Ryno will always be my favorite Cubs player.  But for me, the title of "Mr. Cub" goes to Ron Santo.  Santo is the people's Mr. Cub, because he is the guy, I believe, that Cubs fans really relate to.  You feel his joy and pain, and you relate to it because it's exactly how you feel about it.  

Also, as opposed to Ernie Banks, who lives a charmed life in California (well deserved, by the way), Santo's life is a symbol of what being a Cubs fan is like.  A guy who has endured years of adversity, health problems, broken hearts (not getting into the HOF), and just overall terrible things happening to him.  Yet every spring, he is back, as passionate and positive as ever, despite all previous setbacks, determined to live out his dream, against all odds, of seeing the Cubs win the World Series.  I'm rambling, I know, so I'll stop.  But for my money, my Mr. Cub is Ron Santo.  He is the ultimate symbol, the ultimate metaphor, for what the Cubs and their fans are all about.

Cap Anson Its hard to put his historic numbers in context.   Notwithstanding this, I have him as number 1.
Gabby Hartnett  At the time he retired one of the top two or three catchers of all time.  He's still in the top 5.  
Three Finger Brown.  A great pitcher that, like Anson, is hard to evaluate because of position.
Fergie Jenkins.  A great pitcher.
Ernie Banks.   He would have been higher if he had been a SS for more of his career.   He was very good at first, but just as Soriano is more valuable as a second baseman, Banks went from being the best player in baseball (as a shortstop) to "merely" one of the top 10 in the league.
Ron Santo An outstanding hitting and fielding third baseman.   At the time he retired he was number two or three at his position.  If he were in the HOF, he would be higher on the list.
Billy Williams.  The Whistler was a great hitter.  And a great fielder. But he played in the OF and thus moves down the list.
Ryne Sandberg.  A superb second baseman that didn't really hit like a second baseman.
Sammy Sosa.  A truly great hitter who didn't care about the other half of his game.  If he had played a little bit more defense, he would have moved up the list.
Billy Herman.  One of these things is not like the other, one of these things doesn't belong.  An easy number 10 in the list.
Ryne Sandberg

My Top 10:
Sammy Sosa
Ernie Banks
Billy Williams
Ryne Sandberg
Fergie Jenkins
Three Finger Brown
Ron Santo
Gabby Hartnett
Billy Herman
Cap Anson

I first watched the Cubs in 1960, when Santo came up. I liked the fact Ernie was always optimistic, but Ron struck me as the guy who just would not accept losing. He was such an intense competitor, & I patterned myself after him. I hated losing with a smile also, and was always determined to win. The early 60's were tough on Ron, but he never let up. And nobody enjoyed winning more than he did.

Looking over the top 100 so far, I think Al has done a superb job.  But of course there are things to argue about: Cavaretta @ #11 is way too high, and George Gore, @ #48, is way too low, since I think he's the all-time Cub CFer.  King Kelly (@ #41), the first player famous enough that people wanted his autograph, was clearly a more significant player than Cavaretta.  Just because we don't remember these guys is no reason to discount them.

For example, Gore's OPA+ was 136 (that's 36% above league ave.), Kelly's was 138.  Sandberg's, by comparison, was 114, and Ryno's certainly going to be in the top 5.  For purposes of this website, that's probably fine.  

But Al, if you turn this into a book--which you should--you ought to reconsider some of the 19th century guys--like Gore, Kelly, Williamson, and Clarkson--I think you've got Dahlen about right (the '90s were a high scoring era). The theme might be: what other franchise has its all-timers dead for almost a century?  Anyway, look at OPS+ before you commit this to print.

OPS+ doesn't pick up longevity, however, which matters, but which I think the current list overvalues.  So the second list below, which is total total runs created, accounts for that.  Both peak and longevity matter; you can't make all-time decisions without considering both, and also without factoring in league average, which stats like OPS+ do for you.

Al, I know you're not a stats guy--at least not exclusively.  But if you make the rankings based on guys you watched, or heard about, that unfairly penalizes the guys who came before you or your sources.  And one thing about this franchise is that we've got an enormously long history.  And a history that, at least until World War II, was as good as any other franchise in baseball.

It's the last half-century+ that's been the problem....

OPS+              OPS+  PA

1. Hack Wilson    155  3719
   
2. George Gore    150  3306
   
3. King Kelly     148  3072
   
4. Cap Anson      140  10112
   
5. Sammy Sosa     138  7898
   
6. Bill Nicholson 136  5614
   
7. Frank Chance   136  5066
   
8. Billy Williams 135  9504
   
9. Riggs Steph'son130  3964
   

10.Aramis Ramirez 129  2027

Runs Created       RC    PA

1. Cap Anson      1597  10112
   
2. Ernie Banks    1560  10395
   
3. Billy Williams 1557  9504
   
4. Sammy Sosa     1439  7898
   
5. Ron Santo      1354  8979
   
6. Ryne Sandberg  1312  9276
   
7. Mark Grace     1240  8234
   
8. Gabby Hartnett 1138  7132
   
9. Stan Hack      1136  8506
   

10.Jimmy Ryan     1121  7542

One other thing, you might not want to penalize the 19th century guys too much for low plate appearances because the seasons were so short then.  Anson obviously is an exception, since he could write his name into the lineup and decide not to trade himself.

 

the discrepancy between Gore's and King Kelly's numbers in the text above and in the lists below is due to the fact that both were more productive as White Stockings than they were later in their careers.  But both helped their new teams to pennants--Gore with the Giants; Kelly with the Beaneaters (Braves),  At the same time, the White Stockings/Colts (Cubs) became also rans, winning nothing for 20 years after Spalding/Anson dumped the two of them after the '86 title.