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No Kitchen Sink, But...

... just about everything else you could think of that could happen during a baseball game, did happen during this afternoon's 1-0 Cub loss to the Padres, far more excitement than 99% of all 1-0 games.

Where do I begin? How about at the end, when a sudden downpour (with the sun still shining) hit in the 9th inning, right about the time when Russell Branyan's solo HR off Carlos Zambrano accounted for the only run of the game. (The rainstorm was so localized that it didn't rain at my house, which is only about 1 1/2 miles south of Wrigley Field.)

And yes, those of us in the LF bleachers (which included about a dozen BCB'ers, including: indytaz, roach, jessica, sparkles721, wheatfield mike, Jesse Guam, and gauchodirk, and assorted friends accompanying them) all thought Z had Branyan struck out not once, but twice, on two-strike pitches, before the HR.

It's a shame, because Z took a no-hitter into the 8th inning, losing it on a one-out comebacker by Marcus Giles that he couldn't quite handle; Terrmel Sledge hit into an inning-ending double play, keeping the game scoreless. That is, to my recollection (and someone tell me if it's different), the longest a no-hitter has gone at Wrigley Field in ten years (since Alex Fernandez of the Marlins took one into the 9th inning on April 10, 1997, another 1-0 Cub loss).

And that would have been enough excitement, really -- but the biggest story of the day was, of course, the bench-clearing brawl incited by the Padres' Chris Young, who threw a 1-2 pitch up and in to Derrek Lee (at first, we thought it had hit him in the head; apparently, it hit him in the upper left arm). Lee walked slowly out toward Young, the two had words, and Lee swung the first punch.

Now, all of us know that Derrek Lee is one of the nicest guys in baseball, always calm and collected. I cannot imagine what Young must have said to enrage him enough to swing a punch at him, knowing full well that such an act would likely result in a suspension (we're guessing ten games, reduced to seven on appeal). Young was also ejected, after at first it appeared he would be allowed to stay in the game (he threw a few warmup pitches); we figured he was probably tossed for his own safety, if not for the wild punches he threw. Neither Young nor Lee connected on their swings, and like most baseball fights, no one was seriously hurt (although I bet Lou Piniella will be pretty sore tomorrow, after being knocked on his butt -- remember, the guy's almost 64 years old!).

Supposedly, Alfonso Soriano's actions after he homered yesterday angered the Padres, particularly starter Jake Peavy:

On Friday, both Peavy and Padres left-hander David Wells had criticized Soriano for not "respecting" the game with his showboating on his home run.

"I didn't appreciate that," Peavy said. "Just play the game. They pay him $136 million to hit home runs. They don't pay him to be a circus act on the field. If I think a player shows me up like that, I like the next guy to take one in the stinking ribs. That way, his teammate will let him know about it, (and he'll) tell him 'Hey, you'd better run the bases.'

"Respect the game. That's the way it used to be. When you were growing up, did you see anybody act like that? Now it's accepted."

Well, I dunno. Whether he did this or not, is hitting Derrek Lee an appropriate response? Peavy was in the middle of this brawl too -- not a place, really, for a guy who wasn't even in the game. I hope Peavy also draws a suspension for his actions. Cubs hitting coach Gerald Perry was also in the middle of the action, and he too was ejected.

I give great credit to 3B coach Mike Quade, who did an excellent job of holding Carlos Zambrano back and out of the scrum. Knowing Z, he wanted to get right in there and back up his teammate who had been hit -- but under the circumstances, why get him tossed as well? Not only did Quade calm Z down, whatever he said must have made Z concentrate even further, because he really threw lights-out the entire game.

Dave said that the Cubs' defensive changes were going to hurt them -- and I might agree, considering that the two players (Mark DeRosa, going from 3B to 1B, and Ryan Theriot, going from SS to 3B) who switched positions, both made errors at their new slots. Instead of having Cesar Izturis run for Lee, Lou could have used Angel Pagan, and had Cliff Floyd switch to 1B and Pagan move to RF. Granted, Floyd hasn't played 1B in ten years -- although according to wheatfield mike, he did so in spring training (the week before I arrived there) -- but for a few innings, he probably could have handled it.

Daryle Ward is coming off the DL just in time, then (likely on Tuesday at Texas), because he'll be needed when Lee serves his suspension. If I had to guess, he'll get notice in the next couple of days, appeal, and try perhaps to time the seven games so that they coincide with the Washington/Pittsburgh road trip at the beginning of July -- you know, this is how things go today; players try to time suspensions so they do the least damage to their teams.

The Cubs couldn't do anything with Young's replacement, Justin Hampson, although Ryan Theriot got to 3B with one out in the fifth by doubling and stealing third. He was thrown out trying to score on a medium-deep fly ball to right hit by Z; it took a perfect throw by Terrmel Sledge to get him, and Sledge made one. It was a worthwhile risk in a 0-0 game in the 5th inning. Unfortunately, the Cubs had no further baserunners after that -- Hampson, Heath Bell (who was throwing 97 MPH heat) and Trevor Hoffman (career save #501) retired the last twelve Cub hitters.

Personally, I'd have sent up Pagan in the 9th with two out and no one on, rather than Jacque Jones -- who really doesn't hit well when he's coming off the bench, or these days, when starting, either -- to try to get someone on base for Floyd. But Lou didn't.

What more can you say? This game really did have just about everything. The Cubs got a terrific pitching performance out of Z, and unfortunately, he got outpitched by four Padres. Go out and get them tomorrow and you've won another series. That's all we can ask for.

Silly number note: when Jose Cruz came in to the game in the 7th, the three outfielders (positions numbered 7, 8 and 9 in your scorecard) were wearing uniform numbers 7 (Hiram Bocachica), 8 (Sledge) and 9 (Cruz). Only Cruz's position matched his uniform number of the three, though.

BCB's intrepid photographer David took some photos of the assembled BCB group -- but I have not yet received the photos, so I'll post tomorrow. Nice to see and meet all of you, and without question, you all got your money's worth today!

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Certain people are...
...complaining that a game like this is a huge blow, hard to take, devasting, etc. Although it always hurts to lose, this game is a prime example of the better team coming through and winning. This was SD's 11th shutout of the year and their third win with 2 or less hits (WOW!). This is a good team, the best pitching staff in baseball, and they just plain beat us.

I have been critical of this team in the past, mostly due to poor execution and lack of fundamentals. Those things are slowly getting better and I look forward to the next 25-30 games.

Let's rebound tomorrow and win this series!

PS...Al, I bet you can't wait to get your Sharpie tomorrow. ha ha ha
I wish Harry was still around to make fun of tomorrow's giveway.

"Me fail English? That's unpossible." Ralph Wiggum

by ilovepie on Jun 16, 2007 4:26 PM CDT reply actions  

yeah,
the doomsayers were kinda funny today. We lost an old-fashioned pitching duel to a team that we could very likely see in the playoffs.
 Let's just go out and take the series tomorrow.
Tinker to Evers to Chance.

by Matt Allison on Jun 16, 2007 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

This was just another loss.
Nothing more than that.  It's a game that you desperately want to win considering the brawl AND considering how well Zambrano pitched, but the Padres played a better game and at no point can someone say the Cubs had a chance to score other than when they sent Theriot, which was the right decision to make at the time.  This was never a game the Cubs SHOULD have won.  They got beat by a team that played slightly better than the Cubs did.  Great game.

I loved the fight too.  This team doesn't take shit from anybody.  About damn time!

by Maddog on Jun 16, 2007 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Completely agreed, Maddog.
Great game all around. Memorable. If the Cubs go on a winning streak now, you could say that this loss, tough as it was, energized them.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jun 16, 2007 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

I like this team, Al.
I know a lot of people are down on it, but I still think the Cubs win this division and it's a team that I really like.  I love how this team never gives up.  How many times have we seen them come right back or put the tying runner on base in the 9th inning?  Good teams do that.  

I think you can look at the game Lou got kicked out of and this team has been different ever since that happened (day after Z and Barrett got into it).  They'll fight each other (which happens), but when the time comes to come together, they do and they'll fight the other team if need be.  They're not a great team, but I think they're good enough to win what is going to be the worst division in baseball since MLB expanded to 6 divisions (and therefore probably the worst division in history...and I've got the numbers to prove it by god!).  Considering they won 66 last year, this is a good team.  The average improvement for a sub-70 win team since '94 is just 7 games and the Cubs are going to win more than 73 games.  I think they'll at least double the average improvement and possibly, if we're lucky, triple it.  

While this team seems to have come together since Lou got ejected, don't get me wrong.  I'm not going to credit him for what's happened.  I think it's more of a coincidence and this team was going to play better than they had been because they're a better team than they were playing, but I don't know for sure.  This team has also started to play better once Zambrano started pitching like he was capable of.  That's probably more of a reason than Lou getting ejected.  Maybe players who are struggling just need to beat up Michael Barrett to get back on track?

by Maddog on Jun 16, 2007 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

attitude has changed...playing as a team
However you cut it the intangible feeling teammates have for each go farther than most people give credit. Piniella is here to change the atmosphere and character of this club, there is no doubt, otherwise we would have Girardi. Piniella is instilling the 'us versus the universe' and no one is going to do anything for 'us' except 'us'. The 'crazy as a fox' gamebit that Piniella did when the Cubs were losing to Atlanta when Piniella said he was coming regardless had little to do with the umpire's close call and more to do with the "I am not going to take it anymore'...'who is with me'.

Now that is more than merely words, it is performance. In that time away...the club also kind of fused together, they are playing as a unit and not 25 individuals stuck together, they got much further to go but unless something changes they will continue to come together.

Case in point the ten games Ramirez has been out Cubs are 6-4, since Piniella was suspended---they are 9-5. It is the beginning of a positive trend.

Now...Lee's action today go that overall change...in Baker's era Lee would have taken first...but yesterday he confronted Young and the Padres....(again my thoughts are a beanball above the neck and the pitcher should get 10 games automatic...second offense 30 games and third one year....appeal for reinstatement...MLB pitchers should be able to control the pitches in that area...period.

Rally around each other is all you got if you are a team. Now there have been other changes.  Pie is the starting CF'er...lineup is basically stablized, but Barrett is now a part time starter; Floyd is the starting RF'er and has anyone seen Eyre in anything but a mop up or must?
Murton was moved (and regardless of what the love here states, I heard he was moved because of not willing to listen when performance has fallen.)

Murton will be moved....he might become a MLB solid contributor but Perry and Piniella have tried to work with him and he is not listening. Recall that Murton changed his stance this year (I suspect from some suggestion to conceivably generate more power which was not happening. Also if you recall Piniella also had an early conversation with him regarding stances and approaches to the science of hitting...interestingly now there are two starters in AAA from last year...Cedeno & Murton.)

Cubs are 31-36, have picked up 4 games against the .500 standard since Piniella's tirade...They are staying within striking distance of Milwaukee and let us see what the next 3 weeks produce.

Crossroads....Cubs continue to play better than .600 ball are or above .500 by the All Star break  (15 games till half way point, 3rd game of Washington series), If they go 10-5 they will have gone 19-10 since Piniella's tirade and righted the ship. At that point can the Cubs and Hendry start buying and selling?  

Harry Carey: 3 & 2, 2-out, no place to put him...tying run on 3rd...winning run on 2nd...THE PITCH....HEE POOOOPPPED....IT UP!

by Ivy Walls on Jun 17, 2007 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

RE: buyers or sellers
I look at them as sellers in either instance... whether they right the ship or not.

They have parts that don't fit: Jones & Murton...

Plus, when A-Ram returns and D-Lee's likely suspension is done with... they'll have to move someone off the roster. In the infield they'll have DeRosa, Theriot, Fontenot, and Izuseless... plus Ward (who's listed at 1B).

In the OF, they'll have Soriano, Pie, Floyd, Pagan, and Jones.

Jones is the most likely candidate. They can run the platoon in RF with Floyd and Pagan... then still have another left-handed bat on the bench with Ward. In the infield, Fontenot is playing too well to send back down, plus the Fontenot-Theriot DP tandem has shown great chemistry.

Jones has gotta go. Somehow... Anyhow... just make it happen. Cut your losses and move on.    

1-RUN GAMES = 6-14 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 15-19 | updated on 6/17

by SackMan on Jun 17, 2007 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

At least
At least this didn't happen at Wrigley today. I laughed my butt off

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jYpgvhvhTQE

I am happy to see the Cubs aren't taking crap from anyone this year. Sure Lee will be suspended, but it'll be worth it in the long run.

by pmenadue on Jun 16, 2007 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

That was hilarious
could you imagine Young running away llke that little bitch.

by eamuscatuli1881 on Jun 17, 2007 6:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

This was especially tough
taking a non-no that deep, than losing 1-0 to a team that already beat you earlier in the year in 14 innings at home.
1-RUN GAMES = 6-13 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 15-18 | updated on 6/15

by SackMan on Jun 16, 2007 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Eric Milton
Didnt eric milton have a no-hitter with 2 outs in the 9th at wrigley back in 2004. and then we got a double and it seems like a homerun to tie the game and take it into extras. or maybe that game was in philly. seems like i remember that sequence though. maybe im daydreaming again too.

by bennyha on Jun 16, 2007 4:34 PM CDT reply actions  

Milton's no-hitter...
... that lasted into the 9th, was in Philadelphia.

Here's the game you're thinking of.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jun 16, 2007 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

ahhhh yes indeed
atleast i wasnt daydreaming it. just happened at a different park. good to know i still have some sanity left in me :-) thanks al

by bennyha on Jun 16, 2007 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Small Correcton...
Al - it was Bocachica that threw out Theriot at home, not Sledge.

by aliencub on Jun 16, 2007 4:37 PM CDT reply actions  

I see...
... you are correct by the play-by-play. It looked like Sledge from where we were, but you're right.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jun 16, 2007 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Before the HR...
You folks in the stands some 360' away have good eyes; especially since you were not right behind the mound.  Z should have had Branyon on either of those pitches.  

I have to wonder though is he is own worst enemy.  He constantly buzzes around the plate and lets some of the off speed stuff get too far away.  IMHO if he weren't such a constant full-count pitcher - though today he was a bit more economic in his pitch count - perhaps he would get the border line calls more often.  

I do have to say though I think he got screwed on the belt-high fastball on the outer edge.

da-da-daddio

by blackhawk24 on Jun 16, 2007 4:48 PM CDT reply actions  

Well Al, do you still want to
get rid of Z?

Do you see how we have no one close to him?

If he walks, this team is f'd without a replacement. Sorry, but no one on the staff has Z's stuff.

People jump to comclusions very quickly when the fact is his career has shown a very successful track record.

He is still only 26.

What were you like at 26?

The umpires in today's game truly are terrible. Worse than I have ever seen them.

Is it too early to be out of it, or too early to be this far behind?

by TheEman on Jun 16, 2007 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Home plate umpire
He was in over his head in today's game.  By not escorting Lee down to first, he allowed an already heated situation worsen considerably.  Also, in the last three innings, his strike zone seemed to shrink on Z while expand for the boys in brown.  At least one of those strikes from Hoffmann to Pie was a ball.  I hate how we never hear if an umpire is reprimanded for his conduct on the field COUGH JIM WOLF COUGH...

I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize missourah - Grandpa Simpson

by MrFurious on Jun 16, 2007 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

The people
who jumped to the conclusion that Zambrano needs to be traded so quickly need to remember this in the future.  Players with a proven track record are every bit as good as that track record would indicate.  That's especially true for someone Z's age.  If he wasn't injured, it was only a matter of time before he reverted towards his career numbers, which did begin, in fact, on May 15th in New York.  Since then he has a 3.16 ERA and 10 of the 19 earned runs he's allowed in that span were scored in 2 separate innings.  Other than those 2 innings, Zambrano has had an ERA 1.64 since May 15th.  

by Maddog on Jun 16, 2007 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well...
... you all make good points. Yes, my statement that Z needed to be dealt was obviously made in haste. He has looked in his last five starts like the Z we have known in the past.

More importantly, he seems to have channeled his passion and energy into his pitching rather than in other directions -- and if that's the way he's going to be the rest of the year, I want him on my team, absolutely, now and in the future.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jun 16, 2007 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

What I liked about Zambrano today
was that he was in the clubhouse when Lee got hit and heard the fight taking place and ran back onto the field and he seemed to be the most irritated guy on the field at that point.  He just wants to fight.  Anyone.  Everyone.  That's someone you want on your team in my opinion.

by Maddog on Jun 16, 2007 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

It seemed once again that his emotions
got to him, when Theriot couldn't come up with that grounder to 3rd... he went 3-0 on the next batter, and you could just tell he was distracted. He's GOT TO KEEP FOCUS out there. But, that part of his game hasn't changed... and I don;t think it ever wiil.

Before he gave up that dinger, Hill came out to the mound. I was guessing it was to say something like this, "I know this guy hasnt done squat against you, but don't overlook him. Stay on your game."

Of course, he then gave uo a HR to a guy batting like .150 lifetime against him with a %50 strikeout ratio.    

1-RUN GAMES = 6-13 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 15-18 | updated on 6/15

by SackMan on Jun 16, 2007 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think you can fault Z for Branyan's HR
that was a good pitch, sinking fastball dropping out of the zone.  Branyan just put the bat on it and muscled out... it happens.  

by eamuscatuli1881 on Jun 16, 2007 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

LOL
0-1, officially, since this was the first "real" BCB day.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jun 16, 2007 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well in that case
It's time to end this terrible tradition!  ;)
Go Nebraska Football!

by sanantonecub on Jun 16, 2007 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

yeah lol
but if every BCB game has a brawl in it then it will be worth it
GO CUBS GO!!!!!!

by roach on Jun 16, 2007 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Does this game..
..change any of the decision-making in trade priorities?  

It sounded like Z received much love from the hometown crowd today, but after this game you have to think his trade value won't get much higher.  But now the team has Lee suspended, Ramirez still out and a bevy of inexperienced players in Pie, Fontenot and Theriot.  

I hate to say it, but the Cubs need to make up their minds on Z soon: make him your best offer in an extension or get something for him.    

Chicks dig the long ball

by Will23 on Jun 16, 2007 4:56 PM CDT reply actions  

I wish Lee thought about the repercussions some.
Right now this team is struggling to score runs, what with Aramis out and all, and he took arguably the biggest bat out of our line-up on a day when we really could have used it.  Having Izturis batting third is not ideal.  Now they will have to play without him for a while, and we know how that turned out last year.  I am not a doomsayer, but I am worried...

by MrFurious on Jun 16, 2007 4:57 PM CDT reply actions  

Is there...
going to be another BCB bleachers day in the near future? I missed out because I was doing some prep for my service trip to Mississippi next week.
Do you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth?

by Keith on Jun 16, 2007 5:02 PM CDT reply actions  

I have no specific plans for one...
... but if there are a lot of people who'd like to come, and can all agree on a specific date, we can try to arrange another one.

In any case, any time any of you can make it to the bleachers, please join us.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jun 16, 2007 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

I hope
Peavy gets suspended for his remarks in the newspaper in addition to his role in the fight today.  As soon as I saw those remarks this morning, I told my wife there would be a bench-clearing brawl today.  I would maybe accept an outside chance that Young's pitch to DLee was an accident, if he didn't egg him on after the pitch, saying "just go to first base" instead of offering some sort of apology.

To be fair, I also hate Soriano's antics, but headhunting DLee, widely accepted to be one of the nicest, most professional guys in baseball, is just beyond absurd.

by paulucla on Jun 16, 2007 5:35 PM CDT reply actions  

Couldn't agree more
I think Soriano should know better.  But to take it out on D-Lee is ridiculous.  I hope they take D-lee's history into account when doling out suspensions.  I think it will be less than 10.  Barrett got 10 for throwing a punch that landed.  D-Lee never made contact.  We are getting a bad reputation out there.  I hope it unites this team and we continue to win ball games.  

by mgfabc on Jun 16, 2007 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Bob Brenley
I got a kick out of how he wanted Z to plunk their first batter in the next inning.  Does anyone else think that the catcher was distracting the ump on purpose?

by coral on Jun 16, 2007 5:38 PM CDT reply actions  

No Way...
It looked like the Ump started the conversation in the first place.  He did a horrible job officiating that situation.

I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize missourah - Grandpa Simpson

by MrFurious on Jun 16, 2007 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rapada
If the game is out of hand tomorrow, bring Rapada in to pitch and have him plunk somebody, then send him back down to AAA before he can be suspended, and activiate Ward for the next series.

by Invalid User on Jun 16, 2007 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

How about a game Al
Similar to that played at Talking Chop to make the games a little more fun around here.  Perhaps even to change our luck a little bit.

Here's an explanation of their game
http://www.talkingchop.com/special/nahwal  

Once they tried to steal my heart, beat it right outta my head But baby they didn't know that I was born dead I am the iceman, fighting for the right to live

by sandbergformanager on Jun 16, 2007 5:39 PM CDT reply actions  

for what it's worth....
I think it's already fun around here

by coral on Jun 16, 2007 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, I thought I'd be a part of history today
I was even fanatsizing about the moment I'd call my dad from my seats and tell him I just watched Z's no-no.

I even thought about how I'd frame my ticket and put it on the wall in the home office.

More dreams shattered... that's the life of a Cub fan.

Props to Al for calling a beaning today. You just knew it was gonna happen. I can't beleive we couldn't muster up 1 friggin run today... and of course the only run comes from the guy who's struck out 16 times vs Z. Unreal.  

1-RUN GAMES = 6-13 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 15-18 | updated on 6/15

by SackMan on Jun 16, 2007 5:53 PM CDT reply actions  

And I felt the same way...
during the "Bartman Game".

You have to dissuade yourself from this thinking when one is a Cub fan. Please. For your own sake.

Should you or I even be in the same position again, we MUST pledge to wait. Wait until the final out. Wait until we see the umpire actually raise his hand with thumb extended.

THEN, we call our dads and friends, and look for frames to display our tickets.

Is it too early to be out of it, or too early to be this far behind?

by TheEman on Jun 16, 2007 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hey Soriano
Lesson learned? I hope so.
Josh Kroeger. Remember the name. Stay tuned for the fame.

by tharr on Jun 16, 2007 6:04 PM CDT reply actions  

So Soriano...
Cannot celebrate his HR? but Manny, Bonds and many others can?

Keep in mind that Soriano and Wells were teammates and there is probably history there.

Let me get back to you, will ya, Charlie? I got a guy on the other line asking about some white walls.

by JB 23 on Jun 16, 2007 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

I know it's not nice...
but he has a right to express himself. Some people may not like it, but they need to move and just get him out next time. I think that's the best way to make players shut up. He has a reason to celebrate if he just hit a homerun(I didn't see it BTW).
"I don't talk. I just let what I do talk for myself." -Johan Santana

by sparkles721 on Jun 16, 2007 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

What Soriano did was awful
YOu do NOT showboat after a homer like that. I don't think Peavy was right for suggesting someone let alone someone OTHER than Soriano be hit for it but it was totally against the code of conduct in baseball to do what Soriano did and he does need to learn to NOT do that again.
"It's the Cubbies. There's always a vibe. It's the greatest vibe in baseball." Greg Maddux on Cub fan's optimism even after the 06 debacle.

by jessica on Jun 16, 2007 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Is this on youtube?
I read everyone's posts and I don't think I can picture this moonwalk thing.

I'm just grouping it into the category of the posing after homeruns. Many players do that and I do have a problem with it sometimes. However, they can do it if they want. It's become part of the game, and if Branyan had done that yesterday to see of course I would've been mad. The Cubs just lost the game. I think I would've been mad more because of the result than the actions after.

I just don't think I can think like baseball players would. I seriously believe that the next time I would just do everything possible to get the guy out and not deal with him and just move on. I guess I'm too passive?

"I don't talk. I just let what I do talk for myself." -Johan Santana

by sparkles721 on Jun 17, 2007 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Soriano Moon Walk
Basically he watched it from home plate for a second and then he started jogging backwards towards first base (with the bat still in his hand) while continuously admiring his homerun.

He didn't turn around and run forwards until the ball was bouncing on Waveland.

I hate this kind of crap too.  You never caught Sandberg or Dawson doing that stuff.  Sigh.  Whatever happened to put your head down and run "like you've done it before?"

There's always next year.

by BJ Simpson on Jun 18, 2007 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sosa
has done it nearly 600 times.
hey, hey, cubs win.

by cubbyblue137 on Jun 17, 2007 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Soriano should respect the traditions
of the game. He didn't. As a result of his need to showboat, Lee got plunked and ended up in a fight and will be suspended for probably 7 days. The team will suffer without him as it did today.

If the tables were turned would you have liked to see Branyan moonwallk in the 9th after his HR? Ultimately our actions have consequences.    And, as a result of Soriano's actions, the Cubs  have suffered a setback.  It's foolish to suggest Soriano didn't screw up.

Josh Kroeger. Remember the name. Stay tuned for the fame.

by tharr on Jun 16, 2007 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Tharr...I agree...
...but you don't throw at DLee. Throw at Soriano if you're going to hit somebody. He's the instigator.

by bergs55 on Jun 16, 2007 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Answer me.
If Soriano hadn't acted out would Lee be on his way to a 7 day suspension? So, would you suggest Soriano should or should not have moonwalked. We can't control who the Pads threw at. All we could control were the actions of Soriano which precipitated the chain of events.

In the end, the Cubs are a worse team as a result of Soriano's childishness.

Josh Kroeger. Remember the name. Stay tuned for the fame.

by tharr on Jun 17, 2007 12:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

I strongly disagree.
Yes, Soriano's actions were wrong.

But the Padres took it out on the wrong guy. What did Lee do?

So, now we have bad blood with San Diego. And Atlanta. Who's next?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jun 17, 2007 4:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

That usually doesn't carry over...
... except in the minds of some sportswriters.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jun 17, 2007 4:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

What do you strongly disagree with?
I never claimed the Pads weren't wrong. All I have ever tried to point out was that Soriano crossed the line. And, as a result, Lee will be suspended and the Cubs will suffer. Smart players have to consider consequences. Soriano did not, and, apparently from his subsequent conversations, still doesn't get it.

It's easy to fall into a goon mentality. It's tougher to keep an eye on the prize, which is winning games. This whole set of events was avoidable.

Josh Kroeger. Remember the name. Stay tuned for the fame.

by tharr on Jun 17, 2007 5:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

No, you take it out on a ....
...teammate. Once Lee, Aram and the rest get tired of being thrown at, they'll police Soriano and take care of the problem.

I would love to read the posts here if we had seen a moonwalk in the top 9th yesterday and Z went bonkers. The posts would be 180 from what we see now.

Also, I'm not sure Lee was even thrown at after watching the replays. In fact, I'd say the odds are about 80% against the pitch being intentional.

El Jefe

by Reverend Jim Ignatowski on Jun 17, 2007 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

meh
maybe soriano got a bit carried away. if they wanted to get someone for that, they should've hit the next guy. or hit soriano his next time up.

throwing at lee's head is another matter entirely. if you want to look for a connection, or a payback i say look at this: for the second time this year one of our star players has lit a team up, then had a ball thrown at his head the next day. in neither case did the umpires do their jobs and toss the head-hunter. so i doubt anyone in the clubhouse is looking at soriano as the bad guy here. i hope he hits three more tomorrow and does the electric slide to first.

and in summary, i hate the padres and steve garvey.

by billywan on Jun 16, 2007 11:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Z 's AB in the 8th
In the 8th, Z was clearly hacking for the fences with two out.  I wanted him to hit one out SO badly, just to see what he would have done.

Z is crazy enough that he might have done a cartwheel, or bowed towards the SD bench while crossing home plate.  And there would have been at least two curtain calls.

Either way, the next Padre pitch would have been behind Soriano's head.

by Invalid User on Jun 16, 2007 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

I hope
I hope Soriano put another onto Waveland and does a fucking cartwheel over second.

Keep the hate train rolling!

by wjblol on Jun 17, 2007 2:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Whatever
It's the greatest think ever, if your boy, Murton, does it.  Of course, Murton has hit less home runs than Fontenot, so he never gets a chance to show-off.  Lou's fault of course...  
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!

by CubFaninCA on Jun 16, 2007 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Your comments
are beyond stupid. If Murton did it, he'd be just as wrong as Soriano was. Show me one instance where I approved of showboating or just shut up with your false accusations.
Josh Kroeger. Remember the name. Stay tuned for the fame.

by tharr on Jun 16, 2007 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

your incessant whining gets old
all you do is whine over and over about the same group of players..
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!

by CubFaninCA on Jun 17, 2007 1:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

As usual you generalize
because you're you are apparently to dull to think in a straight line. Perhaps you need to hire someone to do your thinking for you.

This all began because I criticized Soriano's grandstanding which will lead to the ultimate loss of Lee for numerous games. As a result you complained about Murton which had nothing to do with the issue at hand. If you're not capable of separating the two then perhaps this space is above your grade level.

Josh Kroeger. Remember the name. Stay tuned for the fame.

by tharr on Jun 17, 2007 3:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Marcus Giles
"I'm not blaming either guy. It's heat of the moment, D-Lee just reacted. I'm not saying D-Lee was wrong and I'm not saying Chris was wrong."  

Despite the fact that he absolutely kills Cubs pitchers, I really like this guy.  Seems like a real class act.  

by eamuscatuli1881 on Jun 16, 2007 6:08 PM CDT reply actions  

Giles was also the guy playing peacemaker
He can be seen trying to calm down his teamates
I can't tell if he was holding back Young or Peavy but he was working is butt off to keep the fighting down
"It's the Cubbies. There's always a vibe. It's the greatest vibe in baseball." Greg Maddux on Cub fan's optimism even after the 06 debacle.

by jessica on Jun 16, 2007 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah
he basically tackled Young to get him away.

by eamuscatuli1881 on Jun 17, 2007 6:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

The Padres are
basically a AAA/old team. There pitching is good but they don't have a single player over 300. There is no way this cubs team should lose to them.
GO CUBS GO!!!!!!

by roach on Jun 16, 2007 6:14 PM CDT reply actions  

If the Padre's are so bad
How come they are 11 games above .500 and STILL not performing to they Pythagorean?
Go Nebraska Football!

by sanantonecub on Jun 16, 2007 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Their offense is bad...
but they have two studs at the front of their rotation. That's why they win. And maybe because of some 'clutch' hitting? ;)
"I don't talk. I just let what I do talk for myself." -Johan Santana

by sparkles721 on Jun 16, 2007 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

a AAA team????
They the lowest ERA in all of MLB!!
Tinker to Evers to Chance.

by Matt Allison on Jun 16, 2007 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

talking more
hitting wise
GO CUBS GO!!!!!!

by roach on Jun 16, 2007 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Padres offense
FYI, the Padres score about the same number of runs per game on the road as the Cubs.  Their home park kills offense so much (SD's home ERA this season is 2.36!) that it gives the false impression that they aren't a good hitting club.

by Tracy on Jun 17, 2007 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

There have been
a few events in some of the games this year that took me by surprise but I was just stunned by todays events.

So are we to assume if we are playing is a series and Soriano hits a homerun the next day one of our players will get hit? I hope that's not the case.

I hope Hill pitches lights out tomorrow and we get more runs than the Padres.

Men who whine are so unattractive. This place is full of them.

by sue369 on Jun 16, 2007 6:43 PM CDT reply actions  

No, but you can assume that if ...
...Soriano hits a HR then acts like an ass a teammate will be plunked. The philosophy being teammates need to police themselves. Sooner or later the Cubs will get tired of being hit and suspended and tell Soriano to grow up and act like a ballplayer.
El Jefe

by Reverend Jim Ignatowski on Jun 16, 2007 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

i didn't see a lot of showboating in atlanta
he just happened to hit three homeruns. ramirez is worse than him.
I don't care about a world series, just be competitive thru September.

by buckmulligan on Jun 16, 2007 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

there's a difference between plunked...
...and having a fastball thrown at your head. if one wants to take the high road here and talk about "unwritten rules" like not watching a home run, next on the list is not throwing at someone's head.

i think in both recent bean ball incidents, it was more the location than the beaning that was a problem.

by billywan on Jun 16, 2007 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

damnit
brewers up 4-1 in the 7th. they have been playing pretty decent of late

by bennyha on Jun 16, 2007 8:07 PM CDT reply actions  

decent?
they are playing great. they just took 2 from the tigers and have taken the first two from minnesota on the road. i'm shocked and frightened.
I don't care about a world series, just be competitive thru September.

by buckmulligan on Jun 16, 2007 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

series before that they almost got swept
against the rangers, who have the worst record in baseball. and they got no-hit last week last week to boot. but yeah u r correct taking 2 of 3 from the tigers and in position to sweep the twins is dang good baseball. i too am worried. they have some real good young guys in 3B ryan braun and the pitcher they just brought up to replace capuano is a real stud prospect and is only 21 years old. they definately are going to be tough to catch.

by bennyha on Jun 16, 2007 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not
They're very good, but they aren't the second coming of the '27 Yankees. They're beatable, as the Cubs have shown so far this season (I believe their record vs. the Crew is 5-4).

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 16, 2007 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Call out the ump
 Home plate umpire was the difference in the game. He should have escorted Lee to first. He should have at least asked him if was Ok. How about a warning like in Atlanta. How about an ejection like in atlanta. How about a consistent strike zone. The Cubs hitters were off balance by his unique calls low and outside were strikes except when z threw one in the ninth. He's an ass and should be sent to AA ball.

by GHCF2314 on Jun 16, 2007 8:55 PM CDT reply actions  

The HP umpire was arguing...
...with the catcher who thought the pitch resulted in a foul ball. The ump should have moved out, but ultimately it was Lee who walked out towards the mound, started the talking and threw the first punch. As Cub hitters get hit more and more for Soriano's antics maybe they will direct their anger towards him.
El Jefe

by Reverend Jim Ignatowski on Jun 16, 2007 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

There are 4 umpires
on the field, where were the rest of them? The umpire at first base easily could have ran in as soon as words flew. This was handled wrong by the umpires.

Agreed on Soriano, you just can't dance like that without revenge.

This is Harry Carray, goodbye from Wrigley Field and So Long Everybody.

by mrcubsfan on Jun 17, 2007 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yabbut...
... why revenge, in the FOURTH inning, against another player? That makes no sense.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jun 17, 2007 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

It makes perfect sense....
...you do it when and where it is least expected. Plus, you most certainly retaliate against another player (as has been done for 100+ years) so that the teammates of the jerk will take control of the situation.

Besides, as I posted upstream, I don't think the pitch was intentional. This was all DLee overreacting (although I certainly empathize with him).

El Jefe

by Reverend Jim Ignatowski on Jun 17, 2007 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Dude
It's a HBP...not Lee's first day going to first base, no need for big strapping umpire to hold his hand so the mean old Padres don't beat him up, if you look at it, he did that on his own.
Faith Plus One - Contributing Editor -http://www.inaleagueofherown.com

by Faith plus 1 on Jun 16, 2007 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Didn't Lou
Want 'swagger?' I don't really condone that stuff, but Soriano has really come around and the guy seems happy again. He let his emotions get away, for 1 stinkin play. I guess the Pads feel they own the Cubs, so 1 loss breaks their f'ing heatrs.

The Padres are filled with punks, except for Maddux.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jun 16, 2007 9:58 PM CDT reply actions  

yeah,
where was maddog during the brawl?
I don't care about a world series, just be competitive thru September.

by buckmulligan on Jun 16, 2007 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

to hell with Maddux
A couple good years with the Cubs and many great years with the Braves and suddenly he's some hometown hero.

Either way, him pitching tomorrow is not going to help our cause.  Here's hoping to us lighting him up just like we did to Glavine .. without the bullpen blowing it.

by wjblol on Jun 17, 2007 2:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

Personally,
I bet this REALLY brings this team together.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jun 16, 2007 10:10 PM CDT reply actions  

It's what we needed
we're in the race now. This team will pull together and end their fighting with each other and swagger on against the NL!
This is Harry Carray, goodbye from Wrigley Field and So Long Everybody.

by mrcubsfan on Jun 17, 2007 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

the loss today
is really festering for me, as the brewers won and the cardinals are killing the A's. damn. what a performance by Z. a real shame. got to hope to get to maddux tomorrow.
I don't care about a world series, just be competitive thru September.

by buckmulligan on Jun 16, 2007 10:16 PM CDT reply actions  

On the brawl
I was at the game today and was lucky enough to have dugout box seats (took my dad for an early fathers day).  

Well despite Derek walking pretty close to Young after getting hit Young said something to him that caught Derek off guard.  If you watch the replay on any channel Derek goes and says "what did you say?".  That triggered the fight.

One can only wonder what kind of comment was said to trigger Derek but I'm sure it was something close to home.  

Everyone in my section clearly saw Young say something too.  There apparently was no camera on Young during this as ESPN and WGN haven't aired it from that angle.    

by ak123 on Jun 16, 2007 10:33 PM CDT reply actions  

my junior lip reading
it looked to me like lee was saying something about him throwing at his head, and young said "just take your base." nothing too horrible, but maybe the tone and the fact that young was walking towards lee set lee off....

by billywan on Jun 16, 2007 11:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Conversation
To me it looked like Lee said something, Young said take your base and pointed.  Then Lee said something and Young started to say "mother" and got cut off by Lee.

by Arbusto on Jun 17, 2007 8:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Some advice as I see it....
Soriano: When you hit one like he did, yes you get to watch it.

Wells/Peavey: When someone hits one like that off you that means you just screwed up. Mistakes have consequences, grown men can usually deal with them, if you don't like it then maybe strike him out next time instead of giving up a 700ft HR. Nobody pisses and moans much when a teams tosses the ball around the horn after a K in celebration. In short...boo-frickin-hoo.

Young: Um..you went to Princeton right? I would think for an Ivy League Man you would have a little more class than what you showed today. If you can get Derrek Lee to take a swing at you, your asshole rating has to be up there with Terrell Owens, Allen Iverson and Albert Belle. Oh..and thank Marcus Giles for saving you life. You do realize that Derrek would have tied your freakishly long legs into a knot don't you?

Derrek: Wow. I never would have thought YOU would be the guy to blow up. Next time, lead with the shoulder and step inside the pitchers front foot, you'll land a more effective punch.  

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 16, 2007 11:44 PM CDT reply actions  

The contradiction that I see
Soriano was happy to make a big play (a HR).  Why not enjoy it?  He showed his excitement briefly and then ran around the bases with his head down.  He wasn't staring down wells or anything like that.

Wells, on the other hand, dancing around the mound all afternoon when he didn't get a call.  He danced, pouted and pranced, yelled and screamed.  Nobody calls him out for that.

by Arbusto on Jun 17, 2007 8:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

Kum-ba-yah... a disseration on the Cubs
I like what I have seen lately.  I like what I have seen lately, a lot.

I mean yeah they lost the game yesterday, but with the offense left on the field for the Cubs after the incident, it was pretty doubtful they would've scored on that Padres vaunted bullpen anytime soon, so be it.  Scratch that off, IMO.

I really like the direction this team is going, once we get all our suspensions over, I have extremely high hopes now for this team.  In the last three weekends, here's what we've learned:

  1. Two players fight in the dugout, could easily create a rift in the clubhouse.  Not here.  Barrett has taken a beating in the media and with the fans, but by most accounts, the players are rallying behind him.  The instigator, Zambrano, could've easily been ostracized by his teammates, but no, he has vowed to "begin" his season over and appears to have regained his confidence in his pitching, which has regained the team's confidence in him.
  2. Lou is an old man, and a hard ass, and he may not be a "player's manager" but by God, he will fight for his players.  The team, and anyone else that watched ESPN for the next week, saw how much Lou will fight for his players.  His outburst and subsequent four-game suspension proved as much, and I believe that this was not lost on the players at all.
  3. The Cubs now have a chip on their shoulder.  After the incident in Atlanta, I believe the Cubs felt like we all did, that they were getting hosed and with Lilly being tossed in the first inning, it was basically an "us against them" philosophy.  Nothing says team chemistry like getting backed into a corner.
  4. And finally today's incident, the team's quiet leader, the first one in the clubhouse to break up Z vs. Barrett immediately when word hit the dugout, in a fracas of his own.  In his opinion, he felt that his health was in danger and when a team comes out to defend their players, even to be "peace keepers", it brings the team together even more.
People are kind of getting on Lee's case about not thinking about the consequences.  I think he did lose his temper, I don't know if he intended on getting in another fight; however, I do think he was thinking about the consequences of his actions even during the fight.  If you watch it, and I'm sure you'll get a few hundred more tries, Lee swings at Young, Young takes two swings at Lee and Giles tackles Young.  Lee is standing there by himself and could very easily run towards Young and Giles and just start pummeling him, but no, he doesn't.  Next time you watch it, watch the route he takes.  He starts running towards them but he takes a very circuitous route to file in behind Lou as he sees him leading the charge from the dugout.  I think the precedent is set in MLB punishments that if you land a punch, it's worse than if you just throw one.  I believe Lee knew this could get much worse but he LET Lou get between him and the Padres to avoid further problems.  

This team is internally forgiving and healing from #1, an act that breeds for lack of a better term, brotherly love.

This team is energized by their skipper from #2, an act that shows loyalty by them and in turn, breeds loyalty to him.

This team is impassioned by this "us vs. them" philosophy from #3, an act that breeds team togetherness and loyalty to each other.

This team is united, especially after #4, an act that hopefully can breed further resurgence.  

As it was happening yesterday, I turned to my wife and said, "a team that fights together, wins together."  She laughed at me, but I believe it.  I believe this team is gelling as an actual team, and with all sorts of players acquired through free agency in the off-season, this is no easy task.  Players are picking each other up, more and more players are contributing, (even Cesar Izworthless came through the other day!) and I think the confidence this team has with themselves, each other and the team as a whole is really developing.

I think the fact that they are now 6.5 games back of the Brewers is a good thing.  I think right now, the best thing for this team as they come together, is to have a common goal.  That common goal is catching the Brewers.  I would much rather have a team that struggles early and makes a run to the playoffs in August and September, then a team that jumps out early and plays even keel the rest of the season.  We all found out in 2003, what a hot team can do when they reach the playoffs (The Cubs were hot, and the Marlins were even hotter!)

I firmly believe that this team can and will win the division, and I think if they get on a roll and play to their capability, I'm not even sure it ends there.  But first things first, let's go win this series today.  Let's go Cubbies!  I'm out.

by eamuscatuli1881 on Jun 17, 2007 7:38 AM CDT reply actions  

I don't know WTF took so long
to TOSS Young from the game. The umpire crews we've seen lately have been ridiculous. It wasn't until a simultaneous chant of "toss him out" from my section in 209 and somewhere in the leftfield corner that the umps finally ejected him.
1-RUN GAMES = 6-13 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 15-18 | updated on 6/15

by SackMan on Jun 17, 2007 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah
IMO, Lee started it, but Young did throw a punch so I didn't see why he was still in the game and why Bud Black was so pissed about it.  If Lee tackles him and pummels him, then I could see that but Young didn't exactly run away.

by eamuscatuli1881 on Jun 17, 2007 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Good point...
...about the fight potentially building camaraderie with the clubhouse.  Reminds me of the 2000 White Sox and their brawl with the Tigers.  That brawl seemed to do the same thing and though the playoffs were a failure for our southern cousins that year, they did end up with a division title.

by 60613 on Jun 17, 2007 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

I had forgotten that.
There were some earlier teams -- notably the A's of the 70's, and the 1980 Phillies -- who united around a dislike of their manager. Though Dallas Green did a good job with the Phillies, he was a "my way or the highway" field manager, and the players hated him. They used that anger to unite and win.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jun 17, 2007 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

The Phils
prior to Green won the Division in 1976-77-78. In the first two years they won over 100 games under Danny Ozark. Green joined the team as manager in mid-year 1979 when Danny Ozark was fired.

In 1980 the Phils won the WS and Green was gone after the strike shortened 1980 to become the GM of the Cubs.

Dallas wasn't much liked by his players but it's certainly not the reason the Phils won under him. The team was loaded with talent including Schmidt and Carlton.

After Lee spends his suspension, let's all get together and assess how the value of the so-called improved camaraderie has made up for the loss of one of our key players for a number of games.

For the life of me, I can't understand the unwillingness of some Cub fans to admit it's a bad thing. We had a nice groove going at the time and we didn't need another distraction to disturb that.

Josh Kroeger. Remember the name. Stay tuned for the fame.

by tharr on Jun 17, 2007 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Great post
and I agree with you.
Men who whine are so unattractive. This place is full of them.

by sue369 on Jun 17, 2007 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Interesting fact....
All 5 Pirates starters are from their farm system.  No other MLB team can boast that fact.   And they are only 2.5 games behind the Cubs.  What's wrong with our farm system?  Besides Theriot, Pie and Z, who are the other home-grown Cubbies on our roster?
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse

by ronsanto10 on Jun 17, 2007 8:25 AM CDT reply actions  

Pittsburg -they are only 2.5 games behind the Cubs
Yikes - who woulda thought we'd be pullin' for the palehose today??

Here's hoping to see win highlights on Comcast tonight for BOTH Chicago teams!

Go Cubbies!

by Bluelou on Jun 17, 2007 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

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