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An Eventful Day

Wow, where do I start?

How about here: the umpires got it right, regardless of what Ozzie Guillen thought, in the bizarre play in the 8th inning in which, at first, it appeared the White Sox might pull off a wacky triple play, and instead the Cubs wound up with the bases loaded and nobody out.

If you didn't see it, here's what happened: Angel Pagan singled following a Felix Pie walk (and that's hard to do -- before today he'd walked only nine times in over 140 plate appearances), thus putting runners on first and second. Mark DeRosa then hit a ball off the wall in right field, which bounced right back to RF Rob Mackowiak, who fired it to second base, where Pagan was standing just after rounding the base, both runners having held up because they thought the ball might have been caught.

But -- White Sox 2B Tadahito Iguchi (or maybe it was SS Juan Uribe, I wasn't sure) obstructed Pagan, and after two phone calls from Howard, it was explained to me this way:

When a fielder obstructs the runner on whom the play is being made, the play is dead and all runners return to their bases. If the play had been occurring somewhere else on the field at the time of the obstruction, the play would have been live and the White Sox might have had the weirdest triple play in history. Mike & I discussed this after the game and we agreed, neither one of us, over the course of more than 2000 games seen in person apiece, had ever seen anything quite like this before. I don't think the umpires had, either, which is why there was the extensive delay while they figured it out, and then had to explain it in English, Spanish and Japanese to all the parties involved.

Anyway, the Cubs wound up with the bases loaded and nobody out, and I said to Nick and Jesus, the nice Sox fans I've sat near the past several years at the Cell, "The Cubs have blown situations like this within the last week!"

Well, they didn't. A run scored on a fly ball by Koyie Hill, and then Pagan, not satisfied with having had one reprieve, got himself caught in a rundown and this time, actually tagged out, resulting in a player (Hill) having a sacrifice fly, RBI, and no time at bat charged, while hitting into a double play.

All this is a roundabout way of celebrating the Cubs' 3-0 shutout of the White Sox, completing their first-ever sweep at the Cell, winning the season series 5-1, and evening the all-time series at 30 wins apiece. And -- read this carefully, now -- the Cubs finished interleague play this year with the best record of any NL team, 8-4. And with the Brewers' 4-3 loss to the Royals in 11 innings, the Cubs cut a game off Milwaukee's lead today.

I have been flamed here in the past for saying that doing well in Cub/Sox series, particularly sweeping (as the Cubs did at Wrigley Field in 1998) can send that team on to bigger and better things. So I am not going to say that. But I will say this: over the weekend the Cubs got outstanding pitching, both from starters and the bullpen; excellent fielding (including a shoestring catch today by Pagan in CF that Paul Konerko, who hit the ball, moaned about, but it was caught only about 30 feet from where I was sitting. He caught it.), and timely hitting from just about everyone in the lineup, particularly Alfonso Soriano, who homered for the third day in a row, and who also gunned down Luis Terrero trying to score (why do runners do this? Soriano is nearly lights-out throwing people out at the plate) in the fifth, the closest the White Sox came to scoring today.

Keep doing that, and good things WILL happen.

Sean Marshall threw the third straight excellent game by a Cub starter. I assume that he was yanked after only 81 pitches because of either one of these factors: he was on a pitch count, or he told Lou Piniella he was gassed (when the sun finally came out after three days of gloom, it did get pretty hot and sticky). I'm guessing the latter. Marshall had a nice Rich Hill-like curveball working today and threw strikes throughout (54 of 81 pitches), walking only one. The bullpen was quite efficient, although Bob Howry, gathering his second save in two days, made it interesting by bringing the tying run (Mackowiak) to the plate before striking him out to end the game.

And that wasn't all for "eventful". As noted in this BCB diary, former Cub reliever Rod "Shooter" Beck was found dead in his Arizona home today, aged 38. No cause of death has been determined, though it has been said that they don't think foul play is involved. Beck set his career high in saves, 51, for the 1998 Cubs that won the wild card, and he was a key cog in that team and always popular with Cub fans. My condolences to his family.

Remember last May, when the Cubs were 6-20? The White Sox fans can identify. They are 5-17 so far in June (and lost their last five games in May, so they are 5-22 in their last 27 games), and the Sox fans I talked to are resigned to "2009", as Nick put it. Most of them were pretty nice to Cub fans, at least one of whom brought a white "W" flag to the LF bleachers today (no brooms were in evidence, though). I like what the Sox have done to the Cell since I was last there a year ago -- they've replaced all the blue seats with green ones, making the place more "ballpark-like"; in fact, the look now makes the Cell have somewhat of the feel of the old Comiskey, though of course in quite a bit larger structure. I should mention that they haven't replaced all of their blue seats -- they've left two of them, one in left field, one in right, representing, respectively, Paul Konerko's and Scott Podsednik's HR in game 2 of the 2005 World Series, a nice touch.

Someday, I kept thinking, we'll have memories like that for ourselves. Keep hope alive.

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To make up for the lack of brooms
At the Cell,

Cubs Sweep Sox! How sweet it is.  On to a pretty tough home-stand against the Rockies and Brewers!

Go Nebraska Football!

by sanantonecub on Jun 24, 2007 5:36 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

you talked about the Umps getting the whacky play
right, well somebody better get a hold of Hawk and tell him he can quit yelling "BS". Comcast should have a nice fine ready for him Monday.

by miamicanes on Jun 24, 2007 5:39 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Or at the very least...
... someone read him the rule book.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jun 24, 2007 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bringing the discussion back to fork in the season
Sweeping the Sox as a turnaround bridge actually has substance, not so much as a historical coincidence and more the trending for this team. In June the Cubs are now 13-10...(going 4-2) in the last week, meaning they have gone from this point in May: 2-8 (last 10 in May) and 11-16 overall...meaning....there was a stretch in May when the Cubs went....First the Cubs played .500 ball and now have a 3-game win streak and now playing in Wrigley...BUT....Wrigley they are 5 games below .500 this year.

As I looked ahead in another diary Cubs needed to make a move before the All Star break: They play a tough but emotionally spent Rockies team this week, they are much improved and a team with a real offense led by Holliday, Helton, rookie of the year SS Tuteleski(SIC) and Hawpe. Cubs better bring their #2 league starting ERA. Winning this series will be a continued positive move. (15-11 for June and 37-40 overall.

Then comes the weekend series (mid season showdown with the still hot Brewers who almost pulled another one today), with Milwaukee, (who are coming off the Astros at home) followed by a road trip to Washington and Pittsburgh. Simply winning the Brewer series and hopefully and hopefully picking up a game in the standings. Winning that series places the Cubs 39-41 (and 17-12 in June + 1).

Looking ahead Washington will probably be when D-Lee has to take his punishment for responding to a personal epitaph after being beaned, where my hopes we see the Cubs continue in their road victories going 5-2 and going into the break 44-43 and 22-14 since June 1st.

To do this the Cubs must continue to play like today, solid defense, timely hitting and excellent pitching and reducing mental mistakes!

BTW if they reach 44-43, they will still be 5-6 games back, but beginning actually contend.

Harry Carey: 3 & 2, 2-out, no place to put him...tying run on 3rd...winning run on 2nd...THE PITCH....HEE POOOOPPPED....IT UP!

by Ivy Walls on Jun 24, 2007 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Was
that English?

by jazzypete on Jun 24, 2007 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Video
Did anyone happen to Tivo/DVR his little tirade?

by wjblol on Jun 24, 2007 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can a broadcaster be fined for saying BS?
Technically he didn't say anything you couldn't say on the air, unless something slipped and I didn't catch it. I suppose they could fine him for acting like the asshat he is. He's a total amateur and his actions in the booth today just confirmed it even more, the SUX should be embarrased to have him calling games for them.
RAMIREZ!! PRIOR!!

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jun 24, 2007 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The FCC
can't fine him.  In fact, the FCC couldn't do anything because it was on cable.

If Comcast Sports Net or the White Sox wanted to fine him, they could.  But I seriously doubt they would as they encourage him doing those sorts of things.

by Josh77 on Jun 24, 2007 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The White Sox should fine him anyway
for absolutely destroying their franchise as GM, and driving out one the best managers in all of baseball: LaRussa.
1-RUN GAMES = 8-15 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 15-20 | updated on 6/23

by SackMan on Jun 24, 2007 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Da boat of dem
suck! They are the biggest crybaby whiners I have ever heard calling a major league sporting event. Their team is in the crapper and they bitch about everything---the sad part is the events that are happening are real, they have a skewed view of ANYTHING that happens negatively to the W Sux, even if it's correct. They whine all night when an ump is "alledgedly" squeezing their pitchers, but are all gleeful when it's the other team getting squeezed and they moan a call or two. Hawk has always been a crappy play by play guy and DJ must be watching a different game with his color analysis. What utter drecch they are!
"When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches."- Ron Santo

by BigJohnAZ on Jun 24, 2007 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

did he say
BS or bullshit?
PIE!!!

by LilLPLancer23 on Jun 24, 2007 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice Series After the Disaster in Texas
It feels great getting three from the Sox, but I'm a little worried about the Rockies. And this team finds ways to break my heart continually. It would be wonderful to get over .500 in the next week.

by markleonette on Jun 24, 2007 5:43 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm with you...
...the Rockies have won something like 20 out of their last 30 games.  I don't know that exactly, but they are nevertheless a scary team.

by WartburgCub on Jun 24, 2007 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're Right, 20 Out of 30
I went to the Rockies website, and if my counting is correct, they have won 20 of their last 30 games, dating back to May 22. The good news is they were swept this weekend, and were almost no-hit today.

by markleonette on Jun 24, 2007 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

god do i hate hawk
tapper comebacker--they gone!!! come on baby get up get out--you can put it on the board---yesssssss!! soriano hits another. the good guys lose. the sax werent packed with good guys. soriano was my pick to click!!!
Here comes the nasty leftie to shut it down in the 9th......Clay Rapada!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Jun 24, 2007 5:45 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah
That crap gets old fast......

by miamicanes on Jun 24, 2007 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My least favorite...
His constant references to "we" when referring to the Sox. I started yelling at the TV yesterday, and I only watched about two innings.
Tell me Gerald, what is this "walk" you speak of?

by Ross on Jun 24, 2007 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That doesn't bother me much
It's referring to the White Sox as the "good guys" all the time that boils me.

Like Juan "itchy trigger finger" Uribe could possibly be termed a "good guy."

by Josh77 on Jun 24, 2007 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We'll be sitting in the bleachers tomorrow night.
Let's see if the Cubs can take some of this momentum into the game. I don't want to see more base running blunders, though. That crap gets as old as Hawk. I'm also hoping to see Lee get out of his slump and hit a HR to one of us out there in the bleachers. Look for a group holding a RTMS sign.

by teacher tom on Jun 24, 2007 6:06 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Stop by in the LF corner and say hi!
n/t
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jun 24, 2007 8:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Regarding the play.....
I too was confused at the appropriate action.  It seemed to me, at the time, that the play should be called dead for defensive interference, with each player moving up a base (meaning Pie would've scored, DeRosa at 2B, and Pagan at 3rd)which would've changed the outcome of the inning drastically.....as Al pointed out in the rule book above, that is not the case.  

As I got to thinking about this (especially how it seemed to hamstring the Cubs a little that inning-should've been able to get more than one run) the rule bothered me a little.   The rule as it is, unfortunately, would appear to give the defensive team one up.  Meaning: why not,  if ever a guy on 1rst or 2nd, the defense always 'incidently' obstruct the lead runner, thus making him stay at that base rather than potentially advancing to 3rd or to score a run.  I'm obviously not advocating this, but given the rule that is brought to light today, it seems a potentially unfair advantage for the defense to prevent that extra base.  

that was a weird play....

by LuisSalazar on Jun 24, 2007 6:10 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The Rule
If the ball is still in the air when the obstruction occurs the play can continue, thus allowing the offense to continue the play and eliminating (or mitigating) the advantage given to the defensive team.
The Cubs Are On Their Way!!

by DenverCub on Jun 24, 2007 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So after the obstruction
it's basically a free play for the offense? If they make two outs like the Cubs did today, whatever happened after the play is disallowed. But if they score a run or two, they can keep the runs?

by markleonette on Jun 24, 2007 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That would make sense...
the idea being to actually discourage obstruction.  If you obstruct as a defensive player, you give the offense the entire benefit.

by SouthernCub on Jun 24, 2007 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The rule...
7.06 When obstruction occurs, the umpire shall call or signal "Obstruction."

(a) If a play is being made on the obstructed runner, or if the batter runner is obstructed before he touches first base, the ball is dead and all runners shall advance, without liability to be put out, to the bases they would have reached, in the umpire's judgment, if there had been no obstruction. The obstructed runner shall be awarded at least one base beyond the base he had last legally touched before the obstruction. Any preceding runners, forced to advance by the award of bases as the penalty for obstruction, shall advance without liability to be put out. When a play is being made on an obstructed runner, the umpire shall signal obstruction in the same manner that he calls "Time," with both hands overhead. The ball is immediately dead when this signal is given; however, should a thrown ball be in flight before the obstruction is called by the umpire, the runners are to be awarded such bases on wild throws as they would have been awarded had not obstruction occurred. On a play where a runner was trapped between second and third and obstructed by the third baseman going into third base while the throw is in flight from the shortstop, if such throw goes into the dugout the obstructed runner is to be awarded home base. Any other runners on base in this situation would also be awarded two bases from the base they last legally touched before obstruction was called.

(b) If no play is being made on the obstructed runner, the play shall proceed until no further action is possible. The umpire shall then call "Time" and impose such penalties, if any, as in his judgment will nullify the act of obstruction. Under 7.06 (b) when the ball is not dead on obstruction and an obstructed runner advances beyond the base which, in the umpire's judgment, he would have been awarded because of being obstructed, he does so at his own peril and may be tagged out. (Judgment call)

by cubby23 on Jun 24, 2007 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right.
Part (a) above is the one that applies here, and the umpires got it right.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jun 24, 2007 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But I'm Not Sure the Play was Being Made on Pagan
I don't have access to a replay, but from watching it on tv when it happened, it seemed they were just getting the ball back into the infield when the obstruction happened, not making a play on Pagan. He was already close enough to second base that there wouldn't have been a play. It only became a play because he kept going.

by markleonette on Jun 24, 2007 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So wouldn't the (b)
part of the rule apply if there wasn't a play being made on Pagan?

by markleonette on Jun 24, 2007 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It would, yes.
But my recollection is, and the umpires apparently agreed, that the play was being made on Pagan, thus when the obstruction occurred the play was immediately dead and all runners are entitled to the base they are on (thus, correctly leaving the bases loaded).

I watched the mlb.com video which has the CSN highlight featuring the Hawk/DJ commentary. Not only were they wrong in what they said, but how they said it made them sound like babies and almost complete idiots. They should be ashamed.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jun 24, 2007 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll second that emotion...
If the situation were reversed, don't you think Santo would be going ape too?  (And Lou too for that matter.)   Isn't the emotion what  Cubbie fans love about Santo?

It's not like it was all that clear anyway when the play occured, even to the four umps standing on the field as it took them ten minutes to sort it out.

Hawk's a homer.  Ok. But many fans love their homers and the emotions they show.

by DrCrawdad on Jun 24, 2007 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Santo would be upset.......
but that's besides the point. Fact is, the situation isn't reversed so there really isn't any use speculating on what Santo might or might not do. Harrelson's a jerkoff in a class by himself and he proved it yet again.
RAMIREZ!! PRIOR!!

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jun 24, 2007 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No
Santo would be confused.  And the difference is he would know he was confused.  He'd be asking Pat four times for an explanation.

Santo would not be screaming that the call was wrong because Santo knows that the umpires know the rule book better than he does.  Santo is not full of himself.  Santo knows what he doesn't know.

by Josh77 on Jun 25, 2007 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good news
Us Cubs fans don't have to listen to this pompous homer ass for another year.

He Gone.

by JFCubFan on Jun 25, 2007 12:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You don't ever...
...have to listen to Hawk.  Your TV does have a mute button, right?

If he bothers you (and other Cubbie fans) so much why listen to him at all?  

No doubt many of the people complaining about Hawk's comments turned on CSN yesterday just to hear what Hawk had to say.  

by DrCrawdad on Jun 25, 2007 7:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

First off
SAnto would be confused as someone else put it.  Yes we like his emotion but we also have a good laugh about him because of the same type of display that Hawk put on.  

Hawk is just an old airbag that couldn't even keep his language under control.  No we don't have to listen to him but it doesn't change the fact that his game calling sucks ass and that he is a waste of money.

I did notice they stopped "puttin em on the board" lately, that is a nice change.

And ya know what Crawdad, why can't you stay out of this?  We don't complain when you people make fun of Santo do we?  Why not stay at South Side Sox?  We'd all be happier.

MMMMM...Hebrew National

by Kinky Reggae on Jun 25, 2007 7:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's still on the board, YES!
Thing is Sox fans are also making fun of Hawk and his outburst.  And a key difference between Santo and Hawk, Hawk spoke words, sentences, expressed his thoughts.  

And yes the Sox have stopped putting them runs on the board lately.  One thing that is still on the board...

2005 World Championship

by DrCrawdad on Jun 25, 2007 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What have you done for me
lately?
One day, the dream will come true.

by brianp88 on Jun 25, 2007 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

EXACTLY!
The Cubbies sweep of a very bad team is so yesterday!

http://tinyurl.com/2k34tg

by DrCrawdad on Jun 25, 2007 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice!
At least this troll got the "very bad team" right.
MMMMM...Hebrew National

by Kinky Reggae on Jun 25, 2007 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ahhh
and the jagoff Sox fans keep showin up.  I just read through the rest of the game thread from yesterday and I noticed that you talked a whole lot of shit until the Cubbies won.

That is how you work huh?  Spew and run.  Man, you are a complete wuss.  Why don't you choose more appropriate company?  You are not wanted here..."Seat's Taken".

MMMMM...Hebrew National

by Kinky Reggae on Jun 25, 2007 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

illinformed? dishonest? which is it?
"I just read through the rest of the game thread from yesterday and I noticed that you talked a whole lot of (feces) UNTIL the Cubbies won.

"That is how you work huh?  Spew and run.  Man, you are a complete wuss."

You claimed to have read through the game thread.  Really?  And you say I "spew and run?"

If you had actually read the thread you'd see I posted SIX TIMES AFTER THE ENDED?

So, did you actually read the thread, as you claimed?  

Will you candidly admit your mistake and/or admit that you've made up this "spew and run" feces?

Further exposing the stupidity of your argument is that here I am, the day AFTER the game standing up to the profane personal attacks.

Let's see if you merely "spewed and ran."  Let's see if you're the "wuss."

by DrCrawdad on Jun 25, 2007 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, you pain the gluteus maximus....
I checked again to make sure I was not wrong but again...I say spew and run you wuss...that ius your game.

You really spend a lot of time trying to make yourself feel better about your shortcomings in life.

I SAY GOOD DAY!

MMMMM...Hebrew National

by Kinky Reggae on Jun 25, 2007 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The truth hurts
"I checked again to make sure I was not wrong but again..."

And what did your check show?  I posted 6 times in discussion AFTER the game AND then have posted here the day after.  Not even close to "posting and running."

Oh, but no don't admit you are wrong, just launch into further personal attacks.

That says much about your character and lack thereof.

Good riddance.

by DrCrawdad on Jun 25, 2007 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Okay big guy...
you are definitely on eto discuss character.

I checked again and NO...there were no postes after the game ended.

The next day maybe, but that was not my assertation friend.

You posted and ran as soon as we swept the Sox...can't say I blame you completely, what could you have possibly said?

"That is one protest that will be upheld!  That was BS!  It was a straight forward play, I don't know what they are looking at!"??

Sorry pal, no postes after the game ended.  But yes, good riddance...I hope that means that you find no need to lurk around here any more with your cheap, childish behavior.  

MMMMM...Hebrew National

by Kinky Reggae on Jun 26, 2007 8:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Eyes wide open, "pal"...
"I checked again and NO...there were no posts after the game ended."

HUH?  Have you, "pal," actually checked the 6/24/07 Game thread?

"Sorry pal, no posts after the game ended."

Hey, "pal" the game ended at about 4:12PM (as you can tell by reading the posts in the game thread).  I then made SIX POSTS AFTER THAT.

And since we're "pals" I'll make it easy for you to find with links.

* 4:18 PM
* 4:31 PM
* 4:31 PM
* 4:38 PM
* 5:50 PM
* 6:42 PM

So, now I've repeated proved your assertion wrong.  Will you candidly and frankly admit you were wrong?  Or will you merely "spew and run?"

Man or mouse?  Which is it?

by DrCrawdad on Jun 27, 2007 2:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey thanks!
You made that real easy for me!  

I suppose I missed your annoying, pain in the ass comments further up in the diary.

I suppose I am wrong...about that simple aspect of my assertation.

Here is what I am not wrong about...

You are a troll.  You DO spew and run in that, you drop by whenever there is some pointless, annoying, and often obnoxious comment to be made.  You visit here only when you THINK you have some point to make with regards to a team that you do not like.  I recently saw a Saturday Night Live with a character that always chimed in to "one up" everyone else.  She was extremely annoying and I found myself saying aloud to my wife, I really hated that woman.  Guess who you are in the sketch.

I am right in saying that you are not welcome here by most, and that this blog would be MUCH better off without your worthless input.  

I am right in saying that the White Sox suck shit this season and you most likely come here to talk out of your ass, (and often leave quckly after that) so that you can feel a little better about yourself as a Sox fan, and even more, as a person.

I am right when I say, I have pointlessly wasted too much breath responding to you, as do many others here.  You are a wannabe intellectual who offers supposed insight where it is not all that welcome.  

Finally, I am right in saying that you are extremely annoying and you should just stick with a Whiote Sox blog where you can commiserate and remain in similar company.

I'd say that was pretty manly to admit where I was wrong.  Hopefully you are done here.

MMMMM...Hebrew National

by Kinky Reggae on Jun 27, 2007 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he spoke words
but they were completely misinformed and ignorant.  Every other station covering the game (WGN radio and TV and WSCR) realized fairly quickly there was an obstruction/interference issue.  Hawk and DJ had no clue - at some point doesn't a producer, assistant, anyone, jump in and tell them what was going on and what they missed, before they go off like complete fools for over 5 minutes?  I watched the video later, and LOL when he was waiting for the umpires to signal a triple play. I was at the game, and I saw the obstruction live, so we had an inkling what was going on, but didn't know the exact rule.  If his job is to cover the game and explain it, how about watching everything going on and covering it, not acting like the idiot fans behind me (who also kept yelling BS, but the complete words).

by gp1966 on Jun 25, 2007 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

HA!
Words! Profane and imature words yes.  At least Santo has the knowhow to keep it as cleasn as possible for the fans sake.  That no good hack has no sense at all.

All I can say when I hear bandwagon fans such as yourself speak the words "2005 Word Champs" is... "oh, that's sad".  

1908 baby!  Yeah, how do ya like then apples Crawdad?  

As long as we're playing that game though, why don't you put 29-42 on the board Hawk?

MMMMM...Hebrew National

by Kinky Reggae on Jun 25, 2007 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Red Herring....
...Santo has nothing to do with this. 1908 and 2005 world championships are also irrelevant with the issue, which is simply that Ken Harrelson reached a new low in unprofessional behavior. In Saturday's game he advocated throwing at a player's head, and yesterday, with all the facts readily available if he would only check, he ranted interminably, using the phrase "B.S." several times and acting as if an affront had been done to him personally. His actions went beyond being a homer. He sounded like a petulant child. There's no defending him on this one, and you prove it by bringing up Santo and other immaterial things.
Santo Forever!

by BeerCub on Jun 25, 2007 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I Agree With You
I don't know if baseball has a rules committee like the NFL does, but somebody, either in the league office or one of the umpires, should bring this up after the season. If the runners were awarded an additional base, that would probably prevent the defense from intentionally doing this.

by markleonette on Jun 24, 2007 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yankees Lose! Theeee Yankees Lose!
And they are now back under .500 and in third place, after getting swept by Colorado and losing a series in San Fran.
Go Nebraska Football!

by sanantonecub on Jun 24, 2007 6:25 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

OK... we get the SWEEP!
35-39. This homestand is "make or break," especially because we get 3 (of our remaining 6 games) against the BrewCrew. The other 3 are at home as well, at the end of August.

If we don't play well at home this week, we'll never get within good reach of the Brewers.

Gotta go 55-33(.625) the rest of the way to win 90 games.

59-29 (.670) to win 94.

1-RUN GAMES = 8-15 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 15-20 | updated on 6/23

by SackMan on Jun 24, 2007 6:25 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

What do the Cubs have
to do to win 93? What about 91--what record would they need for that?

by jazzypete on Jun 24, 2007 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Uribe
Unbelievable...I can't believe how all of that transpired.

I don't blame Ozzie one bit for getting tossed. He had to, 8th inning, 2-run game and a chance to get out of a jam. He had to argue the call, even if he was wrong.

by cubby23 on Jun 24, 2007 6:25 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Just a quick poll here:
Who's made the most boneheaded moves on the basepath so far this season?

a. Barrett
b. DeRosa
c. Pagan
d. None of the above... it's all Mike Quade's fault

1-RUN GAMES = 8-15 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 15-20 | updated on 6/23

by SackMan on Jun 24, 2007 6:28 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

A
Bring back the damn cowbell!

by CubsBall2202 on Jun 24, 2007 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed with A
Getting picked off of second by the CATCHER! has to be the worst baserunning blunder I've seen.
Well, sometimes nothin is a real cool hand.

by wicubfan on Jun 24, 2007 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can I write in...
Soriano, for all of his pickoffs early in the year?

Honestly, though, I think the baserunning blunders are pretty well spread around.

by SouthernCub on Jun 24, 2007 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was thinking about it
but... didn't want to trash on him after such a good weekend.
1-RUN GAMES = 8-15 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 15-20 | updated on 6/23

by SackMan on Jun 24, 2007 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also agreed..
Barrett never makes that play..
Well, sometimes nothin is a real cool hand.

by wicubfan on Jun 24, 2007 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Couple quick observations:
  1. Brewers are for real.
  2. Marquis has turned back into the "Bad Marquis". I hope he can find his game again. But really, he truly is a #5 starter and I can see why LaRussa left him off the playoff roster.
  3. FINALLY, the team played excellent defense for three games in a row! Thank the heavens!
  4. Beating the Sox, IN THEIR PARK, three straight, is SWEET!
  5. Angel Pagan studied at the Michael Barrett School of Stupid Baseball Conservatory. What a door-knob!
  6. Michael Barrett would have CERTAINLY found a way to screw up the throw from Sori. Lose the ball in the dirt, let it pass by him and go all the way to the wall, or some other knuckleheaded thing.
  7. A HUGE week is coming up!
GO CUBS!
Is it too early to be out of it, or too early to be this far behind?

by TheEman on Jun 24, 2007 7:04 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

We Need to Sweep the Brewers Next Week
Period.
Preceded, by a sweep of the Rockies.
This team needs to be capable of a long winning streak.
If we get within 2-3 games of the Brewers, we will put the fear of God into that glorified northern suburb.
- CF

by nervousCUBlover on Jun 24, 2007 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey Festa
Love your "stuff."

My dad is now using his In Dusty We Trusty Tee as a carwash rag.

1-RUN GAMES = 8-15 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 15-20 | updated on 6/23

by SackMan on Jun 24, 2007 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes...
Hey, as long as you paid for it, you can do whatever you want with it :)
- CF

by nervousCUBlover on Jun 24, 2007 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL
It DID make a great Father's Day gift once upon a time.
1-RUN GAMES = 8-15 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 15-20 | updated on 6/23

by SackMan on Jun 24, 2007 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Cubs are...
... 6-3 vs. the Brewers so far this year. But you're right, this series, they need to sweep.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jun 24, 2007 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually...
...the Cubs are 5-4 against Milwaukee this season.

by NTNgod on Jun 24, 2007 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're right.
I had thought the Cubs won the series at Wrigley Field, too. They didn't.

Still, 5-4 is good against the Brewers. The Cubs cannot lose this upcoming series; at the VERY least they need to win it, and preferably sweep it.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jun 24, 2007 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"2 out of 3 ain't bad"
First things first, they need to win the Colorado series. Have to keep the good vibes going and put together a nice win streak before the all-star break. When's the last time the Cubs won 4 straight? (May 6th, I looked it up) Seems like aeons ago.

Longest Win Streak of:
2006 (4)
2005 (7)
2004 (6)
2003 (6) in early Sep.
2002 (5)
2001 (12)
                       

by cubby23 on Jun 25, 2007 12:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Bad Marquis
I'm going tomorrow night AND Sunday. Marquis starts both games. <bang head against wall here>

We'll need 12 pitchers this week. Look for a major move tomorrow (Jones possibly gone).

1-RUN GAMES = 8-15 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 15-20 | updated on 6/23

by SackMan on Jun 24, 2007 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm on your heels...
Going Tue. and Sat.

I will MISS HIM <jumps up and down>.

Hope he recaptures early success like the Pirates game.

Is it too early to be out of it, or too early to be this far behind?

by TheEman on Jun 24, 2007 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I knew they were gonna regret
not winning those early gems he pitched.

And of course... the $21 mil they gave him.

1-RUN GAMES = 8-15 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 15-20 | updated on 6/23

by SackMan on Jun 24, 2007 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL!
"...that glorified northern suburb."

It actually is having a rennaissance of sorts if you can believe it.

Gentrification in warehouse areas, etc.

But STILL the #2 OBESE state in the U.S.!

Is it too early to be out of it, or too early to be this far behind?

by TheEman on Jun 24, 2007 7:10 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Average opponent current record for rest of season
If I did this correctly, the average of current record for teams facing the Cubs for the remainder of the season (weighted per game) is

33.965909 - 39.465909

by John Q Freejazz on Jun 24, 2007 7:17 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

How about the Brewers?
I'm guessing it would be similar... all those division games.
1-RUN GAMES = 8-15 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 15-20 | updated on 6/23

by SackMan on Jun 24, 2007 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Remaining schedule
The remaining schedules for the two teams are almost identical.

Entering Friday at least, the Cub opponent win% was .468, the Brewers .462.

The Brewers don't play themselves, obviously, so that probably accounts for the bulk of the difference.

by NTNgod on Jun 24, 2007 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Probably worse
they get to play us but we have to play them.
Josh Kroeger. Remember the name. Stay tuned for the fame.

by tharr on Jun 24, 2007 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But...
... as I mentioned above, the Cubs are 6-3 vs. the Brewers so far this season, including 4-2 at Miller Park.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jun 24, 2007 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cubs vs. Brewers
Cubs are 4-2 in Miller Park this season.
Brewers are 2-1 in Wrigley this season.

(5-4 Cubs, overall)

by NTNgod on Jun 24, 2007 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Al, the umpires got it
WRONG!  Once Pagan was tagged, the play was dead.  Joe West correctly put each runner on the base had obstruction not occurred.  BUT Pagan, as the runner who was obstructed between second and third, should have been awarded third which meant Pie should have been awarded home.  DeRosa would have been left at first.

7.06(a)--The obstructed runner shall be awarded at least one base beyond the base he had last legally touched before the obstruction. Any preceding runners, forced to advance by the award of bases as the penalty for obstruction, shall advance without liability to be put out.

How do I know for sure?  I umpired baseball for over 20 years and saw plays like this on a regular basis.  I got to know 7.06 really well.

by davewillie on Jun 24, 2007 7:48 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

But had Pagan
touched second base yet? If not, that would be the base awarded.

by markleonette on Jun 24, 2007 7:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd have to see the replay to be sure...
... but my recollection is that Pagan was obstructed with right as he was reaching second base, therefore the call was correct.

In any case the Cubs did score a run and might have had more if Pagan hadn't decided to tempt fate a second time, and gotten caught in the rundown after Hill's sac fly.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jun 24, 2007 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This sounded more correct to me....
and would eliminate any intentional obstructing by the defense.  Had they placed the runners as you had pointed out, that inning potenially could've ended a whole lot differently,  as Pie was going to score on that play anyway, and Pagan would've easily made it to 3rd.  

Still confusing though....

by LuisSalazar on Jun 24, 2007 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pie was NOT..
going to score on that play.  He had already been held up at 3rd base because he had tagged up anticipating a fly out.  That's why Pagan got caught in the rundown: he was sprinting to 3rd base, but Pie was standing there.

by SouthernCub on Jun 24, 2007 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Quade got caught up in the play at 2B
as well, because Pie should've been in the dugout by the time Pagan/DeRosa each got caught up in their rundown.

by LuisSalazar on Jun 24, 2007 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, maybe should have...
but definitely didn't.  He actually got thrown out trying to go home after Pagan was tagged out and DeRosa was in the rundown.

It's hard to tell if Pie just waited way too long at 2nd to see if Mackowiak would catch it or if it was just such a bang-bang play from bouncing fair to Mackowiak getting it back to the infield.  But for whatever reason, Pie wasn't even to 3rd base by the time Mackowiak was relaying it into the infield.

by SouthernCub on Jun 24, 2007 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pie tagged
up at 2nd while Pagan was halfway to 2nd at the time. Pie rounded 3 about 15 feet when Quade held him up. At that time Pagan was halfway to 3rd. When Pie headed back to 3rd per Quade's instruction, pagan was in no man's land because the ball had been relayed to the infield.

It seemed to me that Quade should have seen pagan given his good sightline and resent Pie home. That would have allowed Pagan to get to 3rd and DeRosa to 2nd. Pie would probably have been out at home, but at least it would have avoided the congestion on the bases. It also would have forced the Sox to actually make the play on a fast runner who wasn't between fielders.

Josh Kroeger. Remember the name. Stay tuned for the fame.

by tharr on Jun 24, 2007 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pagan was obstructed...
directly on second base, not between second and third.  Because of that, it's a judgement call as to whether he was obstructed before or after reaching second.  During the debate, the second base umpire pointed vigorously at 2nd base, as if to say "it happened" right here."  Thus, I think the call was correct based on that.

The fortunate thing is that the obstruction actually saved us.  Pagan was heading for third regardless, not paying attention to the fact that Pie had been held up at third (he had tagged up, and didn't break for third until after the ball reached the wall).  If there's no obstruction, Pagan is still caught in the rundown, and the disaster situation still occurs.  Luckily, the obstruction bailed Pagan (and subsequently DeRosa and Pie) from their collective brain farts.

After watching the play again, I think I'm going to absolve Quade of any of my blame: Pie was only half way to third when the ball was being relayed back into the infield.  He got such a late start by tagging up at second, and Mackowiak got the ball so quickly and relayed so fast, that it'd have been pretty close at home.

by SouthernCub on Jun 24, 2007 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The rule...
Posted by Cubby23 states that the call should be made as if calling "Time".  The 2nd base ump only raised one arm and the 3rd base ump did a right arm pump.  My sourpuss Sox coworkers don't understand why 2nd base ump still called Pagan out.  My explaination was that they let play continue until the outcome was known - a run could have scored - the obstructing team cannot benefit from the stopping the game.  Anyone agree?

by coral on Jun 24, 2007 8:07 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

That would make sense...
let it play out, and give the obstructed team the better of the two alternatives (i.e., either ignore the obstruction to the offense's benefit, or call the obstruction to penalize the defense).

by SouthernCub on Jun 24, 2007 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes....
because we would gladly take the out at 2nd if we got a run in.

by coral on Jun 24, 2007 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

video available
www.mlb.com --- see "Ozzie gets ejected" on the right side.  On WGN you can see the 2nd base ump pointing to home, then calling Pagan out.

by coral on Jun 24, 2007 8:10 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

anyone catch
the hawkeroo's performance during this play? i was watching with a sox fan buddy at his house, so their team was on. it was one for the ages, folks. possibly the most unprofessional display i've ever seen by a sportscaster. totally, totally out of order.

by gary varsho on Jun 24, 2007 8:31 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

That final series with the Brewers
at Wrigley is starting to loom large, it would seem.

phat

by phatass on Jun 24, 2007 8:39 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

too true
he makes santo look objective

by gary varsho on Jun 24, 2007 8:39 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yesterday'squeeze play could be a turning point .
It's dangerous to predict success with this bunch, but if we manage to make something of this season, yesterday's squeeze play might well be remembered as a turning point.  That's one of very few times I can remember this year when we executed exactly what we wanted when we wanted it.  It's something to build on.
Did we really put Jose Macias on the field? Really???

by ksreed on Jun 24, 2007 8:40 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Didin't have time to read all posts but
Ozzie actually said that the umps got it right and told him just to run him.
MMMMM...Hebrew National

by Kinky Reggae on Jun 24, 2007 8:53 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It Seemed That Way
He wasn't very animated, and I was surprised they threw him out. I guess he was trying to get his team fired up without getting a suspension. And when he threw his lineup card back to the dugout before going out to argue, I thought that probably meant he was going to try to get thrown out.

by markleonette on Jun 24, 2007 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let's keep
this winning streak going. Great weekend for the Cubs.
Men who whine are so unattractive. This place is full of them.

by sue369 on Jun 24, 2007 8:53 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

un-crap
Is it too early to be out of it, or too early to be this far behind?

by TheEman on Jun 24, 2007 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hawk
With as much complaining about the Sux announcers as there's been, you'd think that the games were only broadcast by them this weekend.  If everyone hates them so much why watch their broadcast???

By the way, it really is too bad that they're terrible because, as a baseball fan, I might actually watch Sux games now and then if it weren't so painful to hear.

by RynoHoF on Jun 24, 2007 9:14 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

In Houston
WGN was  the only available station. I had to listen to Hawk. But then it did offer some satisfaction to hear him whine the first 2 games. I'd love to hear his rant today but Brenly and Len were back.
Josh Kroeger. Remember the name. Stay tuned for the fame.

by tharr on Jun 24, 2007 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's what the MLB.TV broadcast was
So you'd be correct in thinking that was the only choice.  And they were truly terrible.  Worst announcers I've ever heard, particularly Hawk.  Terrible play-by-play, blatant annoying partisanship, and failure to note the thing the umpires were conferencing about: the obstruction.  I saw it as it happened, but there was no replay showing that part of it, nor did those idiot announcers catch on.  I'm glad we're not playing the Sox again this year so I don't have to listen to that utter doodoo.

by John Q Freejazz on Jun 24, 2007 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Anybody else hurting over the loss of The Shooter?
I am totally sick to my stomach over the death of Rod Beck. He was such a good guy and total blue collar guy like myself. I have wanted to meet him since his big year with the cubs in '98. I am at a loss for words and totally shocked as i have wanted to meet at a cubs convention. i dont know what else to say other than R.I.P. Shooter. I love you man.
*diehard cubs fan from northern manitoba, canada

by hoppy91 on Jun 24, 2007 9:23 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Shocked!
when I saw the news.  Absolutely shocked.

by RynoHoF on Jun 24, 2007 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not
enought energy to read all comments above. So if I repeat something, sorry.

First the Cubs pitching looked very good against a very bad team. They are currently four under. Nothing to write home about. But something tells me (gut feeling, remember that) once they hit .500 no looking back.

So have the changes been made well enough to propel this team upwards? I hope so. If they keep it up, than I know so.

"You can't take life to seriously, you don't get out of it alive"

by wild bill on Jun 24, 2007 9:24 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I forgot
to to apply my question and the end of last post.

Question is: Is this team playing solid baseball?

I do not have the luxury of watching many games. I might be able to catch them on the radio, and yes Santo is painful. And I will read about them. But not seeing them, I miss the whole story. From what I can determine lately is that they are.

Anyone's thoughts?

"You can't take life to seriously, you don't get out of it alive"

by wild bill on Jun 24, 2007 9:28 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Harrelson.....
...what with whining yesterday that no one threw at the head of either Pagan or Theriot during the suicide squeeze,, and then his unprofessional conduct on the air today, can someone explain this guy shouldn't be fired? The idiot is indefensible. As long as the Sox continue to employ him he's a reflection of the entire organization.
Santo Forever!

by BeerCub on Jun 24, 2007 9:29 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Hawk and DJ
This is what a White Sox fan has to say about their announcers (on southsidesox.com) -

"Likewise,

I feel  like I actually gain baseball knowledge by listening to those guys.  Hawk and DJ, on the other hand... Hawk can be entertaining, but I feel like someone slipped me a roofie and clubbed me in the head with a mailbox after listening to him call a game.  I'm not even gonna start with DJ.  He has less personality than Tim Duncan."

No Kidding!!!

by cubsnlinux on Jun 24, 2007 9:34 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Congratulations to the Beavers
From Oregon State, 2007 NCAA College World Series Champions.

Back-to-Back Titles for the team from Corvallis.

Go Nebraska Football!

by sanantonecub on Jun 24, 2007 9:38 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Why?
What's wrong with North Carolina?
Is it too early to be out of it, or too early to be this far behind?

by TheEman on Jun 24, 2007 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I came home from church today...
to watch the game I had DVR'd (is that a word?), and  I wanted to start the game from the beginning. When I turned on the TV, the "trainwreck" on the bases had just finished and the umps were having the pow-wow. I didn't look @ the score or inning and just quickly went to the DVR Menu and started the recording over from the beginning. I watched this game with great fear and trepidation, expecting something galacticly bad to happen any minute. When the 8th came around and the comical play ensued, I busted up laughing. My 10 year old was involved in an almost identical play last week. He was the hitter and the ball was hit just over the left fielders head, short hopped the fence and came right back to the left-fielder. Same obstruction @ 2nd, the SS was straddling the bag, and the runner from 1st (watching the ball) ran him over. They ended up in a pile off the bag to the third base side, and the 2nd baseman took the throw and tagged the runner and got my son in a pickle between 2nd and 1st. The runner who had been on 2nd scored. The umpires awarded the run, sent the runner who had been obstructed to 3rd base and sent my son to 1st. I had thought he should have been given 2nd, but he scored anyway 2 batters later. It was the first time I had ever seen that play happen, and I would have bet my guitar collection I would never see it again.

My jaw is on the ground. We played EXCELLENT baseball for 3 games in a row! Pitching, Hitting, Fielding, and besides Pagan's Moises Alou impression - Baserunning were all great. If they can keep this up for another couple series and go 8-2 or so, we might actually have some hope of playing meaningful games in September. As of now, I'm smiling. The Rockies, however, bring a pause to my enthusiasm. They're a good team that can beat you lots of different ways. The best fielding team in the NL, and no easy outs in the lineup. My fingers are crossed.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 24, 2007 9:44 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Can anyone
give me specifics on how bad Hawk was today?  I was at the game today and thankfully did not have to deal with his garbage.

by Bardusk87 on Jun 24, 2007 9:46 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

He is like listening to...
a drunk uncle who played HS baseball in a town of 500 and still thinks he could make it in the Majors.  He's a talking cartoon. Imagine Uncle Rico from Napoleon Dynamite calling a baseball game and that will get you pretty close.  
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 24, 2007 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What an idiot!!!
I was watching on the Cubs telecast and didn't see him blather on.  Thanks for the link!
"Dad gum right this games gonna be played under protest. . . I guarantee this is gonna be one protest that's upheld." --Hawk Harrelson, 6/24/07

by RynoHoF on Jun 24, 2007 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Amazing
I am grateful for the link.  They had no clue what had happened.  The replay they "analyzed" started after the interference took place.  Neither of these long time "professional" broadcasters saw the play, and neither consulted a rule book.  Both Len and Bob, which was what I was watching, were initially confused by the play, went to the press box and tried to get as much clarification as they could.  They repeatedly praised the umpires--before the final interpretation was implemented--for their lengthy consultation with each other.  All Hawk and DJ could do was complain.  
I take the point an earlier poster made, that, had the roles been reversed, Ronnie would have had a fit.  Nonetheless, both the Sox announcers ought to be ashamed and won't be.
Go Cubs!

by moldy on Jun 24, 2007 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

'No Clue' is right !
What game were these two dumbasses watching ?! They had no idea what had happened at 2nd base.

Not to make excuses for these incompetent jerks, but the (Cubs)WGN camera work was far superior to the (Sox) CSN.
WGN had a high camera directly covering 2nd so that the collision was clearly seen, was replayed many times and was the focus of Len & Bob's comments & discussion.  On CSN, the collision was only covered by a field level 3rd base camera and appeared in the background as the camera focused on Pie nearing 3rd.
Someone with the station should have tipped off hawk & dj. Instead they just rambled on about how the umps, being down on the field, hadn't seen what had happened. Wow!  

by slide on Jun 25, 2007 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My favorite line from Hawk:
"I guarantee this is one protest that will definitely be upheld."

I am choking on my own rage after what I have just listened to - how can a professional announcer, WHO played organized baseball, be that obtuse?

I criticize Len quite a bit, but at least he took the time and effort to try and figure out what was going on - and, he did a fine job of explaining it afterwards.

"Hawk, you are a pompous fool and I have pity on anyone that has to deal with you on a day to day basis."

"Me fail English? That's unpossible." Ralph Wiggum

by ilovepie on Jun 24, 2007 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What basically happened......
and I say this because I switched over to Comcast for the explicit purpose of watching Harrelson whine, cry and stumble through the rest of the game.

-Basically what went down was that Harrelson(and his partner) totally missed Pagan & Uribe colliding and were under the impression that the play was still live and the SUX were in line for a triple play. He's all excited at this point and gives off one of his contrived "Mercy!" calls right after Pie gets tagged out.

-After this the umps start having their pow-wow and the runners go back to their bases......still oblivious to the collision.....Harrelson starts whining about how in all his years in the game he's never seen anything like this, and at this point he's in full on cry mode......pretty much crying every two seconds for 4 minutes "This is BS!" Then he goes so far as to say that "Dadgummit.....this game will definitley be played under protest" because, you know.....its not like the SUX weren't being shut out at that point.

-So play resumes and Pagan starts acting like a chicken with his head cut off on the bases and then he says "Just go back to 2nd, they'll find a way to call you safe"

Finally from what I can gather someone explained the rule to him between innings and he then started whining about how the umpire @ 2nd should have raised his hand to signify the play being called dead, which I thought I saw in the replay on GM.

RAMIREZ!! PRIOR!!

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jun 24, 2007 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

TWO Umpires.....
...raised their hands when Pagan and Uribe collided. It was plain as day on WGN. How these two blowhards missed it, especially if they looked at the replay "enough times to see everything" as they claimed, can only be explained by saying they're as stupid as they appear to be. I can't recall when I've heard such childish, immature and boorish behavior from two announcers, especially Harrelson. No wonder some Sox fans are as annoying as they are. They're led to believe it's okay by listening to these louts.

What floors is is either no one pointed out to then the two players collided, or these two conveniently decided to ignore it, homers that they are. There aren't enough words to register my disgust with Harrelson, Fire his ass, get him out of baseball and take his toady Jackson with him.

Santo Forever!

by BeerCub on Jun 24, 2007 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's really the thing about......
Sux fans. I don't want to hate them, I have friends who like the Sux and my sister and her fiance are Sux fans.

I'm telling you though, when they start "Hawk talking" I just want to knock their teeth out of their mouth......and by nature I'm not a violent person. I just can't take it.

RAMIREZ!! PRIOR!!

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jun 24, 2007 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tee-Hee....
I turned it over to CSN right away too with full knowledge that Hawk would make an ass out of himself !!!   Sorry, I know Santo is a whiner but I don't think he is stupid enough to jump to conclusions ON TELEVISION like those yahoos did.
The TV guys have more access to replays, etc.  They know that could be eating crow.

by coral on Jun 24, 2007 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Trib article explains the ruling
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-070624umpires,1,4785569.story?coll=cs-h ome-headlines

Very funny quote in there:

Pagan said he knew immediately that Uribe kept him from rounding second base and that it was obstruction.

"I talked to [Uribe] and I said, 'What are you doing on the bag?' " Pagan said. "He said, 'Man, you were flying.' "

by roscoevillage on Jun 24, 2007 10:21 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

What would it take to get Santana?
If it were possible to get him from the Twins.

Seriously, how awesome would he be to have?  Z, Santana, Hill, and take your pick from Lily, Marshall and Marquis.

by Arbusto on Jun 24, 2007 10:22 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Nothing
the Cubs have.

All the players that the Cubs have that might be of enough value to get Santana make too much money and the Twins wouldn't be interested in.

Felix Pie would be a start, but not nearly enough.

by Josh77 on Jun 25, 2007 12:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, psh.
You could do it, if you were absolutely out of your mind drunk that morning. Just offer the Twins a package of oh, say, Rich Hill, Eric Patterson, Sean Gallagher and Donald Veal. I think you'd get Santana. And I think you'd regret it for the rest of your life.
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Jun 25, 2007 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wha?
To get Santana we'd need to give the Twins Z, Sori, DLee, Wrigley Field, and at least two pizzas from Lou Malnati's. C'mon...you been drinking all day?

by bergs55 on Jun 24, 2007 10:30 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Can we trade some dogs from Portillo's
and atleast keep Wrigley Field?
Go Nebraska Football!

by sanantonecub on Jun 24, 2007 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Okay...
Dogs from Portillo's it is. Plus six Italian Beef sandwiches...we can keep Wrigley.

by bergs55 on Jun 24, 2007 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

great weekend,
I am being realistic, lets go 4-2 this week, playing poor at home, and a 4-2 week would be solid against two good teams.
 I have the MLB package and it seems when the White Sox are on, I always get the Sox announcers. Hawk is tough to take even when they are not playing the Cubs. His arrogance seeps through the TV. Can't listen to the guy.
 Would anybody trade Dye for Jones?, I would, Cubs would have to add someone for sure, maybe throw in Cotts, LOL
Lets play good ball at home!!

by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Jun 24, 2007 10:46 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd love to swap
Jones for Dye. But it ain't gonna happen. Never. No way. No how.
Josh Kroeger. Remember the name. Stay tuned for the fame.

by tharr on Jun 24, 2007 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yet another trade propasal
i know i know im tired of hearing jaque jones being traded but i thought that instead of trading from gagne or griffey what about andruw jones this is his last year before he becomes a free agent he is a great hitter and is the 1 of the best outfielders in baseball today

by ryan797 on Jun 24, 2007 11:04 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

You just listed
the reason that the trade is impossible. Give me one GOOD reason why they would trade us an A player for a J player. Atlanta is in the hunt for a playoff. THINK.
Josh Kroeger. Remember the name. Stay tuned for the fame.

by tharr on Jun 24, 2007 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Andruw Jones...
C'Mon MAN!

I agree w/the above - THINK!

You are assuming that John Schuerholz, probably baseball's best GM, is going to trade Andruw Jones for our complete, worthless, garbage baseball player??

Are you freaking ten-years old!

THINK BEFORE YOU ACT, please.

Is it too early to be out of it, or too early to be this far behind?

by TheEman on Jun 24, 2007 11:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Andruw Jones!
Ha, I'd rather keep JJ.  That guy is a below average CF swinging a weak stick.  How's a .199 average sound, huh?  Also, zero hustle and a fat face.  Keep 'em, ATL.

by Mr Snrub on Jun 25, 2007 7:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That was an....
amazing link showing how terrible Hawk and DJ are.  Anyone hear the rumor we are packing Marshall with I think Jones for Griffey?  If so, who would we possibly have in the 5th spot?  Marmol???

by Bardusk87 on Jun 24, 2007 11:28 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd love Griffey
But no way do I part with either Z, Hill or Marshall. They're the future. Griffey's a short term solution.
Josh Kroeger. Remember the name. Stay tuned for the fame.

by tharr on Jun 24, 2007 11:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I see no need for Griffey or his contract
Plus, with ownership changing and Zambrano up for FA... would much rather see that $12 mil per year (or whatever Jr's due) go toward's a new contract for Z.

A platoon of Floyd and Pagan is fine. A platoon of Floyd and say a "Willie Mo Pena" wouldn't be bad either... and at a much lower price.

1-RUN GAMES = 8-15 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 15-20 | updated on 6/23

by SackMan on Jun 25, 2007 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How long is Griffey
going to play? He is 35, what maybe 3 more years. Marshall is good, who knows what happens to Z in this contract year. Hate to give young good pitchers away . I don't know if I would make the deal. I am sure at this site if would be overwhelming yes to make the deal.

by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Jun 24, 2007 11:34 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

i thought
griffey was 38

by CZ38 on Jun 24, 2007 11:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've been gone for the weekend
but glad for the sweep.  The Cubs needed it.  Since it only was the Sox, it will be interesting to see the next couple of series against teams with actual hitting.  The Sox really are bad.  Still a sweep is a sweep.

I'm surprised but I didn't see many comments on Ramirez.  It doesn't look ready to play the field to me.  Looks like PH duty for the Colorado series.  I wonder if this will a season long problem.      

by rlpete on Jun 25, 2007 6:50 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

ramirez
said as much himself. he said he's going to be at 80% all year long, so we'll see, but i agree that he looks really gimpy right now. of course, you can limp around the bases when you keep hitting it over the wall!

by gary varsho on Jun 25, 2007 7:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

here's hoping
the rockies feel like testing soriano's arm like the white sox did...ye gods. i think peyton manning loaned him the laser-rocket arm for the summer.

the best part of the trib story about the wild baserunning play was that joey cora (watch your ankles!) came out to file a protest after they ran guillen, was asked what rule he was protesting under, and cora told the umpire he didn't even know what happened. don baylor would be proud.

by gary varsho on Jun 25, 2007 7:31 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

on Mike & Mike
steve phillips said hendry has spent the last week trying to deal jacque jones and he's getting almost no interest. jones is not going to be traded for a major league player, unless he's part of a package deal. i think teams are going to want marshall or marmol. lou loves marmol, he's not going anywhere, but marshall might be moved, if that's what it takes to get jones out of town. i think marshall's a nice young pitcher, but sometimes you have to give something to get something.

has anyone else heard about sullivan calling out barrett as the clubhouse snitch? apparently, someone has been leaking the locker room drama to buster olney all year and after the players only meeting, someone in the meeting called him and made it seem as if the meeting was a lou-bashing session. cliff floyd got wind of that and he was apparently really hot about someone leaking the details fot he meeting. so sullivan was on the score last week and said barrett was the snitch and that was part of why he was traded, because he'd lost the trust of his teammates. thoughts?

by gary varsho on Jun 25, 2007 7:41 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

What?
Are you suggesting the Cubs would give some team Sean Marshall just to get Jones out of town?  I would hope the Cubs would release Jones and eat the rest of his contract before just giving away Marshall.  

by cubsbak on Jun 25, 2007 8:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed...
Get whatever you can for Jones without disrupting the talent base already in place.  If that means DFAing Jones, so be it.  Don't get stuck setting the team back in the future just to resolve a present problem.

by SouthernCub on Jun 25, 2007 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

marshall
is a nice young pitcher, but no one is going to take jones straight up without one of the young pitchers. this is part of the problem with the cubs: they want something for nothing. sure, they could DFA jones, but that's sort of crappy thing to do to a guy. you'd like to give a veteran guy like jones the benefit of being traded rather than DFA'd. marshall's a good young pitcher, but don't get carried away. he gives up a lot of hits, hasn't made it through the 7th yet because he tires and starts walking guys, and he really, really tailed off at the end of last year. all i'm saying is the cubs will have to package jones to move him and it appears there are some good arms down in the minors, so if we have to move a guy like marshall, who i think projects to a 4 or 5 starter at best, then the cubs don't disrupt a young core, they move a marketable commodity--marshall--at the hight of his value. he's undefeated with a nice string of quality starts. his value will never be higher. if you want to make a cake, you have to break a few eggs.

by gary varsho on Jun 25, 2007 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So you're suggesting the Cubs give
away Marshall because it's a "crappy thing" to just DFA Jones and not give him the "benefit of being traded"?

I disagree.  This isn't a nursery school, it's a baseball team.  Jones is a professional and he understands this is a business.  And if his feelings are hurt, too damn bad.  The Cubs need to do what's best for the Cubs.  

by cubsbak on Jun 25, 2007 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

is it good for the cubs
to get a rep as club that DFA's guys when they don't pan out as big free agent signings? i realize it's a business, but i think some teams need a RF like jones, say for instance San Diego, because as bad as jones has been, terrmell sledge has been worse. the sox need a RF with dye going down. jones has some value, it's just a little early for hendry to get anything, but the short-handed staff is forcing his hand. it's a bad situation, because they need another pitcher and they don't want to send pagan (who should be sent down to practice a little baserunning) or pie. it's going to be interesting to see what happens today.

by gary varsho on Jun 25, 2007 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

my bad
june 13, marshall went 8 innings. mea culpa. i still think he will never be more marketable than right now, but if he was going to moved today, would the cubs really have let make his start yesterday?

by gary varsho on Jun 25, 2007 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Old news...
"has anyone else heard about sullivan calling out barrett as the clubhouse snitch? apparently, someone has been leaking the locker room drama to buster olney all year and after the players only meeting"

This is old news now.

Management traced these "leaks" to Barrett.

It has been reported by several local stations and papers since the trade. Saturday, on the flagship "Sports Central" afternoon show post-game, it was mentioned again by Jim Memelo, the co-host.

Is it too early to be out of it, or too early to be this far behind?

by TheEman on Jun 25, 2007 8:06 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Great series!
Nice to see the Cubs pull together and win a few games in the aftermath of the Barrett deal.  To hear some of the people posting last week you would've thought Sweet Lou had quit on the season and that the Cubs would be hard pressed to win another series without the all-important contributions from Mr. Barrett.  Far from it.  As Sweet Lou smartly observed, Barrett's lousy defense was killing this team and he had to go.  I firmly believe Sweet Lou is one of the best things to ever happen to the Cubs and he's remaking this team into a winner.  And I think the Barrett move was just the beginning.  GO CUBS!!!!

by cubsbak on Jun 25, 2007 8:34 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Rumors are going around
that Jones will be traded TODAY. And it appears that Ken Griffey Jr. wants to return to  Seattle to end his career...

by Chanman25 on Jun 25, 2007 8:59 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

triple play?
Al indicated that had that prior to the discussion this was likely one of the oddest triple plays in history.  I don't believe it ever was a triple play.  DeRosa was never out on the play as best as I could tell.  Had the results of the play stood, I believe DeRosa would have been on second with 2 outs.

by lohroffc on Jun 25, 2007 9:13 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Right.
It COULD have been a weird triple play if the umpires hadn't finally stopped it. But you're right, the result Hawk and DJ wanted was DeRosa on 2B and two out.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jun 25, 2007 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cubbies!
Cubbies are playing good ball and swept the White Sox.  The Cubs have too much talent to be playing mediocre ball and need their pitching and bullpen to step it up.  To stay up to date on all Cubs information, stats, trades, matchups and schedule visit www.atsh2h.com!

by ATSH2H on Jun 25, 2007 2:47 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I want to see a clip so badly
but I am at work and I can't get to YouTube!
MMMMM...Hebrew National

by Kinky Reggae on Jun 25, 2007 3:09 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

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