Statement! ... Statement. ... Statement!
Three statements were made this weekend: first, by the Cubs, with the amazing comeback and walkoff HR on Friday; then, by the Brewers yesterday, coming back from what could have been a devastating loss for them and winning convincingly... and then again today by the Cubs, who put Milwaukee on notice that they are here to stay, with a most impressive 5-1 win over the Brewers, making the final "statement" of the series, and winning it, leaving town for the first-half ending road trip one game closer to the Brewers than they were when Milwaukee came to town on Friday.
And that, despite the winning streak that was snapped yesterday, is as good as the Cubs could have hoped for or expected. The 2007 Milwaukee Brewers are a very good team (and almost all home-grown; 7 of their 8 position player starters today came from their own system), and they're not going to be easy to catch, since even with the series win, and a 7-5 series lead for the Cubs in the season series (which, unfortunately for pennant race fans everywhere, will end before August does, with a three-game set at Wrigley Field Aug. 28-30), the Cubs remain six and a half games behind.
Still, that seems somehow closer than it did a few weeks ago, doesn't it? Suddenly, this team is playing as a team; guys like Mark DeRosa and Mike Fontenot, who have been red-hot in the last week, were quiet today, but others stepped up. Ryan Theriot, mired in a slump, was returned to the 2-spot in the batting order today and had three doubles and scored three of the five runs. Derrek Lee also had three hits, raising his average back to .346 -- and he drove in a run when Theriot successfully avoided Johnny Estrada's tag (or did he? We turned around to watch on the plasma screen at the building on Waveland behind us. As we turned around, people in the building were signaling "safe", but after the replay, some were shrugging and signaling "out". Hey, so we caught a break.). So for those of you worried that Lee only hit two HR in June -- why worry? He's hitting and producing, and also made two slick plays in the field today, plays that most other first basemen would have waved at as they went down the RF line for doubles.
And the biggest applause today for the pitchers, both Jason Marquis and Carlos Marmol. Marquis threw seven solid innings, allowing only four hits; his only real mistake was a HR to Corey Hart, smashed really, really hard through a 15-MPH wind blowing in on yet another postcard-view sunny day, with an unusually (for July 1) cool gametime temperature of 67 degrees. Other than that, Marquis was nearly perfect; he walked one and of his 21 outs, 12 were recorded on ground balls. With the bullpen being run ragged the last few days, we were absolutely astounded to see him lifted after seven innings with a pitch count of 77 (54 strikes). Why not let him finish, or at least throw one more inning?
Marmol answered that question by showing absolutely electric stuff for two innings, topping out at 95 on the ballpark radar board, and throwing some absolutely filthy sliders, as well, striking out four of the seven batters he faced (23 pitches, 21 strikes, and this has been Marmol's problem, lack of control -- if this is a sample of how he's conquered that problem, the Cubs have, at the very least, a great setup man, and maybe a future lights-out closer). He might have gone through the two innings unscathed if Alfonso Soriano had been able to make the catch on a sinking liner by J. J. Hardy, only to see it bounce off the heel of his glove. Marmol got Ryan Braun to fly to Mark DeRosa in right, somewhat shakily -- we wondered why Felix Pie hadn't gone into CF, with Angel Pagan in RF, for defense in the 9th -- and then, to an ever-louder crescendo of cheers from the crowd of 41,486 (almost all of whom stuck around for the end, on a day when the first couple of innings dragged, but the last several flew by, and the time of 2:08 was the fastest of the year), struck out both Prince Fielder and Bill Hall on fastballs that seemed to get faster.
The total attendance, incidentally, for the weekend was 124,810, a new record for a three-game series at Wrigley Field, breaking the record set... last year, May 26-28, vs. Atlanta. This included a few people who sat with us today who got BCB cards and who I wanted to say, "Hey!" to: a twenty-something couple who spent most of their time talking to Phil (oh, you guys had no idea what you were in for!), and a nice couple with two young kids, 5 and 7, from Cleveland who are Cubs fans "just because we love Chicago", as they said. So if you all are reading -- welcome! Quite a weekend to be at Wrigley Field.
I wanted to say a few things to Brewers fans, some of whom I know read this site. I've read some of your comments, particularly at Brew Crew Ball, a site I admire, and frankly I was astonished at the vitriol you threw our way. For my part, I just want you to know that I have always respected the Brewers and their fans; when Milwaukee was an AL team I used to root for them, obviously, I don't any more, but I do have a great respect for what Doug Melvin and Ned Yost have built -- you guys have a very, very good team to cheer for this year (and likely, with the youth of your lineup, for many years to come), and I look forward to the rest of this season, to perhaps a closer race, and a budding rivalry that could become a great one. Let's not hate on each other. Deal?
Finally, I've heard word today that there is possible activity on the trade front involving both Jacque Jones and Cesar Izturis. Something might happen in the next couple of days. Stay tuned. After tomorrow, the Cubs will be exactly halfway through the schedule. I look forward to more excitement, and wins, in the second half.
0 recs |
203 comments
Comments
Where'd
I wonder if Cedeno's hot month is paving Izturis' way out.
I also think that Hendry is sealing his own fate by dumping all these guys he signed/traded for for pennies on the dollar. A new owner probably wouldn't be too impressed with that. But good for Piniella for making him clean up the roster.
by jazzypete on Jul 1, 2007 4:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
by jazzypete on Jul 1, 2007 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Sources say".
by Al on Jul 1, 2007 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So should Epstein be fired
by CubFaninCA on Jul 1, 2007 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brewers/Cubs means more to the other side...
Brewer fans don't get that we've had a rivalry with the Cardinals that dates FAR FAR FAR back.
The Brewer 'rivalry' will never top Cubs/Cardinals. It can't. Cub fans actually for the most part, like myself and Al, used to like the ole Brewer teams in the AL with Yount and Molitor.
As a matter of fact, I know a lot of Cub fans that have openly stated that they'll be rooting for the Brew Crew if they represent the NL Central this year because the options of (mets, phils, dodger, padre, zona, brave) the other just isn't enticing.
Most Cub fans enjoy the rivalry, but we could care less for the anger being spewed from up north.
Ah, but who knows. Maybe the rivalry can hit new levels if this goes on for the next couple of years.
by jdoolsiu on Jul 1, 2007 4:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It'd be great, wouldn't it...
by Al on Jul 1, 2007 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah that woud be great
by Me and Lou WS 07 on Jul 1, 2007 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In the early 80s
There is a certain subset of Wisconsinites who just hate everything Chicago. Most Badgers like or even love the city, but there are some that have a visceral hatred of the place. I got a lot of this as a Cub fan growing up in Madison.
I believe I know some of the psychology of it, and you can probably guess at it too. It's mostly ugly and I'll keep my thoughts to myself for fear of setting them off.
But Milwaukee and Chicago are both wonderful cities, for the most part.
by Josh77 on Jul 1, 2007 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I lived in Milwaukee
Too bad that the 5% of theirs and ours fans are jerks who usually know a bare minimum about the game are portrayed to represent the majority.
by tharr on Jul 1, 2007 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I went to school in Milwaukee too
I don't know, just my take on it. When I lived in Lake Geneva, I met many Packer/ Cub fans and only a few Brewer fans. And when I've visted in the Appleton area, they show Cub highlights on the news and people have told me they've grown up listening to Cub games in the afternoon. It's just around Milwaukee, I feel the hate for the Cubs.
I think the Brewer fans being up for the Cubs series is similar is the way that DePaul fans get up for the Marquette game, for another Milwaukee Chicago connection. I still remember their fans storming the floor in '04 (one year post Wade/ Final Four, the same year MU didn't qualify for the NCAA tournament.
by MerigoldBowling on Jul 1, 2007 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
its a lot worse
by BuckyisaCubbiesFan on Jul 2, 2007 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm kinda sad...
by WartburgCub on Jul 1, 2007 5:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
As Meat Loaf Would Say...
by nervousCUBlover on Jul 1, 2007 5:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Or To Quote Winston Churchill...
"Now this is not the end...
It is not even the beginning of the end.
But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
Let's Mop Up the Nats & Bucs & Go into the ASB 47-40!
And then win the ASG so as to get home field in the WS! :)
by nervousCUBlover on Jul 1, 2007 5:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Same situation
Small town insecurities....that big' ol mean town
to the south (or, to the North, out here) that's dirty, filled with traffic, etc etc etc.
Nothing wrong with either Mil/SD as places to live, (obviously the weather is better here) but you usually make less money, a trade of lifestyle for cash. (And in Milwaukee's case, cheaper real estate)
Also, the way Cubs fans take over Miller Park, as Dodgers fans (and Cubs fans and Red Sox fans) take over Petco infuriates the locals in both towns. But that's the way it goes. Your market is smaller. Deal with it.
Again, the nickname for those from Illinois/Chicago by those who live in America's Dairyland isn't very nice:
Fking - Ill - Bastards.
However, the code is "FIB's."
I stopped posting at the Padres site because of all the crap I took from the teens that run the site. They insulted me, even when my posts were not snarky, or insulting. I was not trolling.
Who needs the small towners, anyway....
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jul 1, 2007 5:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Or even
I remember reading a message board during the LA Angels of Anaheim controversy, and I remember someone wrote "We don't need to be associated with the gangs, drugs, crime and stuck-up attitudes of Los Angeles."
Of course you don't. Orange County has gangs, drugs, crime and stuck-up attitudes of their own.
by Josh77 on Jul 1, 2007 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah I talked over at gaslamp
besides, your a leatherneck. we gotta stick together. :)
by mike on Jul 1, 2007 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you guys are marines?
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2007 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice.
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2007 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry for the confusion
by mike on Jul 2, 2007 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
your welcome
by gary varsho on Jul 2, 2007 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry, "you're" oops.
by gary varsho on Jul 2, 2007 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I echo Mike's statement.
by Tangled Up In Blue on Jul 2, 2007 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks.
I was asked: You say you have lived here 25 years -- why haven't you assimilated???
Huh? What? Assimilated?? Is there some sort of loyalty test I have to take to live in this county??
I tried to explain -- look, if you are a native of SD, and you move elsewhere, you are telling me you wouldn't be a Padres fan?? If you say no, you: 1) You aren't much of a Padres Fan 2) You are a frontrunner.
I didn't get a satisfactory answer to the question -- just more derision.
I explained I took some terrible abuse here in 1984. (Most of the posters weren't even born yet, and didn't understand why I -- am still upset.)
I am like their "Gaius." (I guess)
Strangely enough, I just flipped over to Gaslamp today, (for the first time since I left) and, of course, there it is, my name comes up again. Obviously, I made an impact.
I signed off, and asked them to delete my account, for I have no need to visit a site where there seem to be more posts about Marcus Giles' penchant for nudity than actual 'baseball' stories. (Guess the sarcasm didn't go over well.)
I may be moving to LA later this year, so I really don't give a damn about those people.
Dodgers fans are a bit more secure in their loyalty. You take a little crap there, but it's absolutely no big deal whatsoever. And this 'rumor' that keeps floating around about Dodger Stadium being 'unsafe' (Oh, how they love to state that over and over on gaslampball) is really -- filtered with racist undertones.
I did enjoy the frustration they suffered the 3 days the Red Sox were here. 50% of the crowds, decidedly Red Sox fans. The local paper had a story about a long-time Padres ticket holder (from Boston) who abandonded his Padres gear for the series in favor of the Bosox. I just loved that.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jul 1, 2007 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
a couple comments
- don't compare yourself to gaius
- I saw the stuff about the red sox and found it amusing. Kind of reminded me of the pissing match that started up about the cubs fan presence in milwaukee
by mike on Jul 2, 2007 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, no
These "Leathernecks" that were just referenced are those of Western Illinois University in Macomb -- the only school in the county which takes its' nickname from one of the branches of the services.
The bulldog (Rocky, the bulldog -- to be accurate) is the logo/team mascot.
I am a grad of WIU. Loved that place, had a great time and it's a wonderful school -- big enough to have everything, but it's not massive like Illinois, or NIU or SIU so you get lost in the shuffle. (Just a thought for those who might be considering one of the 'directional' schools in the Land Of Lincoln..)
Not that far from Chicago and St Louis, either.
It's in the part of Illinois that (at the time) the residents called "Forgotonia."
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jul 1, 2007 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's okay, jazz man
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2007 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WIU....wow...the memories
Don't post here often, but I read every day and always enjoy your posts. I feel your pain on the '84 references in S.D.
by cubrandy on Jul 1, 2007 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jazz Man
by Tangled Up In Blue on Jul 2, 2007 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WIU!
by Tater01 on Jul 2, 2007 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
all of us WIU alumn on here
by mike on Jul 2, 2007 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
padres fans
by BuckyisaCubbiesFan on Jul 2, 2007 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather be a FIB (or SOB) than a cheesehead...
by kcjones on Jul 2, 2007 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great game today.
I look forward to each game and am so glad they have turned things around. Exciting times for sure.
by sue369 on Jul 1, 2007 5:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Cubs All Stars
by sanantonecub on Jul 1, 2007 5:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Chicago All-Star Starters:
by DTJchris on Jul 1, 2007 5:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
that's too
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2007 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fonzie will probably
I'd recommend you go vote on-line. I was watching the Pads/Dodgers and Matty V was urging plenty of Padres votes, because as he put it: "...Cubs fans are everywhere, and Chris Young SHOULD be on the team. (The new vote, the last time I looked at 2p PDT hadn't started yet.)
Screw you, V. Chris Young should miss at least 2 starts because of the fracas w/Lee, but he'll probably only miss one.
Let's make sure that Mr. Young stays home.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jul 1, 2007 5:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
RIGGED?!!?
Wasn't Soriano up by 30,000 votes or something?
by jdoolsiu on Jul 1, 2007 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
speaking of rigged
michael young?
brian fuentes?
freddy sanchez?
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2007 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Young was a Leyland Pick
by DTJchris on Jul 1, 2007 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
why?
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2007 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It should have been
by DenverCub on Jul 1, 2007 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol!
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2007 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
seriously
by jdoolsiu on Jul 1, 2007 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only 100K ahead
Folks, we have no one to blame but ourselves. And Fonzie has been named as a reserve.
by Josh77 on Jul 1, 2007 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
120,000 vote lead?
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
by jdoolsiu on Jul 1, 2007 5:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Granted the Fonz was robbed
by DTJchris on Jul 1, 2007 5:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That's because...
by Al on Jul 1, 2007 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sad
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2007 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've often felt that way...
Maybe the fans could still vote, but the managers could override one starter per team if they felt it was really a bad selection.
by Al on Jul 1, 2007 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's actually
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2007 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fan voting is corrupt
Have the managers pick the teams, give the fans a couple of "final" votes after the selections.
by sanantonecub on Jul 1, 2007 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they do
it's up right now. go vote for carlos! and toss one for neshek, too. that guy is lights out.
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2007 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know this
by sanantonecub on Jul 1, 2007 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
split vote?
that way you could keep the "excitement" of fan voting, but still have some more reasonable picks based on performance
by bobby h on Jul 1, 2007 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would make sense, too.
by Al on Jul 1, 2007 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not...
And having the managers step in isn't always the best idea. You think that MANAGERS are less likely to vote for the established veterans than the fans are?
(And if you take a look at Baseball Prospectus's VORP list, Griffey and Bonds both rate. It's Carlos Beltran that's blocking Holliday on the All-Star starters.)
by cwyers on Jul 1, 2007 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't say this is Holliday's
He is only 27-years-old and perhaps the best hitter in the NL, right up there with Pujols and Cabrera. Holliday will continue to be a great hitter and has only gotten better with every year in the league. Yes, Griffey has the name, but Holliday has the Numbers
by DTJchris on Jul 1, 2007 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Griffey
It's Beltran that doesn't deserve to be starting.
by Josh77 on Jul 1, 2007 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
None of the Mets......
by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jul 1, 2007 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soriano was robbed?
He got robbed? The only thing wrong with the final tally is that it was as close as it was. The fact that Bonds barely beat Soriano is a testament to the idiocy of baseball fans all around this country. I don't give a rat's ass how much you like or dislike a man...this game is about winning and getting home field advantage to the NL and any person that didn't vote for Bonds should no longer be allowed to vote. Period. I'm dead serious.
Now...if you didn't vote at all...good for you. But if you did vote and you didn't vote for Bonds...
People wonder why I think it's a joke that they allow fans to vote for the all-star starters. It's worse than pathetic. The average IQ of the fan voting is less than the temperature of ice cream.
by Maddog on Jul 1, 2007 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry...
by DTJchris on Jul 1, 2007 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disgraced this game?
Darn you, Barry! You broke my heart. I thought this was a game of honor, but I've read internet reports that your hat size is 3 times bigger and you've now disgraced this great game that has no blemishes on its record.
Are you serious? Honestly? If you think Bonds disgraced this game you don't know the history of this game and apparently don't even care to learn it.
by Maddog on Jul 1, 2007 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is that
by tharr on Jul 1, 2007 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well....
by BeerCub on Jul 1, 2007 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, Leave It Someone Like You....
by BeerCub on Jul 1, 2007 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and to say he is the best player in the NL
I can think of plenty of players I would rather have: Pujols, Reyes, Wright, Utley, Howard, Peavy, Webb, Holliday, Cabrera, H. Ramirez, etc...
by DTJchris on Jul 1, 2007 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
see above
by Thelonious on Jul 1, 2007 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahh yes.....
by BeerCub on Jul 1, 2007 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you catch on quickly
by Thelonious on Jul 1, 2007 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so...
by DTJchris on Jul 1, 2007 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no
by Thelonious on Jul 1, 2007 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's a suggestion
You know, the first step is admitting you have a problem...
by DTJchris on Jul 1, 2007 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have a problem
My problem: I can't resist arguing with moronic comments on the internet. If I could turn this moment into powder, I would snort it.
by Thelonious on Jul 1, 2007 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
please...I wish you would elaborate on that
How is saying I would rather build a team around youth, speed, pitching, and defense than a 43-year-old guy who runs like a the freakin tin man and can only hit HR's at this point in his career moronic?
Please, I want to hear your argument. Or is all you can do is make incredibly simple statement like "IQ < Ice Cream"
by DTJchris on Jul 1, 2007 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we aren't talking about building a team
I haven't taken a math class for a few years, but (stop me if I'm wrong) I seem to vaguely remember reading in a textbook that an OPS of 1.119 is a higher number than Prince Fielder's .985 (especially when you consider the fact that OBP is weighted more heavily than slugging in the most current metrics, and bonds is on base in more than half of his plate appearances).
Fielder, of course, does win major points for being the defensive whiz that he is. He has a shockingly low number of errors at first base, with 10.
I do realize that my alcoholism and chronic delusions do hinder my math skills (along with the advised ban on operating heavy machinery), so let me know if my calculations were off. Plus, my abacus is in the shop getting a fresh set of beads.
by Thelonious on Jul 1, 2007 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...I think that we are arguing over two
Also, if you had read my post correctly, I did not have Fielder on my list of players I would rather take over Bonds. (Not that I saying I wouldn't but he isn't on my list so I don't know why you are using him for your example).
So, perhaps, you should read a little more closely before saying "IQ < Ice Cream" because, one example of a low IQ is not being able to comprehend what you read.
by DTJchris on Jul 1, 2007 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
take your own advice
Any question regaring who is the best player going forward (2008 and beyond) is irrelevant.
I haven't looked at counting stats (like VORP), and I imagine bonds probably hasn't been the most productive player in the NL this year, since he sits out frequently, but he has clearly been the best player in the nl, statistically speaking, when he plays.
Maddog did neglect to mention Chipper Jones (he's the only player close to bonds this year production-wise when he plays). I think this is because maddog is privately sweet on barry bonds.
by Thelonious on Jul 1, 2007 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess we'll just agree to disagree
Is Bonds the best player for hitting HR's and having pitchers not pitch to him? Most likely yes, but I feel that that is not the only factor in determining a players wealth.
All I'm saying is that there are literally dozens of other players I would rather have over Bonds and that should be a determining factor when discussing when a player is "The Best" since if he was "The Best" there shouldn't be any players one would rather have.
by DTJchris on Jul 1, 2007 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're not allowed to simply disagree
by BeerCub on Jul 1, 2007 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, whatever moron!
by DTJchris on Jul 1, 2007 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
You're talking about who you'd rather have moving forward and I don't disagree, but right now at this very moment the player that can most help win an all-star game that does in fact matter for some damn reason these days, is Barry Bonds. I could load you up with stat after stat showing Bonds to be the best hitter in the NL this season, but you're not going to pay attention anyway so I'm not going to bother.
I'll tell you what though. Let me amend my initial comment to say that anybody who voted for Soriano, but not Bonds should never be allowed to vote again. To be completely honest with you, I'd favor never allowing someone who did that to enter a baseball game again. Not even one at the Little League level.
The undeniable FACT is that Bonds is having a SIGNIFICANTLY better season than Soriano and it's not even worth debating. This game matters...for some stupid reason. Put aside your damn anger and hurt feelings for a minute and think about what's best for the National League for crying out loud. It's possible, though not likely, but it's possible the Cubs could be that team that home field advantage comes into play...vote for the best damn players or don't vote it all. It's that simple. If you're going even consider voting for someone or not voting for someone because you like them or don't like them...put your ballot down.
That kind of crap is fine if this game doesn't matter, but it does. The NL needs to win the damn thing and it's people like you who make it more difficult than it should be. You're not awarding anybody for anything. You're hopefully awarding the National League...hopefully the Cubs with home field advantage in the World Series. I'd think that you could put aside your hurt feeling to think clearly for a moment and make the decision that best gives the NL a chance to win.
I'm sorry for ranting about his over here. I truly am. This whole Barry Bonds issue just pisses me off and it pisses me off even more when I read shit like this.
I'm sorry to all.
by Maddog on Jul 1, 2007 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, Bonds can change a game with one swing
If a player had to run down a fly ball, who would you rather have? (well, after today's drop, it might not be so cut and dry, j/k)
Soriano guns people down out in LF, he hits HR's, he steals bases, he makes many more contributions to a team than Barry Bonds does.
So I just don't see how someone can argue that anyone who considers agruing against Bonds being the best player is, well, agrumentative...or something. : )
But what got me was the "IQ > Ice Cream" comment, because, well, it's a personal attack when it is very easy to argue that Barry Bonds is NOT the best PLAYER in the League, which is something you claimed.
by DTJchris on Jul 1, 2007 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aram Should have been picked
Notice he also picked Pujols to be on his team too.
by cmf0203 on Jul 1, 2007 5:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
yep
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2007 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course he should have......
by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jul 1, 2007 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he deserves to be on the team
I have no argument with Pujols being there. He's the only cardinal to make it anyway.
by cashcowsquirtingsourmilk on Jul 1, 2007 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd buy that.....
by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jul 1, 2007 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
by DenverCub on Jul 1, 2007 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly........
by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jul 1, 2007 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too bad about the Brewer vitrol
by coral on Jul 1, 2007 5:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think every team has its
by Neifi Puppy on Jul 1, 2007 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that is creative
by coral on Jul 1, 2007 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am happy to say I will be the first to say......
Sorry but I had to.
by louslovechild on Jul 1, 2007 6:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Regarding Aram.
by louslovechild on Jul 1, 2007 6:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
FINAL VOTE IS UP
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2007 6:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Al...
by Damen Jackson on Jul 1, 2007 6:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think I'll do better than that.
by Al on Jul 1, 2007 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Further...
You can get an unlimited supply of valid email addresses here.
by Al on Jul 1, 2007 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why didn't you post that......
by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jul 1, 2007 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Should have.
I was surprised Ramirez didn't make the team, too.
by Al on Jul 1, 2007 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still think Ramirez...
by Damen Jackson on Jul 1, 2007 7:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure he'll get in......
by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jul 1, 2007 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm upset...
by WartburgCub on Jul 1, 2007 6:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Who to Close?
I wouldn't mind seeing him take the closer job away from Dempster, but Lou would not do that to a vet. I wonder if he'd alternate between the two? I would like to see Jones-Izturis-Eyre packaged for a vet reliever, and then Cedeno brought up to compete with Theriot for the starter job.
by SpudV on Jul 1, 2007 6:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Please tell us
by tharr on Jul 1, 2007 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some other team with...
by Al on Jul 1, 2007 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK
by tharr on Jul 1, 2007 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We'll see.
by Al on Jul 1, 2007 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've seen this show before...
by Damen Jackson on Jul 1, 2007 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you get any info
by jazzypete on Jul 1, 2007 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Texas
Not sure why they would want Jones, but hey, why not?
by JFCubFan on Jul 1, 2007 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about this?
by zambranofan on Jul 1, 2007 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where do I sign?
by krummy12 on Jul 1, 2007 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guys...
by Damen Jackson on Jul 1, 2007 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trade Partner?
How about the A's and Jason Kendall's fat contract?
They are thin in the OF since trading Bradley and have Suzuki at C that they want to give more at bats to.
I think Hendry is a Kendall fan too.
What do you guys think?
by GoCubsGo! on Jul 1, 2007 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe?
for
Jones (6M), Izturis (4.2), and Bowen
by GoCubsGo! on Jul 1, 2007 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
given all these options
by elgato on Jul 1, 2007 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Back to your original question of who to close....
by LuisSalazar on Jul 1, 2007 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Question Is
by Imtrejo on Jul 1, 2007 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
big win today
by NDcubsfan on Jul 1, 2007 7:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Al - is Chad Qualls on the Astros
by coral on Jul 1, 2007 7:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not to my knowledge...
They make no mention of any relation between the two Quallses.
by Al on Jul 1, 2007 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
might take on Jones and Izturis and Eyre
- they can't seem to solidify their outfield
- Jones seems to play better in the AL
- Jones would be able to "avenge" himself playing against the twinkies in an attempt to get past them in the central
by Bluelou on Jul 1, 2007 7:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Brewers fans
I was in on the mezzanine suites with my company and I had a blast. I didn't think i would like sitting up there but it was pretty cool.
It was good to get that win today. Hopefully they can keep this going next week and go into the all-star break a few over .500.
by mike on Jul 1, 2007 7:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
brewers fans 2
on the other hand, i feel al on his point. i've been the target of some of the brewer vitriol and hostilities (albeit in milwaukee rather than a wrigley).
by bobby h on Jul 1, 2007 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
On Brew Crew Ball.....
Speaking of just talking about it, it's also a shame they decide to take a few ill conceived posts about throwing at guys and brand all Cub fans with it. Of course, reasonable people would not condone something like that. Especially after all the Cubs have been through fight-wise in the last month, the last thing this team needs is another beanball war. I mean, think about it for a second instead of "having all this pent up anger".
Then again, if my team lost 2 of 3 this weekend, I'd be irrational too.
by BeerCub on Jul 1, 2007 7:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
some of those
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2007 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fielder's K
by SpudV on Jul 1, 2007 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2007 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nasty!
Marquis was totally effective today when he needed to be - he hit his spots and suckered some Milwaukee batters on high fastballs. The Riot should be starting at short tomorrow - it's great to see guys like Theriot, DeRosa, Floyd and Fontenot competing for four spots. Competition is a good thing and the Cubs are on the move!
by mastrick on Jul 1, 2007 8:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
people who say:
I don't dispute that he's a good baseball player, but I'm about 753 times hearing that statement past profusely annoyed.
Call me crazy, but the 10-20 players (including pitchers) who are better than Reyes excite me more. Watching the summer olympics for a couple weeks every four years is enough to satisfy my desire to watch people run fast.
by Thelonious on Jul 1, 2007 8:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Watching Pie Go Fast
by SpudV on Jul 1, 2007 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he needs to be better
He needs to hit for a high average (.290+) or hit around 20 homers per year or some combination of both for me to be pleased with him.
by Thelonious on Jul 1, 2007 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm calling you
by TheEman on Jul 1, 2007 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thank you
by Thelonious on Jul 1, 2007 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
On Bonds...
There is much circumstancial evidence from accounts I have read that certainly point to Bonds cheating. He is not alone.
I have also not read the Grand Jury testimony, nor have any of you unless you happen to work for the U.S. Attorney's office in San Francisco, but until and unless it is released, we simply just all are speculating.
So, I also recognize that Barry Bonds is tremendously talented and has fought through knee injuries as well as incredible public scrutiny in order to be putting a very good season together.
Is he "the best player in the NL"? NOT in my opinion.
would I rather take "twenty guys" as someone said?
No. He'd be in my top ten. Still, he is a guy that ANY pitcher has to pitch around on every at bat which alters an ENTIRE GAME plan for an opponent. This fact is huge. There are only a few players in MLB that command this attention.
Think about it. Pujols, A-Rod, A-Ram, Manny, Big Papi, Vlad, Delgado?
And...Bonds.
However, to me "the best player in the NL" has to take into account an all around game and I'd have to say on the fielding/throwing side, he is not up to muster - nor are several of the above sluggers by definition.
by TheEman on Jul 1, 2007 9:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
this is the subject of my post
most of those guys aren't in the nl.
A-Rod HAS been a better player than bonds this year. Their OPS difference is small enough that A-Rod's more demanding defensive position puts him well over the top. We're talking exclusively NL, however.
by Thelonious on Jul 1, 2007 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree...
The AL benefits from the DH with more AB's and more pure hitters.
HITTERS.
The following are also not too shabby hitters that I'd include as terrific players in the NL:
Todd Helton
Ryan Howard
Miguel Cabrera
Carlos Lee
Prince Fielder
Your argument that Bonds is the "best player in the NL" just doesn't hold water in the Mc Covey Cove, imo.
by TheEman on Jul 1, 2007 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could Bonds be considered the best HITTER
But Power, incredible hand-eye coordination, and a very quick bat are really the only things Bonds has going for him anymore. Playing on a pretty bad team means that all this 'greatness' that he possesses doesn't translate into very many wins for his team. And yes, I know, it's not his fault that his team sucks but the BEST PLAYER in the league would translate into more wins for his team (Considering their pitching staff has the 6th lowest ERA in the league at 3.80 and Bonds is an OFFENSIVE player)
by DTJchris on Jul 1, 2007 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
unfortunately for you
At any rate, I'm discussing this only in reference to a very specific case: the all star game. Influence over a single game is the only issue of importance operating in this scenario. I noticed you added "imo" to your post. Note that I don't do that, because opinion has nothing to do with my point. Personally, I think bonds is an uncompromising douchebag, but the statistical argument is pretty black and white. If you disagree with this assessment, then you either don't understand baseball and/or math, or you're letting your personal feelings about bonds cloud your judgment.
by Thelonious on Jul 1, 2007 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, unfortunately for you...
BONDS is NOT in top 5 in BA in NL this year
BONDS is not in top 5 in HR this year
BONDS is not in top 5 in RBI in NL this year (A-Ram has 45 to his 38)
He has 82 fucking walks in 192 PA. Which is almost 100 PA's LESS than Todd Helton. THUS explains his very high OBP and OPS in part.
And, he has the best part of software developers who like the Giants creatively stuffing ballot boxes.
Respectfully, you are full of shit on this argument.
Slant your stats how you like...he is not the "best player" in the NL this year. Just getting Bay Area votes.
by TheEman on Jul 1, 2007 11:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
From Bill James, Father of Sabremetrics
OTM: When evaluating hitters, which stat do you think is the most important to be aware of? Which stat do you tend to look at the most to judge if a hitter is successful or not?
James: The trick is not to look at one stat, but to balance them all. I don't think there is anything in a hitter's record that you can ignore.
http://www.overthemonster.com/story/2005/7/25/11726/4777
by TheEman on Jul 2, 2007 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The happiest man in baseball
Since the fans voted Mr. Bonds in, he didn't have to choose him. And, you know the media would have flamed him, saying 'you only did that because the game was in SF' even though, as pointed out earlier -- Bonds' numbers are OK, overall.
So, the fans, as a group -- get the flak, not TLR.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jul 1, 2007 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
anyone see
by LuisSalazar on Jul 1, 2007 10:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I doubt Cherry is
I believe this is Jim Hendry using the rule loopholes to keep Petrick around without really sending him down.
According to BB on today's telecast, Petrick NEVER went to Iowa, he just 'took the day off' at his parents' home in Morris. (Illinois)
The rules state if a player who plays the same position is hurt, a player of the same position (who was just sent down) can be 'immediately' recalled. The 10-day rule (or whatever # of days the rule states) is waived. Therefore, Petrick is...'back.' (Wow! Does that paragraph make any sense?)
I would assume this doesn't count against Petrick's 'options' either...but I don't claim to know the recall rules...
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jul 1, 2007 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You use up
So Petrick has used one option. They can call him up and down fifty times this season and it would still only be one option.
by Josh77 on Jul 1, 2007 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I heard about Petrick...
by Damen Jackson on Jul 2, 2007 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no question about it....
by LuisSalazar on Jul 2, 2007 8:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I took the EL on Friday with a several Brewer fans
BTW...40-40 .500 BALL!! Need to go into the break a few above, though.
by Jettero2112 on Jul 1, 2007 10:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Marquis
by danimal15 on Jul 1, 2007 10:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
you're judging on incomplete information here
I wouldn't be at all surprised if something Marquis said in between innings got him lifted.
by Thelonious on Jul 1, 2007 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very possibly correct
by danimal15 on Jul 1, 2007 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He did get a bat to the face earlier in the game..
But I agree, I would of liked to see him pitch another inning, especially since he was coming up in the batting lineup again. Wouldn't of needed Marmol to hit.
Maybe Lou was testing Marmol too? Who knows.
by GoCubbies34 on Jul 1, 2007 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Complete games?
That species is extinct.
Don Drysdale, Fergie Jenkins, Bob Gibson....our nation turns its' lonely eyes to you....
(apologies to Simon and Garfunkle)
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jul 1, 2007 10:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sadly
And those guys you mentioned must have some pretty good laughs at the joke that has become starting pitching in this era.
by danimal15 on Jul 1, 2007 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except for Drysdale
by danimal15 on Jul 1, 2007 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody has talked
Seriously. How did this happen?
by jdoolsiu on Jul 2, 2007 12:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Great finish to a great week!
Some quick hits from today's game:
- My seat was actually picked today for a prize... that was a first. The prize: a gift certificate for a dinner for two at the Buckinghams (Grand Victoria Casino in Elgin).
- Who was that putz who fell into the basket in the left field bleachers... trying to get a ball thrown from Soriano?
- D-Lee driving in Theriot on a first pitch swing in the 3rd! Emphasis on the first pitch swing. I don't know if you all have noticed as much as I, but D-Lee has been so patient at the plate this year, that he very rarely swings at the first pitch. As a result over the last 6 weeks or so, I've seen pitchers adjust and throw a ton of first pitch strikes, right down the middle. D-Lee just stares at them. He's gotta counter adjust and start jumping on those meatballs, especially in RBI situations. That might be the best pitch he'll see in a count.
- Marmol was HUGE today. I'm not even sure he threw a ball out of the zone in the 8th. Every pitch to my recollection was a called strike, swing and miss, or hit foul. He was hitting upwards of 94mph in the 8th. Then, when it got a little tense in the 9th, he reached back for a little more and hit 95 and 96mph. That's complemented by his off-speed, which slows down to 81-84mph. Great stuff!
by SackMan on Jul 2, 2007 12:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh... just wanted to add
Hill threw 90+ pitches in 3 innings, and the large majority of them were strikes... with Milwaukee fouling off 30+. They hit 29 foul balls in the first two innings alone. Wow. They were all over him. And there was an inning in his start vs Milwaukee at home earlier in the year on a rainy night where they jumped all over him, as if they knew what was coming.
Can't say as much for Marshall, as I only listened to that one on the radio... in the background of a fun afternoon at the beach. But, I suspect the BrewCrew are scouting very well.
by SackMan on Jul 2, 2007 12:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Changing Rotation
Marshall and Hill are very similar -- Hill a bit quicker with more strikeouts.
Why not put someone in between? -- probably Z if Lou decides to move him up a day before the break if he has a chance to pitch in the AS game. Even if he doesn't do it this week, do it right after the break.
You face Hill one day -- get used to the slow breaking stuff and the next day the same kind of approach with Marshall.
Sure it showed up with the good hitting team that the Brewers have but it certainly can happen again even with poorer teams.
Just an idea --
by ceegeewow on Jul 2, 2007 12:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, with 3 lefties in the rotation
I'd much rather it be Hill and Marshall that go back-to-back than Hill and Lilly. Of the 3. Hill and Lilly are more similar in my opinion.
by SackMan on Jul 2, 2007 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Brew Crew
by tharr on Jul 2, 2007 2:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I fell asleep on the couch.....
by louslovechild on Jul 2, 2007 12:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The Rotation Order.....
by cubrandy on Jul 2, 2007 1:09 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
by Al on Jul 2, 2007 4:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but...
by cwyers on Jul 2, 2007 7:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
by gary varsho on Jul 2, 2007 7:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
weight gain
by Cajuncub on Jul 2, 2007 7:42 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Some of that is...
I suspect it won't be too long before Prince has to be dealt to an AL team so he can be a fulltime DH.
by Al on Jul 2, 2007 8:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm thinking
by gary varsho on Jul 2, 2007 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They could try...
by Al on Jul 2, 2007 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This current Brewers
It's good to see teams in the NL Central grow talent and win. For all of the Cubs off season moves, some of our most valuable pieces this first half have been from our farm system.
It makes for a promising and competitive division in the future. Much like the AL Central has become with the Twins/Indians/Tigers and even White Sox.
by Tangled Up In Blue on Jul 2, 2007 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They should eventually deal Fielder
If I were Milwaukee, I'd move him sometime after this season. Enjoy his services for this division run... then get peak value for him, and send him to the AL where he can DH like his dad.
They dealt Richie Sexson, and brought in Overbay. Now, they have Fielder. They keep seeming to find 1st baseman who can hit.
by SackMan on Jul 2, 2007 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point
He will eventually end up in the AL, but moving him too early might be detrimental to the Brewers both on and off the field.
by Tangled Up In Blue on Jul 2, 2007 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's true
by gary varsho on Jul 2, 2007 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
I don't know how many years are left on his contract, which is like $350,000 a year. But, he's gonna want a new deal after this year. They should move him to the AL to a team willing to give him the dough, and get a boatload in return.
by SackMan on Jul 2, 2007 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: "Competitive division in the future"
by Kinky Reggae on Jul 2, 2007 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True that the
I know that this year the NL Central isn't a good example of a competitive division, but anytime 3 or 4 teams are one or two moves away from contending for the division title, you are going to have a competitive division. Not necessarily a strong division, but competitive none the less.
I agree that he Bucs and Reds seem beyond hope for the foreseeable future.
by Tangled Up In Blue on Jul 2, 2007 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that might work
by gary varsho on Jul 2, 2007 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is strange to
It will be very interesting to see who the Brewers decide to resign and who they let go. You're right, there is no way that many young guys will resign for at or below market value.
by Tangled Up In Blue on Jul 2, 2007 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A Brewers fan pipes up
We have started to do what the Indians did: last season we bought out Bill Hall for four years for less than market value. He's off last year's offensive totals, unfortunately, but he's also learning a new position; hopefully, the old Bill Hall will come around in the second half.
It's funny you mentioned Fielder: when he was progressing through the minors, there was much discussion about where he should play. At the time, it was his defense that led people to think, maybe he should be a DH. Although he'll probably end up there by the end of his career, I bet we'll be willing to absorb any errors at first and the fat jokes to keep his bat in the lineup over the next 5-10 years.
by roguejim on Jul 3, 2007 6:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
by SouthsideCub on Jul 2, 2007 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brewer Fans...
Enough said.
by Goat Whisperer on Jul 2, 2007 10:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
When Dempster comes back ...
If Dempster struggles when he comes back, you can always flip-flop them.
by rob9802 on Jul 2, 2007 11:43 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
....or move...
by kcjones on Jul 2, 2007 11:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
NOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by gary varsho on Jul 3, 2007 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

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