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Ryan Theriot becoming a favorite of mine.

Tiny by CuboftheSouth15 on

Ryan Theriot seems to find someway to impress me each and every game and it all starts with the little things. Ryan doesn't try to be the "hero" everytime he approachs the plate. Instead the man trys to find anyway he can possibly get on base.

 First off, we all know that Theriot is going to be the last guy of resort towards power and he even knows that himself. Theriot reminds me of a David Eckstein type though. You know the scrappy type of player that does the little things such as getting on base, stealing bases, setting up possible runs, and making contact.

Ryan has an excellent glove by the way and I just think that it might be time to part with Ronny Cedeno via trade and stick to having Ryan Theriot as are everyday shortstop. The guy comes to play everyday and he might not stick out huge on the boxscore at the end of the game but if you take the time too just watch the way that he plays his game you will understand where I am coming from.

Star-divide

I don't know if any of you realize the way he has started such rallies with just making contact and not trying to hit the damn ball over the fence everytime he gets up.

For example, If you didn't watch tonights game against St. Louis
Ryan Theriot did pretty much what I stated about him. In the top of the seventh with 2 outs and nobody on, Theriot just makes contact and just happens to be hit towards Gold Glover 3rd Baseman Scott Rolen.

 A rare error occuring by Rolen ends up continuing  the 7th and he ends up coming around to score on an Aramis Ramirez 2 out single to make it 3-2 now.

 Last, to go into the top of the ninth with two outs again, Theriot drawls a walk. Now with him on first base he decides to steal second and has converted 17 out of 20 times on the year for stolen bases. With that he set up a chance to go up by two and with the scrappy play of Theriot it turned up to be huge.

Derek Lee ended up connecting on a two out single which allowed Theriot to score and now the Cubs be up against the Cardinals 4-2.

With that run it turned out to be monumental towards the outcome of the game and the Cubs ended up winning 4-3 with the almighty Albert Pujols grounding out to...
RYAN THERIOT!

Obviously, Ryan makes a great number two hitter and possibly a leadoff hitter. Personally I would rather see him leading off with Alfonso Soriano batting second because I like to see a number two hitter with power.

I just love the way the guy plays because of his desire to be on the field and the way he hustles on every play.

Feel free to comment as I am anxious to know what my fellow Cubs fans think.

Poll
Who should our starting shortstop be?
  • Ryan Theriot
  • Ronny Cedeno
  • Mike Fontenot
  • Mark Derosa

  207 votes | Results

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation, Bleed Cubbie Blue, or Al Yellon, editor-in-chief. FanPost opinions are, however, valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

0 recs | Comment 182 comments

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I don't think there's much debate
about who should be the Cubs' starting shortstop right now. Three months ago, there was.

To provide some debate, I'll nitpick and say that you can't use the 7th inning error to support the case that Theriot does whatever he can to get on base.  It was an error. He should not have got on base and he only did because Rolen let it happen. Now, you could argue that Theriot is a great guy to have that happen to - because of his speed and his smart baserunning, helping get him around from first to home eventually. But you can't credit him for getting from home to first.

But this is half-hearted debate. I agree - Ryan is The Riot.

Why does everybody stand up and sing "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" when they're already there? ~Larry Anderson

by JohnM on Jul 25, 2007 4:28 AM CDT   0 recs

A-ROD??
What about him? JK
GO CUBS GO!!!!!!

by roach on Jul 25, 2007 4:30 AM CDT   0 recs

Theriot at Short
DeRo in Right
Fontenot on 2b
Los Cachorros!

by Laven on Jul 25, 2007 7:30 AM CDT   0 recs

For the Riot fans
a friend of a friend of a friend sent me this site...

www.addisonstation.com

Good Riot wear.

MMMMM...Hebrew National

by Kinky Reggae on Jul 25, 2007 8:13 AM CDT   0 recs

Theriot well grounded in the fundamentals
Theriot's experience within the LSU program headed up at the time by legendary Skip Bertman has been pivotal to his long term success.  These teams were expertly coached and became regular champions of the college circuit.  Fortunately, the same spirit and energy has fallen in the lap of the Cubs organization.  Fontenot shows a similar positive edge that should be further developed by Piniella's staff.  I look forward to watching Ryan in Cub pinstripes for years to come.

by Cajuncub on Jul 25, 2007 8:16 AM CDT   0 recs

not a straight up this or that guy
Theriot has earned the starting SS spot and Cedeno has reearned the utility spot now made available as Izturis trade.

Other than that competition is great for both players.

Milw-09-24-98--Brown in for defense--bases loaded--flyball--HE DROPPED THE BALL!!!NO NO NO, cubs lose 8-7

by Ivy Walls on Jul 25, 2007 8:31 AM CDT   0 recs

yeah
I really don't want a "david eckstein type". David Eckstein is bad at baseball.

Theriot's OPS is under .700, making him one of the most overrated baseball players by some people on this site. He really isn't very good.

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Jul 25, 2007 9:19 AM CDT   0 recs

However...
... you'd take Eckstein's two World Series rings, wouldn't you?

And don't say he didn't contribute or that he wasn't one of the biggest reasons for both of them, because he was.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 25, 2007 9:37 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

And wasn't Eckstein the World Series MVP?
Don't get me wrong -- I'm no big fan of the guy. Just sayin'...
Brew Crew: We are coming for you. (And we mean it this time.)

by dat cubfan daver on Jul 25, 2007 9:52 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm not sure he's overrated, just unexpected
True, he's no Hanley Ramirez, but he's a mid-stat SS that came out of our system - a system that hasn't produced a decent position player in a while.

I might agree that maybe he's getting a bit too much adulation but he's getting the job done at a position that we've been deficient at for too long.

'07 Postseason: Bears, Bulls... Cubs?

by stelmodad on Jul 25, 2007 9:49 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

re: yeah
Seriously? Does that one stat sentence Theriot to baseball purgatory?

Granted, Ryan did go through a cold spell of sorts in the last month or so (around the time Fontenot got so hot). But it seems to me, overall, he has been pretty good at baseball.

He works counts, he steals bases, he scores runs, he fields his position adequately -- and, overall, it seems like he's done this with pretty good consistency since coming to the Cubs late last season.

I realize the guy has shortcomings, but I admire what he's done for this team.

 

Brew Crew: We are coming for you. (And we mean it this time.)

by dat cubfan daver on Jul 25, 2007 9:51 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Loud sustained applause
(to the comment by dat cubfandaver). You said it just right.

Theriot is the kind of player I have seen elsewhere (Lenny Dykstra, Eckstein) but haven't seen on the Cubs much in recent years. A scrappy, hustling athlete who would run over his own mother to score a run.

"Hello again, everybody. Harry Caray from Wrigley Field on a beautiful day for baseball."

by danimal15 on Jul 25, 2007 10:30 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

And...
... one whose stat line does not fully state his contributions to the team.

Sorry, statheads, but sometimes that's a fact.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 25, 2007 10:31 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

well, I guess if you declare it a fact
it must be true.

I'm not even going to bother arguing with you, because you obviously don't want to understand statistics (proven by some of the baseless arguments above). Maybe if Theriot had a DECENT stat line I could agree with your completely unscientific gut assessment that Theriot's value doesn't show up in the box score, but (aside from his sb%) the stats he's put up have been nothing short of terrible. I do agree that he IS probably better than his stats indicate (because his stats indicate a Cedenoan (c. 2006) type year), but that doesn't mean he isn't still bad. Lucky for him, he's still much better than Izturis was, and hence he's currently our best option at SS (and made the  Izturis trade possible).

And yes, I am saying right here, right now that david eckstein is a shitty baseball player, and his contributions to the cardinals are grossly overstated by you in your post above. The fact that he was world series MVP is essentially irrelevant when assessing his worth as a baseball player: Neifi Perez hit near 400 in his first month or so with the cubs. Even crappy baseball players have the ability to put up impressive numbers over short periods. Besides, the Cubs haven't had a need for a world series mvp in like one or 70 years, wouldn't you say?

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Jul 25, 2007 11:28 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

fact?
Sorry, statheads, but sometimes that's a fact.

Pretty loose use of the word fact there. Since you cannot prove that his contributions to the team exist outside his stat line those contributions are not facts. They are your perceptions.

Differentiating fact from perception is a pretty important player evaluation tool.

by jacob on Jul 25, 2007 1:40 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Thanks!
And if Theriot's diminuitive size is hereditary, he wouldn't have to run over his mother to score. He could just do a headfirst dive over her, perform a midair somersault and complete a perfect gymnast's landing on home plate.

That's the kind of athleticism Ryan Theriot brings to the game of baseball.

Brew Crew: We are coming for you. (And we mean it this time.)

by dat cubfan daver on Jul 25, 2007 10:47 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Theriot is a baseball player
in a baseball world when too many teams focus on physical skills as opposed to baseball skills.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jul 25, 2007 10:51 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

what the hell are you talking about?
this is the kind of statement that people who call sports talk radio make.
Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Jul 25, 2007 11:31 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Baseball skills vs physical skills
if you don't understand it, it's not worth explaining.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jul 25, 2007 11:37 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

and I suppose...
you think with your gut instead of your brain, because the gut has more nerve endings?
Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Jul 25, 2007 11:44 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

No
I watch with my eyes, and observe what I see.

But hey, whatever blows your dress up.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jul 25, 2007 11:49 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

good baseball players
blow my dress up, and Theriot hasn't done anything to accomplish that. Perhaps your mancrush on him has  raised your dress via a different means besides wind?
Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Jul 25, 2007 11:59 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Mancrush?
that sounds like something you would hear from someone on sports radio, who thinks the history of baseball started with Sabermetrics.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jul 25, 2007 12:04 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

who on sports talk radio thinks that?
Precisely why I compared your views to a sports talk radio listener.....you're line of thinking is highly consistent with theirs.
Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Jul 25, 2007 12:09 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

So
if sports talk radio listeners have acknowledged that their is a difference between pure physical talent, and baseball specific talent, then you are right, my view is consistent with theirs.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jul 25, 2007 12:13 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

this is just a bullshit statement
with no thoughtful observation or substance. If you're saying what I think you're saying, your nugget of wisdom would be obvious to a 5 year old. Essentially, you mean that a track stat wouldn't be as good at baseball as an out of shape drunk like david wells, since wells has "baseball skill". Thank you, captain obvious.

Your argument still has nothing to do with Ryan Theriot. If anything, he obviously has LESS baseball specific skill than the players that are....uh.....skilled.

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Jul 25, 2007 12:48 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Ce tout
Couillion......

by Cajuncub on Jul 25, 2007 12:50 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You are free to think of it however you like
n/t
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jul 25, 2007 12:53 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

thanks for the permission
I was hoping you'd let me.
Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Jul 25, 2007 1:00 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't do it for everyone
but for you, I will make an exception.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jul 25, 2007 1:20 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Don't let the Drunk get to ya
He still believes Bonds is the best player in baseball...enough said.
"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Jul 25, 2007 12:03 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

funny, I think you just made that up
I do remember saying that he's the most potent offensive force in the NATIONAL LEAGUE when he plays (which is true), but you remember it any way you want.

A Rod has been the best player in baseball this year.

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Jul 25, 2007 12:06 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

oops, my bad
not in baseball but you did say the best in the NL

"but he has clearly been the best player in the nl"

is your exact statemet, not "most potent offensive force" but "best player in the nl".

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Jul 25, 2007 12:13 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yea, well
Barry, is Barry.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jul 25, 2007 12:08 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

OPS
Does every player on a team need to slug?

He does almost everything else pretty well. None of them great, but all pretty well. Certainly better -- and that is the point of the poll I think -- than the other current option at SS. (I think Cedeno is the only other real option.)

Why does everybody stand up and sing "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" when they're already there? ~Larry Anderson

by JohnM on Jul 25, 2007 10:34 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

brilliant
OPS....what does that stand for?
ON BASE plus slugging

In fact, OBA is weighted more than slugging in the most current metrics. Theriot has a good, but far from special OBA around 340. If he was getting on at a .380 clip, I wouldn't be having this discussion. His complete lack of slugging ability makes getting on base paramount.

And the reason OPS is important, is because team OPS correlates strongly with winning (taken independantly from pitching, of course). Why is it so hard for you traditionalists to connect the dots...high team OPS = wins. therefore players with high OPS = good.

Again, I do see the benefit of having high energy guys like Theriot (or gamers, or whatever the hell you want to call him), but his statistics have been so poor, that his "energy" doesn't make up the difference.

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Jul 25, 2007 11:42 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Theriot's OPS+ of 83
is indeed pretty bad; however, you are ignoring defense. For example, Adam Everett's OPS+ is a horrible 55, but he is phenomenal defender.

FWIW, metrics like UZR by MGL seem to consider Theriot as a good defender:

Name, Retrosheet ID, Position ,Team, Chances (Outs an average fielder would make), Range Runs,Error runs,Total Runs,Defensive Games, Runs per 150

"Theriot, Ryan",therr001,6,chn,64, 5,1,5,24,34

For comparison, Adam Everett:

"Everett, Adam",evera001,6,hou,128,11,0,11,49,35

Derek Jeter:

"Jeter, Derek",jeted001,6,nya,214,-14,1,-13,82,-24

Miguel Tejada:

"Tejada, Miguel",tejam001,6,bal,168,-1,3,1,64,3

By UZR, over 150 games, Theriot is 58 runs better than Derek Jeter defensively, and 31 runs better than Miguel Tejada.

BPro's defensive metrics, which are less reliable than UZR, also believe that Theriot is a good defender: Runs Above Average of 3 in 46 games at SS, RATE of 108.

visiting A's fan.

by rfloh on Jul 25, 2007 12:04 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

What are you thinking?!
OPS is the only stat that matters when assessing the talent of a player. PERIOD.

oh, that's a sarcastic statement by the way...

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Jul 25, 2007 12:07 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

the adults are talking
Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Jul 25, 2007 12:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree
I was purely discussing Ryan Theriot's offensive skill. He's been a surprisingly sure glove over at SS (considering the fact that he was allegedly moved from SS to 2b because he was a weak SS).
Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Jul 25, 2007 12:11 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

furthermore
Some of the people here seem to think that I think OPS is the only worthwhile stat (it's not even the most telling offensive stat). I believe that defense is more important than offense at catcher, and almost as important at shortstop (I was/am one of the biggest proponents of dumping barrett).Therefore, I don't hate theriot at SS right now, since he's had a pretty sure glove, and he's obviously our best option.

I do, however, object strongly to those here who think Theriot is an offensive force because he steals bases and provides energy. Any offensive metric you care to choose points to a BAD offensive player (hell, even bis batting average...the least statty offensive stat there is....points to a mediocre player).

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Jul 25, 2007 12:24 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Obviously
you are one, who subscribes to the theory, that every that happens on a baseball field, can be measured with statistics?
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jul 25, 2007 12:26 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

yes
Essentially, everything aside from luck/variation over short sample sizes can be analyzed statistically. I gather that because you can't, or won't try to understand statistical analysis you try to dismiss it in favor of gut-based bullshit.

Whether anyone out there understands how to decipher a given stat is irrelevant. The fact remains that almost everything in baseball shows up in some statistical form. The great challenge lies in deciphering meaning from copious data.

I don't get why this is so hard to understand. Everything that happens in a baseball game/season plays out like a massive computer program. Every event has a cause and effect. Winning depends on the outcome of numerous variables, causes and effects, and represents a macro-scale interaction between players on the same team, and players from opposing teams. As a result, every variable necessarily shows up in some statistical form.

Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Jul 25, 2007 12:38 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That's all I needed to know
n/t
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jul 25, 2007 1:43 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Exactly.
This entire argument is ridiculous, because it is being made by people who think everything can be boiled down to a stat on a spreadsheet.

The simple fact is, and you, MPH73, having played the game, know that is simply not true. There are things about winning baseball that cannot be measured on a stat sheet. Period. That is a fact, and it is incontrovertible.

For Thelonious to call people names and use profanity in trying to explain his position is just plain wrong. We can disagree about things, but the fact is, baseball is played by human beings on a field, not by computers. Until it's played by robots, there will be things that win games that do not show up in any "metrics", advanced or not.

Finally, many of you who quote statistics to back up your positions ad nauseum are using stats as an end in themselves. That's just plain wrong.

But you go right ahead. David Eckstein may be a statistically crappy player. But he helped two teams win World Series by things he did on the field. That is a fact. And someday Ryan Theriot may do the very same thing.

I'm finished arguing about this.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 25, 2007 1:55 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

as you say, "loud sustained applause"
I don't particularly like the theory that people  can determine a players worth without ever watching a player play.  All they do is base their opinions on stat sheets and nothing more.  There are so many variables that happen in baseball that can't and won't ever be determinable by statistics.  

Give me a grizzled old baseball vet that has been in the game for his entire life over a computer geek who's never seen a game in his life any day for determining a player's worth.  And I'm not calling anyone here names or making any judgements on anybody on this board when I say that.

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Jul 25, 2007 2:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Gary Hughes convinced Jimbo....
...that Jason Kendall was going to have a huge second half. Enough said?

by tyger1147 on Jul 25, 2007 2:37 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

What's he played?
6 games with the Cubs, hardly a complete 2nd half.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jul 25, 2007 2:41 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes, 6 games do determine
a player's worth!  Plus, Offense is everything!
"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Jul 25, 2007 2:43 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

So you two will allow us, then...
...to re-evaluate Kendall at the end of the year and see if he did have a big second half? And if, indeed, the starters didn't do worse than with Barrett in there?

You'll allow us to revisit this at the end of the year then?

by tyger1147 on Jul 25, 2007 3:09 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

uh...Sure
you can probably even evaluate him before the end of the season, but it's hard to make a decision after 6 games
"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Jul 25, 2007 3:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm not a devout stathead
as I think there are plenty of things that can't be explained simply by the numbers.

That said, the idea that you think you can look at Theriot on the field and have a clue as to what unmeasurable factors he brings to the table that really help a team is absurd.  You are making an argument based on what you think you see the hour or so that Theriot is actually on the field.  

It's an argument that you can rehash ad nauseum (as you do with your claim that Damian Miller was responsible for the 2003 NL Central Title), but it's an argument that cannot be backed up in any reasonable fashion.  It's you making up what you think the impact of a player like Theriot or Eckstein has.  When people respond with stats, you pronounce that stats don't prove anything.  But the only other option is for people to say that they have a better way of measuring immeasurables than you do.  Those kind of arguments are great for elementary school, but hardly make for good adult baseball discussion.

by Porfi on Jul 25, 2007 2:11 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

well said
Very well said!

I've been trying to say exactly that for quite a while here. The thing that consistently drives me nuts is the ends justify the means mentality.

It's used all the time here.

Eckstein is good cause the cardinals won the world series. A pitcher pitched well cause the team won the game. A hitter hit well cause his base hit came with men on base, etc, etc, etc.

It's just an entirely flawed attempt at reasoning. Luckily this is just baseball and nobody gets hurt. The worst that happens is a 96 million dollar team loses 96 games. Outside of baseball that kind of thinking is dangerous.

by jacob on Jul 25, 2007 4:39 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Nominated!!!
For most ridiculous, hyperbolic statement of the day! (and that's saying a lot in this thread)

Did you guys see how Eckstein hit that lazy pop fly to left-center where he knew the grass had been over-watered and Curtis Granderson would slip? Thus making it a big run-producing double than turned the game. It was Theriot-like.

Or how he willed his teammates to hit those bunts and weak grounders back to pitchers and then made them commit a number of errors? That's amazing.

I ask you to please name 3 things Theriot does, things that can't be measured in stats, that help his team win.

by tyger1147 on Jul 25, 2007 2:36 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That's exactly the point.
You can't make a list of them. Such a list does not exist.

But if something on the field happens that exemplifies this, it can easily be noted at the time that it does. It's called "doing the little things".

You may not be able to measure it, but managers notice. Teammates notice. And opponents notice.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 25, 2007 3:08 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

YOU DARN WELL CAN MEASURE IT!!!
Tharr just pointed it out.

I notice those things, too, Al. But ya know what? I also notice when he K's in the last at-bat of the game. Or when he goes in a slump. Or when he gets lucky because one of the best 3B in the game makes an error.

I like theriot. He doesn't try to do more than he can. He plays to his strengths to minimize his weaknesses. But he's not that good of a player. There are probably 20-25 SS I'd rather have than him.

Aramis Ramirez doesn't hustle. He doesn't come to play every day. He has no plate discipline. Until this year, he was an average defender, at best.

You take 8 of the former. I'll take 8 of the latter. Who wins?

by tyger1147 on Jul 25, 2007 3:19 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You know damn well..
... that it takes all types of players to make up a team.

I'll take people who perform on the field in various different ways, whether it's a Ramirez hitting home runs, or a Theriot hustling. Takes all types.

You go right ahead and put together a "team" of players who have good statistics. They'll look great on paper, and they might suck on the field.

If I have to explain the reasons why this is so, maybe you shouldn't be a baseball fan.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 25, 2007 3:32 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Now you're telling me what fan I can be?
Wow.

You don't have to explain this, because I understand what factor luck plays into baseball. Apparently, you don't believe in luck?

And what's the quotes around "team" for?

It's rather unfortunate that someone who has such a popular baseball site really doesn't understand the game at all. It's sad. I feel sorry for the people who come her for knowledge and get sucked into lesser understanding than what they originally had.

If you don't get that, maybe you should do more movie reviews.

by tyger1147 on Jul 25, 2007 3:38 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't understand the game at all?
What a joke. I'm sure the overwhelming majority of people here realize how full of it you are.

Now go on back to one of the stat geek sites, where you can all congratulate each other on how statistically smart you are. Enjoy yourselves.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 25, 2007 3:40 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

My point proven...
...the people here have their heads so far under the sand, you're probably right.

And the "you don't know baseball" thing was basically just a repeat of what you said to me. It doesn't feel good, does it?

by tyger1147 on Jul 25, 2007 3:42 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

this is Al at his most ignorant
I generally stop reading after you proclaim unsubstantiated observations and opinions as "incontrivertible fact". It just isn't even worth my time to argue sgainst such an immovable, yet fallacious position.
Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Jul 25, 2007 3:08 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Nor is it worth my time...
... to respond to anything calling me names.

Knock it off.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 25, 2007 3:09 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm hardly calling you names
I'm using the adjective "ignorant" to describe you. If you're going to continue making baseless statements, I'll continue to describe you as such.
Baby, you got a stew goin'

by Thelonious on Jul 25, 2007 3:15 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

When you say "baseless statements"...
... you mean that I'm not quoting statistics.

I just got finished saying that the value of a certain player, in some cases, cannot be measured by numbers on a spreadsheet.

That is, in truth, an incontrovertible fact. You cannot disprove my statement. Thus to call it "ignorant", is, in fact, wrong.

I could say it's "ignorant", but I choose not to.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 25, 2007 3:19 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You can even say...
...what helps wins games. You said "they exist" but I don't know what they are. What the heck does that even mean.

"doing the little things" What are those little things? How can you say they exist if you don't even know what they are? I know what a friggin' unicorn is. I could at least describe it to you.

You're just saying these things to get your site hits up. I'm convinced of it.

by tyger1147 on Jul 25, 2007 3:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You're so full of it....
... because obviously, you, and some others, are convinced that my site hits are in some way connected to the small amount of money I make on this site.

Nothing could be further from the truth; however, how I do make money from this site is none of your business.

This is the last thing I will EVER say on this topic.

About the other thing you mention, yes, "little things" that are not measurable on stat sheets can win baseball games. Can I quantify what they are? No, I can't.

Go on back to your spreadsheets. Hope you enjoy them. Me, I enjoy ballgames played by human beings.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 25, 2007 3:31 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs