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Keeping Pace

Alyellontoppscard_tiny by Al Yellon on in Chicago Cubs Recaps

Before we talk about last night's 4-3 come-from-behind Cubs win over the Cardinals, I know you are probably most concerned, as am I, with Mark DeRosa's injury, described as "left hamstring tendinitis."

Well, I dunno. This could be serious, or could be nothing. We'll know more later today. DeRosa, as you know, has been just about the MVP of this team, playing five different positions and producing offensively (though he was hitting only .233 in his last ten games).

But look. The Cubs have survived the following:

  • Alfonso Soriano missed 5 games after a minor hamstring pull and wasn't 100% after that, and didn't really start hitting until May. Felix Pie was recalled and the Cubs went on a bit of a run.
  • Losing Aramis Ramirez for two weeks.
  • Losing Ryan Dempster for three weeks.
  • Missing Derrek Lee for five games during his suspension.
  • And, having Carlos Zambrano get off to a 5-5, 5.62 beginning to his season in his first 12 starts.
This year's Cubs have been incredibly resilient, and I'm going to give credit to Lou Piniella for instilling this within them, getting them to believe in their own abilities to win, and putting (for the most part) the right combinations of players on the field.

Since that start, Z is 8-2, 1.56 and now leads the National League in victories with 13. He wasn't dominant last night, but the Cubs had just enough to get by St. Louis, and they needed the ninth-inning run that Ryan Theriot (and I find myself agreeing with CuboftheSouth15's diary -- Theriot is rapidly becoming a favorite of all of us with his hustle and desire and sparkplug play) helped generate with a two-out walk, because Dempster decided to make things interesting by giving the Cardinals a ninth-inning run.

And so, since all the teams the Cubs are chasing for either the division or wild-card lead (Milwaukee, Atlanta, Arizona, San Diego) also won last night, leaving the Cubs 3 games behind the Brewers (2 in the loss column), and 1.5 games behind the Padres for the wild-card lead (though only 1 in the loss column), here's a look through some of today's headlines, all of which have some significance beyond last night's win.

  • The Cubs' base coaches won't commit to wearing helmets in the wake of the tragic death of Mike Coolbaugh, saying "the best protection is staying alert." Right, guys. Whatever you say. Sometimes, as we saw the other night, that isn't good enough. Would you rather be uncomfortable or dead?
  • Kerry Wood could be in a Cubs uniform as soon as next week if his back-to-back outings for Peoria tomorrow and Friday go well. Says Jim Hendry, "... that would certainly be better than any trade we could make." Well, you know how many of us have felt about Wood for a long time. It's almost too much to expect anything from him, although I know I'm hoping, because it would not only bring a guy who has a tremendous clubhouse presence back, but if he is indeed healthy, you've got a 95+ MPH fastball back in the bullpen. And, Trader Jim may also be looking for a hitter:
    "It'll be a daily thing," Hendry said.

    "I'd like to tinker with it a little bit if we could. A lot of that will be dependent on how we swing the bat the rest of the week."

  • Both Rick Morrissey and Rick Telander wrote columns today about the recent events in sports that give us all reason to question whether the games we love are on the up-and-up. I'm not usually a Morrissey fan, but he's got it exactly right:
    We hold this truth to be self-evident: that when we watch a sporting event we expect the sweat and the emotion to be real. We expect the blood to contain red blood cells, not red food coloring. You might not know the outcome of a Harry Potter movie going in, but walking out you know that, as stunning as it might have been, someone's death from a backfired spell wasn't real. It was the product of the author's wonderful imagination.

    This is an especially painful time for anyone who cares about sports. We are being asked to consider a very unpleasant question: What's real anymore?

And this on the day after Bud Selig decided to try to be present for Barry Bonds' upcoming record-breaker after all:
"I felt, frankly, for me this was the right thing to do," Selig told the media in an impromptu press-box gathering during the fifth inning of Tuesday night's 7-5 Atlanta victory that lasted 13 innings. "I'm always confident in my decisions to do the right thing. This is one of those situations in life that somebody is going to be mad, but I've been in that role before. It's damned if you do and damned if you don't, but I think it's the right thing for me to be here and I'm here."
As I wrote last week, after much thought I decided I was glad myself to have been a witness to history. The HR record is going to fall. What to make of that is something that only the perspective of a few years' time will give to all of us. Until then, I agree with Selig. He doesn't have to "celebrate" with Bonds, but his action is the correct one; the presence of baseball's leader at a time when perhaps the most revered record in all of sports falls, is the right thing to do (and at Bonds' present pace, Selig may be piling up frequent-flier miles if he intends to be at every Giants game till the 756th HR is hit; Bonds has hit only three HR since June 29, one in Cincinnati on July 3, and the two at Wrigley Field last week).

Onward to tonight. Let's beat those Cardinals again.

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Yes Al - Beat those Cardinals!
Last night's win makes the Cubs 52 - 46 having played 98 games.  That leaves 64 to go.  If we can play 600 baseball the rest of the way (38 - 26), guess what - that's 90 wins.

And like all of you, yes I'd love to have Kerry Wood back. Is it hoping for too much to see the old "Kerry with a K"?  

by Ihatethecards on Jul 25, 2007 9:02 AM CDT reply actions  

Great point
playing .600 ball seems realistic now and 90 wins.....that didn't even seem remotely possible in May but we may be right on that number. We need to keep adding on this long hot streak (20-27).
This is Harry Carray, goodbye from Wrigley Field and So Long Everybody.

by mrcubsfan on Jul 25, 2007 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't care for Bonds
But it has nothing to do with whether he did or didn't take steroids. He has always come off to people who aren't in his inner circle as pompous or arrogant. If he was more likeable, then it would be a different story. Now, that being said, I would expect that frankly from other people. I am pompous and arrogant sometimes, and if someone told me they didn't care for me, it would be no surprise for me. I mean, it is what it is. Bonds has had his whole career to shape himself for this moment, but he is what he is. A helluva baseball player -- arguably one the best ever -- with a long and illustrious career, who is a prick most of the time.

Let's all enjoy the record breaking moment, and let history be the final judge of Bonds.

Great game last night. It has been many years since I could honestly believe the Cubs would hang on and win a 1-run game, or come back and win one when we were down one run.

Theriot is a grinder. Love that kid. He is a natural-born go-getter.

Let's go Cubs...keep the foot on the throat of the Brewers.

Florida Cubbie

by Cribbs463 on Jul 25, 2007 9:08 AM CDT reply actions  

I am not gonna lie...
Seeing 34 out on the mound again might just give me the warm fuzzies...

by HIGGY on Jul 25, 2007 9:13 AM CDT reply actions  

I hope he makes it
Wood seems genuine in his desire and apologizies for being hurt. He's hanging in there and could have easily given up wihat he's been through since '03. Nothing better than seeing a 98 MPH fastball in our pen. Ya think he'll get a standing "O" if he comes in at home?? I just hope he does it for his sake.
This is Harry Carray, goodbye from Wrigley Field and So Long Everybody.

by mrcubsfan on Jul 25, 2007 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Without question
Given that people gave Jason Kendall a standing ovation, it seems that every new addition will get one.  

That said, in Wood's case it's deserved.

by Porfi on Jul 25, 2007 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

And likely
the only standing-o Kendall will get this year. Make Koyie Hill the starter!
Tinker to Evers to Chance.

by Matt Allison on Jul 25, 2007 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Regarding head protection
If you consider how infrequently a death or serious injury to a base coach occurs from a batted ball, it is easy to see why a coach thinks it will never happen to them.  Out of how many games, how many innings, how many at-bats we have had one (albeit tragic) death.  It's like the odds of getting struck by lightning while using a Garden Claw in sandy soil.  They wouldn't pull the Garden Claw off the market.  

Likewise, Len and Bob were talking last night about the need for fans to be alert.  I would hate for MLB to erect screens blocking the first few rows just to prevent an extremely, extremely rare injury.  

However, all of baseball follows the major leagues.  If, voluntarily, major league coaches adopted additional protection, so would minor league coaches, so would college coaches, and on down to Little League.  It wouldn't be a boondoggle for some helmet company.  You can get the liner for 10 bucks or just wear a batting helmet.  We require Little Leaguers to wear a helmet when out of the dugout, except on defense.  (Nobody can be on-deck without a helmet.)  That's for their protection.  Base coaches voluntarily wearing head protection would reinforce that.

On a related note, there have been several deaths of children from being struck by a batted ball in the middle of the chest.  There is a small plastic protector you can get for your child.  Almost no one does.  It's hard enough getting a 10-year-old catcher to wear a cup.  

The call of the Cub fan, c. 1893: "one long, ravaged, derisive yell...a cyclonic whoop!"

by cubzfan on Jul 25, 2007 9:14 AM CDT reply actions  

Good post...
...I agree about erratic fans failing to pay attention to the game...that's when someone gets hurt.  

On a side note, about chest protection: My first high school game, coach decided I'd make a better third baseman than second, failing to tell me prior to lineups.  I start at third and the leadoff guy shoots a liner at me so hard I don't have time to react; hits me straight in the chest with a loud "thwarp", I fall on my back, struggling to breathe, while my shortstop bare hands the ball and fires the guy out.  Coach comes out, rips open my jersey, and there's already a softball-sized purple welt forming.  I was hooked.  Third base the rest of my career.  Couldn't catch my breathe for a few innings, though.

Dan

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Jul 25, 2007 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Baseball Prospectus's Will Carroll...
...advocates the use of these nifty little Ribcaps as a potential alternative to helmets for on-field personell. It's something to consider at least.
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Jul 25, 2007 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

The Coolbaugh incident
I read that the line drive struck Coolbaugh in the neck.  While I am an advocate for helmets for coaches, it's worth pointing out that no helmet would of been able to protect him.  It truly was a freak accident.
Tinker to Evers to Chance!

by sanantonecub on Jul 25, 2007 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

Knee Jerk Reactions to Freak Accidents
Agreed.  He was hit in the neck, not the head.  Are we going to overreact and require coaches to wear neck braces?  Please.  Use your voice to advocate for real safety issues like getting rid of aluminum bats.

If coaches want to wear batting helmets, by all means.  Let's not admonish those that do not.

by Nate @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 25, 2007 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

A few notes...
(1) Is Zambrano the hottest pitcher in baseball?  Probably.  I feel as if every year we overreact and fret when he starts sluggish.  

(2) Why not make all base coaches wear batting helmets?  I know, it is a slippery slope and sooner or later someone is going to request players wear them, too, but these coaches are 40, 50, 60 year old men that do not have half the reaction time the players do.  Just a thought.  

(3) I am sick of Selig announcing his decision each Bonds game.  Go to the goddamned game or do not.  Stop talking about it, stop bitching about it.  You're the commissioner and it is your job to represent the league.  Stop doing a horseshit job of it.

Dan

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Jul 25, 2007 9:14 AM CDT reply actions  

But he's Bud Selig
He HAS to do a horse shit job........why change now?

by Ihatethecards on Jul 25, 2007 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

LOL
n/t
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Jul 25, 2007 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

With Selig
it's his pathetic need to have the moral high ground, IMHO. First he's not going to go to the games at all, he's going to snub Barry and make a show of his position on steroids. However, when sports writers (most notably ESPN.com's Jeff Pearlman) start calling him on his bullcrap, noting that he presided over the most egregious years of steroid abuse in the league, Bud finds a new way to grant himself moral superiority: he's going to be the bigger man. Barry's going to boycott ESPN, Hank's not going to show up, so Bud the Magnanimous will make a show of his attendance. It's a pathetically transparent attempt at absolving himself of guilt in the steroid mess.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 25, 2007 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree
regarding Selig. What do you expect when you have an owner as commissioner? Much of this steroid crap happened on his watch, so he needs to accept some of the blame, which I have never heard him do. I think he doesn't want to be present when Bonds breaks the record largely because he hates his guts, and hates what he and others like him have done to the game and to Selig's own reputation. Hell, who doesn't hate Bonds? However, he is the commissioner and in my opinion there never should have been any question that he would be present for such a significant event.

by qccub on Jul 25, 2007 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

Selig's earlier comments yesterday
on "innocent until proven guilty" were even worse.  I just can't stand him.  I cringe when I see that face on TV.  I'll give him the wild card as that was a good change.  Other than that, he has been awful.  He's taken my favorite sport and made bad decision after bad decision.  

How ironic that the same day he made his moronic comments, the inventor of the Clear said that the Enlarged Head and Sheffield took steroids.      

by rlpete on Jul 25, 2007 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

LINE OF THE NIGHT
Lilly vs Eckstein

25 at bats = 4 hits .160 / .222 / .160 / .382

1-RUN GAMES = 14-16 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 27-24 | updated on 7/24

by SackMan on Jul 25, 2007 9:18 AM CDT reply actions  

Line of the night...
SackMan vs. Girlfriend

2 ABs = 2 HRs .1000/.1000/.1000/.1000

(above stats assume same success rate from last night)

by HIGGY on Jul 25, 2007 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

LOL
It was actually 3 ABs last night... and one more this morning:)
1-RUN GAMES = 14-16 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 27-24 | updated on 7/24

by SackMan on Jul 25, 2007 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

LMAO
n/t
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 25, 2007 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not scheduled to make another start
till Friday night... I'll be well rested:)
1-RUN GAMES = 14-16 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 27-24 | updated on 7/24

by SackMan on Jul 25, 2007 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

Good idea.
Rest today and tomorrow - because the way you are hitting the game might go into extras...

by HIGGY on Jul 25, 2007 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's the kind of
hard-nosed, never say die, grinderball attitude we like to see.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 25, 2007 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

LMAO!!
Take one for the team Sack-man!
It is July, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Jul 25, 2007 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not to be picky...
Not to be picky, but two home runs in two at bats about technically be: 1.000/1.000/4.000/5.000.

For something this serious, we need to be precise :)

by MarchHare on Jul 25, 2007 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

She WAS awake
during all the AB's, right?

JUST KIDDING!!!!!!!

"When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches."- Ron Santo

by BigJohnAZ on Jul 25, 2007 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

I know chicks dig the long ball...
...but there is absolutely nothing wrong with a softly hit line drive to center every once in a while, folks.
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Jul 25, 2007 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Personally...
I usually try to work a deep count and ultimately draw a walk.

by WittyUserName on Jul 25, 2007 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

re: Personally...
I sometimes draw the walk, too. But I'm married, so I usually fall asleep jogging to first base.
Brew Crew: We are coming for you. (And we mean it this time.)

by daver on Jul 25, 2007 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

You gotta be careful, though
after you take the walk that you don't get caught stealing second.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 25, 2007 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

I like be patient and work the count
Then once I'm on base, she gives me the green light to steal second. From there, I know a good swing will send me home:)
1-RUN GAMES = 14-16 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 27-24 | updated on 7/24

by SackMan on Jul 25, 2007 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

LOL
Damn!
"Mine, mine, says the squirrel to the transformer, unclear on the capacities of electricity." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Jul 25, 2007 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Too true.
There could be a pitch-out and then you'd be caught in a rundown.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 25, 2007 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nearly peed my pants laughing at this thread
1-RUN GAMES = 14-16 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 27-24 | updated on 7/24

by SackMan on Jul 25, 2007 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

You might want to go see the trainer...
just to make sure everything checks out...

by HIGGY on Jul 25, 2007 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Probably
just some muscle tightness. Might just need to throw a side session.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 25, 2007 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Simulated game?
Or a side session?  Either way he is gonna need the trainer and coaching staff on hand to make sure everything is working properly and feeling good.

by HIGGY on Jul 25, 2007 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Towel drill?
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 25, 2007 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

LMAO
Incidentally, are there any advanced metrics available to measure this sort of thing?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 25, 2007 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sure
VORP-Value Over Replacement...ahem, well it works for either gender, so you get the drift I hope...
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 25, 2007 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

You friggin guys are killin me!
BTW... she actually watched the 9th with me last night after dinner! (note: the beauty came to my place and cooked salmon, crab cakes, and made a spinach tomato salad... we washed that down with a bottle of Sauvignon).  

Planning to take her to her first Cubs game. So far, she seems more excited about the prospect of cotton candy, than the actual game.

1-RUN GAMES = 14-16 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 27-24 | updated on 7/24

by SackMan on Jul 25, 2007 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

WoW...
No wonder your ABs were so high!

by HIGGY on Jul 25, 2007 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

No batting helmet either...
1-RUN GAMES = 14-16 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 27-24 | updated on 7/24

by SackMan on Jul 25, 2007 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

I see..
trying to Franchise the team huh?

by HIGGY on Jul 25, 2007 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh
so there's a PTBNL involved!
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 25, 2007 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Possibly... but no cash considerations;)
1-RUN GAMES = 14-16 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 27-24 | updated on 7/24

by SackMan on Jul 25, 2007 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

If all else fails
you may wish to invest in a JUGS machine.  

by eamuscatuli1881 on Jul 25, 2007 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe I'll try
"loading up the ball."
1-RUN GAMES = 14-16 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 27-24 | updated on 7/24

by SackMan on Jul 25, 2007 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

lots of ginseng
1-RUN GAMES = 14-16 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 27-24 | updated on 7/24

by SackMan on Jul 25, 2007 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Whatever you do...
don't cork the bat.  

by eamuscatuli1881 on Jul 25, 2007 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

What about batting donuts?
1-RUN GAMES = 14-16 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 27-24 | updated on 7/24

by SackMan on Jul 25, 2007 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just don't get the pine tar
too far up the bat handle
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 25, 2007 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

All in all... she likes the good wood
1-RUN GAMES = 14-16 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 27-24 | updated on 7/24

by SackMan on Jul 25, 2007 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

And
is she a fan of Moises Alou???

by eamuscatuli1881 on Jul 25, 2007 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

All the way... it;s fantastic
1-RUN GAMES = 14-16 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 27-24 | updated on 7/24

by SackMan on Jul 25, 2007 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just so long
as she doesn't use Alou's batting gloves...
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 25, 2007 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Great minds
think alike!

by eamuscatuli1881 on Jul 25, 2007 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

I go against Dusty's advice....
...I try to clog the bases as often as possible.

by Chadnudj on Jul 25, 2007 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe you'll get lucky on Friday night
and she'll consider Mr. Cub's mantra - "Let's Play Two Today!"
"When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches."- Ron Santo

by BigJohnAZ on Jul 25, 2007 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Another bat
I know the Cubs are winning.  Most of those wins though have been against the bottom of the NL.  They did struggle lately against a better team in Arizona.  

I think the Cubs can hang on with their rotation.  Hill, Marshall and Marquis may not be a guaranteed strong start every outing but no team has a strong 1 through 5.  What they need is another bat.  I thought that if Floyd stayed relatively healthy that he would hit.  I'm a little troubled that he isn't hitting.

I'm starting to come around to the idea of Jermaine Dye.  If he's cheap, he might be worth a shot.  I don't want Conine and I think Griffey will be too expensive.  Dye though may be a worth a gamble if the price is right.          

by rlpete on Jul 25, 2007 9:24 AM CDT reply actions  

What would you give up for Dye?
It can't be much, because he's a rent-a-player. There's no way he'll be back nor do I really want him back.

So what's worth a two-month rental of a guy who might not be very good?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 25, 2007 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

KW's going to want
a middle infielder and a young arm to replace Contreras, because Gavin Floyd is horrid. For a rental player, that seems like a high price...
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 25, 2007 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Compare Griffey and Dye...
If you can get Ken Griffey for somewhat close to the same asking price as Jermaine Dye, would I be the only one who'd take Griffey? Even if he does go down, we've proven that we can win with the right fielders that we've played so far this year. If he doesn't go down, he makes the Cubs one of the most dangerous lineups in the league. I'd be willing to give up a little more for KG than for Dye but just because the quality of player and  (correct me if I'm wrong) leader that Griffey could be for this team. Griffey seems to me like a good player to have during a stretch run, even if the injury bug is constantly following him.

by gacubbie20 on Jul 25, 2007 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed
If it was between Dye and Griff and the asking price was the same, I'd much rather have Griff. Much better overall body of work and he's having a nice year, to boot.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 25, 2007 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Gavin Floyd
is a good example though that prospects are just that, prospects and not sure things.  He was supposed to be a great up-and-coming pitcher with the Phillies.  He's likely headed nowhere now.

If a team has a playoff shot and needs a fill-in player, trading a prospect isn't the worst thing.  You may not trade your best prospects but trading mid-level guys is fine by me.          

by rlpete on Jul 25, 2007 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

True.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 25, 2007 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe a mid-level prospect
Maybe Veal as bad as he's been this year.  I'm not really sure what the price is for a 2 month rent-a-player.  

I know it's a gamble but while the Cubs might make the playoffs with the current roster, I don't think they can win it.  That's what I want.  Look at St. Louis last season, they picked up Belliard last season late and he came up big in the playoffs.  That filled a gap they had.  Weaver helped them too as a late FA pickup.

I'm sure Hendry is trying but it doesn't look like there are many options for RF.  

by rlpete on Jul 25, 2007 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

One thing the White Sox could use...
... is a shortstop. Uribe's horrible and they have no one in their system.

Would you trade them Cedeno for Dye?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 25, 2007 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

white sox
the white sox would do that in a heartbeat.

by jacob on Jul 25, 2007 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Kenny will ask for more.
That fanbase is already at his throat over the bullpen. If he doesn't at least attempt to shore it up by moving a marquee name like Dye, they'll be in full-on revolt.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 25, 2007 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Cedeno and...
... miscellaneous pitching prospect?

Remember, if KW doesn't trade Dye, he loses him for nothing (or for a draft pick which might pan out in four years).

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 25, 2007 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think that's
exactly what Kenny's going to ask for. Cedeno and a pitching prospect, probably Veal or Gallagher.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 25, 2007 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

High draft picks mean a lot
Look at it this way:  do you think Kenny Williams would trade a first/second round draft pick for Ronny Cedeno and some random minor league pitcher?  My guess is absolutely not.

by Porfi on Jul 25, 2007 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hell yes
I do that trade. We are going to need more firepower in the post-season. Win now!
Tinker to Evers to Chance.

by Matt Allison on Jul 25, 2007 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Win now
but not at any cost.  I would say if Dye could be had for Cedeno and even if you have to throw in a pitcher, I think Dye would be a nice pickup, but not at any cost.

by eamuscatuli1881 on Jul 25, 2007 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

starting to see
more and more empty seats......again.
"We're going to turn this team around 360 degrees." -Jason Kidd

by tony412 on Jul 25, 2007 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

W Sux fans
are historically bandwagon jumpers, not too faithful.
"When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches."- Ron Santo

by BigJohnAZ on Jul 25, 2007 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

If there weren't any better options
I probably would.  I really think the Cubs need another bat.  If Dye for Cedeno is the best in terms of cost then I'd do it.  I don't see Cedeno as a future star.  His upside might be a slighly better Alex Gonzalez.  Could he be as good as Jhonny Peralta with the bat, maybe?  It's not like you are trading away A-Rod or Jeter though.    

I think both Griffey and Nady (if available) would cost a lot more.  If Griffey didn't though, I'd make a run at him.  

by rlpete on Jul 25, 2007 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Don't we really need Cedeno now?
Now that Izzy is gone...
1-RUN GAMES = 14-16 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 27-24 | updated on 7/24

by SackMan on Jul 25, 2007 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

re: Don't we really need Cedeno now?
I had the same thought. Could Eric Patterson realistically back up Theriot at short?

If so, I'd actually feel fairly positive about a Cedeno and Veal deal for Dye, as long as Dye was only a short-term solution in right field.

Brew Crew: We are coming for you. (And we mean it this time.)

by daver on Jul 25, 2007 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

No to EPatt
He's barely adequate at 2nd.  If Theriot is the starter then Fontenot and DeRosa could be the backup.  Worst case, some scrub could be picked up from someone for nothing.  

Who would you rather have, a new RFer or a backup SS?    

by rlpete on Jul 25, 2007 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Actually... would love to see Cedeno to the Giants
for Vizquel. Vizquel still plays better defense than anyone we have... and anyone we've had for the better part of the last 20 years.
1-RUN GAMES = 14-16 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 27-24 | updated on 7/24

by SackMan on Jul 25, 2007 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

No thanks
Vizquel isn't going to add much with the bat.  I want another OF'er that can hit more than 2 HR's in nearly 2/3's of a season.  

by rlpete on Jul 25, 2007 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

The other day on the Score , someone floated
the idea that KW might be interested in am pitcher like Veal. He really seems to like the work in progress types and Cooper has had some success with guys like that, as well.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 25, 2007 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Dye will be traded to someone
and his value will be determined by how desperate 1 or 2 teams are for his services.  It only takes one team to think he is the answer, to really drive the price up, but it's impossible to know until it get's down to crunch time on the 30th and 31st.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jul 25, 2007 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

Interesting
question, since there haven't been many power-hitter trades at the deadline the past few years to base market value.

Dye has 16 home runs and a track record of success, but is batting .229 and has had some serious injury problems this year, and will be a free agent after the season. He might be heating up and getting healthy, but he is a tough one to gauge.

Maybe you could compare him to Randy Winn in 2005. The differences are that Winn was a more well-rounded player, with higher BA/OBP, better defense, could steal a base, but only had 6 SBs at the time. He also had an option for the following season. He brought back Jesse Foppert, a former top pitching prospect who was coming off Tommy John surgery, and Torrealba, a very average catcher. Not exacty a bounty of return.

The other deal you could look at would be the Lugo deal of last year. Lugo is obviously a completely different player, but was an impact offensive player like Dye. Lugo is a bigger prize, as he had no injury risk, hit over .300 and stole bases. He also hit 12 homers, close to what Dye has done this year. (There are no perfect comps). He brought back Joel Guzman from the Dodgers, their number 3 prospect at the time, but one of the top 50 prospects in baseball according to BA.

Dye doesn't have the value of Lugo, but maybe a little more value than Winn, given Dye's track record. So I'd put the expected return in between those deals. I'd like it if all it took was Cedeno, but I doubt that would work. I would imagine it would be something like Eric Patterson, but that's just a guess.

by jazzypete on Jul 25, 2007 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Guzman
The only problem with Guzman was that at the time of the trade, his star had already faded with LA.  He was once the clear choice as their organization's top prospect and his slip to No. 3 was more an indictment of their falling out of love with him than it was their elation over other guys.  He was already a fallen star.  
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. -- Lee Constantine Elia, 1983.

by krummy12 on Jul 25, 2007 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

You mean Izturis, right?
Brew Crew: We are coming for you. (And we mean it this time.)

by daver on Jul 25, 2007 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

Uhhh, no
Joel Guzman.  See above.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. -- Lee Constantine Elia, 1983.

by krummy12 on Jul 25, 2007 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

re: Uhhh, no
My bad. I was skimming and shouldn't have posted the question.
Brew Crew: We are coming for you. (And we mean it this time.)

by daver on Jul 25, 2007 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Price
I'd say Dye is worth the price of two marginal prospects, or as they are known, organizational guys.  Kind of like the guys the Cubs have acquired in the past few years when they've dealt spare parts.  Guys like Russ Rohlicek and some of those.  The minors are littered with them.  Kenny Williams wouldn't be getting much more no matter where he peddles Dye.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. -- Lee Constantine Elia, 1983.

by krummy12 on Jul 25, 2007 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

He gets
a first round pick if he keeps Dye, so he's not going to deal him for a marginal return.

by jazzypete on Jul 25, 2007 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well
Then he sits on his hands, gets nothing and hopes he's still around in five years when the draft choice finally knocks on the door.  He's hardly dealing from a position of strength with the 2007 version of Dye.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. -- Lee Constantine Elia, 1983.

by krummy12 on Jul 25, 2007 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd much rather like to see an NL player
Just seems to me, too often in the past, teams trade for a bat from a different league... and they struggle against the pitchers they haven't really faced.
1-RUN GAMES = 14-16 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 27-24 | updated on 7/24

by SackMan on Jul 25, 2007 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Murton & Cedeno
They need an LF and SS.
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!

by CubFaninCA on Jul 25, 2007 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

DeRosa
It will stink if he's out long term, but we're better than the Brewers. Keep reminding yourself of that. We've got more talent than they do. We'll be fine.
Be sure to check out The View From The Bleachers

by viewfromthebleachers on Jul 25, 2007 9:30 AM CDT reply actions  

You what tendonitis is?
When they don't know what else to call it. It's such an open-ended, arbitrary term, its ridiculous.

Every time a guy appears injured and its not something obvious, they call it tendonitis.

Guess if we hear the term MRI and the word 'tear', that would be very bad.

da-da-daddio

by blackhawk24 on Jul 25, 2007 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hamstring Tendonitis
The hamstring muscles consist of the Biceps femoris, Semitendinosus and Semimembranosus. Hamstring tendonitis is marked by inflammation, irritation, and swelling of one or more of the tendons that connect one of these muscles to the bone around the knee.

Everything else I've read online sounds like your typical hammy pull and so it's impossible to know how long he'll be out until they announce how bad the injury is.

"We're going to turn this team around 360 degrees." -Jason Kidd

by tony412 on Jul 25, 2007 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not really a hammie
The tendon is different than the muscle, and like any tendinitis is usually is overuse...

My bet is that DeRosa will be sit for a few games with a lot of ice to reduce the swelling and rest. If that does not work he is off to the DL

Milw-09-24-98--Brown in for defense--bases loaded--flyball--HE DROPPED THE BALL!!!NO NO NO, cubs lose 8-7

by Ivy Walls on Jul 25, 2007 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

In layman's terms:
his leg is sore. Rest and some ibuprofen will make it better. He'll be OK.
This is Harry Carray, goodbye from Wrigley Field and So Long Everybody.

by mrcubsfan on Jul 25, 2007 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

Time to pull out the needle
if it is true tendinitis.  A little cortisone will do wonders to calm that baby down.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jul 25, 2007 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Can't wait to see Wood
but "... that would certainly be better than any trade we could make.", I have to disagree with this quote by Hendry.

 We have a very strong bullpen, one that hasn't lost a game for us in a long time. So getting Wood is great, but its strengthening something that isn't a weakness for the team. Getting a RF bat like Griffey or Dye, however, would be a large improvement over what we currently have.

Glad to see the article hinting that the Cubs may be looking at Dye. I'd rather have Griffey, but Dye might be the best fit, particularly if the asking price isn't too high--Cedeno?

by jazzypete on Jul 25, 2007 9:36 AM CDT reply actions  

Ugly win last night
That's the type that the Cubs lost early in the year and now have found a way to win. Theriot's ability to get on in front of D Lee and Am Ram gave the Cubs the opportunity for the Cubs win last night when they didn't seem focused.

The 2 out hit with men on scoring position wasn't happening last night or the Cubs would have won by 5 with all the opportunities.

The Cubs just need to continue to capitalize and generate runs.

Here's to an easy blow out win tonight were Soriano wakes up and gets hot again. Brewer loss.

6-01-2007 the Cubs begin to rise. They will never look back.

by Scott G F on Jul 25, 2007 9:38 AM CDT reply actions  

Head Protection
I work in manufacturing and have come to really appreciate Personal Protective Equipment.  Injuries are indeed rare events but wearing proper PPE takes those rare events and makes them micro sized.  Even rare events are totally preventable.

I don't understand human nature and why people will choose not to protect themselves from bodily harm when there are clear alternatives available for self preservation?  Has our society gotten to the point where vanity supplants self preservation?  Ridiculous.  I hate (too much) legislation but I hate stupidity even more.  Unfortunately, it seems that liability precedes legislation in our country nowadays.

At least former Cub, Glenallen Hill, has decided to be a beacon for MLB coaches in light of this tragedy:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2948098&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines

Good for him and I truly hope that others will voluntarily follow his lead.  

There's always next year.

by BJ Simpson on Jul 25, 2007 9:41 AM CDT reply actions  

Chris Young hurt -
This certainly helps the Cubs as they chase the Padres.  No pitcher in baseball has been more dominant than Young -- except his teammate Peavey.

As the Cubs hunt for a playoff spot, it certainly helps that Carpenter, Sheets, and now, perhaps, Young are all out of their teams' rotations.

Apparently he has a "strained oblique" -- Can anyone offer any insight as to how long an injury like this might keep Young out?

Should the Cubs make the playoffs, let's hope they don't have to face the Padres b/c they scare me more than any other NL team .

Give Z whatever he Please...NOW!

by southerncubbie on Jul 25, 2007 9:47 AM CDT reply actions  

Sean Marshall...
... had a similar injury last year. He missed about six weeks.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 25, 2007 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

Isn't that what Dempster had?
He was out for several weeks.  I'm torn over the news.  For the Cubs that's good but he was having such a good year with a sub-2.00 ERA that I enjoyed watching him pitch when I saw him on EI.  

by rlpete on Jul 25, 2007 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

IIRC
That is the same injury that took out Dempster for several weeks.  However, when he was hurt there was a lot of talk that it is very dependent on the pitcher's approach to rehabbing and if he starts throwing again too soon (as Demp did) it will re-aggrevate the injury.
Out of clutter, find simplicity. From discord, find harmony. In the middle of difficulty, lies opportunity - Einstein

by cubbieblue86 on Jul 25, 2007 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Karmic payback
for the shenanigans they pulled with his suspension.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 25, 2007 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Indeed.
n/t
"Mine, mine, says the squirrel to the transformer, unclear on the capacities of electricity." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Jul 25, 2007 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Dempster
Didn't Demp have the same injury?  If so, that would be a good comparable for you...

Stupid Yovani Gallardo ruining the Sheets injury for us...

Aramis Ramirez = Captain Comeback!

by 26.2cubfan on Jul 25, 2007 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Strained Oblique
While I was on WebMD searching on DeRosa's hammy tendonitis I looked this up too:

The two external abdominal oblique muscles lie on the sides and front of the abdomen and are the largest of the muscles in this area. These flat muscles are attached to the ribs and the pelvis in such a way that both muscles, acting together, bend the spine forward. One side acting alone can bend the vertebral column sideways and rotate it, bringing the shoulder of that side forward.

DIAGNOSIS
A muscle pull, or strain, happens when a muscle is stretched more than normal, tearing some of the muscle fibers or partially detaching the tendon from the bone. Pain often starts when the muscle area is worked thereafter. A trainer can tell by asking the athlete certain questions.

"We're going to turn this team around 360 degrees." -Jason Kidd

by tony412 on Jul 25, 2007 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Peavy....
has lost his last 4 decisions. Any connection to Barrett? Hard to tell, as I believe MB has only caught half of those games.

The Padres are slumping badly, even the bullpen has let them down (especially middle relief, and especially Linebrink -- the guy's first bad stretech in 3 seasons) and if you can believe this -- Adrian Gonzalez is getting death threats:

SD Union-Tribune:

His father, David Gonzalez, was majority owner of the Tijuana Potros professional baseball team and recently had a falling out with other partners, dissolving the partnership and selling the club, the police report said.

He's been getting the threats in Spanish and English.

This is all very tough stuff for a club that is fragile, at best and needs to be healthy and focused to compete...
 

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jul 25, 2007 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm more concerned w/ ATL
SD will fade...
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!

by CubFaninCA on Jul 25, 2007 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

ATL
much of the Braves fortune will revolve around Smoltz. They are much weaker if he gets hurt again..
Well, sometimes nothin is a real cool hand.

by wicubfan on Jul 25, 2007 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

as pumped as i am
i cant help but want woody to take it reaaal slow and maybe take a couple more weeks on the farm.  i guess its just the cubs fan in me but it makes me nervous

by holycow07 on Jul 25, 2007 9:54 AM CDT reply actions  

Re: Griffey vs. Dye
I'd rther have Griffey, but I am afraid he is going to be expensive. As far as injury prone, I don't think that's arguable, we all know he is. However, isn't he doing a lot better having moved to RF for the Reds? Granted, I don't follow him much, but it seems to have rejuvenated him. Besides, he still has a cannon for an arm.

Either one I would be happy with, but Griffey instills the fear in pitchers more so than Dye.

Florida Cubbie

"Oh, I get a little tired now and then, but knowing my lifestyle, that's only natural." -- Harry Caray

by Cribbs463 on Jul 25, 2007 9:54 AM CDT reply actions  

This is a very good point.
I've been leery of Griffey because of his age and injury history, but admit he's having a good year.

The Reds are going to want major league pitching in exchange. That's too high a price.

The White Sox will probably take a prospect or, maybe, Ronny Cedeno. Would you do Cedeno for Dye?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 25, 2007 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

I like Eric..
Patterson for Dye better. Good value both ways, and it doesn't affect the major league roster. And Eric could possibly do them some good in center or 2nd.

by Damen Jackson on Jul 25, 2007 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Everyone seems to be overpaying
The question is not what Griffey is worth straight up it is what he is worth to the organization ridding themselves of this failed strategy. Griffey is a albatross around the neck and regardless what they get in return they can use the money for someone else.

The Reds could deal Dunn, get more and free up a spot and deal Griffey, get something and free up money and another spot while changing the identity of the team.

Griffey probably could be had for a handful of promises taking the contract; let us see Patterson looks great on paper, Murton and possibly Dopirak and Daytona A-player of something.

Murton could go right in and play LF for Dunn who is also traded.

Milw-09-24-98--Brown in for defense--bases loaded--flyball--HE DROPPED THE BALL!!!NO NO NO, cubs lose 8-7

by Ivy Walls on Jul 25, 2007 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

How much...
Would more would you be willing to give up to get a great bat and a slick glove in Griffey instead of Dye?

by gacubbie20 on Jul 25, 2007 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

yeah
cedeno for dye

by holycow07 on Jul 25, 2007 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

OK...
... I posted a diary over at South Side Sox asking them what they'd want for Dye. I'll be interested in their responses.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 25, 2007 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Who is
going to read it out loud for them?

by jazzypete on Jul 25, 2007 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

That, my friend....
Is comedic genius. Well done! Laughing out loud here...
"Oh, I get a little tired now and then, but knowing my lifestyle, that's only natural." -- Harry Caray

by Cribbs463 on Jul 25, 2007 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Cedeno for Dye
I'd do it in a heartbeat. Dye is better than he's been playing. The Cub lineup is rather weak after you get past Lee and Ramirez, especially if DeRosa is to miss significant time.

And when is Soriano going to start hitting again? He was plain awful last night - it looks like he's extending the strike zone quite a bit. Hasn't had a homer or RBI in I don't know how long. This would be the perfect time for him to get hot.

"Hello again, everybody. Harry Caray from Wrigley Field on a beautiful day for baseball."

by danimal15 on Jul 25, 2007 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

I hope Al
typed really, really slow so they could read it! Good comedy this morning!
This is Harry Carray, goodbye from Wrigley Field and So Long Everybody.

by mrcubsfan on Jul 25, 2007 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

awww man
I've got tears running down my face.
"We're going to turn this team around 360 degrees." -Jason Kidd

by tony412 on Jul 25, 2007 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Deal or no deal?
I've heard Ozzie Guillen and his son talk about Cedeno.  So, I know they both really like Cedeno.  I would not be surprised if they encouraged KW to trade for Cedeno.  Further on that too is that the Sox have grown tired of Uribe (as have may Sox fans).

I don't have a problem trading with the Cubbies, even if it helps them in their quest for a playoff berth this season, so long as it benefits the Sox.    "We've got ours," so to speak, so at this point I don't care if it helps the Cubbies.

And finally some of the comments here give evidence that the vendors selling the hateful shirts outside Wrigley know their market well.

http://tinyurl.com/ywm9k6

by DrCrawdad on Jul 25, 2007 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

It sounds
like both sides would be happy with that deal then.

I don't see a lot of people wearing anti-Sox or anti-Cards stuff at Wrigley. It's there, just not much of it. There is a tremendous amount of anti-Cubs stuff on the South Side. There was a time in the year after the cork incident where you'd see more anti-Cubs/Sosa stuff at the cell than pro-cubs or pro-Sox stuff combined. The last group from whom I would take criticism about being a classy fan is White Sox fans (or Eagles fans).

And the stuff above was good-natured ribbing. You really seem very insecure about the Whites Sox/Cubs, you only seem to pop up when there is an opportunity to gloat or denigrate the Cubs.

by jazzypete on Jul 25, 2007 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree....
there was a small proportion last year for which I was dismayed, since I hate to see our fans turning into WS fans.  The WS organization has pretty much gotten behind the Cub bashing - remember the billboards that "those up north don't get it".  By doing so they only make themselves looks trashy.

by coral on Jul 25, 2007 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ribbing quickly can become...
...hurtful insults.

I have never worn any anti-Cubbie stuff.  Never will.  

"By doing so they only make themselves looks trashy."

And that shirt I snapped a photo of is beyond trashy.  It's easily equally as bad as some of the stuff I've seen outside the Cell in the past (although this year I did not notice much) and probably worse.  

by DrCrawdad on Jul 25, 2007 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Perspective...
"I don't see a lot of people wearing anti-Sox or anti-Cards stuff at Wrigley. It's there, just not much of it."

It's really one's perspective.  If it's your favorite team that is the target of the barbs then you notice it.  If not, then you can easily gloss over it.

"The last group from whom I would take criticism about being a classy fan is White Sox fans (or Eagles fans)...And the stuff above was good-natured ribbing."

The photo I linked to was not "good-natured ribbing" but probably racist.  The "ribbing" here was in that same vein and those who posted those barbs are the very ones that the street shirt sellers are marketing their product for.

by DrCrawdad on Jul 25, 2007 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

I was
referring to the good-natured ribbing on this site, not in your picture. Nothing in the comments in this diary was racist, or in "the same vain" as the racist pictures you describe.

by jazzypete on Jul 25, 2007 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Can't see the picture
(it doesn't display) but if it is racist - I'd be the first person who would stand around and bitch about it until someone took it down.  

by coral on Jul 25, 2007 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

My all-time favorite T-shirt
is the classic "We Got Wood".  That was spectacular.  Haven't seen them around since his arm went to hell, but that was a great shirt.

by eamuscatuli1881 on Jul 25, 2007 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

I looooorvvve beating the Fredbirds
Nothing gave me more pleasure than to see Fat Boy Pujols go 0-5, including choking like someone talking back to Darth Vader at the end.

Maybe he'll say it was a pulled love handle, or he'll blather on about how "lucky" Dempster was.

by lancaster99 on Jul 25, 2007 9:57 AM CDT reply actions  

Dye for 2 mos.
Go for it he's still a good fielder also and Floyd can spot him occasionally.

I would not be horrified if Pagan got more PT however I think he does a lot for the team and will produce about 10 HR if he starts 5 games a week instead of 1-2.

This is the Cubs' No. 1 need not pitching or another catcher; Kendall is gonna get untracked, eventually, and that's gonna help the "O.''

My first choice for a RF remains Griffey but that locks you in there for at least another year (he has contract option for 2009?) and means the end of Jones in 2008, for sure, to make room for Pie.

Jones has been clutch lately hope it continues.

by writerinwrigley on Jul 25, 2007 10:01 AM CDT reply actions  

Agreed.
I definitely think they need another power bat in the outfield.  I, like you, would prefer Griffey, than probably Nady, but Dye would be nice too.  

by eamuscatuli1881 on Jul 25, 2007 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

And if it's post-season
it's more like 3 months :).
Tinker to Evers to Chance.

by Matt Allison on Jul 25, 2007 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

So in this morning's Trib...
...Paul Sullivan has this to say: "Keeping Cliff Floyd healthy has been more difficult than anyone imagined, and it's a concern that may force the Cubs to acquire another outfielder before the July 31 trading deadline."

Really? Keeping Floyd healthy has been difficult? Really? You couldn't have imagined that? You couldn't, I don't know, have looked at the past few years and seen his injury history? Really. Really.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Jul 25, 2007 10:02 AM CDT reply actions  

You know Floyd could be dealt as well
Ward returns and the Cubs could deal Floyd in a seperate deal, a DH to the AL for a consideration while they get a full time RF'er
Milw-09-24-98--Brown in for defense--bases loaded--flyball--HE DROPPED THE BALL!!!NO NO NO, cubs lose 8-7

by Ivy Walls on Jul 25, 2007 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Looking at your signature...
...everyone remembers Brant Brown dropping that ball in that game.

Almost NO one remembers the game he won in walk-off fashion vs. the Braves from earlier that year (I think, if I recall correctly, in Kerry Wood's 1st start at Wrigley after the 20K game, where he faced off against Glavine....I was there)

It just seems to me that Cub fans remembering the drop should at least remember the walk-off HR...

by Chadnudj on Jul 25, 2007 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

How true...
...but in the middle of May no one is thinking that one game may give/cost them the division or wild card. When was the drop, early September?

Part of the rememberance was Ronnie yelling, "Oh Nooooo!"

Honestly, if you don't reference the walk-off I would likely have never remembered.

da-da-daddio

by blackhawk24 on Jul 25, 2007 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Certainly
I would hav eno problem letting Cedeno go for Dye. Cedeno is a great young talent, no doubt. He came up and played his heart out, and had some great games, and some not-so-great games. I kind of felt like for a while last year, he assumed the job was his and attacked it with that same fervor. When he was sent down, he started working again, and has now gotten the call back up. He is big league material, but he doesn't seem to really grind it. I want a grinder, a gamer, a hard-nosed, blue-collar, get the uniform dirty from head to toe by the third-inning old-school pounder. Theriot has worked hard. He hustles, he will do whatever he can to put the team in a position to win -- including take the shortstop starting position.

I would part with Cedeno and keep Theriot coming along. I think the Theriot/Fontenot combination has merit, and we always have a promising young 2B prospect at Iowa in Patterson.

So, ultimately, yeah, I'll cut Cedeno loose and keep a grinder like Theriot any day. Nothing personal against Cedeno, I just feel like he is missing that one thing that really makes a ballplayer a "player".

Florida Cubbie

"Oh, I get a little tired now and then, but knowing my lifestyle, that's only natural." -- Harry Caray

by Cribbs463 on Jul 25, 2007 10:04 AM CDT reply actions  

i agree
very nicely written piece.  maybe cedeno will surprise us, but i'm willing to take the chance that he doesn't -- and clearly he is good trade bait as a "hot prospect"....

by zevkalman on Jul 25, 2007 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

Cedano missing "the hunger"
Ronnie looks, to me, that his isn't hungry to play ball.

Comparing Theroit and Cedano. Theroit looks like he'd crawl over glass for a base hit or just to get on base, Cedano looks scared, like he doesn't belong. Cedano has a look of not wanting to fail and in doing so fails every time. Theroit takes his chances, like getting caught stealing last night, he tried again later in the game, stole the base and that was the difference in the game.

Cedano did come through with a nice hit last night in a pressure situation (bases loaded and 2 outs I believe). I would be very happy to be wrong.

Maybe he just needs more time.  

6-01-2007 the Cubs begin to rise. They will never look back.

by Scott G F on Jul 25, 2007 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's not fair to Cedeno
He hasn't shown anything that implies he isn't hungry and trying.  In fact going back to AAA and hitting like he did shows that he is trying.  Saying he isn't trying is similar to what a lot of people said about Jacque Jones too.  Cedeno might make bad decisions sometimes but he hasn't shown a lack of interest or hunger.      

by rlpete on Jul 25, 2007 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

True...
He hasn't shown that he isn't trying, but by the same token, he hasn't exactly shown that he is willing to do whatever it takes. I don't care if you hit .750 in AAA with 65 jacks, if you get up to the ball club and hit a buck-fifty and walk 3 times in 4,000 AB's and can't catch a cold soaking wet, buck-naked in Alaska, then you are going to be sent down. Cedeno had an attitude -- shown and visible -- that he deserved to be there (and did) and that the job was his by default (it wasn't).

Competition is the reason why Theriot is there and Izturis is gone. I dop wish the best for Cedeno, I have no doubt he will put it together one of these days. I really believe it is a confidence thing with him -- it's all in his head. He'll be just fine.

Florida Cubbie

"Oh, I get a little tired now and then, but knowing my lifestyle, that's only natural." -- Harry Caray

by Cribbs463 on Jul 25, 2007 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Glad to see that trader Jim.....
...realizes that sometimes the best trade is the one you don't make. Izturis is a good example. That trade cost us 2 months of the Maddog in 2006 (It would have been nice to give teh Maddog a better sendoff than he was gven last year) and saddled the Cubs with 4.5 million in salary this year for a benchwarmer. I'm glad Hendry is getting the picture that giving the Theriot and Fontenot types a chance is in many cases a better option than someone else's castoffs.

There is a lot of chatter here and elsewhere about the need to make a trade for bullpen help. Let's see if Wood is going to be able to contribute this year. Let's see if Petrick and Gallagher can get major league hitters out with consistency. Let's not trade for someone else's garbage just so Hendry can say he is doing something.

by perseman on Jul 25, 2007 10:10 AM CDT reply actions  

Loud, sustained applause!
n/t
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 25, 2007 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

I hear ya
I love Cedeno, he's a good kid. He works hard, and I know he wants to be there -- hell, who doesn't. I just feel like Theriot wants it more. He's hungry, and you can see it in his little beady Cajun eyes. I  want hungry players all day long. Cedeno is excellent trade bait, as many people in the biz feel he could be a future gold-glover. I don't count myself in that group, but he can certainly be good.

Florida Cubbie

"Oh, I get a little tired now and then, but knowing my lifestyle, that's only natural." -- Harry Caray

by Cribbs463 on Jul 25, 2007 10:15 AM CDT reply actions  

very interesting wording
Are you looking over my shoulder?
6-01-2007 the Cubs begin to rise. They will never look back.

by Scott G F on Jul 25, 2007 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

I noticed that myself!
Spooky! That is the word I was looking for..."hunger".

I'm two cubicles behind you, now get back to work! :)

Great minds think alike, I reckon.

FC

"Oh, I get a little tired now and then, but knowing my lifestyle, that's only natural." -- Harry Caray

by Cribbs463 on Jul 25, 2007 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Since I am in Florida
and in a cubicle. This is getting kind of scary.

(Takes tin-foil hat out to wear for the rest of the day)

6-01-2007 the Cubs begin to rise. They will never look back.

by Scott G F on Jul 25, 2007 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

No Worries
Scott, I don't work in a cubicle, and I am in the sticks man. WAY OUT in the swamps. Good to see ya fellow Flo-Rid-ian! I was tempted to run with it and see how freaked out I could get ya!

Florida Cubbie

"Oh, I get a little tired now and then, but knowing my lifestyle, that's only natural." -- Harry Caray

by Cribbs463 on Jul 25, 2007 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

RE: Right Field
Before trading anyone else for a Dye rental, or taking on griffey's salary, maybe the Cubs could bring Murton back up for a week or two and see if he's going to hit.  At AAA:.326/.397/.551, 5 HR, 21 RBI.

I know it's AAA, but he's hitting, and he hit really well in the second half last season.

Hell...is Jake Fox really on the team?

by Dusty Baylor on Jul 25, 2007 10:26 AM CDT reply actions  

At least for this year
we cannot re-do the Murton experiment. This man doesn't have the pop we are looking for and is below average with his defense in the RF.

by cubsnlinux on Jul 25, 2007 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree
Murton could provide the needed pop. I just hope DeRosa can come back quick, as with him on the team, I don't think we need Griffey or Dye.

by SouthsideCub on Jul 25, 2007 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

What?
How can you agree with me and still say that Murton has the required pop?

by cubsnlinux on Jul 25, 2007 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe he agreed with the person...
...he replied to, and not you.
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Jul 25, 2007 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

The Cubs need power
Fontenot and Theriot do the same thing as Murton, and they're infielders..
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!

by CubFaninCA on Jul 25, 2007 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

What about Sosa?
Bring back the Gladiator!!!!!!
6-01-2007 the Cubs begin to rise. They will never look back.

by Scott G F on Jul 25, 2007 10:30 AM CDT reply actions  

No can do.
Clubhouse is fresh out of Flintstone vitamins and cork.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 25, 2007 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

In addition
His boom box is still broken.
"Hello again, everybody. Harry Caray from Wrigley Field on a beautiful day for baseball."

by danimal15 on Jul 25, 2007 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wood and Murton?
If Wood can come back healthy and effective I wouldn't mind seeing him in the set up role and moving Marmol to closer. May be something more likely for 08 than this year. Dempster is "effective" but I just feel like everytime Dempster comes into the game with less than a 2-run lead I get nervous.

As for the other outfielder I like Pagan and Murton a lot -- they're good hitters but not much power. I wouldn't be heart broken to see Murton packaged for a guy like Dye to come in at the deadline.

by Willgly on Jul 25, 2007 10:45 AM CDT reply actions  

How's Murton's fielding in RF?
Anyone who's seen him play RF is he getting better?? Has anyone seen him in person lately that can reliably report?
Really had trouble going back on the ball and judging balls hit over his head it seemed; not a great arm, lotta drawbacks but he'd help as a fill-in occasionally.

Is Bobby Kielty still a consideration?? Is he a RF?? Thought I saw Oakland DFA.

by writerinwrigley on Jul 25, 2007 10:45 AM CDT reply actions  

Kielty's worth a flyer...
... at one time he was a very good prospect. He could probably be had for nothing.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 25, 2007 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Iowa is the closest Murton is gonna get to Lou
I'm sure there's a restraining order.
1-RUN GAMES = 14-16 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 27-24 | updated on 7/24

by SackMan on Jul 25, 2007 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Right now ..
we don't need occasional players for our RF. Even though Floyd was signed as an everyday player, with all his injury history he is the occasional player and we have others who can man the RF sparingly.

What we need is an everyday Right Fielder with Home Run power.

by cubsnlinux on Jul 25, 2007 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wood
Looking further ahead (and I know we need to take this a step at a time) I'd much rather see Wood return to being a starter than as a one-inning guy out of the pen. Maybe due to his injuries this will never be possible. But if he can stay healthy relieving for, say, this year and the first half of next, I would love to see the Cubs try and return him to the rotation. A Zambrano, Lilly and Wood top-three would be formidible (assuming we keep El Toro, which I think the Cubs will do)
"Hello again, everybody. Harry Caray from Wrigley Field on a beautiful day for baseball."

by danimal15 on Jul 25, 2007 10:59 AM CDT reply actions  

I like this too, but....
I think at this point that's just not likely to happen. If you can get him healthy and happy in the bullpen. Leave him there and get what you can out of him.
AC 00 00 00 - BELIEVE

by mike @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Jul 25, 2007 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Best we could hope for...
Is that Woody goes the Dennis Eckersly route and flourishes as a closer.

by Willgly on Jul 25, 2007 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Baby steps...
I think your second sentence sums up the questions.  Everyone would love to see Wood return to being able to go 5-7 innings effectively as a starter, but that just may not be possible anymore after all of the setbacks.

After all, it's not even known yet if he'll be useful as an MLB reliever.  He's yet to pitch back-to-back days, and to be honest he's yet to face big league hitters at all.

As far as I'm concerned, I'd consider Wood fortunate to be able to have a long career even as a reliever at this point.  Anything above that is simply getting greedy.

by SouthernCub on Jul 25, 2007 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed
I also think that from all the articles written about him lately, that he has accepted his fate and will most likely never start again, or at least not be in a starting rotation. I think he would be happy just to be pain and injury free and contribute in any role.

I also think that if he does rejoin the team for the stretch run that it will infuse even more motivation for the Cubs to get to the playoffs. I am not saying that they have to win just for Kerry, but that he hasn't thrown in the towel and continued to work towards getting back to the show. I remember Prior's words when they sent him down, very prima donna-ish. Kerry just keeps working. I am really pulling for him, I got the chance to say hey to him the other day and shook his hand. When I wished him good luck, he was very gracious and thankful. All I am saying is that this would be a major shot in the arm for the team.

"When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches."- Ron Santo

by BigJohnAZ on Jul 25, 2007 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

With Griffey gone...
What draw would there be in Cinci right now to put butts in the seats?

I mean, think about this objectively. And, from Hendry's perspective, the only big money he is spendin' is on re-signing Z (I hope. I hope. I hope.).

Combine this with Hendry's distaste for players frequenting the DL too much (see Uncle Cliffy) after getting burned time after time - and I just do not see Jr. in a Cubs uniform.

Feel free to dream on in a perfect Cub World, but I see as much chance of Griffey signing as I see of Jason Kendall raising his average to .310, with 18 HR's, and a CS% of 40% by the end of the year.

It is July, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Jul 25, 2007 11:04 AM CDT reply actions  

As I posted over the weekend...
I have tickets for tonight's game.  It will be my first Cubs game I have been in attendance for and my first trip to the new Busch.  My brother, who is a die-hard Redbird fanatic, is treating me to this game, so that would make a Cub win just that much sweeter.  

by southernilcubfan on Jul 25, 2007 11:05 AM CDT reply actions  

And are you wearing
Cubbie Blue tonight?
It is July, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Jul 25, 2007 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Actually...
My new Cubs shirt is red, but has the Cubs logo on the front and "Let's Go Cubs" in big blue letters on the back.  I planned on wearing that and my blue Cubs cap.  

by southernilcubfan on Jul 25, 2007 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Just a quick question
How can you wear a RED Cubs shirt in St. Louis?

As an aside, I don't even know why such shirts are made. Somebody game me a red Cubs polo, I said thanks -- and gave it away. (It was too big, anyway)

Red is not the primary color in the Cubs world.
Reds shirts with Cubs logos shouldn't exist.
Red is for the number, and for the road cap. Nothing else.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jul 25, 2007 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agree, Jazz Man.
I also don't like the array of other colors merchandise comes in, like the green or pink Cubbie caps, etc. It makes no sense. A team has their colors for a reason, and if you're a big enough fan to want to wear the gear and represent for them, you'd think you'd want to at the very least match the damn team, eh?

For what it's worth, I can't stand those "Property of" shirts either. "Property of Wrigley Field." What the hell does that mean?!

"Mine, mine, says the squirrel to the transformer, unclear on the capacities of electricity." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Jul 25, 2007 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's Going To Be an Undercover Brother
at the game.
There's always next year.

by BJ Simpson on Jul 25, 2007 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Undercover Brother
from another mother
"We're going to turn this team around 360 degrees." -Jason Kidd

by tony412 on Jul 25, 2007 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dempster's run allowed
In all fairness, that run that Dempster allowed in the 9th was unearned.  If Soriano doesn't kick that routine single the LF, we win 4-2.

by lohroffc on Jul 25, 2007 11:08 AM CDT reply actions  

And give him a break
He just came off DL.  Not only that but he was warming up since the 7th.

by GoCubbies34 on Jul 25, 2007 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

yeah...but...
It's something about the way Dempster pitches that makes me nervous: it seems the ball always has some kind of random component and I never know where it will end up.  And then his first pitch is always a ball and he ends up having to work the hitter behind.  My goodness, it's good that I have a good heart, but half the time I have to go into the next room for a minute or so to calm down...

by zevkalman on Jul 25, 2007 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

Howry
To be fair, the following is not statistically pure, but:

With Dempster on the DL, Howry pitched in 14 games, and the Cubs went 12-2 in such games.

Dempster is just OK. He gets the job done, I guess.

"These are terrible times, and I shouldn't joke about them." --Warren Zevon

by ExNorthsider on Jul 25, 2007 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

But he does get the job done
He makes us sweat a bit.  But he has been getting the job done and I thnk that is the bottom line
When in doubt punch Barret in the face

by jds2 on Jul 25, 2007 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

based on the SSS comments...
...maybe we shouldn't give up cedeno for dye.  they seem a little too happy about it.

by holycow07 on Jul 25, 2007 11:13 AM CDT reply actions  

IMPROVEMENT?
2006 CUBS record, 7/25/06:

39-60    5th place    18.0 Games out

2007 CUBS, 7/25/07:

52-46  2nd   3 gms behind

It is July, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Jul 25, 2007 11:27 AM CDT reply actions  

DeRosa..
..is doing an interview with Jim Rome right now...

Affiliate list - http://www.jimrome.com/home/apr/affiliate_list.html

Chicks dig the long ball

by Will23 on Jul 25, 2007 11:38 AM CDT reply actions  

And Derrek Lee..
..will be the guest on JRIB (espn) at 4:30 EST.  Karma!
Chicks dig the long ball

by Will23 on Jul 25, 2007 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

re: DeRosa..
Could you give us a summary of the interview? (Specifically, his injury status, of course.)
Brew Crew: We are coming for you. (And we mean it this time.)

by daver on Jul 25, 2007 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Speaking of Barrett...
...for those of you who missed it, check out this story in today's Daily Herald.

Michael's certainly having himself one hell of a season.

Brew Crew: We are coming for you. (And we mean it this time.)

by daver on Jul 25, 2007 12:44 PM CDT reply actions  

I think he loses tis one.
The fine is probably for throwing equipment on the field, which he clearly did and the suspension is because, one, he argued balls and strikes, and two, when he'd been run, he came back towards the umpire, which usually nets a two-gamer. Mike needs to shut up and serve it. Sheffield got two games for the exact same sort of actions.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 25, 2007 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

I just watched his tantrum
I'm starting to become really pleased he's no longer a Cub.

by SouthsideCub on Jul 25, 2007 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

About Cedeno
I see in here that there are quite a few people who think Cedeno won't be any good.  Remember people that this guy is the youngest hitter on our roster right now and has struggled a little bit for the chicago, but has done his job when sent down.   Everyone loves Pie and his situation is very similar.  Struggled a bit in the majors, but did his job at AAA and so on.  Yes of course Pie will mostly likely be better than Cedeno in the long run, but Cedeno is going to be pretty good too.

I agree with trading him because he has good value, but I dont think that he is just one of those cubs that we can throw away, like people wanted to do with JJ.  Hasnt he turned it around too?

by BMac on Jul 25, 2007 12:48 PM CDT reply actions  

Whatever you do!
Don't get caught in a pickle between 3d & home. Embarrassing.
PERRY!!!!

by Goat Whisperer on Jul 25, 2007 12:50 PM CDT reply actions  

One time while my wife and I were dating...
...her parents caught us in the act. You might say I was thrown out at the plate.
Brew Crew: We are coming for you. (And we mean it this time.)

by daver on Jul 25, 2007 12:53 PM CDT reply actions  

That's better than
being caught while tossing a simulated game...
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 25, 2007 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

LOL
You win.

(And, might I add, this puts an entirely new perspective on Mark Prior's towel drills.)

Brew Crew: We are coming for you. (And we mean it this time.)

by daver on Jul 25, 2007 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

But it does explain
his recurring elbow problems...
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 25, 2007 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

But Prior
is "only an employee."

Does this make him a prostitute of sorts? I suppose not, unless he's paying himself....

"Mine, mine, says the squirrel to the transformer, unclear on the capacities of electricity." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Jul 25, 2007 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

oh, he's doing something to himself alright...
Brew Crew: We are coming for you. (And we mean it this time.)

by daver on Jul 25, 2007 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

In tears laughing
1-RUN GAMES = 14-16 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 27-24 | updated on 7/24

by SackMan on Jul 25, 2007 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Man,
you guys are too much. That's funny...whew...

And I suppose the worst of it would be going on the DL and having to sit and watch a younger, leaner rookie work the count that had formerly been yours.

"Mine, mine, says the squirrel to the transformer, unclear on the capacities of electricity." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Jul 25, 2007 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

LOL
God, that's the funniest thing I've read all week.  Classic!
"Something has to give and since there aren't 8 or 9 pitchers sitting around on the trade market, I think it has to be El Suckerpuncho." - TMOX, 6/14/07

by TMOX on Jul 25, 2007 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ditto the LOL
Man... "pulling out" out all the stops today.
1-RUN GAMES = 14-16 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 27-24 | updated on 7/24

by SackMan on Jul 25, 2007 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well
your initial comment kinda let us backdoor it in...
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 25, 2007 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's even funnier
if you know what "tosser" means in British slang.
Why does everybody stand up and sing "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" when they're already there? ~Larry Anderson

by JohnM on Jul 25, 2007 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yup.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 25, 2007 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think people need to
be not as quick to judge the cubs.  Baseball is a streaky sport and its all about the ups and downs.

For instance,  JJ set his career highs last year in HR and RBI.. after struggling big time in April.

This year he started ok, but then slumped in the middle and couldnt get out of it cause we didnt play him.  Now, we give him a chance and he is doing good.  

JJ is no all-star, but he is a lot better player than people think -- the same people who wanted to just throw him in the Izz deal or send him here or there.

Give players a chance over the long run.   I do believe Soriano is in a slump right now, but I dont here anyone saying we should trade him away, cause they dont it will all average out.

by BMac on Jul 25, 2007 12:53 PM CDT reply actions  

Griffey
How much are people here willing to give up for Griffey? To me, he seems like the perfect option - left-handed power, quality fielder, veteran who wants a chance at a ring that his current club won't likely afford him, a former player for Pinella, and a guy who's age (and injury history) suggest that he would need days off that would allow other Cubs young players the chance to get some at-bats.

I'd say Veal, JJones (to offset some contract money), and Patterson gets this done...plus maybe Guzman.  I'd totally jump at that if I were the Cubs, and it would give the Reds a lot of building blocks for the future.

Under this scenario, Floyd goes more or less permanently on the DL, Moore/Fox is sent down....Griffey becomes more or less the everyday RF, getting replaced by DeRosa or Pagan as needed.  Pie is the CF whenever we play against RH pitching (he can be hidden in the lineup now that it has Griffey), Pagan takes over against LH pitchers.

Of course, the other option that I do still like is Lofton....

by Chadnudj on Jul 25, 2007 1:00 PM CDT reply actions  

But why would Cincy do this?
I'm not saying Krivsky wouldn't make this deal since he made the Lopez/Kearns deal but I wouldn't if I'm the Reds.  

You are sending them an outfielder that appears to have lost his power with a big salary for next year, a pitcher who is always hurt, a AA pitcher who has been terrible this year and a 2nd baseman who may or may not be able to play 2nd base at the major league level.  

If I'm Krivsky, I'd need to start with Pie or Marshall.  

by rlpete on Jul 25, 2007 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Prospects are just that, prospects
Some of those guys may not pan out (Veal, Patterson, Guzman). But the money impact would be greater. Think Jr has some $30M+ left on his contract and this ownership thing couldn't be any worse timed.

I'd like to see Jr at Wrigley playing for Lou; serious left-handed pop to complement D-Lee and A-Ram in the middle of the order; yikes!

da-da-daddio

by blackhawk24 on Jul 25, 2007 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

What does everyone think of Randy Winn?
I think he would be another nice fit in Chicago.

by eamuscatuli1881 on Jul 25, 2007 1:30 PM CDT reply actions  

Not much power
But... he would be a nice fit in RF. And, he's a switch hitter.
1-RUN GAMES = 14-16 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 27-24 | updated on 7/24

by SackMan on Jul 25, 2007 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Winn
sure kicked the crap out of Cubs pitching while they were in town. I think we need to add a guy with power in the outfield. There has been a lot of discussion about Griffey but I wouldn't feel good about that move. He is getting old and I would always be holding my breath waiting for the next injury to occur. Dye, who knows? He is still only 33 and this is really the only bad year he has had in his career. Is it the start of a downward spiral or just an anomoly? He may be worth the risk.

by qccub on Jul 25, 2007 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Winn
Got him on my fantasy team. He's been solid, but that's fantasy. From what I've seen, he's a decent player. I don't think I'd give up a whole lot though..
Well, sometimes nothin is a real cool hand.

by wicubfan on Jul 25, 2007 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Interesting diary on
the Twins site, Twinkie Town.  Discussion is about trading some of their bullpen (Nathan or Rincon) for Murton or Moore....

http://www.twinkietown.com/story/2007/7/24/03849/7664

Go Riverhawks!

by Neifi Puppy on Jul 25, 2007 1:43 PM CDT reply actions  

Rincon
would be fabulous!  

by eamuscatuli1881 on Jul 25, 2007 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Forget Rincon......
Joe Nathan would be much better.
RAMIREZ!! PRIOR!!

by PriorandAramisfan23 on Jul 25, 2007 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hm
Why would the Twins - a team in the race - want to trade a premiere bullpen arm for a minor leaguer?

by GoCubsGo11 on Jul 25, 2007 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Twins...
I don't know how much they are realistically in the race anymore.  They were swept by Detroit last week, and have lost 2 to Toronto so far this week.  They just haven't been able to put together a string of wins like the Cubs have.

The biggest hole that is missing from last year is their rotation.  Granted, it was about this time Liriano was out, but he had helped them through their surge in May and June.  And with Radke gone, their rotation is now Santana, Silva (who seems to give up at least a couple of HR's a game), Boof (who's just as inconsistant, and looking to challenge Colon for the biggest belly) and their slew of rookies who just don't have the experience right now.

I've read in the MSP papers that the talk of trading Nathan is so that the Twins can get a young power hitter or two and save the money from re-signing Nathan for Santana's future contract.  Although Nathan did say earlier this year he would give the Twins a hometown discount...  

by bleedhawkeyegold on Jul 25, 2007 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

A side-note
Rincon gave up 4 runs in 0.0 innings today. 3 hits and BB.  

Concludes the sweep of the Twins by Toronto, who were outscored 20-1 in the last two games.  

by bleedhawkeyegold on Jul 25, 2007 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

No thanks on Rincon
As we speak he just gave up 4 ER to balloon his ERA even further to 5.71.

He had a nice run w/the Twins but how much do you attribute that to Steroids? Also, who is he an upgrade over considering our need is a good Lefty?  

These Twin fans are ready to pencil in Moore and Murton for their World Series run in '08.  What are they seeing that we're not?

"We're going to turn this team around 360 degrees." -Jason Kidd

by tony412 on Jul 25, 2007 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Twin fans
haven't actually seen Murton try to play the outfield. If they watched him for two weeks, they probably wouldn't be so hot for him. I think Murton is an OK role player, but not a guy who is going to be a difference maker on any team.

by qccub on Jul 25, 2007 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Let's see...

Can't hit for power
Can't run
Can't field
Can't throw
But he can hit for average

Maybe the Twins have a thing for 1-tool players?

by salparadise23 on Jul 25, 2007 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Say Kerry does
come back. Does that mean someone gets sent back down or what happens?
I love this team!!!!!

by sue369 on Jul 25, 2007 2:11 PM CDT reply actions  

Most likely...
... Billy Petrick would be returned to Iowa.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 25, 2007 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep.
Petrick has plenty o' options left and would be the odd man out until KW is injured again.
It is July, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Jul 25, 2007 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's been said again and again
But here's one more time...

An option is for an entire season, not each instance of being called down - Once a player is sent down once from the Major League Club, he can go back and forth as many times that season as the organization wants, with no extra options being used.

Tinker to Evers to Chance!

by sanantonecub on Jul 25, 2007 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

My thoughts.
First, it seems to me that Hendry, no matter what he's saying recently, is limited to players signed only through 2007. He can't add to future payroll obligations b/c of the ownership change. Also, I believe that he's somewhat limited in what he can add to this season's payroll. It's conjecture, but isn't that why Z's contract is being held up? Also, the moves he's made so far don't add to future $s and the payroll for this season is very close to what it was on opening day.

If that's true, we are limited to rentals. That's not to say that we can't resign them, it's just that we don't know yet. So the question is- how much are we willing to pay in terms of players for any of the limited pool of available free agents to be?

That leaves Griffey out of the equation, he's signed through '08 and has an option for '09 with a $4mil buyout. Dye has been hot since the break and I'd be willing to bet he's back on track for the rest of the year. I wouldn't want to resign him. So for two months I wouldn't give up Cedeno- maybe a combination of two: Murton, EPat, Veal, Moore and anyone else who's blocked at the major league level or has an uncertain future with the Cubs. Maybe.

Cedeno is more valuable, imo, because beyond Theriot, I don't see another true SS anywhere in the organization. Even if we want to trade him, he's more valuable than a two month and gone rental. We discussed in an earlier thread the poor FA SS pool- Cedeno's value probably goes up significantly in that light.

Guys like Conine, Saunders and Kielty aren't significant upgrades and we're already betting on Kendal's bat to reappear. So why use another roster spot gambling on some fairly long odds?

We've also been talking quite a bit about defense in right field. Through 98 games, we have had 185 plays in right with 3 errors (all Murton.) That's less than 2 plays per game. Our range factor is below average, so maybe we should have another 20 or so. How much would an upgrade or downgrade out there really mean in terms of winning? My point is that we should be more concerned about getting an impact offensive force than a defensive force. It's 64 games we're talking about and we really need some hitting, IMHO.

Sorry about the length of the post- I've been holding it in for a while.

"In the olden days, the umpire didn't have to take any courses in mind reading. The pitcher told you he was going to throw at you." ~ Leo Durocher

by The Lip on Jul 25, 2007 2:39 PM CDT reply actions  

Very true
but are you suggesting no moves, or by focusing mainly on offense are you implying we should be moving on Adam Dunn?  

by eamuscatuli1881 on Jul 25, 2007 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Does this qualify as a Diary?
Dont be shy dude.
"We're going to turn this team around 360 degrees." -Jason Kidd

by tony412 on Jul 25, 2007 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Your entire post...
... is based on the assumption that Hendry cannot add any contracts that have salary beyond 2007.

While that might be true, we have no way of knowing whether it IS true or not.

Thus, many of your conclusions may be based on an erroneous assumption.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 25, 2007 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agree w/Al + correction
"I don't see another true SS anywhere in the organization..."

If you missed the CWS, OSU's Darwin Barney, a STUD SS, is now property of the Chicago Cubs. Not only is he a terrific glove, speed and gap power hitter, he has "high baseball IQ" which has been the missing piece from Ronny C (unfortunately).

It is July, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Jul 25, 2007 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't know anything about.....
....him. Hope he is as advertised. How long would you guess before he's MLB ready? We could certainly use a "real" SS with a bat.
"In the olden days, the umpire didn't have to take any courses in mind reading. The pitcher told you he was going to throw at you." ~ Leo Durocher

by The Lip on Jul 25, 2007 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're absolutely right, Al.
Of course we don't know what, if any, restrictions have been imposed upon Hendry. If there aren't any, that adds Griffey back into the discussion and anyone available we haven't discussed in this thread. As far as RF defense, our need for an offensive impact player, relative value of Cedeno and my opinion of the players who have been mentioned- that's all independent of the future payroll issue- right?   He said defensively.
To answer the other question, I'm not saying we should stand pat. My thinking is we should be selective and be looking for offense (power hitters) above anything else. As far as Dunn is concerned, I'd snatch him up and give much more than I proposed for Dye. He's a very high impact power hitter, he's a high OBP guy, good speed (8 SBs- 2 CS, 2 triples) and athletic (college QB). His iron glove wouldn't decrease our RF defense much, if at all. He's 28 and we'd have 1st crack at signing him if the ownership or whatever would allow. He isn't my dream player, but he's pretty damn good and available. Just opinions, that's all.
"In the olden days, the umpire didn't have to take any courses in mind reading. The pitcher told you he was going to throw at you." ~ Leo Durocher

by The Lip on Jul 25, 2007 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Soriano needs to rest
after yesterday at bat vs springer, i think its was clear to lou that the men needs to sit 1 or 2 games

by Alfonso on Jul 25, 2007 2:39 PM CDT reply actions  

Soriano
 Probably mention somewhere else on BCB but in a article on the Cubs website about Soriano he says he is having trouble adjusting to all the day games and he is feeling run down.

by jimhickman on Jul 25, 2007 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

i think you are right
i was also thinking to myself maybe they can call up Pie for a day or two (since they are bosom buddies) to tell Sori:  "Hey, dude, I saw you swinging like crazy at every pitch those Cardinal pitchers threw at you.  Look, man, you really don't have to swing at EVERY pitch!"  Maybe Sori will listen to Pie....

by zevkalman on Jul 25, 2007 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe lou already said that to Soriano
But in english....so we need pie to translate that to spanish

by Alfonso on Jul 25, 2007 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Lou speaks Spanish.
He's a latino.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 25, 2007 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

ohh yea he does
he talks with Z in spanish, so soriano just need to sit and watch some tapes

by Alfonso on Jul 25, 2007 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Spanish is
European

He has Espana mixed blood, not "latin".

There is a difference.

It is July, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Jul 25, 2007 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

It was my understanding that
one of his parents cam from Spain, the other from Latin America. perhaps I'm wrong, but has the husband of a lovely Puetro-Rican woman, I'm well aware of the difference between a Spaniard and a Latino.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Jul 25, 2007 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

From Wikipedia
"His Galician grandparents immigrated to Florida from Spain..."

Sorry - this is what I had read in December.

It is July, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Jul 25, 2007 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

In Spanish
Mira broder, el otro dia contra los Cardenales, te poncharon feo porque le hechabas el bate a todo lo que te lanzaban. Mira hombre, no le TIENES que batear a todo lanzamiento!
"We're going to turn this team around 360 degrees." -Jason Kidd

by tony412 on Jul 25, 2007 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

email?
Does any one have Sori's email address maybe?
"We're going to turn this team around 360 degrees." -Jason Kidd

by tony412 on Jul 25, 2007 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'll be there tonight!
Front row of the bleachers.  Maybe they find their power stroke tonight?  I sure wish I had a "Cardinal's fans like it in the Pujols" t-shirt.  I would only be able to wear it at the end of the game though, the security personnel at Busch would be all over me the second they would be alerted to it's presence.

by MrFurious on Jul 25, 2007 3:02 PM CDT reply actions  

i got
one of those two.  i smile to myself every time i see it.  do you really think security would be all over it?

by holycow07 on Jul 25, 2007 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

ABSOLUTELY
Last year I saw a Cardinal fan at Busch wearing two t-shirts.  The one on top was not offensive at all (just a Cardinal Logo).  He took that one off, and revealed a Calvin peeing on a Cub logo t-shirt.  He lasted about 4 minutes before being escorted out.  I have multiple examples of fans being escorted out for minor offenses.  I would love to see what the Cardinal security would do at Wrigley (where there seemingly is none).

by MrFurious on Jul 25, 2007 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

note to self
to keep the shirt indoors!

by holycow07 on Jul 25, 2007 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's surprising.
I haven't seen that happen at any other ballparks.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 25, 2007 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Al,
are you going to be on MHR Radio tonight?
hey, hey, cubs win.

by cubbyblue137 on Jul 25, 2007 3:05 PM CDT reply actions  

What's MHR Radio?
n/t
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 25, 2007 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nevermind
it was my mistake.
hey, hey, cubs win.

by cubbyblue137 on Jul 25, 2007 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rockies are up 7-2 over Padres right now
Game is in the bottom of the 7th.  

by AJ on Jul 25, 2007 3:50 PM CDT reply actions  

...and guess who...
is catching the game for the Padres?  Our former catcher, that's who.  Seems like the Padre pitchers have been giving up a lot of runs lately :-)

by zevkalman on Jul 25, 2007 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Since the trade
Cubs are 20-7, and the Pads are 12-17.  I'm thinking this could be one of those things, the stats can't measure.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jul 25, 2007 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed..
It's too bad, because Michael Barrett seems like a really good guy especially in this age of boorish athletes. I was a longtime advocate of getting rid of him, but on a human level I'm sad to see that I was right.
Well, sometimes nothin is a real cool hand.

by wicubfan on Jul 25, 2007 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

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