Bleed Cubbie Blue: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:



Around SBN: Reflections on the Best Blazers Month In Forever Bar-right-arrows



The Zeephus Pitch

That's what Mike termed Carlos Zambrano's two-strike floater that hit Brandon Phillips in the top of the seventh inning.

(If you don't know what an "Eephus Pitch" is, Wikipedia has a pretty good description. Yes, I know Z wasn't trying to throw that, but it sure came out that way.)

Turned out, one out later, that was the difference in the game, when Scott Hatteberg singled Phillips, who stole second off Jason Kendall, in with the Reds' sixth run. Despite a Cubs comeback, Mike Fontenot's drive to the wall in right -- which nearly everyone in the park thought was gone off the bat, and would have been gone had the early-game breeze continued -- was caught at the ivy by Norris Hopper, ten feet away from being a walkoff HR, and just like that the game was over, a 6-5 loss to the Reds.

Frustrating? Yes. But in this quirky season, it may not matter, in the long run -- as the Brewers' loss to the Cardinals, 12-4 last night, kept the Cubs only 1.5 games behind Milwaukee.

Yes, I am well aware that the 56-60 Cardinals are now only three games behind the Cubs. More on this later.

Did I say this season is quirky? It's far more than that. The Dodgers, who led Arizona by 1.5 games on July 26, have lost 13 of 16 and now trail the D'backs by 6.5 games. Meanwhile, the Diamondbacks, who have the best record in the league, lost 15-4 last night and have a negative run differential. And not just a run or two, either -- they have now allowed thirty more runs than they have scored, giving them a Pythagorean record projection of 57-63, ten games worse than their actual record. In general, things like this will tell you that the D'backs can't sustain what they are doing for too long.

The Brewers' loss last night also gives them a -5 run differential and a Pythagorean record of 59-60, while the Cubs' is 63-55 -- thus, if things were going "by the numbers", the Cubs should be 4.5 games in first place. (The Cardinals are even worse -- their Pythagorean record is 51-65, five games below their not-so-great W-L mark.)

Pythagoras doesn't play baseball, though: people do. At some point this sort of thing ought to be evening out. But we've been saying this most of the season and it hasn't happened yet. Does this mean the champion of the Comedy Central is going to have a losing record? Possible, I suppose. In the meantime the Cubs are going to have to start scoring runs by means other than solo HR -- of which they had three yesterday, including perhaps the longest of the year, a monstrous bomb onto Sheffield by Jacque Jones, who broke a tie with those other noted sluggers, Fontenot and Ryan Theriot, with his fourth of the year (the LSU duo each have three). It was nice to see Derrek Lee homer -- maybe, with Lou Piniella and Gerald Perry helping him figure out a flaw in his batting stance, he's going to bust out soon. Also nice was the return of Aramis Ramirez to the lineup; he made a couple of nice plays in the field and slammed a HR himself.

It wasn't enough, since Z was off his game -- giving up an alarming 13 hits, and having no strikeouts for the first time since the Michael Barrett meltdown game on June 1. (Those are, in fact, the only two games in which Z has failed to record a K since he joined the starting rotation on July 1, 2002.)

A razzberry to Carlos Marmol for giving up singles to the first three batters he faced in relief of Z, loading the bases. Big applause to Marmol for then striking out Jeff Keppinger looking, Ken Griffey Jr. swinging (on an absolutely filthy slider), and getting Brandon Phillips to fly to right, keeping the game close.

And I guess you have to give credit to Aaron Harang, who is, after all, one of the top starters in the league -- he kept the Cubs off-balance, apart from the HR, most of the evening, and they just couldn't get much other offense going. I know that Jim Hendry is still, even halfway through August, out there looking for a hitter. Perhaps former Cub Matt Stairs, who can still hit (.291/.363/.545 with 14 HR in 244 AB) and can still play the OF (all but two of his starts this year have been in the field) could be on the radar. (Not only that, but Stairs, from everything I've heard, is a great clubhouse guy.)

I've been someone who's said that the Cubs shouldn't make a move just to say they've done so, but they sure could have used Russell Branyan (who hit a pinch-hit, game-winning 2-run HR for the Phillies last night -- and they got him for virtually nothing from Cleveland), or Jose Cruz, who's still available. Jake Fox was recalled last night -- but not used. What's the point of having these kids on the roster if they're not going to play? Go out and get someone who's either going to start, or who's used to coming off the bench, which most players coming through the Cub farm system aren't.

Odd sights seen last night: several teenage boys and girls painting each other's chests (yes, the girls stayed in PG-13 mode) blue, with Cub numbers on their backs, including Alfonso Soriano's #12 (and the Cubs are now 2-7 since he's been hurt, including the game in which he was hurt -- I wouldn't have expected his loss to be that significant, but maybe it is). And a few other people sitting near the "blue kids", several rows beneath us, attempted to start a wave and were loudly shouted down by others in our section.

Oh, yes. The Cardinals. In 1969, a year after the Cardinals had won back-to-back pennants, they were languishing in third place in late July, 11.5 games behind the then-high-flying Cubs. They went on a mini-tear, winning sixteen of nineteen, and Harry Caray, then the Cardinals' lead radio broadcaster (yes, that's right, for those of you too young to remember, we Cubs fans of a certain age grew up knowing Harry as "the enemy" before he became beloved), would end every Cardinals' win by taunting Cubs fans: "The Cardinals are coming, tra la, tra la."

Well, as it turned out, they weren't: St. Louis never got closer than eight games out. It was another team the Cubs had to worry about in 1969, and of that, I think it best to say no more.

And in 2007, the Cubs are the team doing the chasing rather than the team being chased. It's almost imperative to win five of the six remaining games on this homestand. And tonight's weather forecast looks iffy, and at least one advance forecast has the temperature by Saturday no higher than 70.

There's a taste of fall on the way. If the Cubs want to taste baseball this fall, they'd better step up. Now.

0 recs | Comment 133 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

That ball off Fonenot's bat also might have
been gone if he had a little weight to put behind it.  For a little guy, he hits a hard ball.  Just not hard enough last night.

by N Oakley on Aug 15, 2007 8:47 AM CDT   0 recs

Al,
just let me say again your game recaps are the best. After being gone for a couple of weeks it's so refreshing to read again a professional cub fan recap of the game done professionally.

As for the next two weeks, I have had these circled on my calendar for some time. If any team goes on a tear between the Cubs-Cards-Brewers, they may get enough of a lead to hold on. Lee hitting was a good first step last night but we need Z to get back on track. This club has won as a team since June, we should not have to rely on one or two but everyone. Let's get this done.

This is Harry Carray, goodbye from Wrigley Field and So Long Everybody.

by mrcubsfan on Aug 15, 2007 8:58 AM CDT   0 recs

The Cards are the ones right now
that are on the tear.  They've been playing well as we all know, and winning some games that they probably should lose.  Assuming they come back to normal (big assumption), it will be either the Brewers or Cubs that will establish themselves as the frontrunner.  Remember that the Brewers also go on the road to the Giants and D-backs, just like the Cubs.  It's games against those 2 teams that might show us who survives.
Cubs Win!! Cubs Win!

by Ihatethecards on Aug 15, 2007 9:08 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

A tear?
Define "a tear."

Because last I checked, the Cards were 6-6 in August.  They got swept by the Nats just last week.

Sure... they are 5-1 in their last six games, but six games doesn't show a lot.  They also lost five straight immediately before that.

by big_lowitzki on Aug 15, 2007 9:20 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Agree...
Amazing what a week can do.  The Cardinals beat a struggling SD team, they beat a Dodgers team who currently have trouble scoring, and they just beat a Brewers team that has also been struggling.

While i am not writing the Cardinals off and i am not writing off their recent success (because stringing a few wins together can motivate a team quickly), i think this is more a case of the Cubs and Brewers are slowing down a bit.  If the Cubs and Brewers play .500 this past week, the Cards are not even discussed.  The good thing about the Cards is that we still play them 8 more times!  So if they fully come into the picture we hold our own fate with them.

by HIGGY on Aug 15, 2007 9:50 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Thanks!
Yes, you're right. SOMEONE in this division is bound to get hot.

The Cubs have been cold. Time to heat up, starting tonight.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 15, 2007 9:21 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Addition
The only part I'd add is that the sixth run scored by the Reds was a killer because it never should have scored.  Theriot's drop of a perfect throw by Kendall was bad.  Very bad.  He had no reason to catch the throw that far in front of second base and dropping it only made it worse.  Not a particularly good night for Theriot last night.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. -- Lee Constantine Elia, 1983.

by krummy12 on Aug 15, 2007 9:00 AM CDT   0 recs

Hot
We're staring at three straight days of +95 here in the middle of NC.  That 70 degree day sounds awful nice.  Maybe October ...

I didn't see the game last night but it's odd how a team can get out-hit and out-struckout as much as the Cubs and still only lose by 1 (as well as by 10 feet from the last swing of the game).  Theriot seems to be pressing too hard.  Maybe he's the next candidate for a day or two off.

Pie, Fontenot, Theriot and Soto up the middle ... yippie oh, oh, oh!

by SpudV on Aug 15, 2007 9:04 AM CDT   0 recs

Not quite...
Turned out, one out later, that was the difference in the game, when Scott Hatteberg singled Phillips, who stole second off Jason Kendall, in with the Reds' sixth run.

Not quite Al.  The stolen base was not off Kendall at all.  He actually made a perfect throw, and Theriot just dropped it.  

by big_lowitzki on Aug 15, 2007 9:09 AM CDT   0 recs

technically
the SB always get's credited to the catcher with I beleive the exception of a wild pitch or clear error on a play that is far frm close.
But your right...Kendall shouldn't take the blame for that SB but it still goes on his stats
I demind an asterisk be placed behind Neifi Perez's mark of 64 career homeruns

by jds2 on Aug 15, 2007 9:12 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

True.
Kendall did make a good throw -- one of the first ones he's made as a Cub.

Phillips might have been called safe anyway. It was a very close play.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 15, 2007 9:20 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Not really...
Have you actually watched the play on TV?  Or just in person?

It wasn't that close - if Theriot catches the ball he is clearly out.

by big_lowitzki on Aug 15, 2007 9:21 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I did look at the screen...
... in the building behind us, which we can see very clearly for replays.

Looked pretty close. Theriot should have made the play, I agree.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 15, 2007 9:22 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Nope
Phillips was out easily if Theriot hangs on.  Just a flat drop by Theriot, and it should have been an error.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. -- Lee Constantine Elia, 1983.

by krummy12 on Aug 15, 2007 10:42 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

last night
Krummy:  I completely agree with you about Theriot's drop of a strike on the steal last night.

Additionally (I am not trying to be nit-picky), when Aaron Harang was sacrificing with two on and no out in the 4th inning, the Cubs did not put the wheel play on.  This is the ideal spot for the wheel.  We trailed by two runs, Harang had a perfect game to that point and he is a very slow runner.  Not to mention a very athletic Z on the mound.  Of course he bunts the ball to a perfect spot that would have had the runner out easily at third and changed that entire inning.  Maybe even no runs scored.

The Cubs are a good team, but not nearly good enough to win games with these types of mistakes.

I feel better now.

by gocubsgo22 on Aug 15, 2007 9:09 AM CDT   0 recs

Nice recap, Al
My two cents that I scribed last night as well:

 - Theriot takes a walk on ball four instead of swinging and popping out, and JJones now has a TWO run HR, instead of another solo one. IS that on Quade?

- Lou lifts a tired and clueless Z before the run-scoring single (with the warmed-up LH, Piggy) and perhaps the tack-on run is stranded as well.

This was not "Skip's" best game this year either, imo.

It is AUGUST, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Aug 15, 2007 9:11 AM CDT   0 recs

Z seemed to be losing it, too...
... especially when he threw his helmet after making an out while batting.

I love his passion but he really does have to stop letting little stuff get to him.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 15, 2007 9:21 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I used to love his passion
But lately, maybe since he has been sucking, it hasn't been doing anything for em.  Yeah get pissed off, but then go out there and strike out some batters.  Otherwise it just looks like crybaby antics

by GoCubbies34 on Aug 15, 2007 9:23 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Sucking lately?
It's been two bad games.  In the 8 preceding those, he gave up only 9 earned runs combined, on 26 hits, 28 BB's & 47 strikeouts, for a 6-1 record.

by TC Cubby on Aug 15, 2007 9:52 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Bad games when we need them the most!!
He is no Ace, that was proven last night.  7 innings, no strikeouts???    

by Itchy on Aug 15, 2007 10:02 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That's a legitimate argument
but "he's no ace" is still far from "sucking".  

by TC Cubby on Aug 15, 2007 10:26 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

3 - kind of
It is more like three games.  In the first of those three, he only gave up on run, but was only able to five innings because he had SEVEN walks.

I would say that seven walks sucks.

by big_lowitzki on Aug 15, 2007 10:42 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Z needs to be better
He's only gone 7 innings or more in 3 of his last 10 outings.  He's got to be better than that.  When you go on the record saying that you're going to win the Cy Young and then ask for ACE money, you simply have to be better.  I would say SUCKING is a bit of an overstatement... but not a huge one.

by lohroffc on Aug 15, 2007 3:49 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

There is still time
obviously, to win this division. Nobody really seems to want to win it. I'm a pessimist at heart unfortunately, so I really wasn't encouraged by the comeback that fell short last night. It was still a loss when we needed a win. I'm not much into moral victories. I agree with Al that we need to win 5 of the next 6 to get back on track. There is also no denying that this is now a three team race. Quite frankly, the Cardinals worry me more than the Brewers do. I know that they have shortcomings, but hey, they sucked last year and won the Series so they know how to do it and could do it again. I honestly think the Cubs are the strongest team out of the three, they just need to start playing like it again.

by qccub on Aug 15, 2007 9:12 AM CDT   0 recs

I'm gonna use that quote
"Pythagoras doesn't play baseball."  That's catchy--in the vein of "Charlie don't surf."

by Teacherdave on Aug 15, 2007 9:22 AM CDT   0 recs

The Blue Jays inking...........
.........of Matt Stairs came at roughly the time the Cubs were signing Daryl Ward.

Not only was Stairs about a quarter-of-a-mil cheaper, but he's just a better all-around player.

Don't want to dig in the BCB archives, but I said back in December that Stairs was a better choice.  Daryl Ward has done nothing over the past 9 months to change my opinion.

by tville on Aug 15, 2007 9:27 AM CDT   0 recs

Ward's decent...
... but you're right, Stairs is better. The Cubs should never have let him go in the first place.

Toronto's likely going nowhere and I'm reasonably certain Stairs has cleared waivers. Go get him.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 15, 2007 9:29 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I wish ....
we could move Marquis to pitch on Sat since he does better with cooler weather.  

geez, was Marmol showing off?   LOL

by coral on Aug 15, 2007 9:27 AM CDT   0 recs

from Eephus to Gyroball
following some links from wiki's eephus article i came across this passage in the Gyroball article under the section "Possible Gyroballers"

Jeff Samardzija: Tezuka says he probably throws it because he is used to throwing a football, and the spin is the same.

I demind an asterisk be placed behind Neifi Perez's mark of 64 career homeruns

by jds2 on Aug 15, 2007 9:28 AM CDT   0 recs

Unlike June and July Cubs are not playing
fundementally sound right now. I chalk it up that they are wearing and getting tired. The pile up injuries has pushed where I am seeing Lee miss on pitches right down mainstreet, DeRosa is doing the same.  The leaking defensively is beginning to show up as in Theriot's botched tag.

This will be interesting since the Brewers are losing badly while the Cardinals are beginning to grind.

Milw-09-24-98--Brown in for defense--bases loaded--flyball--HE DROPPED THE BALL!!!NO NO NO, cubs lose 8-7

by Ivy Walls on Aug 15, 2007 9:30 AM CDT   0 recs

I hate August...
 Every team goes through a slump like this in late July/August. Every single year. And the fans in every city goe through this late-season angst in the process. We've got a good team. And unless you just have a bad team, these things aren't usually prolonged. Some one wake me in September.

  And Al...what I wouldn't give for Ron Mahay and Luis Castillo right about now.

by Damen Jackson on Aug 15, 2007 9:39 AM CDT   0 recs

Mahay and Castillo?
Why?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 15, 2007 9:46 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Lord yes...
 Move I wish were made. A decent lefty, and a chance to move DeRosa out to right. Sounds alot better to me than Stairs, or watching that travesty that was Ward in RF last night.

by Damen Jackson on Aug 15, 2007 10:02 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Well...
... the Cubs didn't lose the game because Ward was playing RF.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 15, 2007 10:06 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

No they didn't....
 but it was still a little sad to watch. I went blind for a few minutes after seeing it.

by Damen Jackson on Aug 15, 2007 10:08 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

LMAO
But also see below, a comment on Ward's nice running catch last night.

He's not great, but neither is he horrid, and the Cubs can use his bat.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 15, 2007 10:15 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I saw the play...
 the ball hung for an extra second or two, allowing him time to catch up. Say what you will, but no man with an ass three axehandles wide should be playing RF.

by Damen Jackson on Aug 15, 2007 10:17 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Not certain I called it "running"
Full lope was more like it, but it was an out and not the extra bases I thought when I saw the ball leave the bat.

by N Oakley on Aug 15, 2007 10:18 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Hahaha...
 now that's funny.

by Damen Jackson on Aug 15, 2007 10:19 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

This team looks tired and tight.....
I really like Al's idea of grabbing a veteran like Matt Stairs. Could energize the clubhouse...and the lineup.

We still have at least two weeks to go without Sori and that is if everything goes perfectly.

I was at the game and as soon as we saw Z throw his helment we knew he was done mentally for the night..

Let me get back to you, will ya, Charlie? I got a guy on the other line asking about some white walls.

by JB 23 on Aug 15, 2007 9:41 AM CDT   0 recs

Crow tastes good
In the pre-game comments yesterday I made some disparaging comments on the fielding of the Cubs starting right fielder.  

Mr. Ward, you made a good play on the shot down the line to not just get to the ball, but get there early enough to make the catch.  

by N Oakley on Aug 15, 2007 10:10 AM CDT   0 recs

Al,
How can you compare the Cardinals of '69 to today's NL Central?

The Cardinals were chasing an extremely hot Mets team, and a Cubs team that was off to an amazing start.

The NL Central is a snail's race.  It doesn't/won't/will not resemble the 1969 race in any way shape or form.

If anything, this might resemble the crapshoot that was the 1973 NL East race, where 5 teams were still in the race with two weeks left.  For all you kids out there, go to www.retrosheet.org to see the madness of that race.

The Cardinals CAN catch Chicago and Milwaukee because both teams are garbage right now.

AND, for all the kids out there who are holding out hope that the Cubs can duplicate what the Cardinals did last year, just keep this in mind.

There have been 102 World Champions in baseball history.  The worst record to EVER win the world championship was by the St. Louis Cardinals.  SO< you're telling me that only ONCE in 102 chances a team won under 85 games and won the championship...that if the Cubs made the playoffs under 85 wins that they would have a shot?  NO, kids.  The chances are written on paper.  It's a 1/102 shot.  ANd if you believe that THAT can happen AND that it can happen in back to back years, I feel sorry for you.
I really do.

I love this team, I love the Cubs, but seriously, pack the bags, enjoy the ride, and get ready for a title shot in '08.

"You're fired." - Dallas Green to Billy Connors while Billy was staying in the hospital.

by jdoolsiu on Aug 15, 2007 10:15 AM CDT   0 recs

Sigh.
I was making no comparison other than to say that the 1969 Cardinals got hot for a time, and fell short of winning. I suspect the 2007 Cardinals will do the same.

Other than that, no, there aren't really any comparisons.

The difference between this year and last year, when an 83-win team won the title, is that there are NO dominant teams in the NL (if you read my post carefully, you'll note that I point out that the team that currently has the best record in the NL has a horrendous negative run differential). Thus ANY NL team that gets into the playoffs has a shot at winning the NL title.

I should point out that of the three other teams since divisional play to have made the postseason with 85 wins or less (1973 Mets, 1984 Royals, 1987 Twins), two of them took the World Series to seven games.

Don't give up yet. Or, give up if you want to. I won't.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 15, 2007 10:24 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

this year's chances
how does the cardinals winning the WS with less than 85 wins last year have any impact on a team's chances this season?  if anything, the fact that it happened last year would be more likely to give the cubs a greater chance to win if they sneak in, as it is an indication of what is possible in this day and age.  

if you feel sorry for the fans that choose to remain hopeful, go ahead.  but it is fallacious to say that last year's events have any impact on this year's.

by numike on Aug 15, 2007 10:39 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Odds
"There have been 102 World Champions in baseball history.  The worst record to EVER win the world championship was by the St. Louis Cardinals.  SO< you're telling me that only ONCE in 102 chances a team won under 85 games and won the championship...that if the Cubs made the playoffs under 85 wins that they would have a shot?  NO, kids.  The chances are written on paper.  It's a 1/102 shot.  ANd if you believe that THAT can happen AND that it can happen in back to back years, I feel sorry for you.
I really do."

So if you had posted this on the Cardinals site last year would their fans have given up all hope seeing as how according to your logic, they would have had a 0% chance of winning?  It's a pennant race right now and like Al said with the NL as open as ever, ENJOY THE RIDE!  The Cardinals proved last year that if you get hot at the right time, anything can happen.  Yeah, the odds are stacked against the Cubs (and every NL team for that matter), but if the Cubs win it this year, it'll only make it that much sweeter.

If you've truly given up hope already? well then I feel sorry for you.  I really do.  You must lead a miserable life.

"Dad gum right this games gonna be played under protest. . . I guarantee this is gonna be one protest that's upheld." --Hawk Harrelson, 6/24/07

by RynoHoF on Aug 15, 2007 10:42 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

its not as unlikely as you make it out
The division is roughly similar to how it was last year.  There is no one dominant team.  It's only 1/102 if every season is completely indepedant and since rosters are similar it is clearly not.

by JonH on Aug 15, 2007 11:33 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

What??
The 1/102 "agrument" doesn't make much sense. Yes, the Cubs have been scuffling, but the bottom line is get in the playoffs and anything can happen.  I don't see the Cardinals hangin around, especially without Carpenter in the mix this year.

by cubboy89 on Aug 15, 2007 3:00 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That's silly
How many times have teams with less than 85 wins even made the playoffs?  I'm going to go out on a limb and guess it had never happened before the Wild Card era.

You have to look at the odds of winning once an 85 team has made the playoffs, not after.  Otherwise it would be sort of like going back to 1997 and telling the Marlins they had no chance of winning the World Series because in 95 years no Wild Card team had ever won the world series.  

by Wreckard on Aug 15, 2007 3:20 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I like the recap Al, but
I am already set to move on.  Z didn't pitch well, defense let him down, and let everyone know he was frustrated at the entire outing by throwing his helmet.  After all that, the Cubs had a chance to win, Lee homered, ARam homered, DeRosa ducked in time so the ball hit his shoulder and not his head.

I want to see the boys make the Cinci pitcher tonight look like the rookie he is and not Cy Young.  Shouldn't be asking for too much. Right?

by N Oakley on Aug 15, 2007 10:26 AM CDT   0 recs

Right.
But "move on"? From what?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 15, 2007 10:31 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

If I could read and process at the same
time, I would have answered "from what" versus "to what."

"From" being the game they should have won yesterday.

by N Oakley on Aug 15, 2007 11:19 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh.
Well, that makes sense. Onward!
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 15, 2007 12:46 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Youngsters
"Jake Fox was recalled last night -- but not used. What's the point of having these kids on the roster if they're not going to play?"

don't you know Al, Lou and Jim are trying to see if they can use every minor league players options up before the end of the season?

That way we can be forced to DFA all these guys 3 years from now when they're completely out of options and we need to make roster room

by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 15, 2007 10:28 AM CDT   0 recs

One game...
He just got called up yesterday.  LouPa has rarely played a guy on the day that he got called up from the minors.

And lets be honest - Fox isn't being called up to be an everyday starter.  Which probably isn't a bad thing, being that Fox is mediocre, at best, defensively.

by big_lowitzki on Aug 15, 2007 10:44 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

i'm not saying Fox should play
i'm just making a comment on how many options we're using on guys for little apparent reason

we keep calling up guys to essentially sit on the bench for 3-4 days and then sending them back down

there seems to be little rhyme or reason to the strategy other than throwing mud at the wall and hoping something sticks

by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 15, 2007 11:04 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Options...
Because of the (lack of) time that Fox spent in the minors after he was sent down, an option was not wasted.  The same is said for EPat, as he will not spend enough time in the minors before 9/1 to use an option.

by big_lowitzki on Aug 15, 2007 11:08 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

really?
interesting, that's something i didn't know

how long do you have to be up for an option to technically be used?

by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 15, 2007 11:10 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

20 days...
From what I understand, and according to the great Arizona Phil at The Cub Reporter, if a player spends less than 20 days on optional assignment to the minors in a given season, a minor league option is not used.

by big_lowitzki on Aug 15, 2007 11:22 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Minor League Options Remaining, Courtesy AZ PHIL
Here is the current minor league option status for Cubs players with less than five years of MLB service time:

MINOR LEAGUE OPTION STATUS (8-6-2007):

* Can only be optioned to minors after clearing Optional Waivers

NO MINOR LEAGUE OPTIONS LEFT
Koyie Hill

ONE MINOR LEAGUE OPTION LEFT
Ronny Cedeno (will be out of minor league options in 2008)
Angel Guzman (see NOTE below)
Rich Hill

  • Roberto Novoa
  • Will Ohman
Geovany Soto (will be out of minor league options in 2008)
* Michael Wuertz

TWO MINOR LEAGUE OPTIONS LEFT
* Neal Cotts (will have one minor league option left in 2008)
Brian Dopirak (will have one minor league option left in 2008)
Mike Fontenot (will have one minor league option left in 2008)
Carlos Marmol (will have one minor league option left in 2008)
Scott Moore (will have one minor league option left in 2008)
Angel Pagan (will have one minor league option left in 2008)
Felix Pie (will have one minor league option left in 2008)
Ryan Theriot

THREE MINOR LEAGUE OPTIONS LEFT
Rocky Cherry (will have two minor league options left in 2008)
Buck Coats (will have two minor league options left in 2008)
Jake Fox (will have two minor league options left in 2008 if he is not recalled by 8-16-07)
Sean Gallagher (will have two minor league options left in 2008)
Sean Marshall (will have two minor league options left in 2008)
Juan Mateo (will have two minor league options left in 2008)
Matt Murton (will have two minor league options left in 2008)
Billy Petrick (will have two minor league options left in 2008)
Clay Rapada (will have two minor league options left in 2008)

FOUR MINOR LEAGUE OPTIONS LEFT
Jeff Samardzija (will have three minor league options left in 2008)

NOTE: Angel Guzman will have that 4th option year available again next year because he still has not spent five full seasons on an active minor league and/or major league roster. (A "full sesaon" is defined as 60 consecutive days on an MLB or full-season minor league club roster from Opening Day, or 90 days aggregate on an active roster MLB and/or minor league rosters in a given season, and Guzman somehow still has not done that).

Also, Jeff Samardzija gets four option years, as long as he uses them all before the 2012 season, because he will not have spent five full seasons on a minor league and/or major league roster until after the 2011 sesason (at the earliest).

>>>>>

As you see, Jake Fox now will have only one left. But, at least unlike the former manager, Lou will actually try the callups and see how they perform.

It is AUGUST, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Aug 15, 2007 11:24 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Nope...
E-Man...

Fox will not have one of his options used up, because he was called up by 8/16.

This means that he will still have THREE options, not one.

by big_lowitzki on Aug 15, 2007 11:33 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

DOH!
Sorry - you are indeed right!

I sit corrected.

It is AUGUST, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Aug 15, 2007 11:36 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You should post this in the diary about Soto.
It explains why K. Hill is currently in the big team and Soto is not as the backup C. Hill is out of options; Soto has one left.

by Fraggin Judge on Aug 15, 2007 11:53 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That's not why...
Soto was already called up, and has since spent more than 20 days in the minors, so this year's option has already been used.

An option is for a year, meaning that you can move a player back and forth as many times as you want in one year and only use one option.

by big_lowitzki on Aug 15, 2007 12:07 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

thanks
this is really helpful information i didn't know.

So if Soto was called up in September would his option have been used this season or not?

Of all the players it seems like using Soto's option the way that it was this year seems the silliest

and for clarity's sake:

you mentioned the player has to stay 20 days in the minors for the player to be "optioned"

so could a player be yo-yo-ed up and down all season long and never have an option used?

by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 15, 2007 12:45 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Total time
I believe the 20 days is "total time" - so every day spent down in the minors, after being sent down, would be added up to determine whether it was 20+ days.

Options are not used when you call someone up (whether in September or not); they are only used when sending someone down.

by big_lowitzki on Aug 15, 2007 12:47 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

ok
gotcha

thanks for the clarification

very very helpful

and only 1 option can be used per year right?

by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 15, 2007 12:53 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Correct
Correct - only one option can be used per year.

by big_lowitzki on Aug 15, 2007 2:32 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

cedeno
also cedeno's yo-yo-ing around will likely make it that he never achieves much with the Cubs.

His minor league numbers are fantastic in AAA and certainly suggest there's some potential there but it doesn't seem he'll be given anot