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Waterlogged

That's how I feel after three consecutive days of very strong downpours hit Wrigley Field, with three different results on the diamond: a win on Saturday, a rainout yesterday, and today's 6-4 loss to the Cardinals, a game I felt bad about the moment Ryan Theriot tried to stretch his leadoff double into a triple and got thrown out by Rick Ankiel. The Yahoo game recap attached to the above boxscore said it was a "perfect" throw, but it wasn't -- it was to the dugout side of third base, but Theriot wasn't even close to making it, so Scott Rolen had plenty of time to swing around and tag him out.

The ball had actually bounced off Ankiel's head, which is why Theriot probably thought he had a chance to make third. Still, down 2-0 in the bottom of the first, why would you want to take yourself out of scoring position?

The Cubs managed to tie the game on solo HR by Daryle Ward and Mark DeRosa, back-to-back in the second, but then coughed the lead back up in the top of the third when Aramis Ramirez couldn't handle Rolen's bouncer with runners on second and third. At the very least, he'd have gotten an out at first even if a run had scored -- instead, a run scored, and then another one on what would otherwise have been an inning-ending groundout to first base.

Derrek Lee also homered today, his 100th as a Cub, and that briefly gave hope as it made the score 5-4 in the last of the sixth. Why Lou had Ted Lilly bat for himself in the bottom of the fifth, almost 100 pitches into a not-so-great performance, I have no idea. Yes, I understand the concept of not wanting to overtax your bullpen, but Lilly had almost nothing today and with the score at the time 5-3, I'd have thought Lou would have wanted to attempt to generate some offense with the top of the order due up. Incidentally, the HR that Albert Pujols hit off Lilly in the top of the fifth was caught on Waveland by Mo Mullins, one of the veteran ballhawks; he then let one of the kids on the street choose the throwback ball that he then let loose over the bleachers. After the game I walked by the chairs that the ballhawks set up on the corner of Waveland & Kenmore and talk to people going by. Sitting behind Ballhawk Dave was a dry-erase board reading:

Dumb Questions
----------------------------
Cub fans 4, Cardinal fans 5

OK, so we won that one, I guess.

After Lilly finally was pulled -- for Mike Fontenot, who hasn't had a hit in a week -- Carmen Pignatiello came in and had one job, retire Ankiel, the only left-handed hitter he was to face. He failed -- Ankiel hit Pignatiello's first and only pitch into the left-field bleachers, making the score 6-4, as a light rain began to fall. Kerry Wood then entered, and got all three batters he faced -- Pujols, Juan Encarnacion, and Rolen -- to fly out, and then the rain fell harder, and play was halted for 87 minutes.

When it resumed, only about 1/3 of the crowd of 40,141 remained, and I was a bit surprised to see Ryan Franklin, who had thrown the sixth, still in the game. Didn't matter -- the Cubs did nothing with him, and it was clear how badly Tony LaRussa wanted this game, because he had his closer, Jason Isringhausen, in the game in the 8th inning, for a rare (at least these days) two-inning save. Isringhausen has been pretty much lights-out this year (only two blown saves, but one of them was in this April 22 game at Wrigley Field, which the Cardinals wound up winning), and although the Cubs got a couple of runners on base in the 8th, Mark DeRosa hit into an inning-ending DP, and the ninth was 1-2-3, and thus ended the series. The Cubs actually had hit Cardinal starter Joel Piniero pretty hard -- in addition to Theriot's double and the two HR, there were five other balls hit very hard for outs (one of which, a sinking liner by DeRosa in the fourth, was snagged on a nice diving catch by Ankiel). Props also to D-Lee for his slick play on Ankiel's sharp grounder down the line to end the top of the fourth, and to good relief outings by Wood and Michael Wuertz, who at least kept the game close.

It doesn't feel very good, but it's another series win, two games to one, in this series abbreviated by rain -- if I never see another raindrop it won't be soon enough, I think my clothes from last night are still drying out -- and the Cubs can maintain their one-game lead if the Brewers lose tonight in Arizona (see the game thread below for the Milwaukee/Arizona Gameday link).

I learned today that a decision on when to make up yesterday's game may come as soon as tomorrow. What that decision is going to be, I have no idea and wasn't given any inkling by my source. As I noted this morning, I believe the best way to make up the game is to hold it to the end of the season and play it Monday, Oct. 1 at Wrigley Field, only if necessary to determine a playoff spot.

Let's hope the game won't be necessary, for the right reasons. Onward and westward, and let's start winning again.

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The pen had yesterday off
Too bad Lou didn't go to it sooner...

Good to see Wood pitch a scoreless inning and good to see Cedeno sent down to where he belongs.  Apparently, great Triple A numbers don't always translate into good major league numbers..

Great to see Floyd back.. The bench needs a boost.  The teams a bit depleted without Sori..

SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!

by CubFaninCA on Aug 20, 2007 7:07 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Cedeno -
nice kid I suppose - but baseball "dumb as a post".
It is AUGUST, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Aug 20, 2007 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

bears
vs colts...at least watch the 1st 30 min.

by tbizzle83 on Aug 20, 2007 7:07 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

We need to go west
and make the Giants small.  Time to show no mercy and kick butt.  I'd love to see a sweep in the Bay Area as Phoenix has not been kind to us.

The Cubs need to get back to showing an advantage over the BrewCrew on the road.

Prince Fielder...he is neither.

by LAcarl519 on Aug 20, 2007 7:35 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

My thought on the make up
is the same as yours Al. Let's not take off days away or play double headers. End of the season would be perfect and, it may not have to be made up after all.
This is Harry Carray, goodbye from Wrigley Field and So Long Everybody.

by mrcubsfan on Aug 20, 2007 7:59 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Al - why not
just walk Pujols on any crucial AB?

I mean, forget the ego. No one on the team can beat him consistently, save Z.

Just let Encarnacion or Rolen beat us (which he did today after going 0-series).

It is AUGUST, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Aug 20, 2007 8:09 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

On Hank White...
"Henry Blanco, rehabbing at Triple-A Iowa, is 2-for-10 after three games with one RBI." Cubs.com

Glad to see Hank is falling right in-line with our other catchers (although, Kendall has recovered nicely at the plate somewhat).

It is AUGUST, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Aug 20, 2007 8:21 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Kendall?!
Falling in somewhat? I'd love to see the backstops hit near .300 (OK its .289) with an OBP more than 100 pts higher than the BA (.398)...these are Cubs-only numbers.

He has 12BB's to only 7K's.

Now if Lou can convince the selfish Alfonz to bat 5th or 6th when he comes back and put TheRiot at leadoff with Kendall 2nd...

da-da-daddio

by blackhawk24 on Aug 21, 2007 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It wasn't Moe - it was me
Al, it wasn't Moe Mullins that caught the Pujols homer - it was me, Ballhawk Ken.  

Moe had just left the game and was walking to his car when the ball came out.  Actually, it's kind of a running joke amongst us ballhawks - we always try to convince Moe to leave early so a homer will come out.  Call it Moe-phy's Law.  Sure enough, today one did.

Funny thing was, the previous inning  some guy had given me a free bleacher ticket.  I was going to go in but then checked the lineup and figured I'd wait until after Pujols/Encarnacion/Rolen batted one more time.  

Of course my refusal to throw the real ball back didn't sit too well with some of left field bleacher fans so I figured I was better off staying outside.

BTW, Pujols is now tied with Soriano for most street homers this year - two!

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Aug 20, 2007 8:25 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Oh, and I have to ask...
...did anyone see how far the throwback went?

The bleacher expansion makes it bit tougher to see the cutoff man so I usually just aim right over some drunk guy (there's always at least one) in the top row.

Anyway, if you saw the throw, is Murton worried about his job now?   ;-)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Aug 20, 2007 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ken...
... thanks for clarifying. It was hard to see in the fog.

How far did it go? Pretty far -- about 2/3 of the way toward SS. Nice throw!

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 20, 2007 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cedeno down, Hill DFA
Floyd and Blanco return probably an upgrade wonder how many more roster 'tweaks' until official expansion--is that officially on Sept. 1 or after?? I recall some coming later, when teams finish minor league seasons...

by writerinwrigley on Aug 20, 2007 8:59 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Umm...I posted this already
in the last thread. Quite some time ago...
It is AUGUST, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Aug 20, 2007 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was worth posting again...
... since it kind of got buried in the other thread.

So, Blanco returns and Soto will be up on September 1, and that'll give the Cubs a strong catching staff for the stretch run.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 20, 2007 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Indeed -
I agree in that we certainly can use Soto's power that he's shown in AAA! He has been a "masher" there.
It is AUGUST, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Aug 20, 2007 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Milwaukee puts up an early 3 spot on AZ
There is no place like Nebraska - Go Huskers!

by sanantonecub on Aug 20, 2007 9:14 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

scratch that and double it
6-0
There is no place like Nebraska - Go Huskers!

by sanantonecub on Aug 20, 2007 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Anybody want to put a line on if
the Brewers blow it tonight. I obviously hope that they do, but the question is, can they hold on.

by louslovechild on Aug 20, 2007 9:41 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It was nice meeting you too Al
I wasn't quite myself that day, a bit out of it to tell you the truth.  A night in Vegas and then a sleepless plane ride will do that to you though I suppose.  

But it was a great game to watch and enjoyed every minute of it.  Hopefully see you again sometime, either at Wrigley or at HoHoKam

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Aug 20, 2007 9:53 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Tack on 3 more
9-0.  
There is no place like Nebraska - Go Huskers!

by sanantonecub on Aug 20, 2007 10:10 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

This is the only game Milw
gets in the AZ series.  Best believe that.
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!

by CubFaninCA on Aug 20, 2007 10:23 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

anyone one see
That Jeff cirillo is pitching, how crazy is that

by Bigdogg2002 on Aug 20, 2007 11:25 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Rozner says it best
From today's Daily Herald:

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/rozner.asp?id=341829

Seam stress

So the Cubs are down 2 runs in the eighth Monday and the Cards send their closer out for a 2-inning save, but the Cubs make Jason Isringhausen throw only 16 pitches in two frames.

After Derrek Lee led with a 6-pitch walk, Aramis Ramirez -- here's a shock -- swung at the first pitch and flied out. After Daryle Ward swung at the first pitch and singled, Mark DeRosa swung at the first pitch and hit into a double play.

In the ninth, Matt Murton swung at the fourth pitch, Jason Kendall at the second and Jake Fox at the first.

Ball game.

da-da-daddio

by blackhawk24 on Aug 21, 2007 7:17 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Not down yet.
"Z" was lights out on Sunday.  If we could have completed that game we would have been 3-1 against the Cards on this homestand.  Our power hitting is waking up.  It is a good time to go out to SF and win the series if not sweep the Giants.  After all, what do have have to play for now that Mr. Bonds has gotten his record.
I want my Macias!

by wombat on Aug 21, 2007 7:38 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

He wasn't "lights out"
He was throwing well but not his best.  12 pitches or something like that in that first at bat?

by Arbusto on Aug 21, 2007 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And...
The really far inside strike zone helped him a lot.

by Arbusto on Aug 21, 2007 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and about 20 total...
to the 8 batters after that.  If you're going to judge his outing off just the first batter, then yes, he didn't have his best stuff.  But after Miles did a good job of battling, Z really mowed them down.

Regardless, did you get the feeling that anyone was going to hit Z Sunday night?  After that first batter, he mowed through the lineup.

by SouthernCub on Aug 21, 2007 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I did.
I didn't think his stuff was the best.  It was good but he's been better.  He would not have gotten pounded, though, unless he blew up.

by Arbusto on Aug 21, 2007 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe I missed a game
It was a good as I've ever seen Z pitch on Sunday.  What other game do you think he was better?  And if so, was it up to the caliber of the batters he was facing Sunday?  I don't want to get argumentative, I just want to know what game you thought he was throwing at his best.
I want my Macias!

by wombat on Aug 21, 2007 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i thought
it was no hit stuff.  he was spotting the fastball on the corner at 95 at will, the slider was breaking hard, no one had a hard hit off him.
Big Z on Cuban: "Plus, I can be signed by him. You know, I know he has the money for me. Hopefully he can buy the Cubs."

by kylejo on Aug 21, 2007 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes
Hendry has dropped the ball by not getting an outfield bat, particularly one who can hit lefties, while Soriano is on the DL.  Murton obviously isn't getting the job done.  Murton has pretty much been playing every day since he was brought up and appears to still suck.  Other than a few good games in two of the best hitters parks in the league (Colorado and Houston) he's been downright awful.  I wonder what excuse his supporters will dream up next.  Soriano can't get healthy soon enough.

by cubsbak on Aug 21, 2007 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

3 good series, 1 bad series
he was good against houston, colorado, and cinci.  he was bad against stl.

"murton appears to still suck"  good conclusion, one bad series, and he had the only cubs hit in the rained out sunday game.

you are ridiculous.

Big Z on Cuban: "Plus, I can be signed by him. You know, I know he has the money for me. Hopefully he can buy the Cubs."

by kylejo on Aug 21, 2007 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Couldn't agree more
I love this team!!!!!

by sue369 on Aug 21, 2007 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just a reminder
of his current stats:  .254/.330/.373.  That's what I base my conclusions on.  

by cubsbak on Aug 21, 2007 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ok buddy
we're not going to get into this again.  but his second half numbers are better than his first half, which continues the trend of being a "second half player" that he set the first two years in the league.  his slg. and ops are 100 points up from the first half.

plus those numbers arent "downright awful" as you described him.

you simply love to hate a guy who has shown promise and has no reason to be beaten down.  give it a rest.

Big Z on Cuban: "Plus, I can be signed by him. You know, I know he has the money for me. Hopefully he can buy the Cubs."

by kylejo on Aug 21, 2007 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Murton's last 21 AB's
.190/.292/.238.  Yeah, he's really turning it on in the second half.  As I said, other than a couple games in Colorado and Houston he's been downright awful since his callup, which is right in line with what he's done all season.  

by cubsbak on Aug 21, 2007 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He could never play defense worth a crud
And now, his only asset (being a good .300 contact hitter) has gone to the trash, because he's trying to become a power hitter in order to actually justify playing everyday OF.
1-RUN GAMES = 16-19 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-7 | HOME = 33-30 | updated on 8/20

by SackMan on Aug 21, 2007 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you are just simply insane
i mean, do you watch baseball?  you realize that every single major league player has a 21 at bat stretch where they are just not as locked in as they normally are.

you simply refuse to look at the bigger picture, which is that murton has helped the team since his callup, and his numbers are better in the second half than the first.

you are too ignorant to argue with, saying things like "other than a couple games here and there...blah blah blah"  i mean, you could do that for ANY PLAYER.  

"well, other than a couple games against st. louis, daryle ward has been DOWNRIGHT AWFUL! in the second half"

give. me. a break.  seriously, this argument is over, we've had it way too many times.

Big Z on Cuban: "Plus, I can be signed by him. You know, I know he has the money for me. Hopefully he can buy the Cubs."

by kylejo on Aug 21, 2007 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right
I think Murton sucks because I'm insane and I've never seen a baseball game in my life.  It's not because he's hit like crap this season, he doesn't drive in runs and he doesn't score runs, his defense is bad, and his baserunning is worse.  It has nothing to do with those things.  It's because I'm insane and I've never watched a baseball game in my life.  You've figured it out.  Nice job.

by cubsbak on Aug 21, 2007 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ok
maybe you're not insane, but the arguments you're making, just dont mean anything.

saying things like "take out those games that he did well in...and then youll see how much he sucks"

or

"in his last 21 at bats hes done poorly, therefore hes been 'downright awful' since his call-up"

these arguments are nit-picky and dont reflect the player as a whole.  

im done arguing, we've both made our points.  we'll see how the rest of the season shapes up.

Big Z on Cuban: "Plus, I can be signed by him. You know, I know he has the money for me. Hopefully he can buy the Cubs."

by kylejo on Aug 21, 2007 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you're gonna start
bragging about his second half abilities based on such small sample sizes, I don't think my arguments are any less ridiculous.

My fundamental premise is that the guy has sucked pretty much the whole year.  People like you can make excuses for him about needing to play every day and doing better in the second half and blah, blah, blah.  But he's hitting .254 right now, which is about 15 points below where everyone's favorite punching bag Jacque Jones is hitting, and Jacque Jones plays a pretty good center field.  Cut the excuses.  The guy has sucked this year and deserves his spot on the bench or in Iowa once Soriano gets healthy or Hendry can sign a decent outfielder.

by cubsbak on Aug 21, 2007 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Where is bizarro bcb Jacob...
to talk about selective end points.

Murton is certainly not a great player, but if he gets hot, like JJ dis, and hits above .350 for a few weeks with regular playing time, all of the sudden his stats won't look so bad and a lot of the critizism will go away.

On the other hand if he slumps for a few weeks, his number won't get as bad and Cedeno or K. Hill.

This guy is servicable, and capable of better things.

I think he's a free agent after this year.  Think we will resign him?

by El Borto on Aug 21, 2007 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's played pretty much every day
for the past two weeks and it hasn't happened yet.  I hope he gets hotter than sh-- and helps the Cubs win a lot of games.  But once Floyd comes back my guess is Murton will be relegated to the bench, at least against righties.  I think we'll see Ward, Jones, and Floyd against righties.  Murton's had his chances this season and so far he's failed to take advantage of them.

by cubsbak on Aug 21, 2007 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

wherever you are, i'm right there with you.
but if he gets hot, like JJ dis, and hits above .350 for a few weeks with regular playing time, all of the sudden his stats won't look so bad and a lot of the critizism will go away.

so true El Borto, so true.

A few observations.

  1. murton will only have around 2 years of service time at the end of this year so he won't even be arbitration eligible next year. you need 6 years of major league service to become a free agent.
  2. i agree that calling him a second half player is really goofy. his first second half ('05) was more like a first half since he was called up in july... i certainly wouldn't rely a handful of ABs in '05 and '06 to say he's a good player.
  3. it's completely silly to discount everything Murton has done before this season in order to say he sucks. he doesn't suck. he has over 2,000 professional plate appearances that say otherwise.
  4. you can expect a mishandled prospect to have a longer adjustment period. murton went through it to a small degree in '06 and then started to go through it again in '07 before the team quit on him.
The only thing left for the cubs to do now is trade him. He's not going to develop his major league potential as a pinch hitter. He's a left fielder than Hendry simply screwed up. In the offseason plenty of teams will line up to deal an aging, fading right fielder to the cubs for the right to develop Murton's ML talent.

by jacob on Aug 21, 2007 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

this seems like
the most rational post yet on the murton subject.
Big Z on Cuban: "Plus, I can be signed by him. You know, I know he has the money for me. Hopefully he can buy the Cubs."

by kylejo on Aug 21, 2007 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Too bad
it came from a darn Brewer fan!

Kidding, I agree with this statement.

MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 21, 2007 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

where are you getting this?
in posts back a few weeks ago, when i was making the second half claim i used a pretty large sample size; we'll look at that sample size again and then be done with this:

Career first half (371 ab): .272/.344/.369
Career second half (401 ab): .309/.377/.509

the difference in slugging is substantial, and i think its pretty clear the guy does better in the second half.

Big Z on Cuban: "Plus, I can be signed by him. You know, I know he has the money for me. Hopefully he can buy the Cubs."

by kylejo on Aug 21, 2007 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree
Looking at first half/second half splits is a reasonable thing to do.

I was more making a comment on the last 21 games, or over this series or that series claims that were being made.  

I think Murton should play.  When Soriano comes back have him split time with Floyd or Pie in RF.

by El Borto on Aug 21, 2007 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's played part time
for two seasons.  It's silly to make judgments about a guy being a "second half player" based on such a short major league career.  The guy is essentially unproven.

by cubsbak on Aug 21, 2007 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yet
every year he's been in the majors, his stats are always better from july on.  near 800 at bats is plenty large enough of a sample size.
Big Z on Cuban: "Plus, I can be signed by him. You know, I know he has the money for me. Hopefully he can buy the Cubs."

by kylejo on Aug 21, 2007 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

One thing to note
is the Cubs were out of the pennant race the last two years, which means they were playing a lot of meaningless games in the second half.  It's a lot easier to perform when the games are meaningless (if for no other reason than you get to play against more september call-ups).  The guy is totally unproven and for someone to say he's a second-half player based on the past two seasons is ridiculous.  Murton has sucked this season.  He sucked at the beginning of the season and he's sucking now.  I don't understand why you can't see this.

by cubsbak on Aug 21, 2007 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't bother
You're never going to win the Murton isn't very good argument with some folks around here.  It's pointless to continue it.  His production, or lack thereof, supports your position that he's not very good....and I agree wholeheartedly with it.  Hits way too many ground balls, has lost speed because he's gotten heavy-legged over the last year and is just a mediocre or worse OF.  But, there are some that insist he is a difference-making OF "if he plays everyday".  I say let them believe what they want to believe....I'll take Soriano back today in a heart beat.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. -- Lee Constantine Elia, 1983.

by krummy12 on Aug 21, 2007 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

so true
Learned this a few weeks ago. Murton cures cancer, didn't you know?

by hawkeyenation on Aug 21, 2007 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks
I was going to point that out if no one else did. I mean whatever, he is serviceable and at this point he is our best option out there. We can't do much about that. But we can stop short of saying he is a second half monster or this or that since essentially he has one season worth of at bats.

He isn't doing a bad job out there, to be fair.

by hawkeyenation on Aug 21, 2007 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Part time?
He played pretty close to full-time last year, especially in the second half.

by big_lowitzki on Aug 21, 2007 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Before this season
he had 595 AB's over two seasons.  That's what I'd call part time.  Hardly enough of a track record to start bragging about his second half prowess.

by cubsbak on Aug 21, 2007 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

2006
144 games
455 AB

not quite fulltime, but very close

2005 he was a July call-up

by El Borto on Aug 21, 2007 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough
But based on one almost-full season you're gonna tell me he's a second half player?  Gimme a break.

by cubsbak on Aug 21, 2007 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

no
based on a near 800 at bat career.  stat heads out there, is 800 at bats a large enough of a sample size to draw some sort of conclusion out of?

a 150 point gain in slugging from one half to another in 772 at bats is significant.

also, you are hurting your argument by saying "whoa wait, all of those at bats weren't in full time duty" well haha it is more difficult to put up numbers in part time play than everyday at bats, so his numbers would likely be even better had all of those at bats been in regular duty.

anyway you slice it, a career .291/.361/.442 player who leads your team in pitches seen per at bat is a valuable piece to a team.  whether it be in part time or regular duty.  you cant argue with his career line.

Big Z on Cuban: "Plus, I can be signed by him. You know, I know he has the money for me. Hopefully he can buy the Cubs."

by kylejo on Aug 21, 2007 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And anyway you slice it
.254 .330.373, bad defense, terrible baserunning, and no run producing ability sucks.  

by cubsbak on Aug 21, 2007 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

im just glad
that i dont live in your negative, narrow-minded world.  i chose to look at a solid career line, you chose to look at just this season to date.  i chose to look at his numbers improving in the second half, you chose to look merely at his last 21 at bats.

thats this argument in a nutshell, like i said, we'll see how the season plays out and then argue about this in the off season.

Big Z on Cuban: "Plus, I can be signed by him. You know, I know he has the money for me. Hopefully he can buy the Cubs."

by kylejo on Aug 21, 2007 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right
I think Murton sucks because I'm negative and narrow-minded.  It has nothing to do with his lousy hitting, fielding, and baserunning.  It's because I'm negative and narrow-minded.  You've hit the nail on the head this time.

by cubsbak on Aug 21, 2007 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dude why do you bother???
I agree with you that he is a valuable part of the team.  No he is not an all star but the guy has shown the potential to hit for power, average, and to be a fair OF (not great defensively).  

Cubsbak's argument is really just that, an argument for the sake of arguing.  He says that he has proven over 21 games that he "sucks" when there are other players who seem to escape his wrath that hit below .200 or barely above .200 (K. Hill before today).

And before he jumps down my throat about he is a backup catcher and doesn't play enough to judge that well, let's remember "21 at bats".  Not saying he loves Hill but why doesn't he bitch and moan about him like he does about Murton (who BTW is only filling in full time until Soriano is back it would appear)?

because people like us do not defend Hill and therefore will not partake in a debate (a pointless on I might add) regarding worth and value.

point is, Murton, IMO, has not been bad.  he has shown power, he takes pitches, he makes contact and there are many situations where contact may be all the Cubs need from him (ie. sac fly, GB out/RBI).  The guy is doing his job, for the most part and people like Cubsbak will never see that.

I trust that Lou has enough experience to know who needs to be out there and who needs to be on the bench.

MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 21, 2007 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that was directed at
Kylejo BTW.
MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 21, 2007 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i know, i know
ive tried to just end the argument, but cubsbak will just continue it with another worthless argument that just begs to be responded to.

no one is saying murton is the next billy williams but he's filled in fine in his role.  theres no reason to just go out and bash a player because hes not an all star, yet, some here just love to hate murton.  arent you guys supposed to be cubs fans?  we're in first place, yet all you can do is say "see! look, he just got LUCKY in those three series in a row where he was playing well.  HA! murton sucks! this is so much fun!!!"

Big Z on Cuban: "Plus, I can be signed by him. You know, I know he has the money for me. Hopefully he can buy the Cubs."

by kylejo on Aug 21, 2007 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah I know.
The arguments seem to be that of a young child...craftily contructed and then altered to support only their point of view.

Mention small sample sizes and he will respond by sayingthe whole career numbers suck....then he will mention part time play and the "pointless games" that are "easier to get a hit in" and you will point out nearly full time play last season and he will regress back to this season and disregard his own contradictions.

Bottom line, if you want to partake in an argument like this, go find some 7 year old and tell him Spongebob Squarepants shouldn't be able to talk because a sponge has no lungs.

MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 21, 2007 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

More cheap shots
Yes, I'm a 7 year old child.  That's why I think Murton sucks.  Because I'm 7.  Nicely argued.

by cubsbak on Aug 21, 2007 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

hmm
I think jumping on people for pointing out faults with Murton and not recognizing your own homerism attitude with regards to him is also a bit of a problem.

Murton isn't as terrible as we all make him out to be, sure, but he's also not the powerhouse second half ginger that you try to make him out to be. He's somewhere inbetween, right in the area of a serviceable 4th outfielder.

by hawkeyenation on Aug 21, 2007 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed
He's a 4th outfielder-type, who shouldn't be counted on to start in left for a team with championship aspirations.

by cubsbak on Aug 21, 2007 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey, I never said
Murton shouldn't be playing.  As sad as it is, he's one of the three best outfielders on the team, at least until Floyd, Pagan, or Soriano get back.  

It's sort of funny.  You seem to think I enjoy this, but, frankly, I'm pretty sick of people like you taking cheap shots at me whenever I share my opinion about Murton.  Just because I'm unable to see all this value Matt Murton brings to the Cubs like you do, doesn't mean I have something against the guy or I like to argue.  I simply think he's not a very good baseball player.

by cubsbak on Aug 21, 2007 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

dude, are you kidding?
this whole thing started with this comment:

"Murton obviously isn't getting the job done.  Murton has pretty much been playing every day since he was brought up and appears to still suck.  Other than a few good games in two of the best hitters parks in the league (Colorado and Houston) he's been downright awful.  I wonder what excuse his supporters will dream up next."

haha, you are BEGGING people to respond to you, and people did.  how could you possibly say you are sick of this, when i end most of my posts with, "lets end this argument now and begin when the seasons over"

not only are you being nit-picky (take out those good games and he SUCKS! HA) and negative, you are being hypocritical.

Big Z on Cuban: "Plus, I can be signed by him. You know, I know he has the money for me. Hopefully he can buy the Cubs."

by kylejo on Aug 21, 2007 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sick of the
cheap shots.  You know, like calling someone insane, negative, narrow-minded, and a child for pointing out that Murton can't hit, field, drive in runs, or run the bases very well.  That's what I'm sick of.

by cubsbak on Aug 21, 2007 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually
I called you a child for your debate tactics, not the points you are TRYING to make...unsuccesfully I might add.
MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 21, 2007 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Most of this argument
is the result of extreme statements and stupid cheapshots by both sides.  Those kind of assinine statements only get people riled up and defensive so they can retort with more cheapshots.

Sadly, that kind of writting is all too common on this board.  And actual coherent discussion falls to the wayside.

by El Borto on Aug 21, 2007 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i thought
my Spongebob comment was actually quite witty and not at all cheap.
MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 21, 2007 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exceptions can be made
for cheapshots concerning the biological implications of talking oceanic invertebrates.

by El Borto on Aug 21, 2007 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you
this sounds fair to me El Borto!
MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 21, 2007 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

IIRC
You have also used encased meats for witty and entertaining ends....
this too is welcome

by El Borto on Aug 21, 2007 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really???
Wow, sometimes my wit and charm get away from me!  It sounds like that was an entertaining jeer as well.
MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 21, 2007 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stupid cheap shots on both sides?
Please give me an example of something I've written that you consider a stupid cheap shot.

by cubsbak on Aug 21, 2007 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd say that
your shots AT Murton qualify as stupid at least and antagonistic to those whom you KNOW feel you are too harsh and critical of him.
MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 21, 2007 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So it's somehow a cheap shot
to point out that Murton has been terrible this season because it might upset people like you?    Don't you think that's a little ridiculous?  Maybe you're being a tad oversensitive here.

I'm pretty sick of people taking shots at Jacque Jones (who's hitting 15 points higher than Murton and playing a nice center field), but I don't take cheap shots at everyone who shares a negative opinion of the guy.  

by cubsbak on Aug 21, 2007 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually...
I didn't even respond to your comments initially but becoime frustrated when I get to reading through your incessant moaning about Murton and saying he sucks SO often.

As for JJ, I can't remember when the guy got anything but praise from people here since he picked up his game so maybe you my friend, are the overly sensitive one whining about criticism delivered back a month or two.

At least we are annoyed with your CURRENT bashing of players whom we feel do not deserve it.

Your statements are vague, generalized, and do not appear to make any valid points IMO.

THIS, is what I am complaining about.

MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 21, 2007 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i am going to do the same as my counterpart
and say, I am done with this it is getting nowhere and I just get more frustrated with you.

Good day to you.

MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 21, 2007 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes
It can be frustrating to lose an argument.  

by cubsbak on Aug 21, 2007 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In response...
please see previous posts about you acting like a 7 year old.
MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 21, 2007 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What's this?
You said you weren't gonna respond anymore because you were frustrated with me.  Nice to have you back.  Keep those insults flying.

by cubsbak on Aug 21, 2007 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey
Lets have a last word fight!

Word!

by El Borto on Aug 21, 2007 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I KNOW EL BORTO!
I am trying and feeling strong and then something even more idiotic than the last statement is posted and I bite.

I am weak that way.  Props to kyejo (SP?) for not responding.

MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 21, 2007 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah
i had said my piece, and i think we all know matt murton doesnt "SUCK!" as cubsbak says, no murton isnt manny ramirez, nor will he ever be, but hes done an alright job this year, and the last month and a half will tell us the rest of the story.
Big Z on Cuban: "Plus, I can be signed by him. You know, I know he has the money for me. Hopefully he can buy the Cubs."

by kylejo on Aug 21, 2007 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Alright???
.254/.330/.373 with 15 RBI's and 25 runs scored is alright???  Maybe for a slick-fielding shortstop that would be alright, but for a corner outfielder who plays mediocre defense that is not alright.

by cubsbak on Aug 21, 2007 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A "slick fielding SS"
or how bout a 4th OF?  As we seem to agree on that he is an ok optin for a 4th OF.

Why are his numbers NOT ok for a 4th OF filling in the gap when our starting corner OF (who also hasn't exactly blow the walls off of the production tank this year) is in the DL?

MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 21, 2007 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

exactly
but the child wishes to continue his arguments, after we have gracefully bowed out of the fight.

lets see what he does the rest of the season cubsbak, we have an entire off-season to argue about who should play right field in 2008 and what the cubs should do with murton.

you obviously must have either magglio ordonez, or carl crawford in left to fill in for soriano, so no, murton will never live up to your standards.

Big Z on Cuban: "Plus, I can be signed by him. You know, I know he has the money for me. Hopefully he can buy the Cubs."

by kylejo on Aug 21, 2007 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dude...
Murton is better than both Mags AND Crawford!
MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 21, 2007 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stop already
My patience has just about run out.  Stop with the name calling.

by cubsbak on Aug 21, 2007 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't call you a name.
I didn;t even respond to you, I said Crawford and Mags SUCK in comparison to Murton...
MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 21, 2007 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh
and you're so very patient normally...
MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 21, 2007 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You need
to learn how to read a weblog.  I was responding to kylejo, not you.  Just because my entry is below yours doesn't mean it's in response to something you said.  The key is the indentation.  If my post is indented from yours that means it's in response.  You've gotten this confused before.

by cubsbak on Aug 21, 2007 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

well
i thought we established that the "i need to have the last word" posting was childish, so thats why i used the word child, to describe you continuing this argument, that i though i had peacefully ended about 4 hours ago.
Big Z on Cuban: "Plus, I can be signed by him. You know, I know he has the money for me. Hopefully he can buy the Cubs."

by kylejo on Aug 21, 2007 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But you were
the one who posted that "alright" comment, which I simply responded to.  It WAS over, until you posted that absurd comment.  Seems like you were the one trying to get the last word.

by cubsbak on Aug 21, 2007 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

however
my post was in response to our hebrew national loving friend here, not to you, so that was not an attempt to get a last word.  

like ive said before, i have nothing against you, it just seems that when we argue our personalities clash, and thats why i tried to end this whole worthless line of posts a while ago.

Big Z on Cuban: "Plus, I can be signed by him. You know, I know he has the money for me. Hopefully he can buy the Cubs."

by kylejo on Aug 22, 2007 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bullcrap
You called me out specifically in your post.  You said "we all know matt murton doesnt "SUCK!" as cubsbak says."  That was begging for a response from me.  And now you're responding again.  If you really want to end the argument, stop posting.  Don't say something stupid followed by "I'm ending this."  

by cubsbak on Aug 22, 2007 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

goodness my man
i was trying to explain to you that i am not calling you out or have anything against you.  your just all riled up, i dont get it.  and saying "we all know matt murton doesnt "SUCK!" is not a statement begging for a response, its a statement of fact.  if matt murton truly "sucked" to the definition of the word, he would not be on a major league team, with a career .291 avg.  

seriously im done now, i thought it would be nice to smooth things out, obviously that didnt work out.

Big Z on Cuban: "Plus, I can be signed by him. You know, I know he has the money for me. Hopefully he can buy the Cubs."

by kylejo on Aug 22, 2007 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Once again
You say something stupid followed by "I'm done now."  You need to look up the difference between opinion and fact.  A corner outfielder who hits .254 with no run-production and bad defense sucks.  I'm sorry you don't understand that.  And BTW, if the Cubs were healthier right now, Murton wouldn't be on a major league team.

by cubsbak on Aug 22, 2007 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Look around the league
How many outfielders are there who are this bad?  Not many.  Even 4th outfielders have at least one skill that is above average that they can use to help a team win.  They can run the bases well, or play very good defense, or hit the ball out of the ballpark.  As far as I can tell, Murton doesn't do anything all that well, except supposedly work deep counts and get on base.  But if he's such a contact hitter with such a good eye, why has he struck out more times than he's walked?  And why is his OBP only .330?  The only reason he's playing is because the Cubs outfield has been devastated by injury.  I expect him to be back in Iowa once Floyd, Pagan, and Soriano get healthy.    

by cubsbak on Aug 21, 2007 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting
so you are now claiming that you never said he was an alright 4th OF?

My nephews lie about these types of things too sometimes when I catch them contradicting themselves so don't feel bad.

"As far as I can tell, Murton doesn't do anything all that well, except supposedly work deep counts and get on base."

Even though you said supposedly, your comment completely negates all your annoying ranting above.  He doesn't have "one skill that can help the ballclub win"?

Last time I checked, working deep counts and getting on base, even if it is "supposed", is helping the team win.  But hey, maybe I am wrong about that too.

MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 21, 2007 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes
You're pretty much wrong about everything in this post, particularly your characterizations of what I've said.  

And cut the crap about your nephews.  It's getting really tiresome.

by cubsbak on Aug 21, 2007 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tell me if this is indented...
I am so lucky to have you to guide me through the online world.  Truly.

As for my nephews...I will cut nothing out.  You can dish it out but you sure can't take it can you???

If you want me to cut it out, then stop commenting to me.  

And don't talk about my nephews like that!  They are just acting their ages (cough cough).

MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 21, 2007 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So is Cubsbak
I love this team!!!!!

by sue369 on Aug 21, 2007 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That would explain a lot.
MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 21, 2007 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes
Because if you think Matt Murton is a bad baseball player you must be a child.  That's the only explanation!

by cubsbak on Aug 21, 2007 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No...
if you act childish, you must be a child.  Pretty simple actually...maybe you haven't touched on this yet in your 2nd grade class yet so I forgive you.
MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 21, 2007 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Even a second grader
can recognize that Matt Murton sucks.

by cubsbak on Aug 21, 2007 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great
Look who slithers out of her hole to spew more insults at me.  What a surprise.

by cubsbak on Aug 21, 2007 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I feel sorry
for you. You have this need for attention so you post ridiculous stuff on here knowing people will respond getting the attention you so desperately want.
I love this team!!!!!

by sue369 on Aug 21, 2007 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This from someone
who insults me nonstop whenever I post here.  Leave me alone.

by cubsbak on Aug 21, 2007 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are a real
piece of work. You responded to a post I made to someone else and insulted me. If you don't want me to respond then don't make comments on posts I make to others.
I love this team!!!!!

by sue369 on Aug 22, 2007 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your post
specifically insulted me by name.  You constantly do this.  Leave me alone.  I don't want attention from anybody, least of all you.  You are obviously a disturbed and pathetic person who feels the need to insult anyone who disagrees with her.  I want absolutely nothing to do with you and I sincerely wish that you would stop following me around this site and insulting me.

by cubsbak on Aug 22, 2007 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

wow
oooook.
Big Z on Cuban: "Plus, I can be signed by him. You know, I know he has the money for me. Hopefully he can buy the Cubs."

by kylejo on Aug 22, 2007 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

classic, here i go
responding to posts not meant for me, i honestly thought that was in response to my last post.  appologies.
Big Z on Cuban: "Plus, I can be signed by him. You know, I know he has the money for me. Hopefully he can buy the Cubs."

by kylejo on Aug 22, 2007 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe
disturbed and pathetic describes you. I'm not the one who gets in arguments all the time like you do. Seriously, go back and read the last three months posts and just see how many arguments you have been in.
I love this team!!!!!

by sue369 on Aug 22, 2007 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And you go back
and read how many pointless mean-spirited personal insults you've posted.  I do my best to avoid that kind of nonsense and keep things focused on baseball.  But my patience has run out with you.  I'm sick of you following me around this site and spewing your nasty, hateful comments.  I've tried to ignore your insults, but that doesn't seem to work.   You keep doing it.  If you don't agree with one of my opinions feel free to say so or ignore it, whatever.  But cut out the pointless nasty insults.  Nobody should have to be subjected to that kind of nonsense.  

by cubsbak on Aug 22, 2007 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

WOW!
This is craziness.  We should all leave it alone now I think because some people are taking things very peronally, even if it is playful ribbing.  And please, no one call ME out for the playful ribbing comment because I can only speak for myself but I use a lot of sarcasm and smart ass remarks to have fun with people but apparently, it is not received as playfully as I had hoped.

Sorry for offending people here and this is not that important of an issue to get all heated up the way we have.

MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 22, 2007 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dish it out?
I've never dished anything out.  I've never insulted you at all.  I've simply pointed out that Matt Murton isn't a very good baseball player, while you have repeatedly called me childish.  That pretty much sums up our exchange.

by cubsbak on Aug 21, 2007 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What a childish response!
MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 21, 2007 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I try to ignore my 7 year old nephews too
when they act like you are and it is quite difficult with them too.

I suppose there is something about listening and not responding to ignorance that is too hard for me.

Oh well, at least my nephews are REALLY 7 years old.

MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 21, 2007 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Keep 'em coming
After losing an argument it can be therapeutic to hurl childish insults.  So keep 'em coming!

by cubsbak on Aug 21, 2007 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

El Borto,
I prefer "Insert Last Word Here".
MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 21, 2007 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ugh..
I was soooo close to winning the last word competition.  

Now I guess I'll have to settle for second.

Wait a minute....

WORD!

by El Borto on Aug 21, 2007 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

OH SNAP!
you unknowingly took my last word!
MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 21, 2007 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Whatever
So pointing out Murton's terrible batting average this season, his terrible OPS, his terrible RBI numbers, his low number of runs scored, his terrible numbers with runners in scoring position, and his bad defense is somehow too vague, general, and invalid.  Whatever you say.

by cubsbak on Aug 21, 2007 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes...
whatever I say is correct.
MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 21, 2007 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Most of this argument
is the result of extreme statements and stupid cheapshots by both sides.  Those kind of assinine statements only get people riled up and defensive so they can retort with more cheapshots.

Sadly, that kind of writting is all too common on this board.  And actual coherent discussion falls to the wayside.

Welcome to the internet.

by Wreckard on Aug 21, 2007 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Blah blah blah to all this crap!
Yes because you ACT like a 7 year old is why no one should really be continuing to argue with you...NOT why you irrationally think that Murton is the worst player to step on the grass at Wrigley Field EVER.

As for your defenses, as always, "Yeah that's right i think Murton sucks cause i am a seven year old" could not possibly be more ironically perfect.

thank you for making my point!

Oh and PS...I never said he is anything more than a 4th OF either.  last I checked, we need one of those since Soriano is out.  But I am sure you will say something like "Yeah, well...my dad can beat up your dad".

MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 21, 2007 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I still say
Craig Monroe is a good pickup.
MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 21, 2007 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice moment yesterday
I had purchased a single ticket, the best I could get on the opening day of ticket sales, knowing I would be in town Monday.  I won't say where it was exactly, but the row right in front of us was one of the rows where the Cub wives and families sit.  In about the third inning, the Lee family came in: two older, tall gentlemen, a young woman, and a little girl.  They were still there for Derrek's home run.  It was nice to see his daughter (the impetus for Project 3000) cheer for her dad.
The call of the Cub fan, c. 1893: "one long, ravaged, derisive yell...a cyclonic whoop!"

by zambranofan on Aug 21, 2007 8:04 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

That is
really sweet that Jada got to cheer for her dad. Maybe his knowing she was there cheering for him helped hit that home run.
I love this team!!!!!

by sue369 on Aug 21, 2007 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hank White returns!
I'm going to have to fake some excitement here until the real article comes into play, but... no more Koyie Hill!

I can get behind this.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 21, 2007 9:37 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Whether or not you liked Hill...
... the Cubs were 23-13 when he played and 17-8 in games he started.

Yes, I know, small sample size, it wasn't all him, etc etc etc.

I'm not saying the Cubs had to keep him. Obviously, with Blanco returning, he had to go. I hope Hank White is ready to play, because he'll probably start Thursday's day game with Z pitching.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 21, 2007 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Big Z's turnaround
Happened when we dumped Barrett, and Hill started catching him.

Unlike Barrett, Hill could block a slider in the dirt... so Zambrano had confidence in throwing his nasty stuff again. Hill's catcher ERA = 3.02 (underqualified in # of starts). But, that's 2nd best in the Majors behind Josh Bard, 3.00

1-RUN GAMES = 16-19 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-7 | HOME = 33-31 | updated on 8/20

by SackMan on Aug 21, 2007 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm...
How the heck did Zambrano pitch so well from 2004-2006 when he threw to Barrett then?

And how did the Cubs pitching staff pitch better in '04 to Barrett than they did in '03 to Miller?

Catcher ERA is a BS stat - there are WAY too many uncontrollable variables.

by big_lowitzki on Aug 21, 2007 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then how the heck did Peavy's ERA
suddenly skyrocket when Barrett started catching him? As well as the entire San Diego staff... while the losses started piling up?

Then, they finally pull the plug on the Peavy-Barrett battery, and go with Peavy-Bard. And Peavy's ERA suddenly shrinks back down?

1-RUN GAMES = 16-19 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-7 | HOME = 33-31 | updated on 8/20

by SackMan on Aug 21, 2007 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What?
You ignored my questions...

I showed you examples of pitchers pitching better to Barrett than other catchers.  You can show me examples of pitchers pitching worse.

You are proving my point.

I didn't say that Barrett made pitchers better.  I just pointed out that there are numerous examples where pitchers pitched better to him.  Catcher ERA is a joke, and a worthless stat that doesn't tell us anything.

CERA is an incredibly volatile stat - it goes all all over the place from year to year.  Why did Jason Kendall have such a good CERA with the A's?  Because he had a damn good pitching staff throwing to him.  

Has the Tigers staff struggled this year because Pudge sucks?

What about the Cardinals staff?  They sucked most of the year... is that because Molina sucks?

by big_lowitzki on Aug 21, 2007 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

anyone
see on the four-letter network how hot the cards still are just because they won 1 game out of this series. i hate how the pump certain stories up.

by tbizzle83 on Aug 21, 2007 10:10 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

re: anyone
Yep, it's an easy story arc to latch onto and the Eastern Seaboard Sports Network is more than happy to cast a couple glances over St. Louis way to pump up the "world champion" Cardinals.

Now my question: Is anyone else sick of hearing about Rick Ankiel? I know I am. Yeah, yeah -- it's a great comeback story, blahblahblah. Just another instance of the Cards drawing the ace when seemingly every other team in the league winds up with a three of clubs at best.

You know you're not in high finance/Considering getting secondhand underpants

by dat cubfan daver on Aug 21, 2007 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol
yes i agree. i liked the story the 1st couple of days but its like they hate on chicago. i thought it was funny how we win 2 of 3 and steve phillips says they were the hottest team of the weekend.

by tbizzle83 on Aug 21, 2007 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm just glad
that the Ankiel show is out of town.  It's funny to read headlines about how hot the Cards are and how they closed the gap when they lost ground for the series.
Distracted. That's a funny word. I wonder if anyone ever gets tracted.

by CyberCyclist on Aug 21, 2007 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I totally agree...
...I just don't get it. Nobody has more fans than the Cubs but they get NO PLAY on ESPN. Everybody was afraid to criticize Baker the last couple of years because he has buddies there.

Maybe we should just win the Series and see what they say...

by Mapmaker on Aug 21, 2007 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Its silly...
ESPN is awful.

The 'perfect throw' by Rick Vaughn i mean Rick Ankiel was not so perfect, and an absolutely dumb base running mistake on Theriots part made it look better than it was.  But there was no mention of that.

Now La Russa is up for coach of the year, and Pujols is now back in the MVP race.  Give me a break.

They are still streaking even though they lost 2 of 3 to the first place team????  Seriously.

At least Joe Morgan gave us some credit on his chat this morning saying that we have the best chance to win the division...kinda shocked at that.

by HIGGY on Aug 21, 2007 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lincecum tonight, Zito tomorrow....
equals 0-2 for us.

I'm usually an optimist, but 1-2 in SF may be our best result.  

I'll be a believer once we beat Capuano

by cubbie08 on Aug 21, 2007 11:31 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

So what?
We are going to win the SF series 2-1 (at least. I won't be surprised if we sweep them).

by cubsnlinux on Aug 21, 2007 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope you're right....
but Lincecum is nails.  We saw what he could do last month.  Zito stinks, but just have a bad feeling his 'A' stuff will show up just like it did at Wrigley.  
I'll be a believer once we beat Capuano

by cubbie08 on Aug 21, 2007 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well - he had 5 BB's
and gave up a run on 2 hits in 6 last time against the Cubs in July.

He is NOT Jamie Moyer!

It is AUGUST, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Aug 21, 2007 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lincecum=Rich Harden
Both have filthy, filthy stuff, but little guys that throw that hard (Roy Oswalt being the possible exception, as Billy Wagner is a closer and doesn't have to throw 100 pitches in a month, let alone in one game) with that kind of a violent motion seldom hold up. His velocity is already down 4-5 MPH and he's walking guys (though he only walked 1 in each of his last 2 starts). He's a solid young pitcher, but there's no reason he should be penciled in as a win for the Giants.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Aug 21, 2007 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know he's a lefty
But have you seen Zito pitch this year? He's been atrocious. Lincecum has been great since the break but he hasn't been as dominant as, say, Bedard. To say we automatically start off with two straight losses isn't really smart. Like most series, we should expect to take at least 2/3 and be disappointed otherwise. This isn't last year's club, we have actual talent.

I just choked on my optimism.

by hawkeyenation on Aug 21, 2007 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Zito vs. Hill tomorrow....
... interesting matchup, wouldn't you say? Very similar pitching styles.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 21, 2007 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Could be...
They are essentially the same pitchers, with Hill throwing a bit harder. I think I would take Hill in that matchup, and not just because I'm a Cubs fan (obviously). Zito relies too much on being a crafty lefy, which, of course, is a problem when you have no control. I think the fact Hill has effective fastball to go with the Uncle Charlie really puts him leaps and bounds ahead of Zito.

And of course, I must end by saying Zito will throw a no hitter now that I crapped all over him. Whether he pitches well or not, I think we can all agree that contract is the thing GMs have nightmares about.

by hawkeyenation on Aug 21, 2007 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes I have seen Zito pitch this year....
Once....against us.  He was good.  I know he's been bad this year, but our track record against lefties is not good, plus he was great against us earlier in the year.

Yes, I'll be disappointed not winning 2 of 3, I'm just being realistic in saying we have our hands full w/ Lincecum & Zito---we could certainly start off 0-2  (I really hope not).

I'll be a believer once we beat Capuano

by cubbie08 on Aug 21, 2007 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think...
that more realistic would be 1-1. Zito was decent against us, sure, but he is not even on the same level as Lincecum. Both of them have major control problems, and chances are we will see one, hopefully both, of them have some type of bad outing. I don't think it's too unrealistic to expect us to at worst come out of those first two games at 1-1. Anything less would be a big disappointment. So basically 0-2 would be a real punch in the bad parts.

by hawkeyenation on Aug 21, 2007 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Patience at the plate will be key...
b/c they both do have major control concerns.

I don't see Mil winning their next 2 in AZ, especially against Webb tomorrow, so it'd be nice to take advantage of that.

I'll be a believer once we beat Capuano

by cubbie08 on Aug 21, 2007 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Zito is terrible this year
and Lincecum is very hittable.  The Giants offense is much worse than ours and Marquis and Hill are good pitchers.  Thank God they don't play the games on paper or in your mind!

by IllinoisCubs on Aug 21, 2007 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

nice to see Hank White back...
MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 21, 2007 11:49 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Sad.....
but true. I had a better chance against a Major League offspeed pitch than Mr. Hill.

by hawkeyenation on Aug 21, 2007 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Matt Murton needs
to pick it up now or he'll be joining Fontenot on the bench.

Mr. One-Handed-Catch

It is AUGUST, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Aug 21, 2007 12:29 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

......move along......
No argument to start here. Please. I don't want another one. I can't take it anymore.....

by hawkeyenation on Aug 21, 2007 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Once Cliffy is ready
I wouldn't be shocked to see a Floyd-Jones-Ward OF.
Tinker to Evers to Chance.

by Matt Allison on Aug 21, 2007 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Way off topic...
just checked out BrewCrewBall and found a very entertaining diary posted by San Diego SJM.  The responses are so frustrating (from Jeff no less) to a basic observation about the Reds. Of course I do not get the pleasure of responding to their posts but some of you may be interested in the snide remarks made by them over there.

For a site that promotes all that stat/pie chart crap (seemingly intellectual content), their ideas and statements are quite childish and ridiculous.  As SDSJM stated there, if you say anything other than something they agree with (mainly, the Brewers are the BEST and will win it all), youare called a troll and perhaps even banned like I was.

SDSJM and BeerCub, I do not know how you keep your cool over there!

MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 21, 2007 12:45 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I read that too
For all the statiness that goes on over there, they can't admit that the Reds have somewhat salvaged a horid start.  SDMJ made a simple, valid point and they jumped all over him.

by El Borto on Aug 21, 2007 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

whoops
SDMJ=SDSJM
my bad

by El Borto on Aug 21, 2007 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

of course we can
the Reds have somewhat salvaged a horrid start. there, i said it. in fact, i can say it about the cubs too. the Cubs have salvaged a horrid start.

what a silly generalization you just made. any brewer fan can see that the reds have been playing winning ball as of late, and yet they still have the most losses in the NL.

the objections are on another level entirely. it's foolish to look at the results over a select period of time and make generalizations about the team. and it's rude to do it with the express purpose of antagonizing. that was classic trolling by that poster.

by jacob on Aug 21, 2007 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cmon jacob
are you really gonna defend the sensitive nature of Jeff and his blog?  Anything at all that doesn't make them feel better about the Brewers is "trolling" and he BANS people.

You don't strike me as an unreasonably sensitive person.

MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 21, 2007 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sounds like
their fans are like their team: can't take the heat.
Tinker to Evers to Chance.

by Matt Allison on Aug 21, 2007 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

the other bcb
I've read their site a few times over the course of the seson just to see what their view is on the events of the summer. Never did bother to set up an account though. Really don't care to talk to them all that much.
AC 00 00 00 - BELIEVE

by mike on Aug 21, 2007 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can't type
seson = season
AC 00 00 00 - BELIEVE

by mike on Aug 21, 2007 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice!
MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 21, 2007 12:58 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It's all yours azweber9
And for your troubles and persistence you've earned the covented Matt Murton Copper Bat award.  Not all that great, but something you wouldn't want to be hit on the head with.

by El Borto on Aug 21, 2007 1:31 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd like to thank...
the academy, my mother and father who stuck by me the whole way.  I'd like to thank my high school friends and their families, and of course, kylejo...without whom, none of this would have been possible!

(This was actually my Josh Vitters, 7th inning stretch speech reenactment)

MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 21, 2007 1:46 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Congrats
and don't ever let up. Please!
I love this team!!!!!

by sue369 on Aug 21, 2007 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Baseruning 101
101 A - Soriano dont try to go to 3rd when the single is hit in front of you.

101 B - Theroit never make the 1st out of an inning getting thrown out at 3rd base.

Theroit has a pass in my book due to his energy and spirit.

Soriano just aint that smart.

Being from CT I went to many NYY games and watched AS in the on deck circle. He thinks he's Derek Jeter flashing winks at the ladies.

Focus and play smart baseball !!! Thats what your paid $$$ to do.

just my 2 cents

by parrotinct on Aug 21, 2007 2:12 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

"Energy and Sprit"
Hmmm...

So Theriot gets a pass for being stupid, because he has a lot of "energy and spirit."

But Soriano doesn't get a pass for being stupid, even though he is well known around baseball for his "energy and spirit."

I see...

by big_lowitzki on Aug 21, 2007 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Energy & Spirit
I dont think AS should get a pass.

Theriot has shown after his call up last year and this year that he goes all out every innnig of ever game

Except for a good 2 week period what has AS done ??? . I (we) dont care about the past with AS. Its about this year and beyond

I (we all) just wished he stopped at 2nd that Sunday night. Baserunning 101

by parrotinct on Aug 21, 2007 3:21 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

What?!?!
Soriano goes all out every inning of every game too.

Are you really questioning Soriano's effort?  You may be the first...

As for what has Soriano done, compared to Theriot?  That is kinda funny.  Lets look:

Soriano: .297/.336/.511, 18/23 SBs, 18 HR, 74 R
Theriot: .290/.352/.376, 22/26 SBs, 3 HR, 68 R

Go ahead and take Theriot.  

I'll take Soriano.

Soriano hasn't had a great year - but he hasn't had a terrible year either.  And he has had some injury issues that have hampered his play.

But to claim that Soriano has less than desired effort is pretty silly.  That is one area where you will rarely, if ever, see Soriano get questioned.   

by big_lowitzki on Aug 21, 2007 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Further...
Working hard does not excuse stupidity.  

Both Soriano and Theriot hustle every day, every game.

And both have made some stupid decisions.

And neither of them should get a pass for it.

by big_lowitzki on Aug 21, 2007 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Any idea
if Z is gonna just wait for his next scheduled start?  I heard a lot about him volunteering to move around after Sunday night, but nothing since then...

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 21, 2007 3:34 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

He is starting on Thursday,
one day before his next scheduled start should have been.
There are 3 things in my life which I really love: God, family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit.

by cubsfan4life on Aug 21, 2007 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think he
starts Thursday.
I love this team!!!!!

by sue369 on Aug 21, 2007 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stupid west coast
Going to be a long night at the bar.  Game needs to start already

by GoCubbies34 on Aug 21, 2007 4:30 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

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