The Week Of The Pitcher
SAN FRANCISCO -- Each of the games in this three-game series by the Bay featured outstanding starting pitching. Tuesday, it was Jason Marquis and Tim Lincecum. Last night, curveballers Rich Hill and Barry Zito matched nearly pitch-for-pitch for seven-plus innings.
And today, the Giants' Matt Cain and Carlos Zambrano...
Oh, wait. Someone forgot to tell Carlos he was supposed to pick up where he left off during the rainout on Sunday.
Matt Cain baffled Cub hitters for seven innings, and hit a two-run homer, and the Giants beat the Cubs 4-1, salvaging one game. It doesn't feel as good as two out of three should, because given that your best pitcher is on the mound and you've already won the first two games, you should sweep.
Oh, and read the above paragraph again. Matt Cain hit a two-run homer. What is up with THAT? Cain had a .103 lifetime average coming into this game (and .068 this year, although he also homered two weeks ago vs. the Nationals). So what on Earth is Z doing, walking him in the fourth inning with two out (a walk that loaded the bases and led to two runs when Dave Roberts singled)? Cain had drawn exactly two walks in 132 major league plate appearances before today. And then compounding the mistake by serving him a fat pitch in his next at-bat?
I had a bad feeling about this game when Daryle Ward, who had doubled leading off the second inning, got picked off.
If you didn't see or hear about the game till now, you're shaking your head, too. Daryle Ward got picked off?!?!?!11 We are talking about a man who has had seven career stolen base attempts and been caught six times. What on Earth is he doing straying that far from second base? Naturally, Mark DeRosa followed with a walk, and one out later, Mike Fontenot's double likely would have scored two runs and given the Cubs the lead and maybe put Cain on the ropes. Instead, DeRosa had to hold at third, and Carlos Zambrano, who's not a bad hitter, took three swings, and with each one tried to hit a 900-foot home run, and naturally, struck out.
That was really the only threat the Cubs had, although they did score a run on Jason Kendall's double, followed by Fontenot's single, his second hit of the game. Matt Murton, who is likely to see much less playing time with the acquisition of Craig Monroe from the Tigers, (more on this a little later) then had a horrendous at-bat, swinging at the first pitch and hitting into a double play. Naturally, Ryan Theriot then poked another double into the RF corner; without the DP, that would have scored another run. Instead, Theriot was stranded when Jacque Jones also swung at the first pitch (I was kind of surprised Bruce Bochy didn't go to Steve Kline to face Jones, but it didn't matter, as it turned out) and grounded out.
Can someone please review with this ballclub the value of working the count? The only guy who seems to be doing this on a regular basis is Kendall.
A few props, at least, to the bullpen, today consisting of Scott Eyre, Kerry Wood and Bob Howry, who threw 2.2 scoreless innings, allowing two hits and striking out three, in a fruitless attempt to help the Cubs catch up. Wood was hitting 95 on the stadium radar gun, at least, and looked sharp, though my friend Mark, in from Gilroy, sitting near the Cubs bullpen, texted me to say, "Wood looks positively scrawny these days". It's not easy to tell from a distance, but he's clearly lost a LOT of weight. Doesn't seem to have affected his ability to throw hard, though.
Mark (not that Mark, my son Mark) and I sat 30 rows directly behind the plate today (and I had a garlic chicken sandwich from one of the concession stands which was actually quite good), right in front of the press box where I saw Bruce Miles sitting in the front row, so I went by to say hi. He's the one who told me of the Monroe acquisition -- also, that Buck Coats is going to be DFA'd to make room on the 40-man roster. I presume Jake Fox will be optioned to Iowa to make room.
Basically, this is a move to get a more experienced major league hitter and a better outfielder on the roster than Fox. I assume Monroe (who Jim Hendry has been after for quite some time -- he tried to trade for him in the 2005-06 offseason at the time he also was pursuing Jacque Jones) will play vs. all LHP, either in LF until Alfonso Soriano returns or in RF after Soriano does come back. Monroe had a terrible year for the Tigers, hitting only .222/.264/.373 and striking out 94 times in 372 AB, and this after hitting 28 HR with 92 RBI for last year's AL champs. However, in 2007 he is hitting .302/.317/.542 in 96 AB vs. LHP, and in his career he's a .277/.321/.501 hitter vs. LHP, with 35 HR and 49 doubles in 714 AB. Yes, he'll strike out a ton, but he does hit with power and is a decent outfielder who can play all three OF positions (probably best in RF, though).
I received quite a few emails from some of you who wanted to try to meet up during this series. It just wasn't feasible given my time schedule with my kids here... so, perhaps next time, or if any of you make it to Chicago later in the year.
Anyway, the Cubs will maintain first place till tomorrow, as the Brewers have the day off, and if they can go into Phoenix (a place where they've never played that well) and take two of three again, that will be a road trip well played.
And someone please remind Z to get some rest? He's going to have to be on his "A" game next Wednesday against the Brewers.
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90 comments
Comments
Hanley Ramirez
by cubsnlinux on Aug 23, 2007 7:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Aces?
by Saratoga on Aug 23, 2007 7:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Depending upon the situation he needs to shorten his swing and try to put the ball in play. I have seen him take bigger hacks then he did anytime before this season. One of these days he might just hurt his wrist trying to hit a pitch 100 miles.
by cubsnlinux on Aug 23, 2007 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where was the pitching coach after walk #2?
Z is a head case, he needs special attention. I'm not sure he can be helped sometime. It's maddening how good he can be and how bad he can be.
by blackhawk24 on Aug 23, 2007 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Buck, we hardly knew ye
Am sure another team is going to pick him up or claim him, however that works....
Love the Monroe acquisition for basically nothing....but Cubs biggest off-season remains an OF with some sock to play RF regularly and PRODUCE, something they've lacked since Sammy (Burnitz and Jones just OK in this role).
by writerinwrigley on Aug 23, 2007 7:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
seating help at Wrigley.
thanks
by cozmotaylor on Aug 23, 2007 7:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Depending on how far across the row you are
by blackhawk24 on Aug 23, 2007 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You should be able to move
by jessica on Aug 23, 2007 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obstructed view
by 1060 W Addison on Aug 23, 2007 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
good comment Al
The Murton and Jones 1st pitch swinging when the pitcher was not yet on the ropes was totally unnecessary.
by blackhawk24 on Aug 23, 2007 7:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Lately there has been too much first pitch swinging from almost everyone.
by cubsnlinux on Aug 23, 2007 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd almost like to know....
by blackhawk24 on Aug 23, 2007 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like having a color guy
I was unhappy when the players pressured the organization to get rid of Stone when he was being honest in his calls. Stone is knowledgeable and gave great color particularly on how pitchers worked a game. These guys should not be so thin-skinned when the criticism is fair and honest.
by LAcarl519 on Aug 23, 2007 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As much as I like Stoney...
It's funny, there's an audio clip on ESPNradio1000.com that runs as a commercial for Mac, Jurko and Harry. It has a couple clips from a BB interview. Mac asks BB as a manage about Fonzie in his leadoff role and this during the time Fonzie was hot. BB goes on to reply that Fonzie is doing a good job in the leadoff position now but meantions that if he were manager, Fonzies performance a couple weeks earlier than that would not have warranted a leadoff role. Again totally true, to the point and not arrogant.
by blackhawk24 on Aug 23, 2007 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will not argue about
by LAcarl519 on Aug 23, 2007 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bob has improved greatly
But there were few better things in baseball than listening to Stoney say, "If he throws this, he'll get him," and then watch it happen.
by lancaster99 on Aug 23, 2007 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stoney
by shawonfan on Aug 23, 2007 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's try this again, shall we
Let's see if I get it right this time:
by rob9802 on Aug 24, 2007 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh my
by GoCubbies34 on Aug 24, 2007 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
mlb.com has the cardinal feed for the game
Anyway, it's 4-1 now in the 5th inning, and Reyes has 96 pitches.
I can't wait till they're in Atlanta over the weekend.
by zevkalman on Aug 23, 2007 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One of the Hrabosky?
Hey, Atl visits the Birds this weekend. Anyhow, if the Braves and Cubs both take 2 of 3, I'd be happy. Let's see how Lou plays Monroe. Hope they can catch lightning in a bottle like Kendall.
by blackhawk24 on Aug 23, 2007 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I promised Al
If I'm going to keep that promise, then I can't listen to Hrabosky. My head might explode.
by lancaster99 on Aug 23, 2007 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reyes in the house!
by shawonfan on Aug 23, 2007 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
pinch hit HR--Marlins 7-1
by zevkalman on Aug 23, 2007 9:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Now 8-1 Marlins
by zevkalman on Aug 23, 2007 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh yes, TLR's sunglasses...
by LAcarl519 on Aug 23, 2007 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's just hiding .....
by iluvryno on Aug 24, 2007 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LMAOL
by Fraggin Judge on Aug 24, 2007 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with
Monroe is a good pick up. And Hey "Z", lets go, stop walking guys, especially .067 Matt Cain.
by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Aug 23, 2007 10:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
another trade?
by drodd on Aug 23, 2007 10:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Now
phat
by phatass on Aug 24, 2007 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
interesting....another tweak
A) Right handed OF'er with power and ability to play RF....(DeRosa in the OF)...Monroe (how good an answer will be determined, but he is better than Murton & Fox),
B) Long reliever; Cubs have gone the entire year without a real long reliever, but acquiring one with experience and effectiveness would allow the Cubs to go with as less as six relievers on the playoff roster----meaning that they might go with 10 no more 11 pitchers....implying who might be out....Pignatiello, (of course), Wood? (probably, he takes too long to warm up and only goes one inning and not consecutive games), Marshall(?) if they go with 10 pitchers and also have a long reliever.
C) Utility SS: Since the trade of Izturis the Cubs have gambled that Cedeno could hit .220 when called upon...that has not worked out well. Acquiring a bona fide utility SS would go far in completing the roster.
by Ivy Walls on Aug 24, 2007 12:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hate to see Murton go
Murton will end up having a pretty decent major league career, I suspect. It may not be with the Cubs.
Fox needs some work. There's really no way of knowing how well he will end up playing. So far, he hasn't gotten the job done.
I don't have too many problems with our infield, really. Theriot's just been great.
With DeRosa I'm not sure we need another utility guy.
I guess they don't have a backup SS.
Another right-handed hitter with some pop could help. I hope Monroe can do this. It's not so much the OF work that I've had a problem with. We need somebody who can hit the ball, especially off the bench. Although I don't know that this team is that bad off in this regard. They're not great, but not awful.
It's hard to figure "clutch" but one more guy good in the clutch seems important.
phat
by phatass on Aug 24, 2007 1:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh
I'm not sure who was available in the off-season, but looking back it seems a middle-reliever would have really helped, moreso than any other position.
phat
by phatass on Aug 24, 2007 1:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Monroe shows any pop
by BigJohnAZ on Aug 23, 2007 11:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Monroe's a major upgrade over Murton
by CubFaninCA on Aug 23, 2007 11:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
"Major" is pushing it.
I am not a Murton "hater" as I have been accused. That is BS.
He's - "eh".
Not good - not pathetic. A tad below average...
HE DID hit 5 Post-Season HR's for Detroit - so at least he has pop...
by TheEman on Aug 24, 2007 12:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Murton's that bad
by CubFaninCA on Aug 24, 2007 1:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"5 Post-Season HR's"
But, so far the rest of this year has been worse than Murton's.
by TheEman on Aug 24, 2007 12:15 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Geovany Soto's 2HR night ... PLEASE CALL HIM UP!!!
Dear Cubs Front Office (knowing full well that the purveyors of this site don't have such power),
Geovany Soto went 3 for 3 tonight with TWO homers, 3 RBI and a walk. OMG, you guys! He's hitting .362 with 23 homeruns! Dude is awesome, but we all know that you couldn't possibly use his .428 OBP either.
Call him up, puhlease! We don't want to see him anymore. We're tired of chasing down his homeruns hit into the Des Moines River.
Signed,
The State of Iowa
by IowaCubs- on Aug 24, 2007 2:14 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
he had horrible
by blueapple on Aug 24, 2007 2:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He'll be up on September 1
by Invalid User on Aug 24, 2007 7:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Expanded Rosters not enough for Soto
I've watched him for three years in Des Moines. 2005 he was twitchy, almost seemed to pull everything. 2006 was a nice turnaround, but he tried to be too cute with the ball, almost aiming for the RCF gap resulting in lots of K's and groundouts. This year, he seems to have found his swing and maturity, allowing his wrists to follow his hips, allowing for more line drives and power.
It's been a pleasure to watch him mature, but now I'm sick of seeing him. Let's get him on the playoff roster!
by IowaCubs- on Aug 24, 2007 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Careful
by gary varsho on Aug 24, 2007 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Classy Cardinals
God, I hate LaRussa. He is such a hypocrite on these matters.
by lancaster99 on Aug 24, 2007 7:33 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Z's Arm Angle
by lilkimmer77 on Aug 24, 2007 7:43 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Pitching (Coach) Blues
No matter how they are handled the pitching staff must shoulder much of the blame though, too. Watching Z walk the pitcher Cain with 2 outs yesterday was agonizing and simply should not happen when the staff "ace" is on the mound. Cripes, it's bad enough when Marquis does it (seems to be one of his trademarks).
Overall, our pitchers seem to have difficulty getting the 3rd strike and 3rd out -- which leads to all kinds of problems. Anybody out there have any suggestions on why our staff has so much trouble finishing off hitters and innings??
by wrigley1 on Aug 24, 2007 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sometimes...
It is still really tough to sweep a team, especially in their home park. The odds were, frankly, against the Cubs yesterday, even with Z on the mound.
Zambrano still only gave up 4 runs, and might have given up fewer if he had an outfield that can play defense.
The real culprit is still the offense.
by lancaster99 on Aug 24, 2007 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In Zambrano's defence
by BlueW on Aug 24, 2007 8:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
How about..
by lancaster99 on Aug 24, 2007 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
working the count
The cubs are hitting .358/.359/.551 on the first pitch. After taking the first pitch for a strike they are hitting .235/.273/.334 (wow!)
While for the casual fan the aesthetics of taking the first pitch seem to be more sportingly elegant, the Cubs are much better off hacking at first pitch strikes. In fact, 21 of the teams homeruns have been hit on the first pitch and no more than 15 have been hit in any other count.
by jacob on Aug 24, 2007 9:09 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I believe in volleyball
Great stat work!
by lancaster99 on Aug 24, 2007 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How do those numbers compare to other teams?
by Al on Aug 24, 2007 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about after a first pitch ball?
by cubsirishkillme on Aug 24, 2007 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
after 1-0
by jacob on Aug 24, 2007 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not quite right, is it?
ON a 1-0 count, they are hitting .352/.348/.579
Wait, how can an on-base percentage be LOWER than a batting average?
Are they being thrown out trying to stretch a single into a double that many times? And do you get nothing on your OBP when you get thrown out trying to take too many bases?
Also, on a 3-0 count, they have a .000 BA and a .946 OBP.
So, they either walk (which they've done 105 out of 111 tims) or make an out. They have NO hits on 3-0.
by lancaster99 on Aug 24, 2007 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's right
sacrifices count as plate appearances but not ABs.
if you have three plate appearances, one hit, one sacrifice fly, and one strikeout, you'd be 1/2 on the day, batting average would be .500, but your OBP is .333.
by jacob on Aug 24, 2007 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Got it
But there is a difference between ON 1-0 count and AFTER 1-0 count.
Just checked. Of the contending teams, only the Red Sox and Angels have the highest chunk of their RBIs and HRs coming on counts other than 0-0.
by lancaster99 on Aug 24, 2007 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am one
I actually feel that takinga irst pitch, dead center strike is quite frustrating and swings momentum the wrong way. Borderline pitches and clear balls, absolutely but I HATE when someone goes up there with their bat in their shoulder and is obviously gonna pass.
by Kinky Reggae on Aug 24, 2007 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
cubs
In the NL this year 12.4% of plate appearances end on the first pitch (the cubs 13% is actually 12.56).
by jacob on Aug 24, 2007 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I
by Kinky Reggae on Aug 24, 2007 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
point
by jacob on Aug 24, 2007 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So
I would have to agree...look at that, sweep away all that stat talk and you didn;t actually annoy me that much!
:)
by Kinky Reggae on Aug 24, 2007 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
While for the casual statistician
by BlueSox on Aug 24, 2007 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
those
they are an account of what has happened when cubs hitters have gone up there hacking at the first pitch.
apologies to anyone who tried to read more into the numbers than what they are.
by jacob on Aug 24, 2007 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are the one claiming to answer Al's
You are the one trying to read more into the numbers than what they are.
I am saying the exact opposite: There is more to the answer to Al's question than the numbers you posted.
by BlueSox on Aug 24, 2007 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're right
by jacob on Aug 24, 2007 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's one -
by BlueSox on Aug 24, 2007 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm not sure i understand
i'm wondering how you would've written my initial comment differently to say that, without, as you say, "trying to read more into the numbers than what they are."
Your questions are good ones, but i don't have the data to answer it. There have been, however, a few excellent studies about pitch-by-pitch hitting penned by far smarter men than I. I can't point some out if you are interested.
by jacob on Aug 24, 2007 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was your reference
by BlueSox on Aug 24, 2007 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
can't sometimes is can
That should read: I can point some out if you are interested.
by jacob on Aug 24, 2007 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reading this whole thread...
So -- what's the point of this other than trolling? Sounds like the Cubs do just about what everyone else does. My point stands -- being patient, in general, helps ballclubs' offense.
by Al on Aug 24, 2007 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
by BlueSox on Aug 24, 2007 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh, i get it.
What I'm saying there with those words is that conventional wisdom says that taking the first pitch for a strike is a Good Thing. But for us baseball fanatics we know that "conventional wisdom" or using my language- the casual fan's perspective of the game- is not always correct. It is decidedly NOT true that taking the first pitch for a strike is a Good Thing, sometimes it is, sometimes it is not.
Did that help clear it up?
by jacob on Aug 24, 2007 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
by BlueSox on Aug 24, 2007 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They also...
The Cubs have 555 RBIs as a team. 88 of them came on first pitch swings. That's the highest for any count. (Just below is 1-1, with 84 RBIs.)
21 of the Cubs' 102 homers - again, the highest percentage -- have been on first pitches.
The highest percentage of hits, doubles, sac flies and yes, ground into double plays, have come on the first pitch.
Mostly good things happen to the Cubs on the first pitch.
by lancaster99 on Aug 24, 2007 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
First strike. Not first pitch.
Of course, this is what most players try to do. That is why there is so much success on pitch one, because if it is meaty they can go for it, and if not they can take it. Later in the count, you have fewer chances as the count progresses towards the strikeout. So, you press, and widen your strike zone (all except Lee, and Murton in the past few years, more looking Ks than most) and are therefore less effective later in the count.
Similarly with pitching, pitch quality is generally higher (i.e. tougher to hit) with the more strikes in the count (more nibbling), and lower with the more balls in the count (have to throw strikes).
Its cool to see someone get a hit after fighting off a bunch of pitches, but it is also rare and difficult.
Grounding out on the 1st pitch is not as aesthetically pleasing as doing it on a 2-2 pitch, but its an out either way.
While the win on Wednesday was lauded for the patience at the plate of Kendall and Fontenot, no one notices that the win on Tuesday was Theriot/JJ/Floyd hitting the 2nd pitch, Lee hitting the 1st, Kendall hitting the 3rd, and Aram taking a walk. That is a lot of early hitting!
by californiachicagoan on Aug 24, 2007 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
very well said
by jacob on Aug 24, 2007 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hacking
by Fraggin Judge on Aug 24, 2007 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm good at typing...
by Kinky Reggae on Aug 24, 2007 9:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Timing
Murton may stick around the rest of the season, but unless the injury bug hits I doubt he'll be on the post-season roster as well as in a Cub uniform next season. We really wanted him to do well, to show for something coming out the Nomar trade (since Nomar was a rental and the Cubs gave up some prospects as well as that chin-goatee'd pitcher), but that was not meant to be.
Good luck, Orange Guy, wherever you may land.
by SpudV on Aug 24, 2007 10:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
We didn't give up Clement
We traded Francis Beltran, who is 2-8 with a 4.67 ERA for AAA Norfolk.
We traded Brendan Harris, who is .288/.346 with the Devil Rays.
We traded Alex "Blame Bartman, not me!" Gonzalez, who isn't in the league any longer.
I'd do that trade again 10 times in 10 chances. The only thing we lost of value was Harris, and DeRosa/Fontenot is more than enough.
by lancaster99 on Aug 24, 2007 10:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That's the name
Beltran was a hot prospect back then, but it looks like he's cooled down. Harris may have been handy to have now, considering the Izturis-Cedeno situation at SS, even as a backup to Theriot.
And yeah, it was a good trade and I'd do it again too, as it was worth a shot to try to squeeze a few more years of value out of Nomar. Just not at first base ...
by SpudV on Aug 24, 2007 11:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Nice Pitching
by roscoevillage on Aug 24, 2007 9:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
could be pull-a-way night for the cubs
StL losing big to Atl and Milwosing late to SF
by Ivy Walls on Aug 24, 2007 11:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh yeah....Cubs WIN....up on STL 4 games
Cubs 66-61
Cards 61-64 and B-Crew at 65-63...they are9-18 last 27...anyone have a set of forks?
by Ivy Walls on Aug 25, 2007 12:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

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