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The Week Of The Pitcher

SAN FRANCISCO -- Each of the games in this three-game series by the Bay featured outstanding starting pitching. Tuesday, it was Jason Marquis and Tim Lincecum. Last night, curveballers Rich Hill and Barry Zito matched nearly pitch-for-pitch for seven-plus innings.

And today, the Giants' Matt Cain and Carlos Zambrano...

Oh, wait. Someone forgot to tell Carlos he was supposed to pick up where he left off during the rainout on Sunday.

Matt Cain baffled Cub hitters for seven innings, and hit a two-run homer, and the Giants beat the Cubs 4-1, salvaging one game. It doesn't feel as good as two out of three should, because given that your best pitcher is on the mound and you've already won the first two games, you should sweep.

Oh, and read the above paragraph again. Matt Cain hit a two-run homer. What is up with THAT? Cain had a .103 lifetime average coming into this game (and .068 this year, although he also homered two weeks ago vs. the Nationals). So what on Earth is Z doing, walking him in the fourth inning with two out (a walk that loaded the bases and led to two runs when Dave Roberts singled)? Cain had drawn exactly two walks in 132 major league plate appearances before today. And then compounding the mistake by serving him a fat pitch in his next at-bat?

I had a bad feeling about this game when Daryle Ward, who had doubled leading off the second inning, got picked off.

If you didn't see or hear about the game till now, you're shaking your head, too. Daryle Ward got picked off?!?!?!11 We are talking about a man who has had seven career stolen base attempts and been caught six times. What on Earth is he doing straying that far from second base? Naturally, Mark DeRosa followed with a walk, and one out later, Mike Fontenot's double likely would have scored two runs and given the Cubs the lead and maybe put Cain on the ropes. Instead, DeRosa had to hold at third, and Carlos Zambrano, who's not a bad hitter, took three swings, and with each one tried to hit a 900-foot home run, and naturally, struck out.

That was really the only threat the Cubs had, although they did score a run on Jason Kendall's double, followed by Fontenot's single, his second hit of the game. Matt Murton, who is likely to see much less playing time with the acquisition of Craig Monroe from the Tigers, (more on this a little later) then had a horrendous at-bat, swinging at the first pitch and hitting into a double play. Naturally, Ryan Theriot then poked another double into the RF corner; without the DP, that would have scored another run. Instead, Theriot was stranded when Jacque Jones also swung at the first pitch (I was kind of surprised Bruce Bochy didn't go to Steve Kline to face Jones, but it didn't matter, as it turned out) and grounded out.

Can someone please review with this ballclub the value of working the count? The only guy who seems to be doing this on a regular basis is Kendall.

A few props, at least, to the bullpen, today consisting of Scott Eyre, Kerry Wood and Bob Howry, who threw 2.2 scoreless innings, allowing two hits and striking out three, in a fruitless attempt to help the Cubs catch up. Wood was hitting 95 on the stadium radar gun, at least, and looked sharp, though my friend Mark, in from Gilroy, sitting near the Cubs bullpen, texted me to say, "Wood looks positively scrawny these days". It's not easy to tell from a distance, but he's clearly lost a LOT of weight. Doesn't seem to have affected his ability to throw hard, though.

Mark (not that Mark, my son Mark) and I sat 30 rows directly behind the plate today (and I had a garlic chicken sandwich from one of the concession stands which was actually quite good), right in front of the press box where I saw Bruce Miles sitting in the front row, so I went by to say hi. He's the one who told me of the Monroe acquisition -- also, that Buck Coats is going to be DFA'd to make room on the 40-man roster. I presume Jake Fox will be optioned to Iowa to make room.

Basically, this is a move to get a more experienced major league hitter and a better outfielder on the roster than Fox. I assume Monroe (who Jim Hendry has been after for quite some time -- he tried to trade for him in the 2005-06 offseason at the time he also was pursuing Jacque Jones) will play vs. all LHP, either in LF until Alfonso Soriano returns or in RF after Soriano does come back. Monroe had a terrible year for the Tigers, hitting only .222/.264/.373 and striking out 94 times in 372 AB, and this after hitting 28 HR with 92 RBI for last year's AL champs. However, in 2007 he is hitting .302/.317/.542 in 96 AB vs. LHP, and in his career he's a .277/.321/.501 hitter vs. LHP, with 35 HR and 49 doubles in 714 AB. Yes, he'll strike out a ton, but he does hit with power and is a decent outfielder who can play all three OF positions (probably best in RF, though).

I received quite a few emails from some of you who wanted to try to meet up during this series. It just wasn't feasible given my time schedule with my kids here... so, perhaps next time, or if any of you make it to Chicago later in the year.

Anyway, the Cubs will maintain first place till tomorrow, as the Brewers have the day off, and if they can go into Phoenix (a place where they've never played that well) and take two of three again, that will be a road trip well played.

And someone please remind Z to get some rest? He's going to have to be on his "A" game next Wednesday against the Brewers.

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Hanley Ramirez
just got picked off at 2nd base. Ward's pick off was more ugly but getting picked off at 2nd with Cabrera at the plate? So these things do happen and I am happy that we won 2 of 3 in SF against some very good pitching.

by cubsnlinux on Aug 23, 2007 7:21 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Aces?
I'm not sure anymore what an ace is?  In my day I remember Koufax, Gibson, Spann, Drysdale, and many others who just weren't as inconsistent as what we see now days.  Comparing Zambrano to any of these guys just doesn't seem ace like.  Sure Zambrano had a good month and a half, but should we forget about the rest of the year?  An ace to me is a pitcher who is consistent and doesn't have all the ups and downs that Zambrano has.  I think an ace has to be an ace on a regular basis and not just for a month or two.    Just because a pitcher lead a team in wins doesn't necssarily make him an "Ace", does it?

by Saratoga on Aug 23, 2007 7:22 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree
Right now Z is a big head case and really doesn't fit the definition of an ace. He is lights out in one outing and will pitch like a #4/#5 starter the next. Also what's up with the 9 run HR hacks from Z?
Depending upon the situation he needs to shorten his swing and try to put the ball in play. I have seen him take bigger hacks then he did anytime before this season. One of these days he might just hurt his wrist trying to hit a pitch 100 miles.

by cubsnlinux on Aug 23, 2007 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Where was the pitching coach after walk #2?
Sitting on his thumb? He waits until Z walks the pitcher, then comes out. Day late, dollar short.

Z is a head case, he needs special attention. I'm not sure he can be helped sometime. It's maddening how good he can be and how bad he can be.

Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 23, 2007 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Buck, we hardly knew ye
Always thought Buck Coats might make a nice 4th-5th OF he hit in spring training and during brief call-up here...versatile with good speed...guess not enough power and other prospects ahead of hin now? Who? E-Patt?? Colvin def., but a year or so (at least) away.

Am sure another team is going to pick him up or claim him, however that works....

Love the Monroe acquisition for basically nothing....but Cubs biggest off-season remains an OF with some sock to play RF regularly and PRODUCE, something they've lacked since Sammy (Burnitz and Jones just OK in this role).

by writerinwrigley on Aug 23, 2007 7:26 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

seating help at Wrigley.
My friend has sec. 205 row 10 seats.  He got them off stubhub and they say limited view.  Does anyone know how bad these seats might be blocked by a post?

thanks

by cozmotaylor on Aug 23, 2007 7:27 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Depending on how far across the row you are
Any base, the mound or the plate could be blocked. It's hit or miss from row 10 and back for the terrace reserved. Got stuck in the same area for the 2004 home opener when Maddog made a not-so-fun return. Pirates 13, Cubs 2.
Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 23, 2007 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You should be able to move
There are actually empties around. No one will bother in the Terrace section. I would find some other seats about the 2nd inning an if someone comes just find other ones.
"It's the Cubbies. There's always a vibe. It's the greatest vibe in baseball." Greg Maddux on Cub fan's optimism even after the 06 debacle.

by jessica on Aug 23, 2007 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Obstructed view
You will be about 3 rows behind the column.  seats 7,8,9 seem to be the worst.  You can still see the game but you will have to do some bobbing and weaving from time to time.

by 1060 W Addison on Aug 23, 2007 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

good comment Al
on the lack of plate patience. I've been crying for that for a long, long time and thought perhaps the new hitting coach will help.

The Murton and Jones 1st pitch swinging when the pitcher was not yet on the ropes was totally unnecessary.

Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 23, 2007 7:30 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yep
Len and Bob mentioned this during the game about how we haven't really improved over the last season in the walk department. Last season we had a total of 395 walks and were ranked 16th. This year we only have about 385 walks so far and currently we rank 14.

Lately there has been too much first pitch swinging from almost everyone.

by cubsnlinux on Aug 23, 2007 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd almost like to know....
the team had a TV on in the clubhouse when BB mentioned that and since he made the statement "nicely" and was a WS-winning manager, they'd consider what he's saying. I certainly don't want Stone-Gate II.
Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 23, 2007 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like having a color guy
who speaks his mind.  I agreed with BB when he called Murton out for not showing patience today, as he still complemented Murton for normally having patience when he starts a game.  He correctly pointed out that Murton tends to be impatient in a pinch-hitting role.  I also liked the way he got on Jake Fox last night...fair points were made.

I was unhappy when the players pressured the organization to get rid of Stone when he was being honest in his calls.  Stone is knowledgeable and gave great color particularly on how pitchers worked a game. These guys should not be so thin-skinned when the criticism is fair and honest.

Prince Fielder...he is neither.

by LAcarl519 on Aug 23, 2007 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

As much as I like Stoney...
...he does come off as arrogant and was never a WS manager. BB however goes about it a bit more softly but makes his point.

It's funny, there's an audio clip on ESPNradio1000.com that runs as a commercial for Mac, Jurko and Harry. It has a couple clips from a BB interview. Mac asks BB as a manage about Fonzie in his leadoff role and this during the time Fonzie was hot. BB goes on to reply that Fonzie is doing a good job in the leadoff position now but meantions that if he were manager, Fonzies performance a couple weeks earlier than that would not have warranted a leadoff role. Again totally true, to the point and not arrogant.

Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 23, 2007 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I will not argue about
your points on BB or Stoney. BB does have better delivery, but doesn't that come from the fact that he was a manager (needs to know how to communicate) and Stone was a star player (therefore more of an ego). BB was never really a star player. Trust me, I respect what BB has done, I just think Stone developed his ego more, while BB developed his people skills more. I am just saying that I accept the difference in style given the perspective they both have. Heck, I love Santo's grunts & screams too! Nothing will sound sweeter if we keep playing in October.
Prince Fielder...he is neither.

by LAcarl519 on Aug 23, 2007 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bob has improved greatly
And I'll hate to see him leave if he gets the Reds job.

But there were few better things in baseball than listening to Stoney say, "If he throws this, he'll get him," and then watch it happen.

by lancaster99 on Aug 23, 2007 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stoney
He was soo good at calling a pitch or pick off move.  Seems like he was never wrong.  I really enjoyed his arrogance at times and if you ever saw the game where Bill Murray was announcing back in the eighties, it's pure magic.  Stone was rarely phazed by Murray's commentary.  It's on youtube.

by shawonfan on Aug 23, 2007 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let's try this again, shall we
For some reason, I can't paste in the comment box, which means I have to type the URLs out by hand. And since I am a complete idiot, I screwed up Parts 3-5.
Let's see if I get it right this time:

Part 3

Part 4

Part 5

by rob9802 on Aug 24, 2007 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh my
I loved this.  Thank you! I was too young at the time to watch/remember this.  Bill Murray is freakin hilarious! No way his comments fly in this PC culture today.  However I must say he NEEDS to be in the booth again!

by GoCubbies34 on Aug 24, 2007 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

mlb.com has the cardinal feed for the game
and it's pretty horrible hearing their announcers.  I hate everything about that team :-)

Anyway, it's 4-1 now in the 5th inning, and Reyes has 96 pitches.

I can't wait till they're in Atlanta over the weekend.

by zevkalman on Aug 23, 2007 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

One of the Hrabosky?
If so, then there's the reason for lousy.

Hey, Atl visits the Birds this weekend. Anyhow, if the Braves and Cubs both take 2 of 3, I'd be happy. Let's see how Lou plays Monroe. Hope they can catch lightning in a bottle like Kendall.

Leading off and playing short, TheRiot; batting 2nd and catching, Mr.OBP, Jason Kendall.....Do it Lou!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 23, 2007 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I promised Al
I would be nicer regarding all things Cardinal...

If I'm going to keep that promise, then I can't listen to Hrabosky. My head might explode.

by lancaster99 on Aug 23, 2007 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL
Now on THIS, I agree with you completely.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 23, 2007 11:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Reyes in the house!
If only his pitch count was less.  The man is a starter for the red hot Cardinals with a 2-12 record.  Matt Cain he's not.  He just sux.

by shawonfan on Aug 23, 2007 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

pinch hit HR--Marlins 7-1
Cards hit next batter after HR and get warned by umpire...hit batter then steals 2nd base.

by zevkalman on Aug 23, 2007 9:16 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Now 8-1 Marlins
I love seeing the manager TLR's ugly face frowning with his sunglasses on during a night game.  That sight could scare a little kid.

by zevkalman on Aug 23, 2007 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh yes, TLR's sunglasses...
Miiler and Morgan on the Sunday ESPN game actually tried to claim that those are lens that "darken in the sun" and not sunglasses.  They have to make excuses for that jerk at every turn.  LaRussa wears sunglasses even at night because he is so paranoid and he doesn't want the manager from the other team to know where he is looking.  So he thinks the dark lenses give him an advantage. He is so friggen paranoid.  The guy probably has LoJack on his wife's car and reports the car stollen every night just to find out where she is.
Prince Fielder...he is neither.

by LAcarl519 on Aug 23, 2007 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's just hiding .....
....the bloodshot eyes.

by iluvryno on Aug 24, 2007 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

LMAOL
But, really, they are "Transition" brand prescription lenses. They darken because the park lights are as bright as daylight.

by Fraggin Judge on Aug 24, 2007 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with
you Al on swinging at the first pitch. It seems the modern hitter especially in pinch hitting roles, they cut at that first pitch. Murtons  double play ball was a killer. The more I watch Matt, he is a role player at best, like the guy, but that seems to be his spot on this team.
 Monroe is a good pick up. And Hey "Z", lets go, stop walking guys, especially .067 Matt Cain.

by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Aug 23, 2007 10:11 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

another trade?
I was watching Comcast Sports Nite here in Chicago and they mentioned that Lou said the Cubs are close to getting more help - a veteran long reliever. I wonder who it could be.

site of mine

by drodd on Aug 23, 2007 10:13 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Now
I'm excited. I've been wanting them to get some good long relief all season.

phat

by phatass on Aug 24, 2007 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

interesting....another tweak
As my humble observation indicates Cubs have had three roster weaknesses before today (not counting the IR)

A) Right handed OF'er with power and ability to play RF....(DeRosa in the OF)...Monroe (how good an answer will be determined, but he is better than Murton & Fox),

B) Long reliever; Cubs have gone the entire year without a real long reliever, but acquiring one with experience and effectiveness would allow the Cubs to go with as less as six relievers on the playoff roster----meaning that they might go with 10 no more 11 pitchers....implying who might be out....Pignatiello, (of course), Wood? (probably, he takes too long to warm up and only goes one inning and not consecutive games), Marshall(?) if they go with 10 pitchers and also have a long reliever.

C) Utility SS: Since the trade of Izturis the Cubs have gambled that Cedeno could hit .220 when called upon...that has not worked out well. Acquiring a bona fide utility SS would go far in completing the roster.

Milw-09-24-98--Brown in for defense--bases loaded--flyball--HE DROPPED THE BALL!!!NO NO NO, cubs lose 8-7

by Ivy Walls on Aug 24, 2007 12:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hate to see Murton go
just because he did show some ability last year. I think he could end up being a pretty good baseball player. He hasn't shown enough this year, though. I don't watch the games, I listen on the radio, so I can't judge his fielding abilities. The numbers don't seem that bad. But fielding numbers aren't exactly the best set of stats to work with.

Murton will end up having a pretty decent major league career, I suspect. It may not be with the Cubs.

Fox needs some work. There's really no way of knowing how well he will end up playing. So far, he hasn't gotten the job done.

I don't have too many problems with our infield, really. Theriot's just been great.

With DeRosa I'm not sure we need another utility guy.

I guess they don't have a backup SS.

Another right-handed hitter with some pop could help. I hope Monroe can do this. It's not so much the OF work that I've had a problem with. We need somebody who can hit the ball, especially off the bench. Although I don't know that this team is that bad off in this regard. They're not great, but not awful.

It's hard to figure "clutch" but one more guy good in the clutch seems important.

phat

by phatass on Aug 24, 2007 1:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh
and of course, this team has been missing a long reliever all year. I have a feeling that if they had had one some of those bad starts wouldn't look so bad right now. Somebody who can go 3 innings out of the bullpen under pressure I think would have added 4 or 5 wins to this teams record. Starters have bad days. They've done a pretty good job this year. With a little help I think they would have done better.

I'm not sure who was available in the off-season, but looking back it seems a middle-reliever would have really helped, moreso than any other position.

phat

by phatass on Aug 24, 2007 1:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Monroe shows any pop
in his bat, I'll bet you can say goodbye to Murton as a Cub. 20 walks in 180 AB's. No patience at all, especially when you need to work the count/pitcher. I like him, but he gets chance after chance to show his worth and stick with the big club, but it's always the same. He'll look good for a game or two, but nothing to get excited about. Another good AAAA player.
"When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches."- Ron Santo

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 23, 2007 11:07 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Monroe's a major upgrade over Murton
considering the Cubs' need for power.  This team consists of too many slap hitters.  Good to see them pickup Monroe...  Great move.
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!

by CubFaninCA on Aug 23, 2007 11:33 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

"Major" is pushing it.
He SHOULD be a better "30th" guy on the roster (expanded) than Jake Fox or another mediocre AAA guy, and at the least SHOULD do better against lefties.

I am not a Murton "hater" as I have been accused. That is BS.

He's  - "eh".

Not good - not pathetic. A tad below average...

HE DID hit 5 Post-Season HR's for Detroit - so at least he has pop...

It is AUGUST, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Aug 24, 2007 12:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Murton's that bad
He can take some walks and hit dribblers..  Perhaps he can make it as a 2b..
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!

by CubFaninCA on Aug 24, 2007 1:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"5 Post-Season HR's"
meaning Monroe...

But, so far the rest of this year has been worse than Murton's.

It is AUGUST, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Aug 24, 2007 12:15 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Geovany Soto's 2HR night ... PLEASE CALL HIM UP!!!
(Okay, some Soto bellyacheing...)

Dear Cubs Front Office (knowing full well that the purveyors of this site don't have such power),

Geovany Soto went 3 for 3 tonight with TWO homers, 3 RBI and a walk.  OMG, you guys!  He's hitting .362 with 23 homeruns!  Dude is awesome, but we all know that you couldn't possibly use his .428 OBP either.  

Call him up, puhlease!  We don't want to see him anymore.  We're tired of chasing down his homeruns hit into the Des Moines River.  

Signed,
The State of Iowa

by IowaCubs- on Aug 24, 2007 2:14 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

he had horrible
plate discipline when called up.  1 hit, 1 walk, and 3 K's. I'm sure we will see him again, but he didn't look too hot for those few days.

by blueapple on Aug 24, 2007 2:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He'll be up on September 1
While Soto is having a fine season, the PCL is notorious for guys who light it up and then have less than stellar major league careers.  I think he'll get a legitimate chance to split time with Hank next season, or maybe even start full-time if Hank decides to retire.

by Invalid User on Aug 24, 2007 7:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Expanded Rosters not enough for Soto
Dude needs to be on the 25, not the expanded roster.  Speaking of plate discipline, did anyone notice Soto's wicked .433 OBP??

I've watched him for three years in Des Moines.  2005 he was twitchy, almost seemed to pull everything.  2006 was a nice turnaround, but he tried to be too cute with the ball, almost aiming for the RCF gap resulting in lots of K's and groundouts.  This year, he seems to have found his swing and maturity, allowing his wrists to follow his hips, allowing for more line drives and power.  

It's been a pleasure to watch him mature, but now I'm sick of seeing him.  Let's get him on the playoff roster!

by IowaCubs- on Aug 24, 2007 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Careful
These PCL numbers don't seem to transalte well into the majors, as Pie, Cedeno, and Murton prove. Even beyond our ballclub, look at Adam Jones and Justin Upton. Amazing numbers in the PCL don't equate to even passable numbers in the majors. Upton has been okay, Jones can't break into the lineup and we've all seen what Pie, Murton, and Cedeno have done. Soto will be back in September, and he'll probably get a chance to win the regular job in spring training. Let him continue to get regular AB's and hope he can transition well next year through spring training.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Aug 24, 2007 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Morgan
Awesome Morgan quote.  Right up there with Bill Walton's "Sedale Threatt is THE BEST BIG GAME PLAYER IN NBA HISTORY!"

by IowaCubs- on Aug 24, 2007 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Classy Cardinals
Man hits home run. Plunk him.

God, I hate LaRussa. He is such a hypocrite on these matters.

by lancaster99 on Aug 24, 2007 7:33 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Z's Arm Angle
was reminiscent of his first two months this year.  I have no idea why but his arm slot just wasn't what  it has been.  I know he'll turn it around but it'd be nice for him to concentrate on that EVERY start, cause when he's right, as we all know, he's pretty nasty.  Rothschild, what the hell do we pay you for?  

by lilkimmer77 on Aug 24, 2007 7:43 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Pitching (Coach) Blues
You're right.  Given our young guys (Hill and Marshall) and well known head cases (Z and Marquis), Larry (and Lou, too) should be much more aggressive and get off their backsides EARLIER instead of later.  Way too frequently this year the trip to the mound comes a pitch or batter too late.  If a dum-dum like me is screaming for them to go out and talk to the pitcher, why can't they see the need?

No matter how they are handled the pitching staff must shoulder much of the blame though, too.  Watching Z walk the pitcher Cain with 2 outs yesterday was agonizing and simply should not happen when the staff "ace" is on the mound.  Cripes, it's bad enough when Marquis does it (seems to be one of his trademarks).  

Overall, our pitchers seem to have difficulty getting the 3rd strike and 3rd out -- which leads to all kinds of problems.  Anybody out there have any suggestions on why our staff has so much trouble finishing off hitters and innings??

by wrigley1 on Aug 24, 2007 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sometimes...
The bear gets you.

It is still really tough to sweep a team, especially in their home park. The odds were, frankly, against the Cubs yesterday, even with Z on the mound.

Zambrano still only gave up 4 runs, and might have given up fewer if he had an outfield that can play defense.

The real culprit is still the offense.

by lancaster99 on Aug 24, 2007 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In Zambrano's defence
the 900-foot home run IS the most difficult one to hit.
"They always say time changes things, but you actually have to change them yourself." ~Andy Warhol

by BlueW on Aug 24, 2007 8:54 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

How about..
We NOT count on Zambrano to contribute to the offense and focus more on the 8 other guys who are actually paid to create offense.

by lancaster99 on Aug 24, 2007 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

working the count
Can someone please review with this ballclub the value of working the count?

The cubs are hitting .358/.359/.551 on the first pitch. After taking the first pitch for a strike they are hitting .235/.273/.334 (wow!)

While for the casual fan the aesthetics of taking the first pitch seem to be more sportingly elegant, the Cubs are much better off hacking at first pitch strikes. In fact, 21 of the teams homeruns have been hit on the first pitch and no more than 15 have been hit in any other count.

by jacob on Aug 24, 2007 9:09 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I believe in volleyball
That is called a FACIAL!

Great stat work!

by lancaster99 on Aug 24, 2007 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How do those numbers compare to other teams?
n/t
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 24, 2007 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What about after a first pitch ball?
You may run like mays but you hit like $#!%

by cubsirishkillme on Aug 24, 2007 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

after 1-0
they are hitting .280/.385/.456

by jacob on Aug 24, 2007 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's not quite right, is it?
AFTER 1-0, they are hitting .284

ON a 1-0 count, they are hitting .352/.348/.579

Wait, how can an on-base percentage be LOWER than a batting average?

Are they being thrown out trying to stretch a single into a double that many times? And do you get nothing on your OBP when you get thrown out trying to take too many bases?

Also, on a 3-0 count, they have a .000 BA and a .946 OBP.

So, they either walk  (which they've done 105 out of 111 tims) or make an out. They have NO hits on 3-0.

by lancaster99 on Aug 24, 2007 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's right
i just copied and pasted, it's right.

sacrifices count as plate appearances but not ABs.

if you have three plate appearances, one hit, one sacrifice fly, and one strikeout, you'd be 1/2 on the day, batting average would be .500, but your OBP is .333.

by jacob on Aug 24, 2007 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Got it
I get the sac fly thing.

But there is a difference between ON 1-0 count and AFTER 1-0 count.

Just checked. Of the contending teams, only the Red Sox and Angels have the highest chunk of their RBIs and HRs coming on counts other than 0-0.

by lancaster99 on Aug 24, 2007 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am one
who fully believes in taking the first pitch...if teh first pitch is a ball.

I actually feel that takinga irst pitch, dead center strike is quite frustrating and swings momentum the wrong way.  Borderline pitches and clear balls, absolutely but I HATE when someone goes up there with their bat in their shoulder and is obviously gonna pass.

MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 24, 2007 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

cubs
have had 4885 plate appearances this year. 614 have ended with the first pitch (13%). Of the rest, 1962 were first pitch balls (40%) and 2309 were first pitch strikes (47%)

In the NL this year 12.4% of plate appearances end on the first pitch (the cubs 13% is actually 12.56).

by jacob on Aug 24, 2007 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I
don't even know what point you're trying to make at this point...I bet you don't either!
MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 24, 2007 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

point
the cubs hack at the first pitch 12.56% of the time, in the entire NL players hack at the first pitch 12.4% of the time, so the cubs are a little hackier than most, but not much (about 9 plate appearances more than "average" so far this year).

by jacob on Aug 24, 2007 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So
you fel that hacking at the first pitch is not such a bad thing and that their success rate when doing so isn't that bad either?

I would have to agree...look at that, sweep away all that stat talk and you didn;t actually annoy me that much!

:)

MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 24, 2007 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

While for the casual statistician
the aesthetics of throwing a stat out there in isolation of all other aspects of reality may seem to prove something, etc., blah blah blah...
"Signature must be less than 160 characters" -- Who has a name with 160 characters?

by BlueSox on Aug 24, 2007 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

those
numbers speak nothing to the value of working the pitch count, getting into the bullpen etc.

they are an account of what has happened when cubs hitters have gone up there hacking at the first pitch.

apologies to anyone who tried to read more into the numbers than what they are.

by jacob on Aug 24, 2007 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are the one claiming to answer Al's
question of the value of working the pitch count -- you even reference Al's question word for word in your post!

You are the one trying to read more into the numbers than what they are.

I am saying the exact opposite:  There is more to the answer to Al's question than the numbers you posted.

"Signature must be less than 160 characters" -- Who has a name with 160 characters?

by BlueSox on Aug 24, 2007 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you're right
I'm sorry. Guess I should have worded my post differently. Any suggestions?

by jacob on Aug 24, 2007 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's one -
How many times do the Cubs hitters swing at the first pitch when the pitch was outside the strike-zone?  And, how does that compare to other teams?
"Signature must be less than 160 characters" -- Who has a name with 160 characters?

by BlueSox on Aug 24, 2007 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i'm not sure i understand
you've pointed out that my initial comment was poorly worded, i was trying to show that when the cubs swing at the first pitch they are hitting much better than when they take the first pitch for a strike.

i'm wondering how you would've written my initial comment differently to say that, without, as you say, "trying to read more into the numbers than what they are."

Your questions are good ones, but i don't have the data to answer it. There have been, however, a few excellent studies about pitch-by-pitch hitting penned by far smarter men than I. I can't point some out if you are interested.

by jacob on Aug 24, 2007 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was your reference
to the casual fan that got my dander up.  I'm just having a bad day.  Please ignore my snark.  
"Signature must be less than 160 characters" -- Who has a name with 160 characters?

by BlueSox on Aug 24, 2007 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

can't sometimes is can
I can't point some out if you are interested.

That should read: I can point some out if you are interested.

by jacob on Aug 24, 2007 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Reading this whole thread...
... the key thing that stands out is that the Cubs are just about league average in "hacking" at the first pitch.

So -- what's the point of this other than trolling? Sounds like the Cubs do just about what everyone else does. My point stands -- being patient, in general, helps ballclubs' offense.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 24, 2007 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed
I'll let go.  To be honest, I was torqued off by the "casual fan" reference, but that's my problem.  I would, however, like to know the answer to my question above regarding how the cubs do when they swing at a first pitch that was outside the strike-zone.  Is there a stat for that?
"Signature must be less than 160 characters" -- Who has a name with 160 characters?

by BlueSox on Aug 24, 2007 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh, i get it.
my apologies.

What I'm saying there with those words is that conventional wisdom says that taking the first pitch for a strike is a Good Thing. But for us baseball fanatics we know that "conventional wisdom" or using my language- the casual fan's perspective of the game- is not always correct. It is decidedly NOT true that taking the first pitch for a strike is a Good Thing, sometimes it is, sometimes it is not.

Did that help clear it up?

by jacob on Aug 24, 2007 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes
I apologize -- Like I said above, I'm just having one of those days when I'm literally looking for something to be torqued off at.  I just need to chill.
"Signature must be less than 160 characters" -- Who has a name with 160 characters?

by BlueSox on Aug 24, 2007 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They also...
Do not speak of the value of going after a pitcher who is trying to get a ball down the middle of the plate.

The Cubs have 555 RBIs as a team. 88 of them came on first pitch swings. That's the highest for any count. (Just below is 1-1, with 84 RBIs.)

21 of the Cubs' 102 homers - again, the highest percentage -- have been on first pitches.

The highest percentage of hits, doubles, sac flies and yes, ground into double plays, have come on the first pitch.

Mostly good things happen to the Cubs on the first pitch.

by lancaster99 on Aug 24, 2007 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

First strike. Not first pitch.
I have tried to make this point, to not much effect before.  Just taking a first pitch is not a good thing.  In fact, the numbers get worse and worse you go the more straikes you let go by (or foul off).  The concept of "working the count" is not to just take a bunch of pitches, and then hope to hit in a later count.  "Working the count" is not swinging at balls, fouling off tough strikes, and taking good hacks on meaty strikes. If the meaty strike is pitch, you swing at pitch one.  You may ground out, fly out, foul it off, or miss it altogether.  The problem there is the actual swing, the execution, not the decision to swing.

Of course, this is what most players try to do.  That is why there is so much success on pitch one, because if it is meaty they can go for it, and if not they can take it.  Later in the count, you have fewer chances as the count progresses towards the strikeout.  So, you press, and widen your strike zone (all except Lee, and Murton in the past few years, more looking Ks than most) and are therefore less effective later in the count.  

Similarly with pitching, pitch quality is generally higher (i.e. tougher to hit) with the more strikes in the count (more nibbling), and lower with the more balls in the count (have to throw strikes).

Its cool to see someone get a hit after fighting off a bunch of pitches, but it is also rare and difficult.

Grounding out on the 1st pitch is not as aesthetically pleasing as doing it on a 2-2 pitch, but its an out either way.  

While the win on Wednesday was lauded for the patience at the plate of Kendall and Fontenot, no one notices that the win on Tuesday was Theriot/JJ/Floyd hitting the 2nd pitch, Lee hitting the 1st, Kendall hitting the 3rd, and Aram taking a walk.  That is a lot of early hitting!

by californiachicagoan on Aug 24, 2007 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

very well said
you summed up hitting counts and hitting very nicely.

by jacob on Aug 24, 2007 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hacking
There's a difference between swinging at the first pitch and mindless hacking. The problem is not swinging at the first pitch. It's pitch selection. Good opposing pitchers who can effectively spot the ball notice that the Cubs are swinging at every first pitch and they are not going to throw a fat one down the middle. That's what Lincecum did for eight innings the other night. When he got tired and couldn't spot his pitches well anymore, that's when the Cubs started hitting. So, be selective, Cubs hitters.

by Fraggin Judge on Aug 24, 2007 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm good at typing...
MMMMM...Mannys corned beef and a latke

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 24, 2007 9:31 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Timing
The disappointment in Murton's bad pinch-hit AB has to do with the timing.  Coming up cold off of the bench, with a pitcher struggling, you should take the first pitch.  At the very least you get accustomed to seeing the release point of the pitcher, what kind of movement he's putting on the ball and start to time your swing.  If it's called a ball, then you can wait on a particular pitch.

Murton may stick around the rest of the season, but unless the injury bug hits I doubt he'll be on the post-season roster as well as in a Cub uniform next season.  We really wanted him to do well, to show for something coming out the Nomar trade (since Nomar was a rental and the Cubs gave up some prospects as well as that chin-goatee'd pitcher), but that was not meant to be.

Good luck, Orange Guy, wherever you may land.

Pie, Fontenot, Theriot and Soto up the middle ... yippie oh, oh, oh!

by SpudV on Aug 24, 2007 10:26 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

We didn't give up Clement
We traded Justin Jones, who currently has a 5.40 ERA in AA Harrisburg.

We traded Francis Beltran, who is 2-8 with a 4.67 ERA for AAA Norfolk.

We traded Brendan Harris, who is .288/.346 with the Devil Rays.

We traded Alex "Blame Bartman, not me!" Gonzalez, who isn't in the league any longer.

I'd do that trade again 10 times in 10 chances. The only thing we lost of value was Harris, and DeRosa/Fontenot is more than enough.

by lancaster99 on Aug 24, 2007 10:56 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

That's the name
I was trying to remember - Clement.  He was due to be FA at the end of the season anyhow IIRC.

Beltran was a hot prospect back then, but it looks like he's cooled down.  Harris may have been handy to have now, considering the Izturis-Cedeno situation at SS, even as a backup to Theriot.

And yeah, it was a good trade and I'd do it again too, as it was worth a shot to try to squeeze a few more years of value out of Nomar.  Just not at first base ...

Pie, Fontenot, Theriot and Soto up the middle ... yippie oh, oh, oh!

by SpudV on Aug 24, 2007 11:57 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Nice Pitching
Brewers down 5-3 in the 1st

by roscoevillage on Aug 24, 2007 9:48 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

could be pull-a-way night for the cubs
Cubs winning in the 9th

StL losing big to Atl  and Milwosing late to SF

Milw-09-24-98--Brown in for defense--bases loaded--flyball--HE DROPPED THE BALL!!!NO NO NO, cubs lose 8-7

by Ivy Walls on Aug 24, 2007 11:15 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Oh yeah....Cubs WIN....up on STL 4 games

Cubs 66-61
Cards 61-64 and B-Crew at 65-63...they are9-18 last 27...anyone have a set of forks?

Milw-09-24-98--Brown in for defense--bases loaded--flyball--HE DROPPED THE BALL!!!NO NO NO, cubs lose 8-7

by Ivy Walls on Aug 25, 2007 12:10 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

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