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Witness To History, Part Deux

Alyellontoppscard_tiny by Al Yellon on in Chicago Cubs Recaps

This is history that, frankly, I'd rather Tom Glavine had waited till his next start to make, since in notching his 300th career win, it meant a Cub loss, 8-3 to the Mets last night, and despite the comments of Chuck at Ivy Chat in the past that I'd rather see history than a Cubs win, that's simply not true, particularly now, when every win is critical in a pennant race. In fact, with storms ripping through parts of the Chicago area last night, it might have been better had this one been rained out.

Incidentally, I find myself in agreement with Chuck this morning (yes, I know you're gasping). Chuck wrote of the scary-looking right quad injury to Alfonso Soriano which is apparently going to keep him out from 2-4 weeks:

Soriano has been causing problems for this team all year. On this team, he really should be playing right and batting 2nd or 5th in the order. Due to his weak mental makeup and lack of a smart approach to an at bat, he has to bat first and play left. Because of this limitation, the Cubs are worse in right field, employing mostly Matt Murton, Daryle Ward, Cliff Floyd. All those guys are left fielders. Soriano has the arm for right, but can't play there because it screws up his hitting.

Chuck's got it pretty much nailed here. I'm not sure I agree with "weak mental makeup", but Soriano doesn't approach at-bats well, and is one of the streakiest hitters I've ever seen in a Cub uniform. When he's going well -- as he was during the month of June, when he hit .336/.379/.697 with 11 HR in 28 games -- he can help carry a team. But when he's cold -- and since the All-Star break he's hitting .255/.277/.439 with 3 HR in 23 games -- he can drag a team down. Dave and I have discussed this quite a bit in the bleachers all season, how Soriano has almost never -- save that game-winning single he had against the Rockies on June 25 -- had a hit in a key situation all season.

So apart from the little bunny hop he makes before every routine catch in left field, will the Cubs miss him? I say no. The obvious move is to recall Felix Pie, shift Cliff Floyd back to LF, and have Jacque Jones and Mark DeRosa split time in RF (with DeRosa and Mike Fontenot splitting time at 2B). This won't help the defense much (except for the huge upgrade in CF with Pie), but most of us have noted the big boost in energy the Cubs have received each time Pie has been added to the roster. It may be a coincidence, but the Cubs' record in games in which Pie has appeared is 32-16, and 26-36 in all other games.

So this move ought to be a no-brainer today -- Soriano to the DL, Pie recalled. And one more move I'd make -- sign Jose Cruz Jr., who was waived by the Padres on August 1. His batting numbers were depressed by having Petco Park as his home park, and he has always hit LHP well (.276/.360/.464 lifetime). He could spell Floyd in LF or Jones in RF, and would give Lou a switch-hitting pinch-hit option.

About the two other significant events last night; first, Tom Glavine's 300th win. People are saying, again, that Glavine will be the "last" 300-game winner. "People" said this more than forty years ago after Early Wynn won his 300th game. There weren't any after that for a while, but Glavine is now the ninth pitcher to notch 300 wins since Wynn. It's an odd milestone in this sense -- the player accomplishing it doesn't necessarily have to be on the field when it happens, unlike a 3000th hit or 500th HR, and Glavine wasn't (and neither was Greg Maddux three years ago in San Francisco). The remnants of the Wrigley Field crowd (many of whom left after Will Ohman turned a still-close 5-3 game into a 7-3 game, and still more left when DeRosa accidentally hit plate umpire Marty Foster on a swing, causing a delay of a few minutes), a fair number of whom were Mets fans but also the Cub fans in attendance, gave Glavine a warm ovation after the last out, when he and his teammates celebrated on the field. I've now seen two of these (this one and Maddux', and I know Jeff and Jessica, who were both in SF in 2004 for Maddux', can say the same, but how many other fans can say this?) and despite the fact that I'd rather the Cubs had won, I was glad to have been a witness to this historic event.

The other significant event last night was the return to the mound of Kerry Wood for the first time in fourteen months. He got three ovations -- the first for warming up, the second when he trotted in from the bullpen (after everyone made sure it wasn't Bob Howry again), and another when his name was announced. Wood threw a scoreless inning, though I'd be less than truthful if I said it was "triumphant". His velocity was good, but he didn't have total command -- he went to a full count twice, and gave up a hit, throwing 8 strikes among his 14 pitches. That said, it was a good thing for him to get this first appearance out of the way and now he can move on to being a productive member of the bullpen.

Which is more than I can say for Will Ohman, who stunk again last night. Suddenly, Scott Eyre, who again had a scoreless appearance last night (the two walks were intentional), is the most effective lefty out of the pen.

This is what this club has done the last two months -- someone fails, someone else picks him up. It wasn't enough to win last night's game, but since the Brewers lost in a spectacular meltdown to the Phillies, blowing a 5-run 9th-inning lead, the Cubs remain only a game out of first place, going on the road on the same trip as Milwaukee (trading off opponents Houston and Colorado) where they've played well and the Brewers haven't.

Incidentally, the Cubs' +54 run differential is tied for best in the NL with San Diego, and despite the 36-21 run since June 2, the Cubs are still underperforming their Pythagorean projection by three games (should be 61-49 based on that).

So I'm still cautiously optimistic, but there's one important thing that still must be addressed: starting pitching, which seemed such a strength a month ago, is now shaky. Jason Marquis was mediocre last night -- he was getting the ground balls he needs to succeed, but they were all getting through for hits -- and with Rich Hill and Sean Marshall also shaky the last month, that leaves the Cubs with only two reliable, consistent, every-time-out starters. That's not enough. If there's a starting pitcher out there who's available at not too high a cost, the Cubs should make an effort to go get him.

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At least....
At least you got to watch history in person and didn't have to sit through the ESPN broadcast of Tom Glavine's family, narrated by the incoherant ramblings of Joe Morgan.

by hawkeyenation on Aug 6, 2007 8:52 AM CDT reply actions  

We were thinking about...
... starting a pool to see what time it would be before Morgan would say something negative about the Cubs.

What time was that, anyway?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Aug 6, 2007 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Too True
I forgot that since we aren't the Mets, Yanks, Sox or sometimes the Braves, and don't possess one of Joe's favorite "young" guys (see: Bonds, Griffey, Vlad) who are perhaps past their prime but are still "good" players no matter what they do, we don't get any love.

I didn't hear a lot come out of Joe's mouth about how bad the Cubs were last night. They were too captivated with every single movement Tom's parents or wife made. Of course, Joe would actually have to watch and comment on the game to say how bad Marquis really looked last night. Joe doesn't actually have to watch the game to say his completely neutral "opinion." The man makes Brenly look like an activist.

by hawkeyenation on Aug 6, 2007 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

agreed
I hate when the Cubs are on national TV -- especially ESPN -- but last night was even worse. It was like watching John Madden call a Packers game -- a lot of stroking for Glavine.

by Willgly on Aug 6, 2007 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

Probably
A few minutes after the Mets scored their first run.

Also Al, you may be interested...I wrote a recap on the ESPN announcing here for those who missed the game on TV.

"Oh, I get a little tired now and then, but knowing my lifestyle, that's only natural." -- Harry Caray

by Cribbs463 on Aug 6, 2007 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Was Tom Glavine mentioned?
n/t
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Aug 6, 2007 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

He played last night?
Couldn't have guessed.  All I saw was a boring game ...
"One of the worst writers on this board: !Neifi! didn't do it, honest."

by Littlerock Rynofan on Aug 6, 2007 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Did you hear John Miller
state last night that Wrigley Field "Was not built in the HD (Hi-Def) ERA"  

To which I just have to say "um...ya' think?"

Go Riverhawks!

by Neifi Puppy on Aug 6, 2007 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah
I heard that. As if ESPN is doing us a favor by broadcasting our quaint park in HD.

Normally, I can stomach those two, but last night I had a belly full.

Al, if I were a gambling man -- well, hell, I am, I would guess the word "Glavine" was said over 500 times last night. I bet his family -- wife, children, mom, and dad -- all told had about 30 minutes of air time. There was one point where in between EVERY PITCH it would switch to a camera on them.

"Oh, I get a little tired now and then, but knowing my lifestyle, that's only natural." -- Harry Caray

by Cribbs463 on Aug 6, 2007 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

My friend
My friend was expecting to see an exclusive interview with Glavine's dog done through an interpreter.
I just want the Cubs to top the Bears NFC Title Game as my highlight of the year.

by puckishcubsfan on Aug 6, 2007 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Favorite Jon Miller moment:
He calls Derrek lee "Carlos Lee," the corrects himself, saying that Carlos Lee plays just up north, for the Brewers. Ye gods. Morgan and mIller might be the most vacuous announcing duo this side of Stockton and Baldinger.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Aug 6, 2007 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, haha
This was a good one too. Thanks to Aaron for posting this in the game thread:

ESPN had this on their front page of the web site during the 7th inning of the ball game when it was 5-1, and then we scored 2. I really wanted to win that one just for that reason alone. Can you find where they may have jumped the gun a bit?

"Oh, I get a little tired now and then, but knowing my lifestyle, that's only natural." -- Harry Caray

by Cribbs463 on Aug 6, 2007 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Those two are the absolute worst
duo I've ever heard. Morgan is a known Cubs hater, and Miller is a few sandwiches short of a picnic. ESPN on the whole pretty much sucks for us Chicagoans. Even during Bears season, we have to listen to that known Bears hater Theisman.
"We've got Wood!"

by lostinthevines on Aug 6, 2007 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Switched to radio support
After a few innings of the the dynamic duo on ESPN, I had to shut off the sound and put on WGN gameday audio despite the delay.  You know my picture last night was even worse that usual.  I can't fathom how ESPN retains these two year in and year out for this long.  I guess Pat and Ron would be too expensive.

by Cajuncub on Aug 6, 2007 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

I usually...
 try to stay off the fire Joe Morgan bandwagon, but last night was just too much. Is Marquis a good hitter, or isn't he? And how does that change within one at-bat? Carlos Lee back in Milwaukee? Luis Castillo was a career Twin? Huh? It's harder to bunt a high fastball than a low one? Since when?

  If the casual fan can't tune into a program and expect to get accurate basic facts, it's time for you to change your broadcasters.

by Damen Jackson on Aug 6, 2007 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Izturis
Heck, one of the first comments Morgan made during the Cubs lineup announcement was something to the effect of Izturis being on the bench (still) because Theriot won his job.

by rgonzale on Aug 6, 2007 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah,
I just said that about 10 minutes ago. Read up, my man!

Y'know, having moved out of Chicago several years ago, there's nowhere to get good sports programming anymore. ESPN, as we all know, is a poor excuse for a sports station. They are MTV now; it's all about the entertainment and the spectacle, less about the games, the action. I live in Michigan, so I can't even indulge in Comcast Sportsnet or whatever, because for me it's all Tigers and Lions and Red Wings. Yikes!

I really miss the days, y'know, back in the 80s, when you could watch a sports report and see a ton of highlights from the days games with no BS, overstory, or even a point of view hammered into you. I can't imagine most sports fans wanting what ESPN is dishing out.

"Mine, mine, says the squirrel to the transformer, unclear on the capacities of electricity." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Aug 6, 2007 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Those were the good ol' days
When Stuart Scott wasn't injecting each highlight with his fake urbanisms.

Impression time! You guess who this is:

"V-Guerrero, GET AT ME DAWG!!!! He's all swole up with his 23rd jack of the season"

<left eye drifts off about 2 inches to the left>

"Oh, I get a little tired now and then, but knowing my lifestyle, that's only natural." -- Harry Caray

by Cribbs463 on Aug 6, 2007 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

I didn't tune in until the 6th...
...but I did catch Miller's comment about "all the classy Cubs fans cheering for Tom Glavine", and Morgan replying with a condescending chuckle -- "Well, they need SOMETHING to cheer about!"
And PRINT it!

by SilkyD on Aug 6, 2007 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

That said...
Listening to the game on the radio, and then watching it when I finally go home, you never really got the sense the Cubs were in the game. Marquis just doesn't have any presence out there on the mound. Neither does Ohman. I think that is what is killing Hill, Marquis, Ohman, Dempster and Wuertz. When they get out there they don't carry themselves like they are winners. They go out there like a camel needing one more straw to break his back, whether that straw be a boarderline call they don't get or a home run they give up. Of course, this presence isn't everything, as we've seen with Marshall. You not only have to carry yourself like a winner, you have to pitch and battle like one, and as of right now those 5 pitchers just aren't battling.

by hawkeyenation on Aug 6, 2007 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agree
Paraphrasing K. Costner in Bull Durham,  several of our pitchers "have million dollar arms and 10 cent heads".

Marquis inability to finish innings is exasperating.  But he certaintly isn't the only Cubs hurler guilty of this problem.  How many times lately have we gotten two quick outs only to then see our pitchers unable to get off the mound until after runs are scored and their pitch count balloons?

by wrigley1 on Aug 6, 2007 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

I was at the game last nite....
....and the only time I really felt we were in it was during the bottom of the 7th when we cut the lead to two runs.  Unfortunately, Ohman couldn't keep us close....

by cubboy89 on Aug 6, 2007 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

I love Me Joe Morgan
What a clown..... he said a couple of times Castillo was not familar with Wrigley since he was a Minn Twin in the AL  .....  Who did he think the Castillo was that was playing 2nd
base for the Marlins every time they visted
Wrigley ????????????????????

by FlaCub on Aug 6, 2007 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Morgan
"It's not the wind -- the ball always moves back to the left in right field at Wrigley.  The wind always blows it back that way." Joe Morgan, last night.

by cajuncubbie on Aug 6, 2007 8:59 AM CDT reply actions  

Wow.
That makes absolutely no sense.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Aug 6, 2007 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Welcome to Joe Morgan's world...
try reading his chats online.  It's a bunch of incoherent rambling and contradictions.  And he NEVER actually analyzes anything.  He's just a worthless employee of ESPN at this point.

by SouthernCub on Aug 6, 2007 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ah yes
One of my favorite websites, which I'm sure you've all seen.

firejoemorgan.com

Every single chat seriously blows my mind. And not in a good way.

by hawkeyenation on Aug 6, 2007 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh yeah, my other favorite
I think on that same play he was saying that Castillo was having trouble with the wind last night because he had played in the American League and people over there don't have that kind of wind. Nevermind that he spent almost his entire career in the NL with Florida. Joe doesn't let such silly things as facts get in the way of what he thinks.

by hawkeyenation on Aug 6, 2007 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

Guys like
Morgan and McCarver are hired for one reason: their voice. It's unfortunate that both of them were blessed with first-class announcing voices, yet posess pigeon-level intellect.
Tinker to Evers to Chance.

by Matt Allison on Aug 6, 2007 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Voice?
Morgan sounds like a drunk. I haven't put myself through a McCarver broadcast in a long while.

by hawkeyenation on Aug 6, 2007 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Moments of Truth
With Soriano out we'll get a chance to see what our team is made of.  The psychological impact is probably worse.   Yet, this incident could also set a few players on fire.  Murton wanted a chance and he's gonna get it. D-Lee has his leadership role returned to him. Floyd has to produce along with JJ.  Any word on Ward ?  With Wood back will Marmol move to closer and Dempster back to starting such that was rumored earlier in the year?  I keep thinking about what is going through Lou's head right now.   One thing is for sure, I don't get the impression he's giving up.

by coral on Aug 6, 2007 9:06 AM CDT reply actions  

concerned
I am more concerned about Marquis and pitching than with Soriano being out. I feel like Soriano hasn't really been contributing a whole lot anyway the last month. I am more worried that Marquis keeps getting knocked around. And Hill. Zambarno and Lilly are machines and Sean marshall is better than his stats show.

I think the Cubs need to focus on getting a long relief guy or going out and picking up another starter.

by Willgly on Aug 6, 2007 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

I can usually stomach Joe Morgan
But the ESPN crew hit a new all-time low last night.  Very little game action.  The amount of camera time to what was happening on the field could not have been much more than 50%.  No talk about the Cubs, except as a sidenote.  You'd think that the Mets were playing themselves.  A lot of discussion on the fantastic New York Mets, Glavine, Glavine's wife (a lot of nice shots of her which were btw nice on the eyes), two hundred shots of Glavine's kids, three hundred shots of Glavine's parents, a boring and too-long phone call with John Smoltz of the Braves, talk of Joe Morgan's fantastic big league history, discussion of who Joe Morgan played with and against during his rookie season, yada yada yada.  I had to turn off the sound, something which I never do.

by zevkalman on Aug 6, 2007 9:06 AM CDT reply actions  

No offense...
but the 300-win thing is a much bigger deal than the game itself.  I'd be the vast majority of people watching the game were watching to see Glavine's 300th win, not to see if the Cubs or Mets would win the game.

ESPN was just guiding their coverage toward what the majority would want.  Sucks for us, but that's the way the media works.  "300 wins" is a huge story.  "Mets win a game" or "Cubs win a game" isn't really that important.

by SouthernCub on Aug 6, 2007 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Makes sense.....
Gearing your coverage towards what the fans want makes sense. Seems pretty "Now."

by hawkeyenation on Aug 6, 2007 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

"Now"
LOL
"Dad gum right this games gonna be played under protest. . . I guarantee this is gonna be one protest that's upheld." --Hawk Harrelson, 6/24/07

by RynoHoF on Aug 6, 2007 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ha
glad someone got that.

by hawkeyenation on Aug 6, 2007 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

True
But ESPN takes it too far.  They hit you over the head with their prepackaged story to the detriment of the live action on the field.  Their Ombudsman wrote a pretty good article about this.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=schreiber_leanne&id=2897260

by cubsbak on Aug 6, 2007 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Good point...
that's very media-like, wringing every last drop of sentiment out of the event into their coverage.

It doesn't help that Joe Morgan did the game.  I'm pretty sure he doesn't even watch the games he's broadcasting at this point.

by SouthernCub on Aug 6, 2007 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly
That ombudsman (actually woman) should really run that company. I don't know when exactly it started, but I can't take that network anymore. I know that "Who's Now?" was really the kicker for me as to when it was too much, but watching SportsCenter used to be a ritual for me before/after class when I was in school and now after work since I graduated. I'd rather watch the Comcast recaps now. It's seriously unbearable.

by hawkeyenation on Aug 6, 2007 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sportscenter, Baseball Tonight, etc...
all used to be worthwhile shows.  For some reason (probably the explosion of the internet) ESPN went away from presenting the stories and fully to fluff pieces and "analysis" of the stories.

by SouthernCub on Aug 6, 2007 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Very seldom
do I watch SportsCenter. Since my favorite teams are in Chicago I watch CSN most of the time.
I love this team!!!!!

by sue369 on Aug 6, 2007 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Same here...
I haven't watched SportsCenter in years.  CSN is clearly a better option.  Heck, I don't even watch ESPN unless a Cubs game is on.
Go Riverhawks!

by Neifi Puppy on Aug 6, 2007 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

More like, "Who's Jumped the Shark"?
And the answer, of course, would be Sportscenter.

I travel a lot for work, and Sportscenter used to be the first thing I'd try to find on my hotel TV. But this "Who's Now" crap takes the concept of witless filler to a whole new level, and I feel like I'm rapidly losing brain cells every time I watch the show. Who's (not watching) now? Um, that would be me...

And PRINT it!

by SilkyD on Aug 6, 2007 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

celebs
I watched Sportscenter last week they did this little Celeb spotting type thing talking about Tony Parker and Eva Longoria going to soem movie premier, Beckham and Posh gong shopping, and Mia Hamm and Nomar teaching soccer to some kids. It was like i was watching Extra or E! News or some crap.

by Willgly on Aug 6, 2007 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

That 's a wonderful column ...
And enough said.

--t.

"One of the worst writers on this board: !Neifi! didn't do it, honest."

by Littlerock Rynofan on Aug 6, 2007 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

I was disappointed
in Marquis last night. The thought of him starting ten or so more times this season gives me hives. Ohman makes me nauseous. I don't understand why Lou leaves him in there when he obviously doesn't have it.

One thing I have noticed about this team this year is when there is an injury the others step up and they go on. I don't think they will miss Soriano much. I hope Murton gets a chance to play in left field.

It was nice to see Wood get the ovations he got last night. It would have been nice to have CSN or WGN do the game. At least they would have known the ovation was for Wood and not for Glavine.

I have been a big supporter of Len & Bob all season and after having to listen to ESPN last night I appreciate L&B so much. If either of you are reading this site I love you guys.

I love this team!!!!!

by sue369 on Aug 6, 2007 9:18 AM CDT reply actions  

Sue ...
I'm in agreement with you about Marquis.  I can well see how he was left off the Cardinals' WS roster last year.  People can spin it all they want, but he has just sucked of late.  The ASB seems to close the season on him ...

--t.

"One of the worst writers on this board: !Neifi! didn't do it, honest."

by Littlerock Rynofan on Aug 6, 2007 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Whoa!!!!!!!
Come on Al!  You won't miss him?  Even if he is slumping (post All Star Game), he is better than ANY OTHER option this team has.  Curious:  If you think you won't miss him how does the rest of the contract make you feel?

As for a replacement, Cruz Jr. could work.  IMHO, the best option is through waivers IF a player reaches the Cubs.  Again, I still do not believe Hendry has the authority to add payroll, which would kill any deal before it starts......

RIP kerrysotherwife!!!!

by timeforachange on Aug 6, 2007 9:19 AM CDT reply actions  

Hey timeforachange...
Regarding your sig line, kerrysotherwife has come back as cubstoseriesby100. Check out her latest diary here.
Brew Crew: We have arrived -- now step aside.

by daver on Aug 6, 2007 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

LMAO!!!!!!!!!
After almost a month away from this site, I was hoping she would come back.  Hate speech I say, hate speech...........
RIP kerrysotherwife!!!!

by timeforachange on Aug 6, 2007 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm hoping
we get to see what a month of Theriot and Fontenot going 1-2 in the lineup looks like...a contemporary Daily Double? I'd also like to see a bit of Murton in the two-hole vs. LHP. If he can get back to making contact, he types as a nice no. 2 hitter, IMO.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Aug 6, 2007 9:24 AM CDT reply actions  

Well
A very poor man's Daily Double.  Those guys are fine but neither of them can hit like Sandberg, neither can run like Dernier, let alone Sandberg, and while Theriot is having a good run at SS, Fontenot certainly can't be mistaken for Sandberg at 2B.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. -- Lee Constantine Elia, 1983.

by krummy12 on Aug 6, 2007 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

True.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Aug 6, 2007 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

1-2
With Fontenot's promblem with lefties and Theriot's with righties, you would be guaranteeing a bad match up every day with one of your top two.  I think the Cubbies should consider swapping each of them in the leadoff spot depending on matchup, and having DeRosa in the 2 hole.  He needs to get a chance at more ABs.  

If Kendall continues to improve, he could be a great candidate as well.

by californiachicagoan on Aug 6, 2007 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just some optimism
Agreed that losing Soriano is a huge blow, but this will allow others to step it up a little. Hopefull Pie will be recalled (a no-brainer) and the other OF's will get an opportunity to play.

by crw89 on Aug 6, 2007 9:24 AM CDT reply actions  

So if that's the plan...
...can we send Murton back down to Iowa and get the 13 man bullpen we so desperately need?

And I really wish I knew how serious I was about that idea.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 6, 2007 9:25 AM CDT reply actions  

Murton
Murton's 3 for 11 since being recalled with 2 walks.   And he's 2 for 4 in the only game that he started?   If he doesn't get the playing time he can't put up the numbers.   He was one of the hotest hitters  with power at Iowa at the time of the recall.  Its time to give him a real shot with Soriano down (and his "natural" position of LF being available.)

by frustratedfan on Aug 6, 2007 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Witness to History
Actually, you were the one who said that you wanted to see history over a Cub win when you started cheering for the no-no against the Cubs a few years back.  I just called you out on that.

As to "weak mental makeup," what would you say is the cause for a guy who allows his position in the field and batting order affect his approach at the plate?

But, thanks for the kudos.  Soriano wasn't that much of a halp to the Cubs in any month other than June.  His absense won't hurt them.  This is likely the final nail in the "Jim Hendry Incompetance" coffin as, if the team does better with Pie, Theriot and Fontenot, what the hell did they need to give Soriano, Jones and DeRosa big bucks?

by Ivychat on Aug 6, 2007 9:26 AM CDT reply actions  

I figured you might show up.
I never said I'd rather see a no-hitter than a Cubs win. I did say that in a game that the Cubs were trailing 7-0 in the second inning that it might have been interesting to see that loss, which was pretty much in the books by then, be something historic. Here's the post in question, for those of you who missed this little tiff.

There's a difference. You "called me out" on something I didn't say.

I wonder if Soriano would be hitting any differently if he were hitting fifth. You might say he'd have more RBI, but it seems to me he's come up many times with RISP and failed this year, even batting first. His BA is above his career average and his OPS of .847 is above his career OPS of .837. But he just doesn't seem to be having a very good year.

Chuck, nice to see you here, really. You and I agree more than we disagree, I've discovered. C'mon back out to the bleachers soon.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Aug 6, 2007 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Soriano did not have a particularly...
...impressive July, going .265/.276/.425. That's not great but not horrible, and one of the few sources of isolated power on this team. Still, you get the feeling -- especially after last night's injury -- that he could have used a day off or so. Hindsight is 20/20, though, so I don't know how much I blame Lou.
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 6, 2007 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Whoa.
Derosa has been huge for this team. His versatiility alone has covered a multitude of wrongs. As big as the hole in RF is, imagine it w/o Derosa on this team. Perhaps Soriano and Jones were bad deals (though for Soriano's deal it's too early to gauge, IMO), but Derosa's has looked like a bargain to this point. Moreover, it's good for guys like Theriot and Fontenot to be exposed to guys like Derosa, a team-oriented, do-you-job type of guy will be a good influence on these guys going forward.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Aug 6, 2007 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

A little over-zealous
Al, I agree (stated in the Soriano Down thread) that I've been very underwhelmed by Soriano in recent weeks. And other than the single against the Rockies, I can't recall a single hit by Soriano that came at an absolute clutch time. He's got 42 RBI, I know he's the leadoff guy, but for his pricetag, that kind of production is pretty bad.

But to say that the Cubs won't miss him is a bit much. As sad as it is, his 18 HRs lead the team. He was finally starting to steal some bases and he saves some runs with his arm in LF. I'm not heartbroken, and I think that the only way that this team stumbles is if they lose their confidence after seeing him go down.

However, I look forward to having a guy with a better than .336 OBP at the top of the order for a change (wasn't Pierre's OBP in this range last year?). And Theriot at the top will still steal some bases, and he can actually work the count and give the team a good look at the stuff the pitcher has on the day.

Losing Soriano shouldn't spell the end of the season, I don't actually consider him to be a big impact player for the team. I'll take his solo homers, but would much rather see some big knocks with guys on base (homers or not) as opposed to the strikeouts that I've become accustomed to seeing. But it's not as though the team will be able to just shrug this off. He is still Alfonso Soriano, and he is still a presence in the box, even if we've been underwhelmed by his prodution thus far.

by WittyUserName on Aug 6, 2007 9:30 AM CDT reply actions  

Would it be too crazy of an idea...
... to hit Derrek Lee in the leadoff spot while Soriano is out?

Lee's not hitting for much power and he has a .414 OBA.

Thoughts?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Aug 6, 2007 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Another wacky idea.
Jason Kendall now has a .365 OBA as a Cub in 45 AB. He used to hit leadoff occasionally for the Pirates.

What about that idea?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Aug 6, 2007 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

I like Theriot
in the leadoff spot much better, but it might be worth trying Kendall up there while he's hot...
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Aug 6, 2007 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

What about...
... Theriot leading off and Kendall hitting 2nd?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Aug 6, 2007 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

I like it.
Especially the way Kendall's been hitting. I'd like to see Lou try some different things in that 2-hole, maybe try Murton and Fontenot there, was well. I think Sori's injury is going to give Lou a chance to really mix it up.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Aug 6, 2007 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

The one thing we do know is...
... Lou won't stand pat if something doesn't work.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Aug 6, 2007 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thank Goodness!
That's a complete--and welcome--180 from Dustydom ...!

Gotta have a hit and run combination out of the one and two men in the line-up.  Theriot and someone who makes a lot of contact.  In the past, relying on Soriano's big bat has been just nuts.

I like the idea of small ball.
--t.

"One of the worst writers on this board: !Neifi! didn't do it, honest."

by Littlerock Rynofan on Aug 6, 2007 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Me and my slow typing...
I'd go Theriot at leadoff and one of Fontenot/DeRosa/Kendall at the #2 spot.  Kendall's recent stretch at the plate has been solid, and he's a decent contact hitter with a patient eye at the plate.  I'd be okay with that.  And it'd keep some pop toward the bottom of the order if DeRosa moved down to 6th or 7th.

by SouthernCub on Aug 6, 2007 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe it's just me...
 but I'd like to see as few changes made to this team as possible during Soriano's abscence. I'd be just fine with sticking Murton or Fontenot (or whomever has their role increased now) at lead-off for a bit, and leaving the rest of the lineup intact.

by Damen Jackson on Aug 6, 2007 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah.
I've been campaigning all season to get The Riot in the leadoff spot.  Hopefully we'll see a little of that now.

by jshipp on Aug 6, 2007 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

I like this idea.
Kendall takes ALOT of pitches which a leadoff hitter does and Kendall also hangs in there eating some pitches up when he gets two strikes.  And by putting Kendall at the top that frees the 8th spot up for Pie.

To your previous idea, Lee is actually better suited at number 2, leadoff would put the team in a difficult spot with Ramirez being the only "true" power hitter.

by HIGGY on Aug 6, 2007 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think
Theriot needs to leadoff. His a great number two, but keeping stolen bases at the number one spot is pretty good. His speed makes calling for the hit-and-run that much better.

The tough spot to figure out is the 2 spot. The list is pretty much: DeRosa, Fontenot, Kendall, and maybe Murton. Murton isn't one of Lou's favorites so he's probably out. I don't really like the idea of DeRosa in the OF regularly, he should be at 2B, so that kind of bumps Fontenot out as he only plays 2B.

The leaves DeRosa and Kendall as solid #2 options for us. I like DeRosa hitting 6th and getting RBI chances, but I'd also like him hitting second. Kendall is a good OBP and contact guy, which is great for #2, but he's not exactly fast, which is an asset to have at the top of the order.

I guess I'd lean towards a lineup of:

1.Theriot SS

  1. Kendall C
  2. Lee 1B
  3. Ramirez 3B
  4. Floyd LF
  5. DeRosa 2B
  6. Jones/Murton RF
  7. Pie CF
The only thing that I don't like is back-to-back lefties at 7 and 8 with Jones and Pie, but I'd be overall pretty fine with that lineup.

by WittyUserName on Aug 6, 2007 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Other option
The other option would be without Pie. Just start Floyd in LF, Jones in CF, and Murton in RF.
  1. Theriot SS
  2. Murton RF or DeRosa 2B
  3. Lee 1B
  4. Ramirez 3B
  5. Floyd LF
  6. DeRosa 2B or Murton RF
  7. Jones CF
  8. Kendall C
I know that we all expect Pie to be recalled with Soriano going down, but will he really be able to beat out Murton / Jones for offensive prodution? It's just a thought and I'm pretty positive that he gets the call up, but I think I lineup like this is fairly realistic.

by WittyUserName on Aug 6, 2007 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not to quote Dusty
but Kendall would really clog the bases.

This is tabletop baseball, but back when I played a lot in the 1980s, someone (sometimes even me!) would always come up with the idea to bat Mike Scioscia leadoff.  Good OBP, makes contact.  The problem was that Scioscia was so damn slow that it took three singles to get him home. If he was on third, he wasn't going to score on a sac fly.  And if anyone after Mike hit a hard grounder, Mike wasn't going to break it up at second.

When Kendall was younger, I think he had enough speed to make it work.  Now he's Mike Scioscia running around the bases.

by Josh Timmers on Aug 6, 2007 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Interesting idea...
but I think the only way I would really agree to that is if Soriano was around batting third in his place. You put DLee in the third spot and suddenly the only home run threat, and clutch hitter, you have in the middle of the order is Aramis. I know Lee hasn't hit as many homers as we all would like this year, but he comes through with clutch hits and gets on base in key situations in front of Ramirez a lot. I think if you moved him up to the first spot it would create a whole new batch of problems in the middle of our order. At this point we just don't have the power/consistancy from enough guys in the middle of the lineup to afford moving someone from there.

by hawkeyenation on Aug 6, 2007 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not too crazy...
...though half of his 12 HRs he's hit since the All Star break, so he is getting his power stroke back a bit.

by John Q Freejazz on Aug 6, 2007 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not crazy, but...
who hits 3rd then?  I think that just redistributes the problem from leadoff to the #3 spot.

Lee has been hitting for more power lately, and we are short on players with power.

I think I'd go with Theriot in the leadoff spot.  He's patient at the plate and has a solid OBP (better than Soriano, actually).  He's nothing spectacular, but I think he can handle that role.

In the #2 spot, there are a few options, although none are very exciting.  Fontenot or DeRosa could do it, and scarily enough even Kendall, who's been decent at the plate lately (11-30, 4 BB in his last 9 games), could be a short-term fill-in there.  And then we keep the #3 and #4 hitters in place.

by SouthernCub on Aug 6, 2007 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Depending on Where DeRosa Plays
I like the idea of stacking the top of the order with Theriot and DeRosa depending on where he plays in the field.  

If he's at 2B then he should hit 2nd.  If he's at 3B, he's probably spelling Aram - he should hit 5th.

If he's in RF, he's probably spelling Floyd or Lou wants to stack the lineup with righties vs. a Lefty - he should probably hit 2nd, 5th, or 6th.

Don't know about anyone else (and I like Fontenot just fine) but I'd rather see DeRosa in the infield a lot more for his solid glove work.  Of course that makes Fonty odd man out except when DeRosa plays 3B but so be it.

If the Cubs are going to pick up the slack without adding a bat, then they should stack their infield and outfield with the best possible defenders that they have.

There's always next year.

by BJ Simpson on Aug 6, 2007 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Soriano is very streaky...
I know he's batting somewhere around .300 (didn't check), but it seems like he gets all his hits in one game, then goes hitless the next two or three.

by WartburgCub on Aug 6, 2007 9:31 AM CDT reply actions  

Any hope of recalling Soto?
Soriano's injury makes it even more necessary for every position player to step up the offense.  Thankfully, Jason Kendall has found his swing lately, hitting .316/.435/.474 in the last 6 games.  I imagine, though, that he will not play every game.  And as it seems like Koyie Hill is no longer necessarily Z's personal catcher, is it worth replacing him with Geovany Soto?  

Soto continued his tear in Iowa last night, going 3-5 with a HR, 4 RBI and 2 runs.  His season line is now .345/.417/.631 with 19 HR and 76 RBI.

by John Q Freejazz on Aug 6, 2007 9:35 AM CDT reply actions  

its absolutely
ridiculous, to me, that he is still at iowa while koyie hill is in the majors, for really no apparent reason.  his defense is good, but it sure isnt good enough to mask his offense.

you have a CATCHER with 19 jacks in triple a with the season still going on, how do you not try to tap that offensive output for the big club?

Big Z on Cuban: "Plus, I can be signed by him. You know, I know he has the money for me. Hopefully he can buy the Cubs."

by kylejo on Aug 6, 2007 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Starting pitching...
Al, I think you're not exactly being truthful in lumping Marshall in with the other under-performing Cub starting pitchers - his last start was crap, but he's been solid for awhile now.  I'm not willing to throw him under the bus for one bad start.

That being said, I'd be interested to see the Cubs call up Gallagher as a temporary 6th starter - leave Z and Lilly pitch on their normal rest, but slot Gallagher in with Hill/Marquis/Marshall to give those guys some extra rest and save their arms.  I'm thinking a little extra rest for the starters here and there would be beneficial, even if it means carrying 13 pitchers for awhile (maybe for the month that Soriano is out?)

Come to think of it, that's exactly what I'd do: call up Gallagher with Soriano on the DL. Give Floyd/Murton LF, play Pagan/Jones in CF, and platoon Jones/DeRosa in RF.  Go with a short bench (Cedeno, Murton, Pagan, Hill) for two weeks, and see if we can rest our arms a little bit.

by Chadnudj on Aug 6, 2007 9:37 AM CDT reply actions  

That's ...
... a REALLY short bench. It gives you, basically, three pinch-hitters/substitutes, since the fourth guy is your other catcher and you don't really want to use him except in an emergency.

If the pitching staff keeps failing like this, you could find yourself without any pinch-hitters in the 8th and 9th innings when you really need them.

I'm not crazy about the 12-man staff. A 13-man pitching staff ... wow, no way, IMO.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Aug 6, 2007 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

But....
We do have Z and Marquis who can definitely make some contact with the ball and could be used as pinch hitters early in the game.

by HIGGY on Aug 6, 2007 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Although Zambrano could be considered another
pinch hitter.  His average is better than a lot of Cubs hitters.  I'm also in favor of bringing up Soto and moving K. Hill.  When will we know when/if Pie is brought up?

by zevkalman on Aug 6, 2007 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Zambrano...
... isn't that great as a PH, since it seems that when he does that (as opposed to when he starts and gets 3 AB in a game), he tries to hit a 900-foot HR with every swing.

Marquis is a better contact hitter.

But do you really want them on the bench as PH options in every game they don't start? That's asking a lot.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Aug 6, 2007 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

Gallagher
I'm not opposed to the idea of bringing up Gallagher.  Marquis especially has become worrisome as the #3 starter.  One of his alleged strengths was that he's an innings eater, yet he's been having a hard time going much more than 5 innings lately.

by John Q Freejazz on Aug 6, 2007 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure Gallagher...
would be an upgrade over Marquis.  He's struggled in nearly every outing he's had in the big leagues, albeit it's not a long history.

Clearly, though, Marquis is a problem at this point.  He's not providing much quality in the rotation.  He's gotten worse each month, and has just 2 solid starts in his last 13 appearances.

It may be worth a shot to give Gallagher a chance (as we don't have any other alternatives).  I'm just not very confident that Gallagher will provide us much more than Marquis at this point.

by SouthernCub on Aug 6, 2007 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Tonight
I'll be at the Juice Box with spectacular seats - Section 212, Row 1.  Still in San Antonio right now and will make the drive this afternoon.  While I'm disappointed I won't get to see Soriano in the game, I remember the last Cubs/Astros game I attended, where the Cubs were forced to make a short notice call-up from AAA, albeight for a totally different reason.  

The result of that game of course was Ryan O'Malley making a spectacular major league debut and Michael Barrett providing the only run of the game, a left field home run.

Here's to making Wandy Rodriguez look like Jason Jennings!!!

Tinker to Evers to Chance!

by sanantonecub on Aug 6, 2007 9:42 AM CDT reply actions  

Hey...
... enjoy the game, and post a diary when you get back.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Aug 6, 2007 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Will do
And should be bringing my camera, so will probably be able to post a link to some pictures if I get any good ones.
Tinker to Evers to Chance!

by sanantonecub on Aug 6, 2007 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Or
let's make him look like Marquis, Ohman, Dempster, you name em, we got em.
MMMMM...Hebrew National

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 6, 2007 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lets see now
Marquis - Has still pitched a pretty decent season overall.  Nothing wrong with last night.

OhMan - Point taken.

Dempster - Lately, point taken.  However, I still have faith in him.  He's still pitched overall a good season.

At the same time though, Jason Jennings is currently the only pitcher to of given up 11 runs in two outs...

Tinker to Evers to Chance!

by sanantonecub on Aug 6, 2007 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Nothing wrong with last night?
He gave up 12 baserunners (5 doubles) in 5.1 IP.  He gave up 5 earned runs.  I'd say that last night was pretty poor.  Since his fantastic April and strong May, Marquis has the following ERAs by month:

June: 5.09
July: 6.29
August (1 start): 8.44

Not one of those months is acceptable, and they are trending in the wrong direction.  The only reason his season doesn't look awful is because of what he did 3 months ago.

by SouthernCub on Aug 6, 2007 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd call up
Soto along with Pie, and send Koyie Hill down.  The Cubs need hitting to replace Soriano's bat, and Soto has nothing more to prove in AAA.  I like Hill's defense and pitch calling, but he's another pitcher at the plate.  Kendall can help bring Soto along.  He looked very good defensively in the two games he caught as a Cub.

by Clark Addison on Aug 6, 2007 9:43 AM CDT reply actions  

Hill...
... is out of options. He'd have to clear waivers, and despite his poor BA, I'd bet he wouldn't.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Aug 6, 2007 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure he wouldn't clear waivers...
but I think it's irrelevant either way because I don't think Piniella is going to let him be DFAed.  With Kendall now hitting, Hill is a good option as a backup catcher (solid defensively).

by SouthernCub on Aug 6, 2007 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

But with the bench such as it is...
...every bat counts.  And it's hard to justify an OPS of less than .500, especially when you have Soto raking it in AAA.

by John Q Freejazz on Aug 6, 2007 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

You don't normally use your backup C...
as a bat off the bench.  That's why most backup catchers are good defensively and no one worries about their bat.  They start maybe 25% of the games and rarely pinch hit, so the bat is a secondary consideration.

I'm not saying Soto isn't a better option than Hill.  I just doubt that Lou will rock the boat and get rid of Hill as a backup catcher.

by SouthernCub on Aug 6, 2007 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah
I hear ya, good point.  Although Kendall is going to need to have a day off occasionally, and on those days I think Soto would be a much better option than Hill.

by John Q Freejazz on Aug 6, 2007 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

So that means...
...that he'd have to be traded?  I can imagine worse things than letting go of a .153/.221/.271 hitter.

by John Q Freejazz on Aug 6, 2007 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't know who'd claim him...
...and I don't know why we'd stop them.

This isn't idle speculation on my part, either. The Yankees DFA'd Wil Nieves after he hit .164/.190/.230 on the year and they were able to trade for something better. Nieves cleared waivers and is playing in Scranton right now. I don't see how Koyie Hill is anything radically better than Nieves, such that we'd lose him to a waiver claim.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 6, 2007 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly
Soto is raking.  Let Kendall groom him and let's move on from the K. Hill experiment.  If someone claims him - just take the best minor leaguer that they can swing and call it a good trade.
There's always next year.

by BJ Simpson on Aug 6, 2007 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Do they usually wait
until right before the game to announce the transactions?

by jshipp on Aug 6, 2007 9:46 AM CDT reply actions  

That depends...
... on when the transaction is made. Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Aug 6, 2007 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ohman
I was a little surprised how difficult it was for Lou to contain his anger when he walked up towards Ohman, and blithely waved his hand towards him.  He was clearly pissed at him last night.  Was this the straw that breaks the camel's back?  Does anyone think that Lou will do to Ohman what he did to Barrett (get rid of him)?

by zevkalman on Aug 6, 2007 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not that suprised
Someone needs to tell Ohman to pull his head out of his butt.

by hawkeyenation on Aug 6, 2007 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ohman - Lefties only!
Lou does not seem to get that Ohman is a lefty specialist.  He brings him in with a switch hitter who will bat righty, and a nasty righty in David Wright.  So after he gets in trouble with those two, he can face their best lefty, Delgado, with men on, with shaken confidence, in a tight spot.  How does this make sense?  Ohman is not Eyre from last year.  You do not just toss him in for an inning.  Lefties only!

He should have put Wuertz in to face Castillo and Wright, and then Ohman for Delgado.

by californiachicagoan on Aug 6, 2007 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Witness...BLECH!
I am absolutly upset that I saw "history" last night.  I, for one, am of the opinion that if the player isn't wearing Cubbie Blue, I don't root for him in any way shape or form.  I have had some discussions of this matter with Jessica in the past, her calling me very cold hearted, but thats just how I feel.  

I have been asked in the past that if the Cubs are losing and there is a perfect game being thrown, wouldn't you like to see "history"?  I say a resounding NO!  I root for the Cubs and I always hope the other team is terrible.  I don't ever want to see "history" at the expense of the Cubs.  In the 40 years I have been going to games, I have always felt this way and I will not change my feelings on this.

I did not stand to give Glavine an ovation when he walked off the field...hell, thats the pitcher who was shutting down the Cubs.   I left after the ump was hit because a)I had a very long ride home and I get up very early and b)who needs to see the Mets of all teams celebrate on our field.  So I say, witness to history???  Count me among the ones who were upset to see it happen at Wrigley last night.

Kasey

by kaseyi on Aug 6, 2007 9:46 AM CDT reply actions  

I don't think there is anything wrong
With showing respect towards an opposing teams player, especially at a milestone such as 300 wins.  

However, that doesn't mean you have to give him a cheery standing ovation like he just pitched the game for you.  If I was at the ballpark, I would of stood to show respect when he was taken out of the game, and lightly clap after the game was over and the scoreboard flashed the news.

My college team, Nebraska, has a tradition that after every game, no matter the score, the stadium claps for the opposing team as they head off the field for the final time.  Even if they beat us.  I like this - during the game, boo all you want, yell profanities, get inside their head however you can, but after the game is over, show respect to them for being a worthy opponent, and if you see one of their fans, buy 'em a beer.  

Tinker to Evers to Chance!

by sanantonecub on Aug 6, 2007 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Please...
no profanities.
"Dad gum right this games gonna be played under protest. . . I guarantee this is gonna be one protest that's upheld." --Hawk Harrelson, 6/24/07

by RynoHoF on Aug 6, 2007 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Count me in
to never wanting to see any Met celebration at Wrigley. That's about equal to the Redbirds celebrating at our place. I will always root for the Cubs especially if it prevents a no-no by the opposing team.

by billybuck on Aug 6, 2007 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

I have a feeling that Murton gets no playing time
I could see

Floyd LF
Pie CF
Jones RF

That really isn't a bad lineup really if all of those guys could start hitting for power (except Pie). I still think Murton should be platooning in both RF and LF if that is what will happen..

Now that he is back, play Matt Murton!!

by Chanman25 on Aug 6, 2007 9:50 AM CDT reply actions  

I feel
your pain. I guess we'll just have to see what happens.
I love this team!!!!!

by sue369 on Aug 6, 2007 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

its funny
you mention "if all those guys oculd start hitting for power (except pie)" and of the five guys, id say murton and pie have the best chance of finding a power stroke from here on out.
Big Z on Cuban: "Plus, I can be signed by him. You know, I know he has the money for me. Hopefully he can buy the Cubs."

by kylejo on Aug 6, 2007 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

eric patterson
cubs.com is reporting that patterson is expected to be called-up. just what the cubs need, another poor defensive outfielder.
"If you'da been thinkin you wouldn't 'a thought that." ~~ "Squints" Palledorous

by rm463 on Aug 6, 2007 9:53 AM CDT reply actions  

Really now.
E-Pat's a second baseman, but he's been playing the outfield recently - he played center last night. This is... interesting.
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 6, 2007 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

He'd fill the need for a leadoff man...
as he's been leading off all season.  If true, it would be interesting, to say the least.  I wonder if he'd play 2B, CF, or LF.

by SouthernCub on Aug 6, 2007 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe you pull a DeRosa with him...
...and cycle him between the three positions -- put him in left when you want to start Fontenot, put him at second when DeRosa's at third, put him in center when you want to spell Jones. It does give you some options, although (and I have no clue here) I don't know what that does to a guy making his major-league debut.
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 6, 2007 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

All of this, of course....
...assumes that Patterson will play, which is not exactly a guarantee. It'll be interesting to see what Lou does with him.

I just hope nobody does a freakout if they see "Patterson, CF" in the leadoff spot in the lineup. Deja vu much?

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 6, 2007 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

What would be the point...
... of cycling two players (Patterson and DeRosa) like this?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Aug 6, 2007 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lou seems to have a very Earl Weaver-esque...
...need to play matchups and monkey with the lineup. Patterson is versatile enough to let him do some of that (which is the stated reason for having Patterson play in the outfield this year). I don't know that Lou will do this, but it is an option.
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 6, 2007 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

Can you provide the link?
I can't seem to find this on cubs.com

by SouthernCub on Aug 6, 2007 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Gotcha...
I didn't see it snuck into the subheadline, and it's not in the "full story" (which was probably posted last night).  Thanks, I see it now.

by SouthernCub on Aug 6, 2007 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't see this either.
Unless he's talking about the chatter on the cubs.com message board, which is just idle speculation.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Aug 6, 2007 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's mentioned
on the front page.  Click on cubs.com and read the caption.

by cubsbak on Aug 6, 2007 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

patterson in cf
IF patterson is called-up and plays cf, isn't that a swift kick in 'nads to pie?
"If you'da been thinkin you wouldn't 'a thought that." ~~ "Squints" Palledorous

by rm463 on Aug 6, 2007 9:57 AM CDT reply actions  

What, like calling up Jake Fox...
...wasn't a kick in the nuts to Murton and Soto? The organization doesn't seem to care. Although Hendry obviously no longer feels he has to hide his obsession with middle infielders.
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 6, 2007 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

yeah
but thats good, let him feel a little pain and hunger to make it back up here.  i love pie and would rather he be called up than patterson, but pie did have his shot already, and patterson deserves a shot of his own.
Big Z on Cuban: "Plus, I can be signed by him. You know, I know he has the money for me. Hopefully he can buy the Cubs."

by kylejo on Aug 6, 2007 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

truth be told
i couldn't care less if pie feels slighted...i was just saying.

if patterson gets called-up and produces that's paramount to hurting pie's feelings.

"If you'da been thinkin you wouldn't 'a thought that." ~~ "Squints" Palledorous

by rm463 on Aug 6, 2007 10:04 AM CDT reply actions  

I don't know anything about Patterson
other than he's Corey's brother and he was moved from second base to the outfield in the minor leagues.  Anyone have any info?  Is he a righty or a lefty?  What's his best/most likely position?  How's his defense?  Anyone out there seen this guy play?

by cubsbak on Aug 6, 2007 10:06 AM CDT reply actions  

Eric Patterson is very different...
...from his brother in several regards. CoPatt was regarded as a very introverted, nonsocial type that wasn't very coachable; E-Patt is supposed to be very outgoing and approachable.

As far as tangibles go, he still has played mostly second base in AAA Iowa this year, but has experience in the outfield in left and center (I don't think he's played right field). He's a patient hitter, takes walks and has shown a decent amount of pop in the minors. He's mostly batted leadoff or second in AAA this year.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 6, 2007 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

link
the reference to patterson being called-up was a one-liner in the body of the lead story:

...while top prospect Eric Patterson is expected to be recalled to replace an injured Alfonso Soriano.

that's the best i can offer.  

"If you'da been thinkin you wouldn't 'a thought that." ~~ "Squints" Palledorous

by rm463 on Aug 6, 2007 10:08 AM CDT reply actions  

Here's what another link there says...
... Carrie Muskat's story on the injury:
The Cubs could call up outfielder Felix Pie from Triple-A Iowa, move Theriot into the leadoff spot, and see if someone can pick up the offensive slack. All of that will likely be decided on the plane ride to Houston, where the Cubs will open a three-game series Monday night.

That seems more logical to me.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Aug 6, 2007 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

*sigh*
Unrelated to this, I just want to say that I think Carrie Muskat has a dream job.
"Oh, I get a little tired now and then, but knowing my lifestyle, that's only natural." -- Harry Caray

by Cribbs463 on Aug 6, 2007 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

I too
don't mind a swift kick in anyone's nuts if they can't earn their keep.  I would rather Pie get some more AB's but hell, screw the Dusty "don't want to hurt their feelings" Baker approach.
MMMMM...Hebrew National

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 6, 2007 10:08 AM CDT reply actions  

Kendall
he was the leadoff man for most of last year with the A's.  In about 375 ab's this is what he did:

avg. .301
OPB  .370
Walks  39
K's    39

I can live with these numbers.  He does something that Soriano doesn't do and thats take pitches, work the count, and walk more while striking out less.

PC load letter, what the f*** does that mean?

by cubfaninSTL on Aug 6, 2007 10:08 AM CDT reply actions  

I dont follow the logic on Patterson?
Why put one of your best prospect in this sitation? Pie has been here and has a clearly defined role and postion?
Let me get back to you, will ya, Charlie? I got a guy on the other line asking about some white walls.

by JB 23 on Aug 6, 2007 10:10 AM CDT reply actions  

I believe their thinking is
we saw Pie up here and he couldn't hit.  Let's see if Patterson can.  I think it's that simple.  

by TR on Aug 6, 2007 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed
They're giving Patterson his chance.  I like how Sweet Lou makes players earn their opportunities based on performance.

by cubsbak on Aug 6, 2007 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Calling up Patterson?
that doesn't make any sense. He is a natural 2B and hasn't played much OF in Iowa. Why not call up Pie, Coats, Kroeger?
Now that he is back, play Matt Murton!!

by Chanman25 on Aug 6, 2007 10:10 AM CDT reply actions  

Maybe because he's a leadoff hitter...
unlike Pie.  He's got speed and takes walks.  And we don't necessarily need a LF or CF to replace Soriano.  Though Patterson has played plenty of OF this year, so he could do that.

And, as someone else pointed out, maybe Patterson isn't expected to play regularly, so he doesn't want to screw Pie up.

Or maybe he just wants to see what Patterson can do, having already seen what Pie can do.

There are lots of possible explanations.

by SouthernCub on Aug 6, 2007 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm sure that Lou/Hendry had a talk...
...with the coaches in Iowa, and maybe they feel that Pie still hasn't made the adjustments that he was sent down there to make. Or maybe Lou wants to get a feel for E-Patt as Extended Spring Training coincides with the stretch run and September started back in June. It's hard to tell.
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 6, 2007 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

Im sure thats probably right.
Pie will be back up in September, along with Soto, anyway.

by jshipp on Aug 6, 2007 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree
Calling up Patterson seems to make little sense to me. It's a massive downgrade in defense. Just recall Pie, see if he can hit in the bigs this time, and let Theriot lead off.

then again, if EPat comes up, plays decent defense and has a massive two weeks with the bat, I'll happily be wrong.

My guess is that Soriano will be out for 15, pinch hit for a few games, and then be back full time. Say what you will about the guy, he wants to play EVERY day.

by SouthsideCub on Aug 6, 2007 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

what i saw last night.
first morgan is terrible, did anyone notice that on any close play he had to bring up the only reason the cubs won saturday was from a blown call.

why do we due poorly against lefties. well many that we have dont throw very hard. so why are we standing so far back in the box just helps to pitcher to get more late movement on the ball.  next look at floyd and fontenot they basically stand in the vistors dugout when they hit against a lefty.

most good lefty hitters crowd the plate against a left handed hitter, as a lefty who pitched in college, i can tell you its as awkward for a pitcher to face a left hitter and it is for the batter.  plus most lefties throw a ball that moves to the left, like a screw ball so it hard to throw inside to a lefty plus when throwing breaking stuff most again throw it so it curves into a right hander, its hard to start it at a left handed batter to break inside if a guy is crowding the plate, it just looks small to your eye.

most batters stand back in the box to get as much time to judge a pitch, if a guy is throwing 84/85 you have to move up a little to get your reaction time the same. most of the pitches we missed last night look like they needed a 9 iron to hit.

But then again it does help when the ump calls most every thing 6 inches off the plate, i almost got the feeling that he was wanting to part of the history as well, part of the reason he did not come out last night

by cubsfaninkc on Aug 6, 2007 10:18 AM CDT reply actions  

I was sitting behind the plate last night
and I didn't think the ump's strikezone was as bad as some I've seen recently.  I do remember one inning that if Ramirez and DeRosa hadn't swung, the Cubs would have had bases loaded with no one out on three straight walks.

by TR on Aug 6, 2007 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

k zone
they had derosas AB on k zone; that second strike was at least 6 inches off the plate, even morgan said that was a little too much off the plate to be called a strike

by cubsfaninkc on Aug 6, 2007 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

pie
i would much rather see pie patrolling cf than any other option.

in an effort to alleviate some of the pressure to produce offensively, it wouldn't hurt lou to inform pie that what is required is for him to perform defensively...that's it.

at this point in his young career, the cubs have to ride-out pie's offensive struggles in the stead of giving him a 15-20 game opportunity only to send back to iowa.  put pie in cf and keep him there for the forseeable future.

"If you'da been thinkin you wouldn't 'a thought that." ~~ "Squints" Palledorous

by rm463 on Aug 6, 2007 10:18 AM CDT reply actions  

Jacque Jones and Cliff Floyd...
...make that a difficult proposition to maintain.
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 6, 2007 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not necessarily.
First of all, we're only talking about right now -- right? What to do while Soriano is out, correct?

Jones might be dealable in the offseason.

Let's fix the here and now first.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Aug 6, 2007 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, but Soriano is going to...
...come back at some point, and then there's an outfield crunch all over again. And Pie is going to know that and pressure himself keep an outfield spot over one of those two. So long as we have six outfielders for three spots, it's almost inevitable that some of them are going to be pressing at any given time.
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 6, 2007 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe.... but September is close
They'll be able to expand the roster.
1-RUN GAMES = 15-17 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 29-25 | updated on 8/1

by SackMan on Aug 6, 2007 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

Dumb ballplayers
I'm not sure if the percentage of head-not-in-the-game players is higher on this team, but it looks like it to me.  Fontenot picking up a groundball on the wrong foot, making himself unable to throw home with the bags juiced.  Pagan lollypopping the ball back to the infield after catching the ball on the track, allowing the runner at first to take second (where Glavine drove him in from).  Catchers continue to be unable to get a throw down to second on the fly in time.  Three groundballs back through the box in the first few innings (Maddux would have had all of them).

Kerry Wood looked great, but I think he needs to eat a few cheeseburgers.  

by psennett on Aug 6, 2007 10:26 AM CDT reply actions  

patterson over pie, potentially
i understand that pie didn't hit while up, but he really wasn't given an extended opportunity to prove whether he can or can't.
"If you'da been thinkin you wouldn't 'a thought that." ~~ "Squints" Palledorous

by rm463 on Aug 6, 2007 10:27 AM CDT reply actions  

true
but accommodating floyd and jones makes no sense considering that neither one of them will serve as integral part of the cubs' future. incidentally,  neither of the two is a much better offensive option over pie.
"If you'da been thinkin you wouldn't 'a thought that." ~~ "Squints" Palledorous

by rm463 on Aug 6, 2007 10:31 AM CDT reply actions  

Bruce Levine on AM 1000
says:

--Soriano looking at a month on DL, maybe more

--Levine says E-Pat, not Pie being called up to play in the OF, not to play 2B

--Derosa likely to get bulk of RF playing time

--None of the Cubs options in RF have the "second gear" speed to get to balls in the gaps.

--Wavier deal unlikely because Levine says there's a lot of blocking going on right now. Apparently, the Orioles put Tejada on waviers, the Sox claimed him, but were blocked by someone.

--Gallagher Cubs' only option to add to the rotation. Says Hendry will try, but there are no starters to be had.

"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Aug 6, 2007 10:31 AM CDT reply actions  

And Levine's always been right, right?
I'm guessing at least half of this stuff is wrong.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Aug 6, 2007 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

He is a tool...
...but more often than not he is right. He also just said that during the 2006 season Zambrano's agent went to the Cubs front office and asked for a 4 year deal for only $38 million and the people above Hendry denied it. He said that is a fact.

by seang03 on Aug 6, 2007 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Then he's
calling Sullivan, Miles, Hendry, and Mcdonough all liars, because they have all commented/reported that no deal to Zambrano was yanked off the table.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Aug 6, 2007 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think you're referring to...
...the deal that was supposed to happen before this season started. Levine was talking about a 4 year extension that was proposed during the 06 season.

by seang03 on Aug 6, 2007 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ah.
Odd that Levine would bring that up now.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Aug 6, 2007 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

yeah...
...they could have had Zambrano for less than ten million a year during his prime but now will have to pay double that to retain him.

by seang03 on Aug 6, 2007 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hindsight
is 20/20. The Chicago sports media are masters of shaking the past in our faces and then finger-wagging their way onto "Around the Horn."
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Aug 6, 2007 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not only that but
They could have signed Prior to the same deal.  Maybe they were being careful.  That can cost you too.

by Kornchex on Aug 6, 2007 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Absolutely
The "out a month" comment seems more doom and gloom than reality, as it has been less than 24 hours since the injury and Soriano returned from his hamstring injury considerably faster than just about anyone thought he would.

by SouthsideCub on Aug 6, 2007 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah,
I was just getting the word out. I think Levine is overstating the futility of trying to get a wavier wire deal done and the paucity of starters on the market, but I think we will see E-Pat here instead of Pie, and I think Derosa is going to see the bulk of the time in RF. Lou doesn't seem to have a very high opinion of Murton and his awful AB last night can't have helped that opinion. Moreover, with either Pie or Patterson in CF, their speed can help cover up the sub-par range and speed of the other outfielders, so his comment about the lack of second gear speed in the OF is a red herring.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Aug 6, 2007 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Although DeRosa certainly needed
a second gear last night on that ball hit over his head and to his right.  By the time he realized how hfar it wascarrying, he didn't have the speed to make up for his slow loping start to the ball.  I don't care if the 1954 version of willie Mays was in center, he'd have been no help.

by TR on Aug 6, 2007 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

That was not a case
of a lack of speed, but more due to Derosa getting a horrible read on the ball off the bat. Granted some speed could make up for those mistakes, but he's gotta get a better read on the ball than he did last night.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Aug 6, 2007 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Considering he's a second baseman
I think that he deserves a pass on that read.  
Barry Bonds hits #755 off a guy suspended for steroid use in 2005

by jds2 on Aug 6, 2007 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree it was a bad read.
But someone with more speed could have made up for the mistake.

by TR on Aug 6, 2007 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

No, he's right.
Severe grade 3 quad strain, out a month or more.
http://www.sportsinjuryclinic.net/cybertherapist/front/frontthigh/quadstrain.htm

Patterson more of a lead-off guy than Pie, ho hasn't proved that he can hit in the majors.

Unless they get a power-hitting outfielder (doubtful at this time) DeRosa is Lou's platoon guy and has played RF a lot. He'll certainly play more.

There's a lot of blocking on waivers. The Tejada block was a story by Buster Olney last night on Baseball Tonight.

It's positive that Hendry is thinking about getting someone up to start games (Gallagher) and thinking about who's available for the OF after clearing waivers.

by Fraggin Judge on Aug 6, 2007 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Something else that just occured to me...
...Pie was taken out of the lineup about a week ago with an injury of his own. Maybe the Cubs don't want to risk him aggravating his own injury hustling to keep a major-league job?
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 6, 2007 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

Bingo,, that has to be it..
The E Patt call up just doesnt make sense and that must be the reason he is coming up.
Let me get back to you, will ya, Charlie? I got a guy on the other line asking about some white walls.

by JB 23 on Aug 6, 2007 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Pie is playing now
If they wouldn't risk him in the majors becaues of injury, they sure as hell wouldn't risk him playing for Iowa,

by TR on Aug 6, 2007 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

So based on that...
one would assume that Patterson is being called up to not really play much, correct?

by SouthernCub on Aug 6, 2007 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

That seems odd
I would've thought a reason for calling up Patterson would be to put him in the leadoff spot so as not to disrupt the rest of the lineup.  Should be interesting.

by cubsbak on Aug 6, 2007 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

So what's the point, then?
If you're going to call a guy like this up, sitting him on the bench is the worst thing you could do. Sign Jose Cruz instead, and let Pagan and Jones play CF. Floyd & Murton & Cruz could rotate through RF and LF.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Aug 6, 2007 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd rather see the Cruz
signing, as well. You get a guy with ML experience, with playoff experience, and you keep your prospects in AAA getting regualr AB's. If it doesn't work out, you can always bring up E-Pat with the September callups.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Aug 6, 2007 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree
I'd be surprised if Patterson rots on the bench.  I think Sweet Lou will at least give the guy a few starts to see what he can do.

by cubsbak on Aug 6, 2007 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree too...
if you're calling him up, it would seem that you'd want to see what he can do.  Although most of our recent callups (Fox, Moore, Cedeno, Murton) have seen very little time, so I wouldn't be surprised if Patterson just sat on the pine.

I was just guessing based on the comments by Levine.  If DeRosa is seeing most of the time in RF, then LF would theoretically be manned by Floyd and Murton, and CF by Jones and Pagan, right?

Of course, it could be that Levine is just speculating out of his ass, too.

by SouthernCub on Aug 6, 2007 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Or it could be that Matt Murton...
...is on the bench as a sacrifice on the altar of having a right-handed bat off the bench available.
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 6, 2007 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

That could be too...
But if that's the case, whither Cliff Floyd?  If DeRosa is playing RF and Patterson is playing LF, is Floyd no longer playing?

by SouthernCub on Aug 6, 2007 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Only if I've been a really, really...
...good boy this year and Santa has come early.
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 6, 2007 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Little OT, but
great Levine moment. Before the season, he's on "Chicago Tonight," talking about both teams. The host mentions that Thome was projected to hit 50 HR. Levine says,"I don't put a lot of stock in these publications that predict a guy will hit 50-60 HR. You never know what could happen." a few minutes later as the interview wraps up, the host asks Levine what Sox fans hould expect from their lineup. Levine says a few things baout Podsednik and Brian Anderson and then, without a hint of irony, says, "and I think Thome has a shot at 50 HR."
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Aug 6, 2007 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

I assumed Patterson is coming up to
play left.  Unlike Levine, I think DeRosa stays at second. If they gave up on EPatt playing the infield at Iowa, I doubt they want to re-visit the experiment in the middle of a major league pennant race.

by TR on Aug 6, 2007 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Levine is an idiot
first of all, everyone is saying two to four weeks on Soriano.  Now it could be more than a month, but a month is certainly not the minimum.

Sounds like he's been getting medical reports from Joe Morgan.

Secondly, the White Sox weren't "blocked" by anyone on Tejada.  The White Sox put in a claim on Tejada and either the Orioles pulled it immediately or they called up Kenny Williams, asked him what they would trade for Tejada, and then the Orioles pulled the waivers.

The Devil Rays, Royals or Rangers were the only teams that could have "blocked" Tejada and from all accounts they didn't put in a claim.  If you are reporting this accurately, Levine has no freaking clue as to how waivers work.

by Josh Timmers on Aug 6, 2007 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

I wrote it
as Levine spoke it, but you're correct. The Orioles pulled Tejada back, then called Kenny and nothing happened.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Aug 6, 2007 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

they should call up pie...and patterson
Pie/Pagan CF, Derosa at Right, let larry curly and moe(floyd, murton, and JJ) fight for RF and have Fontenot and EPatt battle for second. Then we could see a different linup the entire time soriano is up
Barry Bonds hits #755 off a guy suspended for steroid use in 2005

by jds2 on Aug 6, 2007 10:48 AM CDT reply actions  

Some Thoughts
Pie should be the one called up -- not EPat. EPat has been tried in the outfield because the Cubs think that Fontenot and DeRosa are the answer at 2B right now and probably next year.
With Cliff and JJ and DeRo roaming the outfield, we really need someone to go after the ball. EPat is not a centerfielder and we definitely need one with the current OF situation.
The best one-two combination is Theriot and Fontenot. Two guys who are decent hitters and will work the count and get on base. That is something that Fonzie definitely did not do on a regular basis. As we all well know, Fonzie is definitely suited for the middle of the lineup.
Soto should be with the club. Why are we worried if Hill is picked up? If Lou is going to play Kendall five days a week, Soto will be fine. He has caught Hill, Marshall, Wuertz, and Marmol at Iowa. It's not as if he is coming in completely unprepared. He is definitely an upgrade over Hill at the plate and can play defense. He also has played a little 1B and could give Lee a day off if necessary.
Finally -- the pitching. If we had a long guy in the pen and did some tinkering with ineffective short guys, we would not have to even think about carrying 13 pitchers. First of all, bring back Gallagher. Use him in long relief. If Marquis continues to struggle, put Gallagher in his spot and move Marquis to long relief.
Then pleeeeezzzz get rid of Ohman. The "good" and "bad" Ohman both have to go. He is totally unreliable. It does not make a difference if he starts an inning or comes in to stop the bleeding, he does not get the job done on a consistent basis. His replacement does not have to be a lefthander -- I just want a guy who can get people out at least 75% of the time.
And after watching Eyre enter the game last night with a guy on base and letting him score after a hit and a SF, I would move him as well. Once again, too inconsistent just about all season long. With 8 weeks to go in the season, Eyre just does not make me believe that he will ever return to form of last year and the one before. We cannot continue to rely on him and Ohman. If we do, last night was only an OMEN of what will happen again.

by ceegeewow on Aug 6, 2007 10:49 AM CDT reply actions  

That was a crappy homestand
Our bullpen totally collapsed. Ohman and Eyre continue to suck, and Dempster still doesn't know how to pitch in a non-save situation. It should be in his head that every time he enters a game (no matter the score) it's a save situation. Doesn't matter if we're up 1, or 10, or down 1 or tied. It's  always a save situation.
1-RUN GAMES = 15-17 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 30-28 | updated on 8/6

by SackMan on Aug 6, 2007 10:49 AM CDT reply actions  

eyre
although not pretty, he has pitched effectively. he hasn't given up a run since june 30th, earned or otherwise.
"If you'da been thinkin you wouldn't 'a thought that." ~~ "Squints" Palledorous

by rm463 on Aug 6, 2007 10:53 AM CDT reply actions  

He faced 5 batters last night in 2/3s
He walked 2 of them, and gave up a hit.
1-RUN GAMES = 15-17 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 30-28 | updated on 8/6

by SackMan on Aug 6, 2007 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Those walks were intentional...
it's not like he was wild there.  He gave up only one baserunner among the 3 hitters he was trying to get out.  That's not fantastic, but it's not awful either.

by SouthernCub on Aug 6, 2007 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ugh. My memory failed me.
Regardless... he sucks. We don't have a lefty worth a crap in the pen. These two guys should only be allowed to face 2 batters max in close late inning ballgames.
1-RUN GAMES = 15-17 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 30-28 | updated on 8/6

by SackMan on Aug 6, 2007 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

THINGS TO BE POSITIVE ABOUT
  1. Woody looked great last night. And it was great to be there in the stands when he took the field.
  2. The Soriano injury might fix the line-up and give us a real lead-off hitter (Pie, Theriot, or even E-Pat). If things are clicking with one of those guys at the top, Soriano might be moved down in the order when he returns.
1-RUN GAMES = 15-17 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 30-28 | updated on 8/6

by SackMan on Aug 6, 2007 10:54 AM CDT reply actions  

Where would you lead Pie off?
At home where he hit .227 or on the road where he hit .205?

by TR on Aug 6, 2007 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

He's batting .359 in Iowa
Maybe he'll turn it around his next time up.
1-RUN GAMES = 15-17 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 30-28 | updated on 8/6

by SackMan on Aug 6, 2007 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

The problem is that...
...the organization seems unable to commit to anything for long enough to make that likely. Fear of failure can rationalize a lot of bad decisionmaking.
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 6, 2007 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

Commitment issues?
Umm, after the last offseason, that remark seems way off.  Lou plays guys who play well, and benches guys who don't.  Dusty was the "stick with guys we like" type.  Pie was given a chance and he could not hit in the majors.  He will be given another chance, probably during the late season call ups.  Meanwhile, we have other players/prospects who have played well and should also be given their chances.

by californiachicagoan on Aug 6, 2007 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Pie was overmatched
when he was up in the show and demonstrated very clearly that he was unable to hit at the major league level.  From what I understand he went down to make some very big adjustments in his swing and his approach.  I suspect it'll take at least the rest of this season and some time in winter ball before those adjustments take hold.  It's very unlikely that Pie can help this team this year.  I suspect that's why he wasn't called up.

by cubsbak on Aug 6, 2007 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm in total agreement.
But Pie will be called up when the rosters are expanded, anyway. We'll see then if he learned something new in Iowa.

by Fraggin Judge on Aug 6, 2007 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Still think we might catch lightning in a bottle
with one of those guys. There's this funny thing that happens a lot in sports. One guy gets hurt, and it creates an opportunity. Quite often, somebody seizes that opportunity.
1-RUN GAMES = 15-17 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 30-28 | updated on 8/6

by SackMan on Aug 6, 2007 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe we can get the same pitchers
he's facing in AAA to come up with him
"We've got Wood!"

by lostinthevines on Aug 6, 2007 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

yabbut
weren't the 2 walks intentional?
"If you'da been thinkin you wouldn't 'a thought that." ~~ "Squints" Palledorous

by rm463 on Aug 6, 2007 10:58 AM CDT reply actions  

If Sori's injury is a grade 3 strain
as mentioned above, he's done for the year...this 2-4 week thing is a silly PR thing by the Cubs..
Let me get back to you, will ya, Charlie? I got a guy on the other line asking about some white walls.

by JB 23 on Aug 6, 2007 10:58 AM CDT reply actions  

It wouldn't be the first time...
that management hides the true nature of a severe injury and paints a rosy picture about a player's probable return.

by Fraggin Judge on Aug 6, 2007 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

Another thought...
forgive me if this was mentioned already, but I'm at work and just skimmed through the thread...

but IF the Cubs without Soriano, come up with a lineup with Theriot leading off, that ends up scoring like crazy, what are the chances that Lou might just throw Soriano out there batting fifth when he comes back, and maybe out to right and just say screw it.  If we can score runs without him, surely we could score runs with him uncomfortable in right field and batting fifth... it's just a thought.  

by eamuscatuli1881 on Aug 6, 2007 10:59 AM CDT reply actions  

It's nice to think about...
...at the very least, I suppose.
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 6, 2007 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

The fact that Soriano wasn't a good leadoff hitter
doesn't mean that the team will be better off without him. That's faulty logic. Those of us who believed that Soriano should not have led off envisioned him as a productive power hitter down in the lineup. Now we won't have him there either. That's a loss for the team anyway you look at it. We just lost the leading HR hitter for this team.

Now, Al, you're right that this season, a different player always picks up the slack. But to replace Soriano for a month or so is too much to ask now of the available players. Just remember how the team sank when Soriano got injured in the beginning of the season. His injury wasn't the only reason for the team's funk but it contributed to it.

Someone posted the other day that Soriano needed a rest. If he had only taken it last night. Sigh!

by Fraggin Judge on Aug 6, 2007 11:04 AM CDT reply actions  

Agreed... however,
while I agree that Soriano will be missed, I don't think it means gloom and doom.  I think they should call up Pie to play center, Floyd in left, Jones in right, with Pagan/Murton/DeRosa backing up.  

My recommended lineup would be:

SS Theriot
C Kendall
1B Lee
3B Ramirez
LF Floyd
2B DeRosa
RF Jones
CF Pie
Pitcher

I believe that this lineup, even without Soriano is good enough to win the division.  

One other move I would make would be to bring Rapada or Pignatiello down and do something with Ohman, but at this point I trust Eyre WAY more than Ohman, and I'd like to see one of the youngsters get a shot to show the consistency that Ohman lacks.  

by eamuscatuli1881 on Aug 6, 2007 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Addendum
One addendum to this...

if Pie comes up and starts hitting well, I think I move him to second in the order for two reasons:

  1. That gives plenty of speed in Theriot and Pie in the top of the order.
  2. If Pie bats 2nd and Kendall 8th, the lineup goes righty, lefty, righty, righty, lefty, righty, lefty, righty, pitcher.  Hopefully this would prevent managers bringing in lefties late in the game and facing a ton of lefties in a row.

by eamuscatuli1881 on Aug 6, 2007 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

if Pie comes up and starts hitting well?
But he's not coming up and when he did, he didn't hit well.  It's like saying, if Will Ohman starts getting people out, Cub fans won't hate him anymore.

by TR on Aug 6, 2007 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

doesnt
look like the cubs are going to bring up pie, the score just said they are expected to bring up eric patterson. i dont understand this, doesnt he play infield?

by tbizzle83 on Aug 6, 2007 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Fair enough.
As I don't live in Chicago, I'm not privy to the sports radio "in the know" folks.  My guess is that Patterson will play second and platoon with Fontenot and they plan on keeping JJ in center and play DeRosa in right full time.  OK, so here's my updated lineup:

SS Theriot (R)
2B Fontenot (L)
1B Lee (R)
3B Ramirez (R)
LF Floyd (L)
RF DeRosa (R)
CF Jones (L)
C Kendall (R)

by eamuscatuli1881 on Aug 6, 2007 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

I really don't think EPatt and fontenot
would be a great platoon since they both hit from the left side.  I think no matter what Levine says, Patterson is coming up to play left field.

by TR on Aug 6, 2007 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

Patterson is a butcher at second
and has been playing the outfield at iowa.

by TR on Aug 6, 2007 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Apparently,
since the Cubs are committed to Theriot and DeRosa in the infield, with Fontenot as backup, they have been trying to convert Patterson to an outfielder.

by Fraggin Judge on Aug 6, 2007 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

EPatt plays second the way
his brother hits.  The Cubs gave up on him because he flat out couldn't play second.  Were he a slick fielding second baseman, I don't think they would care who was on the MLB roster, he'd be dealt or be good enough to replace DeRosa.  A second basean with EPatt's offensive upside is worth a hell of al lot more than he is as an outfielder.

by TR on Aug 6, 2007 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think Soriano's Home Runs are getting over hyped
Soriano was the poster boy for a streaky hitter and I really didn't remember many times when he got big hits when we needed them. He got I think 3 Home Runs in one game and a couple in another so thats almost 25% in two games of all we played. He had a terrific june but outside of that he was swinging at everything.

Having said the above I want him to come back healthy and tear it apart in the post season because I think we will get there given the crappy NL Central. Also in all fairness I don't think we will suffer much without Soriano in the lineup. Now Lou will have a lot of flexibility as because of Soriano  Left Fielders were forced to man the tough Wrigley RF.

by cubsnlinux on Aug 6, 2007 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Can Pagan start carrying a clicker in the OF
So he knows how many outs there are in an inning? This has happened for the 3rd game this week.  It's inexcusable.  And although it might be a little far fetched I really think E-Pat can be a spark plug for this team.
IT'S GONNA HAPPEN

by Jayo525 on Aug 6, 2007 11:13 AM CDT reply actions  

I suspect that Pagán has ADHD.
He never knows what's going on after he catches a ball in the OF.

by Fraggin Judge on Aug 6, 2007 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

As demonstrated by his poor baserunning
and other mental goofs. He's not the brightest star in the sky.

As Buddy Ryan would say, dumb players will get you beat.

1-RUN GAMES = 15-17 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 30-28 | updated on 8/6

by SackMan on Aug 6, 2007 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sounds like trade-bait
Let's dump him now.  Or send him down.  Our major league coaches have shown no aptitude for improving the focus or basic skills of malfunctioning younger players (see Felix Pie, Corey Patterson, et al.)

by psennett on Aug 6, 2007 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

A BIG IF...
if we make the playoffs..anyone ever consider a 3 man pitching rotation?? Like the d-backs did.

by Bardusk87 on Aug 6, 2007 11:17 AM CDT reply actions  

Eric Patterson
There's a note on Cubs.com that says the Cubs are calling up Eric Patterson to take Soriano's place. Interesting.

by Willgly on Aug 6, 2007 11:22 AM CDT reply actions  

Then the Cubs are convinced...
that Pie is not ready to hit at this level.

by Fraggin Judge on Aug 6, 2007 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Defense At Second?
From what I know Patterson can hit for decent power and steal bases, and as a lefty hitter is significantly better against RHP.  Does anyone know about his defense at second base, where it seems like he might be playing on this roadtrip? (I hope he doesn't get thrown into the outfield).

by ms9av on Aug 6, 2007 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, I know about Patterson's defense
at second.  As I've said three times, it stinks!  

by TR on Aug 6, 2007 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

EPat's last 10 games
I looked up Patterson's numbers from his last 10 games:

10 for 43 (.233), 4 walks, 9 KOs, 2 RBI... is this the right call up to make in a playoff push?

Pie is 30 for 43 (.302) with 3 Steals and 5 RBI.

by Willgly on Aug 6, 2007 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

30 for 43? That's .698! No way.
1-RUN GAMES = 15-17 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 30-28 | updated on 8/6

by SackMan on Aug 6, 2007 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

30 of 43 would be...
.700  And if he was hitting like that and the Cubs did not bring him up - i would not root for the cubs any more.

by HIGGY on Aug 6, 2007 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

My mistake!
He is hitting .302 but it's 13 for 43. Not sure where I read 30... it's a monday. :)

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Felix%20Pie&pos=&sid=t451&t=p_ pbp&pid=429712

by Willgly on Aug 6, 2007 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Disappointing homestand.
A good team is supposed to win at home against good teams in the middle of a pennant run. (Against bad teams, it's suppose to sweep or almost sweep.) At least we didn't lose too much ground in the standings.

Several things worth noting:

  1. The starting pitchers performed badly and forced the bullpen to overwork. Only Lilly did his job this week.
  2. The bullpen is strong, but:
a. Will Ohman is finished.
b. Scott Eyre isn't.
c. Ryan Dempster is not a good closer.
d. Bob Howry did a better job closing during our winning stretch.
e. Carlos Mármol is doing his job well. Lou better not overwork him.
f. There is hope about what Kerry Wood can do for this team. We still need to see if he can be consistently good.
  1. The worst news this week was Soriano's injury. This is serious. We lost our biggest HR threat during a pennant run. There is no player currently in the roster or the minors who can provide what we miss with Soriano out for a month. The Cubs will probably call Pie up but the guy hasn't shown that he can hit in the major leagues. And remember, the Cubs didn't do well the last time Soriano missed playing time.
  2. Cliff Floyd is just a shadow of his former self.
  3. On the positive side, Jacque Jones and Jason Kendall improved their offense. I like the idea floated around about Kendall batting 2nd in the lineup.
  4. The Cubs have serious trouble against left-handed pitchers. A steady diet of them could eliminate the Cubs from contention, if Soriano's absence doesn't do it first.
  5. The lack of power in this lineup hampered the Cubs this week. With Soriano's absence that deficiency is magnified. I like Al's idea of signing José Cruz, Jr. The guy can hit and play a solid RF although he won't wow anyone. He should have more power than anyone who's played RF this season for the Cubs.
  6. Obviously, Matt Murton is in Lou's doghouse. Lou says he'll play him but if he didn't send Murton to RF last night after Soriano was injured, I don't think Lou ever will.
Many people posted here last night that if Soriano's injury costs the Cubs the pennant then this team wasn't that good after all. Well, maybe it never was that good. Many of us warned about the lack of power, even during the good times. Slapping singles can only get you so far. We're going to miss now the big bat we didn't try to get before the trade deadline.

Is the season over? Of course not. After all, the Cubs are only a game back in the standings and the other teams have weaknesses too. It all depends on how management and the players react. However, Soriano's absence just when the schedule gets tougher, the inconsistency of our starters and our closer, and a losing homestand against good teams aren't good signs.

Regardless, let's hope for the best and cheer our team.

by Fraggin Judge on Aug 6, 2007 11:30 AM CDT reply actions  

Yep
"Well, maybe it never was that good. Many of us warned about the lack of power, even during the good times. Slapping singles can only get you so far."
-----------------------------------------------
You are right I said the same many times up here. We might be scoring x runs per game so far but our offense has been really struggling. As you rightly said we cannot expect to beat good teams by advancing runners 90 feet at a time. I do not expect 4-5 hitters in the lineup to hit the long ball but there should at least be 2-3 who can consistently be able to get the long ball. Many times with the bases loaded or with two men on we ended up getting a run and at most 2. Now if only we had some consistent raw power then we could have blown a lot of games apart. I was not impressed with our performance in the Phillies series as well. Now we all hear that we should be able to split with the good teams and crush the lesser ones. But in all reality a team is only as good as it plays on a given day. DeRosa in his post game comments said something on the lines of "well it was a typical Tom Glavine performance". I would say that is an excuse. Glavine was struggling yesterday and we could not put more runs on the board only because of our ineptitude.

by cubsnlinux on Aug 6, 2007 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

What big bat didn't we try to get?
Who was clearly available as a big bat, and how do you know Hendry didn't try to get him?

by SouthernCub on Aug 6, 2007 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

We didn't try to get anyone seriously...
because Hendry thought the cost was too high. He said so himself and added taht he was happy with what he has. Is he happy now?

by Fraggin Judge on Aug 6, 2007 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

I love the concept of overworking a pitcher
Fergie Jenkins always goes purple when he talks about overworking pitchers.  Starters used to pitch BP, haul ice up to the vendor stands, paint the seats on their days off, and address ticket sales envelopes.  After walking uphill both ways on the way to the stadium.  In knee-deep snow every July.

by psennett on Aug 6, 2007 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Road Trip Pitching Probables
Yeah, the Cubs are bad against lefties.  Good thing the roadtrip only has us facing one, and that's tonight in Houston. After that it's six straight RHP. Bodes well.  Hope they can win 5 of 7 this week.

by ms9av on Aug 6, 2007 11:46 AM CDT reply actions  

hr's are overrated
for all of the hr's the brewers have hit (62 more than the cubs) they've scored a whopping 26 more runs in two more games.

i'll take the cubs' offense over the team were chasing in the nl central.

"If you'da been thinkin you wouldn't 'a thought that." ~~ "Squints" Palledorous

by rm463 on Aug 6, 2007 11:48 AM CDT reply actions  

No they aren't
A philosophy that ONLY Home Runs can win you games is overrated and more so wrong. A good team should have a mix. You cannot win a series with a line up of 8 Sammy Sosas or with a line up of 8 Juan Pierres.

by cubsnlinux on Aug 6, 2007 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm pretty sure you could win...
...a series with 8 Sammy Sosas. I'm less confident that you could win with 8 Juan Pierres -- and the notion makes me want to cry and scourge myself in the Puritan fashion to ward away such sin -- but I suppose its concievable. "Balanced" lineups are not demonstratably better at scoring runs. You just need to be sure that your BEST lineup is out there.
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 6, 2007 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

"I'm pretty sure"
More power to you then. I can come up with 100 different scenarios where 8 Sammy Sosas would not win you a ball game, but I will save that rant for now.

by cubsnlinux on Aug 6, 2007 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

And that's why...
the Brewers are on top of the Cubs in the standings. If they had better pitching they would be comfortably ahead.

by Fraggin Judge on Aug 6, 2007 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Mets
One thing the Mets series showed me is that the Mets are very good. I haven't studied their pitching stats, and I know they've been up and down, but they are scary offensively and have unbelievable quickness (Reyes, Castillo, AND Milledge?) that usually helps you a lot in the playoffs when maybe you aren't hitting so great in a series. It was clear to me that while the Cubs may be a playoff team, they aren't (at least not right now) a World Series team.

by park on Aug 6, 2007 11:49 AM CDT reply actions  

Wright and Reyes
are pheeenominal.

Did you see LoDuca swatting at the bugs while at the plate? That was funny.

"We've got Wood!"

by lostinthevines on Aug 6, 2007 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

I have been thinking about that all season
as much as I believe anything can happen once you get to the playoffs, we have had trouble with the Mets and D Backs for quite a few years. We still need a couple of players to set this team up for a good run through the playoffs, not just get there and get bounced. No need to go into what holes we still have, I have silently thought that we can solve those over the winter and really throw down next season.
"When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches."- Ron Santo

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 6, 2007 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Do you suppose
that if Glavine's wife wasn't so hot that they would have shown her so often?
"We've got Wood!"

by lostinthevines on Aug 6, 2007 11:58 AM CDT reply actions  

Do you suppose
if she wasn't so hot, she would be Mrs. Glavine?

by psennett on Aug 6, 2007 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Kendall hitting 2nd
Kendall's been hitting well of late and while i'd like to assume the recent 2 weeks outweighs the previous 15, i'm going to have to suggest that this is a bad idea

yes he takes pitches, yes he draws some walks and gets on base at a decent clip RECENTLY

but on the year he has a .276 OBP

and he's grounded into 53 DPs over the last 2.5 years

thats not a guy you want hitting 2nd....

by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 6, 2007 11:58 AM CDT reply actions  

I don't get it
with mostly right handed batters in the Cubs lineup, this team should dominate lefties. Odd that it is the other way around...
Now that he is back, play Matt Murton!!

by Chanman25 on Aug 6, 2007 11:59 AM CDT reply actions  

Possibly because our RH batters...
also hit RHP well (or at least solidly).  Our LH batters do not hit LHP well.  So we regularly have 7-8 guys in the lineup who can hit RHP, but only 5-6 guys who can hit LHP.

by SouthernCub on Aug 6, 2007 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

true
but the cubs don't have 8 juan pierre's.
"If you'da been thinkin you wouldn't 'a thought that." ~~ "Squints" Palledorous

by rm463 on Aug 6, 2007 12:03 PM CDT reply actions  

You didn't really get my point
I did not say that the Cubs have 8 Juan Pierre's. We need to have a good mix of hitters who hit for raw power and Sluggers who can consistently hit the long ball. The keyword is 'consistently'. Now Ramirez traditionally has been a hitter who hit both for Average and for Power and I guess so has been DLee. But we are not getting enough long balls from DLee this season. As I mentioned in my one of my posts earlier Soriano has been real streaky. He will hit 2-3 in one game and will hit another for a fortnight. Floyd has been a big disappointment and JJ has like what 2 Home Runs so far? We cannot expect to beat good teams with such a production from our lineup. The lack of power is further exposed when our Starting Pitchers struggle. We can slowly chip away runs if the SP's can keep us in the game. When they start serving doubles, triples and home runs we cannot expect to win with singles. Marquis is breaking apart, Rich Hill has been struggling lately and because everyone except for Lilly couldn't go deep in the game recently, our bullpen got over worked.

by cubsnlinux on Aug 6, 2007 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Patterson rather than Pie
They are calling up Patterson rather than Pie because they are going to make a move. They will find someone, if it is Payton, Roberts from SF, or another guy of that magnitude. They are not bringing up Pie, only to send him immdiately back down once they find a rent a player to play the OF. Patterson can play the role of fill in until that guy is found, and then can play a bench role once the waiver move is made. The Cubs only want to bring up Pie when he will start, not playing him as a bench player.

by louslovechild on Aug 6, 2007 12:23 PM CDT reply actions  

I hadn't considered that,
but it would make the decision to go with Patterson a more sensible move, since the callup would basically be for a cup of coffee and not a long-term stay. Thanks for bringing this up.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Aug 6, 2007 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

WHY DO THEY NEED TO MAKE A MOVE?
When the season started, we had a cluster fu*k in the outfield. Now, we lose a guy to injury, and everyone wants us to add another outfielder? We have plenty of them... too many, in fact.
1-RUN GAMES = 15-17 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-6 | HOME = 30-28 | updated on 8/6

by SackMan on Aug 6, 2007 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

There seems to be a clutch of people...
...on this site that would rather play some other team's washed-up waiver-wire trash than play our young, unpolished players. These are the same people that cringe in fear that some other team might take Koyie Hill away from us if we expose him to waivers.
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 6, 2007 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not necessarily.
They are calling up Patterson because he has primarily hit leadoff all season, batting .300 in the No. 1 spot in the order with a .365 on-base percentage.

by Fraggin Judge on Aug 6, 2007 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

i got your point
i just don't think that the lack of hr's is such a big deal. now, if the cubs were hitting hr's at the same pace and concurrently not getting any other extra-base hits, then i'd be concerened.

i believe the cubs are in the top 5 in mlb in doubles. secondly, we all know that baseball has a propensity to expose a team for exactly what they are, if this is accurate, it would stand to reason that the cubs will start hitting the long ball consistent with each player's respective career production, which will appease the "no hr's were doomed" contigency.

"If you'da been thinkin you wouldn't 'a thought that." ~~ "Squints" Palledorous

by rm463 on Aug 6, 2007 12:26 PM CDT reply actions  

When you want to
reply to someone's post all you have to is click on [reply to this] under that persons post. Makes it much easier to follow your conversation with that poster.
I love this team!!!!!

by sue369 on Aug 6, 2007 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Very little mention of Daryl Ward lately
Is there any chance he is ready, or ready to do a rehab stint in the minors?
Why does everybody stand up and sing "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" when they're already there? ~Larry Anderson

by JohnM on Aug 6, 2007 12:32 PM CDT reply actions  

I read in the Trib last week
that he was looking at mid to late August for return to the club.
"We're going to turn this team around 360 degrees." -Jason Kidd

by tony412 on Aug 6, 2007 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

I believe
Morgan actually said, at the start of the game, that the Cubs "have Izturis on the bench but TheRiot beat him out for the starting spot at SS."

And then there was the mistaken "fans at Wrigley cheering for Glavine" at the end of the 6th. Why in the world would we cheer for Glavine at that point in the game? It wasn't clear he was coming out or anything. It was obvious those cheers were for Wood, who was simultaneously running in from the 'pen as Glavine left the diamond. ESPN came back from commercial and tried to admit the mistake in their own pathetic way, but it was too late. Those guys are idiots, period.

"Mine, mine, says the squirrel to the transformer, unclear on the capacities of electricity." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Aug 6, 2007 12:38 PM CDT reply actions  

My favorite
was when Morgan proclaimed that Castillo was unfamiliar with the winds at Wrigley because he spent his entire career in the AL and hadn't played in Wrigley Field before.  Of course Castillo spent most of his career with the Marlins and has played plenty of games at Wrigley including 4 playoff games in 2003.  What an idiot.

by cubsbak on Aug 6, 2007 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jon Miller's a tool, too.
Anyone catch at the end of the game when someone was holding up a "It's Gonna Happen" sign.  Right before they signed off, Miller was like "It's Gonna Happen... it DID happen, Glavine wins his 300th."  

Yeah, that's EXACTLY what that sign means.  That just goes to show that they did absolutely zero research on the Cubs for this game.

by eamuscatuli1881 on Aug 6, 2007 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep
They were shoving their prepackaged "Glavine wins 300" storyline down our throats the entire night instead of actually telling us what was going on.  Just awful.

by cubsbak on Aug 6, 2007 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Informal Survey...
Which nationally broadcast announcing duo is worse?

Miller/Morgan?

or...

Buck/McCarver?

Discuss amongst yourselves.

Your results may vary.

by riggs on Aug 6, 2007 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

With Miller and Morgan you get
an idiot announcer and an idiot  color man who hates the Cubs.  With Buck and McCarver you get an idiot announcer who hates the Cubs and an idiot color man.

by TR on Aug 6, 2007 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Miller and Morgan are MUCH worse...
Though I find Joe Buck and his inflated ego annoying, I don't think he hates the Cubs as much as everyone thinks.  I think McCarver does, however.  

I can listen to Buck and McCarver and just shake my head and thinking about how they are both idiots.  I find Miller and Morgan nearly unwatchable.  

I would rather watch a game televised by a booth consisting of Michael Moore, Fran Drescher and Joe Carter, than watch five minutes of Miller and Morgan.

If ESPN were smart they would just have Erin Andrews do the game by herself and show her in the press box after every batter.  Watch those rating soar!  

by eamuscatuli1881 on Aug 6, 2007 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I tend to agree...
Buck/McCarver have their own unique brand of irritation, but Miller/Morgan is 3 hours of verbal diarrhea and incompetence.

Speaking of Tim McCarver, though, here's one that's good for a laugh...under the headline "Traumatized Tim McCarver Vows Never To Google Self Again."

http://www.thebrushback.com/mccarver_full.htm

Enjoy...

Your results may vary.

by riggs on Aug 6, 2007 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Morgan / Miller
And it's not even really close. While McCarver can be a blow-hard, he tends to do his job well. Morgan can't speak in complete sentences, and for a HOF'er, I don't believe it's possible to know less about the game. I mean, his analysis of the ball that Delgado hit to Fontenot, in the eight (I think)was just simply the worst breakdown of a play I may have ever seen. It was a slow dribbler, there was no way Fonty could turn two, and Morgan seemed to think it was because of the shift they had on for Delgado.

At the beginning of the replay breakdown, they had a freeze frame of the defense that showed that Fontenot was definitely playing in an unusual spot, Morgan then pulled out that trusty telestrator of his and put a mark near where he'd be playing if it were a "double-play depth" alignment.

So far so good. He's right, but then his analysis went to hell. He said that if Fontenot had been playing double-play depth, he wouldn't have had to come in so far, and would've had a better shot at turning two.

Well, Professor Morgan, if he was playing there, and that ball was hit exactly at the same place and speed as it was. Fontenot would have to go so far to his left, there would be no way he could make the turn back toward second to get a fairly quick David Wright, and would have probably only had the play at first, the very same play he made.

Or worse, the ball could've dribbled by him, and the Cubs wouldn't have recorded any outs at all.

Heck, actually the ball Delgado hit was right at Fonty, it was just hit weakly. So he charged it and made a play. But, I guess if it were Morgan playing second he would've done it all, because as we all know, he's the greatest second baseman ever.

Man, he's just worthless.

"Whoever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" - Frank Chance

by STLCubFan on Aug 6, 2007 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

And then they're saying this morning
on ESPN and The Score (with north and Huebner known Cubs haters) that the fans thought they were cheering for Wood but it was Howry who was up throwing. BAGS OF DOUCHE! If anything, they were cheering because they WANTED Kerry to get up and get going.

And DERREK Lee plays for the Cubs, J.O.! You did it during the All Star game, too.

The Soc bias on the Score is near-impossible to take (I know they're the flagship, but still), but I can't suffer through ANY show on ESPN.

ESPN radio and TV both suck. They're too big for their britches and try to be the story more than report about it.

"We've got Wood!"

by lostinthevines on Aug 6, 2007 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree w/you on your Score comments
Ever since they became the flagship they started to act like they were going to be the flagship from now until the aliens took over the planet. In the process they've turned off all of us Cub fans. Little did they know that as soon as the Sox started losing again, they'd be left with only a handful of listeners for their college internship quality radio. I can put together better promos and intros with a cassette deck and a walkman. ESPN 1000 was the flagship of the Sox for a while and I thought they were always pretty balanced.

North is just unbearable. All of them are 2nd class in Chicago.

"We're going to turn this team around 360 degrees." -Jason Kidd

by tony412 on Aug 6, 2007 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the background
on North and The Score, TR and tony. The guy's a real piece of work. I'm over in MI, about 10 miles from the lake straight east of Chicago. I can pick up GN, thank god, and The Score and ESPN1000 from Chicago. Otherwise, out where I live, it's NPR.

I can't believe someone in Chicago thinks that North is good at what he does. He's not even the typically abrasive "shock-jock" type like Stern, who at least had a brain, though I didn't listen/like him much either.

I guess I'll stick with GN and my mp3s and call it good.

"Mine, mine, says the squirrel to the transformer, unclear on the capacities of electricity." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Aug 6, 2007 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sori Really Sore Now
I was the one who thought Soriano needed a day off.  With Murton up it seemed like a good opportunity.  Having the Mets in town for what seemed like an important series (nationally televised games Saturday and Sunday) I did not think the Cubs would sit Soriano down until Monday or Tuesday.  He's sitting now.

He loves to hit low balls and seems to have a natural golf-like swing, hitting anything that's above the ground.  He could probably hit +300 yard drives at the golf course with some good instruction (if he's not hitting them already).  What has been killing him is that every pitcher sets him up to chase the low and outside breaking ball when he has two strikes, and he invariably bites on it.  

If the pitch is low he will pull the trigger and go.  He has such great reflexes and talent that he can foul many of them off.  Yes, the Cubs will miss his bat in spite of his lack of crucial hits.  It just seems odd that we are talking like we are about him even though he's a $15 million man.  It's alot to pay for a streaky hitter.

Pie, Fontenot, Theriot and Soto up the middle ... yippie oh, oh, oh!

by SpudV on Aug 6, 2007 12:40 PM CDT reply actions  

My only hope...
coming out of Soriano's injury is obviously not only that we continue to win and still keep a playoff push alive but that they bat the riot lead off and see that it's where he belongs and then bat soriano second when he comes back.

He just swings at every pitch too much to be the lead off guy.

by Willgly on Aug 6, 2007 12:51 PM CDT reply actions  

What could be interesting
What if it is a month and Theriot does out of sight at leadoff?
I just want the Cubs to top the Bears NFC Title Game as my highlight of the year.

by puckishcubsfan on Aug 6, 2007 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Soriano will be back to leadoff
because of the unwritten baseball rule that you don't lose your spot because of an injury.  Plus Soriano wikes his widdle weadoff powsition, and he won't pweform if bad old Wou moves him somewhere else.

by psennett on Aug 6, 2007 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

I hate the idea
of Soriano batting 2nd almost as much as batting leadoff.  He strikes out too much and is not a good situational hitter.  I think he'd hit into a ton of DP's batting 2nd.  He should be hitting fourth or fifth in this lineup.
Jeters Never Prosper

by jbgindy on Aug 6, 2007 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd always
rather give the young guys a chance before jumping on the wire. That said, I think picking up Cruz, Jr. is an interesting idea. I'd hate to think that none of our talent at AAA - or on the current team - can't perform as well as waiver wire fodder.

And I see absolutely no reason to keep Koyie around, other than experience at the ML level. Still, that's not saying much in his case.

"Mine, mine, says the squirrel to the transformer, unclear on the capacities of electricity." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Aug 6, 2007 1:03 PM CDT reply actions  

There's one reason.
I'd rather see Soto play every day on AAA than rot on the bench everyday with the Cubs.

by Fraggin Judge on Aug 6, 2007 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Kerry's return
Al, you said that his return was less than triumphant. Considering he probably was all pumped up, taking the mound again at Wrigley at a time when the games mean somthing and doing something that Eyre and Ohman never seem to accomplish, I was pretty GD happy. Did he mow down three batters on nine pitches? No. Did he have good velocity on his fast ball and was his slider and curve breaking? Yes. Agreed he didn't spot his breaking pitches (looked like he got squeezed on a couple IMO), but the fastball was right there. Oh, and he didn't give up any runs. For all he has been through, that's pretty close to triumphant in my book.
"When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches."- Ron Santo

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 6, 2007 1:09 PM CDT reply actions  

You're right on, John
Aside from his pitches, last night was a mental hurdle for him (and us fans, for that matter) that he has been looking forward to leaping for a long, long time. That he did it with quality pitches on a national stage in a (then) tight game is remarkable.

You can tell by my quote that I'm a big fan of Kerry's, and am very glad to see him back. He has the right stuff and the right swagger, but none of the attitude that #22 has.

"We've got Wood!"

by lostinthevines on Aug 6, 2007 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wood
looked excellent last night. Seriously, what more can you ask? His fastball was hitting 95, his breaking pitches were moving a ton - see the K to end the inning - and the "hit" he gave up was a little groundball single through SS that TheRiot may have had if he was playing a bit farther over.

Against my better judgement, I'm very excited about having Wood back.

"Mine, mine, says the squirrel to the transformer, unclear on the capacities of electricity." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Aug 6, 2007 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

I really think he'll be not just servicable
but effective fior this club. Ohman couldn't carry Wodd's jock
"We've got Wood!"

by lostinthevines on Aug 6, 2007 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think that
with Kerry's stuff, Lou won't have to play the lefty/righty came and automatically throw Ohman/Eyre out there. Of course, that's a big IF. I am also not saying to burn him out, but if he's throwing in relief like he did before this last batch of setbacks, he's lights out, period. A good compliment to Marmol. I like the idea of having him or Marmol coming in after our lefties to give the hitters a totally different look, keeping them off balance.
"When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches."- Ron Santo

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 6, 2007 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think
you are not giving them enough credit (Ohman and Dusty: see comment below).

I think if Ohman and Dusty collaborated their efforts and tried really really hard, they could, together, carry EITHER Lou's or Wood's jock.

Seriously people, let's not get out of hand here!

MMMMM...Hebrew National

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 6, 2007 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Loved the first curve
It broke 8 feet.  Unfortunately, it was only 3 feet off the ground when it started.

by psennett on Aug 6, 2007 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wood's pitching...
...was the lone positive thing about last night's game.  Sure, he didn't have pinpoint command, but his fastballs were 95 with some life and his sliders were pretty filthy, particularly the pitch that ended the inning.  At first I thought, "Wow, that was a bad pitch to swing at," but after seeing the replay I could see how you'd want to swing at it.  Looks like it's going right down the middle, then at the last instant takes a sharp nosedive.  Here's hoping Kerry can stay healthy.  If he can, he'll provide a big boost to the bullpen and a mental boost to the entire team.

by John Q Freejazz on Aug 6, 2007 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed
exactly what I said to my wife.  "Well at least Woody seemed like a positive."
MMMMM...Hebrew National

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 6, 2007 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Plus...
Wood was facing a very good hitting team. It's not easy to fool or strike out the Mets lineup.

by Fraggin Judge on Aug 6, 2007 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I decided a few weeks ago
that listening to Mike North on my way to work in the morning was no longer a suitable endeavor. I was going through far too much kleenex wiping the blood from my ears.

Seriously, he's the most annoying individual on the radio, possibly on any station, anywhere. He even comments and overtakes the news while it's being read. Again, he tries to become the story, like ESPN is doing. Both pathetic.

Why do so many sports outlets seem to assume that, simply because I'm a male and like to follow sports, that I'm a meatheaded, misogynistic, ex-jock with no interests or intelligence outside the sporting universe? How many of us truly even fit that stereotype anyway?

"Mine, mine, says the squirrel to the transformer, unclear on the capacities of electricity." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Aug 6, 2007 1:12 PM CDT reply actions  

LOL
While I am a listener of North's, it's only because I want the local flavor and don't care to hear about Chad Pennington and Notre Dame all freakin' morning.

Huebner is another story, though. A total jagbag. Tool of the week, of the month, of the year...

"We've got Wood!"

by lostinthevines on Aug 6, 2007 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

When Mike
is a guest on CTL it just makes me want to gag. He is horrible on there too.
I love this team!!!!!

by sue369 on Aug 6, 2007 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

I knew North when he had his hotdog
joint on Milwaukee.  He was a loudmouth jackass then and the addition of a microphone and 7 figure contract has made him even more insufferable now.

by TR on Aug 6, 2007 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

He had
a hotdog stand? Didn't know that. Probably ran his customers off.
I love this team!!!!!

by sue369 on Aug 6, 2007 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes. It was called Bebe's.
Named for his long suffering wife.  She was very nice.  He was a loud racist clown.

by TR on Aug 6, 2007 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Why not Pie?
Why wasn't Pie brought up?  

by Itchy on Aug 6, 2007 1:12 PM CDT reply actions  

Because Patterson
primarily hit leadoff all season, batting .300 in the No. 1 spot in the order with a .365 on-base percentage. Pie couldn't hit for average with the Cubs.

by Fraggin Judge on Aug 6, 2007 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

I am real interested to see
how this team steps up in the face of adversity.  I think Lou is a great motivator and I still think this team will get its act together quickly.  Dusty couldn't hold Lou's jock strap.  That becomes more clear with every passing day.

I love seeing +260 posts on BCB this morning as it is clear that we all are focused and concerned for the Cubs.  Whether it is hitting home runs, filling the lead off spot or getting more consistent starting pitching, I think Lou is focused on the finish line.

He will find a way to "cut & paste" this team through August and pull us past the BrewCrew.

That white W flag is the most beautiful sight to see. Go Cubs Go!!

by LAcarl519 on Aug 6, 2007 1:15 PM CDT reply actions  

Does Lou even wear a jock?
If not, I think carrying it would be quite an easy task to accomplish.
MMMMM...Hebrew National

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 6, 2007 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's on point.
Those who believe that a manager cannot make any diference will disagree but I think that these are the times where the manager as motivator and strategist has a lot to do with the success or failure of a team.

by Fraggin Judge on Aug 6, 2007 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

History
While I didn't want to see a loss obviously I was one who thought a standing ovation for Glavine was appropriate.

This is one of the classiest players in the game.

Juxtapose that with steroid man and ARod who's thought of as a jerk doing things this week....

And I just watched the tape of Kerry's entrance and the announcers saying it was for Glavine's departure and when they realized it was for Kerry's entrance they actually sounded like they were criticizing fans.

Cub fans always applaud greatness on the other side of the field and I think it's to our credit.  I'll never forget being at Hank Aaron's last Wrigley game when I was just a little kid and the standing ovation he received every at bat.

I just want the Cubs to top the Bears NFC Title Game as my highlight of the year.

by puckishcubsfan on Aug 6, 2007 1:19 PM CDT reply actions  

How did anyone know it was Hank Aaron's last game
at Wrigley Field when he finished his career with the Brewers in the American League prior to interleague play?  I guess it's possible but I don't remember it.

by TR on Aug 6, 2007 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Aaron's last game at Wrigley Field...
... was on July 7, 1974. I think even then it was well known that the Braves weren't going to bring him back and that either he'd retire or go to the AL, likely to the Brewers (since he had the history in Milwaukee) as a DH.

He homered that day. It was his 725th.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Aug 6, 2007 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

What about Kielty?
I think the cubs should go after Kielty as an option. he hits LHP pretty well and has been released so we wouldn't lose anybody in signing him.  sounds like a medium reward no risk option
Barry Bonds hits #755 off a guy suspended for steroid use in 2005

by jds2 on Aug 6, 2007 1:19 PM CDT reply actions  

come on, now!
the last sentence from this reads:

"Their No. 1 objective in Soriano's absence is to avoid the type of total collapse they suffered last season when Derrek Lee broke his wrist and missed more than three months."

does anyone entertain this as even a remote possibility?

"If you'da been thinkin you wouldn't 'a thought that." ~~ "Squints" Palledorous

by rm463 on Aug 6, 2007 1:20 PM CDT reply actions  

Well
it's Soriano, not Lee, for one thing, so no. Soriano's contributed in spots this year, definitely, but he's not Lee or Ramirez. Handled right, this could be a huge blessing in disguise. Forcing the top of the lineup to work harder and be patient, and then providing a huge mental lift when he does finally return.
Tinker to Evers to Chance.

by Matt Allison on Aug 6, 2007 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

I thought of the same thing
Although Soriano hasn't hit his weight or been able to throw for the past few weeks, this is a collapse-excuse in the making.  

by psennett on Aug 6, 2007 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not really...
first and foremost, the premises are completely different.  Lee was one of only 2 power hitters on the team last year, and when he went down we were stuck with Ramirez and a bunch of crap.  This year, With Soriano going down, we still have Lee and Ramirez, and I'd say the supporting cast behind those two is better as well than last year.

For another thing, we haven't been as reliant on the offense this year as last year.  The pitching staff has been much better this year than last.

by SouthernCub on Aug 6, 2007 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes.
Don't so anything, relax, sit back and watch what happens.

For the love of God, people, Alfonso Soriano is a principal part of this team. Streaky as he is he's the leading HR hitter on this team this year. And for a team that's having a power drought, the absence of that kind of production, as limited as it has been, is noticieable. It will have an impact. How big depends on how the players react and what moves management makes in the next few days.

Sure, this team is more balanced than last year's but that doesn't mean that it is immune to Soriano's absence from the lineup.

by Fraggin Judge on Aug 6, 2007 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Here's hoping
Soriano can recover and uses the break to mentally recharge.  In the meanwhile I like the idea of giving EPatt a chance, while I really like Pie, I think EPatt should be givin an opportunity to see what he can do.  Actually I think they both should get called up and have Ronny C sent back down.  Anyway I'm hoping whoever gets called up can get hot and provide a spark like theriot, fontenot and pie (for a little while) did.  at worst I think whoever we bring up will be capable of filling the fat dutch boy with his finger in the dyke untill Fonzie gets back
Barry Bonds hits #755 off a guy suspended for steroid use in 2005

by jds2 on Aug 6, 2007 1:32 PM CDT reply actions  

Don't know if this has been mentioned...
there are too many comments to read.  The Yankees designated LHP Mike Myers for assignment today.  Is he worth looking at as a lefty reliever, the way Ohman has been performing?

by WartburgCub on Aug 6, 2007 1:33 PM CDT reply actions  

Yes!
Myers has good numbers this year -- a 2.66 ERA and not too many walks (16 in 40.2 IP). Why the Yankees would let him go is a mystery, unless they already have a deal for him in the works.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Aug 6, 2007 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

I thought he might be an option...
untill I read the Torre quote about how they had to do this because he could not get Left handers out.
I think Ohman better start checking the apartment scene in Des Moines...or maybe Boise
Will Ohman is eating onion rings in a dinner. The door chimes as Lou Pinnella walks in. Slowly everything fades to black.

by jds2 on Aug 6, 2007 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's right,, too.
LHB are hitting .312 vs. Myers, although he's getting RHB out pretty well (.182). Same # of at-bats for both.

Hmmm. Why not get him anyway and use him against RHB?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Aug 6, 2007 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Because we HAVE guys who get RH out...
Wood, Marmol, Howry, Wuertz, and Dempster do that pretty well.  We need a LH specialist and a long-reliever, and Myers doesn't seem to fit either of those descriptions.

by SouthernCub on Aug 6, 2007 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly.
The way Myers throws the ball make it break as if thrown by a right-hander. We need the opposite, a lefty specialist who can do Ohman's job.

by Fraggin Judge on Aug 6, 2007 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

depends on price
I don't think getting right handers out is the problem with howry, wood, dempster, marmol.  However I guess you can never have enough pitching so if we can get him at a reasonable price i wouldn't be upset, i trust lou would use him wisely.
What about trying to use wood or marmol against Left handers, i think they both have the type of stuff that would be effective vs. LHB
Will Ohman is eating onion rings in a dinner. The door chimes as Lou Pinnella walks in. Slowly everything fades to black.

by jds2 on Aug 6, 2007 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ryan Church?
This article says the Cubs might pursue a deal for Church if the Nats could get him to clear waivers.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Aug 6, 2007 1:37 PM CDT reply actions  

I hope not
It would be such a waste. I'd rather go w/what we have, Pagan, Floyd, DeRosa, Jones and whoever gets called up Patterson/Pie.
"We're going to turn this team around 360 degrees." -Jason Kidd

by tony412 on Aug 6, 2007 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Reads like pure speculation to me
I would think that Church would be very difficult to get through waivers due to his cheap salary (near league minimum) and adequate numbers.  He might be arbitration eligible next season, but his low AB totals over the past few years should keep his salary at a manageable level for even the most cheapskate teams.  If teams like Pittsburgh and Cincy don't make claims instantly on him, they have no one manning their ships.

Although the blog entry is credited to Tribune Staff, I smell a little Phil Rogers in it.  He continues to be notorious about writing personally desired trades or free agent pickups as hints of insider information.  I see no evidence in the report suggesting any real knowledge about what Hendry is trying to do.

by Qixotl on Aug 6, 2007 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

My nephew
who is 71/2 years old, is worth looking at when trying to replace that worthless bag of ___ we call Oh-Man!
MMMMM...Hebrew National

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 6, 2007 1:37 PM CDT reply actions  

I'm not surprised
that North had a hotdog stand, I suppose. But where did he get the chance to become a radio personality/celebrity/sports-talk cheeseball-doofus-assman? Who thought that was a good idea?
"Mine, mine, says the squirrel to the transformer, unclear on the capacities of electricity." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Aug 6, 2007 1:39 PM CDT reply actions  

North bought brokered time on a little station
that shared space with WXRT out on Belmont.  That station then became an all-sports station with boosted signal etc. and North was hired.  That's why they shared space with XRT for several years.  

by TR on Aug 6, 2007 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

That old 15-something AM station
Didn't just 'share' space with WXRT, at the time, it was wholly owned by the local company that used to own WXRT before it was purchased by CBS. (Infinity Radio, was the name of the CBS Radio division at the time)

I was in the building back in the early 80s, that 'other' station had as much room in the Belmont facility as WXRT. It was mainly an ethnic station, it brokered time -- mainly Eastern European programming.

You are making it sound as if that AM station has some sort of broom closet for a studio -- it did not. The old AM tower is still on the property.
(I have no idea if that 15-something is still transmitting from there or not.)

Eventually, Infinity wound up swapping frequencies with NBC and wound up with the 670AM dial position, where The Score is today.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 6, 2007 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

When I talked about the station sharing space
with XRT being small I was talking about its signal, impact on the Chicago radio market etc.  And not all the people on that side of the building worked exclusively for the brokered station.  They worked for Danny Lee, the owner of both stations.

The AM station ceased to exist when the Score moved into the bunker on Belmont.  If you were there in the 80s maybe you met Seth Mason.  He thought North was funny and as much as anyone else, it is he who can be blamed for the radio career of Mike North.

XRT now inhabits the entire building.

by TR on Aug 6, 2007 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Al are you a moron
or are you just trying to give yourself a mental BJ so you don't feel bad about Sori being gone for 2-4 weeks.

This team has struggled for Offense all year and we just lost our team leader in Homers and Runs Scored.

This team is not better off, in fact the only other persons getting injured that would have hurt this team more would be losing Lilly or Z.

You and Kool-Aid drinkers might being felling better after you all have you orgy of make believe but at least this average Joe is willing to say the Emperor has no clothes.

by Joe on Aug 6, 2007 1:46 PM CDT reply actions  

Hey smart guy
Soriano ranks 8th on the team (10+ AB) in OPS for the last 30 Days. Barely higher than floyd kendall and derosa.
I don't know if al really ment the team is better off.  But it's very reasonable to expect a AAA call up to put up numbers comprable to soriano.  And hey if that call up does well then when fonzie returns maybe the call up can stay on the team and we end up better in the end.
And by the way joe very classy argument
Will Ohman is eating onion rings in a dinner. The door chimes as Lou Pinnella walks in. Slowly everything fades to black.

by jds2 on Aug 6, 2007 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sori stats
Look at his production in the losses.  Lots of o-fers.  So does that boost his apparent worth (when he doesn't hit, we don't win) or hurt it (his inconsistency - 3-for-5 during a win and 0-for-4 the next day during a loss - is hurting the team)?

by psennett on Aug 6, 2007 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Receipe time....
Turd Sandwich:

Place Joe between two slices of bread and place in Mircrowave for 45 minutes. Serves no one.

by LT on Aug 6, 2007 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Personally - I am much more concerned
with the 3-4-5- starters on this team.

Right now - the Cubs have TWO pitchers that can be relied upon.

It is AUGUST, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Aug 6, 2007 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've had that sandwich...
not very good I must say...
MMMMM...Hebrew National

by Kinky Reggae on Aug 6, 2007 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

mlbtraderumors.com
Is reporting the following:
Bobby Kielty is a 31 year-old switch-hitting outfielder.  He can typically draw a few walks and hit lefties.  He can handle the corner outfield positions but hasn't played center with any regularity since 2002.  Kielty is a free agent now after being released by the A's.

According to the Boston Herald, Kielty is receiving interest from the Red Sox, Yankees, Cubs, Diamondbacks, and Astros.

Hmm...Bobby Kielty. Now there's a name I haven't heard in a while. Career .255 hitter, has some power, switch hits, and plays corner outfield. Not too shabby if it works for us. Filled in nicely for Milton Bradley when he was injured. Spent some time on the DL this year, but only got in 13 games with the A's this year. Was released a few days ago, so he is definitely available.

Is it the best answer? Probably not. Is it worth a shot? I dunno. I don't know enough about him, but if he can play outfield and put some numbers up...

Your thoughts?

"Oh, I get a little tired now and then, but knowing my lifestyle, that's only natural." -- Harry Caray

by Cribbs463 on Aug 6, 2007 1:46 PM CDT reply actions  

Wouldn't hurt.
If he sucks, just release him. Worth a flyer, I'd think.

I'd still rather have Cruz.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Aug 6, 2007 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

That reminds me...
of Tony Womack's hiring last year after Lee was hurt. It wasn't worth the effort.

by Fraggin Judge on Aug 6, 2007 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

What part of that...
...can't Angel Pagan do, exactly? Wildly mediocre. Could allow current players to suck like Bobby Kielty without making changes to the 25 and 40-man rosters that hamstring us down the road.
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 6, 2007 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

I wonder, though
if Kielty usually knows how many outs there are?

by eamuscatuli1881 on Aug 6, 2007 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure I care.
When it comes to mediocre, I like mine younger rather than older.
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 6, 2007 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

10 Home Runs
In 377 at bats in '05 does not constitute POWER.
"We're going to turn this team around 360 degrees." -Jason Kidd

by tony412 on Aug 6, 2007 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed
But compared to 2 HR in 283 AB's (JJ) and 4 HR in 209 AB's (Floyd), it's an improvement.
"Oh, I get a little tired now and then, but knowing my lifestyle, that's only natural." -- Harry Caray

by Cribbs463 on Aug 6, 2007 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Apples and oranges...
comparing Kielty's 2005 to Jones' and Floyd's 2007 doesn't seem quite relevant to me.  I mean, Floyd hit 34 HR in 2005.  What does that matter now?

by SouthernCub on Aug 6, 2007 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Years shouldn't matter
Exactly. I wasn't the one that threw out the 2005 stats. I could care less about 2 years ago. What can they possibly do for me now? Probably nothing, frankly, but it's an option to the nothing we are getting now. I wouldn't propose Kielty being a starter for Heaven's sake, but for a cheap price see what he can do. I love DeRo in the most hetero sort of way, and I can't stress the "hetero" part enough, but he ain't gonna cut it in RF if last night was any indication.
"Oh, I get a little tired now and then, but knowing my lifestyle, that's only natural." -- Harry Caray

by Cribbs463 on Aug 6, 2007 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

And my point...
is that there's nothing to suggest he can provide anything more than Jones or Floyd can provide the the rest of the way.  Jones and Floyd have sucked less than Kielty has this year.  If you can assume Kielty could potentially provide the kind of pop he did in 2005 for us, then you'd have to assume that Jones could revert to 2006 form or Floyd could revert to 2005 form, right?

by SouthernCub on Aug 6, 2007 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Point taken
So, you would vote no on Kielty if you had a vote?

I would vote no probably, just because I don't know enough about him. I am still pretty entrenched in the "if it ain't broke" crowd, for now. We have been playing winning ball for the most part, and I'd have to see how things shake out in the next couple weeks with Fonzie in there.

"Oh, I get a little tired now and then, but knowing my lifestyle, that's only natural." -- Harry Caray

by Cribbs463 on Aug 6, 2007 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd vote no...
I think he's a poor-man's Matt Murton.  And considering that Matt Murton doesn't get any playing time, I'm not sure what adding a lesser version of him would be worth.  At least Murton is still young enough that he could theoretically develop into something valuable.  Kielty just doesn't have any appeal at this point.  I'm more inclined to just see what Jones/Murton/Floyd can do over the next month.

by SouthernCub on Aug 6, 2007 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good points, all
If he were picked up, surely we would be the only club with two flaming redheads on the team.
"Oh, I get a little tired now and then, but knowing my lifestyle, that's only natural." -- Harry Caray

by Cribbs463 on Aug 6, 2007 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Of course...
...he has red hair, so you know, we gotta take that into consideration...
"Oh, I get a little tired now and then, but knowing my lifestyle, that's only natural." -- Harry Caray

by Cribbs463 on Aug 6, 2007 1:49 PM CDT reply actions  

I thought
Marquis pitched nfairly well last night. The defense behind him was pretty bad, or at least wasn't good, and good defense might have prevented 2 or 3 of those runs.

Soriano hasn't played like anything better than a very average left fielder most of the time this year. And defensively, he has a great arm, and is fast, but he can't make any plays near the wall or in foul territory, and he has been unable to pick up more balls in the outfield than anyone I've ever seen. It just scoots right past him. I agree with Al on this, it won't be hard to replace him, particularly since he was wasting what power he did have in the leadoff spot. If he was playing like he did last year, then he would be impossible to replace.

They might even do a little better without him if they put someone with a little power in the 5-6 holes and someone who can get on base lead-off.

by jazzypete on Aug 6, 2007 1:51 PM CDT reply actions  

speaking of defense
I really wish Lou could see how bringing the infield in never works! At the very least you get an out. Geez...that one killed me.
"We're going to turn this team around 360 degrees." -Jason Kidd

by tony412 on Aug 6, 2007 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Kielty?
He's hitting .200! and he hasn't even come close to .300 in 5 years and has never hit more than 13 homers ... Hmmm... a red head who doesnt really hit for average but doen't have power either? Might as well stick with Murton...

by Willgly on Aug 6, 2007 1:59 PM CDT reply actions  

I'm with ya
On that...no doubt. I suppose I am just playing devil's advocate, because to be honest, I just don't know that much about the guy. He has only played 13 games this year, so I will give him the benefit of the doubt. Kendall was stinky as fresh poo when he came over, and even though he has an arm like a limp noodle, he has been better at the plate and had some timely hits. Granted, you expect a little less offensively from a catcher than you do an outfielder, so I concede that point.

Could it work too for Bobby? Change of scenery, second-chance, switch-hitting bat, outfield experience? Granted, we don't have many choices at this point, most of what is available or could be available is going to be damaged goods or someone who has fallen off. The other choice is to find the solution in house. I just noticed the report on the site and wanted to throw it out here for the rabid fans to chew on.

So, I'll bring the A-1 sauce and let's get to chewin!

"Oh, I get a little tired now and then, but knowing my lifestyle, that's only natural." -- Harry Caray

by Cribbs463 on Aug 6, 2007 2:05 PM CDT reply actions  

Guard the bear claws and jelly-filled long johns
but here's an idea for a lefty reliever, assuming he could clear waivers...

What about re-acquiring Chicagoan Ray King?

He has a 1.35 ERA since the ASB, a 0.91 WHIP against lefties on the year and opponents are batting .214 against him with two outs and RISP.  

by eamuscatuli1881 on Aug 6, 2007 2:12 PM CDT reply actions  

why not
Will Ohman is eating onion rings in a dinner. The door chimes as Lou Pinnella walks in. Slowly everything fades to black.

by jds2 on Aug 6, 2007 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

diner?
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie

by buckmulligan on Aug 6, 2007 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ask any
Cardinals fan if we should go for Ray King.
"Signature must be less than 160 characters" -- Who has a name with 160 characters?

by BlueSox on Aug 6, 2007 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Mike Meyers was just released by the Yankees
Although he is not a LOGGY like Ohman or King.  He's actually bad agaisnt lefties and great against righties.

by IllinoisCubs on Aug 6, 2007 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm really concerned
after the mets series that everyone is going to try to steal on Kendall's noodle arm at will untill we prove he can actually throw somebody out.  This could become a huge problem

by cajuncubbie on Aug 6, 2007 2:18 PM CDT reply actions  

JOSE CRUZ JR??????????????
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Is that tough enough for you?
Petco Park had nothing to do with his 'decline.'

He's awful. Had a unbelieveable, out-of-his-mind month of April, into Mid-May -- home and road.

Now, he couldn't hit a 16" softball, thrown underhand. Talk about your 'regression to the mean.'
'
I belive it's 'regression to his norm' -- a washed up, over-the-hill outfielder.

Shopping at the 99-cent store is best done by the Padres.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 6, 2007 2:24 PM CDT reply actions  

Wow
Carrie Muskat is reporting the Cubs are calling up Eric Patterson.
"Oh, I get a little tired now and then, but knowing my lifestyle, that's only natural." -- Harry Caray

by Cribbs463 on Aug 6, 2007 2:50 PM CDT reply actions  

He's Iowa's version of Soriano.
speedy lead-off hitter with some power and 62 rbis. Not really surprised they did this; maybe they'll literally plug him in exactly where Alf was: LF and lead-off.
Tinker to Evers to Chance.

by Matt Allison on Aug 6, 2007 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

From watching
EPatt, he seems to have more plate discipline
Will Ohman is eating onion rings in a dinner. The door chimes as Lou Pinnella walks in. Slowly everything fades to black.

by jds2 on Aug 6, 2007 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

wow.
Welcome to the bigs, Eric.

There needs to be a 40 man roster move to open a spot for E-Patt. Wonder who the Cubs are giving up on.

by jacob on Aug 6, 2007 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Showcasing Eric
Seems like this is the best time to check him out and break him in.  Both he and Pie maybe necessary.

by coral on Aug 6, 2007 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions