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A Little Perspective, Please

Six days ago all of us were reveling in the fact that the Cubs had moved percentage points ahead of the Brewers into first place; they even moved the flag on the scoreboard to the top spot.

So why now is there so much angst? The Cubs lost 5-2 to the Astros last night, and looked bad doing it; but with the Brewers blowing a 3-run lead and losing big in Colorado, 11-4, giving the Rockies two five-run innings in the process, the Cubs remain this morning only one game out of first place, still even in the loss column.

There are fifty games remaining; the Cubs have a 58-54 record. If they can go 30-20 -- and they've played better than this over a previous 50-game period this year -- I believe that, which would result in 88 wins, would be enough to win the Central.

They're not going to do it playing the way they did last night, though. I'm kind of tired of reading articles like this one which blame the last two losses on the loss of Alfonso Soriano. Soriano hasn't hit that much since the All-Star break, and he doesn't appear to have "40-40" in him this year.

Would Soriano have made a difference in the first inning last night? No, because Ryan Theriot led off the game with a walk. When was the last time you saw Soriano do that? The failure was in the middle of the order. You might say that missing Aramis Ramirez last night was at fault, but the bottom line is -- other players have to step up; everyone knows Ramirez has to sit from time to time because of his knee troubles. The Cubs could have had Woody Williams out of the game early; scoring only one run out of a bases-loaded, nobody-out situation is asking for the momentum to shift, and it did.

Sean Marshall threw well enough; Kerry Wood allowed two of his inherited runners to score, so even though Wood's ERA remains at zero, and the boxscore says the bullpen did a good job, it really didn't. Had Wood been able to retire Carlos Lee and Ty Wigginton, the Cubs would have pulled to within 3-2 on Matt Murton's subsequent HR and perhaps, then, would have been able to come back.

I hate the pulled-in infield, incidentally. How many times have you actually seen that work? And how many times have you seen a hitter slap a ball that would have resulted in an out if the infielder had been in his normal position, right through? Are you telling me that a shortstop couldn't throw to the plate from twenty feet further back? I wish Lou would stop doing this.

There isn't much more to say, other than that Eric Patterson got his first major league hit, a bloop over Astros SS Eric Bruntlett's outstretched glove. He also struck out twice. That isn't necessarily an indictment of him, as the rest of the team struck out eleven times. Still, I'm not sure that he's the answer to anything at this point. The Sun-Times recap linked above says:

[Lou] Piniella alluded to the lineup's problems being a contributing factor to some of the problems attributed to the recently beleaguered pitching staff. But whether the Cubs have a move up their sleeve to fix the problems, Piniella referred questions to general manager Jim Hendry.

And Hendry said only that he and his staff are working the waiver wires for possible help.

Well, at least they're thinking about acquiring someone. I'm still on the Jose Cruz bandwagon -- I know some of you have scoffed at that notion, but the guy can play all three OF positions, has a bit of power, and will draw walks. He was released, thus could be acquired for nothing. If he's terrible, just release him again. I also know the Cubs have had some interest in Jonny Gomes; Gomes, too, has some power (13 HR this season so far in 199 AB) and had a big game last night, 3-for-4 with a HR and 4 RBI. I don't have any specific knowledge, but I imagine Gomes has cleared waivers and the Cubs could get him if they really wanted him, though Tampa Bay has been in the past difficult to deal with.

So, tonight Carlos Zambrano has to, once again, play the role of "stopper", this time stopping a three-game losing streak, the team's first in two months.

Notes: Will Ohman claims he's hurt and thus shouldn't have been sent down. Note, though:

Ohman, who told Cubs officials of the soreness after he was told of the roster move, was vague about how long the shoulder has been bothering him.

So -- this was only an issue AFTER you were sent down, Will? Read between the lines and you'll find the real reason:

As surprising as Will Ohman's demotion to the minors was Tuesday, the timing made it worse for the left-hander, who planned to see family in the Denver area during the Cubs' trip to Colorado this weekend, leading up to his 30th birthday on Monday's scheduled day off. "It stinks," he said. "I mean, my folks haven't seen their grandkids in six months or so."

Well, waah, waah, waah, Will. You mean with that $2.5 million, two-year deal you signed last year, you couldn't have bought a couple of plane tickets for your kids to see their grandparents?

This team is better off without him, for quite a number of different reasons, it would seem.

After the Cub game ended I flipped on the end of the White Sox/Indians game to hear how Steve Stone fit in with that other guy they have in the booth. Surprisingly, Stone seemed at ease, and did one of the things he does best -- called a couple of pitch sequences perfectly. Stone will be calling Sox games the rest of this week, as Darrin Jackson is in Arizona with his wife, who had their fourth child yesterday. If you don't live in the Chicago area and want to hear Stone, the Sox game vs. the Mariners on Saturday at 6:05 CT will be on WGN.

Finally, I have only this to say about Barry Bonds' breaking of Hank Aaron's HR record last night: Bonds now has hit the most home runs in major league history. But that does not make him the greatest HR hitter. There's a difference. This massively talented individual, who was a first-ballot Hall of Famer before he (allegedly) took a single steroid, has always been a great baseball player. If only he'd accomplished this feat without a cloud of suspicion over his head, I'd be more willing to celebrate this historic event. Instead, I simply note, as I did when he hit HR #752 and #753 at Wrigley Field last month, that we are witnesses to history.

Now let's get back into first place tonight.

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Gomes
I think would be easy to get. He's kind of an odd man out down there. However, he lacks the versatility of Cruz, Jr. But check out Gomes' career line vs. LHP: .297/.402/.539 w/ a .951 OPS.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Aug 8, 2007 8:53 AM CDT   0 recs

I imagine...
... Gomes, if acquired, goes right into RF platooning with Floyd. Or if he hits, maybe even plays every day.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 8, 2007 8:57 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

All for it
That would be a fantastic addition. However, the Rays are the Rays and are a pain in the ass to trade with. I'm not exactly sure we could get him for a fair value (not that I know what "fair value" would be).

Also, I would kind of be suprised if he cleared waivers. He's a powerful right handed bat who takes walks and played a serviceable outfield. Of course he strikes out a lot as well. But, and I may be (and probably am) wrong here but I think he still probably makes close to the league min. If he did clear waivers, he is without a doubt the one we should target.

by hawkeyenation on Aug 8, 2007 8:58 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You are not wrong...
He makes about $350,000, as he has yet to reach arbitration eligibility.  And I agree - an inexpensive bat like that would not likely clear waivers easily.  Especially in the AL, where he could also DH if the OF is crowded.

If he did make it here, I'd expect he'd see a lot of RF.  Floyd is just not getting it done these days, and it may be that the wear and tear of a 162 game season is too much for him at this point.

by SouthernCub on Aug 8, 2007 9:08 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Gomes is a much better
choice. None of you have seen enough of Cruz Jr to realize he...stinks, stinks, stinks. The Cubs may as well let Patterson play -- at least he's young and may have a future.

Cruz's career is toast. He hit, oh, about .600 in April, and about .120 since. Had he been able to hit, at least .260, there's no way the Padres release him, and take a flyer on the troubled Milton Bradley, (who's been injured more than he's been in the line-up) and scrub Scott Hairston (Who promptly hits 3 sucessive HR's, tying a team record. That means the 99-cent store shopping can help for a game or two, but that's about it.)

No Cruz Jr. Please.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 8, 2007 10:24 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

a little perspective my butt.
If i wannna be a raving lunatic, that's what I am going to be.

seriously though. a 3 game losing streak, though frustrating, is far from the end of the world. Obviously it would be nice to have gained ground on the Brew Crew, but it hasn't happened. They will get it together here. We all just need to take deep cleansing breath and relax. Things will be ok.

AC 00 00 00 - BELIEVE

by mike on Aug 8, 2007 8:58 AM CDT   0 recs

"Perspective" amplification
Every team, in every season, goes through "flat spots" and the Cubs are in one now.  They don't last forever, they never do, and while we know this one will end (sooner rather than later, please!) the fact that it's getting to the transition from midseason to late in the season is what's making people a little edgy.

A few more runs scored here and there would be nice.  A little bit of a pitching improvement likewise.  

3 games isn't the end of the world, a few more and then it will be time for the nerves...

by MN exile on Aug 8, 2007 10:27 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree, but...
Last year's "flat spot" was about 140 games.

They need a very good game tonight so they can get back to the business of GOOD baseball, or the last two months of this season could look a lot more like the first two than the past two.

"Whoever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" - Frank Chance

by STLCubFan on Aug 8, 2007 10:39 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

This is not last year.
Granted, the NL Central isn't the strongest division in baseball, still, last year the Cubs were never in it.  This year, we're a game off the division lead with 2/3+ of August and all of September to go.

Take a few deep breaths, dude...

by MN exile on Aug 8, 2007 10:59 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm still optimistic...
mostly. I just hope Zambrano can win the Cubs a game tonight, and they can change the momentum a little. The Rockies are torrid right now, and this road trip could be pretty painful if the Cubs can't get something out of the Brewers' simultaneous struggles.
"Whoever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" - Frank Chance

by STLCubFan on Aug 8, 2007 2:50 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

On Bonds...
I was watching that game last night before I went to bed simply to see if he would hit it. I was really suprised at how little I felt when watching it. I wasn't disgusted with it (even though I think he is a bad person in a general way) and I didn't get all goosebumped like I do when I'm watching other historic moments unfold. It was just....nothing. Did anyone else feel this? It was just a dead historic moment for me, and that was an odd feeling.

by hawkeyenation on Aug 8, 2007 9:02 AM CDT   0 recs

I was asleep when it happened.
But seeing the highlights, and the speech he gave, this morning -- I felt the same way. Yawn. It happened. Now let's get back to the pennant races.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 8, 2007 9:16 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Al: did you see the post/article I put up
yesterday concerning Bond's "bio-mechanical aid" elbow pad?  Any thoughts/comments?
That white W flag is the most beautiful sight to see. Go Cubs Go!!

by LAcarl519 on Aug 8, 2007 11:31 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I felt the same way
I didn't see it until I woke up this morning.  At first, when I saw the headline I thought "Wow", and then when I watched the replay and listened to speeches I felt.... nothing.....  Probably it's because I don't like all the sappy, feel-good love fests that MLB puts on now at every big event, though I guess you can't blame Bud and Co. for this one.  From a baseball perspective it was pretty neat I guess.
I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey

by pageian on Aug 8, 2007 3:08 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Ohman
I'm sure Sweet Lou is so sorry to have disrupted Will's BD plans.

by rgonzale on Aug 8, 2007 9:05 AM CDT   0 recs

I dont want to be that guy but...
If you take a look at the past 2 games and the lineups for both, they are basically the same Dusty would have had last year assuming everyone was healthy.  Now you can blame Dusty for all the hitting woes last year and his 'free swinging attitude' all you want - but this team (the past two games) looks very similar to what it was last year.

Dont take this as doom and gloom, as i have stated before i think Lou is a motivating coach as oppose to Dusty's laid back attitude, and hopefully Lou can get these guys focused and back on a hot streak.

PS - i am a supporter of Jones as we all know, but that was absolutel unbelievable last night in the first inning.  A pitcher walks 3 in the inning and you go up there hacking at the first pitch.  Not good.

by HIGGY on Aug 8, 2007 9:07 AM CDT   0 recs

You are right..
That thought crossed my mind too. Last night's lineup looked awfully close to a lineup we would have seen in 2006.

by cubsnlinux on Aug 8, 2007 10:34 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Jones gets a alot of hits
on the first pitch, but I would agree, you make the guy work in that situation.  Jones, is clearly someone who does not like to hit with 2 strikes, and this is why he is hacking early in the count.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 8, 2007 10:42 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Patterson/Pie
You mentioned Patterson and without making the easy comparison to his brother, if Woody Williams can get high fastballs by him, what kind of a diet of pitches do you think he's going to see?  That to me was one of the more disappointing things of the night.  Yes, the sample size is ridiculously small but judging from last night's effort, he's not ready.  If he is, and he's still got the propensity to swing at high fastballs, I'm deathly afraid the comparisons between him and his brother, at the plate anyway, are inevitable.  

With the huge OF of Colorado on the horizon, with Patterson not looking to be the answer and with the entire OF struggling, now is the time to recall Pie.  Do whatever you want with the waiver-wire guys, but Pie should be brought up NOW.

Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. -- Lee Constantine Elia, 1983.

by krummy12 on Aug 8, 2007 9:07 AM CDT   0 recs

Last night, left field...
...went 2-for-5 with three strikeouts and a solo home run. If that doesn't sound like a typical Soriano night then I don't know what was. Patterson and Murton weren't the problem with the offense last night.
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 8, 2007 9:13 AM CDT   0 recs

Agreed.
n/t
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 8, 2007 9:16 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Fine
A bloop hit and a solo HR down four runs...but you got the stats right anyway.  And one of the K's was a Patterson K with the bases loaded to end the inning.  Just to supplement your stats based logic.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. -- Lee Constantine Elia, 1983.

by krummy12 on Aug 8, 2007 9:17 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Right, because Soriano only...
...struvck out in non-RBI situations. Yeah.
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 8, 2007 9:19 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Well...
I'm not a Murton or Patterson supporter but even I'm not that down on them. They did their job better than most of the other guys in the lineup last night, whether they were bloop or solo homers when you're down by 4. It's not their fault that the rest of the guys couldn't also pick it up last night.

by hawkeyenation on Aug 8, 2007 9:20 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Missed it
I'm not "down" on Patterson.  He's not ready.  That has nothing to do with being "down" on anyone.  If you believe his AB's last night which consisted of a bloop hit and two K's on high fastballs were evidence of him being ready to contribute, that is your opinion.  

You can even take it further and say that he was fortunate that the 1B fumbled his bunt on Tuesday night because he bunted it way too hard.  So, I'm not down on him, but...he's not ready to contribute based entirely on that small sample size.

It is also laughable to compare any of those guys to Soriano, a guy that no matter his numbers or production, perceived or otherwise, is respected at the plate by all major league pitchers.  Something that can't quite be said for Patterson just yet.  Until then, high fastballs all around.

Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. -- Lee Constantine Elia, 1983.

by krummy12 on Aug 8, 2007 9:24 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That's fine
He may not be ready. That could very well be. But basing it on one game (and one horrible sac bunt- he's a Patterson, I don't think it's in their genes to know how to bunt) is a little shortsighted. Everyone has stunk the last two games. Picking out two of the players that everyone has strong opinions of (love or hate) isn't really fair. We're in a race for the playoffs, so I guess jumping to conclusions is the name of the game, I'm just not real sure pinning this on those guys and giving a free pass to Jones or Derosa or anyone else who helped pick up the 26K's the last few days is really fair.

by hawkeyenation on Aug 8, 2007 9:31 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

What's your point?
What has Soriano done "in the clutch?"  You don't think he's gotten Ks with the bases loaded?

Soriano has 42 RBI this year, and at least 18 of those came on his own HR.  So it's not like he's been hitting tons of clutch hits, either (especially lately).

Look, the team is clearly better off having Soriano on the team, because he's one of the more dangerous hitters.  But based on the results last night, having him and not Murton/Patterson would not likely have made a difference.  Over the course of a season, yes, Soriano is the better option.  But last night, it didn't hurt us.

by SouthernCub on Aug 8, 2007 9:22 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Well
If you're responding to me, my point is that Pie is a better option than Patterson.  Nothing at all about Soriano.  If you guys don't believe he's going to be missed in the short term and long term, you're simply in denial.  Was Soriano slumping at the plate...obviously.  Is he still a better option every day in LF?  Obviously.  

My point, missed by a few of you, is that Pie belongs in CF, especially with Colorado on the horizon, and that Patterson belongs as a September callup.  He isn't ready for major league duty on a semi-regular basis.  It's not even really about offense.  If they go into Colorado with Jones and Pagan in CF, the gaps will get a workout.  

Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. -- Lee Constantine Elia, 1983.

by krummy12 on Aug 8, 2007 9:27 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't think
I don't think anyone is saying Soriano won't be missed in a big way. What we are saying is that in the last two games it wouldn't have made a difference. To crucify Patterson and Murton for these two losses isn't right. And to say Pie would have given us the wins also isn't right.

Should Pie be up instead of Patterson? Perhaps, but at the same time he didn't exactly do much with his opportunity besides with his defense. Last I checked, it's our offense which isn't doing the job.

by hawkeyenation on Aug 8, 2007 9:34 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You could really use a bit of perspective.
Because if you apply the same standards to Pie that you do to Patterson, we're going to keep the same carosel going. Everybody goes through slumps, rookies and vets. It's just that people around here want the rookies to either immediately play up to their potential or go home.

At this point, personally I'd like to see an outfield of Patterson-Pie-Murton, although I'm enough of a realist to understand that it won't happen. But it doesn't really help Patterson develop -- and it wouldn't be great for Pie, either -- for the organization to get the notion that you can write a guy off after four at-bats.

So, seriously, could we give the rookie a chance? Is that SO much to ask? Because if it is, you can start to understand why Felix Pie isn't on the team; what would he do there? What good does it do everyone?

If you start putting the pressure on, they start pressing and they start getting away from what got them to the Show in the first place. It's stupid, stupid, stupid. And it's why Mark Grace will continue to be a punchline to a very sad joke about this organization.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 8, 2007 9:35 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Nothing in your previous post or this thread...
mentioned Pie at all.  This was a discussion of what Patterson/Murton did in LF compared to what Soriano would have done.  Perhaps you are getting your threads confused here?

by SouthernCub on Aug 8, 2007 9:37 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Come on man
Read the first post.  Here's a hint...the title even includes the name Pie.  Now, you tell me who has it confused.  
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. -- Lee Constantine Elia, 1983.

by krummy12 on Aug 8, 2007 11:38 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Ohman
Ohman never complained of a sore shoulder until after he was optioned to Triple-A Iowa on Tuesday. "Have you seen what I've done for the last month and a half?" Ohman asked. "I was doing just fine. I've had two rough games back-to-back. Before that, I've been getting outs.

=========

Sure, well only one month and a half isn't going to cut it when the rest of the season was miserable..

Now that he is back, play Matt Murton!!

by Chanman25 on Aug 8, 2007 9:17 AM CDT   0 recs

The pulled-in infield didn't loose the game
but it didn't help win it. One if not two of the hits given to Wood could have easily been outs if not for the preposterous infield depth.
'07 Postseason: Bears, Bulls... Cubs?

by stelmodad on Aug 8, 2007 9:30 AM CDT   0 recs

Bonds and Al
First Al I apologize for putting you in a sentence with him but I wanted to cover both of you in this post.

Forgive me okay?  Does it help to know I had to watch Barney this morning?

Al one of the reasons you make a great person to run this blog is your level headedness about things.

I'm afraid to walk downtown today because of all the leaping off of buildings people are ready to do.

But you bring a levelheadedness to this site that is needed for the head guy.

On Bonds I found it just sad last night.

How joyous this time should be for baseball.

If it was anyone else but a steroid filled jerk it would be special.

I just want the Cubs to top the Bears NFC Title Game as my highlight of the year.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Aug 8, 2007 9:33 AM CDT   0 recs

Perspective?
Al - i know you get flamed for this type of thing, but why perspective today?

7/1:  "This isn't overhype: the Cubs really must win today." - Al

5/13:  "Time to change that streak, particularly since today is pretty much a must-win" - Al

Do you see why must-win proclamations are goofy before you get to a point where your elimination number is 0?  

Dang...I just want something to root for in September

by GamePenguin on Aug 8, 2007 9:36 AM CDT   0 recs

"Must win" often followed by ...
... posts about "perspective" after a loss.

But it is true that the recent losses don't hurt that badly since the Cubbies are still only 1 game out of first.

Sure you'd prefer to have taken over first place and made gains but you have to like where you're at, well within reach of winning the division.

The Cubbies are "lucky" to play in the NL Central though where a team with .518 winning percentage and on pace to win a mere 84 games is only one game out of first.  Of course as the Cardinals demonstrated that's enough to win it all.

by DrCrawdad on Aug 8, 2007 11:07 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Of couse,
the White Sox had a 4-14 record in interleague play vs. NL teams, sooooooo....
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Aug 8, 2007 11:23 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

And you're point is...
...what exactly?  

The Sox have a lousy record against the NL (and a lousy record overall) this proves that the NL Central is great?

The Sox record against the NL does not change the fact that the Cubbies are in a weak division, arguably the weakest division -  in MLB two years in a row.

by DrCrawdad on Aug 8, 2007 11:32 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

oops
And YOUR point is..

by DrCrawdad on Aug 8, 2007 11:58 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm sure no one
feels worse about the cuurent lack of offensive production than the players do. You can see it in their faces the last couple of games. We all hope it's just a minor slump and they will get back to their winning ways soon.

I really enjoy being able to chat with other fans during the games but the last couple of nights it has not been fun in here. Not just the negativity but the language and insults are just awful. Where were these same posters when the Cubs had their winning streak going? It's baseball played by humans not robots. The way some carried on last night maybe they need to find a different sport or team to watch. Maybe the Debbie Downers could start a diary during the games to do their bitching and bashing in there.

Here's hoping Z gets a win tonight!!

I love this team!!!!!

by sue369 on Aug 8, 2007 9:37 AM CDT   0 recs

Where's the angst coming from?
How about a lineup that STILL features the likes of Jones, Pagan, and Kendall/Hill.  Pure misery at the plate and subpar on the field.  Sure the Brewers can lose every game for the rest of the season but does that really make anyone feel better about our chances in the postseason?  At least if Pie and Soto are striking out, there's hope for a lesson learned and potential for improvement.  But if the Cubs hold the position that these guys are AAA all-stars who are always going to be overmatched by big league pitching then you need to commit to that decision and trade them for guys who can hit.  It's like they're scared of having another Jason Dubois situation and Lou Brock situation all at the same time, so as a result we're stuck with a below average lineup with "big league experience".

by Jerry Mumphrey on Aug 8, 2007 9:37 AM CDT   0 recs

Jason Kendall is actually enjoying a nice...
...little offensive renaissance since his trade to the Cubs. It may well be smoke and mirrors, but without a time machine or an all-seeing eye sometimes we're reduced to making judgements based on small sample sizes. He's not the problem with the offense, at least not currently..

Jones is starting to pick up, too. I wish he'd keep the ball off the ground a bit more often and maybe try to end up on second every so often, but you go to war with the center fielder you have, not the center fielder you may want. He's not, right this moment, killing the team. Although I'd still have him pass through a suck detector before letting him in the clubhouse, just in case.

Guys currently slumping badly: Mike Fontenot and Cliff Floyd. Those are the guys you want to start looking at.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 8, 2007 9:45 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Agreed...
and you can add Pagan to the list of "killing us lately."

by SouthernCub on Aug 8, 2007 9:47 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

What is Jones picking up?
He has zero power and hits most everything weakly on the ground.  Last night he had his chance to show us he could at least execute well enough to get that run home from third and what did he do?  Popped out weakly to SS.  If he can't hit for some occasional power, he's worthless.

by Itchy on Aug 8, 2007 9:59 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

"Alleged"?
Didn't Bonds say he had been using "The Clear" for awhile, a steriod? He denies knowing what it was at the time, sure, but that does not mean he didn't take steroids. He is a known user, whether he knew what he was taking or not. That's the problem with Bonds: we know he's juiced, yet there's really nothing in place to punish him for it. So we must sit and watch him break his records, knowing in our hearts that he's a great player that destroyed his own legend rather than build upon it like he might have. He is a living morality tale.
"Mine, mine, says the squirrel to the transformer, unclear on the capacities of electricity." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Aug 8, 2007 9:40 AM CDT   0 recs

Technicalities...
I think he said he took something that people assume is the clear, but he thought it was flaxseed oil.  Thus, he didn't admit to taking steroids.  He said he doesn't know if he took steroids or not.  Legally, that's different.  Hence, the "alleged" nature of it.

by SouthernCub on Aug 8, 2007 9:43 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

He admitted
to taking something that was revealed to be steroid.  You can say he took steroids.  The "allegedly" comes in when you discuss whether he knowingly took steroids, or should have know that he was taking steroids.

The more disgusting thing is that all of this information came from leaked testimony.

by TC Cubby on Aug 8, 2007 9:58 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Not quite accurate...
he admitted taking something that someone (who didn't see him actually take it) said was a steroid.  No one has definitely proved what he took was a steroid.  The only ones who'd know for sure it was a steroid (Bonds and his trainer Greg Anderson) either won't admit to taking a steroid (Bonds) or won't talk at all (Anderson).  So, it remains alleged.  You and I can connect the dots with common sense, but legally you can't say he definitely did steroids.

by SouthernCub on Aug 8, 2007 10:06 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Actually...
...he did admit to using the cream and the clear.  He just claims that he believed them to be "arthritis cream" and flaxseed oil.  Yeah, and Michael Irvin though those crack rocks were aspirin.

by 60613 on Aug 8, 2007 10:32 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Again, not quite true...
he admitted to using something he thought was arthritic balm and flaxseed oil.  He never admitted to using the cream and the clear.  The prosecutors contend that the substances are the cream and the clear, but they can't prove it.  Until the link can be made for certain that what he took was the clear, then he hasn't admitted to using them.

It's a minute distinction I realize.  And I'm not saying I don't fully believe he did steroids.  I fully believe that he did the cream and the clear.  I'm just saying that legally it's not proven.  I was just explaining the "alleged" nature of it.  In the court of public opinion and common sense, he's certainly done steroids.  But in the court of innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt, it's just alleged steroid use.

by SouthernCub on Aug 8, 2007 10:39 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Is that
you Tim?
"You can't take life to seriously, you don't get out of it alive"

by wild bill on Aug 8, 2007 1:14 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

so what?
Bonds is now the HR king. just accept it. who care what he was on. if he managed to get past the testing protocals, then he is safe, just as a runner who is called safe on a play where he was obviously out is still safe. that's just baseball.

by anormal on Aug 8, 2007 12:07 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Sadaharu Oh, Josh Gibson and Kelly Leak...
Bonds still needs to pass these 3 to be considered the greatest HR hitter of all time.
"A hot dog at the ball park is better than steak at the Ritz." -- Humphrey Bogart

by hokie316 on Aug 8, 2007 9:41 AM CDT   0 recs

JOSH Gibson...
...was certainly a notable figure, but the amount of documentation of his home runs is sadly lacking; this is contributed to by the fact that the Negro League was a short-season league where players suplimented their income with travelling exhibition games, games that are used to come to Gibson's home run total. I'm sure that Gibson was a great ballplayer, but his numbers truly need to be taken with bushelfulls of salt.

Oh's case is nearly as tenuous; Nippon Baseball is roughly a AAA league; you inclue Bonds' minor league numbers and Oh doesn't look so far away.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 8, 2007 9:51 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

More info on Gibson and Oh
Gibson was dead just a few months past his 36th birthday.  It seems extremely unlikely that he could have hit "almost 800" home runs before then, as his plaque in Cooperstown claims.  In fact, in official Negro League games, Gibson probably hit fewer than 200 home runs.  The rest of his home runs were all barnstorming and exhibition games.  And even then, the total of 800 seems unlikely.

Because of his early death (and illness that struck him at 31), it seems very unlikely that Gibson would have even hit 500 home runs in the majors. On top of that, he was a catcher who wouldn't have played a full schedule in the majors. He was a great, great player though and might have broken Ruth's 60 HR in a season record if he'd have played in the majors in his mid-20s.

I wouldn't call NPB a AAA league anymore.  It's better than AAA, not quite as good as the majors.  But still, in Oh's time, I think it is fair to call it a AAA league, or maybe even AA at the start of Oh's career.  And one thing we know about NPB is that they've got a lot of parks where it is easy to hit home runs.  If you look at the drop in Hideki Matsui's HR totals, he's gone from being a guy who hit between 40 and 50 homers a year to someone who hits between 25 and 35 in the majors.  That's a good approximation of the difference in the leagues (knock off 15-20 HRs a year), and it was even greater in Oh's time.

by Josh77 on Aug 8, 2007 1:29 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Not necessarily in that order....
LMAO!  Kelly Leak was the man!

by eamuscatuli1881 on Aug 8, 2007 11:24 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

A Tough Game to Watch.
I was there last night, and it was a tough loss to swallow.  From the get-go, it looked like Williams was toast.  He threw something like 30 pitches in the first inning, and walked in a run.  Yet we couldn't empty the loaded bases.  Again, later on, we couldn't empty the loaded bases in the third.  

I was sitting with my dad. (When we both show up, the Cubs are 0-3, so we may have to put the kabosh on going to games together!)  I agreed with his estimation: the boys just looked lethargic.  There was no fire.  Sean Marshall threw great for five plus innings, but got no support.  I thought things would pick up with Matty hit the solo shot into left-center, and then Riot got on base (I think), but that fizzled out too.  There was no pop to the bats, and I wonder if the Cubs underestimated the 'Stros this time.

Walking out of the Juicebox with not a small number of other disappointed Cubs fans, I tried to focus on the good: it was the first time I got to see Kerry Wood throw, and I saw Matty knock one out (I'm still a fan of the redhead, I can't deny it).

Al's right.  The season's not over, not by a far stretch.  As long as the Brewers keep imploding, it buys us time to get over this mini-funk.  But we have to find a way to get fired up again.  I didn't see it last night.  Here's hoping Z wakes us up.

by Teacherdave on Aug 8, 2007 9:48 AM CDT   0 recs

Pie vs. Patterson vs. JJ
Two of the three must be here --
All 3 are lefties -- one is a potential leadoff man -- one provides defense -- the third is a veteran who provides nothing.
For the first three months of the season we were all on the dump JJ bandwagon. What has changed?
He has once decent week since his return to a semi-regular place in the lineup. He still continues to fail in the clutch, hits ground ball after ground ball, flails at breaking pitches, swings through fastballs, and never works the count.
Unless you can find gold in a right handed bat that some other team puts out there for the waiver taking, it is time once again to offer JJ to the dogs.
And do not give me the "eat the salary" woes of the organization. If the lowly Devil Rays and their nickel and dime ownership can eat the 2-1/2 million dollar salary of the Ohman-like Casey Fossum (which they did yesterday), the pennywise and pound foolish Cubs can launch JJ.

by ceegeewow on Aug 8, 2007 9:50 AM CDT   0 recs

Jones hits the best of the 3...
it hasn't been just one month.  Since July 1, here is his line: 25/81, 9 2B, .312/.384/.429.  He's not hitting for any power, but he's getting on base a lot and hitting for base hits.  That's MUCH better than Pie has provided.

Compare that to the crap that Pie was hitting by the time he was sent down.

When Jones had an OBP around .300 and was playing RF badly, I was in agreement that he was hurting the team.  Now, he's playing a solid defensive CF, and he's producing offensively.  Hence, I've laid off the he's hurting the team stance.

by SouthernCub on Aug 8, 2007 9:58 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Thanks , Al for jumping
on the Oh-Man! "good riddance" tangent.

He is a LOOGY where a LOOGY is a luxury right now, and I never could stand the guy. If used for ONE batter and ONE batter only, he would be palatable sometimes- but Lou was not willing to do this.

In comparing teams, the Phillies have lost Utley (and Victorino) - not a skip; the Mets lost their "Soriano" (Beltran) and they kicked our ass.

Unfortunately, no one is willing to step up now that is being paid big time star money. Ryan Theriot, a guy making minimum, is the only person that can be counted on.

It is very discouraging and telling.

It is AUGUST, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Aug 8, 2007 9:56 AM CDT   0 recs

I'm not sure you can make a correlation
Does the Cubs mini-funk have anything to do with Soriano?

I don't think so.  They looked poised to scuffle a little to me even before he went down.  I think it is less the failure of guys stepping up in the absence of Soriano than the fact that the team is just going through a rough patch (and would be doing so even if Soriano was in the lineup).  

by SuperContext on Aug 8, 2007 12:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Final Thoughts About Ohman
Just read the comments by Ohman after the Cubs shipped him to the pig farms.
What really pisses me off and I'm sure most of the people on this venue are the offerings made by Ohman about his shoulder.
Listen you dung head, the Cubs are trying to take the cake here. We all could care less about what you have and have not done. If you were having a problem with your shoulder -- even a minor one -- "tell the trainer and the manager and get your ass on the DL." Now you are using this problem as an excuse for your crappy performances over the past month? We need someone to get people out -- not some lame shouldered lob slinger who all of a sudden blames his problems on a bad arm. If you are really a team player, you would have stepped up and told management the problems you were experiencing.
After this self-excusing presentation, this poor excuse for a Cub and a contributing teammate should never be allowed to cross the white lines again at Wrigley Field unless he is a member of the opposition.

by ceegeewow on Aug 8, 2007 9:57 AM CDT   0 recs

WOW!
Right on, Cousin!

I hope the Brewers pick him up - next year (although, unfortunately, Hendry signed him until 2008)

It is AUGUST, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Aug 8, 2007 10:04 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs