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A Little Perspective, Please

Six days ago all of us were reveling in the fact that the Cubs had moved percentage points ahead of the Brewers into first place; they even moved the flag on the scoreboard to the top spot.

So why now is there so much angst? The Cubs lost 5-2 to the Astros last night, and looked bad doing it; but with the Brewers blowing a 3-run lead and losing big in Colorado, 11-4, giving the Rockies two five-run innings in the process, the Cubs remain this morning only one game out of first place, still even in the loss column.

There are fifty games remaining; the Cubs have a 58-54 record. If they can go 30-20 -- and they've played better than this over a previous 50-game period this year -- I believe that, which would result in 88 wins, would be enough to win the Central.

They're not going to do it playing the way they did last night, though. I'm kind of tired of reading articles like this one which blame the last two losses on the loss of Alfonso Soriano. Soriano hasn't hit that much since the All-Star break, and he doesn't appear to have "40-40" in him this year.

Would Soriano have made a difference in the first inning last night? No, because Ryan Theriot led off the game with a walk. When was the last time you saw Soriano do that? The failure was in the middle of the order. You might say that missing Aramis Ramirez last night was at fault, but the bottom line is -- other players have to step up; everyone knows Ramirez has to sit from time to time because of his knee troubles. The Cubs could have had Woody Williams out of the game early; scoring only one run out of a bases-loaded, nobody-out situation is asking for the momentum to shift, and it did.

Sean Marshall threw well enough; Kerry Wood allowed two of his inherited runners to score, so even though Wood's ERA remains at zero, and the boxscore says the bullpen did a good job, it really didn't. Had Wood been able to retire Carlos Lee and Ty Wigginton, the Cubs would have pulled to within 3-2 on Matt Murton's subsequent HR and perhaps, then, would have been able to come back.

I hate the pulled-in infield, incidentally. How many times have you actually seen that work? And how many times have you seen a hitter slap a ball that would have resulted in an out if the infielder had been in his normal position, right through? Are you telling me that a shortstop couldn't throw to the plate from twenty feet further back? I wish Lou would stop doing this.

There isn't much more to say, other than that Eric Patterson got his first major league hit, a bloop over Astros SS Eric Bruntlett's outstretched glove. He also struck out twice. That isn't necessarily an indictment of him, as the rest of the team struck out eleven times. Still, I'm not sure that he's the answer to anything at this point. The Sun-Times recap linked above says:

[Lou] Piniella alluded to the lineup's problems being a contributing factor to some of the problems attributed to the recently beleaguered pitching staff. But whether the Cubs have a move up their sleeve to fix the problems, Piniella referred questions to general manager Jim Hendry.

And Hendry said only that he and his staff are working the waiver wires for possible help.

Well, at least they're thinking about acquiring someone. I'm still on the Jose Cruz bandwagon -- I know some of you have scoffed at that notion, but the guy can play all three OF positions, has a bit of power, and will draw walks. He was released, thus could be acquired for nothing. If he's terrible, just release him again. I also know the Cubs have had some interest in Jonny Gomes; Gomes, too, has some power (13 HR this season so far in 199 AB) and had a big game last night, 3-for-4 with a HR and 4 RBI. I don't have any specific knowledge, but I imagine Gomes has cleared waivers and the Cubs could get him if they really wanted him, though Tampa Bay has been in the past difficult to deal with.

So, tonight Carlos Zambrano has to, once again, play the role of "stopper", this time stopping a three-game losing streak, the team's first in two months.

Notes: Will Ohman claims he's hurt and thus shouldn't have been sent down. Note, though:

Ohman, who told Cubs officials of the soreness after he was told of the roster move, was vague about how long the shoulder has been bothering him.

So -- this was only an issue AFTER you were sent down, Will? Read between the lines and you'll find the real reason:

As surprising as Will Ohman's demotion to the minors was Tuesday, the timing made it worse for the left-hander, who planned to see family in the Denver area during the Cubs' trip to Colorado this weekend, leading up to his 30th birthday on Monday's scheduled day off. "It stinks," he said. "I mean, my folks haven't seen their grandkids in six months or so."

Well, waah, waah, waah, Will. You mean with that $2.5 million, two-year deal you signed last year, you couldn't have bought a couple of plane tickets for your kids to see their grandparents?

This team is better off without him, for quite a number of different reasons, it would seem.

After the Cub game ended I flipped on the end of the White Sox/Indians game to hear how Steve Stone fit in with that other guy they have in the booth. Surprisingly, Stone seemed at ease, and did one of the things he does best -- called a couple of pitch sequences perfectly. Stone will be calling Sox games the rest of this week, as Darrin Jackson is in Arizona with his wife, who had their fourth child yesterday. If you don't live in the Chicago area and want to hear Stone, the Sox game vs. the Mariners on Saturday at 6:05 CT will be on WGN.

Finally, I have only this to say about Barry Bonds' breaking of Hank Aaron's HR record last night: Bonds now has hit the most home runs in major league history. But that does not make him the greatest HR hitter. There's a difference. This massively talented individual, who was a first-ballot Hall of Famer before he (allegedly) took a single steroid, has always been a great baseball player. If only he'd accomplished this feat without a cloud of suspicion over his head, I'd be more willing to celebrate this historic event. Instead, I simply note, as I did when he hit HR #752 and #753 at Wrigley Field last month, that we are witnesses to history.

Now let's get back into first place tonight.

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Gomes
I think would be easy to get. He's kind of an odd man out down there. However, he lacks the versatility of Cruz, Jr. But check out Gomes' career line vs. LHP: .297/.402/.539 w/ a .951 OPS.
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Aug 8, 2007 8:53 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I imagine...
... Gomes, if acquired, goes right into RF platooning with Floyd. Or if he hits, maybe even plays every day.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 8, 2007 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

All for it
That would be a fantastic addition. However, the Rays are the Rays and are a pain in the ass to trade with. I'm not exactly sure we could get him for a fair value (not that I know what "fair value" would be).

Also, I would kind of be suprised if he cleared waivers. He's a powerful right handed bat who takes walks and played a serviceable outfield. Of course he strikes out a lot as well. But, and I may be (and probably am) wrong here but I think he still probably makes close to the league min. If he did clear waivers, he is without a doubt the one we should target.

by hawkeyenation on Aug 8, 2007 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are not wrong...
He makes about $350,000, as he has yet to reach arbitration eligibility.  And I agree - an inexpensive bat like that would not likely clear waivers easily.  Especially in the AL, where he could also DH if the OF is crowded.

If he did make it here, I'd expect he'd see a lot of RF.  Floyd is just not getting it done these days, and it may be that the wear and tear of a 162 game season is too much for him at this point.

by SouthernCub on Aug 8, 2007 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gomes is a much better
choice. None of you have seen enough of Cruz Jr to realize he...stinks, stinks, stinks. The Cubs may as well let Patterson play -- at least he's young and may have a future.

Cruz's career is toast. He hit, oh, about .600 in April, and about .120 since. Had he been able to hit, at least .260, there's no way the Padres release him, and take a flyer on the troubled Milton Bradley, (who's been injured more than he's been in the line-up) and scrub Scott Hairston (Who promptly hits 3 sucessive HR's, tying a team record. That means the 99-cent store shopping can help for a game or two, but that's about it.)

No Cruz Jr. Please.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 8, 2007 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

a little perspective my butt.
If i wannna be a raving lunatic, that's what I am going to be.

seriously though. a 3 game losing streak, though frustrating, is far from the end of the world. Obviously it would be nice to have gained ground on the Brew Crew, but it hasn't happened. They will get it together here. We all just need to take deep cleansing breath and relax. Things will be ok.

AC 00 00 00 - BELIEVE

by mike on Aug 8, 2007 8:58 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

"Perspective" amplification
Every team, in every season, goes through "flat spots" and the Cubs are in one now.  They don't last forever, they never do, and while we know this one will end (sooner rather than later, please!) the fact that it's getting to the transition from midseason to late in the season is what's making people a little edgy.

A few more runs scored here and there would be nice.  A little bit of a pitching improvement likewise.  

3 games isn't the end of the world, a few more and then it will be time for the nerves...

by MN exile on Aug 8, 2007 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree, but...
Last year's "flat spot" was about 140 games.

They need a very good game tonight so they can get back to the business of GOOD baseball, or the last two months of this season could look a lot more like the first two than the past two.

"Whoever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" - Frank Chance

by STLCubFan on Aug 8, 2007 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is not last year.
Granted, the NL Central isn't the strongest division in baseball, still, last year the Cubs were never in it.  This year, we're a game off the division lead with 2/3+ of August and all of September to go.

Take a few deep breaths, dude...

by MN exile on Aug 8, 2007 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm still optimistic...
mostly. I just hope Zambrano can win the Cubs a game tonight, and they can change the momentum a little. The Rockies are torrid right now, and this road trip could be pretty painful if the Cubs can't get something out of the Brewers' simultaneous struggles.
"Whoever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" - Frank Chance

by STLCubFan on Aug 8, 2007 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

On Bonds...
I was watching that game last night before I went to bed simply to see if he would hit it. I was really suprised at how little I felt when watching it. I wasn't disgusted with it (even though I think he is a bad person in a general way) and I didn't get all goosebumped like I do when I'm watching other historic moments unfold. It was just....nothing. Did anyone else feel this? It was just a dead historic moment for me, and that was an odd feeling.

by hawkeyenation on Aug 8, 2007 9:02 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I was asleep when it happened.
But seeing the highlights, and the speech he gave, this morning -- I felt the same way. Yawn. It happened. Now let's get back to the pennant races.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 8, 2007 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Al: did you see the post/article I put up
yesterday concerning Bond's "bio-mechanical aid" elbow pad?  Any thoughts/comments?
That white W flag is the most beautiful sight to see. Go Cubs Go!!

by LAcarl519 on Aug 8, 2007 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I felt the same way
I didn't see it until I woke up this morning.  At first, when I saw the headline I thought "Wow", and then when I watched the replay and listened to speeches I felt.... nothing.....  Probably it's because I don't like all the sappy, feel-good love fests that MLB puts on now at every big event, though I guess you can't blame Bud and Co. for this one.  From a baseball perspective it was pretty neat I guess.
I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey

by pageian on Aug 8, 2007 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ohman
I'm sure Sweet Lou is so sorry to have disrupted Will's BD plans.

by rgonzale on Aug 8, 2007 9:05 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I dont want to be that guy but...
If you take a look at the past 2 games and the lineups for both, they are basically the same Dusty would have had last year assuming everyone was healthy.  Now you can blame Dusty for all the hitting woes last year and his 'free swinging attitude' all you want - but this team (the past two games) looks very similar to what it was last year.

Dont take this as doom and gloom, as i have stated before i think Lou is a motivating coach as oppose to Dusty's laid back attitude, and hopefully Lou can get these guys focused and back on a hot streak.

PS - i am a supporter of Jones as we all know, but that was absolutel unbelievable last night in the first inning.  A pitcher walks 3 in the inning and you go up there hacking at the first pitch.  Not good.

by HIGGY on Aug 8, 2007 9:07 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

You are right..
That thought crossed my mind too. Last night's lineup looked awfully close to a lineup we would have seen in 2006.

by cubsnlinux on Aug 8, 2007 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jones gets a alot of hits
on the first pitch, but I would agree, you make the guy work in that situation.  Jones, is clearly someone who does not like to hit with 2 strikes, and this is why he is hacking early in the count.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 8, 2007 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Patterson/Pie
You mentioned Patterson and without making the easy comparison to his brother, if Woody Williams can get high fastballs by him, what kind of a diet of pitches do you think he's going to see?  That to me was one of the more disappointing things of the night.  Yes, the sample size is ridiculously small but judging from last night's effort, he's not ready.  If he is, and he's still got the propensity to swing at high fastballs, I'm deathly afraid the comparisons between him and his brother, at the plate anyway, are inevitable.  

With the huge OF of Colorado on the horizon, with Patterson not looking to be the answer and with the entire OF struggling, now is the time to recall Pie.  Do whatever you want with the waiver-wire guys, but Pie should be brought up NOW.

Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. -- Lee Constantine Elia, 1983.

by krummy12 on Aug 8, 2007 9:07 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Last night, left field...
...went 2-for-5 with three strikeouts and a solo home run. If that doesn't sound like a typical Soriano night then I don't know what was. Patterson and Murton weren't the problem with the offense last night.
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 8, 2007 9:13 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.
n/t
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 8, 2007 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fine
A bloop hit and a solo HR down four runs...but you got the stats right anyway.  And one of the K's was a Patterson K with the bases loaded to end the inning.  Just to supplement your stats based logic.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. -- Lee Constantine Elia, 1983.

by krummy12 on Aug 8, 2007 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right, because Soriano only...
...struvck out in non-RBI situations. Yeah.
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 8, 2007 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well...
I'm not a Murton or Patterson supporter but even I'm not that down on them. They did their job better than most of the other guys in the lineup last night, whether they were bloop or solo homers when you're down by 4. It's not their fault that the rest of the guys couldn't also pick it up last night.

by hawkeyenation on Aug 8, 2007 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Missed it
I'm not "down" on Patterson.  He's not ready.  That has nothing to do with being "down" on anyone.  If you believe his AB's last night which consisted of a bloop hit and two K's on high fastballs were evidence of him being ready to contribute, that is your opinion.  

You can even take it further and say that he was fortunate that the 1B fumbled his bunt on Tuesday night because he bunted it way too hard.  So, I'm not down on him, but...he's not ready to contribute based entirely on that small sample size.

It is also laughable to compare any of those guys to Soriano, a guy that no matter his numbers or production, perceived or otherwise, is respected at the plate by all major league pitchers.  Something that can't quite be said for Patterson just yet.  Until then, high fastballs all around.

Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. -- Lee Constantine Elia, 1983.

by krummy12 on Aug 8, 2007 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's fine
He may not be ready. That could very well be. But basing it on one game (and one horrible sac bunt- he's a Patterson, I don't think it's in their genes to know how to bunt) is a little shortsighted. Everyone has stunk the last two games. Picking out two of the players that everyone has strong opinions of (love or hate) isn't really fair. We're in a race for the playoffs, so I guess jumping to conclusions is the name of the game, I'm just not real sure pinning this on those guys and giving a free pass to Jones or Derosa or anyone else who helped pick up the 26K's the last few days is really fair.

by hawkeyenation on Aug 8, 2007 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What's your point?
What has Soriano done "in the clutch?"  You don't think he's gotten Ks with the bases loaded?

Soriano has 42 RBI this year, and at least 18 of those came on his own HR.  So it's not like he's been hitting tons of clutch hits, either (especially lately).

Look, the team is clearly better off having Soriano on the team, because he's one of the more dangerous hitters.  But based on the results last night, having him and not Murton/Patterson would not likely have made a difference.  Over the course of a season, yes, Soriano is the better option.  But last night, it didn't hurt us.

by SouthernCub on Aug 8, 2007 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well
If you're responding to me, my point is that Pie is a better option than Patterson.  Nothing at all about Soriano.  If you guys don't believe he's going to be missed in the short term and long term, you're simply in denial.  Was Soriano slumping at the plate...obviously.  Is he still a better option every day in LF?  Obviously.  

My point, missed by a few of you, is that Pie belongs in CF, especially with Colorado on the horizon, and that Patterson belongs as a September callup.  He isn't ready for major league duty on a semi-regular basis.  It's not even really about offense.  If they go into Colorado with Jones and Pagan in CF, the gaps will get a workout.  

Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. -- Lee Constantine Elia, 1983.

by krummy12 on Aug 8, 2007 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think
I don't think anyone is saying Soriano won't be missed in a big way. What we are saying is that in the last two games it wouldn't have made a difference. To crucify Patterson and Murton for these two losses isn't right. And to say Pie would have given us the wins also isn't right.

Should Pie be up instead of Patterson? Perhaps, but at the same time he didn't exactly do much with his opportunity besides with his defense. Last I checked, it's our offense which isn't doing the job.

by hawkeyenation on Aug 8, 2007 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You could really use a bit of perspective.
Because if you apply the same standards to Pie that you do to Patterson, we're going to keep the same carosel going. Everybody goes through slumps, rookies and vets. It's just that people around here want the rookies to either immediately play up to their potential or go home.

At this point, personally I'd like to see an outfield of Patterson-Pie-Murton, although I'm enough of a realist to understand that it won't happen. But it doesn't really help Patterson develop -- and it wouldn't be great for Pie, either -- for the organization to get the notion that you can write a guy off after four at-bats.

So, seriously, could we give the rookie a chance? Is that SO much to ask? Because if it is, you can start to understand why Felix Pie isn't on the team; what would he do there? What good does it do everyone?

If you start putting the pressure on, they start pressing and they start getting away from what got them to the Show in the first place. It's stupid, stupid, stupid. And it's why Mark Grace will continue to be a punchline to a very sad joke about this organization.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 8, 2007 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nothing in your previous post or this thread...
mentioned Pie at all.  This was a discussion of what Patterson/Murton did in LF compared to what Soriano would have done.  Perhaps you are getting your threads confused here?

by SouthernCub on Aug 8, 2007 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Come on man
Read the first post.  Here's a hint...the title even includes the name Pie.  Now, you tell me who has it confused.  
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. -- Lee Constantine Elia, 1983.

by krummy12 on Aug 8, 2007 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ohman
Ohman never complained of a sore shoulder until after he was optioned to Triple-A Iowa on Tuesday. "Have you seen what I've done for the last month and a half?" Ohman asked. "I was doing just fine. I've had two rough games back-to-back. Before that, I've been getting outs.

=========

Sure, well only one month and a half isn't going to cut it when the rest of the season was miserable..

Now that he is back, play Matt Murton!!

by Chanman25 on Aug 8, 2007 9:17 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The pulled-in infield didn't loose the game
but it didn't help win it. One if not two of the hits given to Wood could have easily been outs if not for the preposterous infield depth.
'07 Postseason: Bears, Bulls... Cubs?

by stelmodad on Aug 8, 2007 9:30 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Bonds and Al
First Al I apologize for putting you in a sentence with him but I wanted to cover both of you in this post.

Forgive me okay?  Does it help to know I had to watch Barney this morning?

Al one of the reasons you make a great person to run this blog is your level headedness about things.

I'm afraid to walk downtown today because of all the leaping off of buildings people are ready to do.

But you bring a levelheadedness to this site that is needed for the head guy.

On Bonds I found it just sad last night.

How joyous this time should be for baseball.

If it was anyone else but a steroid filled jerk it would be special.

I just want the Cubs to top the Bears NFC Title Game as my highlight of the year.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Aug 8, 2007 9:33 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Perspective?
Al - i know you get flamed for this type of thing, but why perspective today?

7/1:  "This isn't overhype: the Cubs really must win today." - Al

5/13:  "Time to change that streak, particularly since today is pretty much a must-win" - Al

Do you see why must-win proclamations are goofy before you get to a point where your elimination number is 0?  

Dang...I just want something to root for in September

by GamePenguin on Aug 8, 2007 9:36 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

"Must win" often followed by ...
... posts about "perspective" after a loss.

But it is true that the recent losses don't hurt that badly since the Cubbies are still only 1 game out of first.

Sure you'd prefer to have taken over first place and made gains but you have to like where you're at, well within reach of winning the division.

The Cubbies are "lucky" to play in the NL Central though where a team with .518 winning percentage and on pace to win a mere 84 games is only one game out of first.  Of course as the Cardinals demonstrated that's enough to win it all.

by DrCrawdad on Aug 8, 2007 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Of couse,
the White Sox had a 4-14 record in interleague play vs. NL teams, sooooooo....
"One thing you learn as a Cubs fan: When you bought your ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth." - Joe Garagiola

by gary varsho on Aug 8, 2007 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And you're point is...
...what exactly?  

The Sox have a lousy record against the NL (and a lousy record overall) this proves that the NL Central is great?

The Sox record against the NL does not change the fact that the Cubbies are in a weak division, arguably the weakest division -  in MLB two years in a row.

by DrCrawdad on Aug 8, 2007 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

oops
And YOUR point is..

by DrCrawdad on Aug 8, 2007 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sure no one
feels worse about the cuurent lack of offensive production than the players do. You can see it in their faces the last couple of games. We all hope it's just a minor slump and they will get back to their winning ways soon.

I really enjoy being able to chat with other fans during the games but the last couple of nights it has not been fun in here. Not just the negativity but the language and insults are just awful. Where were these same posters when the Cubs had their winning streak going? It's baseball played by humans not robots. The way some carried on last night maybe they need to find a different sport or team to watch. Maybe the Debbie Downers could start a diary during the games to do their bitching and bashing in there.

Here's hoping Z gets a win tonight!!

I love this team!!!!!

by sue369 on Aug 8, 2007 9:37 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Where's the angst coming from?
How about a lineup that STILL features the likes of Jones, Pagan, and Kendall/Hill.  Pure misery at the plate and subpar on the field.  Sure the Brewers can lose every game for the rest of the season but does that really make anyone feel better about our chances in the postseason?  At least if Pie and Soto are striking out, there's hope for a lesson learned and potential for improvement.  But if the Cubs hold the position that these guys are AAA all-stars who are always going to be overmatched by big league pitching then you need to commit to that decision and trade them for guys who can hit.  It's like they're scared of having another Jason Dubois situation and Lou Brock situation all at the same time, so as a result we're stuck with a below average lineup with "big league experience".

by Jerry Mumphrey on Aug 8, 2007 9:37 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Jason Kendall is actually enjoying a nice...
...little offensive renaissance since his trade to the Cubs. It may well be smoke and mirrors, but without a time machine or an all-seeing eye sometimes we're reduced to making judgements based on small sample sizes. He's not the problem with the offense, at least not currently..

Jones is starting to pick up, too. I wish he'd keep the ball off the ground a bit more often and maybe try to end up on second every so often, but you go to war with the center fielder you have, not the center fielder you may want. He's not, right this moment, killing the team. Although I'd still have him pass through a suck detector before letting him in the clubhouse, just in case.

Guys currently slumping badly: Mike Fontenot and Cliff Floyd. Those are the guys you want to start looking at.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 8, 2007 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed...
and you can add Pagan to the list of "killing us lately."

by SouthernCub on Aug 8, 2007 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What is Jones picking up?
He has zero power and hits most everything weakly on the ground.  Last night he had his chance to show us he could at least execute well enough to get that run home from third and what did he do?  Popped out weakly to SS.  If he can't hit for some occasional power, he's worthless.

by Itchy on Aug 8, 2007 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Alleged"?
Didn't Bonds say he had been using "The Clear" for awhile, a steriod? He denies knowing what it was at the time, sure, but that does not mean he didn't take steroids. He is a known user, whether he knew what he was taking or not. That's the problem with Bonds: we know he's juiced, yet there's really nothing in place to punish him for it. So we must sit and watch him break his records, knowing in our hearts that he's a great player that destroyed his own legend rather than build upon it like he might have. He is a living morality tale.
"Mine, mine, says the squirrel to the transformer, unclear on the capacities of electricity." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Aug 8, 2007 9:40 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Technicalities...
I think he said he took something that people assume is the clear, but he thought it was flaxseed oil.  Thus, he didn't admit to taking steroids.  He said he doesn't know if he took steroids or not.  Legally, that's different.  Hence, the "alleged" nature of it.

by SouthernCub on Aug 8, 2007 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He admitted
to taking something that was revealed to be steroid.  You can say he took steroids.  The "allegedly" comes in when you discuss whether he knowingly took steroids, or should have know that he was taking steroids.

The more disgusting thing is that all of this information came from leaked testimony.

by TC Cubby on Aug 8, 2007 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not quite accurate...
he admitted taking something that someone (who didn't see him actually take it) said was a steroid.  No one has definitely proved what he took was a steroid.  The only ones who'd know for sure it was a steroid (Bonds and his trainer Greg Anderson) either won't admit to taking a steroid (Bonds) or won't talk at all (Anderson).  So, it remains alleged.  You and I can connect the dots with common sense, but legally you can't say he definitely did steroids.

by SouthernCub on Aug 8, 2007 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually...
...he did admit to using the cream and the clear.  He just claims that he believed them to be "arthritis cream" and flaxseed oil.  Yeah, and Michael Irvin though those crack rocks were aspirin.

by 60613 on Aug 8, 2007 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again, not quite true...
he admitted to using something he thought was arthritic balm and flaxseed oil.  He never admitted to using the cream and the clear.  The prosecutors contend that the substances are the cream and the clear, but they can't prove it.  Until the link can be made for certain that what he took was the clear, then he hasn't admitted to using them.

It's a minute distinction I realize.  And I'm not saying I don't fully believe he did steroids.  I fully believe that he did the cream and the clear.  I'm just saying that legally it's not proven.  I was just explaining the "alleged" nature of it.  In the court of public opinion and common sense, he's certainly done steroids.  But in the court of innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt, it's just alleged steroid use.

by SouthernCub on Aug 8, 2007 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is that
you Tim?
"You can't take life to seriously, you don't get out of it alive"

by wild bill on Aug 8, 2007 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

so what?
Bonds is now the HR king. just accept it. who care what he was on. if he managed to get past the testing protocals, then he is safe, just as a runner who is called safe on a play where he was obviously out is still safe. that's just baseball.

by anormal on Aug 8, 2007 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sadaharu Oh, Josh Gibson and Kelly Leak...
Bonds still needs to pass these 3 to be considered the greatest HR hitter of all time.
"A hot dog at the ball park is better than steak at the Ritz." -- Humphrey Bogart

by hokie316 on Aug 8, 2007 9:41 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

JOSH Gibson...
...was certainly a notable figure, but the amount of documentation of his home runs is sadly lacking; this is contributed to by the fact that the Negro League was a short-season league where players suplimented their income with travelling exhibition games, games that are used to come to Gibson's home run total. I'm sure that Gibson was a great ballplayer, but his numbers truly need to be taken with bushelfulls of salt.

Oh's case is nearly as tenuous; Nippon Baseball is roughly a AAA league; you inclue Bonds' minor league numbers and Oh doesn't look so far away.

FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 8, 2007 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

More info on Gibson and Oh
Gibson was dead just a few months past his 36th birthday.  It seems extremely unlikely that he could have hit "almost 800" home runs before then, as his plaque in Cooperstown claims.  In fact, in official Negro League games, Gibson probably hit fewer than 200 home runs.  The rest of his home runs were all barnstorming and exhibition games.  And even then, the total of 800 seems unlikely.

Because of his early death (and illness that struck him at 31), it seems very unlikely that Gibson would have even hit 500 home runs in the majors. On top of that, he was a catcher who wouldn't have played a full schedule in the majors. He was a great, great player though and might have broken Ruth's 60 HR in a season record if he'd have played in the majors in his mid-20s.

I wouldn't call NPB a AAA league anymore.  It's better than AAA, not quite as good as the majors.  But still, in Oh's time, I think it is fair to call it a AAA league, or maybe even AA at the start of Oh's career.  And one thing we know about NPB is that they've got a lot of parks where it is easy to hit home runs.  If you look at the drop in Hideki Matsui's HR totals, he's gone from being a guy who hit between 40 and 50 homers a year to someone who hits between 25 and 35 in the majors.  That's a good approximation of the difference in the leagues (knock off 15-20 HRs a year), and it was even greater in Oh's time.

by Josh77 on Aug 8, 2007 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not necessarily in that order....
LMAO!  Kelly Leak was the man!

by eamuscatuli1881 on Aug 8, 2007 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A Tough Game to Watch.
I was there last night, and it was a tough loss to swallow.  From the get-go, it looked like Williams was toast.  He threw something like 30 pitches in the first inning, and walked in a run.  Yet we couldn't empty the loaded bases.  Again, later on, we couldn't empty the loaded bases in the third.  

I was sitting with my dad. (When we both show up, the Cubs are 0-3, so we may have to put the kabosh on going to games together!)  I agreed with his estimation: the boys just looked lethargic.  There was no fire.  Sean Marshall threw great for five plus innings, but got no support.  I thought things would pick up with Matty hit the solo shot into left-center, and then Riot got on base (I think), but that fizzled out too.  There was no pop to the bats, and I wonder if the Cubs underestimated the 'Stros this time.

Walking out of the Juicebox with not a small number of other disappointed Cubs fans, I tried to focus on the good: it was the first time I got to see Kerry Wood throw, and I saw Matty knock one out (I'm still a fan of the redhead, I can't deny it).

Al's right.  The season's not over, not by a far stretch.  As long as the Brewers keep imploding, it buys us time to get over this mini-funk.  But we have to find a way to get fired up again.  I didn't see it last night.  Here's hoping Z wakes us up.

by Teacherdave on Aug 8, 2007 9:48 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Pie vs. Patterson vs. JJ
Two of the three must be here --
All 3 are lefties -- one is a potential leadoff man -- one provides defense -- the third is a veteran who provides nothing.
For the first three months of the season we were all on the dump JJ bandwagon. What has changed?
He has once decent week since his return to a semi-regular place in the lineup. He still continues to fail in the clutch, hits ground ball after ground ball, flails at breaking pitches, swings through fastballs, and never works the count.
Unless you can find gold in a right handed bat that some other team puts out there for the waiver taking, it is time once again to offer JJ to the dogs.
And do not give me the "eat the salary" woes of the organization. If the lowly Devil Rays and their nickel and dime ownership can eat the 2-1/2 million dollar salary of the Ohman-like Casey Fossum (which they did yesterday), the pennywise and pound foolish Cubs can launch JJ.

by ceegeewow on Aug 8, 2007 9:50 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Jones hits the best of the 3...
it hasn't been just one month.  Since July 1, here is his line: 25/81, 9 2B, .312/.384/.429.  He's not hitting for any power, but he's getting on base a lot and hitting for base hits.  That's MUCH better than Pie has provided.

Compare that to the crap that Pie was hitting by the time he was sent down.

When Jones had an OBP around .300 and was playing RF badly, I was in agreement that he was hurting the team.  Now, he's playing a solid defensive CF, and he's producing offensively.  Hence, I've laid off the he's hurting the team stance.

by SouthernCub on Aug 8, 2007 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks , Al for jumping
on the Oh-Man! "good riddance" tangent.

He is a LOOGY where a LOOGY is a luxury right now, and I never could stand the guy. If used for ONE batter and ONE batter only, he would be palatable sometimes- but Lou was not willing to do this.

In comparing teams, the Phillies have lost Utley (and Victorino) - not a skip; the Mets lost their "Soriano" (Beltran) and they kicked our ass.

Unfortunately, no one is willing to step up now that is being paid big time star money. Ryan Theriot, a guy making minimum, is the only person that can be counted on.

It is very discouraging and telling.

It is AUGUST, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Aug 8, 2007 9:56 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure you can make a correlation
Does the Cubs mini-funk have anything to do with Soriano?

I don't think so.  They looked poised to scuffle a little to me even before he went down.  I think it is less the failure of guys stepping up in the absence of Soriano than the fact that the team is just going through a rough patch (and would be doing so even if Soriano was in the lineup).  

by SuperContext on Aug 8, 2007 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Final Thoughts About Ohman
Just read the comments by Ohman after the Cubs shipped him to the pig farms.
What really pisses me off and I'm sure most of the people on this venue are the offerings made by Ohman about his shoulder.
Listen you dung head, the Cubs are trying to take the cake here. We all could care less about what you have and have not done. If you were having a problem with your shoulder -- even a minor one -- "tell the trainer and the manager and get your ass on the DL." Now you are using this problem as an excuse for your crappy performances over the past month? We need someone to get people out -- not some lame shouldered lob slinger who all of a sudden blames his problems on a bad arm. If you are really a team player, you would have stepped up and told management the problems you were experiencing.
After this self-excusing presentation, this poor excuse for a Cub and a contributing teammate should never be allowed to cross the white lines again at Wrigley Field unless he is a member of the opposition.

by ceegeewow on Aug 8, 2007 9:57 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

WOW!
Right on, Cousin!

I hope the Brewers pick him up - next year (although, unfortunately, Hendry signed him until 2008)

It is AUGUST, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Aug 8, 2007 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In case you've
never been to Des Moines it's not a pig farm. If you thought you were being funny you failed.
I love this team!!!!!

by sue369 on Aug 8, 2007 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh yes.
GO HAWKS

by hawkeyenation on Aug 8, 2007 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry, friend.
I may be going to Wartburg, but my dad is an Iowa State alum.  Go Cyclones!

by WartburgCub on Aug 8, 2007 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

BOOOOOOOOOO
Just kidding. It's a fun rivalry with Iowa State. One of my best friends went to school there. It obviously isn't as great as Iowa City, but it's not the worst place on earth I suppose. That said, we manage to just completely suck every year against them in football even though we have the better team every year. Ah well, I have high hopes for the Hawks this year.

by hawkeyenation on Aug 8, 2007 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My pal ...
Lasted a year at Iowa State ... and chose to return to the cultural capital of the world, Little Rock.  Now that's sayin' somethin!

In this land of the SEC all the time, I do miss the Big 10 ...

--t.

"One of the worst writers on this board: !Neifi! didn't do it, honest."

by Littlerock Rynofan on Aug 8, 2007 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Iowa State is
in the Big 12 formerly the Big 8. The University Of Iowa is in the Big 10.
I love this team!!!!!

by sue369 on Aug 8, 2007 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The rivalry is fun...
one of my best friends lives on Hawkeye Report.  I'll reserve judgement on the Hawkeyes this season, but I'm pretty confident the Cyclones won't be anything to write home about.

by WartburgCub on Aug 8, 2007 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pigs and Iowa
What's non-laughable funny is how lousy Ohman was for most of the year.
The comment was not directed at Des Moines but at Iowa as a whole.
For your information, Iowa is the largest pork producing state. Maybe Wil can find a job where he does not have to use his lame arm.

by ceegeewow on Aug 8, 2007 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Very true
As someone who has lived his entire life in Iowa I can tell you indeed there is a lot of farming going on. Hell, I am dating a farm girl right now (she has, however, moved off the farm and to Rockford for a job.....which means I'll most likely be relocating eventually).

Sometimes we get a little touchy I suppose about the cornfield/pig field type stuff. It's not all we are, obviously, but it's a big chunk of this state's culture. It's a stereotype we have to deal with. Same as the people from Illinois have to deal with automatically being labeled as bad drivers.

by hawkeyenation on Aug 8, 2007 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why bash Iowa...
....when it's so easy to bash Nebraska?

(Running and hiding)

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 8, 2007 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Keep fighting the good fight there.
SOMEBODY has to.

I've had a negative feeling towards Nebraska because of a girl. 25 years ago. I have trouble forgiving.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 8, 2007 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

BAD DRIVER!!!
What, oh sorry about the caps, I was weaving at 90mph through traffic as I typed this on my BlackTreo 20000.

How can you say we're bad dr...

by N Oakley on Aug 8, 2007 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you
I actually laughed out loud here at work at that. Good stuff.

In all seriousness though, I think she actually got a few of those responses when she told people she was taking a job in Rockford.

Based on the handfull of times I've been there I still don't get the stereotype. It's no different than any other town with it's "good" and "bad" parts.

by hawkeyenation on Aug 8, 2007 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I live in Iowa
and have most of my life. My family makes it's living off of the hog industry. However there is much more to Iowa than hogs.

GO HAWKS!!!

I love this team!!!!!

by sue369 on Aug 8, 2007 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Des Moines has little to do with farming.
It has everything to do with stealing your soul. Seriously, from what I've seen of it Des Moines is the per capita concrete capitol of the world. Greyest place on earth.
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 8, 2007 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Have you ever been to Des Moines?
I realize you probably didn't mean anything by saying "pig farm" but thats entirely incorrect.  Even people in Iowa don't like smelling hog crap so  the confinements area nowhere near towns.  In fact there are a few law suits from small towns complaining about the smell.   Also Principal park in Des Moines where the Icubs play has been voted nicest stadium a few times.  Its really nice for a AAA place.  You are totally right about Ohman, but personally I think Scott E is much worse, when he is bad he seems like a frustrated little kid on the mound.        

by scuba4 on Aug 8, 2007 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I meant...
THROUGH 2008
It is AUGUST, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Aug 8, 2007 10:04 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

What was he thinking?
What was Hendry thinking?  I remember Ohman once showed a little bit of talent, but not enough for anyone to sign him THROUGH 2008.  Interesting.  

I like Hendry but sometimes he gets pretty mediocre people (Jones, Jeremy Bernitz).

For example, I never could figure out why he chose Barrett over Pudge, and why he let Nomar and Alou go.  Didn't make sense to me.

by zevkalman on Aug 8, 2007 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Options?
I like Hendry but sometimes he gets pretty mediocre people (Jones, Jeremy Bernitz).

Who should have have gotten instead?  Did you have better options?

by big_lowitzki on Aug 8, 2007 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The difference between Ohman...
...and the rest of the people named was that Hendry had to give Will Ohman money no matter what; Hendry bought out Ohman's arbitration years. And Hendry probably got a discount on those in exchange for the upfront guarantee. It wasn't like we signed him out of free agency, he was a guy we drafted.
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 8, 2007 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jones? Burtnitz?
I was referring to who you would have signed to play RF instead of Burnitz and Jones.  

But as for Ohman, he really has not been that bad.  He had two bad outings in a row - it happens.  But he hasn't been a bad pitcher.

And when he faces lefties, he continues to get the job done for the most part.  He will be back with the Cubs.

by big_lowitzki on Aug 8, 2007 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good moves
Barrett was better than Pudge.  Nomar was an injury every other day.  Alou was getting really old, although i did want him back for a year or two.

by californiachicagoan on Aug 8, 2007 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A few things...
I can't remember Derrek Lee looking as bad at the plate as he has the last few days.  Especially the sombrero he wore last night.

I can't remember the last time I saw Cliff Floyd at the plate and expected him to even make contact.

I think Pie should be recalled.  Period.  Especially with the large alleys of Coors Field looming.

Wasn't Ohman the team representative to the players' union?  I thought I read that earlier this year.

by WartburgCub on Aug 8, 2007 10:05 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Lee
must be frustrated at the 4 inches below the knees calls that have been going against him lately. He must start swinging at those pitches.

by EliasTirade on Aug 8, 2007 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lee's not a free swinger
Ala Sorianno...not his style.  So he can get burned by a home plate umpire having a bad night with his vision.  I prefer Lee to retain his approach, and keep clogging the bases.

by Cajuncub on Aug 8, 2007 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Clogging up the bases?
Dusty, is that you? Just kidding.

We need to clog up the bases. Eventually something good will happen. And it's not like Lee runs like Floyd or Ward.

We really need hitters like Lee to take pitches and make pitchers work.

by hawkeyenation on Aug 8, 2007 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Runs like
Floyd or Ward. That visual made me laugh.
I love this team!!!!!

by sue369 on Aug 8, 2007 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which part?
The unintentional slow motion look to them trying to run full speed? Or was it the sound of all the old joints trying to get loose enough to go 90 feet? :)

by hawkeyenation on Aug 8, 2007 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol
Both actually.
I love this team!!!!!

by sue369 on Aug 8, 2007 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not asking him
to change his approach at the plate. I LOVE that he's not a free-swinger.  

Just saying that NO ump is giving him that pitch anymore.

by EliasTirade on Aug 8, 2007 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed.
While Lee is not a free swinger, and I appreciate that, I still think you need to make adjustments from game to game and within a game based on where they are pitching you and the strike zone the ump is using (whether it is right or wrong).  Maybe I am missing the effect it could have on him long-term if he starts swinging at pitches he believes are out of the zone...  I just was always taught that with two strikes, you should swing at anything close and it was especially frustrating in at least one of his strikeouts last night because we did not need a hit or a deep fly, we just needed contact.

by lji001 on Aug 8, 2007 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Wartburg"??
It is AUGUST, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Aug 8, 2007 10:10 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

yeah
I'm going to be a freshman at Wartburg College in Waverly, IA this fall.

by WartburgCub on Aug 8, 2007 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Cubs need Lou and Hendry to step up
This is the type of streak that can derail a couple of fine months. Lou and Hendry need to take some type of action, what that is? I don't know.

The Cubs need a spark and Theroit only can do so much. Fontenot needs to get hot again or Derrick Lee needs to fine his stroke. Something.

Lou, get them back on the track and get them going.

Here's to hoping that Z rights the ship tonight and sets them up and knock them down.

6-01-2007 the Cubs begin to rise. They will never look back.

by Scott G F on Aug 8, 2007 10:15 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Luckily
we don't need legalities to use common sense in coming to our own conclusions. I don't doubt at all Bonds took steroids knowingly, and while legally I couldn't do anything to him for it, I certainly know how I feel about him as a player. My kids will be raised knowing it, too.
"Mine, mine, says the squirrel to the transformer, unclear on the capacities of electricity." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Aug 8, 2007 10:21 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

i would love to know
how many men jones has left on base this year. even though some of you have jumped on his wagon lately, you need to look at his year as a whole. he's had a FEW good weeks, but as a whole...he sucks. BAD. time to stop drinking the cool aid and dump this week hitting, no power,no defence centerfielder. lets see what pie has for the rest of the season, it's time for him to shit or get off the pot. having him tear up aaa does nothing anymore, it's time for the majors.
wheatfield mike down here in god's country

by wheatfield mike on Aug 8, 2007 10:49 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

RISP?
He has actually been pretty decent this year with RISP.

RISP: .267/.356/.360
RISP, 2 outs: .385/.448/.519

And since when does Jock Jones have no defense?  No arm?  Sure, but he actually has pretty good range.

BTW... Pie shows a better zone rating, but Jock shows a better OOZ (getting to balls outside of zone) than Pie does.  And both are better than Pagan in both categories.

by big_lowitzki on Aug 8, 2007 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Have you done the splits
Pre-Post ASG?

Just curious...

It is AUGUST, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Aug 8, 2007 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure...
Here you go, since 7/1/07

Jock, RISP: .333/.417/.400
Jock, RISP, 2 outs: .500/.550/.556

by big_lowitzki on Aug 8, 2007 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

'Common Sense'
although discussed in closing arguments, doesn't always  work in the courtroom. The law, and evidence should answer answer the final questions.

Did Bonds probably use steroids? Yeah, probably.
Has a court of law proven this? Maybe -- we don't know all the testimony from that past trial of his 'associates.'

We can use the circumstantial evidence, certainly.
But there he is -- in the line-up and playing, so as of now -- there's no evidence that seems to be enough to suspend/fine him.

If some evidence in the future changes what we now know -- Bonds is innocent until proven guilty.
I hope that is still our justice system.

I'm sure he probably juiced -- many players probably did, I think we could name at least one in a Cubs uniform, and my favorite test case is still Brett Boone. (I've chronicled his stats on these pages in past years, I won't do it now. But, go look him up...and see how his power output rises dramatically after leaving the hitter-friendly Qualcomm Stadium for the pitcher's paradise of Safeco Field)

But I don't know to a 100% certantity that Bonds, Sosa, Boone -- and, of course, let's throw in the possibility that McGwire used 'roids.

It appears we know Clay Hensley did -- he was suspended as a Padres minor leaguer for doing so.
It appears Rafael Palimero was an abuser, too.
The others I've mentioned -- no definitive proof...yet. (Unless I've missed a smoking gun somewhere that would lead a jury to convict....)

Bottom line is -- probably, the aforementioned players used something. In all but a few cases, we don't know for sure. We can read between the lines, we can go all "Bob Costas" on Bonds, if we choose. By the way, the comments from Costas really surprised me, for I think he did that only as a publicity stunt to draw viewers to his show, that most people don't even know is on the air. That behavior is very Jim Rome-ish, and I didn't expect that type of pandering from Costas.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 8, 2007 10:53 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

what's up
with all the Bonds love in San Diego???

by EliasTirade on Aug 8, 2007 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe...
Maybe the realize they are witnessing history, and that Bonds is one of the greatest players to ever play the game?

by big_lowitzki on Aug 8, 2007 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

the 2014 season
Can't come soon enough.  When A-Rod breaks the record (in a Cubs uni).

Guy can hit, sure, steroids or no.  Doesn't take away that from the fact that he's a huge jerk and terrible for the game of baseball.

by EliasTirade on Aug 8, 2007 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A-Rod?
Just curious...

How do we know that A-Rod doesn't/hasn't used anything?  Not saying he has, but why do we assume he hasn't?

You know Bonds has never tested positive for any steroid.  

by big_lowitzki on Aug 8, 2007 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wasn't professing 'love'
Just reality.

Perhaps distinct proof outside of "I thought it was flaxseed oil" will be revealed, there will irrefutable evidence of what he took, and then 'adjustments' can be made to the 'record.'

It's always possible, that in the future, more information comes to light. (If we believe Jose Canseco's allegations, half the players in MLB used...something. But -- they are allegations, and not proof.)

I'm not a fan of the guy by any stretch of the imagination. I care little about Barry Bonds. Giants fans are complete hypocrites when it comes to the guy. They feel he's done NOTHING wrong.

I say, probably SOMETHING is wrong, something went on during the 90's with many players, but it hasn't been proven beyond any shadow of doubt.

Physically, Bonds is 3x the man he once was. Was it all lifting? Probably not. I'll use Bret Boone as an example,  once again -- please, check his record. Suddenly, with his career in shambles in SD, he goes to Seattle and becomes a power-hitting infielder. His numbers were dimishing a little bit each year. Suddenly, he's in the slugger category with Sosa, Bonds, etc, etc. His great year leads to a tremendous contract. He has a few more great years, then his career -- literally -- returns to what it was in SD. He couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat. He abruptly retires.

How did this happen? Suddenly, this 'banjo' hitter becomes a HR machine in a pitcher's park???Canseco made an allegation, regarding Boone, in his book.  But there's no proof. I think Boone was juiced....but there is no proof. Unless Boone admits it, we'll never know.

If look you at the curve of Boone's statistics, it's astonishing. He becomes a mini-Barry for 3 years or so, at the tail of his career. That's not how the career of an MLB player should pan out. Especially one who's career had only been good-to-average prior to that.

So, please read my post again. "Love for Bonds in San Diego" just proves you didn't actually read it, if that's what you think I said -- or, you didn't understand it.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 8, 2007 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

MLB created a circus
and now, they have to deal with it.  I can't stand Bonds, and not because he may have taken steriods, it's because he is an A-1 jerk.  

Quite honestly, I think people would be shocked if there was a way, to determine who was using the stuff between 95-03, but that's only my opinion.  Hell, Palmeiro was my college teamate, and I thought he was a great guy, but it goes to show how these guys can get hung up in the competition side of this, and go down the wrong road.  There is no doubt in my mind, that Sosa, Palmeiro, McGuire and all the rest, hit several of their homeruns against pitchers who were also juicing.

Anyway, ain't nothing they can do about the past, even if they prove several of these guys were juicing.  MLB allowed this environment to exist, and they can only fix what happens in the future.  

Take a look at Gaylord Perry, do you think he was doing anything to make the ball do funny things?  Hell yea he was, and he has admitted it.  So were several other pitchers of that era.  Does MLB put an asterisk by Perry's records because he juiced the ball up?  I don't think so.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 8, 2007 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

sdsjm
I love your posts.
I wholeheartedly disagree with you regarding Costas.

Bob Costas has NO NEED to get viewers to his show. He has enough, PLUS, he has enough money to last the rest of his life.

When Jim Rome was struggling on ESPN 2, and wanting to be on the national scene...he did things to provoke people and create things that didn't exist.

Costas didn't do that.  He just gave an opinion.  An opinion that is fact.

And sure, we live in America, blah blah blah.  Innocent until proven guilty. Yippee.

Barry Bonds is a knave.  He was a HOF before he took roids, and risked it all on something so stupid.  Now, he probably faces death at an early age for his actions.

That's what will be funny.

I don't need Barry to be punished.

He's just going to die a lonely, painful death at his own hand.  That's enough for me.

"You're fired." - Dallas Green to Billy Connors while Billy was staying in the hospital.

by jdoolsiu on Aug 8, 2007 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's cool jdoolsiu
Thanks for the compliment, we don't always have to agree.

But, I'm in the media, I know how this stuff works. To be honest, it's not that Costas has money -- he still wants people to watch his show. And, since it's on HBO, the numbers (ratings) will be smaller if it was on the big 4 nets, or basic cable nets such as ESPN.  

Shows like The Sopranos and Six Feet Under are programs that bring ratings -- but still, for all the hype -- the Big 4 Broadcast nets will beat HBO/Showtime, etc in head-to-head battles everytime.

And, I'll wager that HBO subscribers aren't really there for sports....so, if Bob Costas can bring some awareness to his show, he does it. That's how TV works. Bonds didn't need to answer. He just sounded stupid in his reply, and gave the show more attention.

Rome's another story. He's a master of self-promotion. He was doing his best to get attention even back when he was in Santa Barbara. When he worked at XTRA/San Diego, he was the hype monster. After every show, he'd fax to all the local media..

"....as heard today on the Jim Rome show..''

But, you need an edge, something to stand out, so he created this little universe on radio, which still exists, and appeals to a young demographic. He still belittles another fine sportscaster in the San Diego market, a man I know, and is one of the hardest working individuals I've ever met. But, he has a goofy, kind of outdated style. Rome never lets up on the guy. And, what is worse -- nobody outside of San Diego/LA has any clue what he's talking about. He goes into this character, on the self-indulgent, petulant rant -- just to make fun of the guy. That's just -- wrong.

He's an egotistical punk, he and Matt Vasgergian.
(He, of the "go back to the Ozarks" when referring to Cardinals fans.) I know a lot of people here will find that funny. Anything goes on a blog. But on TV? How unprofessional. There are sportscasters in Bakersfield and Peoria that would love to be in Matty V's shoes, and I have a feeling they would be way more professional than he is.

You meet the same people on the way down the ladder that you do on the way up....and just being a professional, apparently is very hard for these 2 Southern California broadcasters.

And, you may be exactly right -- if these ex-players succumb to an early passing -- that might, unfortunately give us the proof we need.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 8, 2007 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pie's back
Felix Pie is being recalled and will be available for the game tonight according to Paul Sullivan.  No word on who was sent down.

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2007/08/here-comes-feli.html

"Dad gum right this games gonna be played under protest. . . I guarantee this is gonna be one protest that's upheld." --Hawk Harrelson, 6/24/07

by RynoHoF on Aug 8, 2007 11:00 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Interesting.
Wonder who will be sent back down?
I love this team!!!!!

by sue369 on Aug 8, 2007 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It has to be
either Pagan, Patterson or Cedeno.  I am guessing Patterson, since Cedeno going would leave them a tad light in the infield.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 8, 2007 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or Fontenot.
n/t
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 8, 2007 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pie
The article mentions that it will probably be either Cedeno or Patterson.  Since Patterson was just up and was originally a 2B, my guess would be Cedeno.
"Dad gum right this games gonna be played under protest. . . I guarantee this is gonna be one protest that's upheld." --Hawk Harrelson, 6/24/07

by RynoHoF on Aug 8, 2007 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

As little as Cedeno has done...
I don't see it being him.  We have no backup SS if Cedeno goes down.

I'd guess Patterson, Pagan, or Fontenot, based on recent performance and/or overlap of players.

by SouthernCub on Aug 8, 2007 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's the backup
third baseman as well as the starting second baseman and part-time right fielder.  He can't play every position.  What happens if the Cubs need their backup third baseman and shortstop on the field at the same time?

by cubsbak on Aug 8, 2007 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly...
Really, it should be an OF sent down.  Having 7 guys who can play the OF and 1 backup IF makes no sense.

by SouthernCub on Aug 8, 2007 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If the Cubs don't
have confidence that Cedeno can play in the major leagues they probably need to make a deal for a backup SS.  

by cubsbak on Aug 8, 2007 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We should've dealt Cedeno 2 years ago
And dealt Guzman 3 years ago
1-RUN GAMES = 15-18 | EXTRA INNINGS = 1-7 | HOME = 30-28 | updated on 8/7

by SackMan on Aug 8, 2007 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cedeno
I think players like Cedeno are the reason reason there's a first base coach.

He's there to remind Ronny to turn instead of running straight into right field.

I just want the Cubs to top the Bears NFC Title Game as my highlight of the year.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Aug 8, 2007 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

impatiently patient more Lou influence
Lou detests losing and losing can become a mental habit. My guess is that Ohman was the signal, he became unproductive in key situations as Eyre has earned his way back.

You can bet that the grapevine had it that Ohman had broadcast that he had made plans that were not inline with a player who should have been forcused on one thing, his job and winning ball games instead of family time. Regardless of the seemingly unempathetic connection to a family get together this is discipline.

Now for other marginal players where is the axe going to fall. Pagan has now become unproductive both defensively which is supposed to be his versatile strength and offensively. Are they going to move Jones to RF during Soriano's possible six week absence and move Floyd/Murton to LF and have Jones/DeRosa in RF and then have Pie in CF?

The other is the starting pitching, do they move Dempster to a starter's role now and move Marmol/Howry up to a closer's role with Wood seemingly showing some effectiveness? This would allow the Cubs to move Marquis or Marshall or Hill down or possibly spot them a bit of some rest through August along with Gallagher?

Lou is not going to sit pat and he is going to keep them focused, especially the role players.

Milw-09-24-98--Brown in for defense--bases loaded--flyball--HE DROPPED THE BALL!!!NO NO NO, cubs lose 8-7

by Ivy Walls on Aug 8, 2007 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Friggin' Cool!!!
Thanks for the good news! One thing about Lou, he doesn't stand still.  If he thinks he made a mistake, he rectifies it.  He doesn't waste a lot of time brooding.  Wouldn't it be interesting if he sent JJ back to the minors. :-)

by zevkalman on Aug 8, 2007 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Remember, you can't
do that with players (send them to the minors) who have a certain number of years of 'service time' in MLB. I don't know the exact amount of time, but it has to be at least 5 years. Perhaps somebody knows exactly what the requirements are.
(I'm not referring to minor league re-hab assignments, to be clear.)

Jones would have to be DFA, (possibly released) and the Cubs would be liable for the remaining year and a half on his contract. Even if they put him on waivers, to possibly be DFA'd -- if some team put in a claim on Jones, he'd be gone (of course, they could revoke the waiver on Jones, and keep him )-- but if they did nothing -- the Cubs would still be liable for his salary, and they'd get nothing in return.

Trades can be made using the waiver wire -- if you work out a deal with another team, he has to clear waivers, ie; no other team puts in a claim for Jones, let's say. Nobody puts in a claim, you can make the deal. Somebody else does -- probably the deal dies. The other team is trying to block the deal....

So complicated...

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 8, 2007 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm extremely tired right now
After attending last nights game, driving 3 hours afterwards, and showing up at work early this morning at 7am.  I wouldn't complain so much if last night turned out differently... but, it was still fun.

Thanks to trharr for the ticket.

Tinker to Evers to Chance!

by sanantonecub on Aug 8, 2007 11:11 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Perspective
Soriano is not missed in the lineup because of the offense or defense he's been providing for the past 10 days.  He would have struck out on the same suite of pitches that got DLee, because he's swinging the bat the same way lately - wildly.

However, I see this as another DLee-is-disable-so-let's-swoon episode.  Whether Sori has actually been providing any function lately, the players THINK they should be tanking without him.  Not consciously, but subconsciously.  "Geez, I hope I don't strike out because Soriano isn't here to pick me up".  

And what's with Kendall dropping every throw from the outfield?

The last good Cub to wear #21 was Al Spangler.

by psennett on Aug 8, 2007 11:15 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Perspective
I agree with Al that we have to keep this losing streak in perspective. Not to rain on his rosy parade, but here are some items worth mentioning that contradict the positive perspective of Al's thread.

First, Tuesday night's starter, Sean Marshall, couldn't pitch out of the sixth inning. It was the eighth time in 13 games that Cubs starters have gone 5 1/3 innings or less. Tht's worrisome and taxes the bullpen at the worst possible moment. We my get a tired starting rotation and a tired bullpen, both at the same time, if this trend continues.

Second, Al is completely underestimating the impact Soriano's absence is having on this team. One, there's the mental aspect. Many players are pressing, probably because they erroneously think
that each one has to replace Soriano's offensive production. They get frustrated in return.

Third, it's obvious that without Soriano's bat in the lineup, opposing pitchers approach this team differently. Soriano's bat benefits hitters around him in the lineup even when Soriano does nothing. He protects those hitters. Now, pitchers are letting Theriot get his hits when he can because they can pitch around everybody else and strike them out. There's no fear of a big inning. And the latter part of the lineup is not getting much to hit, either, because Soriano is not on deck or in the hole.

Fourth, everyone in the league now knows that the Cubs can't hit left-handed pitchers. Expect a steady diet of left-handed opponents, especially if the Cubs make the playoffs.

I think we need to take all this into account if we are to put these losses in perspective. It's a fact that we're drifting away in the Wild Card race. That's a door to the playoffs that we don't want closed in our faces. We're still in the division race thanks to the ineptitude of the rest of the teams in the division. After all, this is the "Comedy Central". But one more week of what we are witnessing will have its toll, I'm afraid. So, Mr. Hendry, take notice. Make the best trade for a bat that you can get and make it soon.

by Fraggin Judge on Aug 8, 2007 11:22 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

In my opinion
this team needed help in the outfield BEFORE Soriano got hurt. Now the outfield has 5 guys who wouldn't be starting on most contenders teams. They are all 4th/5th outfielder types at this point in their careers (some, like Floyd, used to be good, and some, Like Murton could be good someday).

I don't think you can contend with that kind of outfield, particularly when you have little power in your middle infield and no offensive production from catcher unless you have a pretty dominant pitching staff. Something like what the 05 Sox had. This pitching staff has lots of question marks after the first two starters, and a bullpen that is starting to show its overuse.

I think a lot of people, myself included, were overjoyed to see the Cubs in first place for a brief period, but also took it with a grain of salt in that they made their move against an exceedingly weak part of the schedule, and had to have everything go their way to make it happen.

Maybe everyone will find their stroke again, 3-5 starters will throw 6-7 innings, the bullpen will shore up, and they will get out of the division. But it will take that and more to get into the world series. Anything can happen, but I'd be happier if we were talking about probabilities rather than possibilities this late in the season, and with this much money spent, and with so many backloaded contracts clouding the future.

by jazzypete on Aug 8, 2007 11:29 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Great news on Pie...
Send down Pagan until he shows you a .900 OPS in AAA along with the ability to count outs, and in the meantime play Pie in CF batting 7th EVERY DAY.  Look at how Milwaukee handled Braun for guidance...called him up after he mastered AAA and batted him #3 SINCE DAY ONE.  He's still learning defense but I'll take that as a liability any day of the week.  While they're at it they need to fast-track Soto and DFA Koyie Hill ASAP.

by Jerry Mumphrey on Aug 8, 2007 11:29 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Uhhh
On pace for 50 errors doesn't offset all you do at the plate, even if you're Ryan Braun.  He'll be at a corner OF spot soon enough.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. -- Lee Constantine Elia, 1983.

by krummy12 on Aug 8, 2007 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Patterson
should be the one to go back. Initially I thought that the only reason they brought him up instead of Pie was that there was a deal in the works for another outfielder, and they didn't want to have to send Felix right back down again.

I really want to give Patterson a chance. But, I have a feeling if he keeps whiffing on high, 85 mph cheese, like his big bro, the boo birds aren't going to be very patient.

"Whoever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" - Frank Chance

by STLCubFan on Aug 8, 2007 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Let There Be Light!"
Just to change the topic, today is the 19th anniversary of the attempt to play the first night game at Wrigley.  Sadly, the game with the Phillies was washed out (in the 4th IIRC), so the real first night game was on August 9th, 1988 vs. the Mets.  It is hard to forget this day as 1) I was really excited about the event itself and 2) I won a silver coin commemorating the first night game on FNN/Score's TV call-in sports trivia game show "Time Out for Trivia".  My question was "What was the original name for Wrigley Field?" (I assume everyone here knows the answer to that).  I had a chance to win an entertainment center with "The Big Score" question following that, but I botched that one.

by Qixotl on Aug 8, 2007 11:44 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Do NOT count on Hendry
to Add ANY money to the payroll.

Imo, he will do absolutely nothing - cannot now sign Z to an extension - cannot add meaningful players...

He is a lame duck GM with his hands tied from way up.

Those of you who are frustrated, and say we should pick up this guy or that guy...

unless they play for next to nothing for the team, I would be astounded now if Hendry is able to do much of anything.

It is just so "Cub", that finally when the team is in a Division chase, is the same year the Tribune has sold the Cubs and no extra salary will be taken on....

It is AUGUST, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Aug 8, 2007 11:49 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

That's what I am worried about.
The evidence so far (lack of doing anything that incurs a financial penalty) points out that you might be right.  Too bad we don't have a front office like the Braves do.  If we could have spent a little bit of money for players like Dye, Griffey, etc., things might have been different the past few days.

by zevkalman on Aug 8, 2007 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Frankly, IMHO
I believe under Jim Hendry's watch, there has been a real mis-diagnosis of talent in the minor leagues, and the players he has acquired too late in their careers.

How someone had not given Theriot a chance at playing SS in their Org., when there hasn't been one for years, is troubling.

This is just ONE example of many, in which I could fill a whole page.

- sigh -

It is AUGUST, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Aug 8, 2007 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Theriot Scouting Report
One of the TV Feeds, I think it was Houston, was discussing this and the color guy said he was reading one of the weekly scouting magazines (sorry, don't remember the name) and apparently now the scouting report on Theriot is that he can indeed play ss.  Apparently, scouting reports had earlier come to the conclusion that he couldn't play ss.  So maybe the accepted thinking last year or the year before had Theriot a poor defensive ss.  Maybe the Cubs believed it also.  Anyway, kudos to Sweet Lou for bringing up lots of guys from Iowa to give them a chance, and play them in various positions.  Also, I really think Lou will get rid of non-performing players who think that it's their right to make three million dollars a year and not work hard or think smart when playing baseball.

by zevkalman on Aug 8, 2007 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You hit on one of Hendry's glaring
weaknesses.  He has never been strong in valuing skills that fall outside of your typical 5-tool rating scale.  He has also failed to value defense at certain positions, and the importance of having OBP at the top of your lineup.

Hendry has been more than productive with some of his trades and FA signings (this is his strength) he just struggles to recogize the value of mixing the right pieces.  

Lou took him to school a bit this year, and showed everybody, the value of identifying the right players, for the right positions.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 8, 2007 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.
Lou has been very influential on player personnel, imo.

If you remember the "meeting" - when was it - in May?

For all we know Lou said there better be some changes or I'm walkin'!

It is AUGUST, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Aug 8, 2007 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Lou was frank
he probably said he can see why the team has underachieved with who they had catching for so long.  He was probably a little more diplomatic about it, but I am sure he basically told Hendry he couldn't win with Barrett as his catcher.

Mangers philosophies are usually entrenched during their playing days.  Lou's best years were as a Yankee, when they had those very good teams in the late 70's.  He played for Billy Martin, who was known as one of the best field managers the game has ever seen.  Sure, the dude was a little nuts, but his feel for the game was undebatable.  Those teams had a solid rock for a cather (Munson), and a good mix of scrappy guys - Randolph and Rivers along with one real power guy - Jackson, and a host of clutch hitters that didn't hit a lot of homers - Piniella, Chambliss, Munson and Nettles.  Piniella himself, was one of the most feared clutch hitters on that club, and I think he likes a nice mix of skills, like that club had.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Aug 8, 2007 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sweet Lou does come from an old school
of baseball.

And Lou has won 3-4 games this year for us.

Great post by the way.

by MarlaSinger on Aug 8, 2007 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe tonight will be
a repeat of 2003 when Big Z just about single handedly lifted us to a big win in Houston with his pitching & with a HR as well .... Hope it plays out something like that !!  Anyone else remember that game?

by Basman on Aug 8, 2007 11:57 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Buehler ? Buehler?
Everybody out to lunch ?   :)

by Basman on Aug 8, 2007 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was at that game
It was awesome.

by jshipp on Aug 8, 2007 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Geez...I hope
he doesn't have to do this again. PLEASE!
It is AUGUST, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Aug 8, 2007 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why would it be bad?
Why would it be bad if Zambrano hit a big homerun?

Who cares WHO HITS IT?

Although I wonder if we'd be better off sometimes with Wood and Zambrano playing left and right field than some of the group we trot out there.  Remember Wood can hit too.

I just want the Cubs to top the Bears NFC Title Game as my highlight of the year.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Aug 8, 2007 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

maybe
Wood should have been converted to a position player a couple years ago!
You may run like mays but you hit like $#!%

by cubsirishkillme on Aug 8, 2007 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wonder
If something happened to Zambrano that he could still play but not pitch would they send him to Iowa for a year like ANkiel?
I just want the Cubs to top the Bears NFC Title Game as my highlight of the year.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Aug 8, 2007 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I kind of wonder
I kind of wonder how Wood and Zambrano would do if they devoted more time to hitting practice and hit more often.
I just want the Cubs to top the Bears NFC Title Game as my highlight of the year.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Aug 8, 2007 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll never forget that game
A Left-handed JACK!
"In all the categories that you pay the most attention to, except the loss column, we're doing very well" - Jim Hendry

by Jayo525 on Aug 8, 2007 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who's next?
According to Paul Sullivan:
"the Iowa shuttle probably isn't slowing down any time soon. Left-hander Carmen Pignatiello (2.78 ERA) and catcher Geovany Soto (.348 average) could be next in line to get the call. The Cubs are down to one left-handed reliever now that Will Ohman has been demoted to Iowa, and back-up catcher Koyie Hill is hitting only .153."

Hell, tell Soto to get on the plane with Felix, Hill is expendable.    

by Itchy on Aug 8, 2007 1:01 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Vowels
The more vowels in the line-up, the better. Yes.

by park on Aug 8, 2007 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes Sir
We shall dazzle them with our mastery of the alphabet.

And maybe even hit and pitch a bit better.

But for sure our vocabulary would be exquisite .

by hawkeyenation on Aug 8, 2007 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

study
Someone should do a study to see if there is a correlation between vowels on a roster and winning percentage. Somehow it just feels like there would be. the rangers just got a boost getting saltalamacchia, if that's how you spell it.

by park on Aug 8, 2007 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

only a one-vowel gain there...
because they gave up Teixeira to get Saltalamacchia.

by SouthernCub on Aug 8, 2007 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's A Vowel Movement!
I guess this town needs an enema.
There's always next year.

by BJ Simpson on Aug 8, 2007 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Am I way out of the loop
For not knowing much about Carmen Pignatiello is? Wasn't he involved in the Donaghy scandal? BTW Anyone hear who's being sent down for Felix?
"In all the categories that you pay the most attention to, except the loss column, we're doing very well" - Jim Hendry

by Jayo525 on Aug 8, 2007 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like Sue's idea above
one game thread for "doom and gloom" and one side would put it and one game thread for "sunshine and rainbows" as the opposing side would put it...then we could all be happy (or happily miserable as the case may be)
You may run like mays but you hit like $#!%

by cubsirishkillme on Aug 8, 2007 1:30 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

That would be excellent -
not nearly so controversial!

POOP!

It is AUGUST, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Aug 8, 2007 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey
quit stealing my line. ;-)
I love this team!!!!!

by sue369 on Aug 8, 2007 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have a question
If the Cubs had scored 20 runs in the first 2 games after Soriano got hurt would everyone say we're going to score 10 runs a game without him?

That wouldn't be any dumber than saying we're going to only score 2 a game with him after 2 games.

I just want the Cubs to top the Bears NFC Title Game as my highlight of the year.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Aug 8, 2007 1:45 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed mostly...
the only caveat is that only scoring 2 runs per game is a plausible outcome of losing Soriano, whereas scoring twice as many runs as previously expected would not.  So it's slightly less ridiculous, but still ridiculous.

The Cubs have averaged 4.6 runs per game this year, despite having Lee, Ramirez, and Soriano all miss time this year.  Soriano is unlikely to make a difference of more than 1 run per game over a replacement player, if even that much.  So to expect less than 3.5 runs per game on average (over a reasonable sample size, of course) is stretching it, in my opinion.

by SouthernCub on Aug 8, 2007 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The corrolary to "small sample size..."
...is "confirmation bias." Just because a small sample size validates your assumptions, doesn't make it any more legitimate.
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 8, 2007 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right...
I wasn't saying 2 runs per game is reasonable.  I'm just that it's slightly less UNreasonable than expecting a 100% increase in runs.  Both are unreasonable, though.

by SouthernCub on Aug 8, 2007 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

if all players played in a vacuum
then yes...statistically speaking Soriano's loss shouldn't be a huge problem.

However baseball is at least very much mental.  therefore the players knowing that soriano is out causes them to press and consequently to struggle.

As I said yesterday...mental toughness is what this team really needs now.

You may run like mays but you hit like $#!%

by cubsirishkillme on Aug 8, 2007 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We should all take up a collection
so Will Ohman's parents can fly to Des Moines to see their grandkids.  I feel really bad about that.

by cubsbak on Aug 8, 2007 1:52 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

haha
classic
Big Z on Cuban: "Plus, I can be signed by him. You know, I know he has the money for me. Hopefully he can buy the Cubs."

by kylejo on Aug 8, 2007 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kendall
is there any chance that he comes back next year after his contract expires? He has been a decent catcher...
Now that he is back, play Matt Murton!!

by Chanman25 on Aug 8, 2007 2:03 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I would be in favor of it
Of course...not at anywhere near his current contract!
You may run like mays but you hit like $#!%

by cubsirishkillme on Aug 8, 2007 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not likely...
I'd guess the Cubs give Soto a chance to be the everyday catcher.  But who knows?

by SouthernCub on Aug 8, 2007 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rocks Ahead 2-0
Spilborghs homers in 2nd inning.

Rocks pushed a run across in the first inning.

Tony Graffanino was taken out in the 2nd inning for some reason....

Those Rockies are tough.

by zevkalman on Aug 8, 2007 2:38 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Rocks 4, Brewers 0
Gallardo has over 50 pitches and it is only the 2nd inning...Holliday triples in two more runs and Helton is up.

by zevkalman on Aug 8, 2007 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rocks 5, Brewers 0
Helton comes through.  50 pitches by the second inning, and the Brewers bullpen is already suffering from overwork...

by zevkalman on Aug 8, 2007 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rocks 6, Brewers 0
Brewer catcher had a "Barrett" and tagged the runner sliding into home without the ball.

by zevkalman on Aug 8, 2007 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Al started
a diary for this game. Everyone is in the diary discussing the game.
I love this team!!!!!

by sue369 on Aug 8, 2007 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ha ha!
Thanks...didn't know that :-)

by zevkalman on Aug 8, 2007 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No problem.
Didn't know if you had seen it or not.
I love this team!!!!!

by sue369 on Aug 8, 2007 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope Kendall comes back
With Blanco questionable and the mental demands of a big league catcher, Lou's unlikely to hand the reigns over to an unproven rookie without an experienced backup on hand.
"I never take a game home with me. I leave it in some bar along the way." -Bob Lemon, from Sweet Lou

by section229beer on Aug 8, 2007 2:40 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Rockies up 4-0
Yeah! Keep it up Rockies, then just go flat tomorrow. ;)
There are 3 things in my life which I really love: God, family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit.

by cubsfan4life on Aug 8, 2007 2:45 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

8-0
still hitting in the bottom of 2.
"Whoever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" - Frank Chance

by STLCubFan on Aug 8, 2007 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have a feeling
that we are witnessing the beginning of the end for this year.  I truly hope I'm wrong, but I have trouble convincing myself that this line-up can consistently do much better than it has over the past 10 days or so.  Go ahead and flame if you must, but we do not have an offense that is consistent enough to win without power, and there's been no sign that the power that's sorely been lacking is going to return.  And Soriano's injury has nothing to do with this.  He'd been sucking wind for weeks before he went down.  I'd say our $17 million lead off hitter has been worth about have that this year.  
Did we really put Jose Macias on the field? Really???

by ksreed on Aug 8, 2007 2:46 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm iffy...
My thoughts are that our record this season has been pretty poor against other "playoff" teams all season:

Mets: 2-5
Phillies: 3-3
AZ: 1-2
Padres: 2-4
Braves: 3-3

While I am pretty sure (I Hope) we'll gut it out and make the playoffs I am just not sure how far we'll go once we get there.

But then again... look at the Cards last year. Really were not the best teams in baseball and they won it.

by Willgly on Aug 8, 2007 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rocks 8, Brewers 0
Hawpe gets a 2-run homer.

by zevkalman on Aug 8, 2007 2:50 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

End of 2nd Inning, Rocks ahead 8-0
Gallardo has 56 pitches thrown.  Who else on the Brewers pitching staff didn't throw last night?  Their bullpen must be exhausted.  Poor Brewers :-)

by zevkalman on Aug 8, 2007 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good news/bad news
Rocks up 9-0, 7 extra base hits out of 11 total in three innings. That's the good news. Bad news is it's a bad time to be visiting for a 4 game set, especially w/ our offense struggling.

by billybuck on Aug 8, 2007 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Reportedly Pagan to the DL...
...with a strained oblique.
FREE CARMEN PIGNATIELLO!

by cwyers on Aug 8, 2007 2:51 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Who hasn't been?
Did we really put Jose Macias on the field? Really???

by ksreed on Aug 8, 2007 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I bet it was sit-ups
You know, because he wanted to about 50 or so, and got stuck counting somewhere between two and three.
"Whoever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" - Frank Chance

by STLCubFan on Aug 8, 2007 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL!
I love this team!!!!!

by sue369 on Aug 8, 2007 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Very good!
very, very good LOL!
It is AUGUST, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Aug 8, 2007 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If that's true
I wonder who will be in the outfield against left handers.

by cubsbak on Aug 8, 2007 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

At this point...
We might as well put a lefty up there because our righties have not faired well against lefties, so it almost doesnt matter.

by HIGGY on Aug 8, 2007 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It would have to be TWO of the following
Floyd/Patterson/Jones/Pie.  Take your pick.

by cubsbak on Aug 8, 2007 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd go with...
CF - Pie
LF - Murton
RF - Floyd (i hesitate with him but - you know i got no explanation)

by HIGGY on Aug 8, 2007 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd agree with that
but it's a pretty lousy outfield, particularly against left handed pitching.  

by cubsbak on Aug 8, 2007 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Um, the lineup the other night with all righties
didn't exactly set the world on fire.

by MiniAndretti on Aug 8, 2007 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rockies
dumping all over Gallardo. It's ours for the taking tonight. Maybe this will light a fire under some of these guys.

by bloomerang on Aug 8, 2007 3:19 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Ohman got his idea from
Anibal Sanchez.  $10 bucks says if the union hadn't filed a grievance on behalf of Sanchez recently for the same thing (getting sent down while claiming to be injured) Ohman never would have thought of it and wouldn't be claiming to be hurt now.  I don't know, but it seems to me that Ohman is a pretty short-sighted, self-centered individual.  As far as pitching he is what he is, a serviceable lefty, nothing more, nothing special.  As far as his role on the team and in the clubhouse I'm starting to wonder.  Maybe we'd be better off without him.
I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey

by pageian on Aug 8, 2007 3:21 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Ohman's about a week away from 5 yrs service time
If they leave him in Iowa the rest of the season and do not bring him up in September, then I believe that he may still have a chance of being optioned down to Iowa to start the 2008 season.

Now if he's at AAA, do they have to put him through waivers to trade him to another team's AAA ballclub??  Maybe he's trumpeting this injury because he doesn't want to end up someplace like Washington or Tampa.

by Invalid User on Aug 8, 2007 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Maybe we'd be better off without him."
Ya think?
It is AUGUST, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Aug 8, 2007 3:28 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I am glad when the BREW
loses.

But honestly, I feel much more exhilirated when the Cubs win.

Anyone have pitching matchups in Denver?

It is AUGUST, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Aug 8, 2007 3:30 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Me too
Right now our offense is in a slump and we lost 3 games in a row and I could care less about the Brewers. In this crappy division we just need to take care of ourselves and everything will be alright.

Having said the above, a brewers loss before a Cubs game would somewhat lighten the pressure on our players to play for a MUST Win.

by cubsnlinux on Aug 8, 2007 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well for what it is worth
there is nothing like Coors Field to make players with warning track power feel like all-stars.

Who knows this could be the trip we need.

by MarlaSinger on Aug 8, 2007 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Since today's getaway day
why don't the Cubs play during the daytime.  Isn't it a little unfair?  The Cubs will be at a huge disadvantage tomorrow in Colorado.

by cubsbak on Aug 8, 2007 3:33 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

WHAT?!?
This happens all the time.

by MarlaSinger on Aug 8, 2007 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought the schedule makers
typically try to avoid this type of situation and schedule day games on getaway day when a team has to go on the road for a series the next day.  I believe the Brewers/Rockies are playing a day game right now.

by cubsbak on Aug 8, 2007 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And they said they try to avoit rain outs
at the beginning of the season also.

We all know how well the accomplished that this year.

by MarlaSinger on Aug 8, 2007 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

how likely/reasonable would it be...
for the cubs to go after david wells?

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070808&content_id=2137291&vkey=news_mlb&fext=. jsp&c_id=mlb

they have other needs, of course, but whaddya think?

by pc45 on Aug 8, 2007 3:48 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

yeah we could use him instead of Marquis
that way we can gave 4 lefties in the rotation.

by MarlaSinger on Aug 8, 2007 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can you imagine Wells
standing next to the bean poles that are Hill and Marshall?

by MiniAndretti on Aug 8, 2007 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

or...
move hill/marshall into the pen to get another lefty in there... surely they'd do better than ohman.

by pc45 on Aug 8, 2007 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Isn't Gallagher a LHP?
BTW, here are Wells stats.  Ick.

Select
up to 5
players

Picks left         Player         TEAM         W         L         ERA         G         GS         CG         SHO         SV         SVO         IP         H         R         ER         HR         HBP         BB         SO    

3.     D Wells
    SD     5     8     5.54     22     22     0     0     0     0     118.2     156     74     73     17     3     33     63

by MiniAndretti on Aug 8, 2007 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

wells.
Do we WANT David Wells? 5-8? 5.54 ERA?

I think we need an upgrade for Marquis but is Wells that upgrade.

I happen to think players play their best when they actaully WANT to be where they're playing. Seems to me that for the most part if Wells isn't wearing a Yankees jersey he doesn't really want to pitch well... he was horrible for th white sox back in 01

by Willgly on Aug 8, 2007 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Remember
Remember when the Sox pulled a fast one on the Jays because of Sirotka and we all assumed they got off scot free?

Their punishment was having to keep Wells.

I just want the Cubs to top the Bears NFC Title Game as my highlight of the year.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Aug 8, 2007 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

k...
sounds like nobody likes the idea.... just thought i'd put it out there.

by pc45 on Aug 8, 2007 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
That fat ass is d-o-n-e. Got it? F-i-n-i-s-h-e-d.

Please believe me.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 8, 2007 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Slow pitch softball at Coors today
Rocks now up 15-2 in the 4th. They have 11 extra base hits so they should still be tired by tomorrow night from all the running they're doing today.

by billybuck on Aug 8, 2007 3:49 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow
Apparently the Brewers dropped the soap in the shower -- 16-2.
"And heeeere cooome the pretzels!"

by NightPutting on Aug 8, 2007 3:52 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

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