Stop Making Sense
This makes absolutely NO sense.
A year ago, an absolutely horrid Cub team went into Houston and swept the Astros, shutting them out in two of the three games.
This year, a (supposedly) much better Cub team went into Houston and got swept, scoring only five runs in three games and repeatedly squandered opportunities, leaving 28 men on base in the series, and last night was the worst of the three, an 8-2 loss to Houston with the ballclub's best pitcher, Carlos Zambrano, on the mound, someone who usually eats Astros for lunch; instead, he had his worst start since the fight-with-Barrett day on June 1. (I have nothing more to say about last night's game -- it was boring, one-sided, and not well played by the Cubs, who left thirteen men on base. Z breaking a bat over his knee again was fun to watch, but ultimately meaningless.)
What sense does this make? It makes even less sense when you look at the standings this morning and find the Cubs still only a game behind the Brewers for first place, tied in the loss column, and despite the Cardinals' win over the Padres, still five games ahead of St. Louis -- and maybe we should thank the Cardinals this morning, because that win kept the Cubs within a decent distance of the wild-card-leading Padres, still only three games back.
So is this a glass-half-full day? Or a glass-rapidly-emptying-out day? I'm scratching my head because I can't figure it out either. Some of you are hot to acquire Wily Mo Pena from Boston. Good heavens, why? He's hitting .219/.293/.391 with 5 HR in 151 AB. Seems to me we already have a large bucket full of outfielders who can do that, plus Pena has a bit of a reputation as a headcase.
The Cubs have also put in a waiver claim on A's outfielder Shannon Stewart. While Stewart's not as good as he was three or four years ago, he is still hitting .298/.360/.399, draws a few walks, and plays a decent outfield. If it doesn't cost too much to get him, it's worth a flyer, I think.
Otherwise the Cubs simply have to get back to playing the way they were up to the Philadelphia series at home last week. The talent and ability is there. Consider that the Dodgers were, two weeks ago, twelve games over .500 and two games ahead in the West. Now, having just been swept and shut out three straight times by the Reds, they sit with a record half a game worse than the Cubs, five games behind the Diamondbacks, and behind the Cubs in the wild-card race.
This is just a reminder that this is how pennant races go -- remember? It's been three years since the Cubs have even had a race like this to consider in August, so maybe you need a bit of a refresher. Teams sometimes hit slides like the Cubs have had, and still come back and win. Last year's Cardinals, who just barely won the Central and wound up winning the whole thing, had three separate eight-game losing streaks (and another of seven just before the season ended), yet hung on to win anyway.
There's plenty of time to right this ship. But it had better start tonight in Denver. Incidentally, Lou Piniella may be reading this site:
Good. A lot of us here suggested hitting Kendall second after Alfonso Soriano went down. Let's start generating some runs!
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Ramirez
Yes, it would.
Absolutes
Whats that saying?
Cubs have been pretty lucky the past few days with the how everything has played out.
We all knew something like this was going to happen eventually before the end of the year. lets be thankful it was not the same time as the 2004 collapse.
This team worked hard for 2 months getting to where they are, they are a little drained, if we can split with the Colorado i am confident that the off day on the 13th will help the Cubs and we will be backt o playing better baseball.
Yup.
I'd rather be lucky than good?"---
Yup. That's pretty much the philosophy of the apologists.
As I have said before - they don't recognize things like 85-win teams winning a World Series for the shocking event that it is. It is, instead, their recognized philosophy of how winning a World Series is supposed to be done in Chicago.
Only Cubs fans talk about payroll like it's their personal checkbook, trading unproven prospects like it's heresy, and revel in seasons where they aren't mathematically eliminated on August 31st like it's time for celebration.
Which is why folks like us who'd rather be good than lucky are often out-of-place on boards like BCB. You don't need to be good, just less terrible enough to RELY a series of miracles to get the job done. That's how you do it, yeah!
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Aug 9, 2007 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Outstanding
I am not saying...
its funny
but at the same time you're essentially wanting the team to be good rather than lucky, which i assume means not hoping that an 85 win team wins the world series and instead only settle for a consistent 90+ game winner, correct me if i'm wrong?
I don't disagree with that rational
However, this team won 66 games last year and to "expect" a team to go from 66 wins to 90+ win contenders is really pretty naive. Wouldn't you say? I mean its probably happened less than 5 times in the history of the game to have a 25+ win turnaround in one season...
So in one hand you're ridiculing those "overt optimists" but on the other hand you're expecting a 90 win 2007 season, which seems like an extremely "optimistic" expectation given the team won 66 games last season
So what do you want us to do? The ones rooting for the team to still be in contention aren't actively rooting against a consistent 90 game winner, we're just being fans and trying to root on what we have.
Plenty of us get frustrated with whats going on, the problem is you're trying to make a clear cut distinction between "apologists" and "realists" and it's not black and white
there's plenty of realists that realize this team is flawed, but they're still going to root for this team no matter what, because that's what fans do
There are some fans that are staunch in their utter optimism for this team and quite a few on the other end of the spectrum that are annoyingly pessimistic at every turn, but the vast majority sits somewhere in the middle.
And the majority of those people are just rooting for their team and being a fan
so lay off them for trying to keep their heads up and rooting for this team to win
does the Cardinals World Series last year mean any less than the dominant Yankee teams World Series? Maybe in terms of a historical perspective, but certainly not to all the Cardinal fans last year that got to experience that "magical" postseason run
so while I agree with your premise that the goal "should be" to have the good fortune to root for a consistent 90 game winning contender, we as fans have little control over that
and we as fans for the most part are just trying to be fans....
and lastly, when fans groan about salaries its because they realize that the team is operating within a budget. No one cares personally how much they pay people, they care about it in context to a payroll which we know is limited. That's a really important distinction that you seem to be missing... if we know our payroll is going to settle in around 100 million this year than some people are going to question spending 10+ Million dollars on one player
its not because its "their money", its because they understand the payroll management is working with and poor management of that payroll does effect something a fan has invested in even if its not money
it impacts their time, their love, and the passion they put into each season
and thats why fans get critical of salaries, not because it impacts their own finances but because it has a direct impact on the success of something they're passionate about
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 9, 2007 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions
thank you
but i seem to offend/upset most people for some reason or another
glad to see some positive feedback on something i post :)
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 9, 2007 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions
That was very well said!
Outstanding.
by Fraggin Judge on Aug 9, 2007 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Colitis?
I just don't know how a team goes from playing so well together to coming out of the gate the last two nights playing like they were already down by 10 runs. Maybe it's the 2006-ish lineup we've thrown out there the last few nights, maybe it's the consecutive days they've played in a row. I don't know what it is, but it's rather odd and confusing. There's just no...fire. Besides Theriot it doesn't seem like any player is out there playing like they are in the middle of a division race, a race which the other team is trying so hard to just hand them.
I guess the silver lining of all this is that we have played arguably three of our most frustrating games and still remain just one game back in the division. Hopefully the thin air and, what I hope for more, a new lineup will spark this team again so at the very least they can play as though they care.
by hawkeyenation on Aug 9, 2007 9:11 AM CDT reply actions
Here's one reason
Very true
Hopefully these few days off not only get his body healthy but his mind back in the game. We need his clutch hits down the stretch.
by hawkeyenation on Aug 9, 2007 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions
re: Colitis?
Thank you Thank you
And I was too tired to be creative.
by hawkeyenation on Aug 9, 2007 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions
Gathering themselves
by californiachicagoan on Aug 9, 2007 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Any word yet
I read
by hawkeyenation on Aug 9, 2007 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Perhaps now
Or...
by hawkeyenation on Aug 9, 2007 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions
He is a lying sack
You suck Oh-Man!
by TheEman on Aug 9, 2007 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Actually, yes.
Ohman, who first reported his shoulder was bothering him after being informed the club had optioned him to Iowa on Tuesday, was diagnosed with irritation of the AC joint after an MRI on Wednesday.
It's a condition that typically requires no more than a few days off to subside.
Ohman's revelation that he had been pitching despite a "barking" shoulder didn't sit well with some Cubs officials, and it caught manager Lou Piniella by surprise.
"I don't pitch or play people that have something wrong physically," Piniella said.
Can they send him to Daytona instead
Daytona's a crap hole
by lostinthevines on Aug 9, 2007 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Plus the fact...
I'm sure the players are told to tell the coaches when they don't feel right, and when they don't, it ultimately hurts the team, because like Lou said, he would not play someone who was injured instead of playing someone is not 100% healthy.
I totally blame Ohman for everything that has happened to him because he was too stubborn or proud to let the coaches know of any injuries.
the players ultimately hurt themselves (no pun intended) when they do this sort of stupid stuff!
by CubFanSince1970 on Aug 9, 2007 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Is Hill back to being Z's personal catcher?
Let's Go to Soto
Did anybody else catch Brenly slobbering on the "man-crush" for the defensive abilities of Hill? It was rather nauseating. Hill may be above average defensively, but to call him the best defensive catcher is a stretch.
BB
Gah.
Good grief.
Now I think I'll take up drinking.
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Aug 9, 2007 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
To add insult to injury...
I'm not clear - what happened to Ramirez?
Should return this weekend
by hawkeyenation on Aug 9, 2007 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm guessing...
Makes sense
I hope Lou does something like a Patterson, Pie and Derosa outfield tonight just for giggles. Switch it up a bit. Of course, this is impossible if Ward is activated prior to the game, which is a good possibility.
by hawkeyenation on Aug 9, 2007 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree
Theriot 3b
Fontenot 2b
Dero rf
Ward 1b
Kendall c
Patterson lf
Pie cf
Cedeno ss
by cubbyblue137 on Aug 9, 2007 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions
How about
Fontenot 2b
Murton rf
Ward 1b
Kendall c
Patterson lf
Pie cf
Cedeno ss
Dero looks pretty tired too and could use a break, considering all the shuffling he's done around the field. Plus we would get a preview of the Cubs outfield for the next ten (at least!) years, if Lou could convince Soriano to go back to 2B.
re: How about
But I'd disagree with the notion of putting Theriot at third base. In the one or two times I've seen him play there, he's never looked particularly comfortable. And he certainly doesn't have the arm for it.
And though DeRosa could certainly use a break from time to time, I don't think he looks tired. He's been hitting fairly well (2 for 5 last night) and he plays a mean third base. Plus, the team still needs some veteran leadership on the field.
I'm willing to support an all-youngster outfield, though. As stated in my diary the other day, I'm done with Cliff Floyd. Done. His two walks last night were nice -- I can't bring myself to criticize a walk. But they also brought to light the same problem: The team needs Floyd to drive in runs, not just get on base.
I'm on the fence about Jones. He did go 2 for 4 last night. I just wish the hell Pie would adapt to major league pitching better. If he could at least get on base at a decent clip, I'd drop JJ in a second. Pie's speed and disruptive presence on the basepaths are par excellence.
And, yeah, maybe DLee needs a break. It would be nice if Ward comes back swinging, though he's a big step down in terms of defense.
Oh, and one last thing, the idea of Soriano going back to second base: NOT GONNA HAPPEN.
Continuuing with the sarcasm
I wasn't being sarcastic
by hawkeyenation on Aug 9, 2007 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions
or this?
Kendall c
Murton lf
Lee 1b
DeRosa 3b
Jones rf
Fontenot 2b
Pie cf
Lee
by californiachicagoan on Aug 9, 2007 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Ward is in Colorado.
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/503274,CST-SPT-csep09.article
by Fraggin Judge on Aug 9, 2007 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions
I've given up on trying to use logic
by mike @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Aug 9, 2007 9:24 AM CDT reply actions
when they are playing well
by mike @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Aug 9, 2007 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions
except for 2004, have the Cubs ever
Ramirez was hurt in 2004
And to answer to your question, no.
He was healthy all of last year........
by PriorandAramisfan23 on Aug 9, 2007 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Eh
by cubbyblue137 on Aug 9, 2007 9:31 AM CDT reply actions
Big news from last night was:
The real news is Aramis RamÃrez's wrist injury. Man, when it rains it pours in Cubs Land. Despite Lou's optimism for the masses, the team is taking this injury seriously because they sent RamÃrez to Chicago to be checked by the team doctors. This team cannot absorb the absence of another big bat from the lineup for a prolonged period of time. I hope RamÃrez can come back healthy on Friday.
me too...
not to mention the lack of run production..
Teams will
by cubbyblue137 on Aug 9, 2007 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Don't forget
by hawkeyenation on Aug 9, 2007 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Jones
That seems about right
Also, I hope he told Uncle Cliff to patent the look he has while looking completely clueless at the plate. Seems a combination of constipation and complete shock that starting your swing when the ball is almost to the plate doesn't give you a chance to make any contact.
by hawkeyenation on Aug 9, 2007 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Or
by hawkeyenation on Aug 9, 2007 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions
I hope he comes back tonight.......
by PriorandAramisfan23 on Aug 9, 2007 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Unavailable.
by Fraggin Judge on Aug 9, 2007 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Hendry swears..
So nothing to worry about, folks!
Just sit back and hope for the best - take comfort in miracle stories of teams of prior years; and instead of recognizing them as the miracles they were, tout them as a winning philosophy. Hope to be good enough to barely get in, then expect a series of miracles. That's how you do it!
And if doing nothing costs the Cubs a VERY rare playoff opportunity - hey! It was still the right thing to do.
Remember, we have once again been told that all of the solutions for 2007 are already in the organization. A World Series championship is just around the corner. And no help is needed to do it in 2007 - remember.
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Aug 9, 2007 9:51 AM CDT reply actions
re: Hendry swears..
I'm not a huge fan of Jim Hendry. But I just didn't see a lot of viable options out there.
Whoa -
Do you not think ANY GM in their right mind would not have a Carlos Zambrano signed by now if he was able to navigate as he had in the past?
Please.
It is our "luck" as fans this year that the club is being sold in the middle of a playoff hunt.
I will be very shocked indeed, if anything much changes other than has-beens added.
by TheEman on Aug 9, 2007 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions
If that's true...
I'm find if he's handcuffed, just as long as they let us know that.
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Aug 9, 2007 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, I would not
Things change, and he can be a real politician when it comes to being pinned down for an answer.
Look - I'm sure John McD and Hendry are nice guys with some integrity - but this thing now, again from what I am seeing - or lack of seeing - is just over their heads.
We hopefully will get the real story after the team changes hands, imo.
by TheEman on Aug 9, 2007 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Reply:
I would have acquired a quality player at the trade deadline for the strecth run. Absent that, I would agressively seek waiver trades, considering the Cubs' position on waivers, to try and make this team better for a run at the playoffs.
I would have looked, and continued now to look for the best deal, setting a limit of no MORE than (and preferably not as much as) two of my best five prospects and two of my #6-10 prospects in exchange for a player who, based on history and ability, would make a difference for the Cubs in the final months. Where I differ with some folks here is that I actually am willing to give up something to get something. Many folks here want a free lunch, or they are content just fasting.
Now, if the price was much higher than that for a single player, I would not consider it unless said player had more than two months left on his contract. But if the price is five of our top ten prospects, I'm a monkey's uncle.
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Aug 9, 2007 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions
re: Reply:
You're being pretty vague here.
As I've said many times, this isn't as easy as clicking the mouse a couple of times and making a deal in fantasy ball. You're dealing with real people, both the players and opposing GMs, big contracts, and other factors.
So let's hear it, Not rose colored. Be specific.
Specifics.
But let me premise that by saying that if my above scenario ever took hold (3 top ten propects, or possibly four), that Hendry would be answering the phone, not dialing it.
Many names have already been mentioned: Griffey, Dunn, Dye (least of my faves, but still HR material), possibly Hunter or even Crawford.
But nobody can tell me that several new names wouldn't suddenly start to appear from credible sources if it became known that the Cubs were serious about being buyers, and weren't just looking for a free lunch. Set a fair threshold of what you're willing to trade, like the above scenario, and you'll be surprised who's available. Ask the Astros about Randy Johnson and Carlos Beltran.
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Aug 9, 2007 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions
well..
so i dont understand your theory of uncovering hidden trade gems
and the carl crawford idea is one that was NEVER reported by anyone in the media
it was a pipe dream brought on by the speculation of uninformed fans and uninformed sportswrites that he'd be available...
and if he was somehow available it would require 2-4 top PITCHING prospects
since we have... well none really
that would be an issue
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 9, 2007 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Ok, well...
Griffey? Dunn? Every media report from around the trade deadline says that the Reds decided they weren't for sale; the Cubs certainly tried if the rumor mill was to be believed. What, was Hendry supposed to kidnap Wayne Krivsky's daughter and force him to deal away Dunn? I don't understand here.
And the fact that nobody can tell you that the Cubs could have made other names available has less to do with situational reality and more to do with your stubbornness. It's really not my problem.
Wouldn't trade Marmol for Dye.
Somehow I refuse to believe that there wasn't any other player in the entirety of the Cubs' minor league system that the Sox would have taken for Dye.
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Aug 9, 2007 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions
so
and on the other hand, you ridicule Hendry for not getting a move done
doesnt that seem silly?
If we dont know what options he had how can we suggest he did a poor job by not making a trade
for all we know he could've negotiated hundreds of proposals that were all rejected that would've netted a big bat without giving up a lot
or
he could've had a couple boxes of junior mints and done nothing, ignored all phone calls
we really have no firm idea of what went on
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 9, 2007 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Where is the future...
The Cubs organization is trying to build a team that wins for years not just one (ie signing, Lee, Soriano, Ramirez for lengthy contracts).
Not for the future.
No, it's not. It backloaded the contracts so that the payroll will boom in two years, giving a clear indication that they will be trading some of those salaries away at that time.
And yes, most of those aforementioned players would be rentals for the stretch run - that's the point. Right now, we have a few two-year rentals as it is.
And to the prior comment on shopping, Hendry made it pretty damn clear at every occasion that he wasn't shopping, but that he would entertain a free lunch. Why would anyone take him as a serious buyer starting from that very public stance? Would you counter that with a Dunn for Patterson and Veal offer? I wouldn't bother.
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Aug 9, 2007 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions
re: Not for the future.
I do hope you're right on this...
I would really, truly hate to think he was willingly doing nothing for the stretch run again.
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Aug 9, 2007 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Unless...
All we can go off of is the contracts that were signed and the length, other than that everything else is speculation.
Who are out 2 year rental players that we already have?
re: Specifics.
And I believe Hunter stated publicly he would not approve a trade to the Cubs because he didn't want to play in front of Wrigley's brick outfield wall. I'm not familiar with Crawford's situation, but I'm guessing another poster can address his lack of feasibility.
I've never gotten the impression that Hendry has been unreasonable about who he would or wouldn't give up for a trade. For instance, I heard the Sox asked for Marmol and Hendry hung up the phone -- a reaction I fully support.
And it's unclear if they're actually available...
In a perfect world, I'd love to get Griffey or Dye to play RF. But if the asking price is way too high, it's just not reasonable to do it.
Here's what I would do
Do you not think that Hendry tried? Your post basically said you would try real hard to make a deal and you would continue to try real hard to make a deal now.
I think Hendry proved in the offseason when he was signing Ted Lilly from a hospital bed that he tries real hard all the time.
I think "Not Rose Colored"...
Now, to question "Not Rose Colored" and others who believe like him because he doesn't mention names of players to acquire, is, IMHO, too much. You don't know who is available until you try to acquire him and until you engage in a negotiation you don't know what it would take to acquire them either. I would exonerate Hendry based on that were it not for the fact that he said he would not acquire anybody else by the trade deadline because he was satisfied with the team he had. For whatever reason he sais that, including lack of money or authority, Hendry was mistaken.
Hendry's mistake aside, I do agree that other than a good way to spend time arguing, nothing is gained by throwing out names of unavailable players, like Griffey and the like. It's not realistic to think that those players would be available now. I only ask that even at this late stage, Hendry gets more aggressive and get the best player he can acquire at a reasonable price. And on that, I also agree with "Not Rose Colored" that it will cost us prospects because if you want to get something you also have to give up something. Talk of Pie or others as untouchables is misguided, IMHO.
by Fraggin Judge on Aug 9, 2007 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions
So was nearly every other MLB team stupid too ?
and the Red Sox. The Braves trades a lot to get very good slightly long term rental. The Red Sox traded some presumably
good prospects for a strugling set up guy. Several teams in DESPERATE need of pitching ( Indians ( closer) TIgers ( ditto)
Mets, Braves, Brewers ( starters) did nothing to address the needs. Several teams in need of hitters ( Padres, Dodgers,
Mariners etc) did nothing there.
NO ONE WAS MAKING BIG DEALS because most everything available was overpriced CRAP. The Cubs made a serious effort to get Ryan Church who might have helped but it fell through.
None of this was about money. It was about no available players.
I am so glad you know more than Hendry and the other GM's about who was availale and how the Cubs could have gotten them. I am stunned you have not gotten a GMs job yet
by jessica on Aug 9, 2007 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Solutions may or may not be in-house...
None.
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Aug 9, 2007 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions
If your argument concludes with
by hawkeyenation on Aug 9, 2007 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions
I've yet to see a name that would help...
I don't have a problem at all with bringing in help from outside. My only stipulation is that it has to actually HELP, rather than just be more of the same but with a different name.
I can agree with that.
I see little that either could add to IMPROVE the team. And I'm not much for adding headcases unless their talent is a little more overwhleming than Pena's, anyway.
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Aug 9, 2007 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions
What moves were available?
Nope.
Nope, wouldn't "mortage the future," and already said so.
But I would be willing to let some prospects go for a player who we could credibly deduce would make the team better.
Again, if one trade would effectively "mortgage the future," they never had a future to begin with.
"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."
by The Jade Scorpion on Aug 9, 2007 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Soriano...
Any Opinions?
I was waiting for this to come up....
In a perfect world we should have just signed both guys....traded Jones and NOT sign Floyd. But that is a perfect world which we do not live in.
I believe this topic is very ironic.
The version Hendry signed is faster and skinnier, but the fielding and base running appear very similar.
Hendry signed fewer HR's, but got some stolen bases. Oh, and some hamstring issues and a torn quad. I guess Lee is never moving that fast on the base paths to pull or tear anything.
Regardless, here's hoping Soriano comes back healthy and productive. The Cubs need him.
Wait a second.
by Fraggin Judge on Aug 9, 2007 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Soriano tweaked his hamstring
"always hits well at Wrigley" theory
Also called the Jeff Blauser Theory
With Scott Eyre on the team
by hawkeyenation on Aug 9, 2007 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions
Soriano was theoretically a better fit...
Obviously, it hasn't worked out right. Soriano couldn't handle CF, so it screwed up the OF (since we had nothing but LF). And he hasn't stayed healthy. And he hasn't hit for as much power as hoped.
Lets look at it this way
Disagree.
by Fraggin Judge on Aug 9, 2007 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions
From my perspective
How about this
Never a real option
re: Never a real option
Eman
Why do so many here think those same players can't get it together and go on another solid run without external help? It's not like a bunch of guys were playing well over their heads during the good stretch, excepting maybe Fontenot? TheRiot was slumping, Sori, Lee, ARam, Z - they were all playing as expected. Our pitching was ok but not great during that stretch. Seriously, they've hit a dip in the road. It may prove to fatally throw them into a ditch, but we won't really know that for another 2-3 weeks, maybe longer. Just take the fact that the Brewers can't seem to win either as a good sign.
Infield In...
Just wondering...
No, I still don't.
It's a good idea
No idea...
BUT... if the infield is back, the run scores. It is pretty simple.
Not sure what you don't understand about it.
by big_lowitzki on Aug 9, 2007 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Why is this?
Sorry, I don't buy it. Plus, when the ball gets through, not only does the run score, but you have another runner on base.
Distance?
Why do you think runners score with the infield back and not when the infield is in?
And yes... you do run the risk of a ball getting through and having another runner on. But that is the nature of baseball. It is just like an intentional walk. You may avoid facing a tough hitter, but you also place another runner on base.
by big_lowitzki on Aug 9, 2007 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
I see your point, I guess.
I'd guess this is hard to calculate...
It would be interesting to see the frequency with which this works. There are a number of old-school theories whose merits people have debated in recent years (bunting, base stealing, etc). It would not surprise me at all if the pulling the infield in thing is another one of those counterproductive decisions managers make simply because that's the way it's always been done.
It's all about the odds
I don't know how often it works on ground balls, but the bottom line is this; if you don't pull the infield in, the SS and 2nd baseman have virtually no shot at cutting the runner down on an average hit ground ball. If you pull them in, you give yourself a chance.
Was it Baylor..?
Last night
Exactly.
by Fraggin Judge on Aug 9, 2007 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions
It was a contact
Oh right...
re: It was a contact
Obviously he was going on contact
Exactly.
by Fraggin Judge on Aug 9, 2007 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Sure...
But regardless... the reason why DeRosa shouldn't have gone was because the infield was in.
In other words - the infield in kept the run from scoring (at least in that at-bat) whether DeRosa ran or not.
by big_lowitzki on Aug 9, 2007 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions
NL Central division race reminds me of a joke...
First guy says "Oh no, it sounds like a bear. We're goners for sure."
Second guy pokes his head out of the tent for a quick look and ducks back in. "Yep, it's a bear alright. Big one, too" and then he calmly starts to put on his shoes.
"What are you doing?" first guy wails. "You can't outrun a bear!"
Second guy says "Don't have to. Just have to outrun you..."
haha
by holycow07 on Aug 9, 2007 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed on...
Worth it? Declining?
He has his best numbers in 3 years. No guarantees he doesn't decline in the near future, but you can say that about anyone over 30. He doesn't have an arm apparently, so in that respect he is JJ like. He also had plantar fascitis which made him most of 06 and half of 04. However, he is not being asked to fill a long-term or even short-term-full-time role, so I wuoldnt be too worried about that.
by californiachicagoan on Aug 9, 2007 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Stewart =
Again, I'd much rather have the other one...
by TheEman on Aug 9, 2007 10:38 AM CDT reply actions
LOL
Stewart = right handed Jaque Jones
by hawkeyenation on Aug 9, 2007 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions
No.
Agreed that Stewart was a better player five years ago. But he's still a decent RH-hitting OF option.
Devil's advocate...
For 3 years now, Stewart has been a sub-.760 OPS guy (sub .720 in 2005 and 2006). I wouldn't say he's an upgrade over what we have in house.
Many on this board have clearly not been excited about Murton. I don't see that Stewart adds substantially more than Murton.
Addendum...
Stewart
Stewart has been in a playoff race and won before. Murton has not.
Stewart won that playoff race with Jaque Jones. I think getting that pair together would be a good thing. Murton has never been in a playoff race.
Stewart is signed for one year so if he doesn't work out these next two months he's gone. He won't hamper Murton's production next year.
by IllinoisCubs on Aug 9, 2007 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions
just for accuracy's sake
in non-pinch hitting situations he's hitting .277
and in extremely small samples:
post all star break .959 OPS (20 ABs)
in August 1.158 OPS (16 ABs)
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 9, 2007 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't forget this little nugget...
Just for accuracy's sake.
right
as opposed to the 35 AB sample you're looking at
but yes he has struggled mightily with RISP this season
of course these things tend to fluctuate wildly from year to year.... which just so happens to be a result of smaller sample sizes
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 9, 2007 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions
And in 2005
i noted both those things
and
2) that Murton's recent success was in a very small sample size
i dont know what more you're looking for....
i've been trying to judge Murton on his entire career and you said before that you wanted to judge him on just this year
now when he starts hitting, you want to judge him on other statistics that have more variability in them like RISP
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 9, 2007 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions
No
And making statements like "now when he starts hitting" is total hypocrisy if you're gonna lecture others on small sample sizes.
a .760+ OPS
sucks?
really?
look i dont know what to say with you anymore. When Murton plays he hits at a reasonable clip and his defense is good enough to make him an adequate OF
an adequate OF on this team is valuable since we have maybe... 1 of them right now???
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 9, 2007 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Huh?
your post said
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 9, 2007 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions
You do know he
i know
and he starts complaining about how he's not hitting 30+ HRs
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 9, 2007 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions
And I'm looking forward
Career vs this year...
And Stewart had OPS of under .720 in 2005 and 2006. Thus, I don't see Stewart getting any better, while I can see Murton bouncing back to previous performance. And in any case, past performance can suggest that Stewart is not an upgrade over Murton.
I would wish nothing more
I'd rather gamble on that...
And just because he's never faced the situation doesn't mean he can't perform in it. You have to face a pennant race at some point, right? If you wait till next year, you have the same unanswered questions.
if by n/t
SS doesn't strike out (10.97% of his ABs). In fact, the only people who strike out less than SS on the Cubs now is Theriot (9.6%). In fact a 1-2 of Theriot-Stewart might be pretty good.
SS also has hit righties well thru his career.
By the way, he has been playing in a pitchers park too, and would be moving to the friendly confines.
by californiachicagoan on Aug 9, 2007 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions
The biggest question
The 100 points of OPS matters little when, much like Jones, he's not technically a centerfielder. Would he be better than getting Pena? Sure. But that's not saying much and neither one upgrades our team that much.
by hawkeyenation on Aug 9, 2007 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Also
by hawkeyenation on Aug 9, 2007 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions
The Cubs brass
I'm all for transparency, and would love it as a fan, but I don't expect it. Of all things that occur to a major league team, we probably hear about or are let in on maybe 5% of it. Take ARam's wrist, for example, or the fiasco with The Employee over the years, or Wood, or [Name Player Here].
Agreed, Higgy.
The only
I think we're gonna have to pull the plug
Love Hill's defense... but lord oh mighty. .155. Jeez. Kendall's not hitting either, and he doesn't throw ANYONE out. But, Kendall's not going anywhere for the remainder of the year.
We can dump Hill... and if an injury hits us st Catcher later, Blanco might be ready to join the team.
Kendall's actually been hitting...
I thought the knock
But then, I could be remembering entirely wrong too...
that's incorrect
and he's actually not THIS GOOD of a hitter
i've seen the reports suggest a .270 hitter with 10-15 HR's
think Ramon Hernandez type...
which would be quite nice
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 9, 2007 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Hill's defense?
He is, at best, average defensively. But is far from good.
And you need to be GREAT defensively to justify playing time with his pathetic offensive production.
by big_lowitzki on Aug 9, 2007 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions
BTW - Al -
Very nice.
by TheEman on Aug 9, 2007 11:33 AM CDT reply actions
Other appropriate Talking Heads' song titles:
- Road to Nowhere
- Puzzlin' Evidence
- Tentative Decisions
- The Facts of Life
I was thinking...
by TheEman on Aug 9, 2007 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
The way the Cubs have been playing...
by John Q Freejazz on Aug 9, 2007 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions
WSCR reporting
Hugh Hefner could not be reached for comment.
by TheEman on Aug 9, 2007 11:48 AM CDT reply actions
Hef is busy with his twins...
HA!
by TheEman on Aug 9, 2007 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions
re: He's got three g/fs.
Another lineup change
Any word on Ward? Man we miss his bat right now.
Pagan was so bad this month, maybe he was playing thru injury.
Pitch hitting is a really hard thing to adjust to. Mostly it is vets that do it well. I think Pie and Patterson might not have much success in that role. At the same time, we are in the thick of a playoff race, and now is not the time to be hurting out offensive output by starting these guys while they learn how to hit in the majors. They should be D and baserunning subs as much as possible until we can get Ward, Pagan, Soriano back. Of course, we need to actually be winning or at least in games late for them to be used that way, which hasn't happened lately.
So hopefully, we will be seeing a lot more of them soon.
by californiachicagoan on Aug 9, 2007 12:07 PM CDT reply actions
this weekend
by Willgly on Aug 9, 2007 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions
re: Another lineup change
He was. He's on the DL with collitis now.
Will he help?
by Willgly on Aug 9, 2007 12:08 PM CDT reply actions
And...
by ExNorthsider on Aug 9, 2007 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions
WSCR now reporting...
Things are not looking good.
by Rogue 52 on Aug 9, 2007 12:13 PM CDT reply actions
Wow.
OR: get Braun from the Brew Crew to play 3rd base. Theriot is good at backing up plays :-)
Fontenot?
.213/.290/.236
He is not a guy that I want replacing A-Ram if A-Ram is down for significant time.
by big_lowitzki on Aug 9, 2007 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I wonder if...
If ARam is hurt, Soriano is hurt and Lee can't hit for power, they better hope for some killer defense and starting pitching.
by ExNorthsider on Aug 9, 2007 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions
yes
by ExNorthsider on Aug 9, 2007 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions
If that's true
A-ROD!!!
by lostinthevines on Aug 9, 2007 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Awww yeah!! Pull the trigger, Jimbo!
Let DeRosa play 3rd....
Keep trying some young guys in LF, until one starts to hit: Murton, Patterson, Fox.
re: Let DeRosa play 3rd....
The fly in the ointment there is Cedeno
by lostinthevines on Aug 9, 2007 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions
shhhh....
Murton's last month:
7-20 with a .950 OPS
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 9, 2007 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Sadly.... Murton is ACTUALLY a better LF
well...
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 9, 2007 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Stats LIE
not having stats
"Stats don't tell you how many friggin balls he's dropped out of his glove"
1. this stat is called an error, it is referred to in the box score with the letter E
"or how friggin long it takes him to chase down a ball in the corner"
2. the link above shows a stat that measures the range in which a player is able to successfully cover in the OF
"or how many times he loops it to the cutoff man"
3. Well outfield assists divided by opportunities i suppose would give you an idea of this
"or how many times he sits down on 3rd base instead of scoring"
4. base running metrics are also available
as for how many times he actually just sits down on the base, you're right we might not be able to find that
and i thought we were talking about defense, not base-running?
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 9, 2007 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions
I've been listening to 670 AM and
by cubsfan4life on Aug 9, 2007 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Besides our hitting has anyone noticed that...
When Piniella
Actually, I wondered about that too
You gotta think that Lou knows what he's doing.
re: OT - how you insert a hyperlink into text?
Thanks - never knew that was there
by lostinthevines on Aug 9, 2007 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions
So, what is Aramis' status??
a great Talking Heads album, Al
Aubrey Huff?
by TheEman on Aug 9, 2007 1:09 PM CDT reply actions
Too bad...
And the Phillies....
I am starting to Panic.
Pitching versus hitting
Capuano hasn't recorded a win since May, the team hasn't won a game he's started in the same amount of time.
Suppan pitched deep into October (something to worry about with Marquis for sure), and has been terrible as of late.
Gallardo, the one bright spot, was blown out yesterday. He will probably get back on track, but he isn't bullet proof.
Claudio Vargas has been equally horrid and they might move him to the bullpen to have Parra, who has about 30 IP under his belt, to pitch in the rotation.
Dave Bush has shown talent, but he is sporting a 5.03 ERA and usually only lasts until the 6th inning.
Sheets is suppose to be out until at least mid-September now.
The Cubs have problems too, but when your pitching options are 3 medicore at best veteran pitchers, 1 crappy veteran pitcher and 2 decent to good rookie pitchers are your potential pitchers, it won't be impossible to catch that even if Ramirez goes on the DL and we don't get Soriano back till mid-September ourselves. I worry about Marquis' arm, but if Zambrano, Lilly, Marquis, Hill, and Marshall are light years ahead of what Milwaukee is throwing out there every day.
If you made a team...
with the Cubs hitting and the Brewers starting pitching, well, you'd have the Tampa Bay Devil Rays.
by eamuscatuli1881 on Aug 9, 2007 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Wh-wh-wh-WHAT?!?
Aubrey Huff
by TheEman on Aug 9, 2007 1:29 PM CDT reply actions
Well..
He's on the Orioles. They're always willing to take out our trash.
Russell B.? Blech...
DeRo is way better than this.
by TheEman on Aug 9, 2007 1:33 PM CDT reply actions
Hey Al - Stoney confirms your suggestion
Can take the BB, hits deep in the count, understands the game.
by TheEman on Aug 9, 2007 1:39 PM CDT reply actions
I wish he'd start doing those things, then
by lostinthevines on Aug 9, 2007 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Lineup
SS Theriot
C Kendall
1B Lee
3B DeRosa
LF Murton
CF Jones
RF Floyd
2B Patterson/Fontenot
SP Lilly/Marquis/Hill/Marshall
Let's hope the Rockies scored all of their runs yesterday... It was enough for a four game series after all.
Scratch Cliff
by hawkeyenation on Aug 9, 2007 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Good idea
Probably not
by hawkeyenation on Aug 9, 2007 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Why
would EPat platoon with Fontenot? They're both lefties. I didn't think he could play the infield anymore, anyways.
EPat will platoon with Murton.
by salparadise23 on Aug 9, 2007 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions
That could be
e-pat in the outfield
They moved E-Pat to LF, cause
Pie had better..
Exactly
by hawkeyenation on Aug 9, 2007 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions
again...
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding?groupId=9&sortColumn=zoneRating&sortOrder=true& amp; amp;split=83&qualified=1&season=2006&seasonType=2
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 9, 2007 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Again
by hawkeyenation on Aug 9, 2007 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Define "not good"
by frustratedfan on Aug 9, 2007 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Murton is not an everyday MLB LF!
Thank You!
Period!
Here are a few facts:
In 2006 Murton was 4th among NL LF in Range Factor,
He was second in Zone Rating.
He was 4th in Fielding Percentage.
He was tied for second (even with fewer innings than many of the others) in Double Plays caused by the Left Fielder.
I understand that Murton must have kicked your dog or something, but this near pathological hatred that a super minority of vocal Cub fans have for Murton is perverse. (Or maybe you get some kind of gratification out of starting arguments and being a jerk -- sort of like the loser in school who is always pulling the fire alarm -- and then everyone is shocked when he takes a gun to school and kills his teacher...)
by frustratedfan on Aug 9, 2007 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions
wow, that's kind of a stretch isn't it?
I'd use the B-team today
Lilly can hold his own on the mound and our opposing pitcher doesn't seem like too much of a threat.
We give everyone who doesn't get a day off, a rest and then play them Friday-Sunday.
Having 20 straight days of games is killing us and we can't expect to play the best we can without a day off.
I hope
by hawkeyenation on Aug 9, 2007 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions
of course
by cubsirishkillme on Aug 9, 2007 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Slap a Mohawk on him
by hawkeyenation on Aug 9, 2007 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Watch what you say:
Neither does Woody Williams
by lostinthevines on Aug 9, 2007 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Man, with that kinda jinx,
Ney
by hawkeyenation on Aug 9, 2007 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions
You heard it here first
Uh Oh
by hawkeyenation on Aug 9, 2007 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, the Bears play on Saturday
I wonder how Rex will do against the Texans? :-)
lies and blasphemy!
If it is, then there's hendry's skape goats...nevermind the fat that we have resorted to the likes of cedeno, pagan, Fontenot, etc. etc. etc.
not saying these guiys haven't don esome good (well except cedeno) but going into the year these were esentially our options
by cubsirishkillme on Aug 9, 2007 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Hey SouthsideCub...
SS doesnt want to come?
And to whoever said they prefer Theriot in the 2 hole. Why?!?! He does everything you want a leadoff guy to do. He takes pitches, gets on, steals bags, goes 1st to 3rd etc. I mean if you have Jose Reyes on your team, then Ryan is a fine #2, but he is a good leadoff guy.
My idea of a #2 puts the ball in play, doesnt strike out, moves the runner, sacrifices in close games, needs the protection of a big #3 behind him. That ain't the best use for Ryan to me.
I hate to beat on this drum, because I have been a fan/hater of SS, but that sounds like SS to me. Actually, Kendall of the past few years (and since the ASB) fits that too.
by californiachicagoan on Aug 9, 2007 2:26 PM CDT reply actions
I see your point
The SS not being thrilled to come here thing had to do with an article printed where he pretty much shrugged his shoulders about coming here. Of course, we have to take it with a grain of salt, as you can't simply sell out your current team and say "I'd love to go there."
by hawkeyenation on Aug 9, 2007 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh my god
by park on Aug 9, 2007 2:27 PM CDT reply actions
The first hit
by eamuscatuli1881 on Aug 9, 2007 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions
3B
Cabrera? Yeah right.
Garrett Atkins? Never pass thru waivers, and then we would have to trade the farm for him.
Melvin Mora? No trade clause, loves Baltimore, old with 2 more years on contract.
Troy Glaus? Pretty much just a DH at this point, right?
Ty Wigginton - UGH! Hindsight is 20/02, but he woulda been the guy.
Ryan Zimmerman - Too young/cheap to get thru waivers.
Looking at guys who havent played a lot of 3rd this year.
Jeff Keppinger? - Who? CIN. Young/cheap, no waivy.
Hank Blalock - Nice option here, but hasnt come off the 60 day DL for his illness yet.
Iwamura - Cheap, no waivey, not a slugger either.
Not looking too pretty. I think you gotta just play DeRosa.
by californiachicagoan on Aug 9, 2007 2:45 PM CDT reply actions
ARod!
FYI - Tyler Colvin
He is slumping...
Not super encouraging.
by TheEman on Aug 9, 2007 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions
very often
the more concerning feature is he's never posted a particularly good EYE (K or BB Rates) at the lower levels
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 9, 2007 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Curious
Add Soto and Gallagher (with Murton in RF, which isn't great but bear with me) and you basically are running the AAA squad out there against major league teams. It might be a long month at this rate. Ramirez and Soriano better come back, with a vengeance.
saw=say
you know
phillips
top 10 in all of baseball at his position
if you were the Reds would you give him up?
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 9, 2007 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions
i didnt know
Like I said
I would love to go after Brandon Phillips
Does anyone else fear the inevitable?
It's like a fairy tale
And then I wake up and realize it's one of my idiotic fantasies again.
A week ago
I think this team is pretty burnt right now. The combination of August, emotional letdown of finally catching the Brewers for a couple days, and 20 games in a row will do that to you.
At least include Shannon Stewart
After years of steroid use
But you're right, the Shannon with the natural boobs is definitely a wonderful fantasy!!!!!!
re: Does anyone else fear the inevitable?
And just where
the folks
And honestly, no, I don't think he'd be worse than Jones or Floyd in right.
Possible poll?
by Fraggin Judge on Aug 9, 2007 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions
FYI
by Tangled Up In Blue on Aug 9, 2007 3:57 PM CDT reply actions

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