Hey, Z! Anytime You'd Like To Show Up, That'd Be Fine With Us

by Al Yellon on Sep 3, 2007 8:27 PM CDT in Chicago Cubs Recaps

Oh, man (and sure, that could apply to Will Ohman's appearance in this game, as well as just being an expression), was this one a mess. The Cubs got blown out by the Dodgers 11-3 today, and I know you all want to hear what I have to say about the ... well, "performance" in quotes is about the best I can do ... appearance today of Carlos Zambrano (I couldn't even bear to read the game thread comments, for fear they might burn a hole in my laptop screen).

But first, let me all let you know that we were witness to a major league record today (and no, Chuck, not a negative record against the Cubs).

Taiwan native Chin-Lung Hu took the field in the 8th inning at shortstop (and for some unfathomable reason, Grady Little didn't double-switch him when he brought in Scott Proctor to pitch, so Hu didn't get to bat) ... his second major league appearance. Hu has broken the major league record for the shortest last name. There has never before been a major league player with a two-letter last name.

This also brought forth a large number of really horrible "Hu's On Short, Not On First" jokes from our assembled little band, and trust me, you don't want to hear them. It was about the only thing we could do to have any sort of amusement after the Dodgers scored ten runs from the fourth through the sixth innings, breaking open what had been a close game that the Cubs actually led 2-1 (hard to believe now, right?), and when things looked pretty good after Alfonso Soriano led off the game with a home run on the second pitch that Esteban Loaiza threw in a Dodger uniform.

That, and watching the runs pile up on the scoreboard for the Pirates (against the Cardinals) and the Astros (against the Brewers); both teams lost (there was a very large cheer that went up when the Astros' four-run eighth inning was posted, and again when the 9-7 final in favor of Houston was posted). Consider this: on a day when the Cubs looked positively awful, so did their division competitors. The Cardinals gave up as many runs as the Cubs to a team not nearly as good, and didn't score. The Brewers blew a three-run lead in the eighth inning.

So a day has gone off the calendar and the lead is maintained. You can't ask for more than that on a day when yesterday's hero, Derrek Lee, bounced into two rally-killing double plays. The Cubs did have baserunners -- thirteen of them, through ten hits and three walks -- but three DP's (including Craig Monroe's in the 9th with the bases loaded, when it really didn't matter, anyway), killed most of the scoring opportunities. Only eight men were left on base.

One of them wasn't Carlos Zambrano, who had singled leading off the third, and when Soriano followed with a double, ran through a stop sign (I was afraid he might even knock 3B coach Mike Quade over, he was barrelling around third so fast) and was easily tagged out.

This sort of thing seems to unhinge Z -- he lost it in the top of the fourth, walking three and giving up two hits, and the three-run carnage in the fourth could have been worse if Henry Blanco hadn't thrown Jeff Kent out trying to steal second.

It got worse in the fourth -- after two more walks and two more hits, Z was yanked in favor of Will Ohman, and that's where I think he may have lost the support of so many people who want him to succeed so badly. Z was jawing at some people behind the dugout who were giving him grief, and that's just plain wrong. If you're a professional athlete, you have to understand that even as much as we fans may love you, you've got to perform, or you risk getting booed, even in your home park.

Just sit down, Z, and reflect on your performance of the day -- which, until the fourth inning, was actually pretty good -- two hits, one run, and four strikeouts. Instead he wound up with his worst outing of the season, and the first time he's allowed eight runs (earned or not) in a single game since June 22, 2005 vs. Milwaukee. (Today and that 2005 game are the only two times in Z's career that he has been charged with eight earned runs in a single start.)

There have been some suggestions that Z needs to have a turn skipped, and I think that may have some merit. Today was the sixth straight poor outing from Z (excluding the three rained-out innings vs. the Cardinals on August 19), and with Steve Trachsel now on the roster, the Cubs could easily skip a turn of Z's, or push him back a few days. Someone needs to sit down and talk to him, calm him down, I'm not even sure what, but there's clearly something wrong with him, and I can't even tell whether it's physical, mechanical, psychological or all of the above.

Speaking of Trachsel, I spotted someone wearing a 1997-vintage (could tell because it had that year's Jackie Robinson patch on the sleeve) Trachsel road jersey, with his old number 46. It had to be a game-worn uniform, because who would have bought a replica of that one, in that year?

There were a couple of bright spots today. One of them wasn't Sean Gallagher, who got hit pretty hard in his two innings of work; but Scott Eyre and Michael Wuertz both threw hitless frames, combining for five strikeouts, although by then Hu and some of the other Dodger bench players were in the game. Lou also got a chance to give some of his regulars a few innings off in a game that, oddly, didn't make me feel as bad as a tough one-run loss would have. Maybe it was because I knew the Cardinals and Brewers had both lost well before the Cub game was over (the Brewer game slogged on forever, three hours and fifty minutes), and thus even with the blowout, no ground was lost. All the Cubs can do is pick up the pieces tomorrow with Trachsel. (I've been warned to bring a pillow tomorrow night, with Trachsel's penchant for working v...e...r...y ... s....l....o....w....l....y ...) .....

Oh! Sorry! Nodded off there for a moment. Keep the faith. Try to stay awake tomorrow, and I'll bet the Cubs will come out looking like winners again.

One final note: I have four extra bleacher tickets (price: $30, face value) for tomorrow night's game. Anyone who wants one, or more, email me using the link on the right sidebar.

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Tomorrow's another day

And, as you said, everybody lost. Just keep dropping that big blue number on the right, and all will be good.

"Don't worry, Joey. We'll go next year. They're in the World Series all the time" ---My grandfather to my sick father, October 10, 1945

by flyingdonut on Sep 3, 2007 8:20 PM CDT reply actions

Z

i agree theres something def wrong with him and i think him jawing at fans was the stupidest thing hes done

by hiphopgamer26 on Sep 3, 2007 8:25 PM CDT reply actions

Yeah,

Zambrano could use with some good relaxation techniques or something.

But something else is going on, too, I think.

Hmm.

I just keep wanting to to break open a bigger lead and they just keep sitting there.

phat

by phatass on Sep 3, 2007 8:27 PM CDT reply actions

was Z jawwing with the fans, or

did it seem that he knew the fans were upset/disappointed/frustrated with him and he was gesturing that he was hearing it and it was registering with him - perhaps indicating that he is going to get in gear and be the Ace this team and its fans have come to expect?

by rustydevil on Sep 3, 2007 8:29 PM CDT reply actions

Watching on TV

it appeared that Z was saying that he agreed that he was sucking and needed to do better. But, I couldn't read any lips and I am sure the Sun Times will get to the bottom of it tomorrow...

by LT on Sep 3, 2007 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions

Z's Problems

are that he's hyperactive and not too intelligent. He's supposed to be a grown man, but his childish melt-downs are visible from miles away. I cringed when he was recently signed, and unless he gets his act together, it will be the worst investment Cub management has made in a long time.

PERRY!!!!

by Goat Whisperer on Sep 3, 2007 8:34 PM CDT reply actions

They were in a...

... damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. If they didn't sign Z, they risked letting him go to the Mets or elsewhere and be dominant, and then all of us bitching about it for years to come.

Since he hasn't been good since signing, it appears at this writing to have not been such a great idea. But the five year extension hasn't even taken effect yet.

Let's hope he can get his act together for his final four or five starts. We need him.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Sep 3, 2007 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions

too many know it all knots...that equate character

issues to success or failure. Zambrano is an egnima in a bottle of contradictions with more talent than most people know. He did a stupid thing today and he allowed it to carry into his primary role, pitching.

Whatever he did, I think went to an undercurrent in the clubhouse since the 3Bcoach has been conservative much of the year and Z was expressing the impulsive nature of a talented aggressive player that will be taken care in the clubhouse by Piniella and Co.

As for his pitching performance I think they let out enough rope to say he will do it their way period.

Cubs lost nothing today except a missed opportunity but they eliminated another game from the schedule. Also Patterson got a hit, Soto a good AB and some other experiences by Pie and Eyre.

Milw-09-24-98--Brown in for defense--bases loaded--flyball--HE DROPPED THE BALL!!!NO NO NO, cubs lose 8-7

by Ivy Walls on Sep 3, 2007 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions

thank you.

this is the kind of post i like reading. you're right, lots of good things happened today.

wuertz was lights-out, too.

by rockpantson on Sep 4, 2007 3:08 AM CDT up reply actions

I CAN read lips...

And read body language pretty well...I'm hearing impaired and have been reading lips my entire life.

Zambrano was absolutely agreeing with the fans who were booing him. He didn't really say anything until he got to the dugout but was nodding in apparent agreement with the boos. Then he pointed to his head and saying, "I KNOW, I KNOW". Go check the replays.

I strongly advise you not to get on Zambrano's case for "jawing with the fans" because he knows he messed up badly. It appears that now he is having trouble BECAUSE of the pressure to perform that his humongous contract brings. Most unfortunate.

by cubsonWGN4ever on Sep 3, 2007 8:48 PM CDT reply actions

This may be true.

If it is, then someone close to Z has to sit down with him and remind him that the money shouldn't change the essential nature of who he is, and that he should just go out there and throw the way we know he can.

If there's a mechanical problem (as there clearly was earlier in the year), then get to work on fixing it. NOW.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Sep 3, 2007 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions

According to the AP Optional Story...

He was not agreeing with the fans. He was upset they were booing him. I don't know if this is anywhere on the internet (i'm seeing this at work on the AP wire), but he is quoted as saying he doesn't understand why the fans were booing him, and that the fans only care about themselves. I don't know what the copyright laws concerning lifting quotes from a wire story are, so I don't know if I should post them.

by markleonette on Sep 3, 2007 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions

well acoording to his post game comments

he was not agreeing with them at all. "I don't understand why the fans were booing at me. I can't understand that," Zambrano said. "They showed me today they just care about them. That's no fair. Because when you are struggling, that's when you want to feel the support of the fans."

I don't think anyone can read Z's body language.

by DC Cubbie on Sep 3, 2007 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions

These Are the Quotes...

I was referring to in my previous post.

by markleonette on Sep 3, 2007 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions

Nothing wrong

with booing a player now and then. They make a ton of money and get to listen to the cheers when they do well. They lead a life any one of us here would take in a heartbeat. It's part of the job. I think Carlos got booed today largely due to the manner in which he lost. It was another classic meltdown, precipitated by another boneheaded play, running through the Quade stop sign. I'm really beginning to think that he just isn't very smart. The old "million dollar arm, ten cent head" syndrome. It's going to be hard work splitting this series now; unfortunately, I don't like our chances in a Penny vs Trachsel matchup. As far as the loss today, it's just one game and whether you lose by one or eight, it's still a loss. Better luck tomorrow.

by qccub on Sep 3, 2007 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions

I'm all for him skipping his next start

I think he needs a wake up call. If you can't get the job done we will put someone in there who can. Carlos seems like a man with a lot of pride. I think it will force him to rethink his antics. The organization has made excuses for him far too long. There was no repercussion after he punched Barrett. He has gotten away with acting like a spoiled child. It is time for Lout to lay down the law.

by mgfabc on Sep 3, 2007 8:49 PM CDT reply actions

couldn't agree with you more

thats a really good way to look at it.

I don't think he gets a free pass just because he's young and has a huge contract looming over him that is creating increased pressure... he's a professional athlete these guys ask for the pressure when they ask for the money.

I know, you know, we all know that Z is worth the cash. Now its time that he goes out and starts acting like it.

by rustydevil on Sep 3, 2007 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions

Shortest full name (first and last)

I think the record for the shortest full name still belongs to Ed Ott, hard-nosed catcher for Pirates in the late 70s.

At least until Scott Boras convinces Alex Rodriguez to legally change his name to ARod thereby ushering in a whole new era (no pun intended) of licensing revenue...

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Sep 3, 2007 8:58 PM CDT reply actions

LOL

You're right on the full name, but Hu still gets the record for shortest LAST name.

We also have had the LONGEST last name ever this year -- Saltalamacchia, 15 letters. The previous record was 13, held by several.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Sep 4, 2007 4:06 AM CDT up reply actions

Zambrano was not happy about the booing

Or so he said in the postgame news conference. He said the fans had no business doing it.

I disagree. Booing can get out of hand, but a performance like today's was deserving of it, particularly on the heels of a number of other bad efforts.

Frankly, considering the way some Cubs teams have played over the years and the franchise's lack of success, I don't think fans boo enough sometimes.

By way of comparison, I was watching the Cardinals game today when Kip Wells was taken out. He was booed lustily.

If the self-proclaimed "best fans in baseball" can boo with impunity, I see no reason Cubs' fans shouldn't, either, when it's warranted.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 3, 2007 9:04 PM CDT reply actions

Speaking of Trachsel...

Given his propensity for spending a long time on the mound, I got to thinking who would be the ultimate batter for him to face in order to establish a modern-day record for the longest AB.

It would have to be someone who not only took a long time at the plate in between pitches, but also had the skill to work the count and see a lot of pitches.

Of course, my first thought was Mike Hargrove, the human rain delay. But if I have to limit it to someone from Trachsel's era, I'd go with either Nomar or given what we just saw in the Brewer series, how about Gabe Gross?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Sep 3, 2007 9:09 PM CDT reply actions

In 2004...

... in this May 12 game between the Cubs and Dodgers in LA, Alex Cora had an 18-pitch at-bat vs. Matt Clement, which ended when Cora homered.

I can't think of too many longer than that.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Sep 4, 2007 4:08 AM CDT up reply actions

I remember

an at bat from Franco versus Farnsworth that ended up with either a 3 run or grand slam home run. I'm sure it wasn't 18 pitches, but it was agonizing to watch as the speed and location of every pitch was similar.

BTW, I became a huge fan of Theriot partly because I saw him with about a 14 pitch at bat when he played AA.

It's not too late to go to Soto

by tharr on Sep 4, 2007 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions

Well, it was a nice day..

...nice walk up Clark Street with an old friend...
...good atmosphere, as always....always wonderful to be back in the old home town....
...Alfonso Soriano's HR...

Outside of that....ewwwwwwww!

As of now, I don't know what Z's deal is. He walks off pointing at his head and the scoreboard.
I was seated in the terrace (grandstand between Home and third) with a good view of his antics. If he can't take the heat, too damn bad.

His crap better stop, and Piniella needs to make it end now. I'm not sure I can agree with him missing a start -- I'm not sure how you can realistically do that. This team needs 18 more wins this month. I'd like to see him miss a start, but he's allegedly the "ace." He'd better start maturing right now.

I have defended Dodgers fans in the past, but I have some trouble defending them today. Seated near me, were 2 -- 2 in one party, and 2 in another, both in different rows...they all got up and left in the 7th inning. How so LA.

See ya in the bleachers tomorrow, Al.

And whaever

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Sep 3, 2007 9:12 PM CDT reply actions

And the record for the shortest AB...

...would be a quick working first strike pitcher against a first pitch swinger.

Hmm.... can anyone say Maddux vs Soriano? (Buehrle would probably qualify as well)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Sep 3, 2007 9:12 PM CDT reply actions

And, Z's Bonehead baserunning

As he ran through Quade's "STOP" sign was awful, on Soriano's double. He could have injured himself with the impact at home -- and, once again he stabbed at a ground ball with his pitching hand.

This "ace" better start thinking about what's he's doing out there.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Sep 3, 2007 9:14 PM CDT reply actions

Given Lou's post-game

comments about Z trying to do too much, including running through the stop sign at third, I think it is safe to say that (a) Lou will have a talk with Z and (b) Z will not miss any starts. Lou also made it clear that Z is his man down the stretch. As I said earlier today, I hope today was Z's equivalent of "the drunk who runs his car into a tree" but survives. Maybe Z can get a fresh start and grow up from this performance and realize tha he personally threw and ran this game away for the Cubs. As Lou said, "he will have to learn that he can only do so much."

Prince Fielder...he is neither.

by LAcarl519 on Sep 3, 2007 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions

And what exactly will that do?

Fatz has some of the best "Stuff", but having the best stuff hasn't translated to jack. He's not a great pitcher and you are kidding yourself if you think Lou is comfortable starting him in Game of of any post season.

What do you expect Lou to say after they resign him, that he acts like a petulant child?

by BigFatZ on Sep 3, 2007 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions

and

what exactly is giving up on him gunna do

by tizzle on Sep 3, 2007 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions

Do?

Unfortunately the Cubs management in their infinite wisdom gave Fatz Santana like money for a guy that's really a #2 at best or a #3. The Cubs are stuck with coddling Fatz for the life of the contract in order to maximize his value.

Just my $0.02, but at some point Fatz will become a Sam-me type influence in the clubhouse. The Cubs will have to decide if 2 Months of "brilliance" is worth the other 5 Moths of BS.

by BigFatZ on Sep 3, 2007 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions

Mr Zambrano, get in shape.

Both physically and mentally. He crumbled mentally after he was tagged out. And he also tired after the 3rd inning, as has been usual for him lately, and especially after running to home plate.

So, my advice to the Cubs organization is to get this guy in shape. He looks fatter than ever before, doesn't hydrate, gets tired easily. Stop drinking and eating so much and get in shape! Quick! Before Halloween!

Now Mr. Zambrano says the fans shouldn't boo him. Well, Mr. Zambrano, let me quote from ESPN, in case you haven't noticed:

Goat: Zambrano lost his fifth straight start and has a 9.56 ERA in three starts since the Cubs gave him a $91.5 million, five-year contract extension through 2012.

And he hasn't won a game since July. I guess the fans have a right to expres their frustration. What else can they do? If Mr. Zambrano is man enough to enjoy the cheers when he excels, can he be man enough to endure the jeers when he sucks? As Derek Lee said, again quoting from the same AP article on ESPN: "It's just the nature of [the] game. We've [sic] all in here have been booed."

At least he realizes he sucked today (and last week, and the one before that,...). Again, from the same article:

"I will remember that," Zambrano said of the fan reaction. "I don't want to stink and [have] bad outings. I know the great moment of my career will come."

So that's what he was saying while pointing to his head on his way to the dugout! Can at least a good moment of your career happen soon? Say, before November?

In the past, I've tried to understand this guy. I thought it was all culture shock, that he was expressive, that his mechanics were wrong, that he was frustrated with his catcher or the way the team was losing. Now I confess I can't understand him. Obviously, the guy is out of control, out of mental and physical shape. I don't know if Zambrano can be straightend out but I'm afraid we're going to find out the hard way, in the middle of a division race.

As to that, the stars must be aligned in the Cubs favor. After today's meltdown, the Cubs magic number decreased by one thanks to the inept rivals the team has in this division. Somehow, I'll slep better tonight. At least, better than Mr. Zambrano.

by Fraggin Judge on Sep 3, 2007 9:52 PM CDT reply actions

I gotta say...........

.........your comments are spot on.

For anyone who thought his gestures coming off the field were suggesting that "he gets it and he knows he had a bad game", then you've obviously not watched this guy since he's been in baseball. I didn't need to see/hear his post-game comments to know EXACTLY what he was thinking. It was only of himself.

I was torn on the whole idea of inking this guy to a long term deal. The way he pitched AND behaved in June/July led me to believe he'd actually turned the corner. Ya know.......like he'd grown up or something.

Obviously nothing could be further from the truth.

He's as self-serving as Sosa with a skull twice as thick.

This could really drag the team down, and with all the competition falling apart, this is the last thing the Cubs needed.

If Duh-sty Toothpick was still around, I'd say we have a serious catastrophe on our hands, but I am hoping Lou will get in this clown's grill and give him the cold hard facts: Act like a man, listen to those around you and remember you are NOT bigger than the team. If that happens, there is still hope for the post-season in 2007.

by tville on Sep 3, 2007 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions

I think...

... your comparison with Sosa is a little over-the-top. Sosa was "all about me" -- didn't really care about the team.

There's no question in my mind Z wants to win. Probably TOO much, which makes him do these bonehead things. Again, someone has to sit down and explain the concept of "staying within yourself". You've seen him in his at-bats when he swings and tries to hit a 900-foot HR with every swing. In the AB where he singled before the baserunning blunder, he fouled off a couple of pitches and had a really nice swing to get the hit.

That's what he has to do to succed in every way -- just do what he is capable of doing, but not try to be all nine players on the field at once.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Sep 4, 2007 4:10 AM CDT up reply actions

Time will tell...............

.........on this comparison to Sosa, Al. I think we all were taken in bit by bit with Sammy. He did not start his Cubs career as "Sam-ME!", but after years of management casting a blind eye to his charades, the cards tumbled quickly and painfully.

by tville on Sep 4, 2007 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions

What people fail to understand about real talent

Talent at the competitive level is really special. There are few who really have it, few indeed. Zambrano has always had talent since I saw him with Lansing Lugnuts along with Corey Patterson, & Choi among a few other pretenders. You treat talent differently to the disagreement of the rest who don't have talent because you expect talent to carry you.

On the Cubs there are seven players who have real talent, Lee, Ramirez, Soriano, Zambrano, Floyd, Wood and Pie. Capturing and executing what their talent can be is what a coaching does with them. The other players, DeRosa, Theriot, Lilly, Hill, Jones, Kendall, Blanco, Murton, Dempster, Howry, Marmol et all are role players. They need to contribute by working and and perfecting their game within the limitations of their game.

Zambrano tried to do too much, especially offensively and single handlely lead the team and it crashed today. He failed to head the knowledge of the coaching staff and game well hewned over the years of a mental approach. Zambrano has not been successful at the mental game, he has been successful with talent. He has a lot of learning to do as does Soriano and Pie. floyd might be too broken up by injuries

As for Ramirez and Lee they are peaking while limited with injuries. Wood I see is developing into a real powerful reliever where I see him being a dominant reliever as he was a starter. Pie got a hit today after hitting the ball hard and taking pitches. I see him contributing in a mighty way this year before it is over.

This is a real resilient team and I see the team coming together around Z and moving forward, because they need him as he needs them. Tomorrow I see this team playing one of the best fundamental games of the year. Funny a blow out like this allows a team to react to it.

I also saw the future today in many ways. Patterson is the other OF'er, he could be an effective utility player with a good winter, ability to play 3 OF positions, and possibly an infield position in a pinch. Soto whom I saw here in CO Springs looks like a good young catcher. And Pie looked more confident at the plate.

I will take away from this game more than the naysayers. Remember the Cardinals lost 11-0 to the lowest of all the Pirates and the Brewers were up 7-4 and let the lowly Astros win 9-7.

Milw-09-24-98--Brown in for defense--bases loaded--flyball--HE DROPPED THE BALL!!!NO NO NO, cubs lose 8-7

by Ivy Walls on Sep 3, 2007 9:53 PM CDT reply actions

You had a couple of nice long postings

this evening that I really liked and agreed with. I also think that the sight of Big Z walking off the mound and pointing at his ear and shaking his head as he was being boo'd will be replayed as a turning point in this season, similar to Lou being ejected on 6/3. I like the fact that today's melt down came exactly three months after Lou's tirade (9/3). I think Lou is a smart man and he will take the time to get into Z's head that he can only do so much on the mound, with his bat and on the bases and that is it...otherwise he becomes a liability to the team. I still believe that Lou will turn Z into a catalyst for success during these last four weeks and October. This is the kind of challenge Lou lives for.

Prince Fielder...he is neither.

by LAcarl519 on Sep 3, 2007 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions

A couple of really good posts

I agree with most of what you both say. It makes me think a bit.

Nice work, guys.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 3, 2007 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions

-sigh-

I hope so.

I really do.

It would be so sweet to see our tem WIN their team into the playoffs with momentum, instead of Losing their way into it.

It is SEPTEMBER, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Sep 3, 2007 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions

Either way works

Remember, nobody could accuse the Cardinals of having much momentum when they got in last year.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 3, 2007 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions

Sorry, but this whole............

........"trying to do too much" is just a cop-out in my opinion. I could buy this explanation if we were talking about a guy who rarely goes astray, but this type of behavior is an everyday occurrence with Master ("Mister" would be inappropriate) Zambrano.

by tville on Sep 3, 2007 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions

I Think Piniella's Playing It Cool Publicly Here..

....because I heard what he had to say after Zambrano signed his new contract. He's not at all sold on Zambrano's mental makeup. He's sold on his talent, just not his head.

If anyone recalls my San Francisco diary, I left out a lot of the details and comments I overheard out of deference to the people there, i.e. Santo, Hendry, Piniella and Sinatro. While I'm still not going to divulge word for word what I heard, I can say that after today's Zambrano meltdown, Lou likely has already stuck his foot up Carlos's backside.

Santo Forever!

by BeerCub on Sep 3, 2007 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions

Understood..............

.........completely and I hope you are right. Going back to my previous post, if Duh-sty were still at the helm, this would be an unmitigated disaster. My faith in Lou is, like yours, strong and I'm hopeful he'll get things in order.

by tville on Sep 3, 2007 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions

Agreed!

n/t

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Sep 4, 2007 4:11 AM CDT up reply actions

Without Commenting On Anything Else Here.....

....I'd put Marmol in the "real talent" category.

Santo Forever!

by BeerCub on Sep 3, 2007 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions

I don't disagree with you except....

...baseball is loaded with talented players who never reach their potential because they can't harness their mental approach. It's not just true in baseball, but in any sport. Zambrano has shown a tendancy I really don't like, and that is he is showing less command/control as his career moves along. IMO, this is not a good sign.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Sep 3, 2007 11:55 PM CDT up reply actions

i think you're nuts if you don't

think that marmol is a 'talent' guy. that guy is overflowing with it. also, can you say rich hill? j. jones? etc.

"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie

by buckmulligan on Sep 4, 2007 12:37 AM CDT up reply actions

Several of us

in the last thread discussed that a spanish-speaking psychologist could be immeasurably valuable to Z. He certainly has a profound tendancy to completely lose his composure when something doesn't go his way. How can he be counted on with the way the last six weeks has gone?

His velocity was in the low-mid 90's and he struck out two of the first three batters - I can't imagine there are physical problems...

And after his STUPID base-running move - he STILL has the lead.

I agree with the above poster that I felt Zambrano was showing a bit of self-deprication when he was getting booed.

But if I see Oh-Man! on the mound once more this year, I am going to puke. I was elated when he was shipped - and bummed when he got recalled.

It is SEPTEMBER, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Sep 3, 2007 9:56 PM CDT reply actions

We were losing so badly...

that I didn't get mad with Ohman. The way I saw it is better he pitch today than in a crucial spot. But if I were Lou I would only use Ohman as a spot lefty, to pitch to one left handed batter, or in situations like today's (e.g., lost causes).

by Fraggin Judge on Sep 3, 2007 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions

Lost Cause ?

When Oh-Man came in today, we were down by four. Considering it was only the fifth inning and we were down by four, I really don't think it was a lost cause at that time.
If he is used again this season, I don't want to see him unless we are up by ten or more. And I do not even want to think about a game in which we are losing by a "lost cause" score because we cannot afford any more of these meltdowns like today.
What really gets me about using Oh-Man, is even using him at all. What he did today was the exact same reason he got shipped off to Iowa. He comes back and guess what -- he does the same damn things he did when he was here most of the year.
And again after his bs complaints and statement that he made after he was sent down. What does this guy deserve to even be on this team? Bring back Pignatello. At least we won't have to put up with this sorry excuse for a relief pitcher named Oh-Man.
One more thing -- please let's get out of this subbing Hank White for Kendall game. Let's use Soto. Blanco was up a couple of times today with men on base and failed. We all know that Blanco is not playing because of his bat. So what are we losing by playing Soto? For crying out loud, the kid did everything and more at Iowa. Put him in and let him play.
As for Z, like everyone else on here tonight, I was extremely pissed at this baserunning gaffe and his lousy pitching performance. Someone has to sit down with this guy and make him understand that he needs to pitch and not throw like every toss is his last. There are only 4 weeks left and he is scheduled for 5 or 6 more starts. If he doesn't get the job done, October baseball will soon be another dream.

by ceegeewow on Sep 3, 2007 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions

Yes, that game was effectively lost...

after Zambrano's meltdown. That's the kind of distraction that takes a team out of a ballagme even if they're losing by only a couple of runs.

Unlike you, I don't believe Soto can deal with Zambrano's attitude at this stage of the young catcher's career. You need a catcher that's able to calm down Zambrano. Unfortunately in this game not even an experienced latin catcher like Blanco could do that. In other situations, he might.

Don't get me wrong. I live in Soto's hometown. I want him to succeed. But he's too young and inexperienced to be the captain of an infield and the handler of our pitchers in the middle of a division race.

by Fraggin Judge on Sep 4, 2007 7:24 AM CDT up reply actions

I guess

you can just ignore Fatz's post game comments.

He's not a young kid breaking into the bigs. I doubt the psycologist will have much effect, but since the Cubs are on the hook for $18MM, anythings worth a shot.

by BigFatZ on Sep 3, 2007 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions

Now, granted.

Cub fans have gotten worse. Much worse -- in the last 5 years. Expectations have gotten to limits that aren't really possible. I mean Cub fans want D-Lee to hit a homer in every game .. Ramirez to go 2-3 with 2 HR and so on and so forth. Now reading the articles online .. they said the list of previous players getting booed (current players only) included Lee, Ramirez, Jones, Eyre, Howry and Soriano. Excluding Howry, Eyre, and Jones (at times), none of them deserved the harsh booing it got.

Now this is baseball.. the people playing this sport are human. They will make mistakes.. and yes it's JUST A GAME. But the fact remains that Zambrano has pitched like shit. And to use the word "pitching" isn't even needed. He's been throwing the ball at home plate. He hasn't been pitching like his talent and he seems as if he is fragile.

And he is a damn lier. He had to see Quade. You are ALWAYS supposed to look at the 3rd base coach coming around the corner. The decision he made was IDOTIC to say the least. The way he has pitched has been awful.. just plain awful. And the only person holding him back from being great? Himself.

Boy times like today (AND I HATE TO SAY IT) It makes me wish that Mark Prior was healthy because I still feel as if he had stayed healthy and would stop throwing towels instead of balls .. we would be up 10 1/2 games by now.

Sigh oh well....

"Losing is my only fear"

by Unique on Sep 3, 2007 10:31 PM CDT reply actions

no, the real drag about those other starters we

used to have is that zambrano would have only been our number 2 man, maybe 3.

"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie

by buckmulligan on Sep 4, 2007 12:40 AM CDT up reply actions

"He had to see Quade..."

Those of us (un)lucky enough to be there today, will say as you have - NO WAY he "misses" the sign.

Quade was WAY down the line with hands raised.

It, again, was his own arrogance.

It is SEPTEMBER, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Sep 3, 2007 10:46 PM CDT reply actions

Baseball Tonight on ESPN.

On Sunday they drew a stop sign between Quade's arms to point out that the stop signal was very visible. On the other hand, you can see in the replay that Zambrano wasn't looking.

by Fraggin Judge on Sep 4, 2007 7:38 AM CDT up reply actions

Z

Z made a dumb call roundin the bases today obvioiusly. I cant really blame a fiery competitor like z as much as id like. I think today was a huge wake up call, im not really worried about him. and i think he was agreeing with fans shakin his head in agreement. Lot of pressure on him right now. On a good note, Soriano def looks good at least batting, and Eyre and Weurtz threw well, especially eyre tho.

by Diggs247 on Sep 3, 2007 11:02 PM CDT reply actions

Mechanics are part of it

While the mental issues are certainly part of the game, from what I saw on TV, there's some mechanical ones too. First off, he has been struggling with his arm slot. He gets great movement on his fastball, but when he drops his arm slot, those pitches tail out of the strike zone. Bob Brenly noted how the Dodgers started taking more pitches the second time through the order. Some of those tailing fastballs don't miss by much, but they do.

Once that starts happening, Zambrano started aiming more pitches to compensate. This was particularly obvious when he was trying to go inside on Luis Gonzalez.

When Zambrano has been at his best, he's kept his walks down to about 3 per 9 IP. In the last two years, that's become more of a problem for him. This needs to be addressed.

by MrHonorama on Sep 3, 2007 11:29 PM CDT reply actions

More support to my theory.

Zambrano is out of shape. He tires too early in the ballgame and then drops his arm.

by Fraggin Judge on Sep 4, 2007 7:55 AM CDT up reply actions

I posted this in the

"Zambrano rips on us" thread, but I'll repeat it here. It's the Tribune's story on the game.

I think Z is going to regret saying this.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-070903cubsgamer,1,4733765.story?coll =cs-home-headlines

by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 3, 2007 11:48 PM CDT reply actions

That's not a very well written article.

phat

by phatass on Sep 4, 2007 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions

That was an incredible article

However, I'd be willing to bet that Zambrano apologizes within 24-48 hours.

Emotionally, he's still a child whose frame of reference is himself. However, I'm convinced both Lou and Hendry will have him back on board soon. And, while I'm not convinced he'll remain there, I'll give him one more start to prove himself. No more excuses or pouting. It's time for Piniella to insist he man up or watch him miss a start.

Finally, he surely embarrassed the entire team. They need to deal with him the way they dealt with Ohman when he crossed the line.

It's not too late to go to Soto

by tharr on Sep 4, 2007 1:03 AM CDT up reply actions

I completely agree with you.

n/t

by Fraggin Judge on Sep 4, 2007 7:50 AM CDT up reply actions

I can't even imagine the pressure these guys face

I don't make a lot of money but a lot is on the line when it comes to getting my job done and I have freakouts. I don't have millions of people watching my every move. That's got to be a big amount of pressure.

Granted, he's a professional and should be able to deal with the pressure. I think Zambrano will figure it out.

The fact that everybody is calling him the ace and that the team needs him to win the first world series for the Cubs in almost 100 years has got to be pretty stressful.

I don't expect them to win the series this year. I want them to. I hope they do. But I don't expect them to win it all.

To be honest, I'm not sure you could pay me enough to deal with that kind of pressure.

Zambrano could probably use somebody talking to him and calming him down. That can be very difficult. I would be surprised if he were having panic attacks on the mound. That's really hard to deal with, no matter what.

Think about it this way, if he's getting freaked out on the mound and then starts screwing up that's just going to freak him out even more. Then, we he looks back on it he thinks he shouldn't be freaking out, which makes him freak out more. It's a pretty common problem and can take a lot of work to deal with. Lots of people would freak out under those circumstances. It's really only natural.

These guys aren't super heroes. They're people. You expect the guy to relax and yet you're getting terribly worked up about what he's doing? Few people are bigger Cubs fans than the people who play for the Cubs right now.

He needs to calm down and everybody else needs to calm down.

I'm glad Lou seems to have calmed down, too. That's the kind of attitude to take when these kinds of things happen.

Z will be fine. The Cubs will be fine. They may not win the series (although I hope they do) but after last year, I'm pretty much enamored with this current team. Last year was the worst season they've had in my lifetime.

phat

by phatass on Sep 4, 2007 12:02 AM CDT reply actions

I was fully expecting Z to....

I totally thought he was going to go in to the dugout and punch a brick wall and bust his hand. It was a foregone conclusion that he was going to be out for the season for me. So I think he handled it pretty well. It's a low point for him. You have to respect his balls, but that was a terrible terrible play today, and you can't respect his stupidity for running through that sign. And it made me furious that it let it effect his performance on the mound. He is so immature. The bright side is that this is his low point and he is going to hit stride at the end of the year and in to the playoffs (if we are there). Obviously he is dominant for long stretches, so if he took off August, then he will owe us four or five wins in Sept. and (pray to God) in Oct. too. The eyes are rolling over Z tonight, for sure, but he is not done.....he is after all, Big Z.

by conorj on Sep 4, 2007 1:11 AM CDT reply actions

47% win probability for tuesday

Dodger Sims blog which runs 2000 game simulations to determine the win probability for each NL West game, is giving the Cubs a 47% win probability in tuesday's game vs the Dodgers.
vr, Xei

by Xeifrank on Sep 4, 2007 1:31 AM CDT reply actions

And yesterday it was

72% chance the Cubs would have won w/the #1 against the #5 starters.

See how that one worked out?

It is SEPTEMBER, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Sep 4, 2007 6:58 AM CDT up reply actions

#5 vs #1

57% of the Cubs winning vs Loaiza yesterday.
vr, Xei

by Xeifrank on Sep 4, 2007 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions

John Kruk...

wondered last night why Ramírez was playing aligned to the base instead of behind it when Loaiza hit the single between 3rd and SS. I'm assuming he was guarding against a possible bunt but that play was unlikely. Any thoughts?

by Fraggin Judge on Sep 4, 2007 8:02 AM CDT reply actions

I was there and imo

he was out of position, woefully.

He was counting on Theriot to make the play.

It was his.

He did not have a great game yesterday either.

It is SEPTEMBER, and we're STILL IN IT! YES!

by TheEman on Sep 4, 2007 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions

It looked to me that

Z has regressed to his bad arm slot again. He seemed to be pushing the ball up there again. I didn't see the game after he ran through the stop sign, but from the first 3 innings, he looked like he was before when he was losing consistently. Any thoughts?

"When you're eight games behind, it's like eight miles; when you're eight games in front, it's like eight inches."- Ron Santo

by BigJohnAZ on Sep 4, 2007 9:49 AM CDT reply actions