Thursday Morning Headlines

by cwyers on Jan 17, 2008 8:42 AM CST Comment 117 comments

Well, with the baseball season approaching - less than a month until pitchers and catchers report - the engines of the writers are starting to warm up again. Nothing too exciting, yet. But some interesting notes.

Jeff Samardzija plans on reporting to camp Jan. 24th - about a week from now, and three weeks early. He started his training program in November, apparently.

Cubs pitching coach Larry Rothschild is realistic about Samardzija's chances of making a quantum leap to the big club after only one full year in the minors.

"Right now it would be a push. But I would love to see him compete and have us start thinking that maybe he can do it," Rothschild said. "There is a learning curve and he is still in the middle of it. But all the pieces are there: the ability, the makeup, the competitiveness, so it's just a matter of time.

"If that time is now, that would be great. If it's not, that's OK."

...

Samardzija has added a split-finger pitch to his repertoire.

"I didn't really throw a splitter last year, which I do have," he said. "My changeup is coming along. It's nice to have this extra two or three months to work on your changeup and slider."

Do I think anything will come of it? Quite frankly, not a whole lot. But it's nice to see that sort of dedication, at least.

Lou doesn't much care about the 100 years thing. Chris DeLuca also says that the Cubs could move Fukudome into center if Pie strugles; presumably Murton or (shudder) Ward would move to right field. He doesn't give any indication if this is something he heard or speculation on his part. [If you were wondering - Murton/Ward? Entirely speculation on my part.]

Less speculative - Lou says Fukudome could hit second or fifth. Oh, and this will suprise you - Mark DeRosa isn't 100% thrilled by the efforts to replace him.

The Lieber says he finished his rehab in October, and is fully functional. Here's hoping.

[editor's note, by Al] I haven't done this in a while, but cwyers' diary was, well, pretty much what I was going to do this morning -- a headline post, with pretty much the same headlines I was going to post. So, I'm moving it to the front page. There's only one other news item I wanted to call people's attention to:

A 36-year-old Pardeeville man accusing of tying up his 7-year-old son with tape Saturday after the boy refused to wear a Green Bay Packers sweatshirt during the divisional playoff game against Seattle said the incident was a joke that "got blown way out of proportion." Matthew Kowald was arrested Monday on tentative felony charges of causing mental harm to a child and false imprisonment, but was issued only a disorderly conduct citation for the incident. What is with those Packers fans?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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I like DeRosa

but he needs to keep quiet until the Cubs offically add another 2nd baseman. DeRosa was very good last year, and deserves to have a everyday job next year.(one reason I'm not crazy about getting Roberts) But he is coming off as a pretty big whinner right now. You don't say what about me, were am I going to play kind of stuff. He should just say I'm not sure whats going to happen, but I'm willing to do whatever the Cubs ask me to do. Then privately go to Hendry or Piniella and tell them his concerns.

I'm not saying DeRosa is wrong for feeling the way he is. The guy was stuck as a bench player his whole career, and finally improved enough to be a everyday player. So after coming off a good season It must suck possibly losing your starting job. I could only imagine what all these Roberts on the verge of coming to the Cubs rumors are doing to DeRosa. But he needs to stop making those type of comments in the media, or fans will turn on him quick.

I just hope this Roberts stuff is over soon either he's on the Cubs or lets plan on DeRosa on being the everyday guy at second.

by cubsfan25 on Jan 17, 2008 1:15 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Todd Walker, I mean Derosa does....

.....needs to shut his yap. It is part of the job, these "rumors". If he doesn't like it, he can try working a 40 hour job with a half hour lunch break.

The only thing he can control is getting ready for the season and being ready to play wherever the Cubs choose to play him. If you're going to play the game of Baseball for a living and get payed Millions of dollars, you better have thick skin and especially need to stop whining to the Chicago media if you're feelings get hurt. Unless you want to come across as a big baby.

I reject your reality and substitute my own. ` Adam Savage Mythbusters

by lemon20pie on Jan 17, 2008 1:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Derosa is no Todd Walker.

As for his attitude and this report, well... I'm a little glad to see he's upset about the prospect of losing playing time. Though he didn't phrase it particularly well, I imagine his intentions are probably something less nefarious and selfish than "I want to be important."

I kind of see it as him being more confident in his abilities after a good year last year as the primary 2B, combined with a desire to contribute. Should he have paid lip service to the club and said, "I'll do anything they want me to?" Probably. But let's not forget that the guy actually DID do everything asked of him, without complaint, last year.

by daubs on Jan 17, 2008 7:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Todd Walkier?!

C'Mon, Pie - you're pushing it a bit there aren't you?

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Jan 17, 2008 7:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Walkier=

Walker

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Jan 17, 2008 7:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

For New Year

I'm wishing for an edit button on the new BCB website. If not, there will be mutanity.

"Trapled moss on your souls; changes all you're a part; seen it all, not at all; can't defend a (Cubs fan)"- pearl jam

by section229beer on Jan 17, 2008 2:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The only thing they have in common

The only thing they have in common is both men are incredibly hot.

Todd Walker was constantly mouthing off. He'd stop people in the street to do so.

DeRosa has made comments twice.

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Jan 17, 2008 7:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No harm in wanting to keep your job.

I don't have a problem with Derosa expressing his concerns at all. (And I had a problem with signing him to be a starter, LOL!) He played great, not HOF great, but for him he had a great season and gave the Cubs all they could have hoped for in 2007. It's the off-season and roster decisions are the focus and to me it's reasonable to want to know how you'll be used in the event that you are replaced in one of your main roles.

When I saw some of the players that the Os wanted for Roberts I was hoping that it would die. Hopefully it has or they lower their demands to something commensurate with Roberts' age and non-roid/HGH production capabilities. Of course maybe the Cubs would ship guys who were inflated by roids and HGH so it all comes out in the wash? Everyone drops to a lower level...

Regarding the other topics, the 100 year thing is real in that it apparently has mental effect. To me you have to have a team that is really lucky and/or loaded in talent. The players here seem to let it show that they are mentally bothered by the pressure. It's not a curse, it's mental stress.

The Packers fan and his parenting skills? I can see where taping your kid up could be a joke. Kids can do things that can make parents extremely angry--that's part of the reality of parenthood. Maybe this Packers Parent is a total tool, but I reserve my anger and the long arm of the law for more serious offenses. So, just one word for Packers Parent Tool from a commercial that he should have memorized by now --

"Dude!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

by DudeVf11 on Jan 17, 2008 10:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No where in that article

do I see DeRosa coming off as a 'whiner' but what I do see someone who is confident and believes (just as I think many here do) that his stats and play last year warrant at least a shot at being the starting 2B. This article actually almost reads the same as the interview he gave to ESPN 1000 months ago in which he declared that playing for the Cubs and their fans is like a dream come true. And that in fact he is good friends w/ Roberts and that he would welcome him here though at the same time it would be hard to conceive what his role would be then. It's not like he's a rookie spouting off but more like a savvy veteran just speaking what he believes to be true. Now I personally don't have a problem w/ Roberts coming over either, I just don't think the starting spot should be handed over to him on silver platter w/o any competition. But, to each their own.

"In all the categories that you pay the most attention to, except the loss column, we're doing very well" - Jim Hendry

by Jayo525 on Jan 17, 2008 10:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

EMERGENCY LOCKDOWN MODE!

There are currently reports circulating around the Internets that ESPN 1000 reported that a Roberts deal was done late last night. According to many of those same rumors, ESPN 1000 later retracted (or at least backed off) those reports.

Therefore, I officially declare this to be an Official BCB Emergency.

Please remember these important steps:

Above all else stay calm. Just remember: we are, after all, the Chicago Cubs. We have second basemen like Britney has problems. Someone will be playing second base this season.
Trust no one. If your mother says she loves you, ask your father if he can corroborate.
Remember: if Ken Rosenthal doesn't say it, it probably didn't happen.

We can make it through these difficult times if we band together and remember what's truly important. But vigilance and sacrifice will be necessary. Be always on the alert!

I would suggest you learn to truly interrupt all stats before using any selective stats. -- cubswin

by cwyers on Jan 17, 2008 1:31 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Awesomest post on here in awhile!

I'm gonna start a diary about this latest earth shattering rumor.

I reject your reality and substitute my own. ` Adam Savage Mythbusters

by lemon20pie on Jan 17, 2008 1:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

ESPN 1000

ESPN 1000 reported nothing of the sort. When this was supposedly said they were broadcasting a Bulls game. They wouldn't break in to announce a rumor. Maybe an official release but not a rumor.

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Jan 17, 2008 7:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

By "all over the internet"....

....he meant over on N(ever)S(een)B(ase)B(all)

I reject your reality and substitute my own. ` Adam Savage Mythbusters

by lemon20pie on Jan 17, 2008 7:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Also

If anyone want's to see great comedy, check out the "Roberts" thread over at NSBB under "Transactions".

It's classic NSBB.

I reject your reality and substitute my own. ` Adam Savage Mythbusters

by lemon20pie on Jan 17, 2008 7:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Bedard was apparently traded as well.....

.....last night, to the Mariners.

I reject your reality and substitute my own. ` Adam Savage Mythbusters

by lemon20pie on Jan 17, 2008 2:57 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Disregard

I reject your reality and substitute my own. ` Adam Savage Mythbusters

by lemon20pie on Jan 17, 2008 3:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sports Nite

did a 3 night segment this week on Jeff Samardzija and the training he is doing. On one of them they showed Jeff and Carmen Pignatiello throwing to each other at the Sox/Bulls camp place. I enjoyed seeing what he has been doing to get ready for this season.

"But being a nasty hateful person she can't help herself." KOW

by sue369 on Jan 17, 2008 6:51 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Sounds like he's working hard for sure

That's always nice to hear.

I reject your reality and substitute my own. ` Adam Savage Mythbusters

by lemon20pie on Jan 17, 2008 7:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Anyone else think

DeRo will have an all star year if he is our everyday 2B?

by Rezze21 on Jan 17, 2008 7:15 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

certainly possible.

"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie

by buckmulligan on Jan 17, 2008 9:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No

I think he's much more likely to regress back toward his career norms than he is to take another step forward. Age and history can't be ignored. I do not think DeRo will be as good in 2008 as he was in 2007. I like the guy and all but if he ends up being our super utility guy we'll probably be better off.

I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey

by pageian on Jan 17, 2008 9:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

no

id say last season will be the best of his career. though id bet if he gets another full season under his belt that he gets into double digit homers.

Bill James Felix Pie 2008 Projection: .283/.333/.456 16 HR 21 SB

by kylejo on Jan 17, 2008 11:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The only thing

that Roberts does better then DeRo( IMO ) is steal bases.
I like DeRosa, hell I would be miffed to if the Roberts rumors, now going on what two months, was constantly in the papers and where every he turned. I have no problem with him running his mouth a little.
Hell he had a good, solid year.

by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Jan 17, 2008 7:37 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Why didn't DeRo

address SS?

Hasn't anyone told him that more people lack faith in Theriot than him? I still think we need DeRo as an everyday player and Theriot needs more of a break. He is versatile too.

MMMMM...my mother-in-law's homemade ravioli!

by Kinky Reggae on Jan 17, 2008 8:19 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Absolutely agree

I think DeRo is going to regress some next year, but that said he'll still probably hit better than Theriot. Defense at short should remain the same and Theriot can take over the super-sub position. Makes absolute sense to me.

I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey

by pageian on Jan 17, 2008 9:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This DeRo thing is being blown out of proportion

He's stating facts and his concern about playing time; nothing wrong with that. Guess he could have done the "no comment" thing. Yup, that would be good, really open up the can of worms. Wonder what the response to that would be. Sounds like good media practice; create controversy.

My view of most of those in the media is if you can't expound on controversy, create it.

There's statements by all parties the relationships are good. DeRo is on the fence. What's he's supposed to say when the media asks him about the Roberts rumors? "I'm totally fine with it. I want another 2B guy here."? If he said that, this site would be crawling with people saying he's a damned liar.

Jim is trying to provide Lou with as much opportunity and flexibility as possible. For the lineup, Roberts I believe fits that mantra.

Our grandparents used to say, "I hope the Cubs win the Series before I die". Now the teenagers are saying it.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 17, 2008 8:23 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

I've got no problem with a guy stating his opinions honestly. I get sick of hearing the sound bites and cliches that most of the players use, it's nice to hear one of them speak honestly for a change.

I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey

by pageian on Jan 17, 2008 9:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

GMTA

I was going to do a headline post this morning... containing, pretty much, all the headlines you put in this diary. Thanks!

Here's the best quote from the Cubs Caravan article:

"My message first and foremost to my team -- and I've been thinking about that -- is don't put the load of 99 years of not winning on you," Piniella said Wednesday during a Cubs Caravan stop at Harry Caray's. "Worry about this year only. We've got a good ballclub. Don't put any pressure on yourself. Let this team stand on its own merit."

Words to live by.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 17, 2008 8:32 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

DeRo

Has anyone told him that Roberts was being thought of to play shortstop or have DeRo play short?

by Kchance on Jan 17, 2008 8:45 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I'm sure it's crossed his mind

but he probably doesn't want to offend Theriot, knowing that Theriot would feel the same way that DeRo feels now. It's not cool to campaign for someone else's job.

I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey

by pageian on Jan 17, 2008 9:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed...

He's also friends with Theriot, so he's probably not too excited about his friend potentially losing his job either.

That said, this is a business, and if getting Roberts gives the team a better chance to win a championship, then they're just going to have to deal with it.

(That of course assumes that getting Roberts would make us better, and that we'd be getting Roberts - two big assumptions)

by SouthernCub on Jan 17, 2008 9:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

On the Packer fan issue

That kind of thing can happen anywhere. Who knows, in Chicago some guy could use hot glue instead of [duct] tape.

There are several native cheeseheads at my work. We've discussed this already and come to the conclusion that the way of life in GB with football is far and away more intense than it is here in Chi-town.

But of course in this politically correct world we now live in, it'll get so much more coverage than just 20 years ago.

Our grandparents used to say, "I hope the Cubs win the Series before I die". Now the teenagers are saying it.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 17, 2008 8:51 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Not sure about this:

But of course in this politically correct world we now live in, it'll get so much more coverage than just 20 years ago.

I suspect it has much more to do with the existence of the 24-hour news hole.

Of course, that "Occam's Razor" version of it doesn't really play into anyone's political prejudices, now does it?

by MN exile on Jan 17, 2008 10:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe I'm biased....

but I don't think Green Bay loves the Packers any more than Chicago loves the Bears. You have to remember that the Packers are the only thing within a 200 mile radius of Green Bay. While Chicago is enjoying the prime days of the baseball season, they are counting down the days to the start of training camp. I'll give them their props--they're loyal, dedicated fans. But they are in the middle of nowhere. What else are they going to do?

"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Jan 17, 2008 11:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

exactly

in the middle of nowhere. It's their life, Packer season.

Believe me, I know enough of them. They sound pathetic to us, perhaps.

But think of this. The Cubs were the ONLY thing in town. Granted this 'town' if you count the 6-county area is ~9M population, is much bigger than GB but you have NO other pro sports around.

Our grandparents used to say, "I hope the Cubs win the Series before I die". Now the teenagers are saying it.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 17, 2008 12:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I must disagree

Folks, I live in "Packerland" as they call it up here, and there is simply no comparison. I am not saying that Packer fans are any better or more committed than any other sports teams, but, the level of committment/association is simply out of this world.

Do you want to buy a car? up here, you head to you local "Packerland Ford Dealer" Yes, Packerland, is a region.

Do you want hamburger buns on a Sunday? I hope you don't mind green and gold buns.

In most cases, fans of two different teams are really all that different. The Packers stand apart though. Up here it is cultural. Yeah, there isn't much else going on up here. Green Bay is a "city" of just a bit over 100,00, and the Pack is just about the only game in town.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Jan 17, 2008 12:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Didn't want to make it sound like a slam

but since you disagreed, I must not have written clearly enough.

I totally agree with the culture there. AND THAT IS FINE. Can it be said they're better? Don't know what better really means but they are dedicated.

What's the season ticket waiting list (measured in generations)? About 2.5 now? People leave Packer season tickets in their WILLS.

Talk about dedication. My point of stating earlier was perhaps some of that comes from the fact there are no other pro teams who's season are in full swing when the helmets and pads are hung up for the summer.

Our grandparents used to say, "I hope the Cubs win the Series before I die". Now the teenagers are saying it.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 17, 2008 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah...

I realized after I posted it that I wasn't so much disagreeing as expanding a bit with some local observation.

Also, I am not really a Packer fan, more of a curious bystander, so no offense taken.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Jan 17, 2008 3:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I doubt that

William of Ockham's philosophical leanings have much to do with football, nor with this situation. More likely, we find this type of behavoir apalling, call it out, and then the Evil Media Complex is accused of inflating things. See the media inflation thing isn't the simplest explanation (which Ockahm advocates for with his razor metaphor); rather, it's just a simple explanation. I'm glad we find about these things, and I hope, if a Bears fan should do such a thing, we should find out about it and criticize him/her, as well, and as roundly, as this idiot has been criticized.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jan 17, 2008 10:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Missing the point

I was responding to the nonsensical "political correctness" assertion above my comment.

Do I agree that taping up a kid is appalling? Of course.

Do I think reporting it has anything to do with political correctness? Hardly.

Do I think someone categorizing it as such (the post I was responding to) is both flat-out wrong and, to put it bluntly, rather trollish? No doubt.

Am I puzzled that people seem to be missing that point? Apparently...

by MN exile on Jan 19, 2008 4:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Childhood summers in Door County

Made me a Packer fan and proud to be one. Of course they
have nothing else in their lives but hey AT LEAST THEY OWN
THE TEAM and it can't threaten to leave town if they don't give
it what it wants. You can watch the local news in the summer
and the headline will be that a reserve right tackle sprained
his thumb fishing in MN but should be ready for camp which will be followed by a story of the elections, war in Iraq ,stock market falling 500 points, in other words the less important stuff.
Growing up in Chicago a Packer fan is probably as much fun
as being a Cub fan in Bridgeport ( My sister has still never forgiven me for filling out her offfice football pool and picking
Miami that week in 85 but hey SHE WON). They are the guys from a small place with frozen tundra beating the big guys.

GO PACK

"It's the Cubbies. There's always a vibe. It's the greatest vibe in baseball." Greg Maddux on Cub fan's optimism even after the 06 debacle.

by jessica on Jan 17, 2008 2:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Jessica: I grew up in the north suburbs

of Chicago, but our family adopted the Packers as "our team" as my dad grew up a Cardinals fan and he was so pissed when the team left Chicago, that he adopted the Packers as his team when he started a business in Green Bay with his best freiend int he early 1960s...

What a time to start being a Packer fan (the great 1960s). I went to the 1967 Ice Bowl (as an 11 yr old), so how can I be anyting but a Packer fan for life?

Packer fans are everywhere in America. Great passion, but many outside of Green Bay seem to be more Favre fans that like Green Bay becasue of him. The true passionate Packer fan has to have midwest roots.

But I will tell you, it was very lonely wearing those green & gold wool caps to school in the 1970s. No love. :-)

My only hope is that that the Cubs too can make it across the finish line (World Series) in my lifetime as my passion for the Cubs is even stronger than it is for the Pack. Oh, how it pains me to enjoy the winning of the Pack but not get the same sense of joy from 50+ years from our Cubs. I hope this post-corporate ownership era will put an end to Cub futility.

GO CUBS!!

I can't wait for 2008!

by LAcarl519 on Jan 17, 2008 7:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Let's let the Packer Nut-jobs

enjoy life for a few days. Then they, and their ancient mariner quarterback will be crushed like a bug, and then swept underneath cheese curds.

Did I say I despise the Packers with every inch of my being?

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jan 17, 2008 8:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow, you sound like a Padres fan

Would have thought you'd have more perspective considering the abuse you get from them.

Folks, not all GB fans are nut jobs. Although, it is annoying to watch a Milwaukee newscast: Packers, Favre, weather, 1 or 2 news items, then sports.

Hey, that idiot in Pardeeville is no more representative of us in Wisconsin or Packer fans than Ronnie Woo is of Cubs fans. OK?

by Shanghai Badger on Jan 17, 2008 10:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Green Bay News

Hey, the news out of green bay either doesn't have any news in it, or it is about some ice-fishing/deer hunting/snow mobile accident, but, mostly just packers.

Hell, our local Fox affiliate decided not to broadcast its normal Seinfeld rerun on Saturday... Trying to "get in the head" of Eli Manning (I guess it is his favorite show). Ugh.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Jan 18, 2008 7:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Seinfeld

That's just gamesmanship . . .nothing worse than you'd see in other cities.

Sadly, there are idiots that will call the visiting team's hotel, harass family members, etc. -- and that's for all teams in all sports.

by Shanghai Badger on Jan 18, 2008 8:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

...and someone, don't know who

is sending Eli the entire 9-season set of DVD's to him today. Heard it on Mike & Mike but don't remember their name(s).

Our grandparents used to say, "I hope the Cubs win the Series before I die". Now the teenagers are saying it.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 18, 2008 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Stay classy San Diego!

...you make it hard for me to cheer for the Bolts this weekend. ;-)

I can't wait for 2008!

by LAcarl519 on Jan 18, 2008 1:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

derosa is exactly right.

the only reason to bring in roberts would be to get soriano out of the leadoff spot. as cwyers and others have proved that soriano should stay there, we don't need roberts. i'd much rather have derosa. find a switch-hitting shortstop. or let's hope pie progresses rapidly and can move into the 2-hole.

i really think derosa was our most valuable player last year, and I hope management hasn't done anything to create a rift.

"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie

by buckmulligan on Jan 17, 2008 9:01 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

DeRo vs Roberts

I was surprised last night. After reading the article on Cubs.com regarding his displeasure/uneasiness I checked out his stats versus Roberts. Basically the same for both last year and their careers.
For each player, the numbers are 2007/Career

DeRosa:
BA:293/278
OBP:371/341
Slug:420/408

Roberts:
BA:290/281
OBP:377/351
Slug:432/409

Pretty darn similar. Sure, Roberts steals a ton more bases than DeRosa and is a switch hitter. Both advantages, plus he is two years younger. If I had a choice between 2B, Roberts is an easy choice. But if that choice means sitting DeRosa on the bench and giving up some good young players, the trade frankly doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Plus, because the Cubs lack a good 3B backup, DeRosa does become difficult to trade away since ARam is unlikely to play more than 140 or so games.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Jan 17, 2008 9:38 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Versatility and depth...

The argument in favor of Roberts is not that he's a huge upgrade over DeRosa at the plate. The argument is that he provides a top-of-the-order base stealing threat, another LH bat (actually a switch-hitter).

And, not least importantly, it frees DeRosa up to be the super-utility guy. It makes our lineup better and our bench much better.

And, apparently it's what Lou wants to do (he's openly discussed getting faster, more left-handed, and having DeRosa be a utility guy).

by SouthernCub on Jan 17, 2008 9:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Re:

Certainly, as I said before, I would take Roberts over DeRosa as my 2B for the reasons you stated.

I would argue though that the improvement to the bench will not be all that much.

Superutility guys make sens on teams where more than one position needs to be filled, but frankly, DeRosa's 4 main positions (2B, 3B, LF, RF) will all be populated by true regulars, not guys who are going to be sitting regularly.

Sure, it is nice to have a back up, but I would be very concerned about having DeRosa on the bench too much and thus having his numbers slide.

To me, if you bring in Roberts, DeRosa should be dealt, and a backup 3B should be brought in. I would not be opposed to that, but frankly, it seems like alot of dominoes to line up.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Jan 17, 2008 9:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You're assuming there are no injuries...

I suspect that one of the reasons Piniella wants more/better depth is because of injury risk and fatigue. I think Lou intends on regularly resting his star players, and he wants a strong versatile bench player to do that.

Additionally, we need depth in case of injury. As the 2006 example should illustrate, you can't just have 8 regulars and no bench strength. I expect that, one way or another, DeRosa will see 80+ starts next year even if we get Roberts. If he doesn't, then we've been very fortunate with regard to injuries.

by SouthernCub on Jan 17, 2008 10:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

and think the most important thing is for Hendry to do all he can to win in the near term. If you can improve your club (and I think Roberts does), you don't hesitate because someone else will get less AB's.

I view this the same way I do the Soriano leadoff debate; you do what is best for the team, not what is best for an individual player.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jan 17, 2008 10:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly!

Well said; team above individuals.

If Jim doesn't think Roberts will help he wouldn't be trying to go that direction.

Same for pitching. Cubs can't keep holding prospects. That's why they're called what they're called. Sometimes it goes beyond prospects to get proven veterans. Young but still under control of the team guys (e.g. 0-3 guys).

Our grandparents used to say, "I hope the Cubs win the Series before I die". Now the teenagers are saying it.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 17, 2008 10:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

team vs individual

I fully agree, this isn't about just getting DeRosa at bats though. If you look at the stats posted above, these guys are basically the same player with a few differences, most notably the number of stolen bases and switch hitting capabilities.

If we remember that the Cubs problems last year were against LHP, I am not sure that having our offense become MORE left handed is as critical as it might seem.

Again, though, I need to emphasize that to me this isn't about being pro-DeRosa, more a realization that if the Cubs are going to bring in Roberts, they should do their best to trade DeRosa, to at least partially recoup the valuable prospects that they lost.

Basically, the bevy of prospects that Hendry would need to give up for Roberts, to me, are not worth the extra 30 or so steals the Cubs would gain.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Jan 17, 2008 12:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If Andy is asking for the moon

you pass on the deal. With that said, you are going to have to give up quality to get a player like Roberts.

IMO, offensive versatility was the achilles heel of the Cubs in 07. If they want to creat more offense with speed etc., Roberts is a much better fit than DeRosa. I have nothing against DeRosa and he is a good player, but Roberts adds a dimension that the club desperately needs.

One other important point; the Cubs window to win with their core group of players is now, and that window won't be open forever. I wouldn't hesitate to give up some quality to get a guy that could really solidify your lineup.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jan 17, 2008 12:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Versatility - i.e. speed

I have another concern. Basically, Roberts greatest asset over DeRosa is speed. However, the Cubs, for whatever reason, did a poor job of taking advantage of the speed they did have last year. I know a big part of that was Soriano's injury, but overall, SBs were down for the club.

Why? Would Roberts fall prey to the same problem?

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Jan 17, 2008 1:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The window is now...

and we currently have several prospects blocked for the next several years. Colvin is blocked by Pie, Fukudome for 4 years and Soriano for 7 years. Patterson is blocked by the entire OF (if he's an OF) and DeRosa for two years (if he's a 2B).

In terms of pitching, Gallagher and Marshall are blocked by Marquis and Lieber this year (unless Marquis is magically traded there's only one spot next year for a starter. And we do have depth at pitching prospects right now, albeit not in AAA/MLB.

With our window being now, it might not be as bad an idea to trade for an impact player now. The key is identifying that impact player.

by SouthernCub on Jan 17, 2008 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly...

This "hold onto prospects" mentality will not help unless they're in position to play.

Look, I like a lot of these guys but would you rather have that possibility of greatness (e.g. Santana) or Santana. To a lesser scale, would you rather have a good upside potential or a proven guy (e.g. Roberts or Bedard)?

The team as constructed today, right now, Lieber obviously included could win the division and with a little margin. Can they beat SD, LA, AZ (that one scares me) and NYM to even get to the series? I wouldn't be betting my paycheck on that.

I'm willing to give up young guys to get proven guys. Some here have Pie penciled in at CF. Really? Have they seen something this fall that I haven't? Is this kid going to live up to the 5-tool billing or will he be another Corey? Willing to bet on him? I'm not.

I got flamed for Lofton. Look at his '07 numbers. Think they'd be good for the Cubs in '08? That's the cheap fallback (no trade, he's a FA) in dealing Pie in a Bedard deal.

Hell, I'm willing to see a good portion of the future mortgaged if it means Santana.

But there are those [here] who are apparently much smarter than I in saying that cannot possibly happen. Not in a hundred years (no pun).

Our grandparents used to say, "I hope the Cubs win the Series before I die". Now the teenagers are saying it.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 17, 2008 1:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Colvin

is not blocked by Pie. Pie is not in a position to block anyone yet.

Pie is getting the first shot at the CF job. If he produces and hangs on to the job, then yes, Colvin will be blocked. The Cubs will then have to decide between keeping Colvin or keeping Pie.

But until Pie proves he can handle CF on an everyday basis, the position is still open for anyone from the minors. Colvin is our insurance if Pie fails.

Stay tuned for complete coverage of BABYWATCH 2008!

by Josh77 on Jan 17, 2008 7:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, but at the same time...

...a trade of Marshall and Gallagher shorts your rotation depth, and it's not like we don't have someone that could sub in at second if DeRosa is needed elsewhere. We're the Cubs. We have spare second basemen. It's not exactly a position of need.

Doubly true if it takes Pie. Then, heck with depth - who do we START in center field?

And... don't say Sam Fuld. I would prefer not to have an anyeurism this morning.

I would suggest you learn to truly interrupt all stats before using any selective stats. -- cubswin

by cwyers on Jan 17, 2008 10:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm guessing you answered your

own CF question in paragraph one of your post. If you can talk about whether he can play SS, then he probably has the coordination to play CF.

by N Oakley on Jan 17, 2008 11:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

...wait.

You want to trade for Roberts so that DeRosa can be our starting center fielder?!?

I would suggest you learn to truly interrupt all stats before using any selective stats. -- cubswin

by cwyers on Jan 17, 2008 11:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I didn't even imply that.

You said there were other 2B options in the organization if Derosa was needed elsewhere and you were then looking for an idea what could be done if Pie struggles other than inserting the mystical pinch running abilities of Sam Fuld in CF.

Truth is, I want Roberts and believe he would upgrade the team by playing 2B and having Derosa as the baskeball equal to a 6th man. I don't like picking him up at the price of Pie, Hill and Marshall.

I don't believe Roberts is much, if any, of a fielding upgrade, but I value his bat as a certified lead off asset to force Lou to move Soriano down in the order.

I've seen your analysis of why Soriano is valuable in the lead off spot, however, I like the old concept of a lead off guy taking pitches at the top of the order to let the 3, 4, 5 guys study the pitcher.

by N Oakley on Jan 17, 2008 11:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Let's back up a second.

The Orioles have said they want Pie or Colvin for Roberts.

Some people are fine with that.

So... if the Cubs trade Pie for Roberts, we lose our starting center fielder, and gain our fourth or fifth second baseman. He'd be our best second baseman, but the difference in quality between DeRosa and Roberts is, if you ask me, smaller than the difference between Pie and Fuld.

I would suggest you learn to truly interrupt all stats before using any selective stats. -- cubswin

by cwyers on Jan 17, 2008 12:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree...

I might be in favor of trading for Roberts, at the right price. I'd probably be okay with trading a package involving Colvin for Roberts, but not a package involving Pie.

by SouthernCub on Jan 17, 2008 12:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

As Roberts Watch has dragged on,

there has been much written on what Baltimore would accept for Roberts. Are you saying Pie or Colvin straight up was the last report? I'm okay either way with that or packaged with a pitching prospect not currently competing for the #5 spot or Marmol.

I apologize if I missed the most recent rumor. No sarcasm intended.

If Pie had to be included, it would seem reasonble that either Derosa could try to play CF or be packaged with Marshall for a decent CF option.

by N Oakley on Jan 17, 2008 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Check out the Baltimore Sun...

articles on this. There's been much written.

Take it for what you think its worth but their asking price is much higher than say, Pie for Roberts straight up.

Our grandparents used to say, "I hope the Cubs win the Series before I die". Now the teenagers are saying it.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 17, 2008 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The most recent reports...

...that I have read break the demands coming out of Baltimore like this:

One promising young left-handed center fielder named Pie or Colvin
One stud pitching prospect, likely Gallagher or Veal
At least one other player, possibly Ronny Cedeno

If you give up Pie AND Gallagher, you're not just gutting the farm system, you're starting to gut the 2008 team - Gallagher has a shot at the #5 spot in the rotation, and has to at least be considered the #6 starter in case of an injury at this point. Pie is your starting center fielder. Cedeno currently projects as a utility player, backing up shortstop and center field.

So, that becomes the question. How big of a hole on the current team are you opening up if you do this sort of a deal? Does one of Fukudome/Soriano move over to center, and Murton take over a corner spot? Does (sigh) Sam Fuld join Ryan Theriot in our team's quest to have scrappy, white second-division starters at our premium defensive positions?

It's a lot of chaining that needs to be considered.

I would suggest you learn to truly interrupt all stats before using any selective stats. -- cubswin

by cwyers on Jan 17, 2008 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Replace Pie with Colvin...

and Gallagher with Marshall or Veal. Then the deal neither guts the farm nor guts the 2008 team. And it still meets the alleged criteria discussed.

You seem to be arguing against the idea of any trade for Roberts based on the idea that one possible iteration of the trade is bad for the Cubs. There are other possibilities, it would seem.

by SouthernCub on Jan 17, 2008 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That assumes equal value is placed...

...on them.

Looking at the BA list and the Goldstein list, it's possible that Pie and Gallagher are more valued by the Orioles than Colvin and Veal. I'm not saying they are; the correctness of the valuation almost doesn't matter in this case. It's what Baltimore will and won't do.

So maybe if they take Veal then they want Pie instead of Colvin, and if they take Colvin they want Gallagher over Veal.

I would suggest you learn to truly interrupt all stats before using any selective stats. -- cubswin

by cwyers on Jan 17, 2008 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

My point was...

that the trade doesn't necessarily mean Pie+Gallagher. In fact, that may be the least likely possibility. There were lots of "ORs" in the speculated list, but you were seemingly trying to shoot it down based on only one of the possibilities.

If the deal was Pie+Gallagher+Cedeno for Roberts, I'd say resoundingly "no." If it was Colvin+Veal+Cedeno, I'd probably say "yes." There are lots of other possibilities where I might say "yes" or "no" as well.

by SouthernCub on Jan 17, 2008 2:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

There are a boat load of opportunities

and it doesn't just involve a Roberts trade. There's other trade opportunities, other youngsters, proven guys already on the team that haven't been mentioned and free agents.

I simply do not buy into the notion that acquiring one guy could be so problematic.

Our grandparents used to say, "I hope the Cubs win the Series before I die". Now the teenagers are saying it.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 17, 2008 1:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly.

In Hendry's comments yesterday, he said that he was going to be aggressive the next few weeks (before camp opens) and try to get another starting pitcher. He didn't say how or from whom (I suppose they could be looking at Colon).

I think the Roberts thing is dead, dead, dead. As it should be.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 17, 2008 2:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If Hendry is going to err

I say he should err on the side of giving up more to help now vs not making the move that the team needs to get over the top.

Again, the window for this core group is ticking as we speak, and he is right when he says to be aggressive.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jan 17, 2008 2:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Where did he say "starter?"

He said he was going to be aggressive and try to add "someone else."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3199601

He didn't specify that it would be a starter.

If I were a betting man, I'd bet that was in reference to Roberts.

I'd certainly not be surprised if we don't wind up with Roberts. But I'd be shocked if the Roberts angle is "dead, dead, dead."

by SouthernCub on Jan 18, 2008 6:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I can't remember...

... where I saw this, or I'd post a link. Methinks it was in the Sun-Times or Tribune, but the implication from the way the article I saw was written, was that he was going after another starter.

I agree that the ESPN article isn't written that way, but the one I saw was.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 18, 2008 10:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Found the link!!

It was in yesterday's Sun-Times:

"We're trying to get as much volume as we can, depth-wise, into the rotation," general manager Jim Hendry said. "We're going be real aggressive the next three or four weeks before camp and try to come up with somebody else that can help us."

Now, that sure sounds to me like he's looking for pitching. The ESPN article took the quote out of context.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 18, 2008 10:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Even in that article though...

the writers allude to the possibility of a Roberts trade. I'd say the possibility is not dead.

Is it likely? Maybe not. But I'd guess it's not dead yet.

by SouthernCub on Jan 18, 2008 10:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Point taken.

But wouldn't you agree that the quote you mention was taken out of context?

I'm moving this discussion to the front page.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 18, 2008 10:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Nope...

... one more thing to add is that Piniella will want to get a day off to each of Soriano, Fukudome, Ramirez and Lee per week or so. That's 4 games per week or so, while others would be playing 5. Almost full-time for DeRosa there.

I am hearing conflicting reports re: DeRosa's "role". When we signed him, I recall hearing Hendry say he was going to be the everyday 2B. I knew that DeRosa was playing backup roles before, and he was looking for the opportunity to have an everyday starting position. It wasn't until this off season started that I started hearing/reading terms like "the super-sub role is what we brought him in to do", etc.

Which one is it? Perhaps it was both, but last year there was a gaping hole at 2B. If this position would be filled by someone else, he would revert back to the super-sub role...

This is the Cubs new #1!

by initram on Jan 17, 2008 10:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

One day per week?!?

There is simply no way that Lee, Ramirez, Fukudome, Roberts, or Soriano are going to have a day off per week. Perhaps if you are banged up/hurt, but frankly, you don't play All-Star caliber players to play 140 games per year without any injuries!

On top of that, DeRosa isn't the only player to be competing for the backup roles there, you will need to get guys like Murton and Ward some starts as well to keep their bats fresh. Additionally, Murton and Ward are nearly as good, if not better, options as reserves in the corner OF and at 1B.

Again, I am not getting emotionally attached to DeRosa. I am just saying that it makes no sense to give up a bunch of talent for Roberts (he clearly is not being given away) to duplicate the talent of DeRosa. If we could subsequently trade DeRosa and also bring in someone else who can back up 3B and PH, I would be thrilled.

furthermore, I think it is naive to assume that DeRosa will continue to have the success that he has had over the last two years if he is left to fight for whatever playing time scraps he can fight for.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Jan 17, 2008 12:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I remember something about Lou saying

that he wanted to give the starters one day off a week to keep them fresh and not worn out for the sept/oct run. Have one sit a day with DeRosa filling in and the team stays rested and healthy. 162 games is a lot of wear and tear...

"Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?"

by Jettero2112 on Jan 17, 2008 8:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

How about those Pats fans

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/sports/15033070/detail.html#

by trigorin6 on Jan 17, 2008 9:48 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

That is SO weird.

The guy's getting a Pats helmet tattooed on his head. From the link:

House of Tattoo artist Gary Laroche has been working on the tattoo. Thompson had one side done on New Year's Eve.

"He's kind of off the wall," Laroche said.

Um, yep.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 17, 2008 10:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Watch the Pats

change their logo next year.

"In all the categories that you pay the most attention to, except the loss column, we're doing very well" - Jim Hendry

by Jayo525 on Jan 17, 2008 11:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I remember..

a couple of years ago, when Buck Rogers was the GM of the Daytona Cubs...he was giving out lifetime season tickets to whoever got the D-Cubs logo tatooed on themselves at a local tatoo parlor. IIRC..there were a couple of people who took him up on the offer and got the lifetime season tickets. I wonder how that is going over in the years since he left the team.

Kasey

See the Cubs 2008 schedule at http://ignarski.tripod.com/sched2008.html

by kaseyi on Jan 17, 2008 11:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Reason #472 to fear the Cardinals...

Saw this gem in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch:

"Two-time MVP Juan Gonzalez is seeking another swing at a comeback after nearly three years since his last at-bat, and the Cardinals have discussed extending him an invitation to spring training. Gonzalez, 38, has been working out at Eduardo Perez's Winter Training Program in Puerto Rico. The Cardinals, intrigued by descriptions of Gonzalez's workouts, are exploring the possibility of signing the former All-Star outfielder, but a source cautioned that no deal is completed."

http://tinyurl.com/334c8l

My favorite part? He's working out at the "Eduardo Perez's Winter Training Program". I don't know why but that just cracks me up. Now if it was the Julio Franco training program, different story...

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jan 17, 2008 10:52 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

haha

i lauged to myself when I read "Eduardo Perez's Winter Training Program". not sure why, ha i guess it just doesnt exactly sound like the worlds greatest training program.

Bill James Felix Pie 2008 Projection: .283/.333/.456 16 HR 21 SB

by kylejo on Jan 17, 2008 11:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

My biggest concern....

about the whole Roberts scenario--and someone may have brought this up already--is that they could potentially be messing with a team and clubhouse that seemed to have great chemistry last year. As I have said many times, I have nothing against Roberts, and I would actually like to have his speed and switch-hitting bat. I also like DeRosa a lot and I'm fine with him as the everyday second baseman. I also don't think Roberts is worth depleting the farm system of all the best pitching prospects, either.

Quick example: Spring Training, 2004. On paper, the Cubs were much stronger than in '03 after getting Derrek Lee, Todd Walker, and Michael Barrett. But all the great chemistry guys and clubhouse leaders like Kenny Lofton, Erik Karros, and Damien Miller (guys who were not the best players on the '03 team, but were quality guys, and veteran leaders) were gone. If guys like that had been there in '04, I guarantee you all the crap that happened that year would have been a non-issue, and the Cubs probably make the playoffs again. As it was, the Cubs had no leaders, and Dusty certainly couldn't handle it, and we all know what happened.

Extreme example, I know, but something to keep in mind. That's one of the reasons I like the Lieber signing is he has a reputation as a great teammate and great clubhouse guy, and I think he can help the young pitchers a lot. DeRosa is that way too--a guy you want on your team because of his intangibles, along with what he does on the field. Off the field, I don't know much about Roberts (except for one little tidbit of info that we all heard about recently). I'm sure Hendry has thought of all this and I'm probably stressing over nothing. Just something to think about.

"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Jan 17, 2008 11:31 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Chemistry

That "chemistry" argument kinda falls apart when one considers that the '04 Cubs won more games than the '03 Cubs.

by davearm on Jan 17, 2008 11:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Today's rumors...

HEard on ESPN 1000, BY ME, Bruce Levine reported that Cubs are interested in Marlon Byrd. I find this a bit unusual in that he signed a new deal w/Tejas yesterday...FWIW

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Jan 17, 2008 11:36 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Did he really

say that, after the guy signed with another team?

Levine is usually on top of things, but he does try too hard to scoop everybody else, and he ends up making mistakes.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jan 17, 2008 11:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Byrd wasn't a free agent.

The Rangers and Byrd simply settled on a contract rather than going in front of an arbiter. So the Cubs couldn't have signed him, and the Rangers could still deal him.

I would suggest you learn to truly interrupt all stats before using any selective stats. -- cubswin

by cwyers on Jan 17, 2008 12:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yep.

Cwyers, stat-head and contact expert. Thanks! ;-)

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Jan 17, 2008 12:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

In other Packers news...

...the Fox station in Green Bay is cancelling the Seinfeld reruns Saturday night, because it's Eli Manning's favorite show.

I may actually have to actively cheer for the Giants now. Wow.

I would suggest you learn to truly interrupt all stats before using any selective stats. -- cubswin

by cwyers on Jan 17, 2008 2:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Geez

Get a life Green Bay, I know you love your Packers, but settle down

by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Jan 17, 2008 4:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't forsee that happening.

What people have to understand is that, from the 2006 Census, Green Bay's Metropolitan Survey Area had 299,003 people.

For comparison:

Peoria, IL: 370,194
Cedar Rapids, IA: 249,320
Quad Cities: 377,291
Rockford, IL: 348,252

To put that into baseball terms: Rockford has a Frontier League team; the rest of them all have Low-A teams in the Midwest League. It's seriously like slapping an MLB franchise into the middle of one of those places.

It's sort of like how a black hole distorts gravity around itself - or how a college can distort a smaller town. I take it everyone's been in or around a college town before, right? And how crazy it is?

Nobody ever matriculates from Green Bay.

It's as though you got to stay in the frat house forever.

They're not going to stop the crazy. It's not possible.

I would suggest you learn to truly interrupt all stats before using any selective stats. -- cubswin

by cwyers on Jan 17, 2008 4:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It's as if the Bears never moved out

of Decatur. That market should have lost its' team decades, and decades ago. Outside of playing in the over-rated stadium -- teams hate going there. The team hotel is a cut above a Motel 6. (A friend of mine used to sell hotel supplies to 'hotels' (That's if you can classify lodging in Green Bay as 'hotels') in Northern Wisconsin. Teams either fly into Milwaukee or Chicago and take the boring bus ride north. (No wonder the Packers win, Wisconsin bores the players into a coma.) Rarely, do teams fly into Green Bay.

Green Bay? The NFL's version of Tank-Town USA.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jan 17, 2008 8:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And as the late, great, Mike Royko would say

San Diego is nothing but fern bars.

by Shanghai Badger on Jan 17, 2008 10:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

...and as Dan Hampton would say

"Green Bay, the mecca of civilization".

They're psycho up there 'cuz there is nothing else to do but sit in a bar or ice fish. Not that there's anything wrong with either of those.

I consider Packer fans in the purest definition of fan; fanatic. Too often today we confuse "fan" with "attendee". Wanna see attendees, go to a Bulls game. Unfortunately there's too many of them at Clark and Addison also.

And another thing, what is a casual fan? Sounds like contradiction of terms. Fan is short for fanatic, period.

I disagree with Lambeau being over-rated. I wish we had the mystique of a place like that on our lakefront. Nooooo, we [chi-town] have the collision of 2 shiny toilet seats.

OMG, Soldier Field was stripped of its landmark status 'cuz of the renovations. Great, and drop the seating capacity too, now there's no real existing stadium for the olympic opening/closing ceremonies if the '16 summer games come here; great vision.

And I don't even want to compare that with S.Cal. Down there they don't cheer unless the scoreboard tells them to. They arrive late, leave early and look for the Perrier & Sushi bar. The old LA Forum was the best example of that. I dreaded going there for a 'Hawks game.

Our grandparents used to say, "I hope the Cubs win the Series before I die". Now the teenagers are saying it.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 18, 2008 7:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed! Lambeau still

has the feel of a major college stadium. Look at how many players/teams have copied the "Lambeau leap," that was born in Green Bay.

You can't beat the atmosphere. You also have to credit some of it to Favre who still plays the game like a kid. He is the perfect quarterback for that environment.

Yes, there are some goofball fans in Green Bay. It is a small town. But that college town feel makes it feel less professional, for the No Fun League (NFL).

I think the NFL would really prefer Green Bay in the Super Bowl over the Giants...how often would ANY professional sports league be "hoping" for a 250,000 person SMSA to defeat the New York metro area to make it to the Super Bowl?

I can't wait for 2008!

by LAcarl519 on Jan 18, 2008 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Team Hotel

Actually, the teams don't even stay in Green Bay, they stay in downtown Appleton (45 minute drive from Lambeau).

I was walking by the hotel the Seahawks stayed in last weekend as the team was trickling out to go get dinner. I couldn't help but wonder what they thought, a year before they were playing in Chicago, probably at some MI AVE hotel, this year, College Ave in Downtown Appleton!

I think it is truly phenomenal that the Packers have stayed in Green Bay. A city that doesn't have even a true minor league team in any other sport (Appleton is home of the WI T-Ratts). I don't think any other pro-sports city is so much of a 1-sport town.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Jan 18, 2008 7:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

DeRosa

When you are trying to win a championship for the first time in 100 years, I think as a GM, you have to do what you think will give your team the best opportunity to do that. I don't think many people would argue that bringing Brian Roberts aboard would greatly help this team's chances...I wish DeRosa could set his ego aside a little bit and think bigger, as far as what a trade like that would do for the overall good of the squad. Still would love to see DeRosa find playing time if we picked up Roberts, and with injuries and other factors, I'm sure he'd still bat 300-350 times.

"Best comedian you never heard of"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS6I3iBivUo

by varsho1 on Jan 17, 2008 2:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I like the Rosey comments

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/rosenblog/2008/01/and-these-are-t.html

..and await the flaming of how he too is a bad sports guy for thinking outside the box; an me too for agreeing with him.

Our grandparents used to say, "I hope the Cubs win the Series before I die". Now the teenagers are saying it.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 17, 2008 3:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

If you are talking about the insane parent...

I agree with you. "Political correctness," as was referred to in an earlier post, has NOTHING to do with this kind of nuttiness.

"Confidence is what you have before you understand the problem." Woody Allen

by BlueSox on Jan 17, 2008 6:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I swear.

Not all of us Packers fans are completely bat(censored) insane.

Now, I am. Just in a way that has nothing to do with sports.

Before each game, please remember to feed the bats.

by Cool Hand on Jan 17, 2008 3:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I saw that Green Bay Fox piece.

But I can't root for the Giants, either. They're from New York.

Can I root for a snowout?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 17, 2008 7:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Snowout

Those snow games look awesome in HD!

by LT on Jan 17, 2008 7:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

True.

No snow in GB on Sunday, but damn cold:

Sunday: Mostly sunny and cold, with a high near 6.

Sunday Night: Mostly cloudy, with a low around -2.

The NFC is the late game, so it'll be colder rather than warmer. Brrrrr.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 17, 2008 8:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It's balmy compared

to the ice bowl in '67 against the Cowboys.

Here's some history I think others may know. The only snow-out in [NFL] history that I know of, well kind of?

The 1932 NFL championship. Wrigley was so frozen over, they played at CHICAGO STADIUM. OK I'm totally biased towards the place that used to reside at 1800 W. Madison.

The Bears beat Portsmouth 9-0. Ironically, that game spear-headed a game rule change. Up to that time, the ball was put into the next play where the previous play stopped, including out of bounds. On out of bounds plays, the ball was put in play a yard from the sideline. Since they played the game indoors at the Stadium and the out of bounds were right up near seating areas (not all the box seats, club circle and mezzanine seats were permanant at that time). Every time a play ended up out of bounds, they moved the ball to about 10 yards inside the boundry for the next play. That evolved to the inside-the-hash-marks-rule we all now see today.

Our grandparents used to say, "I hope the Cubs win the Series before I die". Now the teenagers are saying it.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 18, 2008 8:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

As a Lions fan, I've been cussing Favre

for years now. Can't root for them and won't ever root for a New York team. Gonna be tough in the Super Bowl because I'm not a big fan of the AFC. I suppose I can root for the Pack if they make it but would have to root for NE/SD if the Giants win.

FIRE MILLEN!!

"Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?"

by Jettero2112 on Jan 17, 2008 8:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow!

Not a single post about the Shark throwing a splitter? Big guy, big hands, it could work. What he was missing most of all last year was a strikeout pitch. If he developed his change and slider a bit, and can get the splitter to work, he could improve quickly.

Wonder if he was discouraged from throwing it by the Cubs, but went back to it when he was training on his own?

Free the upper deck!

by zambranofan on Jan 17, 2008 4:56 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I would guess

nobody posted anything about it because it is likely that Shark will be throwing that splitter in the minors for at least another year. Though I do think it's interesting. I've never liked the contract that guy got. There's just no good reason to give a guy more money to keep him from football. Pay him what his skills merit and let whatever happens happen. I'm sure there was someone with similar upside that wouldn't have cost as much because we didn't have to persuade him to play baseball full-time.

All that being said, I wish the guy the best of luck. It'd be great to have another quality arm in the rotation that doesn't cost more than $10mil.

"Look, what's important is to be in first place on the last day of the season." -Lou 8/1/07

by 26.2cubfan on Jan 17, 2008 6:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You're absolutely right.

There were draft picks that would have required less money and had similar high upside.

The catch is... all of them got drafted before the fifth round at the 149th pick of the draft. And since we lost our second, third and fourth round picks that year, we didn't have a chance to draft any of them.

So, if you're a club like the Cubs that has money to burn, doesn't have draft picks, and has a pretty bare farm system, you can:

Stand on priciple, declare that there's no way the kids earn this kind of money, and devote yourself to sucking.
Try to find a diamond in the rough that everybody missed until the late rounds.
Use your money to just buy up the young talent other teams can't or won't pay for, like the real big-market teams do.

One is stupid, two is getting more and more difficult. Three may piss off some curmudgeons, but quite frankly I'm 100% in favor of it.

I would suggest you learn to truly interrupt all stats before using any selective stats. -- cubswin

by cwyers on Jan 17, 2008 6:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Dome's response to what Lou said

Chicago resident journalist Kyoko Umeda reported Dome's response to what Lou said in the article "Notes: Fukudome's slot still in question". He is currently staying in Hawaii for training with a couple of former teammates.

"I totally don't care about where I will hit in the lineup. 2nd or 5th? I hit 2nd in my rookie season with Dragons (1999, 50 games, playing shortstop etc), so it wouldn't be any problem.
I am very happy to hear Lou is reasonably expecting me to play well with the club"

Not in the article, Lou said "Somewhat I anticipate is Dome's fielding in RF - Wrigley is natural grass field, no roof, mostly daylight games and ivy on the wall. He's mostly played on artificial turf in Japan, so it may take some time to get used to it".
Dome didn't respond on this in the article, but he repeating said he's never worried about fielding outfield at Wrigley and other US ballparks at all (than hitting), and I don't believe it will be problem at all either, per his 4-times Gold Glove winning skills and experiences.

by dragonsfanatic on Jan 17, 2008 7:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs