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Thursday Morning Headlines

Fontenot_hamster_tiny by cwyers on

Well, with the baseball season approaching - less than a month until pitchers and catchers report - the engines of the writers are starting to warm up again. Nothing too exciting, yet. But some interesting notes.

Jeff Samardzija plans on reporting to camp Jan. 24th - about a week from now, and three weeks early. He started his training program in November, apparently.

Cubs pitching coach Larry Rothschild is realistic about Samardzija's chances of making a quantum leap to the big club after only one full year in the minors.

"Right now it would be a push. But I would love to see him compete and have us start thinking that maybe he can do it," Rothschild said. "There is a learning curve and he is still in the middle of it. But all the pieces are there: the ability, the makeup, the competitiveness, so it's just a matter of time.

"If that time is now, that would be great. If it's not, that's OK."

...

Samardzija has added a split-finger pitch to his repertoire.

"I didn't really throw a splitter last year, which I do have," he said. "My changeup is coming along. It's nice to have this extra two or three months to work on your changeup and slider."

Do I think anything will come of it? Quite frankly, not a whole lot. But it's nice to see that sort of dedication, at least.

Lou doesn't much care about the 100 years thing. Chris DeLuca also says that the Cubs could move Fukudome into center if Pie strugles; presumably Murton or (shudder) Ward would move to right field. He doesn't give any indication if this is something he heard or speculation on his part. [If you were wondering - Murton/Ward? Entirely speculation on my part.]

Less speculative - Lou says Fukudome could hit second or fifth. Oh, and this will suprise you - Mark DeRosa isn't 100% thrilled by the efforts to replace him.

The Lieber says he finished his rehab in October, and is fully functional. Here's hoping.

[editor's note, by Al] I haven't done this in a while, but cwyers' diary was, well, pretty much what I was going to do this morning -- a headline post, with pretty much the same headlines I was going to post. So, I'm moving it to the front page. There's only one other news item I wanted to call people's attention to:

A 36-year-old Pardeeville man accusing of tying up his 7-year-old son with tape Saturday after the boy refused to wear a Green Bay Packers sweatshirt during the divisional playoff game against Seattle said the incident was a joke that "got blown way out of proportion." Matthew Kowald was arrested Monday on tentative felony charges of causing mental harm to a child and false imprisonment, but was issued only a disorderly conduct citation for the incident. What is with those Packers fans?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation, Bleed Cubbie Blue, or Al Yellon, editor-in-chief. FanPost opinions are, however, valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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I like DeRosa
but he needs to keep quiet until the Cubs offically add another 2nd baseman. DeRosa was very good last year, and deserves to have a everyday job next year.(one reason I'm not crazy about getting Roberts) But he is coming off as a pretty big whinner right now. You don't say what about me, were am I going to play kind of stuff.  He should just say I'm not sure whats going to happen, but I'm willing to do whatever the Cubs ask me to do. Then privately go to Hendry or Piniella and tell them his concerns.

I'm not saying DeRosa is wrong for feeling the way he is. The guy was stuck as a bench player his whole career, and finally improved enough to be a everyday player. So after coming off a good season It must suck possibly losing your starting job. I could only imagine what all these Roberts on the verge of coming to the Cubs rumors are doing to DeRosa. But he needs to stop making those type of comments in the media, or fans will turn on him quick.

I just hope this Roberts stuff is over soon either he's on the Cubs or lets plan on DeRosa on being the everyday guy at second.

by cubsfan25 on Jan 17, 2008 1:15 AM CST   0 recs

Todd Walker, I mean Derosa does....
.....needs to shut his yap. It is part of the job, these "rumors". If he doesn't like it, he can try working a 40 hour job with a half hour lunch break.

 The only thing he can control is getting ready for the season and being ready to play wherever the Cubs choose to play him. If you're going to play the game of Baseball for a living and get payed Millions of dollars, you better have thick skin and especially need to stop whining to the Chicago media if you're feelings get hurt. Unless you want to come across as a big baby.

 

I reject your reality and substitute my own. ` Adam Savage Mythbusters

by lemon20pie on Jan 17, 2008 1:36 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Derosa is no Todd Walker.
As for his attitude and this report, well... I'm a little glad to see he's upset about the prospect of losing playing time.  Though he didn't phrase it particularly well, I imagine his intentions are probably something less nefarious and selfish than "I want to be important."  

I kind of see it as him being more confident in his abilities after a good year last year as the primary 2B, combined with a desire to contribute.  Should he have paid lip service to the club and said, "I'll do anything they want me to?"  Probably.  But let's not forget that the guy actually DID do everything asked of him, without complaint, last year.

by daubs on Jan 17, 2008 7:38 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Todd Walkier?!
C'Mon, Pie - you're pushing it a bit there aren't you?
Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Jan 17, 2008 7:48 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Walkier=
Walker
Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Jan 17, 2008 7:49 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

For New Year
I'm wishing for an edit button on the new BCB website.  If not, there will be mutanity.
"Trapled moss on your souls; changes all you're a part; seen it all, not at all; can't defend a (Cubs fan)"- pearl jam

by section229beer on Jan 17, 2008 2:33 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

The only thing they have in common
The only thing they have in common is both men are incredibly hot.

Todd Walker was constantly mouthing off.  He'd stop people in the street to do so.

DeRosa has made comments twice.

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Jan 17, 2008 7:55 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

No harm in wanting to keep your job.
I don't have a problem with Derosa expressing his concerns at all.  (And I had a problem with signing him to be a starter, LOL!)  He played great, not HOF great, but for him he had a great season and gave the Cubs all they could have hoped for in 2007.  It's the off-season and roster decisions are the focus and to me it's reasonable to want to know how you'll be used in the event that you are replaced in one of your main roles.

When I saw some of the players that the Os wanted for Roberts I was hoping that it would die.  Hopefully it has or they lower their demands to something commensurate with Roberts' age and non-roid/HGH production capabilities.  Of course maybe the Cubs would ship guys who were inflated by roids and HGH so it all comes out in the wash?  Everyone drops to a lower level...

Regarding the other topics, the 100 year thing is real in that it apparently has mental effect.  To me you have to have a team that is really lucky and/or loaded in talent.  The players here seem to let it show that they are mentally bothered by the pressure.  It's not a curse, it's mental stress.  

The Packers fan and his parenting skills?  I can see where taping your kid up could be a joke.  Kids can do things that can make parents extremely angry--that's part of the reality of parenthood.  Maybe this Packers Parent is a total tool, but I reserve my anger and the long arm of the law for more serious offenses.  So, just one word for Packers Parent Tool from a commercial that he should have memorized by now  --

 "Dude!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

by DudeVf11 on Jan 17, 2008 10:23 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

No where in that article
do I see DeRosa coming off as a 'whiner' but what I do see someone who is confident and believes (just as I think many here do) that his stats and play last year warrant at least a shot at being the starting 2B. This article actually almost reads the same as the interview he gave to ESPN 1000 months ago in which he declared that playing for the Cubs and their fans is like a dream come true. And that in fact he is good friends w/ Roberts and that he would welcome him here though at the same time it would be hard to conceive what his role would be then.  It's not like he's a rookie spouting off but more like a savvy veteran just speaking what he believes to be true. Now I personally don't have a problem w/ Roberts coming over either, I just don't think the starting spot should be handed over to him on silver platter w/o any competition. But, to each their own.
"In all the categories that you pay the most attention to, except the loss column, we're doing very well" - Jim Hendry

by Jayo525 on Jan 17, 2008 10:56 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

EMERGENCY LOCKDOWN MODE!
There are currently reports circulating around the Internets that ESPN 1000 reported that a Roberts deal was done late last night. According to many of those same rumors, ESPN 1000 later retracted (or at least backed off) those reports.

Therefore, I officially declare this to be an Official BCB Emergency.

Please remember these important steps:


  2. Above all else stay calm. Just remember: we are, after all, the Chicago Cubs. We have second basemen like Britney has problems. Someone will be playing second base this season.
  3. Trust no one. If your mother says she loves you, ask your father if he can corroborate.
  4. Remember: if Ken Rosenthal doesn't say it, it probably didn't happen.

We can make it through these difficult times if we band together and remember what's truly important. But vigilance and sacrifice will be necessary. Be always on the alert!

I would suggest you learn to truly interrupt all stats before using any selective stats. -- cubswin

by cwyers on Jan 17, 2008 1:31 AM CST   0 recs

Awesomest post on here in awhile!
 I'm gonna start a diary about this latest earth shattering rumor.
I reject your reality and substitute my own. ` Adam Savage Mythbusters

by lemon20pie on Jan 17, 2008 1:38 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

ESPN 1000
ESPN 1000 reported nothing of the sort.  When this was supposedly said they were broadcasting a Bulls game.  They wouldn't break in to announce a rumor.  Maybe an official release but not a rumor.
We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Jan 17, 2008 7:00 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

By "all over the internet"....
....he meant over on N(ever)S(een)B(ase)B(all)
I reject your reality and substitute my own. ` Adam Savage Mythbusters

by lemon20pie on Jan 17, 2008 7:18 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Also
 If anyone want's to see great comedy, check out the "Roberts" thread over at NSBB under "Transactions".

 It's classic NSBB.

I reject your reality and substitute my own. ` Adam Savage Mythbusters

by lemon20pie on Jan 17, 2008 7:26 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Bedard was apparently traded as well.....
.....last night, to the Mariners.
I reject your reality and substitute my own. ` Adam Savage Mythbusters

by lemon20pie on Jan 17, 2008 2:57 AM CST   0 recs

Disregard
I reject your reality and substitute my own. ` Adam Savage Mythbusters

by lemon20pie on Jan 17, 2008 3:06 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Sports Nite
did a 3 night segment this week on Jeff Samardzija and the training he is doing. On one of them they showed Jeff and Carmen Pignatiello throwing to each other at the Sox/Bulls camp place. I enjoyed seeing what he has been doing to get ready for this season.
"But being a nasty hateful person she can't help herself." KOW

by sue369 on Jan 17, 2008 6:51 AM CST   0 recs

Sounds like he's working hard for sure
 That's always nice to hear.
I reject your reality and substitute my own. ` Adam Savage Mythbusters

by lemon20pie on Jan 17, 2008 7:23 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Anyone else think
DeRo will have an all star year if he is our everyday 2B?

by Rezze21 on Jan 17, 2008 7:15 AM CST   0 recs

certainly possible.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie

by buckmulligan on Jan 17, 2008 9:02 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

No
I think he's much more likely to regress back toward his career norms than he is to take another step forward.  Age and history can't be ignored.  I do not think DeRo will be as good in 2008 as he was in 2007.  I like the guy and all but if he ends up being our super utility guy we'll probably be better off.
I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey

by pageian on Jan 17, 2008 9:17 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

no
id say last season will be the best of his career.  though id bet if he gets another full season under his belt that he gets into double digit homers.
Bill James Felix Pie 2008 Projection: .283/.333/.456 16 HR 21 SB

by kylejo on Jan 17, 2008 11:01 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

The only thing
that Roberts does better then DeRo( IMO ) is steal bases.
 I like DeRosa, hell I would be miffed to if the Roberts rumors, now going on what two months, was constantly in the papers and where every he turned.  I have no problem with him running his mouth a little.
 Hell he had a good, solid year.

by Johnny Callison was a Cub on Jan 17, 2008 7:37 AM CST   0 recs

Why didn't DeRo
address SS?

Hasn't anyone told him that more people lack faith in Theriot than him?  I still think we need DeRo as an everyday player and Theriot needs more of a break.  He is versatile too.

MMMMM...my mother-in-law's homemade ravioli!

by Kinky Reggae on Jan 17, 2008 8:19 AM CST   0 recs

Absolutely agree
I think DeRo is going to regress some next year, but that said he'll still probably hit better than Theriot.  Defense at short should remain the same and Theriot can take over the super-sub position.  Makes absolute sense to me.
I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey

by pageian on Jan 17, 2008 9:20 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

This DeRo thing is being blown out of proportion
He's stating facts and his concern about playing time; nothing wrong with that. Guess he could have done the "no comment" thing. Yup, that would be good, really open up the can of worms. Wonder what the response to that would be. Sounds like good media practice; create controversy.

My view of most of those in the media is if you can't expound on controversy, create it.

There's statements by all parties the relationships are good. DeRo is on the fence. What's he's supposed to say when the media asks him about the Roberts rumors? "I'm totally fine with it. I want another 2B guy here."? If he said that, this site would be crawling with people saying he's a damned liar.

Jim is trying to provide Lou with as much opportunity and flexibility as possible. For the lineup, Roberts I believe fits that mantra.

Our grandparents used to say, "I hope the Cubs win the Series before I die". Now the teenagers are saying it.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 17, 2008 8:23 AM CST   0 recs

Agreed
I've got no problem with a guy stating his opinions honestly.  I get sick of hearing the sound bites and cliches that most of the players use, it's nice to hear one of them speak honestly for a change.
I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey

by pageian on Jan 17, 2008 9:22 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

GMTA
I was going to do a headline post this morning... containing, pretty much, all the headlines you put in this diary. Thanks!

Here's the best quote from the Cubs Caravan article:

"My message first and foremost to my team -- and I've been thinking about that -- is don't put the load of 99 years of not winning on you," Piniella said Wednesday during a Cubs Caravan stop at Harry Caray's. "Worry about this year only. We've got a good ballclub. Don't put any pressure on yourself. Let this team stand on its own merit."

Words to live by.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jan 17, 2008 8:32 AM CST   0 recs

DeRo
Has anyone told him that Roberts was being thought of to play shortstop or have DeRo play short?

by Kchance on Jan 17, 2008 8:45 AM CST   0 recs

I'm sure it's crossed his mind
but he probably doesn't want to offend Theriot, knowing that Theriot would feel the same way that DeRo feels now.  It's not cool to campaign for someone else's job.
I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey

by pageian on Jan 17, 2008 9:24 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Agreed...
He's also friends with Theriot, so he's probably not too excited about his friend potentially losing his job either.

That said, this is a business, and if getting Roberts gives the team a better chance to win a championship, then they're just going to have to deal with it.

(That of course assumes that getting Roberts would make us better, and that we'd be getting Roberts - two big assumptions)

by SouthernCub on Jan 17, 2008 9:37 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

On the Packer fan issue
That kind of thing can happen anywhere. Who knows, in Chicago some guy could use hot glue instead of [duct] tape.

There are several native cheeseheads at my work. We've discussed this already and come to the conclusion that the way of life in GB with football is far and away more intense than it is here in Chi-town.

But of course in this politically correct world we now live in, it'll get so much more coverage than just 20 years ago.

Our grandparents used to say, "I hope the Cubs win the Series before I die". Now the teenagers are saying it.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 17, 2008 8:51 AM CST   0 recs

Not sure about this:
But of course in this politically correct world we now live in, it'll get so much more coverage than just 20 years ago.

I suspect it has much more to do with the existence of the 24-hour news hole.  

Of course, that "Occam's Razor" version of it doesn't really play into anyone's political prejudices, now does it?

by MN exile on Jan 17, 2008 10:00 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Maybe I'm biased....
but I don't think Green Bay loves the Packers any more than Chicago loves the Bears.  You have to remember that the Packers are the only thing within a 200 mile radius of Green Bay.  While Chicago is enjoying the prime days of the baseball season, they are counting down the days to the start of training camp.  I'll give them their props--they're loyal, dedicated fans.  But they are in the middle of nowhere.  What else are they going to do?  
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Jan 17, 2008 11:14 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

exactly
in the middle of nowhere. It's their life, Packer season.

Believe me, I know enough of them. They sound pathetic to us, perhaps.

But think of this. The Cubs were the ONLY thing in town. Granted this 'town' if you count the 6-county area is ~9M population, is much bigger than GB but you have NO other pro sports around.

Our grandparents used to say, "I hope the Cubs win the Series before I die". Now the teenagers are saying it.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 17, 2008 12:46 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I must disagree
Folks, I live in "Packerland" as they call it up here, and there is simply no comparison.  I am not saying that Packer fans are any better or more committed than any other sports teams, but, the level of committment/association is simply out of this world.

Do you want to buy a car?  up here, you head to you local "Packerland Ford Dealer"  Yes, Packerland, is a region.

Do you want hamburger buns on a Sunday?  I hope you don't mind green and gold buns.

In most cases, fans of two different teams are really all that different.  The Packers stand apart though.  Up here it is cultural.  Yeah, there isn't much else going on up here.  Green Bay is a "city" of just a bit over 100,00, and the Pack is just about the only game in town.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Jan 17, 2008 12:58 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Didn't want to make it sound like a slam
but since you disagreed, I must not have written clearly enough.

I totally agree with the culture there. AND THAT IS FINE. Can it be said they're better? Don't know what better really means but they are dedicated.

What's the season ticket waiting list (measured in generations)? About 2.5 now? People leave Packer season tickets in their WILLS.

Talk about dedication. My point of stating earlier was perhaps some of that comes from the fact there are no other pro teams who's season are in full swing when the helmets and pads are hung up for the summer.

Our grandparents used to say, "I hope the Cubs win the Series before I die". Now the teenagers are saying it.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 17, 2008 1:25 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Yeah...
I realized after I posted it that I wasn't so much disagreeing as expanding a bit with some local observation.

Also, I am not really a Packer fan, more of a curious bystander, so no offense taken.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Jan 17, 2008 3:23 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I doubt that
William of Ockham's philosophical leanings have much to do with football, nor with this situation. More likely, we find this type of behavoir apalling, call it out, and then the Evil Media Complex is accused of inflating things. See the media inflation thing isn't the simplest explanation (which Ockahm advocates for with his razor metaphor); rather, it's just a simple explanation. I'm glad we find about these things, and I hope, if a Bears fan should do such a thing, we should find out about it and criticize him/her, as well, and as roundly, as this idiot has been criticized.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jan 17, 2008 10:56 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Missing the point
I was responding to the nonsensical "political correctness" assertion above my comment.  

Do I agree that taping up a kid is appalling?  Of course.  

Do I think reporting it has anything to do with political correctness?  Hardly.

Do I think someone categorizing it as such (the post I was responding to) is both flat-out wrong and, to put it bluntly, rather trollish?  No doubt.

Am I puzzled that people seem to be missing that point?  Apparently...

by MN exile on Jan 19, 2008 4:23 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Childhood summers in Door County
Made me a Packer fan and proud to be one. Of course they
have nothing else in their lives but hey AT LEAST THEY OWN
THE TEAM and it can't threaten to leave town if they don't give
it what it wants. You can watch the local news in the summer
and the headline will be that a reserve right tackle sprained
his thumb fishing in MN but should be ready for camp  which will be followed by a story of the elections, war in Iraq ,stock market falling 500 points, in other words the  less important stuff.
Growing up in Chicago a Packer fan is probably as much fun
as being a Cub fan in Bridgeport ( My sister has still never  forgiven me for filling out her offfice football pool and picking
Miami that week in 85 but hey SHE WON). They are the guys from a small place with  frozen tundra beating the big guys.

GO PACK

"It's the Cubbies. There's always a vibe. It's the greatest vibe in baseball." Greg Maddux on Cub fan's optimism even after the 06 debacle.

by jessica on Jan 17, 2008 2:41 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Jessica: I grew up in the north suburbs
of Chicago, but our family adopted the Packers as "our team" as my dad grew up a Cardinals fan and he was so pissed when the team left Chicago, that he adopted the Packers as his team when he started a business in Green Bay with his best freiend int he early 1960s...

What a time to start being a Packer fan (the great 1960s).  I went to the 1967 Ice Bowl (as an 11 yr old), so how can I be anyting but a Packer fan for life?  

Packer fans are everywhere in America.  Great passion, but many outside of Green Bay seem to be more Favre fans that like Green Bay becasue of him.  The true passionate Packer fan has to have midwest roots.

But I will tell you, it was very lonely wearing those green & gold wool caps to school in the 1970s.  No love. :-)

My only hope is that that the Cubs too can make it across the finish line (World Series) in my lifetime as my passion for the Cubs is even stronger than it is for the Pack.  Oh, how it pains me to enjoy the winning of the Pack but not get the same sense of joy from 50+ years from our Cubs.  I hope this post-corporate ownership era will put an end to Cub futility.

GO CUBS!!

I can't wait for 2008!

by LAcarl519 on Jan 17, 2008 7:15 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Let's let the Packer Nut-jobs
enjoy life for a few days. Then they, and their ancient mariner quarterback will be crushed like a bug, and then swept underneath cheese curds.

Did I say I despise the Packers with every inch of my being?

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jan 17, 2008 8:37 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Wow, you sound like a Padres fan
Would have thought you'd have more perspective considering the abuse you get from them.

Folks, not all GB fans are nut jobs.  Although, it is annoying to watch a Milwaukee newscast:  Packers, Favre, weather, 1 or 2 news items, then sports.

Hey, that idiot in Pardeeville is no more representative of us in Wisconsin or Packer fans than Ronnie Woo is of Cubs fans.  OK?

by Shanghai Badger on Jan 17, 2008 10:31 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Green Bay News
Hey, the news out of green bay either doesn't have any news in it, or it is about some ice-fishing/deer hunting/snow mobile accident,  but, mostly just packers.

Hell, our local Fox affiliate decided not to broadcast its normal Seinfeld rerun on Saturday... Trying to "get in the head" of Eli Manning (I guess it is his favorite show).  Ugh.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Jan 18, 2008 7:36 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Seinfeld
That's just gamesmanship . . .nothing worse than you'd see in other cities.  

Sadly, there are idiots that will call the visiting team's hotel, harass family members, etc. -- and that's for all teams in all sports.

by Shanghai Badger on Jan 18, 2008 8:03 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

...and someone, don't know who
is sending Eli the entire 9-season set of DVD's to him today. Heard it on Mike & Mike but don't remember their name(s).
Our grandparents used to say, "I hope the Cubs win the Series before I die". Now the teenagers are saying it.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 18, 2008 1:27 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Stay classy San Diego!
...you make it hard for me to cheer for the Bolts this weekend.  ;-)
I can't wait for 2008!

by LAcarl519 on Jan 18, 2008 1:22 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

derosa is exactly right.
the only reason to bring in roberts would be to get soriano out of the leadoff spot. as cwyers and others have proved that soriano should stay there, we don't need roberts. i'd much rather have derosa. find a switch-hitting shortstop. or let's hope pie progresses rapidly and can move into the 2-hole.

i really think derosa was our most valuable player last year, and I hope management hasn't done anything to create a rift.

"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie

by buckmulligan on Jan 17, 2008 9:01 AM CST   0 recs

DeRo vs Roberts
I was surprised last night. After reading the article on Cubs.com regarding his displeasure/uneasiness I checked out his stats versus Roberts.  Basically the same for both last year and their careers.
For each player, the numbers are 2007/Career

DeRosa:
BA:293/278
OBP:371/341
Slug:420/408

Roberts:
BA:290/281
OBP:377/351
Slug:432/409

Pretty darn similar.  Sure, Roberts steals a ton more bases than DeRosa and is a switch hitter. Both advantages, plus he is two years younger.  If I had a choice between 2B, Roberts is an easy choice.  But if that choice means sitting DeRosa on the bench and giving up some good young players, the trade frankly doesn't make a whole lot of sense.  

Plus, because the Cubs lack a good 3B backup, DeRosa does become difficult to trade away since ARam is unlikely to play more than 140 or so games.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Jan 17, 2008 9:38 AM CST   0 recs

Versatility and depth...
The argument in favor of Roberts is not that he's a huge upgrade over DeRosa at the plate.  The argument is that he provides a top-of-the-order base stealing threat, another LH bat (actually a switch-hitter).

And, not least importantly, it frees DeRosa up to be the super-utility guy.  It makes our lineup better and our bench much better.

And, apparently it's what Lou wants to do (he's openly discussed getting faster, more left-handed, and having DeRosa be a utility guy).

by SouthernCub on Jan 17, 2008 9:42 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Re:
Certainly, as I said before, I would take Roberts over DeRosa as my 2B for the reasons you stated.

I would argue though that the improvement to the bench will not be all that much.  

Superutility guys make sens on teams where more than one position needs to be filled, but frankly, DeRosa's 4 main positions (2B, 3B, LF, RF) will all be populated by true regulars, not guys who are going to be sitting regularly.

Sure, it is nice to have a back up, but I would be very concerned about having DeRosa on the bench too much and thus having his numbers slide.  

To me, if you bring in Roberts, DeRosa should be dealt, and a backup 3B should be brought in.  I would not be opposed to that, but frankly, it seems like alot of dominoes to line up.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Jan 17, 2008 9:50 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

You're assuming there are no injuries...
I suspect that one of the reasons Piniella wants more/better depth is because of injury risk and fatigue.  I think Lou intends on regularly resting his star players, and he wants a strong versatile bench player to do that.

Additionally, we need depth in case of injury.  As the 2006 example should illustrate, you can't just have 8 regulars and no bench strength.  I expect that, one way or another, DeRosa will see 80+ starts next year even if we get Roberts.  If he doesn't, then we've been very fortunate with regard to injuries.  

by SouthernCub on Jan 17, 2008 10:09 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I agree
and think the most important thing is for Hendry to do all he can to win in the near term.  If you can improve your club (and I think Roberts does), you don't hesitate because someone else will get less AB's.

I view this the same way I do the Soriano leadoff debate; you do what is best for the team, not what is best for an individual player.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jan 17, 2008 10:40 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Exactly!
Well said; team above individuals.

If Jim doesn't think Roberts will help he wouldn't be trying to go that direction.

Same for pitching. Cubs can't keep holding prospects. That's why they're called what they're called. Sometimes it goes beyond prospects to get proven veterans. Young but still under control of the team guys (e.g. 0-3 guys).

Our grandparents used to say, "I hope the Cubs win the Series before I die". Now the teenagers are saying it.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 17, 2008 10:52 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

team vs individual
I fully agree, this isn't about just getting DeRosa at bats though.  If you look at the stats posted above, these guys are basically the same player with a few differences, most notably the number of stolen bases and switch hitting capabilities.

If we remember that the Cubs problems last year were against LHP, I am not sure that having our offense become MORE left handed is as critical as it might seem.

Again, though, I need to emphasize that to me this isn't about being pro-DeRosa, more a realization that if the Cubs are going to bring in Roberts, they should do their best to trade DeRosa, to at least partially recoup the valuable prospects that they lost.

Basically, the bevy of prospects that Hendry would need to give up for Roberts, to me, are not worth the extra 30 or so steals the Cubs would gain.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Jan 17, 2008 12:49 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

If Andy is asking for the moon
you pass on the deal.  With that said, you are going to have to give up quality to get a player like Roberts.

IMO, offensive versatility was the achilles heel of the Cubs in 07.  If they want to creat more offense with speed etc., Roberts is a much better fit than DeRosa.  I have nothing against DeRosa and he is a good player, but Roberts adds a dimension that the club desperately needs.

One other important point; the Cubs window to win with their core group of players is now, and that window won't be open forever.  I wouldn't hesitate to give up some quality to get a guy that could really solidify your lineup.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jan 17, 2008 12:56 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Versatility - i.e. speed
I have another concern.  Basically, Roberts greatest asset over DeRosa is speed.  However, the Cubs, for whatever reason, did a poor job of taking advantage of the speed they did have last year.  I know a big part of that was Soriano's injury, but overall, SBs were down for the club.

Why?  Would Roberts fall prey to the same problem?

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Jan 17, 2008 1:02 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

The window is now...
and we currently have several prospects blocked for the next several years.  Colvin is blocked by Pie, Fukudome for 4 years and Soriano for 7 years.  Patterson is blocked by the entire OF (if he's an OF) and DeRosa for two years (if he's a 2B).

In terms of pitching, Gallagher and Marshall are blocked by Marquis and Lieber this year (unless Marquis is magically traded there's only one spot next year for a starter.  And we do have depth at pitching prospects right now, albeit not in AAA/MLB.

With our window being now, it might not be as bad an idea to trade for an impact player now.  The key is identifying that impact player.

by SouthernCub on Jan 17, 2008 1:04 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Exactly...
This "hold onto prospects" mentality will not help unless they're in position to play.

Look, I like a lot of these guys but would you rather have that possibility of greatness (e.g. Santana) or Santana. To a lesser scale, would you rather have a good upside potential or a proven guy (e.g. Roberts or Bedard)?

The team as constructed today, right now, Lieber obviously included could win the division and with a little margin. Can they beat SD, LA, AZ (that one scares me) and NYM to even get to the series? I wouldn't be betting my paycheck on that.

I'm willing to give up young guys to get proven guys. Some here have Pie penciled in at CF. Really? Have they seen something this fall that I haven't? Is this kid going to live up to the 5-tool billing or will he be another Corey? Willing to bet on him? I'm not.

I got flamed for Lofton. Look at his '07 numbers. Think they'd be good for the Cubs in '08? That's the cheap fallback (no trade, he's a FA) in dealing Pie in a Bedard deal.

Hell, I'm willing to see a good portion of the future mortgaged if it means Santana.

But there are those [here] who are apparently much smarter than I in saying that cannot possibly happen. Not in a hundred years (no pun).

Our grandparents used to say, "I hope the Cubs win the Series before I die". Now the teenagers are saying it.

by blackhawk24 on Jan 17, 2008 1:15 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Colvin
is not blocked by Pie.  Pie is not in a position to block anyone yet.

Pie is getting the first shot at the CF job.  If he produces and hangs on to the job, then yes, Colvin will be blocked.  The Cubs will then have to decide between keeping Colvin or keeping Pie.  

But until Pie proves he can handle CF on an everyday basis, the position is still open for anyone from the minors.  Colvin is our insurance if Pie fails.

Stay tuned for complete coverage of BABYWATCH 2008!

by Josh77 on Jan 17, 2008 7:39 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, but at the same time...
...a trade of Marshall and Gallagher shorts your rotation depth, and it's not like we don't have someone that could sub in at second if DeRosa is needed elsewhere. We're the Cubs. We have spare second basemen. It's not exactly a position of need.

Doubly true if it takes Pie. Then, heck with depth - who do we START in center field?

And... don't say Sam Fuld. I would prefer not to have an anyeurism this morning.

I would suggest you learn to truly interrupt all stats before using any selective stats. -- cubswin

by cwyers on Jan 17, 2008 10:40 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I'm guessing you answered your
own CF question in paragraph one of your post.  If you can talk about whether he can play SS, then he probably has the coordination to play CF.

by N Oakley on Jan 17, 2008 11:18 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

...wait.
You want to trade for Roberts so that DeRosa can be our starting center fielder?!?
I would suggest you learn to truly interrupt all stats before using any selective stats. -- cubswin

by cwyers on Jan 17, 2008 11:22 AM CST to parent up   0 recs