Coffee Is For Closers

by Al Yellon on Feb 22, 2008 8:56 AM CST in Chicago Cubs News

You can still discuss the wilds of the VWR in the post below, but for anyone who wants to change the subject, let's talk closers. Who's going to get that coffee and close for the Cubs this year?

Bruce Miles sums up yesterday's live BP sessions involving Kerry Wood, Bob Howry and Carlos Marmol, the three candidates. So far, Lou Piniella is noncommital:

Piniella said a variety of factors would play into his decision. Those factors include whom the Cubs choose for middle relief.

"Look, whether, it's Kerry, whether it's Howry, whether it's Marmol, these guys are all capable of doing it," Piniella said. "We're going to try to do what's best for the team, what's best for the individual. I know Bob's had trouble early (in regular seasons), so let's see how he comes out of spring training throwing the ball."

Sounds reasonable to me. But in the Sun-Times, Gordon Wittenmyer says the math adds up to Marmol:

Marmol is the best-equipped, most qualified candidate in camp not only to win the closer job, but also to be the kind of intimidating force that reduces the ninth inning to a swing and a prayer for any opponent that trails by a run after eight.

Maybe. Greg Couch agrees, and though I'm not sure I agree with him at this point in February, he does at least make a reasonable argument for his position. But then he trots out the old "let's not depend on Kerry Wood" argument:

If Wood is the closer, when the first month is spent in cold ballparks, he is going to blow out his shoulder. How do I know that? I don't. But you watch the Cubs your whole life and you just learn to know when the ship is going to sink.

Sigh. Yeah, I know. We've all felt this way at times. But maybe now is different, Greg. And Paul Sullivan has a cogent quote from Wood summing this all up:

Asked if the battle was purely media-driven, Wood replied: "Absolutely."

Amen. Let's see how it plays out starting next Thursday. Finally, don't be surprised to see these three pitching in the fourth or fifth inning in the early spring games. Why? Because those are the innings, early on, when you are guaranteed to be facing major league hitters. In the ninth, at least in the first week or two of the spring, guys wearing #93 from the minor league camp will be hitting, and that's not the situations you'd want your closer to be facing.

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Comments

I just love...

the fact that we have THREE, count them, 1,2,3, possible candidates that can close. I cannot remember the last time the Cubs started Spring Training with three possible closers.

Does it really matter all that much who it ends up being? I agree with Kerry and Al, lets let "Spring Training" do its job and find our closer for us. I feel either way we end up with a good closer.

by nmrudge on Feb 22, 2008 9:05 AM CST reply actions

I could make a case for ALL 3

Must the guy with the best stuff is obivous. Woody has great stuff, Howry has great poise, but in my mind Marmol is the guy to beat.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer

by Hammer on Feb 22, 2008 9:09 AM CST reply actions

However...

... sometimes the more important situation is in the 7th or 8th inning. Do you really want to take Marmol out of those situations and reserve him ONLY for closing? Sometimes that would mean putting him in games that the Cubs are leading by 3 runs after 8, and using a "lesser" pitcher in the key 7th or 8th inning situations.

Careful what you wish for.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Feb 22, 2008 9:15 AM CST up reply actions

I fully agree.

BUT, name another team that has their best bullpen pitcher NOT closing. Im sure somebody will name somebody, but I can name lots of closers with less stuff that are still closing. I like the idea of the other team having little no no chance hitting our 9th inning guy.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer

by Hammer on Feb 22, 2008 9:20 AM CST up reply actions

I prefer the idea...

of getting more games to the 9th inning with the lead. It's easier to start an inning with no one on base and avoid giving up runs than it is to come in with runners in scoring position and prevent runs. That's the situation in which I want my best reliever, not the ninth.

People overvalue the 9th inning (and blown saves in that situation) because they forget about blown saves in the 6th, 7th, and 8th innings. For that reason, I want Wood and Marmol sharing the fireman duties in the 6th, 7th, and 8th. Let Howry close the door in the 9th. Marmol will get Howry more save chances than Howry would get for Marmol. Unless he proves he can't get three outs in the 9th, I'd give that job to Howry and let Marmol and Wood pitch the more important innings.

by SouthernCub on Feb 22, 2008 9:32 AM CST up reply actions

Closing Time

Just a few thoughts on closing.

It seems to me that an important factor to consider is how well a pitcher gets batters out when he comes in with baserunners already on. We usually see the closer coming in with no one out and no one on, in many ways a comparatively easy situation. The closer usually gets a fresh half inning. Although most other teams put their best reliever in the closer spot (I suppose because the closer gets the glory and good pitchers often enjoy basking in glory), I think the guys who finish out the 7th or 8th have a tougher job. Wood, it seems to me, is better suited to those 7th and 8th inning scares. Generally you're looking for a guy who will pitch to one or two batters. With Wood's history of injury, I don't know that I would encourage him to pitch to three or more batters three or four times a week. I'd prefer he come in for short work. Also, with runners on base, you'd want a guy who can strikeout the guys he faces. No pitcher is perfect and Wood will fail at times but I think his ability to strike out batters would usually keep the opponent from advancing or scoring. for those reasons I think Wood seems like a good fit for the short work in the 7th or 8th.

I don't mean to undervalue the closer's role too much. It's clearly an important role that requires a good pitcher. Still, I'd say the better of Marmol and Howry should work earlier than the 9th.

by Copter OBob on Feb 22, 2008 9:52 AM CST up reply actions

Just because a lot of teams

do that, doesn't make it the right move for what the Cubs have.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Feb 22, 2008 9:58 AM CST up reply actions

I agree

Look, I dont care how it happens I just want the team to win lots and lots of playoff games

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer

by Hammer on Feb 22, 2008 9:59 AM CST up reply actions

the indians

raffy betancourt was disgustingly good last year, stayed as the setup.

raffy perez was almost equally as disgusting, jobo still closes.

Bill James Felix Pie 2008 Projection: .283/.333/.456 16 HR 21 SB

by kylejo on Feb 22, 2008 11:38 AM CST up reply actions

That's who I thought of

Immediately in fact, and it had nothing to do with the Rafael's. Think JoBo.

Also, Detroit, except that their good relievers keep getting hurt. Atlanta last year had Wickman closing when they probably had better options. And iirc the Cubs had a guy name Dempster (sp?) or something like that closing when they had three other guys on the team who could have done the job. Their names were Wood, Howry and Marmol. Maybe you've heard of them.

I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey

by pageian on Feb 22, 2008 4:06 PM CST up reply actions

and the best part about it is....

If for some reason none of the three can do the job we can always fall back on Dempster, who is always a possibility....

You gotta believe!!!

by bolson1076 on Feb 22, 2008 9:16 AM CST up reply actions

I'm with Al

Marmol is too important to be used as a closer. I am saying that with tongue only slightly in cheek. Over the years, I've found that the real "save" situations typically occur in the 7th and 8th innings, not the 9th, and that your best reliever should be reserved for those two innings. Howry is the perfect guy for the 9th, because he won't get himself into a lot of jams. But for getting out of jams in the 7th and 8th, I like Marmol. He worked brilliantly in those situations last year, so why mess with success?

"Have Keith Moreland drop a routine fly. Give everybody two bags of peanuts and a frosty malt, And I'll be ready to die." -Steve Goodman

by danimal15 on Feb 22, 2008 9:47 AM CST up reply actions

So lets say

we acquire someone like Nathan. Im not implying Marmol is Nathan or that we will get him. Im just saying do you pick him up and let him pitch the 7th with 2 on and 1 out? Nah. Im glad Im not making the decisions

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer

by Hammer on Feb 22, 2008 9:49 AM CST up reply actions

That's a much different question...

Nathan has an established reputation and likely an ego about being a closer. Marmol is a one-year player who can be convinced that fireman is the best role for him right now.

Sure, I'd prefer to use Nathan in the 7th/8th pressure situations, as I think those generally are the more difficult outs. But unfortunately you can't take a guy who's already been the closer and ask him to go back to middle relief.

With Marmol, though, you don't have to worry about the ego because he's "unproven." He's the youngster alongside two veterans. It's a lot easier to quiet any issues (and there appear to be no issues) with the "we're going with the vet" argument.

by SouthernCub on Feb 22, 2008 10:20 AM CST up reply actions

I'll stick to what I have

been saying for the last few months - it will be Howry who gets the nod to start the year.

I sense that Piniella absolutely pulls his hair out when his closer does not throw strikes and Howry pounds the strike zone and is reliable. Also, Marmol has shown he is invaluable to come in at critical junctures to kill a rally in the 7th or 8th. To me, and I think to Piniella, that rally killing role is as important (maybe more important in some ways) than the closer role when you come in with the bases empty.

Regarding Kerry, there are just too many questions about his durability to thrust him into the closers role to start the year.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Feb 22, 2008 9:19 AM CST reply actions

I agree...

100%. Marmol in the 7th, Wood the 8th, and Howry the 9th. At least for the start of the season. I still feel there will be a closer change sometime over the course of the year.

by nmrudge on Feb 22, 2008 9:28 AM CST up reply actions

This makes sense....

... but we'll have to see how it plays out over the next five weeks.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Feb 22, 2008 9:32 AM CST up reply actions

Marmol

And there's nothing wrong with Marmol pitching the 7th and the 8th now and then. He showed he could be effective in two-inning outings last year. When a guy is throwing well, there's no reason to take him out after just an inning, particularly if he only throws 10 pitches or so.

"Have Keith Moreland drop a routine fly. Give everybody two bags of peanuts and a frosty malt, And I'll be ready to die." -Steve Goodman

by danimal15 on Feb 22, 2008 9:48 AM CST up reply actions

Agree about innings

I hate seeing a manager pull a reliever when he completes an inning but doesn't come to bat in the other half inning. It's like some arbitrary, imaginary wall that they see that makes them think they have to make a move. I'm not big on LOOGY's either, if a guy can't get more than one out or if he can only get left handers out then he probably doesn't belong in the majors. It's micromanaging to me, or maybe I just miss 10 man pitching staffs. Either way it seems like kind of a waste of a player, only getting 3 outs a week.

I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey

by pageian on Feb 22, 2008 4:14 PM CST up reply actions

I would have agreed

But lately, I've come to the conclusion that the Cubs will not trust Howry in the beginning of the year, since he has started so slowly the past couple seasons. I think they will give the job to Wood. More off days early in the year mean fewer times he would be expected to pitch 2-3 days in a row.

Looking forward to finding out for real!

Free the upper deck!

by cubzfan on Feb 22, 2008 11:47 AM CST up reply actions

Lot's of home games

in cold weather may change that though. No doubt they won't rush Wood back out there 2-3 times in a row in 40 degree weather. And I don't think they'll give the job to Marmol temporarily until Howry gets it figured out, that could undermine his confidence. Sounds like Lou wants Howry to get it figured out quick, or at least that he's aware of Howry's early season troubles. Seems like he might be hoping Howry wins the job.

I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey

by pageian on Feb 22, 2008 4:18 PM CST up reply actions

lous

on the score now listen www.670thescore.com

WhErE's My CuBs?!?!

by tbizzle83 on Feb 22, 2008 9:30 AM CST reply actions

Closer-related

There's a good chart in this month's Baseball Digest comparing all closers who posted 300 or more saves. All of them are charted by the length of each outing they pitched for a save. In other words, how many times did they get a save by pitching 0.1 inning, 0.2 innings, 1 inning, 1.1 innings - etc.

It's not that we don't already know this, but it's interesting to see in black and white how much the closer's job has changed over three decades. Closers like Billy Wagner and Trevor Hoffman have earned about 85% to 90% of their saves by pitching a single inning - no more, no less.

In contrast, only 80 of Bruce Sutter's 300 saves were of the one inning variety. He was often called in with 2 outs in the 9th to get one key out. Or he'd be brought in as early as the 6th inning to close out the game. Rollie Fingers is the champion of the marathon save - he racked up something like 19 saves of more than 3 innings. I'll post some of the stats later when I'm back home and have the chart in my hand.

"Have Keith Moreland drop a routine fly. Give everybody two bags of peanuts and a frosty malt, And I'll be ready to die." -Steve Goodman

by danimal15 on Feb 22, 2008 10:03 AM CST reply actions

Just like a real pitcher

I'm impressed by a pitcher who manages to go more than three innings to get a save; he's gone through the lineup and begins pitching the same guys again. That's a real pitcher in my book.

by Copter OBob on Feb 22, 2008 3:00 PM CST up reply actions

Fingers

He probably holds the record for 4-inning saves, with 10. Including a doozy vs. the Cubs on June 10, 1978, pitching the final four innings and allowing just one run to save a win for Gaylord Perry.

Kind of makes it simple for the manager, when you can bring in your closer to start the sixth inning!

"Have Keith Moreland drop a routine fly. Give everybody two bags of peanuts and a frosty malt, And I'll be ready to die." -Steve Goodman

by danimal15 on Feb 22, 2008 4:26 PM CST up reply actions

Bottom line here....

...if you can throw strikes and have half way decent stuff, you can be a successful closer. Look at a guy like Borowski, his stuff is average at best, but he pounds the strike zone. If you only need three outs with the bases empty, having the balls to throw strikes in vital.

When you compare this to coming into a game with a guy on 1st and 3rd with one out, you need a guy with dominating stuff to get you out with no runs. If you have that guy, it is usually the difference between going into the 9th with the lead or being behind or tied.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Feb 22, 2008 10:14 AM CST reply actions

Good post

"Have Keith Moreland drop a routine fly. Give everybody two bags of peanuts and a frosty malt, And I'll be ready to die." -Steve Goodman

by danimal15 on Feb 22, 2008 10:16 AM CST up reply actions

i agree but

one-pitch-wonder howry still scares me, at least throw a changeup every once in a while.

wood for closer, if he can go back to back, i think its a no-brainer.

Bill James Felix Pie 2008 Projection: .283/.333/.456 16 HR 21 SB

by kylejo on Feb 22, 2008 11:41 AM CST up reply actions

Valid point

and one that I thought about quite a bit watching Howry pitch last year.

First of all, the one pitch thing has worked out pretty well for Rivera. I am not saying Howry is in the same league as Rivera, but it shows what you can do if you know how to locate.

Howry, clearly does not have a lot of confidence in his chang up (is really a splitter), and he will throw it every 9-10 pitches or so. He does (like Rivera) throw different variations of his fastball, but they all do tend to be the same speed.

The thing I like about him is he hits his spots and he goes right after the hitter. To me, this is critical to be a reliable closer.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Feb 22, 2008 2:32 PM CST up reply actions

ill agree with you in saying

that howry would make a fine closer, and would make for less stressful ninth innings, but i also think that fastball is going to get hit out and blown saves will happen more on howrys watch than on woods.

8-12 in save chances last year isnt too warm and fuzzy. what was he with the sox? he blew a fair amount. if kerry cant handle the load, then give it to howry, but if kerry's capable hes my guy.

Bill James Felix Pie 2008 Projection: .283/.333/.456 16 HR 21 SB

by kylejo on Feb 22, 2008 3:19 PM CST up reply actions

I think your right...

...and I would choose a "healthy" Wood over Howry as well. Wood would be more prone to blowing a few because of walks, but I agree he has dominant stuff.

The thing that scares me about Wood is his health. I don't think Piniella wants to hand the thing to Wood, only to have him go down in May or June. I think he will play it safe at the outset (with Howry) and see how things playout.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Feb 22, 2008 4:02 PM CST up reply actions

I'm not worried about the 9th inning...

I have a hunch that Howry, Wood and Marmol will all notch saves over the course of 162 games.

In other words, it will all work itself out.

by MDBNIU on Feb 22, 2008 10:57 AM CST reply actions

Indeed...

What a luxury we have here! While most clubs can only count 2 capable bullpen aces, we can claim 3.

If you count Dempster, we have 4 capable closers... I think most of our starters are capable of getting us through the 6th inning.

Do you think that this is the reason we didn't make a play for Bedard?

An open invitation to visit Des Moines and watch the Iowa Cubs...

by IowaCubs- on Feb 22, 2008 11:05 AM CST up reply actions

You're such an optimist, Al!

"But maybe now is different..." Great to hear your positive voice!

An open invitation to visit Des Moines and watch the Iowa Cubs...

by IowaCubs- on Feb 22, 2008 10:58 AM CST reply actions

Marmol will be the closer

... by the end of spring training. Let it be known among the Earth.

by digitalbenjamin on Feb 22, 2008 11:14 AM CST reply actions

I'd expect...

Howry to begin as closer, with all 4 (including Dempster, maybe to clinch division in an extra inning game) getting at least 1 save this year.

As I noted in the diary I began the other day, Marmol has the best 'out pitch' but the darts that Howry throws are needed in the 9th.

Al & company, you're right that the 7th & 8th are more important and Wood/Marmol clearly have the demeanors to thrive in those situations.

This is quite a good situation to be in, that I'm certain most teams would die for (see, the troubles of bullpen by committee of BoSox '03).

Let the games that count begin already!

"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"

by The Ryno and I Know on Feb 22, 2008 11:50 AM CST reply actions

Ok...i would like to address the cold...

I am not really sure how Greg can corelate cold weather to Kerry Wood blowing out his shoulder. I understand the cold weather has a factor on the body, but when your body is cold and tight, you dont have a tendency to push yourself, you trust your stuff a little more (and pitchers stay warm when it is cold because they are always moving - if the cold is going to hurt anyone it would be a guy like Soriano with his leg injury). When the weather turns warm, and your body feels loose and ready to go, is when i think more problems can occur, because you never know when you can stop pushing

I think Kerry's problem early in is career was that he wanted to throw the ball, not pitch. I think he has finally learned that throwing and pitching are two different things. And a move to the pen has helped that as well.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Feb 22, 2008 12:26 PM CST reply actions

K-Rod & Percy, Rivera and Wetteland

I would like to see the Cubs follow the tried and true method that both the Angels and Yankees used and work Marmol in as the 8th inning guy for at least one season, using him in occassional closing situations to gain his confidence.

The Angels used had K-Rod, who could have been closer, but also had an established guy in Percival. They made the young guy earn his stripes, then when he was ready, they gave him the ball in the ninth. The same was true with the Yankees, who held on to Wetteland to insure Rivera had time to develop.

In both cases it was completely obvious that barring a meltdown, K-Rod and Rivera were the closers in waiting. But the teams were patient and it paid off.

I think Marmol has the stuff to be the closer, but I also think that he may not yet have the mental toughness required. I look back at his performance in the postseason as evidence that he might not have been quite ready to take the ball in the closers role.

I would just hate to see us throw him in there and have him implode. He could be a great closer for a long time if handled correctly.

In the middle of a good time, Truth gave me her icy kiss. Look around, you must be joking. All that way, all that way for this -Oysterband

by Ross on Feb 22, 2008 1:40 PM CST reply actions

Agreed

Carlos Marmol needs development time and has to earn the right to be closer. Just because I guy pitches in dominant fashion doesn't necessarily mean he is closer material. It could be that Marmol's highest and best use will be as a shutdown setup man. Who knows, maybe he can't handle the pressure of being the 9th inning guy. He could be what Octavio Dotel was several years ago. Or what Joel Zumaya in Detroit is now.

But I agree that it makes sense to follow the Percival-KRod and Wettland-Rivera model.

by MDBNIU on Feb 22, 2008 2:08 PM CST up reply actions

Howry

is such a great setup man because he doesnt allow many walks.

Marmol has the ability to strike out the side (but is going to walk some people)

Wood was ok last year but its a small sample size and he allowed some free passes as well, i think my sentimental feelings for Wood are the main reason i want him to close

Its really a nice problem to have because I see the appeal of basically ending the game if we have a lead after the 8th by using Marmol to close. But i also see the appeal of using Marmol in critical situations earlier in the game.

I would go with

7th- Wood
8th- Howry
9th- Marmol

"Just say Smith or Jones again, it dont matter, none of this matters"

by ksucubbie on Feb 22, 2008 2:05 PM CST reply actions

Good problem to have

Marmol is the Cubs closer of the future or the Cubs hope he is. I think we can all pretty much agree with that? So, why not find out now or early in the season when the pressure isn't as high, if can close?

Maybe he doesn't have the mentality that it takes to close? I personally think he does but i'd rather find out in April than September, if he's capable of closing games out.

The Cubs have a very solid Bullpen so whoever replaces Marmol's 7th inning duties, whether it'd be Wood, Howry or Wuertz, I don't think you'd lose a lot.

Lemon20Pie's 2008 PECOTA for Rich Hill: 204 IP 30 HR 75 BB 180 SO 1.35 WHIP 4.25 ERA

by lemon20pie on Feb 22, 2008 2:29 PM CST reply actions

Off the Subject -- Just a Question and Comment

I just received my copy of Wrigley Field Season Ticket this afternoon.
If any of you have received yours, turn to page 49. The caption seems to indicate that Mark DeRosa should be in the picture -- but isn't that Neil Cotts?

by ceegeewow on Feb 22, 2008 3:04 PM CST reply actions

OT: Tampa Bay Ray's new stadium

Anyone see what it's supposed to look like? I'm not positive, but I think I like it:

Lemon20Pie's 2008 PECOTA for Rich Hill: 204 IP 30 HR 75 BB 180 SO 1.35 WHIP 4.25 ERA

by lemon20pie on Feb 22, 2008 3:04 PM CST reply actions

Didn't work

Here's a link to it.

Lemon20Pie's 2008 PECOTA for Rich Hill: 204 IP 30 HR 75 BB 180 SO 1.35 WHIP 4.25 ERA

by lemon20pie on Feb 22, 2008 3:07 PM CST up reply actions

im a fan

ive heard others arent, but personally i think it looks pretty cool. on the water like that i think it looks great.

Bill James Felix Pie 2008 Projection: .283/.333/.456 16 HR 21 SB

by kylejo on Feb 22, 2008 3:21 PM CST up reply actions

Sherrill

Anyone hear Stoney talk about the Cubs trading with Baltimore for George Sherrill? The Cubs are so confident in their trio of righties. Scott Eyre as the only lefty still scares me a bit.

by smitster2008 on Feb 22, 2008 3:39 PM CST reply actions

Three choices

Maybe four if you count Dempster since his attempt to join the rotation probably won't end well for him. The sentimental choice is Wood, the conservative choice is Howry and the agressive choice is Marmol. And I suppose the foolhardy choice is Dempster, though the closer spot is overrated and he can't do as much damage there than he could in the rotation where he'd soak up 100+ more innings. I don't care for making predictions like this when we simply can't know the outcome, or at least until the competition has had a chance to succeed or fail, but if I had to rank them I'd go:

Wood
Marmol
Howry
Dempster

I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey

by pageian on Feb 22, 2008 4:00 PM CST reply actions

Interesting

Because of all 4 guys Dempster has the best save %. He may have scared us but a good percentage of the time he got the job done.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer

by Hammer on Feb 22, 2008 4:04 PM CST up reply actions

Yeah

I actually don't mind him so much in the closer spot to be honest. I think the spot is overrated, and as long as the closer doesn't have a brittle mentality, which Demp doesn't, then he should be able to get guys out. Closers are generally failed starters, which Dempster is. Smoltz went to the pen and dominated, which to me is a sign of how good he is as a starter. Demp didn't dominate but overall he was okay, which to me means that he wasn't overexposed, he wasn't asked to do too much. He can go max effort for an inning and be descent or at times outstanding, which is more than he could do in the rotation.

That said, I don't think he'd be a wise choice to close with the three other guys we have as options. I think the best reliever is best used as a fireman, 2nd best as the closer and 3rd best as the setup man (though I am contridicting myself a bit on my choices) and Dempster would not be one of the three. Basically, on this team he'd be a good long man, or mop up man.

I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey

by pageian on Feb 22, 2008 4:23 PM CST up reply actions

coffee

Coffee may be for closers, but I will steal your milkshake.

ut mallum pluvia

by drone1047 @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Feb 22, 2008 4:01 PM CST reply actions

Milkshake?

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Feb 22, 2008 4:28 PM CST up reply actions

Are you kidding me?

yikes!

by blackhawk24 on Feb 22, 2008 4:37 PM CST up reply actions

woo...

I'm sure this passes the "community standards" test, right Al?

An open invitation to visit Des Moines and watch the Iowa Cubs...

by IowaCubs- on Feb 22, 2008 4:55 PM CST up reply actions

Gritting teeth...

... I'm in a good mood today. Letting it go.

THIS time.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Feb 22, 2008 5:41 PM CST up reply actions

WOW

That's my kinda woman.

by McRipper on Feb 22, 2008 5:04 PM CST up reply actions

too much info!

n/t

Let me get back to you, will ya, Charlie? I got a guy on the other line asking about some white walls.

by JB 23 on Feb 22, 2008 8:16 PM CST up reply actions

totally not

A) That's totally not where I was headed with that. I don't see how anyone could have forseen that!

B) I'm glad to see someone's pop culture references are more out of touch than mine! That song is what, 5 years old? Lol!

ut mallum pluvia

by drone1047 @ Bleed Cubbie Blue on Feb 25, 2008 2:14 PM CST up reply actions

Too early

They haven't even played games yet.

You know you're at spring training when you see a "closer" come in during the 3rd inning; since the regulars are usually still in the game.

I'll make a better decision myself say 3/22, the last day I see a game in sunny AZ.

by blackhawk24 on Feb 22, 2008 4:28 PM CST reply actions

PUT . . . that coffee DOWN . . .

Ryan Dempster.

by hoosiercubbie on Feb 22, 2008 6:15 PM CST reply actions

Off Topic - Wrigley Season Ticket

Hey Al, I got this in the mail today. It frankly surprised me since I forgot I ordered it!!! A pleasant surprise that I look forward to reading.

There is no place like Nebraska - Go Huskers!

by sanantonecub on Feb 22, 2008 6:57 PM CST reply actions

I'm just happy...

To see a "Glengarry Glen Ross" reference. Baseball and David Mamet. Good stuff. I think Marmol is still the candidate to beat for closer, but I like the idea of Kerry Wood as late relief...

Your results may vary. reverendriggs.blogspot.com

by riggs on Feb 22, 2008 11:20 PM CST reply actions

Wood should be the closer because........

Howry is already acclamated to the setup role, and Marmol was great at taking the ball from the starting pitcher. I think that Wood will do very well with 9th inning work, especially when he gets to start the 9th inning.

by montecarlo on Feb 23, 2008 3:18 AM CST reply actions

Late to this conversation, but

I think there is a $ factor in this decision. From the pure baseball side of it, I don't think you really can go wrong. I have a preference to putting Wood in a fixed role (closer) and having Howry be able to stretch out beyond one inning (setup) and Marmol come in when things are messy and other times throw two innings regularly (fireman?). But I can't get upset about other versions. Any will work.

The factor I think the Cubs might be wise to consider is that when you add Saves to players' records, their expected pay goes up. Keeping Marmol from saving games could save the Cubs millions of dollars down the road in arbitration.

Dunn, Duncan, Lee, Bay, and now Braun... I hope the Cubs are practicing hitting to LF!

by DGU on Feb 23, 2008 7:46 PM CST reply actions