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Open Thread: Cubs vs. Angels, Friday 3/14, 3:05 CT

SCOTTSDALE, Arizona -- Heading out to Mesa soon, so just a few notes for this afternoon's game:


  • You can discuss The Trade That Shall Not Be Named in this BCB diary. Although, it was already summed up by one commenter, who said the new rumor is "total nonsense".
  • Bruce Miles grilled Lou Piniella about the recent lineup changes and got him to admit that he's still tinkering:
    Piniella did his best Thursday to say these changes aren't necessarily permanent.

    "I didn't say it was permanent yesterday," he said. "I wanted to take a look at it. I think the big thing is it gives Soriano more time to get his legs stronger. Out of the leadoff hole, you've got to be able to run. He's about 80-85 percent, coming along fine. We don't have to rush him."

  • The Cactus League is doing fine financially again this year; the Cubs are on track to possibly set a record for average attendance.

Lineups, as always courtesy Bruce Miles:

Ryan Dempster starts today for the Cubs. He will face the Angels' Ervin Santana. All of the Angels' spring games are on radio in Los Angeles this year, so you can hear it via the MLB.com Mediacenter.

MLB.com Gameday (and yes, this is the correct link. Yesterday, I put "Seattle" in there instead of "San Diego". Thankfully, someone posted the right link in the comments.

Discuss amongst yourselves.

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Why is it that Lou always tries...
...the funky fielding experiments on days the Cubs aren't on TV?

If only there was somewhere to play E-Pat, I really like the idea of him leading off more than Theriot.

by cwyers on Mar 14, 2008 12:24 PM CDT   0 recs

If only.
I'm guessing he's starting there because he's in competition with Sam Fuld for the 25th man spot on the roster.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 14, 2008 12:28 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

re: Why is it that Lou always tries...
Funny you should mention TV, because I think the game is on TV -- at least here in the Chicago area on CSN. I express doubt, however, because even though this PDF on the Cubs Web site and CSN's Web site indicate the game will be televised, the "guide" on my cable box does not have the game listed among the upcoming programs on CSN. Can anyone out there clarify?

I'm really hoping the game is televised because I happen to be "working from home" today. (And, yes, honesty compels me to always put that phrase in quotes.)

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by dat cubfan daver on Mar 14, 2008 1:02 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

my TV guide
for the Dish network says "Women's College Basketball" and then some other show between 2 and  4 pm.
Worst to First in 2007, brought to you by Lou, Sori, A-Ram and D-Lee.

by drewishdrewid on Mar 14, 2008 2:04 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

re: my TV guide
Yeah, that's what's on Comcast, too. Really sucks. Got my hopes up there for a second or two.
Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by dat cubfan daver on Mar 14, 2008 3:15 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I thought it was deja vu all over again...
...when I saw Patterson in center and leading off, and my heart stopped for a couple of seconds. Then I remembered it's Eric Patterson and that there's virtually no danger of that happening during the regular season.  

by Mike Vails Evil Twin on Mar 14, 2008 12:26 PM CDT   0 recs

Don't take this the wrong way...
...or read too much into this, but I think that Eric Patterson is probably the type of hitter that the Cubs wish Felix Pie was. He does certain kinds of things well - takes his walks, bunts well, steals bases, and puts the ball on the ground to take advantage of his speed.

Again, it's something to note, but don't put too much stock into it.

by cwyers on Mar 14, 2008 12:35 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm not really down on Patterson
It was just the shock of seeing that name in that particular line-up context.

I haven't seen enough of him to form much of an opinion, although his AAA numbers are certainly good for whatever that's worth. If he turns out to be a great player who can help the Cubs I'm all for it.

by Mike Vails Evil Twin on Mar 14, 2008 12:41 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

E-Pat doesn't hit well enough...
...to hold down any of the corners, and the jury's still out at whether or not he can play defense up the middle well enough to stick with a team. (Okay, well the jury's come back with a decision, but I'm appealing.)

It doesn't matter so much, because I don't think there's a spot for him on the team outside of maybe the 25th man on the roster.

But he's far more suited to leading off than Pie is - they've tried batting Pie leadoff a few times in spring training so far, and it mystifies me every time.

by cwyers on Mar 14, 2008 12:44 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Pie leading off
I wonder if Lou was just trying to get him a few extra ABs by batting him there. Not a bad idea if it doesn't mess him up by making him think too much at the plate.

by Mike Vails Evil Twin on Mar 14, 2008 12:48 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think Felix Pie's game...
...is very similar to Jacque Jones's. That's probably going to freak out more people than it really should - Jones is one of those players that has really been misvalued throughout his entire career. (Blame Torii Hunter).

So when I say that, I don't want people thinking that I don't like Pie, or don't like him as a hitter. But I see the Cubs, in their own way, miscasting Pie, and it bothers me.

by cwyers on Mar 14, 2008 12:57 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Pie reminds me
of Curtis Granderson actually. I think both have 30 SB potential, both are going to strike out 120-130 times, both will have trouble against LH pitchers. Both guys also have to hit around 300 to have a 350 plus OBP.

by cubsfan25 on Mar 14, 2008 3:35 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Its Spring Training...
...let him get his AB's, he needs them.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Mar 14, 2008 1:15 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree
I think Patterson (unless traded) gets called up when one of the starters gets injured and he plays the role in '08 that Fontentot played in '07, only he plays it better.  Patterson is excellent depth to have stocked in AAA.
Soriano must leadoff... to provide adequate protection for Big Z!

by DGU on Mar 14, 2008 1:11 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

"Patterson CF"
AAAHhhhh!!!  I completely freaked as well.  Very funny.
"I don't see where plate discipline becomes a tool" - Cubs Assistant GM Gary Hughes

by Jobu on Mar 14, 2008 12:52 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

patterson cf!!
aah...oh wait nevermind..
Live is boring until March 31st strolls by..

by Chanman25 on Mar 14, 2008 12:43 PM CDT   0 recs

CF -- Patterson ???
In reality, that Patterson actually did lead off ( went 0 for 3 ) for Crusty's Reds yesterday. His late inning replacement was none other than Jerry Hairston. Oh, by the way, -- Bako was the catcher.

Some things never change.

by ceegeewow on Mar 14, 2008 3:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The winter of patience....
  •  The protracted sale of the ballclub
  •  The protracted courtship of Kosuke Fukudome
  •  The protracted love affair with Brian Roberts
It's been both a satisfying and excruciating offseason.   Nothing happens quickly.  

by MDBNIU on Mar 14, 2008 12:56 PM CDT   0 recs

At this point, I agree with Raymond Chandler
"Alcohol is like love. The first kiss is magic, the second is intimate, the third is routine. After that you take the girl's clothes off."

The Cubs seem to have some problem with that last part, when it comes to Roberts.

by cwyers on Mar 14, 2008 12:59 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I Think It's Best...
...that I leave this one alone...

;-)

Jacque Jones is gone and I doubt Ivan DeJesus would mind this!

by initram on Mar 14, 2008 1:34 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Gameday link
It's not up yet...but I think your URL should have 3-14 in it rather than 3-13 if it is going to work properly

by berselius on Mar 14, 2008 1:49 PM CDT   0 recs

Thanks.
Maybe tomorrow I'll get it right!
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 14, 2008 6:25 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Why not Soto?
Does anyone know why Soto is not in the lineup?
Scheduled day off?

by Gucci on Mar 14, 2008 3:03 PM CDT   0 recs

Good start
Patterson walks.
Sori doubles (rbi)
"I am a Cubs fan, but I needed an American League team...so as a young girl, I became very interested and enamored of the Yankees." Senator Hillary Clinton

by ExNorthsider on Mar 14, 2008 3:15 PM CDT   0 recs

waitaminute
Did Dempster just have a 3 pitch inning?  

by cubsonWGN4ever on Mar 14, 2008 3:16 PM CDT   0 recs

I doubt it
I think we're getting the minimalist version of GameDay today.

by akcubfan on Mar 14, 2008 3:20 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

gameday
isnt even working anymore and im hearing impaired so no radio for me unless someone figures out how to put closed captions on radio broadcasts.  :)

My kingdom for a (relatively decent) play by play.

by cubsonWGN4ever on Mar 14, 2008 3:24 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I tuned in on the radio about half way
through the bottom of the inning.

I think it went Theriot Walk, Sori double, not sure with Lee or Ramirez but it was 2-0 Cubs after they batted.  Dome grounded into FC, Derosa and Cintron popped out.

by akcubfan on Mar 14, 2008 3:26 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

3-0 Cubs
Lee scored on Fukudome FC

by akcubfan on Mar 14, 2008 3:21 PM CDT   0 recs

Love how Dome...
...legs out those ground balls.
Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by dat cubfan daver on Mar 14, 2008 3:22 PM CDT   0 recs

Free Radio!!
I clicked to the listen live link on Gameday and instead of getting the subscription page, I'm listening to SORIANO SCORES, CUBS 2-0!!

HOORAY FOR FRIDAY!!

I was thinking about paying, too.  Just gameday was getting on my nerves.  I can't wait til all games are available on 720.

"Trapled moss on your souls; changes all you're a part; seen it all, not at all; can't defend a (Cubs fan)"- pearl jam

by section229beer on Mar 14, 2008 3:23 PM CDT   0 recs

Thanks
for the tip, I have free radio too, this is a great friday!!

by gwood on Mar 14, 2008 3:25 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

yes!
let's hope they don't catch on...

by Gucci on Mar 14, 2008 3:25 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

aren't all ST games free?
I thought that was the norm.  Sort of a little preview for what MLB gameday is (not sure why they would let you hear the terrible lag and bad audio quality as an incentive for purchase)  But I always thought it was usually free until the season started.
In the middle of difficulty, lies opportunity - Einstein

by cubbieblue86 on Mar 14, 2008 3:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I thought that, too.
But, I've tried 2-3 times in the last week and get directed to the subscription page for gameaudio and mlbtv.  

The gamedayaudio is ~$40 for the season, but that ain't worth it for me for less than a month.  
 

"Trapled moss on your souls; changes all you're a part; seen it all, not at all; can't defend a (Cubs fan)"- pearl jam

by section229beer on Mar 14, 2008 3:36 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

GamedayAudio = $15 for the season
Not $40. Here's the link so you can see for yourself.http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/subscriptions/gameday_audio.jsp?c_id=mlb
Take me out to the ballgame, take me out to the crowd...

by bluesweatergirl on Mar 14, 2008 3:44 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Thanks for the legwork...
That's better than I thought and worth it if we're scoreboard watching in september.
"Trapled moss on your souls; changes all you're a part; seen it all, not at all; can't defend a (Cubs fan)"- pearl jam

by section229beer on Mar 14, 2008 3:46 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The reason it was free today....
.. is that all the Angels games are being given away free on MLB audio. You'll have another one on Sunday.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 14, 2008 6:26 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Kotchman GB to Demp
throwing error on the throw to first.  Triple over Soriano's head by Napoli.  3-1 Cubs

by akcubfan on Mar 14, 2008 3:28 PM CDT   0 recs

Dempster
Just like old times.
4-3
"I am a Cubs fan, but I needed an American League team...so as a young girl, I became very interested and enamored of the Yankees." Senator Hillary Clinton

by ExNorthsider on Mar 14, 2008 3:31 PM CDT   0 recs

demp is definitely having a bad inning
ouch
AC 00 00 00 - BELIEVE

by mike on Mar 14, 2008 3:31 PM CDT   0 recs

HR for somebody
4-3 Angels.  Still no outs

by akcubfan on Mar 14, 2008 3:32 PM CDT   0 recs

Demp's
falling apart after his error.

by gwood on Mar 14, 2008 3:32 PM CDT   0 recs

Dusty bats Corey P LEADOFF
I mean-------------------WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer

by Hammer on Mar 14, 2008 3:33 PM CDT   0 recs

Not to sound blunt but....
WHO CARES?
"In all the categories that you pay the most attention to, except the loss column, we're doing very well" - Jim Hendry

by Jayo525 on Mar 14, 2008 3:40 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Not to be blunt
But the mans an idiot.  

Ha, I dont know why I care.  Anything that is CUB even EX-CUB i tend to follow closely.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer

by Hammer on Mar 14, 2008 3:49 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Dempster
I wonder what his velocity is.
With his lack of command, if he can't throw 90-92 consistently in any given start, he's going to get destroyed.
"I am a Cubs fan, but I needed an American League team...so as a young girl, I became very interested and enamored of the Yankees." Senator Hillary Clinton

by ExNorthsider on Mar 14, 2008 3:33 PM CDT   0 recs

Decisions...
I wonder how a bad outing will affect Dempsters' chances of making the starting rotation?

by Gucci on Mar 14, 2008 3:33 PM CDT   0 recs

If Dempster
doesn't get his act together, he's going to lose that starter spot to Marquis pretty quick.
In the middle of difficulty, lies opportunity - Einstein

by cubbieblue86 on Mar 14, 2008 3:33 PM CDT   0 recs

GOOD!!!!!
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer

by Hammer on Mar 14, 2008 3:34 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Good point
Marquis has the big salary and tends to have good stuff pre-allstar break. Pitch him for 15 starts and then trade him.

As for Dempster, I'm not really sure what to do with him. Would some other team take him as a Closer at this point? Could be a good move.

"I am a Cubs fan, but I needed an American League team...so as a young girl, I became very interested and enamored of the Yankees." Senator Hillary Clinton

by ExNorthsider on Mar 14, 2008 3:35 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I would think
one of them has to go.  Word has been lately scouts have been looking at Marquis as of late...but now it seems like it might not be so great to get us stuck into a situation with no option but Demp.
In the middle of difficulty, lies opportunity - Einstein

by cubbieblue86 on Mar 14, 2008 3:37 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Santana bunt to pitcher
FC throw to third.  Runner on first.  One out.

by akcubfan on Mar 14, 2008 3:35 PM CDT   0 recs

I was supposed to be there
But due to my upcoming operation I had to cancel my trip.  
If you read this please include my friend Heather and my friend's mom Karen in your prayers. If you want to hear more email me.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Mar 14, 2008 3:36 PM CDT   0 recs

Walk. Runners on first and second
can hear a few people booing on the radio broadcast...boy thats rough to get booed in spring training.

by akcubfan on Mar 14, 2008 3:37 PM CDT   0 recs

and now another triple
Dempster is toast
"I am a Cubs fan, but I needed an American League team...so as a young girl, I became very interested and enamored of the Yankees." Senator Hillary Clinton

by ExNorthsider on Mar 14, 2008 3:38 PM CDT   0 recs

I love toast.
i just wish i loved dempster as much.
In the middle of difficulty, lies opportunity - Einstein

by cubbieblue86 on Mar 14, 2008 3:39 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Right
A bad spring training start means he's toast.
If you read this please include my friend Heather and my friend's mom Karen in your prayers. If you want to hear more email me.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Mar 14, 2008 3:40 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Well I agree
But 6 runs in the first inning does not help
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer

by Hammer on Mar 14, 2008 3:41 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I know, i know
I'm not saying he's done because of today, but as of right now he's being outperformed in the spring by Marquis, which means he could be toast by way of being on the team...
In the middle of difficulty, lies opportunity - Einstein

by cubbieblue86 on Mar 14, 2008 3:44 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Actually Demp had a very good first inning
its the 2nd that he gave up all the runs

by akcubfan on Mar 14, 2008 3:45 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

right, but...
Marquis hasn't had any blowout innings so far this spring (as much as i've followed) last I saw his ERA was in the mid 2's
In the middle of difficulty, lies opportunity - Einstein

by cubbieblue86 on Mar 14, 2008 3:46 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

granted
his attitude is anything but stellar
In the middle of difficulty, lies opportunity - Einstein

by cubbieblue86 on Mar 14, 2008 3:47 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Last week
Last week when he pitched great were you posting he was great?

A typical 4th or 5th starter in a season will pitch well about 2/3rds of the time at best.

If you read this please include my friend Heather and my friend's mom Karen in your prayers. If you want to hear more email me.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Mar 14, 2008 3:41 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

True
I don't remember what I posted last week, but I've never been much of a Dempster fan. These Hendry reclamation projects are just that-- projects. Dempster just doesn't have very good stuff-- it's not like he's throwing bullets and just can't find the plate.
"I am a Cubs fan, but I needed an American League team...so as a young girl, I became very interested and enamored of the Yankees." Senator Hillary Clinton

by ExNorthsider on Mar 14, 2008 3:42 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Huh
With all due respect Demspter does have good 'stuff' if only he could control it.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer

by Hammer on Mar 14, 2008 3:43 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Still
He has allowed more hits than IP in his career and his k/bb ratio has never been great. His numbers don't indicate 'great stuff.'
"I am a Cubs fan, but I needed an American League team...so as a young girl, I became very interested and enamored of the Yankees." Senator Hillary Clinton

by ExNorthsider on Mar 14, 2008 3:46 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Stuff and performance are different things...
Dempster has good stuff, but terrible command.  As you've noted, he's never done well at avoiding hits, and he's never done well at avoiding walks.  He has generally done well at getting Ks (an indication of his stuff), but the hits and walks indicate he has trouble hitting his spots (an indication of poor command).

by SouthernCub on Mar 14, 2008 3:59 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Stuff v. Command
Interesting.

So does having good "stuff" mean the pitches have good movement and velocity, and good "command" means the pitcher can throw strikes on the black of the plate?

It would be interesting to gather a list of pitchers who had good "stuff" and were able to gain "command" at some point in their career. Dempster is 30 or 31 years old-- he's been trying to gain command for a decade, so it's not too promising at this point.

"I am a Cubs fan, but I needed an American League team...so as a young girl, I became very interested and enamored of the Yankees." Senator Hillary Clinton

by ExNorthsider on Mar 14, 2008 4:04 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Basically.
"Stuff" is how your pitches move, how fast they are, how they set up your other pitches, etc. "Command" is being able to locate the pitch where you want to - not necessarily throwing strikes, but most of the time that's what it means.

by cwyers on Mar 14, 2008 4:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Therefore
Greg Maddux is the man
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer

by Hammer on Mar 14, 2008 4:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Pretty much...
cwyers did a good job of defining the two.  But yeah, it is unlikely at this point that Dempster will develop good command.  He's been around the majors for far too long to assume he'll suddenly figure out command.

In terms of guys who had good stuff and were eventually able to figure it out and gain command, Randy Johnson is pretty much the poster child for that.

by SouthernCub on Mar 14, 2008 4:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

In general...
...players who develop command late tend to rely on extreme breaking pitches (like a difficult curveball, or a knuckleball), or a left-hander. Now,  you have a tendency for lefthanders to rely on breaking pitches more, so I don't know which tends to be driving this here.

by cwyers on Mar 14, 2008 4:28 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Line drive triple to rightcenter
2 runs score.  6-3 Angels

by akcubfan on Mar 14, 2008 3:38 PM CDT   0 recs