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Open Thread: Cubs vs. Royals, Sunday 3/9, 3:05 CT

Yelloncard_tiny by Al on in Game Threads

Reminder: one hour later than yesterday (and this will be the case for most, but not all, remaining spring games) due to Daylight Saving time taking effect this morning.

Bruce Miles tells us today about the starting pitching numbers game, and says the rotation is starting to take shape:

Jon Lieber started Saturday's home game against the Arizona Diamondbacks and worked 4 scoreless innings. Unless Lieber comes up injured or is totally ineffective, he's in the rotation.

That leaves the final spot between righties Ryan Dempster and Jason Marquis. If the Cubs can trade Marquis, as they'd prefer, that solves one problem. If not, somebody's going to the bullpen.

Bruce also says that Sean Marshall would likely go to Iowa (since he has options left) rather than be in the bullpen. Makes sense to me.

In another article, Bruce writes that while Jake Fox may not have a great chance to make the team, he's finishing up his college degree and developing a program for college coaches to help out diabetic athletes.

Phil Rogers' Sunday notes column includes this quote from Corey Patterson on his signing with the Reds:

"I'm one of those players who can do most of everything—play good defense, steal some bases, hit line drives in the gaps," Patterson said. "I can do all phases and I have done things well, like the baserunning and the throwing and the defense. But I'm always looking to improve, and I'm never satisfied."
Mm-hmm, Corey. Whatever you say.

Ryan Dempster will start for the Cubs. Kerry Wood, Neal Cotts, Carmen Pignatiello, Kevin Hart and Carlos Marmol will also throw for the Cubs. For KC, Brett Tomko starts and the Cubs will also face Julio Pimentel, Yasuhiko Yabuta, Leon Nunez and ex-Cub Ron Mahay. (Information from the Royals' website. C'mon, Carrie. Post this on the Cubs' website, too!)

Today's game is on TV (WGN) and on radio in both Chicago and Kansas City and at the MLB.com Mediacenter.

MLB.com Gameday

Discuss amongst yourselves.

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Uh, Corey might be...
...looking to improve ~now~, but he wasn't with us.  Still, it's hard to believe he's 28: it feels like he should be about 31-32 considering his long association with us.  And how is Dusty going to teach him about OBP when Dusty's goal is to get his players to swing more? Hmm... - TL
"Why shouldn't we believe that we're going to win the World Series?" - Ted Lilly, 1/19/2008, Daily Herald interview w/Barry Rozner

by timlacy on Mar 9, 2008 9:38 AM CDT   0 recs

i heard on the score
that the cubs might be getting coco crisp for fuld and marquis. any thoughts?

by china423 on Mar 9, 2008 9:57 AM CDT   0 recs

As
long as the Cubs aren't letting him be an everyday CF, which I don't think they will, and Coco is ok with that and won't be a cancer, I think it is a good move.

by cubswin14 on Mar 9, 2008 10:06 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

that's a lot of if's.
We already have a lot of ifs in regards to this team...
Worst to First in 2007, brought to you by Lou, Sori, A-Ram and D-Lee.

by drewishdrewid on Mar 9, 2008 10:31 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

No "If" is bigger than
Pie in CF. IF he figures out where the strike zone is. IF he learns how to take a walk.
"It's that wonderul relief that comes when they stop hitting you in the head with a hammer."

by lostinthevines on Mar 9, 2008 10:54 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'd say that
today, along with several other ST appearances, show that he's making good progress.
Worst to First in 2007, brought to you by Lou, Sori, A-Ram and D-Lee.

by drewishdrewid on Mar 9, 2008 3:55 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Marquis
hits as well, if not better than Crisp.  If Jason could play a decent CF a major problem would be solved!
And so it goes.

by Luigi on Mar 9, 2008 11:12 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

LOL!
Billy Pilgrim would be proud.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Mar 9, 2008 11:20 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm pretty sure
that Luigi was at least half-joking.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Mar 9, 2008 12:47 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

LOL
And don't forget, Marquis hits lefthanded. So that wouldn't work for a platoon with Pie anyway.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 9, 2008 12:49 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

This has got me to thinking
what an all-pitcher lineup would look like. Fielding considerations aside, of course. Also, I'm only using active pitchers. Probably those with a more extensive historical insight into the game will produce more interesting lists. So, here's mine, by lineup order:

1.) Dontrelle Willis
2.) Mike Hampton
3.) Jason Jennings
4.) Micah Owings
5.) Carlos Zambrano
6.) Jason Marquis
7.) Greg Maddux
8.) Livan Hernandez
9.) Jeff Suppan

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Mar 9, 2008 1:04 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Don't Forget
Kerry.  His bat has always had some pop.  My guess is Lilly's lifetime hitting stats aren't at all impressive (I'm not going to look them up) but he sure did look like he had a hitter's attitude last year.  He looked really mean every time he came up to bat.  He may even have intimidated a pitcher or two!
And so it goes.

by Luigi on Mar 9, 2008 3:16 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

no kidding
the point is, crisp is as good as Pie. just more expensive, older, yada yada yada

by wojo on Mar 9, 2008 1:49 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Then
there's really no point in acquiring an older, more expensive version of a player the Cubs already have.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Mar 9, 2008 1:53 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

my bad
I'll be more clear- crisp is BETTER than pie

by wojo on Mar 9, 2008 2:05 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Again...
... what is your evidence for this claim?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 9, 2008 2:06 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Clarity is not the problem.
Consistency is. crisp is as good as Pie; crisp is BETTER than pie. I trust you see that these are two different statements. 2005 Crisp is better than Pie is right now, sure, but 2006-2007 Crisp is not really an upgrade.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Mar 9, 2008 2:15 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

If only we had a time machine
Derrek Lee had a great 2005, too!

Not to mention how good Pie will be in 2009!

"Kosuke draws a walk" is music to my ears.

by cubbybear on Mar 9, 2008 4:19 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Sorry - not last year
MArquis did not hit well in 2007.
Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Mar 9, 2008 1:08 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

darn...
Ive always liked Corey Patterson.  When did he sign witht the Reds?  Its too bad he signed not only in the division, but with Dusty.  Now thats hes in Cincy, i cant really cheer for him... If hes looking to improve, he went to the wrong coach, he went to the one that messed him up to begin with.  
1st Official Al-Wanna-Be! Feel free to become an Oficial Al-Wanna-Be Today!

by LilLPLancer23 on Mar 9, 2008 10:21 AM CDT   0 recs

Dusty said...
... "Patterson's still young".

Um, Dusty? Corey will be 29 in July. That's way past "young". That's getting to be past whatever his major league peak might be. Most likely, what you see is what you get -- a .298 lifetime OBA and 135 strikeouts per 162 games.

The Reds can have him.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 9, 2008 11:48 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Lieber....
... I can't say enough how impressed I was with him yesterday. He can't pitch shutout ball like that every time of course, but nonetheless, if this is the kind of performance he can bring every fifth day, then fantastic, to state the obvious. It seemed effortless, much like Maddux on a good day.

Crisp? Meh. Even if it means unloading Marquis and his contract, I'd still rather have Jason around than Crisp. I still wish the Cubs could get Reggie Willits or Juan Rivera from the Angels, stick him in center and leave him there, but increasingly, I can't figure out who the Cubs have the Angels would want, and that includes Pie. But Crisp? If he shows up, then you know the trade with Orioles is really dead because it always seems Jay Payton, whom I would find much more preferable as a fourth outfielder and is always mentioned in "that" trade, isn't coming.

Santo Forever!

by BeerCub on Mar 9, 2008 10:40 AM CDT   0 recs

I agree.
We have plenty of OFs; package Marquis for depth in the middle infield, if the B-Rob for Gallagher, Marshall and Cedeno thing doesn't work.

That said, I'm not too anxious to get rid of any of those three. Cedeno and Fontenot provide band-aids in middle IF, and we have Fuld and Murton available for OF relief if need be.

The one thing B-Rob would bring would be a higher OBP in the 1 or 2-hole, but is he really going to be slotted there, anyway?

"It's that wonderul relief that comes when they stop hitting you in the head with a hammer."

by lostinthevines on Mar 9, 2008 11:03 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

OK I realize that I just contradicted myself;
I was thinking out loud; arguing with myself.

Carry on...

"It's that wonderul relief that comes when they stop hitting you in the head with a hammer."

by lostinthevines on Mar 9, 2008 11:04 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Why trade Marquis?
Give the guy a chance to make the rotation!!  So far, he hasn't done that bad. If he doesn't prove himself then we can talk about trade.   GEEEEZZZZ!!!
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse

by ronsanto10 on Mar 9, 2008 11:43 AM CDT   0 recs

Seriously......
.... you don't think the Braves, Cardinals, Cubs and baseball in general has seen enough of Marquis to know what he can do? Or not do?
Santo Forever!

by BeerCub on Mar 9, 2008 11:48 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Different thoughts
Lieber appears to be lightening in a bottle. If he remains healthy and pitches 31 GS the way he looked today he will generate innings and wins. So then the question is whether Dempster is the real deal also. That makes Marquis surplus and unless there is an injury the Cubs need to get something for surplus even if it is a salary dump.

The other surprise was watching Pie bat with confidence, he plays regularly the Cubs will be a much better team on the field and in the batting order. The other thing that was exciting was the idea of trying to play Fontenot at SS to see if he can in a pinch or occasion play SS. Cedeno vying for an IF-OF utility role is also exciting.

I can see the Cubs not making a trade until June or July for a 4th OF'er and going with the team they got minus Marquis.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Mar 9, 2008 12:39 PM CDT   0 recs

Lieber was good yesterday.....
BUT, AZ wasn't exactly going w/ their 'A' lineup either.

Yes, I was encouraged by his start, but lets not get too excited either.

BELIEVE!

by cubbie08 on Mar 9, 2008 1:17 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Am I the only one
that doesnt fully understand this Marshall situation.  Since he's not going to be in the rotation, ( doesnt seem like he was ever given a fair chance) why not try him out in relief as the second lefty with eyre.  Marshall has always seemed pretty poised and could probably handle the switch.  And it goes without saying that he would be better than Ohman was.

by JJDiesel21 on Mar 9, 2008 12:56 PM CDT   0 recs

Two words.
Carmen Pignatiello.

Well, more than two words. Marshall's wasted as the 2nd lefty in the pen. If he's not in the Cub rotation, he should be in the rotation at Iowa.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 9, 2008 1:06 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Agreed! Even ONE
word: "Piggy".
Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Mar 9, 2008 1:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Regarding Lieber's start yesterday
I was just as impressed as everyone else.  He pitched really well.  And while I hate to kill the optimism, we have to remember that the majority of hitters he faced aren't major league starters.  My point is, he pitched well -- but he wasn't facing quality hitters.  

by kanderber on Mar 9, 2008 1:17 PM CDT   0 recs

I like Fontenot...
a lot. But I wonder if he has the arm for SS. I am not a Cedeno fan...at all. I'd prefer to see him bundled in a trade for B-Rob. I bet Marshall is back up later in the season anyway, so it won't hurt him to go down. And I'd like to see Dempster pitch more before the Cubs move Marquis.

by teacher tom on Mar 9, 2008 1:18 PM CDT   0 recs

Fontenot barely has the arm
for 2B. I was really unimpressed with  his arm yesterday. Even the throw to nail Ojeda at the plate was high and up the line.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Mar 9, 2008 1:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Anyone else see Fontenot's
impression of Khalil Greene?  I think he heard the rumors over the winter and grew his hair out to try and fool Piniella.  Piniella's gettin' up there in age, so you never know, it might work.  I'll guess we'll know if we see Fontenot starting at SS on opening day.
"Dad gum right this games gonna be played under protest. . . I guarantee this is gonna be one protest that's upheld." --Hawk Harrelson, 6/24/07

by RynoHoF on Mar 9, 2008 1:27 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

OMG
I was wondering if anyone else had noticed this; I had to look twice!

by NWIowaCubFan on Mar 9, 2008 1:58 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't think the idea is that...
...Fontenot replaces Theriot at short. It's to make him a little more versatile for when Lou wants to do some switching around in the late innings or play some matchups. I'm not a huge fan of Fontenot's defense, but for a few innings now and again it wouldn't end the world.
I has a blog.

by cwyers on Mar 9, 2008 2:00 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Not yet.
Remember, the game is at 3:05 Central today, not 2:05.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 9, 2008 1:59 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

has the lottery for the bullpen and dugout box
seats already happened?
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie

by buckmulligan on Mar 9, 2008 2:06 PM CDT   0 recs

You are confusing two things
There is an AUCTION for the newest seats, under CBOE auction at Cubs.com - you need to come up with very serious money to even place a bid.

There are other seats going on sale next week.

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Mar 9, 2008 2:48 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Lineups
Cubs
Soriano, LF
Patterson, 2B
Hoffpauir, 1B
Ward, DH
Murton, RF
Soto, C
Cintron, 3B
Pie, CF
A. Blanco, SS
Dempster, P

Royals
DeJesus, CF
Grudzielanek, 2B
Gload, 1B
Guillen, RF
Gordon, 3B
Butler, DH
Teahen, LF
Buck, C
Pena, SS
Tomko, P

by Bruce Miles on Mar 9, 2008 2:18 PM CDT   0 recs

This is very different...
...from what Lou said yesterday during the telecast; Fontenot was supposed to be at short and Cedeno in center field. No idea if it means anything, just pointing it out.
I has a blog.

by cwyers on Mar 9, 2008 2:26 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Thanks Bruce
Just curious, can Cintron play SS and 2B also?

by cubswin14 on Mar 9, 2008 2:28 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Cintron can play all the infield positions.
Here's his gamelog. He's mostly played shortstop, but he fills in at second and third.
I has a blog.

by cwyers on Mar 9, 2008 2:34 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

woof
not exactly a thrilling lineup there.  I guess the kids need the work and the vets deserve a day off.  But what does it say that Pie stills hits no higher than 7 in that lineup?  Why wouldn't Lou at least move him up to 2 to get him some better protection and more ABs?
"All We Are Saying, Is Give Pie(ace) a Chance" -- John Lennon

by Orval Overall on Mar 9, 2008 2:33 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm guessing...
... because that's probably where he's going to be hitting when the season starts.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 9, 2008 2:35 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I thought that was 8?
n/t
"All We Are Saying, Is Give Pie(ace) a Chance" -- John Lennon

by Orval Overall on Mar 9, 2008 2:41 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

If you'll allow me to go on a short rant here...
...and I'll try and answer that question amid the idle speculation. I'm just musing outloud here, so take everything with a grain of salt.

But my gut feeling is that the Cubs as an organization are too attached to the notion of filling certain "roles" on a ballclub that I'm not really sure exist. So instead of taking what they have and seeing the best way to to make it all work, they come up with an idea of how they think things should work and try to fit the parts on hand to that notion.

The Cubs have attatched themselves to the idea that they need a left-handed hitter at the top of the order who does certain things well: put the ball in play a lot, steal bases, and be in front of the big boppers to drive in some runs. Well, when you limit your conception of what it is you need like that, you limit your options and you force yourself into a corner.

So the Cubs look at Pie and, instead of seeing him for what he is (a very good defensive player who has very nice doubles power and not a lot of plate discipline; his hitting style is very much Soriano's), they see what he isn't.

It's stupid and it's frustrating to watch at times, but thats Cubs baseball.

I has a blog.

by cwyers on Mar 9, 2008 2:45 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Re:
a left-handed hitter at the top of the order who does certain things well: put the ball in play a lot, steal bases, and be in front of the big boppers to drive in some runs

Doesn't Dome fit this bill?

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Mar 9, 2008 2:55 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You had your rant
so, you're entitled to your own speculation as we all are.

The fact is that we really do not know if Pie's "potential" will pan out.

I hope it does.

But management just wants to win now and the way they are choosing going about it under the circumstances, is at least showing some effort.

Imo, adding Brian Roberts to this team would have made the TEAM better, deeper, and speedier, which will be really an advantage in the home part of the schedule during April and May (he looks out to the snow falling outside his window now).

However, I don't think Hendry was quite prepared for dealing with a stubborn former personal injury attorney who owns a BAltimore baseball team - when he thought he was dealing with his former boss.

Without a doubt, it has screwed up Hendry's best laid plan. And between Lou and Hendry, they aren't completely sold on young Pie. Yet. We'll all see in the moths to come.

My $.02

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Mar 9, 2008 2:56 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Lou Says...
DeRo will be playing tomorrow

by berselius on Mar 9, 2008 2:47 PM CDT   0 recs

Man! I wish
there was a spot for Hoff-POWER.

1-0 Cubs. DWARD w/rbi

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Mar 9, 2008 3:15 PM CDT   0 recs

I was just going to say
why isn't Hendry trying harder to include Hoffpauer in a trade scenario?  The kid can hit, and has absolutely no place on this team.

I'd like him to get a chance and to bring us something in return.

MMMMM...Nutrisystem!

by Kinky Reggae on Mar 9, 2008 3:17 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

How do we know he isn't?
n/t
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 9, 2008 3:20 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I suppose we don't.
I just never hear anything about him being discussed.
MMMMM...Nutrisystem!

by Kinky Reggae on Mar 9, 2008 3:21 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

There is.
With an AL team. Maybe someone will trade for him.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 9, 2008 3:18 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

6-3 put out
I like Blanco's arm.
1st Official Al-Wanna-Be! Feel free to become an Oficial Al-Wanna-Be Today!

by LilLPLancer23 on Mar 9, 2008 3:19 PM CDT   0 recs

is pie
wearing #74? did i see that right?

by china423 on Mar 9, 2008 3:19 PM CDT   0 recs

Nice inning for Dempster.
n/t
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 9, 2008 3:19 PM CDT   0 recs

Why is Pie wearing #74?
Anyone?
MMMMM...Nutrisystem!

by Kinky Reggae on Mar 9, 2008 3:20 PM CDT   0 recs

ha!
as you can see I posted this at the same time. Another reason might be that somebody was supposed to send him his shirts in the mail, but the PO messed it up =)

by wojo on Mar 9, 2008 3:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I wonder
why Pie is wearing #74. I guess his other jersey was ruined in the wash.

by wojo on Mar 9, 2008 3:20 PM CDT   0 recs

I'm guessing...
... the equipment people didn't pack the #17 shirt, so he's wearing whatever they had.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 9, 2008 3:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

couple random comments
just bought mlb.tv today, so pepsi's making a big push huh.  i completely missed the ball on community projections this year but i think dempster is gonna put up some decent numbers

by lilkimmer77 on Mar 9, 2008 3:21 PM CDT   0 recs

Good pitch count
Six pitches, four strikes for Demp

by Bruce Miles on Mar 9, 2008 3:21 PM CDT   0 recs

Alex Cintron...
... just graduated from the Ronny Cedeno School of Baserunning.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 9, 2008 3:22 PM CDT   0 recs

Al--
I thought you were in Phoenix!  Or are you posting from the Surprise bleachers?
GEAUX THERIOT!

by Littlerock Rynofan on Mar 9, 2008 3:25 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

LOL
No, no laptop in the bleachers. I don't leave for AZ till Wednesday. Will be at games starting Thursday.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 9, 2008 3:27 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

So at Wrigley,
they let you bring in your laptop to the bleachers, right?
1st Official Al-Wanna-Be! Feel free to become an Oficial Al-Wanna-Be Today!

by LilLPLancer23 on Mar 9, 2008 3:35 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

dempster motion
he's doing a weird flip thing with his glove when he goes into his motion. decided he was tipping pitches last year? or maybe just adding some distraction to his motion.

just looks odd.

by billywan on Mar 9, 2008 3:22 PM CDT   0 recs

Helps him grip his splitter
So he does it most times anyway now so it's a good decoy.

by Bruce Miles on Mar 9, 2008 3:25 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

interesting
thanks.

wonder if little things like that get in hitters' heads, or if they're just trying to pick up the ball. either way, he seems to be using the whole arsenal so far today, and in a pretty nice rhythm.

of course it helps when you're playing the royals...

by billywan on Mar 9, 2008 3:33 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

At the hazards of offending folks ...
Pie's jersey is corrected to #20!  And have I been that fucking out of touch with Cubbie gossip?  I had no idea Dumpster is really going to be a starter!

So, who's the closer?  Marmol or Woodie?  Can't wait to see them all.

LRRF

GEAUX THERIOT!

by Littlerock Rynofan on Mar 9, 2008 3:24 PM CDT   0 recs

So far
so good for Dempster.

by sue369 on Mar 9, 2008 3:29 PM CDT   0 recs

WOW!
Demp is scaring me.  Do we have a number 2 starter here?  I knew he used to be solid but crap man.

THe is impressive today.  I noticed that glove flip too.

MMMMM...Nutrisystem!

by Kinky Reggae on