Today's Starting Pitchers	GS	IP	ERA	WHIP	BAA	HR	BB	K	W-L
	Jeremy Guthrie - RH	28	183.2	3.28	1.17	.235	22	51	117	10-10
	Scott Kazmir - LH	21	121.0	3.27	1.23	.219	14	52	134	9-6

Nice pitching matchup today. Ace-on-ace crime will be high in Tampa St. Pete today.

When I see the Rays in first place on August 29, I see skies of blue. And clouds of white. The bright, blessed day, the dark, sacred night. And I think to myself, "What a wonderful world."

But then I realize, "Wow. I'm going to hate the guts of this team in a year or so, too." I know some of y'all don't think the Rays can come up with a fanbase as obnoxious and despicable as "Red Sox Nation" or "Yankee Universe," I pose to you a question: ever been to Florida? Ever talk to some of these people? Yeesh.

Now, that's a soft chide. The only Rays fans I've ever talked to have been very friendly, and are deservedly enjoying this excellent season they're having. But they're going to pick up the d-bags that make Guy That Yells All Night embarrassed to wear his cap in some places.

Is it wrong of me to root for the O's this series but also just not really give a crap if they lose a few here? The Red Sox are four and a half games back and have the Pale Hose in Boston starting tonight, but anything that would make Tampa's incredible run to an AL East title in the first season they've ever been above .500 (or close to .500) would be kind of nice. We rolled over for the Yankees for years down the stretch. Why not show our former basement brethren the same courtesy?

I think this now. Of course, when Jamie Walker gets taken yard by Carlos Pena in what turns out to be the game-blowing shot, I'll be righteously furious. Or, at least, as righteously furious as I can get in late August. Orioles Magic? Feel it happen?

Another losing season. I'll be glad when you're dead, you rascal, you.

I'm sorry. I know Oscar de la Hoya has a lot of fans. And while I respect him as a fighter and as a businessman, as the years roll on and he keeps talking, I'm having trouble counting myself as one of them anymore.

What is it about Oscar that has so bugged me over the years? It's his fakeness. His fake smile. His fake words. His absolute need to be accepted by everyone that feeds said strange behavior.

If you know anything about Oscar's personal life, you know he's not the "Golden Boy" that his image-makers strived to paint him as over the years. And while dragging his name in the mud over exes, children and other personal things isn't at all my style, I'm aware that that's the guy he is out of the spotlight. He owns up to much of it, and is a man about it these days. Hey, we all make mistakes.

But, still...

There is something about Oscar that has never stopped haunting him. You can see it in his eyes when he speaks. You can hear it in his words if you listen closely enough. Any professional fighter is a brave human being. It takes balls to get in that ring. Hell, it takes balls to train to get in that ring.

But he's always been scared. Scared that he won't be loved by everyone. He's never gotten over the fact that the Mexican fanbase has never fully embraced him. He still strives for that. He tried to win their love and respect by fighting Julio Cesar Chavez, and all that did was make it worse for a great number of Mexican fight fans. To them, Chavez was a "real" Mexican fighter, born and bred in their country, and never moving from it.

Oscar, though, was nearly a gringo. A pretty boy that drove the teenage girls wild. An American of Mexican heritage -- but not quite a Mexican.

This has eaten at him for a long, long time. Listen to him talk about it. Even now, he claims that part of the reason he's fighting Manny Pacquiao is to avenge Mexican fighters like Juan Manuel Marquez, Marco Antonio Barrera and Erik Morales (among others) who have been conquered by the Filipino superstar.

The 46-year old Chavez, twice thrashed by the younger, stronger de la Hoya, doesn't think he'll ever get their respect.

"(Oscar) believes that the Mexicans are going to want this (fight with Pacquiao). To the contrary, they will (root for) Pacquiao," he said recently. He also offered to put up $5 million if Oscar would fight his son, believing that Oscar would be knocked out. I think that's a story for another day (and a crazy one, plus I have my doubts that Julio has $5 million), but it speaks to something.

Not only do the Mexican fight fans still largely either dislike Oscar or at best have lukewarm feelings about him, but Chavez to this day refuses to give Oscar any credit.

The fight is a fraud, he says. We've heard that before. And I believe that all personal feelings about the fight aside, if Oscar is doing this to get Mexican fans to cheer him on, he's barking up the wrong tree.

He's 35 years old. If they haven't taken to him yet, they're not going to. And potentially beating a man that has never been anything but respectful of the Mexican fighters with whom he's done battle isn't going to be what does the trick.

I've talked before about Oscar's need to declare every fight "personal," and some of you have said, "Well, that sells fights." Indeed it does, but let's go past business logic and really think about it, because I understand that it sells fights. It's the way he delivers his lines -- and that's what they are. They're lines. They're scripted little promos not unlike that which you'd find in professional wrestling, except delivered by someone who can't act.

He'll put on his mean mug. He'll punch a bag. "You wanna make this personal?" Punch again. "OK..." Continue with mean mug. Make sure there's some sweat above the brow.

He's corny. And he's hard to believe in.

Maybe that's why so many people have never liked Oscar, and now I'm not just talking about the Mexican fight fans. He has long received various degrees of backlash in the boxing community. Some of it is unavoidable. Hey, he's a good-looking guy. Girls are going to like him. This, for some reason, angers the less self-assured in the fan population. Some of it, though, might just be that he really is hard to believe in as a fighter.

Barrera, Chavez, Morales, the Marquez boys, Vazquez, Pacquiao, Gatti, Ward, even B-Hop. Those are guys that never really "sold" a fight. Sure, Bernard would talk his jive and get a little stupid, but that just seemed like it was him. You ever heard Bernard sound scripted? You cared about their fights because you cared about them. They were real people. They were genuine.

Oscar de la Hoya has never had that. He came into professional boxing an Olympic hero in America, all fanfare and glitz and glamour. And man, could he fight. His left hook was lethal. He had speed, he had ring awareness that went way beyond his years, he had power, he had a solid defense, he had a good chin. He was tough, boy, whether he looked like it or not. And he could knock your f'n block off, to boot.

But he's always seemed scared. Not of any fighter, but of what might happen if he fails or even if he succeeds the wrong way. What would people think? Would they like him? Would they cheer him?

Even when he's at his most innocent, he can come off as a phony. Example?

Oscar recently said, "As a promoter, we are going to open doors to young Mexicans who strive to be world champions, like Juan Manuel Marquez."

Marquez is 35, Oscar. It's enough to make you wonder if he even knows that.

I kind of hate that I genuinely just don't like Oscar. Why shouldn't I? He's done so much for boxing. He carried it for years, right on his back. Golden Boy Promotions has done some great things for the sport, too, even though they're lacking in key areas (developing young fighters, for one thing). I want to like him.

I guess I just have to bite the bullet and raise my hand along with the detractors. I believe he's a Hall of Famer. I believe he's done wonders for the world of boxing. But that's about as far as I go.

The press conference is over, the fight is confirmed, and Oscar de la Hoya is backing off of "final fight" talk, which means that his December 6 clash with pound-for-pound ruler Manny Pacquiao will not be his final fight.

I'd try to be more "reporter"-like about this and speculate what it could mean, but I think we're all big enough boys (or ladies, if there are any) to know that when a fighter suddenly stops talking about retiring, he's going to fight on.

I have to assume that if he lost to Pacquiao, he'd reconsider, because who does he fight then? He'd have lost to a little guy that he should have beaten and would have annihilated in his prime years, which would mean he's so far past those prime years that he shouldn't fight guys his own size.

Though, of course, that probably wouldn't be the plan anyway. There's talk of Ricky Hatton at Wembley Stadium again, which would be a great event. There's talk of Mayweather coming out of his fake retirement to fight Oscar next year (which will happen, if you ask me). And there's talk of Margarito (which will never happen).

As an aside, I know I bust on Yahoo! Sports columnist Kevin Iole a lot, but it's never meant to be personal. As I've said before, sometimes I totally agree with him. This is one of those times. Mr. Iole has been steadfastly against this fight since the beginning, and while I've fluttered back and forth about liking it or not, I've drawn my own conclusion that the fight is just not what I really want to see from either of them. Iole is still hard on the case, though. He won't let this one go. I dig his conviction in this instance.

The Orioles are 63-70 on this off day, 18 games out of first place. In the last ten, they're the only AL East squad with a losing record, going 3-7. The rest of the division has won six of the last ten.

The Orioles are 50-45 in night games this season, and just 13-25 in day games. Good thing we don't have a Cubs schedule.

The Orioles are 20-23 in one-run games, a massive improvement on the 13-31 mark from 2007, which was by far the worst in Major League Baseball.

Jeremy Guthrie is tied for sixth in the American League in ERA (3.28). The top ten, with W-L records thrown in, looks like this:

Cliff Lee, CLE (2.43, 19-2) ... Justin Duchscherer, OAK (2.54, 10-8) ... Roy Halladay, TOR (2.69, 16-9) ... John Lackey, LAA (2.95, 11-2) ... Armando Galarraga, DET (3.20, 12-4) ... Guthrie, BAL (3.28, 10-10) ... Felix Hernandez, SEA (3.28, 8-8) ... John Danks, CWS (3.30, 10-7) ... Ervin Santana, LAA (3.41, 13-5) ... Mike Mussina, NYY (3.45, 16-7)

Looking over those records and ERAs, I think you have to really be somewhat in awe of how good Cliff Lee has been. Halladay has thrown more innings, but Lee has been so dominant that he's managed to go 19-2 on a team that is two games under .500. He's credited for nearly one-third of their wins.

The O's have scored 5.13 runs per game, good for fourth in the American League behind Texas (5.54), Boston (5.21) and Chicago (5.17). At Camden Yards, the Birds score 5.31 runs per game, and on the road, 4.96. Last year, the team scored 4.67 runs per game, ninth in the AL.

The O's have allowed 5.14 runs per game, which is second-worst in the American League, ahead of only the deplorable Rangers (a staggering 5.99). The O's team ERA is 4.88. Last year, the Birds allowed 5.36 RPG with a 5.17 ERA, so it is an improvement. Not much one of, but an improvement.

In these respects, I think the "improvement" of this year's team is to some degree a smoke-and-mirrors act. The pitching is still God awful and that desperately needs to be rectified. No matter how many runs you score, it's tough to win when you routinely give up just as many. We know this, right? Pitching has to be considered priority No. 1 as far as any potential offseason moves go. Guthrie can't do this all by himself.

Frankly, this year's O's squad -- the competitive! team -- has had one of the worst starting rotations we've seen yet. Outside of Guthrie, they are all terrible. Look at these numbers:

And yes, this means that Daniel Cabrera still sucks, and that he's just as bad as he was last season. This "useful back-end starter" thing is not really very true. He's really, really bad.

This one truly warms my heart: Nick Markakis is fourth in the American League in on-base percentage at .403. He trails Milton Bradley (.446), Joe Mauer (.410) and J.D. Drew (.408). Markakis is fourth in the league in walks (84).

Aubrey Huff is sixth in the American League in slugging percentage (.566), fifth in OPS (.932), third in doubles (40), first in total bases (286), tied for fourth in home runs (29), sixth in RBI (94), fifth in adjusted OPS+ (143), third in runs created (107), fifth in adjusted batting runs (31), fifth in batting wins (2.9), first in extra-base hits (71), seventh in offensive win percentage (.701), and has a VORP of 53.9, by far the best on the team.

In other words, Aubrey Huff is the balls.

Brian Roberts leads the league in doubles (46), is third in triples (8), tied for tenth in walks (68), fifth in stolen bases (33), and third in times on base (226).

You know who's first in times on base? Markakis, with 240.

Melvin Mora has 97 RBI, and is having his best season since 2004, which is almost entirely thanks to a hot July and an unimaginably scorching August. Let's not forget the Melvin Mora of the first half, though. He hit .232/.300/.385. He was freaking awful. Awful, awful, awful, terrible, bad. He was so bad that they should have given up on the old fart and tried strugglin' Mike Costanzo or Scott Moore or my cat or anyone. He was hideous.

But in July he hit .311/.373/.533 with five homers, and this month he's been postively Herculean, going ape bananas at .427/.463/.781 with eight home runs.

More on Melvin: in seven games against the Tigers, Mora has hit .571/.618/1.393 with six home runs and 17 RBI. In 12 games against the Red Sox, Melvin has decided to take a nap to the tune of .111/.222/.200 with two extra-base hits (a homer and a double).

Folks that say Jay Payton has done a super duper job this season live on a different planet than I do. I respect his capability to fill in in center field with AJ out and I haven't once been truly annoyed by the dude this year as I was last year, but he's getting a lot of compliments like he's been some sort of genuine positive to the team. There are a lot of fourth/fifth outfielders that could hit .256/.300/.363. He's just as bad as he was last year, but there's been a lot less of him.

I said around the All-Star break that I thought Ramon Hernandez would bounce back in the second half because he'd been incredibly unlucky in the first half. This was no grand statement or amazing guesstimate, but he's done pretty well, hitting .288/.344/.492 since the break. I'd take those numbers out of a catcher any day. Of course I'd also prefer one that wasn't as lazy as he is behind the plate. He has also regressed back to stinking in August (.253/.292/.361).

Left-handed batters are hitting .324 with seven homers against Jamie Walker. Ummm, not cool, bro. I still love Jamie Jam Walker, but he's had a terrible season.

Since coming to the Orioles, Juan Castro has hit .214/.248/.276. He's 36 years old. He's never been any good at all. And this is the guy that wins shortstop for the season. Unbelievable.

Luke Scott has been our version of Trot Nixon, and will probably have roughly the same shelf life. He really needs a lefty-mashing platoon partner (.762 OPS v. LHP is not horrible, though). In this regard, I'll give Payton a little credit: he has bopped lefties at a .551 slugging clip. All six of his homers have come against left-handed pitchers.

Lou Montanez has been fun to watch. No numbers.

This really should be the last season for Kevin Millar as an Oriole. I say that with respect for the guy, too. It's just that his OPS has dropped every season as an Oriole -- .811 in 2006, .785 in 2007, .755 this season. He's already pretty well below standard for a first baseman, and pushing him any further as a starter would probably be a really bad idea. He does get credit for making the team fun again, and giving them some much-needed personality. And he hasn't killed us as a player or anything. But any further down the ladder, and he will. He's not getting younger.

Tip of the cap to our friends at Rays Index for this horrible photo.

Cal and Ripken Baseball joined forces with the Rays to purchase a minor league team in Vero Beach that they'll be moving to Port Charlotte.

And he put on that uniform.

Disgusting.

Mark it down, fellas (and ladies, if there are any): December 6. Vegas. Oscar de la Hoya. Manny Pacquiao.

Here we go.

ESPN is reporting that sources have the fight set and ready to go:

Oscar De La Hoya, boxing's biggest star, will announce Thursday that he will meet pound-for-pound king Manny Pacquiao on Dec. 6, two sources close to the fight told ESPN.com.

Top Rank's Bob Arum, whose company promotes Pacquiao, would not confirm a deal was in place for what would be the year's biggest fight, but he did tell ESPN.com that De La Hoya would host a media teleconference at 2 p.m. ET on Thursday to announce his opponent.

"We'll know who is he is fighting tomorrow," Arum said Wednesday from Youngstown, Ohio, where he was attending a promotional event for the Kelly Pavlik-Bernard Hopkins fight that he is co-promoting with De La Hoya's Golden Boy Promotions. "I made a commitment that I wouldn't say anything and that tomorrow there would be an announcement. I'm not allowed to make any comments. Everything will be clear on Thursday."

Golden Boy CEO Richard Schaefer would not confirm the deal, either, but sounded positive when asked about it.

"Last week the deal was 90 percent dead, but we were able to revive it. The fact that it has been so quiet is a good sign," Schaefer said from Mexico, where he was traveling on business with De La Hoya. "It's been a lot of back and forth and skillful negotiating and to try to get each side to soften their stance. If the fight was Arum vs. Schaefer, it would have been made awhile ago."

No more talk. No more speculation. Oscar-Manny is on, like it or not.

The purse split hasn't been revealed, but it wouldn't surprise me if they met halfway between their differences and settled on a 65-35 split in Oscar's favor. The weight will be 147 pounds and the fight will be contested with eight-ounce gloves, both of which were areas where Pacquiao would not budge.

This is going to be a huge fight, no matter what I think of it or anyone else thinks of it. I still don't love it as a fight and I think Oscar's going to be too big for Manny. But it's money in the bank, and Manny deserves that sort of payday. I can't dislike the fact that he's going to be paid handsomely for this fight.

With the official announcement coming tomorrow, this clears it all up. And I do much prefer Oscar-Manny as a spectacle to Oscar-Mora as a fight that I just don't give a damn about.

Let the 24/7 production begin.

Hear ye, hear ye! Ye olde Bad Left Hook Top 20 was in dire need of an update, so I put out the call to our 16 regular readers, and a few of them actually responded! In total, we had seven voters, a lot of opinions, and some borderline questionable calls. But boxing is all about borderline questionable calls, ol' friends o' mine.

Let's do it it! Let's do this! Let's play some footbowwwl.

Your Voting Squadron:

Scott Christ, Bad Left Hook
Matt Miller Bad Left Hook
Tim Starks, Ring Report
BLH Users: Option27, Brickhaus, sigidy21, BabyBull1289

1. Manny Pacquiao, Lightweight
47-3-2, 35 KO
136 points, 4 first-place votes

SC: Pacquiao has become such a phenomenon that I dare say neither you nor I have ever truly seen the like of him before. Sure he has some weaknesses -- he's beatable because of his always-watchable style, and he's not a PPV draw without an attractive opponent, so he's no Oscar. But Oscar is a much bigger man than Manny (yeah, I'm going there right now, even when I don't need to). And Oscar was American. And Oscar was an Olympic gold medalist. And Manny is a Filipino kid that rose from the streets, has fractured English to communicate globally, and yet he's become one of the three biggest STARS in the sport (with Oscar and Floyd). He's also become a phenomenal, well-rounded fighter that deserves all of his fame and the recognition as world's best boxer.

MM: Like everyone else who gives a crap about boxing, I love watching Pac fight. Nobody is more exciting, nobody more ferocious. Despite his improvements in ring management, Pac is still basically an all-offense kind of guy, and our collective boxing adrenaline highs are all the better for it, even if it still occasionally leaves him vulnerable against the likes of Juan Manuel Marquez. I don't see how anyone can possible make an argument for Pac as lower than number two right now, and I'm guesing I'm the only one in this survey ranking Joe head of him.

TS: I think Pacquiao's going to be sitting pretty here for a little while, now that he won't have some weird pseudo-threat to his status from a significantly more gigantic man in Oscar De La Hoya. I have no clue what losing to ODLH would've done for the Pac-Man's pound-for-pound fiefdom. I don't see Humberto Soto threatening it, if that's who he fights next.

Option27: Pacquiao is actually starting to become a solid boxer.

sigidy21: For me a good test for a boxer is how they manage the rise in weight and who better than Pac. His speed is still there and his killer instinct maybe lacking in his last fights but he is a more intelligent fighter now.

BabyBull1289: If he fought Marquez tomorrow, I wouldn't be picking him, but you can't argue with his results and you can't argue that he makes every one of his fights worth watching more than once. In that respect, he is miles ahead of Calzaghe. Beating a tough lightweight like David Diaz was nice. Beating a hall of fame welterweight like De La Hoya would be really nice.

Brickhaus: I don’t see a way around Manny as No. 1, unless you think Marquez was robbed.

2. Joe Calzaghe, Light Heavyweight
45-0, 32 KO
135 points, 2 first-place votes

SC: At times I wish that Ricky Hatton had been blessed with Joe Calzaghe's gifts, and that it was Hatton up here as the contender for pound-for-pond king. While the Manchurian Hatton is an easy-going, affable, likable guy with a persona that could have come from Milwaukee or Fargo just as easily as the UK, the Welsh Calzaghe has a habit of sounding and appearing very smug. If this was Hatton, no one would argue a whole lot. But Calzaghe can be off-putting. If only he was uglier and more inclined to gain 50 pounds between fights. But social commentary aside, Calzaghe is a hell of a fighter. How's that for analysis?

MM: After Pacquiao's incredible performance against Diaz, the boxing world quickly arrived at the consensus that Pac--not Joe--is the best pound-for-pound boxer in the world. Pac has the more passionate and vocal fans, and they, aided by Dan Rafael, seem to have won this argument. I say not so fast. Most of us had Joe ahead of Pac before they fought BHop and Diaz respectively, and while Pacquiao's win was certainly the more entertaining, looked at logically, was it the more impressive? 

Certainly not. What are you people thinking, seriously? Ask yourself this question: is it more impressive to emerge with a win against David Diaz or Bernard Hopkins? If you answered Diaz, you're on crack. Where was Hopkins on YOUR P4P list prior to the Calzaghe fight? OK, now where was David Diaz on your list prior to the Paquiao fight?

Sure, Diaz went down harder than Hopkins. But Hopkins NEVER looks outclassed the way Diaz was. And that's the truth of it: Diaz was not in Pacquiao's league, and his defeat, no matter how decisive, can never be estimated a more important career victory than what Joe Calzaghe achieved moving up in weight, coming to the United States, and beating Bernard Hopkins.

TS: Calzaghe's taken on a lot of top fighters over the last two years or so, and he's won every time. I wish he was fighting Kelly Pavlik instead of Roy Jones. I think if Calzaghe beat Pavlik, he'd be the main man.

Option27: He's done it for too long now not to be recognized.

sigidy21: His rise in weight plus finaly fighting over seas proved to the few remaining people he is a top talent. No-one ever looks good against hopkins so im hoping the Roy Jones jr match will be a better view of how Calzaghe is looking at light-heavy. His hand speed is good even tho they are slappy they do the job.

BabyBull1289: I put him slightly ahead of Pacquiao for a few reasons. One is the fact that I believe, like many, that Marquez beat him in their rematch. I think boxing puts way too much stock into the "0", but it is something that you can't ignore. Embarrassing Jeff Lacy and easily outpointing Kessler and BHop with two other wins mixed in is a pretty good two years of work. With Jones next and Pavlik on the horizon, Calzaghe is seeking out the big fights and is a worthy #1.

Brickhaus: Number two by default. Still has a weak resume, and there’s probably no way to rectify that at this point.

3(t). Juan Manuel Marquez, Lightweight
48-4-1, 35 KO
114 points

SC: I'm wary of keeping Marquez up this high before he fights at 135 for the first time against a very dangerous opponent in Joel Casamayor. Marquez has always had a couple of flaws. He used to not be aggressive enough. Now he might be too aggressive, given that he's a natural counter-puncher. I expect him to bring the fight to Casamayor and try to knock him out. Joel was rocked around by Michael Katsidis, and Marquez probably feels he's the type of guy that can wail on Joel. It's a really interesting fight on paper. Not pay-per-view interesting, but interesting. At the end of the day, I do not think Pacquiao is a better fighter than Marquez. I also don't think Marquez is any better than Pacquiao.

MM: He fought not one but two razor-close fights with Manny Pacquiao. Nuff said.

TS: The top three, I think, is really easy. Marquez has gotten better and more exciting of late, despite the perception some have that he's slowed down. Maybe so, but he's made some nice adjustments. I think he beat Pacquiao in their rematch this year, and that Pacquiao won the first time. If he knocks off Joel Casamayor, I vault him to the two spot. (Crosses his fingers for Pacquiao rubber match.)

Option27: I know you can make a case for him being undefeated and all but he hasn't faced anyone besides Manny that I would consider him so high like everyone else. Barrera was older when he faced him.

sigidy21: His losses to Pac only showed he was a great boxer. He was able to counter and press the action when it was needed.

BabyBull1289: I thought about being stubborn and listing him at 2 above Pacquiao. I had him winning both of their fights. That said, heading into the rematch, Marquez had to avoid the canvas and Pacquiao sent him there again. Still, this is the best technician of the sweet science in the world and I expect him to not only beat Casamayor, but to shut him out.

3(t). Kelly Pavlik, Middleweight
34-0, 30 KO
114 points

SC: Those that are starting to throw some backlash at Pavlik are, I feel, missing out on a potentially great story in boxing. Kelly has the goods. I'm not saying he'll never lose a fight; I'm not even saying there's not a fair chance he loses his next one if he gets suckered into a Bernard Hopkins fight. But Kelly Pavlik has the potential to be the guy that leads a boxing revolution in America. Finally, there'd be an American champion that is pretty damn hard to dislike, and that's important. It also has nothing to do with race; Pavlik could be an orange alien now fighting out of Youngstown and he'd be my boy. He comes to fight. He's got knockout power. He's humble. Pavlik is the future of American boxing, if we're lucky.

MM: I had a hell of a time deciding between Juan Manuel Marquez and Kelly Pavlik for my three slot. Maybe I'm a sucker for that zero in the loss column, but it seems to me that being undefeated is still worth something, especially when you are clearly not dodging anyone, as is the case with Pavlik. Juan Ma has more formiddable potential opposition than Kelly does though, and that gives him more of a chance to pass Kelly and possibly move up even further, if he can ever get that third fight against Pac.

TS: Sometimes, a drubbing like the one Pavlik put on helpless Gary Lockett does go some way toward proving a fighter's caliber. Again, I wish Calzaghe-Pavlik was happening next, but Pavlik-Hopkins will give the pride of Ohio even more opportunities to establish his class.

Option27: Pavlik is the peoples' champion.

sigidy21: He is by far the top middleweight and would proberly be top super middleweight when he moves up. I had a hard decision about putting him 3 or 2 because i think he could win a match up with Calzaghe. He has shown good boxing skills and can stand and fire when given the oppertunity.

BabyBull1289: The rematch with Taylor was a bit of a disappointment. Gary Lockett was a joke. No matter what, the Hopkins fight figures to be less than thrilling. After an incredible 2007 and with a potentially great 2009 on the horizon (Calzaghe? Abraham?), 2008 has just been all business for Pavlik, who keeps winning.

5. Israel Vazquez, Super Bantamweight
43-4, 31 KO
113 points

SC: Again, he's my favorite fighter. He's the most exciting fighter in the game today. There is no more that needs to be said about Izzy Vazquez. He's a guy you wish you could rank higher.

MM: Vazquez or Hopkins at five? Another hard choice. Do you go with the guy with an overall more impressive career, or the guy who looks better at the moment? Because a P4P list is supposed to evaluate the present, not the past, I'm going with Vazquez. He has youth and a more impressive recent string of fights on his side.

TS: If there's one guy I wish I could find a higher spot for on my list, it's Vazquez. Not just because I'm sentimental toward him. But because he is that good, as cognitively dissonant as it still seems to me for him to be here at all. I just can't locate the best spot.

Option27: Not only an unbelievable fighter but an unbelievable performer as well.

sigidy21: A fighter who brings it all for every second of every round. He can chase around a slick boxer and make him fight his fight and make every chance up close count.

BabyBull1289: A perfect blend of power, speed and boxing ability. I'd rather see him and Marquez take a break from each other, but who is going to argue if they do it a fourth time?

6. Antonio Margarito, Welterweight
37-5, 27 KO
102 points

SC: It didn't quite take so-far Fight of the Year honors, but "wow" was really the only word to describe Margarito's performance against Cotto in July. The hard-hitting, deliberate, relentless Margarito laid down one of the most grueling beatings you'll ever see, crumbling Cotto with continuing fire instead of one big air strike. By the time it was over, Margarito had reduced the very, very tough Miguel Cotto to a helpless shell of the fighter he was when the opening bell sounded throughout the arena in Vegas. With Margarito, I'm not sure how long his reign of fame lasts, but he's earned this.

MM: With his amazing and brutal victory over Cotto, Margarito emerges in my top ten for the first time ever at number eight. I still have my reservations about him--if you can last the distance against this guy, you have a reasonable chance of beating him. But his juggernaught-like endurance and nearly unstoppable pressure cover up for a lot (namely, the fact that he is fairly slow and seems not to care much about defense). But none of the elites in boxing today have a better chin than Antonio Margarito, and few are as physically imposing.

TS: Since I had Miguel Cotto ranked third before he fought Margarito, I gotta put the certifiable Mexican badass pretty high. Wins over Kermit Cintron help, as do competitive performances against Josh Clottey (although I think Margarito was on his way to losing that one before pulling out the W) and Paul Williams (would Williams be the clear-cut favorite in that fight? I think not).

Option27: Finally gets his due with the Cotto win.

sigidy21: If I judged this on chin and will he would be top by a distance. He can walk a guy down then dig in with uppercuts and hooks and won't stop throwing until the opponent moves back or drops to the deck.

BabyBull1289: I had Cotto at No. 3 before The Battle and have no problem moving Margarito all the way up. I don't know whether it was just Margarito's night or he is entering a late prime, but no one was beating Margarito that night. Margarito combines an incredible workrate with an incredible chin - a pretty deadly combination in boxing.

7. Miguel Cotto, Welterweight
32-1, 26 KO
90 points

SC: Well, we know how good Cotto is. And loss or not, he's a great fighter. But now we get to find out what he's made of. There have been some fine fighters that have failed to ever fully recover from a beating like Margarito put on Cotto. I thought Cotto was still winning the fight on the card, though obviously momentum was Tony's. He was just beaten down and out. Cotto has every ability to rebound from this and still be the fighter we know he can be. A change in the corner would be a good start.

MM: Is Cotto's career going to parallel his countryman Felix Trinidad's, as he sticks with a trainer that seems less than ideal? Cotto's gameplan against Margarito was flawed. Wither the body attack, Miguel? If he quits headhunting and goes back to plan A, he can still be the hero Puerto Rico wants him to be.

TS: Yes, Cotto was beaten definitively, and yes, I think he made some mistakes along the way against Margarito. But look at what he's done over the last few years, look at how awesome he was early against Margarito, and tell me that one loss against a fighter who presents style nightmares for him should push Cotto down too far.

Option27: Nothing he did against Tony Margarito makes him worse off.

sigidy21: He had his first pro loss and was a man about it. He made a bad choice about how to fight Margarito, but still showed he can box and any man not made of lead would have been worn out. I'm looking forward to seeing him back.

BabyBull1289: He didn't go to the body enough, but Cotto being ahead on many scorecards at the time of his demise against that monster Margarito was one of the best losing performances I have ever seen. Unfortunately, it had the look of a career changing fight. Hopefully, he can bounce back.

8. Rafael Marquez, Super Bantamweight
37-5, 33 KO
89 points

SC: You know what sucks about Rafael Marquez? He finally got as famous as he deserves to be (actually, not even close to what he DESERVES) at an advanced age. Rafael's 33 -- with the way he fights, there's not a whole lot more we're going to get to see out of him. The same probably goes for his 30-year old rival. And his brother, too, really. A lot of our best fighters are getting up there. There's due to be a massive change of the guard in the next 2-3 years.

MM: I worry about who, aside from Vazquez, he can fight to further his legacy. Still, Marquez is undoubtedly one of the best out there--and probably the most underrated of the top 10 by most casual fans.

TS: Oh how I love the Marquez brothers, snakebitten though they may be. Despite the long layoffs of both Marquez and Vazquez, somebody'd have to do something amazing to kick them out of my top 10 while they're on vaca.

Option27: The thrillogy almost ranks him up there by itself.

sigidy21: He is a boxer with good power and just came up short against Vazquez in a fight that realy had no losers since they both looked good. He is big challenge for anyone right now. Will be interesting to see his next fight and to see who it will be against.

BabyBull1289: He's a great fighter but it appears that he is headed for another fight with Vazquez. It would be great theater, but I really can't see him ever beating the more powerful Vazquez. That would be 3 losses in a row and I can't put him higher than 10th.

Brickhaus: The fact that he moved up from his natural weight to win one of three extremely close fights helps him.

9. Ivan Calderon, Junior Flyweight
31-0, 6 KO
76 points

SC: The best pure boxer in the world. Still, I have some reservations. He's this high because he deserves to be. But at his age, it won't shock me if he loses to Hugo Cazares on August 30, and I would not bet on him to beat Ulises Solis.

MM: More than any other elite boxer, Calderon faces the perpetual glass ceiling of crap competition.

TS: Calderon's like Joe Calzaghe a few years ago -- he gets by on length of reign more than anything. And the purity of his boxing ability, somewhat. If he beats Hugo Cazares again in August, I put him back in the top 10. It's not his fault he ruled over a weak division, but there are opportunities for him at 108.

Option27: One of the best 33-year old, 108-pound fighters that ever existed.

BabyBull1289: It isn't his fault his little weight class has little competition. All the guy does is win and usually in dominating fashion.

10. Bernard Hopkins, Light Heavyweight
48-5-1, 32 KO
72 points

SC: It would not shock me if Hopkins beat Pavlik, but it has to be the exact right circumstance where Pavlik just as much beats himself. I get the feeling we're about to see the definitive end of Bernard Hopkins. He ran out of gas in a bad way against Calzaghe. He is 43 years old. But in a world where boxers say one thing and do another, Hopkins' version of that is kind of nice. He said he wasn't interested in fighting young guns. But here he is about to take on Pavlik. Kudos, Hop.

MM: He is the best fighter in the world who I could care less about ever seeing box again. 

TS: It sounds crazy to have Hopkins very high (No. 4) because of how old he looked last time out, but in his last five fights, he arguably beat Calzaghe and Jermain Taylor twice and cleanly beat two other top-10 pound-for-pounders in Antonio Tarver and Winky Wright. I rank career achievement and recent quality of competition, even with some losses, very high in these charming little lists. P.S. Ring magazine has B-Hop here, too. I'm not crazy!

Option27: He fared well against Calzaghe but that's the most I guess you can hope for.

BabyBull1289: Hanging on for too long but you have to include him.

Brickhaus: He can still give lots of great fighters a tough night, but I’m not sure he can actually beat them anymore. Also, the LHW senior division is just supremely overrated.

11. Cristian Mijares, Super Flyweight
35-3-2, 14 KO
67 points

SC: A very fine fighter, a classy boxer with good skills. But I don't mind saying I think folks are a little too ready to proclaim him the hot ticket at 115. Fernando Montiel is just as good, I think. And outside of Alexander Munoz, what's this current streak of his in bare facts? Arce is a one-dimensional, very limited fighter. Franck Gorjux was a joke that made Teppei Kikui look good. Jose Navarro is an OK fighter but no one to get excited about -- though that fight did give us the great 120-108 Navarro card that should have gotten Doug Tucker banned for life. All respect to Mijares, but questions linger.

MM: Mijares is on a roll, but is he as good as the current hype?

TS: Honestly, I think a lot of people have this guy too high. Mijares has beaten, what, two formidable but limited brawlers and one muti-ran title contender? I do think he belongs in the top 10 because he's fared well in one of the three best divisions in the sport, and because I think he'd fare well against everyone in the division, but I need to see him do more before I get carried away.

Option27: This kid is so smooth, and modest.

BabyBull1289: The 115 pound division has a long list of interesting fights and I would take the emerging Mijares in any of them. Hopefully the powers that be realize that boxing fans would love to see the big matchups in this division in 2009.

Brickhaus: 115 is the best weight class nobody’s talking about.

12. Paul Williams, Welterweight
34-1, 25 KO
58 points

SC: I still don't think he can beat Margarito again. And I can't read a whole lot into his one-round win over Carlos Quintana. One-round KOs are so fluky that it's impossible to get much from them. It's impressive, yes, but hard to take seriously from an analytical standpoint. Who knows if he really felt good that night? Had Quintana pushed him again, would Paul have worn out? True, he didn't, but hey. I think it's worth considering. I would LOVE to see Margarito-Williams II, though.

MM: He beat Margarito. His only loss was avenged in a major way. With his frame and skillset, this guy has as much potential as any fighter in the world. And don't question his toughness. Proof? Review the first sentence of this paragraph.

TS: Unbelievable, the way he obliterated Carlos Quintana in one round. You can't make the argument, not that I do, that he should be ranked #1 at welterweight. You know what would settle that? Williams-Margarito II.

Option27: He beat Margarito and demolished Quintana in the rematch.  You can make a case that he's the best welterwieght actively.

sigidy21: Anyone who is as physically out of place as Williams will have a few extra advantages over few fighters in the same weight class. The first round KO of Quintana was a shocker. You can't say he learned much from his first loss as the revenge win was so fast, but helped him move up the P4P list.

BabyBull1289: That win over Margarito will now forever be his meal ticket but how many great fighters would be battered for 12 full rounds by Carlos Quintana? Even with his revenge on Quintana, this is a tough guy to judge.

13. Shane Mosley, Welterweight
44-5, 37 KO
52 points

SC: I think Shane Mosley is still a great fighter. Think. I don't know for sure. Smoking Mayorga won't show a lot. Shane is one of my favorite guys in the sport, but I'll tell you something -- he fights once a year, and I don't know how much older in boxing years he's gotten with the layoff.

MM: I scored his fight against Cotto as a draw. I'm psyched about his impending beatdown of Mayorga, but can Mosley land the big fight he needs to climb back up the ladder again? Margarito seems his best bet, and I see no reason why it can't happen soon.

TS: I hope Mosley enjoys thrashing Ricardo Mayorga. That he wants Margarito next speaks to what kind of fighter he is. Oh, and he might win. I hope Mosley-Margarito happens, even though I think Williams-Margarito II is the one that should be on deck. Bob Arum's vendetta against a Williams adviser stands between fans and one of the best fights in the sport, and he's not taking enough heat for it.

Option27: Still unbelievably gifted but I think the Cotto fight was his best ever, and he still lost.

sigidy21: Still a top welterweight, he showed grit against Cotto and will have an easy night of work with Mayorga. He still has speed and power and has become a ring veteran with the extra knowledge that only comes with experience.

BabyBull1289: The guy proved he can still box with the best against Cotto. After he dispatches Mayorga, he'll likely land another big fight (Margarito, Williams, Cotto, Pacquiao) and will be very dangerous.

Brickhaus: He was really hurt by the Cotto loss. While he’s looked pretty decent lately, his recent resume is overrated, other than the loss to Cotto, and now that Cotto doesn’t look like an indestructable force, his stock took a major hit.

14. Joan Guzman, Lightweight
28-0, 17 KO
40 points

SC: Guzman could be the best fighter on the planet if he hadn't wasted so much time. He's 32 years old now. He has been avoided by good and great fighters. Why would you want to fight this guy? He can give anyone fits. He's also sort of a jerk, so it's not like anyone ever wanted to champion his cause, either. It's sad, but when the history books come up, stories of Joan Guzman won't be told. He'll be a footnote. And I do think that's sad, because he's unbelievably talented.

TS: Beating Nate Campbell could get him near the top 10. He's got all the speed in the world, a slick style and a glossy record.

BabyBull1289: He has been inactive lately but he's incredibly skilled and I expect him to beat Campbell and be a real factor in the lightweight division.

Brickhaus: Making a living out of beating high-risk low-reward fighters and making it look easy. I do think he has flaws, and he hasn’t always fought the toughest fighters (in part because he’s been ducked by everyone and their mother), but he gets underranked by a lot of people because the guys he’s faced have a lot of losses.

15. Ricky Hatton, Junior Welterweight
44-1, 31 KO
37 points

MM: Toss up between Hatton and De La Hoya. With Hatton resolute at 140, I'll take the Hitman.

TS: Hey, I agree, Hatton looks shaky a lot. A lot. But he keeps finding ways to win, with the exception of, say, one of the best fighters of the past 15 years or so, Mr. Floyd Mayweather. The first time Hatton loses to someone below that class of fighter, he should get dropped really low on the pound-for-pound list. But barely pulling out wins over top competition leaves him treading water.

BabyBull1289: He's heading towards the twilight of his career but few fighters active today have Hatton's resume.

Brickhaus: Is looking old lately, but his resume is underrated if anything.

SC: Dollar-for-dollar, Ricky might be behind just Oscar and Floyd. As far as popularity and celebrity goes, he's up there with Oscar, Pacquiao and Floyd (who has lovers and haters, but everyone watches). I don't think, personally, he's a P4P top 20 guy anymore. Years of crash diets, tough fights, and just plain living have taken their toll. I had to look at it like this: barring a hand injury, I think Malignaggi beats Hatton. Am I sooner to think that makes Malignaggi great or makes Hatton kind of washed-up? No disrespect to Paulie, but it's the latter. I wouldn't have Paulie ranked top 40, probably. It's a weak division and Ricky's aging quickly. But my friends? There is only one Ricky Hatton.

16. Wladimir Klitschko, Heavyweight
51-3, 45 KO
21 points

SC: He's so much better than the field that it's not funny. I think he beats the crap out of Sam Peter if those two rematch, because Wlad is a better fighter now than he was then, while Peter has really done nothing new. I've said this before, and I'll say it again right now. There is no heavyweight in history I would make a prohibitive favorite against Wladimir Klitschko, today's edition. He's smart, big, strong. When he unleashes his right hand, it's devastating. And he knows how to jab all night, too. He would be a tough matchup for anyone in history.

MM: It's ironic that the smallest and the biggest men on my list share the same problem: domination over weak divisions.

TS: Seriously, there's nobody on my list that I've ranked more reluctantly, because he just looks so piss-poor all the time. But come on, doesn't the guy get credit, like Hatton or Calderon, for beating everybody in his division you put in front of him?

BabyBull1289: He's been winning and he's been active. I consider him to be the true heavyweight champion considering he has the win over Peter. That is certainly good enough to be in my Top 20.

17. Floyd Mayweather Jr., Welterweight
39-0, 25 KO
20 points

Option27: Until 2009 goes by without a fight, he'll always be on top.

SC: Option27 was the only one of us that ranked Mayweather, and I debated on how to handle that. On the one hand, he's taking up a spot that an active fighter could have, which would be Winky or Abraham or Oscar, I guess. But then I considered the right to believe that Mayweather is not freaking retired at all, and that dimes-to-donuts we see him in the ring again. If Mayweather had never uttered the words "I'm retired," I'd still have him No. 1. And sure, retirement should end your status as the P4P king, but retirement in boxing is almost never retirement.

18(t). David Haye, Heavyweight
21-1, 20 KO
17 points

TS: Dominating the cruiserweight division like he did is good enough to be in the top 20. The heavyweight experiment should be interesting, but it might be a while before he gets a chance to climb my P4P rankings.

BabyBull1289: How many heavyweights would you bet on to beat him? 1, maybe 2? This guy has been an undisputed champion of one division and has untapped potential in another. I think he is here to stay.

18(t). Jermain Taylor, Super Middleweight
27-2-1, 17 KO
17 points

SC: I love Jermain at 168. It's a division he can take over, partially because I never see Mikkel Kessler fighting Jermain. Taylor has taken criticisms over the years, but how many guys were willing to fight Hopkins twice? How many would have come right back at Pavlik after getting knocked the hell out? How many would move up to a new division by taking on Jeff Lacy? Granted, I think Lacy's half a bum, but he's a name and people think he can fight, so hey. I hope Jermain shoves that criticism right back in everyone's face. He's one of the good guys.

MM: He still has the goods. Losing to Pavlik is no shame.

20. Nate Campbell, Lightweight
32-5-1, 25 KO
16 points

SC: I really like Nate Campbell. But I don't think he beats Juan Diaz if Diaz has a decent cutman. I don't think he could beat Diaz again. I absolutely don't think he'll beat Guzman. I don't think he beats Pacquiao or Marquez. What's good, though? Those are just "I think." I also think he stands a chance against any of them. He's an underrated puncher and a tough guy with a tough mindset that knows how hard he's worked to get where he's at. Long may you run, Nate.

TS: Beating Joan Guzman could get him near the top 10. His path has been bumpier than Guzman's, but don't forget that a lot of people had his last victim, Juan Diaz, in the top 10.

Option27: Much better than Casamayor, if you ask me.

BabyBull1289: He finally got his title, with a major assist from the cut Gods. He works damn hard but I still think Diaz (and Pacquiao and Guzman and Marquez and Casamayor) beats him 8 out of 10 times.

Others Receiving Votes:

Winky Wright 15 ... Arthur Abraham 13 ... Oscar de la Hoya 12 ... Fernando Montiel 9 ... Andre Berto 6 ... Chris John 6 ... Ulises Solis 5 ... Amir Khan 4 ... Paulie Malignaggi 3 ... Chad Dawson 3 ... Mikkel Kessler 2 ... Yuriorkis Gamboa 1 ... Hozumi Hasegawa 1 ... Joel Casamayor 1.

On December 18, 2004, they signed him.

In 2005, he made 17 starts.

In 2006, he didn't play.

In 2007, he made two starts.

In 2008, he hasn't played...

...until now.

CARL PAVANO RETURNS

AND HE'S NOT HERE TO MAKE AMENDS.

	Today's Starting Pitchers	GS	IP	ERA	WHIP	BAA	HR	BB	K	W-L
	Carl Pavano - RH	0	0	-.--	-.--	---	0	0	0	0-0
	Jeremy Guthrie - RH	27	177.0	3.15	1.16	.234	20	50	110	10-9

C'maaaahn.

It's interesting that Zab Judah is looking to finally get a new trainer -- something that has been needed for years, I think -- but his father/trainer, Yoel, is just awesome.

"Zab is like Arturo Gatti at this point," said Yoel in that article, noting that Zab always comes to fight these days.

Hmmm.

Does he? And is comparing the often-gutless, excuse-maklng Judah to the no-excuses warrior Gatti a bit of a total joke, if not an outright insult to the intelligence of the fans?

1. If Zab came to fight every time, he probably should've knocked out Ryan Davis.

2. If Zab actually came to all his fights, he'd have lost to Mosley in May instead of Clottey in August.

3. Yes, it is.

If I were making a list of fighters that are still going that remind me of Gatti in any way, Judah might come in about 103rd.

BUT, the real news is that Zab will get a new trainer and Yoel will focus entirely on promoting. If Zab is ever going to become the fighter he was at one time (or at least thought to be), then a new trainer is going to be necessary. It's not that I think it'll work. Personally, I think Zab can beat fringe guys, be competitive against just about anyone, but against the top opponents? He'll fold.

The idea of Judah working with Floyd Mayweather, Sr., intrigues me because I see no way that they make it through a camp together. Floyd is an ego case; Zab is an ego case and has some trouble taking criticism. Floyd is a guy that likes to talk down to Oscar de la Hoya, most famous boxer on earth.

I'd love to see a reality show based on the Floyd Sr.-Zab camp, but that's about it. If they could gel, though, Floyd knows what to do with a guy like Judah.

In the same article, Luis Collazo says he might retire. There's a line in Tombstone, when the surviving Earps are leaving town after the death of Morgan. Wyatt stops his carriage, and says to the Cowboys, "I want you to know it's over."

Curly Bill looks up at him and responds, "Well...bye."

I went down to Wrigley Field with a couple of Cubs fans yesterday, and I thought I'd share my day with you, dear Camden Chatters.

First of all, game time was 1:20 CT, so 2:20 here in civilization. I live on the very brink of civilization in Saint Joseph, Mich., and friend #1 is in Michigan City, Ind. Friend #2 is in Valparaiso, Ind.

We also had to pick up the tickets in Sutton's Crossing in Hoffman Estates, Ill., which is the damnedest place, and a fair ways past Chicago. So here was the trip:

Traffic was awful.

Anyway, this Sutton's Crossing place. It's 120 acres of land within Hoffman Estates that is going to be some sort of big shopping center or some such. It's like a modern day version of a mining town, as if someone found silver there and now everyone is storming in to put up a business.

The traffic and the fact that we got rolling a bit later than we should have meant we missed most of the first three innings, so we saw exactly zero of the Cubs three runs. We had seats up in aisle 523, which are upper deck reserved and not bad seats at all. It's behind home plate at a slight angle, up under the broadcast booths.

What did I actually get to see? I saw Jay Bruce's homer, and then the ball that Joey Votto sent out onto Sheffield, which was then impressively chucked back from the street into the middle of the outfield. Nice arm, buddy.

I also got to see Paul Bako flail away, which was a hoot to experience live. Kerry Wood overpowered Patterson, Bako and Javier Valentin to get the save in a 3-2 Cubs win. There was no real drama, because those three weren't going to do any damned thing. My favorite part of the game was probably when the baby behind us took a wicked dump in the ninth inning and its mother did not think this was a foul enough stench to, like, get the baby away from everyone else.

We got out of our right-by-Wrigley $40 parking and then went over to Seminary and School (two streets, in fact) to park and walk around and find something to eat. We decided on the very not-busy Ian's Pizza by the Slice. We were warmly greeted and asked if we'd ever been there before, as if there was some great mystery to figure out. I'm a very polite person and realize most people don't really get humor, so I didn't say anything smart-assed. But, like, it's a pizza joint called Ian's Pizza by the Slice. Let me guess -- I order pizza by the slice?

I got a BBQ chicken and pineapple and a pepperoni/mushroom slice, and with a couple of Cherry Cokes it came to $10, which isn't bad at all. Pizza was good, but not great. Then we got to hear the workers talk jive to the other customers that came in after, such as Michael Jordan's visit on their grand opening day (this is a non-descript place in Wrigleyville, not something you'd much notice) and the fact that it was "the best pizza in the f---in' world." I'm not even sure it was the best pizza on that block.

All in all, a quality trip into Chicago, one of my very favorite cities. Those Cubs fans this year are a whole different breed. They're rocking the attitude that they're going to win.

The seventh inning stretch featured Dan Plesac, so I sort of felt shortchanged there.

So that was my O's off-day. How was yours?